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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / Weak… Sauce Open Thread: Dodgers Cave to the Bigots

Weak… Sauce Open Thread: Dodgers Cave to the Bigots

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Chris Thompson, at Defector:

The Los Angeles Dodgers this week publicly disinvited the Los Angeles Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence from participating in the team’s 2023 Pride Night, to be held at Dodger Stadium on June 16. The team originally planned to honor the activist group with something called the Community Hero Award, but after being confronted with what the team describes as “some controversy,” the Dodgers took the unusual step of announcing on Twitter that they’d removed the Sisters from “this year’s group of honorees.”…

Presumably the Dodgers had a pretty good idea who the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence were before this supposed controversy; after all, they had decided to give them a community service award. The Sisters have a history of charity and activism dating back to 1979, and the Los Angeles mission was launched in 1995. Members dress in flamboyant drag and give themselves funny, bawdy names—Sister GladAss, Sister Dana Van Iquity, Sister Betty Does—but their mission and works are straightforwardly good and necessary. The Sisters were essential activists and grassroots fundraisers of the AIDS epidemic era; in 1982 they made and distributed what was probably the first safe-sex pamphlet created by and for gay men, and member Bobbi Campbell (Sister Florence Nightmare) appeared on the seminal 1983 Newsweek cover that brought the epidemic to wider public recognition. They’ve raised millions of dollars in donations over the years for humanitarian causes, charities, and emergency grants, and helped bring attention to art projects, anti-war protests, suicide prevention efforts, homeless initiatives, and on and on.

On May 15, Senator Marco Rubio (R-State That Does Not Contain Los Angeles) publicized a letter he says he sent to MLB commissioner Rob Manfred, tattling on the Sisters for what he describes as “diabolical parodies” of Christian faith, and asking the commissioner whether he believes the Dodgers are being “inclusive and welcoming to everyone” when they honor an organization that “intentionally mocks and degrades Christians.” Rubio’s letter seemingly helped rouse fellow bigots to action, including Bill Donohue, the longtime head of the Catholic League, a group dedicated to waging right-wing culture war under the guise of fighting anti-Catholic discrimination. (“Group” is used loosely; the usual joke is that the Catholic League consists mainly of Bill Donohue’s fax machine, which is directly connected to the front page of the New York Post.)…

The intimidation campaign may have been straight out of the Reagan era, but it seems to have worked. Responding to the entirely manufactured offense of a scaly right-wing politician from the “Don’t Say Gay” state—a state located approximately 2,300 miles away—and a boomer nutbar pursuing a decades-old astroturfing campaign, the Dodgers disinvited a good and essential charity organization from participating in an event meant to celebrate the very communities they’ve worked to serve. In attempting to stave off phony controversy, the Dodgers now invite coverage (like this) of their cowardice. As we all know, you cannot have a successful Pride Night until your plans have received the approval of Marco Rubio and the Catholic League.

Nothing brings a community together like outsiders getting up in their business:

… About a third of Angelenos are Catholic, and many within the Dodgers franchise and its fandom are devout.

But outcry over the “drag nuns” began in the Midwest, with a call-in campaign led by the conservative advocacy organization CatholicVote [based in Madison, WI]. At the urging of the organization’s president, Brian Burch, followers flooded the ball club with outraged messages over plans to honor the Los Angeles Sisters with the Community Heroes Award at the team’s 10th annual Pride Night on June 16…

He went on to accuse the Sisters of “taunting the women religious who serve the poor in Southern California and around the world” — a charge the group rejects in the strongest terms…

Rather, the order draws inspiration from Catholic nuns — alongside religious sisters of many other faiths — serving the needy who are neglected by others because of their sexuality or gender expression, according to the Sisters and scholars and acolytes of the group.

“Many Sisters feel there’s a difference between what they’re doing and what drag performers do,” said Melissa M. Wilcox, a professor of religious studies at UC Riverside and author of “Queer Nuns: Religion, Activism, and Serious Parody.” “The Sisters are actually emulating nuns. They’ll say, ‘We’re nuns because we do the work that nuns do.’”

