In addition to the oppressive humidity, galloping fascism, swarming insects and toothy reptiles, one of the notable quirks of living in Florida is that it’s easy to lose track of what time of year it is. Our seasonal markers tend to be subtle unless they are detaching the roof from your house.
So when I read that Judge Aileen Cannon had set Trump’s trial date for August, it didn’t immediately occur to me that was two months away. Then when it did occur to me, I thought, well, she must mean August 2024. But nope, she means two months away:
I know there’s zero chance it will happen that quickly, but it’s almost like Cannon wants to get this shit over with for some reason.
PS: Coincidentally, today I received notice from the Middle District of Florida that my name was randomly drawn “for potential service on a federal jury.” Different district, but hmmmm!
Open thread!
Thinking like an insurer — cost sharing on vasectomies edition
Baud
I’m no expert, but I believe this is a pro forma order under the Speedy Trial Act and will almost certainly be delayed on motion of one or both sides.
Fraud Guy
Even if you were so lucky, you’d be shot down in voir dire so fast…
The Moar You Know
A lot of folks seem to be peeing their pants over this or for that matter any announcement by Cannon as “the fix is in!” “She’s gonna let Trump be President and then he will pardon himself and we will all end up in camps