That work includes decades of charity, outreach, education and “bar ministry” in gay communities around the world. It also includes provocative monikers, such as Sister Porn Again and Sister Mary F— Poppins, as well as outlandish garb, chaotic pronouns and flip exhortations to “go forth and sin some more.

“I like to think of [the habit] as a bonfire or a lighthouse, so that light can shine out into places where there are no resources and there isn’t a strong community,” Sister Unity said…

“They’re the tricksters of the movement — they make us laugh, and laughing is powerful,” said Catholic activist Rosa Manriquez, who lives near Dodger Stadium. “I doubt there’s any nun worth her ruler and her rosary who’s upset about the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence.” …

But what could have been the ball club’s Bud Light moment transformed instead into an impassioned defense of one of the world’s most outré drag communities.

Other power players quickly got involved. The American Civil Liberties Union blasted the Dodgers on Twitter, saying it would pull out of Pride Night if the club did not reverse course. L.A. County Supervisor Lindsey Horvath vowed to do the same, while L.A. City Councilmember Eunisses Hernandez, whose district includes Dodger Stadium, condemned the move.

On Thursday, the Los Angeles LGBT Center issued an ultimatum: Readmit the Sisters or cancel Pride Night altogether. That evening, as the Dodgers lost 16-8 to the St. Louis Cardinals, the club seemed poised to reverse course.

For the Los Angeles Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, the support came as the biggest shock of all.

“We’re not used to people going to bat for drag queens,” Sister Unity said. “The reason [people did] is not because of our prominence in the community in terms of our spectacle but because of the work that we do.” …

Even a columnist at USA Today called the Dodgers’ action “a remarkably cowardly move“!

The Mayor of Anaheim ups the ante:

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    131Comments

    2. 2.

      Yutsano

      Responding to the entirely manufactured offense of a scaly right-wing politician from the “Don’t Say Gay” state

      I’m struggling to understand why it took this wonderful sentence to get me to realise that Lil Marco is indeed a lizard person.

      Reply
    3. 3.

      James E Powell

      One suspects that maybe Dodgers ownership & management are in accord with right wing crazies. Quite a few professional sports franchise owners were major donors to Trump both times.

      Reply
    4. 4.

      RaflW

      Good friends of mine are huge Dodgers fans (they live in the LA area, both work off-camera in film production). We met up in Houston last night over a fantastic seafood dinner. One topic was this. They’re pissed, and think a lot of other fans are too.

      My longtime friend said the Dodgers were screwing up the legacy of Jackie Robinson by caving in to homophobic discrimination heading into Pride season. They’re cis-het, btw. But clearly get what a cluster this is, and bad precedent giving in to a powerful majority group (Catholics) claiming “victim” status at a time when it’s obvious that LGBTQ people — especially T — are being attacked by government.

      My friend W- – was particularly adamant in calling b.s. on the religious ‘persecution’ of a majoritarian Christian group. We didn’t discuss lil’ Marco, but his performative bible-versy Catholicism is itself pretty manipulative and gross.

      Reply
    5. 5.

      Benw

      The fucking Dodgers have really shot an air ball here when a little backbone could got them a hole in one.

      Reply
    7. 7.

      Trivia Man

      Talk about Rainbow Washing… “we’ll pay lip service to inclusion but only in the most superficial way possible. And only If it’s ok with the most exclusionary groups around.”

      Reply
    9. 9.

      Anotherlurker

      I’ll bet that if Dodgers current ownership were in charge in the 1940s/1950s Jackie Robinson would have been bounced from the team at the first racist complaint

      Fucking cowards.

      Reply
    10. 10.

      NotMax

      It’s been downhill since Da Bums abandoned Brooklyn. Perhaps even since they shortened their name from Trolley Dodgers.

      Reply
    11. 11.

      bbleh

      Good on the Sisters and allies for fighting back!  Rubio and the CL are bullies and the Dodgers are being obedient seconds, and both tend to be surprised when their chosen victims fight back.  More of this!

      Reply
    12. 12.

      Edmund dantes

      I forgot who but I thought some other groups pulled out as soon as the sisters got disinvited.

      Reply
    14. 14.

      Dan B

      I knew Bobbi Campbell.  The last time he was in Seattle he gave me a big wet kiss in the middle of a busy street in broad daylight.  A character.

      Reply
    15. 15.

      Ruckus

      My father used to pay for a box at Dodger Stadium.

      If I still had one it would remain empty and I would ask for my money back.

      As a senior citizen who was born in the city of Los Angeles and whose mother was born in the same hospital and whose grand parents ALL lived within the city limits I think I have a right to be pissed at this.

      I believe that I will inform the Dodgers that I am pissed as hell at this, that I absolutely do not support them and that they suck donkey balls.

      Reply
    18. 18.

      Redshift

      @RaflW:

      and bad precedent giving in to a powerful majority group (Catholics) claiming “victim” status

      The appalling thing about the Catholic League (well, one appalling thing) is that it isn’t part of the church, it’s always been one conservative activist puffing himself up by claiming to to speak for it.

      Reply
    19. 19.

      WaterGirl

      Next time the Catholic Church is invited to participate in something, they should be disinvited because of the decades-long pedophilia scandal.

      Reply
    23. 23.

      Scout211

      Commentary by LA Times sports collumnist, Dylan Hernández

      To their credit, the Dodgers stuck out their necks when they held their first Pride Night in 2013. Pride Nights weren’t as common as they are now, and they even encountered opposition from their own players. The Dodgers nonetheless went through with the event, a decision people in the organization reflect on now with, well, pride.

      The Dodgers have since developed a reputation as one of the most gay-friendly organization in sports, counting Billie Jean King as one of their owners and Erik Braverman as part of their front office.

      So what changed? Why did the Dodgers suddenly cave to a U.S. senator who is obviously trying to distract the public from the debt-ceiling crisis? In a place where a significant number of Catholics embrace sexual diversity, why are religious extremists keeping the Dodgers from honoring a group that hosted some of the world’s first fundraisers for AIDS victims?

      The team isn’t saying.

      “We are in discussions and listening to everyone,” Kasten wrote in a text message. “But I’m afraid I can’t say more than that just yet.”

      Whatever led them to make this decision, the Dodgers look as if they want the LGBTQ+ community’s money without offering anything in return other than a special jersey that comes with a Pride Night ticket package.

      The Dodgers should know better than to listen to the bad-faith arguments of CatholicVote President Brian Burch, who called the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence a “hate group.” There’s a difference between mocking one’s longtime oppressors — even if that includes sexually charged language used by the Sisters — and inciting violence against them. Listening to Burch, you’d think the Sisters were providing religious justification for legally restricting rights of Catholics.

      “No other religion would be treated this way,” Burch wrote, as if Catholics were being systematically rounded up and sent to Guantanamo Bay.

      Pride Night remains nearly a month away. The Dodgers can reverse their decision, admit they made a mistake and honor the Sisters as was originally planned. Not everyone would be convinced of their sincerity, but the gesture would be a valuable first step in building back trust.

      Otherwise, they’d be admitting they don’t stand for anything. They wouldn’t just be neglecting their responsibilities as civic leaders. They’d be practicing bad business.

      Reply
    25. 25.

      Suzanne

      @WaterGirl:

      Next time the Catholic Church is invited to participate in something, they should be disinvited because of the decades-long pedophilia scandal. 

      I still refer to them as the Child Rapist Protection Racket.
      It wins me many friends.

      Reply
    27. 27.

      Sister Golden Bear

      This and Bud Light caving to bigots are why a lot of LGBTQ+ people are leery of rainbow washing. Corporations are eager to take our money, but quick to abandon us when it matters.

      Reply
    28. 28.

      Mallard Filmore

      @Baud: 

      I wonder if they’ll ban “controversial” religious groups during Faith Night.

      Have to check the program to see if atheists and Satanic Temple are listed.

      Reply
    29. 29.

      satby

      @Baud: nope, I’m supposed to log in to prove I’m over 18. That never happened with reddit before, but I’ll find it on a different site, thanks.

      Reply
    31. 31.

      Ruckus

      @TheOtherHank:

      Well he does know ass, he looks at it in the mirror way too many times a second. Of course what he sees and what he thinks he sees standing facing a mirror are two way different things.

      Reply
    34. 34.

      satby

      Not to defend the Church, but both of the organizations claiming to speak for it are independent PACs that also fight against Catholic theology being liberalized in any way. They absolutely don’t speak for the Church. Their ideal pope was the previous NAZI youth one.

      Reply
    36. 36.

      Baud

      @satby:

      Transcript

      Q    Mr. President, one more on the —

      Q    How do you respond to the Kremlin calling this a “colossal risk,” Mr. President?

      THE PRESIDENT:  It is for them.

      Reply
    37. 37.

      satby

      Non-reddit link. Ooops, too slow, Baud beat me.

      When asked about whether the supply of F-16s is a “colossal risk,” as Russia claims, Biden said, “It is. For them (Russians).”

      Reply
    38. 38.

      tokyokie

      My estimation of Lil Marco was already astoundingly low, but it’s now somewhere beneath the Marianas Trench. Seriously, this is how he works for his constituents? By stomping on a group of good-hearted people who happen to dress and sometimes act outrageously? What have the Sisters ever done to him or anybody in Florida? And what does his pissy tirade accomplish? Other than demonstrating that Lil Marco is a despicable coward whose penance should include an apology and a resignation from public office.

      Reply
    39. 39.

      Elizabelle

      I think a lot of Dodgers fans should attend in non-binary, or drag queen, or some kind of supportive clothing and fashion. Lipstick would be fine. Wear some of the colorful ribbons.

      Make them wonder. All the Dodgers see is green.

      Reply
    44. 44.

      dmsilev

      As noted, the Catholic League is basically just one guy with a big mouth. This is not new information; he’s been at this for years and years now. Anybody who ‘caves’ to him was likely just looking for an excuse to do whatever ‘caving’ represents anyway.Which does not speak well of the Dodgers ownership.

      The LA Times has been giving this extensive coverage since the whole mess started.

      Reply
    46. 46.

      Geminid

      @satby: Another zinger from the G7 meeting: when reporters asked President Zelenskyy if he was disappointed that Brazilian President Lula did not meet with him, he replied that Lula should be the one who’s disappointed.

      Reply
    47. 47.

      satby

      @dmsilev: Yeah, just was reading this article from yesterday:

      On Thursday, the Los Angeles LGBT Center issued an ultimatum: Readmit the Sisters or cancel Pride Night altogether. That evening, as the Dodgers lost 16-8 to the St. Louis Cardinals, the club seemed poised to reverse course…. “The population that I work with all supported the Dodgers,” she said. “Progressive Catholic organizations are allowing extremist conservative organizations to be the official voice of Catholicism, when that is not true.”

      Reply
    51. 51.

      Another Scott

      @satby: It probably has to do with things like a new-ish law in the UK. Standard.co.uk:

      Will age verification only apply to adult sites?

      No. Social media sites, such as Reddit and Twitter, which host large quantities of adult material, could also fall into scope of the law.

      Ministers said that social networks “where a considerable quantity of pornographic material is accessible” will have to conform to the same age verification rules as commercial pornography websites.

      This could leave Twitter and Reddit facing a choice of either verifying which British users are over 18 or finding a way to remove adult material from their services in the UK.

      […]

      Since the bill is such a huge and complicated piece of legislation, it is not expected to come into effect until 2023. A second reading in parliament has been predicted for April this year [2022].

      Cheers,
      Scott.

      Reply
    57. 57.

      Another Scott

      @eclare: If it’s all blurry, then your ad blocker is preventing you from seeing the popup where you can click to verify your age.

      Horse’s Mouth – Whitehouse.gov:

      THE PRESIDENT: Hey.

      Q — Mr. President. What has President Zelenskyy told you about the big counteroffensive? And maybe you can start by telling us whether it’s actually underway or not.

      And also, I’d like to ask you about the F-16s. You’ve greenlit them now. Jake Sullivan said arms and equipment go to Ukraine according to what he called the “exigencies of the conflict.” So what exigency now exists that didn’t exist that demands these planes?

      THE PRESIDENT: Well, I’ll tell you exactly when they’re going to move, exactly where they’re going to go. He told me — (laughs) — come on. God love ya. I’m going to — even if I knew precisely, you think I’m going to tell you what they’re going to do in terms of their offensive?

      Q We (inaudible) hope.

      THE PRESIDENT: Well, I hope you hope I wouldn’t do that, because that would mean it wouldn’t succeed.

      But the fact is that we did discuss privately with — with Zelen- — I did discuss with Zelenskyy how — let me put it this way: We and our NATO Allies know how many brigades they have trained, know what the status of those brigades are, and have an expectation as to what their likelihood of succeeding are.

      We don’t know that for certain. War is uncertain. War is uncertain, to state the obvious. So, and my — it will proceed. I can’t — if — even if I — I think I do know, but I’m not going to tell you because that would not be a smart thing to do either.

      So, having said that, the expectation and hope is that they will be successful in that it’ll make it clear to Russia that the cost — for example, Bakhmut: Bakhmut is a discussion about whether or not it’s been lost or whatever. And, well, the truth of the matter is the Russians have suffered over 100,000 casualties in Bakhmut. That’s hard to make up. That’s hard to make up.

      So, whether or not there is — there are troops in Bakhmut occupying — there’s not many buildings left standing in Bakhmut. It’s a pretty devastated city. But they have been able to move in a direction that they’ve been able to lock down an awful lot of the Russian forces, including the Wagner Group.

      So, with regard to the F-16s, F-16s would not have helped in that regard at all. It was unnecessary. For example — let’s take just Bakhmut, for example — would not have any — any additional added consequence.

      But what’s happened is: Since the provi- — the provision of everything from the significant missile defense systems, tanks, sophisticated tanks and the like — all the things that were of consequence in the near term in the Donbas area and where the fighting was taking place — they now have all that equipment. There’s a little bit still coming, but they have all that equipment.

      What’s going to happen, though, is if they continue to do well, they’re going to be in a situation where you’re going to have the Russians being able to stand off at a greater distance for maintaining their headquarters and other things, which are out of range of certain — of the existing capacity they have. And they have to be able to be in a position where now those fighter jets, those F-16s, make a big difference in terms of being able to deal with what is coming down the road.

      And God willing — and we don’t know this — if they’re successful and there ends up being an accommodation where there is not a ceasefire but there is a peace agreement that gets worked out, that they’ll have the capacity to have confidence in their ability to resist response by the Russians if they were to change their position.

      So that’s the essence of the difference. Was there another part of the question?

      Q No, but I have one. And that is: You do expect these F-16s to take part in this conflict?

      THE PRESIDENT: No. Not the per- — I don’t expect the F-16s to take part in the existing — let’s assume that it’s not, but let’s assume tomorrow the offensive was starting — or in a week, or two, or five, or seven, or ten. It’s not — highly unlikely they would take place in that context.

      But it will take place in the context — if they’re successful in the near term, they’re going to then continue to have to fight with the Russians, who have — have headquarters beyond where they are now a- — not able to be reached by the existing capacity that exists in their arsenal. So it’s a different need, just like the tanks weren’t needed in the beginning, but they’re needed now. And so, that’s — that’s the nature of the change.

      Q Mr. President, what assurances — what assurances do you — what assurances do you have that providing F-16s won’t escalate this war?

      THE PRESIDENT: I have a flat assurance from the — from Zelenskyy that they will not — they will not use it to go on and move into Russian geographic territory. But wherever Russian troops are within Ukraine in the area, they would be able to do that.

      Thank you all very, very much. Appreciate it.

      Q Mr. President, one more on the —

      Q How do you respond to the Kremlin calling this a “colossal risk,” Mr. President?

      THE PRESIDENT: It is for them.

      […]

      Hehe.

      Cheers,
      Scott.

      Reply
    58. 58.

      satby

      Anyhoo, so what’s the over/under on the Dodgers changing course or the event being cancelled (which would be a PR disaster)?

      Reply
    63. 63.

      eclare

      @satby:

      I have no idea, but wow, talk about horrible marketing/pr!  Allowing Marco to have a voice in what happens in LA?  Heads should roll in the Dodgers organization, this was so unnecessary.

      Reply
    69. 69.

      satby

      Ok, then I’m going OT to share that I bought a slice of cake like this from a new and incredible baker’s booth at the farmer’s market. It’s my delayed birthday cake treat (Thursday I turned 68, yes, I had a delightful day, thanks in advance). Trying to hold off eating it until at least 7:30pm and will probably fail.

      Reply
    79. 79.

      piratedan

      @eclare: it’s just another token in how people who have a LOT of money feel that their being rich means that their voices carry more weight than others, even on events that have nothing to do with them.

      That reminder that being rich is a skill, just like many others, but in context of any given moment not of any more worth than many others.I call it the Great Escape Principal, they needed people of many talents to pull of the escape, forgers, surveyors, tailors, thieves, tunnelers, distractors…. everyone was necessary.

      Reply
    81. 81.

      Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

      @Another Scott:

      @satby:

      Whatever happened to parents being responsible for what their kids do and see? This is what parental controls are for as well. All this will do is force social media companies to crack down on things the morality police deem “wrong”

      Reply
    84. 84.

      Dan B

      Trae Crowder and a couple other comedians are doing drag at a show in Knoxville.  Actually it should be called skag drag because beards and Sisters style makeup.  Maybe no wigs either.  Gotta love that man!

      Reply
    88. 88.

      eclare

      @tokyokie:

      I don’t understand the move.  This is not snark, I don’t really follow baseball, how is the move related to this issue?

      Again, no snark.

      Reply
    92. 92.

      zhena gogolia

      @satby: Mmm. I have a friend who makes a cake like that, but it’s a Siberian honey cake — it has a nutty frosting and is incredibly delicious.

      Reply
    93. 93.

      karen marie

      @Baud:  I’m old enough to remember that JFK had to swear his Catholicism would have no influence on his decision-making as president.

      How low we’ve sunk.

      Reply
    97. 97.

      Sure Lurkalot

      I can say without fact checking that the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence have done more good for people in this country than the empty soul that is Marco Rubio.

      Reply
    99. 99.

      Frankensteinbeck

      @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

      Whatever happened to parents being responsible for what their kids do and see?

      The morality police tried to use it to keep their children completely ignorant of the existence of sex, much less the existence of other lifestyles.  It keeps failing, so they’re trying to completely remove everything they don’t want their kids to accept from public view.

      Reply
    104. 104.

      satby

      @Elizabelle: Missed you, thanks!

      @Sure Lurkalot: caught up, but for how long 😉

      @zhena gogolia: Your friend must be amazing because I can’t imagine the patience required to make anything with that many layers.

      I’m catching a hint of raspberry in the chocolate icing. Yep, I caved, but could only eat half, it’s that rich.

      Reply
    106. 106.

      satby

      @karen marie: Again, those aren’t official Catholic organizations any more that the SCOTUS Handmaid’s wacky group is. All of them believe the official Catholic Church has gotten far too liberal. Which just shows how off the rails these groups are. The Westboro Baptists of Catholicism.

      Reply
    109. 109.

      UncleEbeneezer

      This bullshit is one of many reasons I’m an atheist.  F*** Marco Rubio and any Catholic person who uses their faith to bash LGBTQ people.  I hope the Dodgers make things right and honor the Sisters as intended, and if they don’t I will happily spread the word and join any protests, calls or other actions to maximize the Dodgers’ discomfort.

      Reply
    110. 110.

      Cameron

      I sorta see Scooter’s reasoning.  If Ronald Puddinghands thinks it’s Florida’s business to ship immigrants from Texas to New England, why shouldn’t he blast a local event on the other side of the country?  Boy keeps getting out of his lane like that, he’s gonna start showing up in DC in some of those sassy white boots.

      Reply
    113. 113.

      Frankensteinbeck

      @satby:

      All of them believe the official Catholic Church has gotten far too liberal.

      There is a bizarre contradiction there, where the Catholic congregation leans liberal, the American leadership is extreme right wing, and the international leadership – Pope Francis – has the stated position that if you’re worried about sex-related sins while humans still live in fear and poverty, you are part of the problem.

      Reply
    116. 116.

      Another Scott

      @Bill Arnold: Interesting, at the very end he seemed to be saying that he’s expecting the issue to end up in the courts and that they will have to decide what the 14th Amendment means.  Meaning, as I understand it, he hopes this will be the last time the Confederates can try to crash the world economy by holding the national debt captive.

      From the WH.gov transcript:

      Q Sir, is a congressional deal —

      Q — instability and division in the world?

      Q — the only option here, or are you still weighing other unilateral or executive actions?

      THE PRESIDENT: We have not come up with a unilateral action that could succeed in a matter of two weeks or three weeks. That’s the issue.

      Q So it’s up to lawmakers?

      THE PRESIDENT: So it’s up to lawmakers. But my hope and intention is: When we resolve this problem, I’d find a rationale to take it to the courts to see whether or not the 14th Amendment is, in fact, something that would be able to stop it.

      That would be a great thing. Make the courts take a stand. If they say the 14th Amendment doesn’t apply, or something similarly nonsensical, then it will light a(nother) fire under the Democrats to flip and keep the House and Senate and get rid of the stupid extra step to raise the limit (make the “Gephardt Rule” the default).

      Cheers,
      Scott.

      Reply
    118. 118.

      japa21

      @Frankensteinbeck: ​
        Less and less of the US leadership is far right wing. Pope Francis has been working, as openings become available, to put in, at worst, moderate clergy, and if possible, more liberal leaning ones.
      Also, If Francis has anything to say about it, expect to see women serving as Deacons in the not too distant future. Not full priesthood yet, but only a small step away.

      Reply
    119. 119.

      karen marie

      @satby:  Have you ever seen or heard the “official” Catholic church making any indication that these busybodies don’t speak for the church?  I sure haven’t.

      Reply
    121. 121.

      Jackie

      @UncleEbeneezer: I’m beginning to think Marco’s and other GQPs Catholicism is not the Catholic faith of Biden and his ilk. I wonder how Pope Francis would react to Marco should they meet?
      Or is there a different pope for the GQP?🤔

      Reply
    122. 122.

      karen marie

      @satby:   When I was a kid in White Plains, there was a bakery that made what we called a thousand layer cake.  I recently ran across something similar, if not identical, at Sally’s Baking Addiction.  She calls it a Smith Island Cake.  It doesn’t look too terribly difficult to make, although in the comments lots of people couldn’t squeak out the full eight layers from the batter.

      I can still taste those thousand layer cakes from my youth.  So good!

      Reply
    125. 125.

      Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

      @Another Scott:

      We have not come up with a unilateral action that could succeed in a matter of two weeks or three weeks. That’s the issue.

      Why couldn’t a few platinum coins succeed in that time? Or issuing consol bonds? Why is the 14th amendment, that has to be litigated and wouldn’t have the immediate effects the two options I mentioned, seem to be the solution that’s being focused on?

      Reply
    127. 127.

      satby

      @Jackie: Technically, it’s not; the extreme conservative PACs, especially CatholicVote, were founded to make common cause with Evangelical Protestants. But those churches, while happily using conservative Catholics to reach goals like overturning R vs W, don’t even consider Catholics Christian and espouse faith, not works as the road to salvation. Catholicism requires not just faith, but follow through in works.

      I am not a Catholic, just a recovering one that had 8 years of Catholic school training. But Biden lives the faith as I was taught.

      Reply
    129. 129.

      Cacti

      Bad form Dodgers.

      An absolute essential of west coast culture is not giving a fuck what the eastern half thinks about how you live.

      Reply
    130. 130.

      Jackie

      @satby: Thanks for giving me a thoughtful reply to my somewhat snarky post. Being that I’m agnostic about religion, your explanation actually taught me something new: I had no idea evangelicals hooked up with a rigidly conservative sect (is this correctly defined?) of Catholics and basically created their own version of religion.

      Is this the same as christian nationalism?

      Reply
    131. 131.

      Timill

      @satby:

      Yep, I caved, but could only eat half, it’s that rich.

      Kids these days and their instant gratification…

      Tim

      (who turned 68 on the 10th and is thus 8 days older than satby)

      Reply

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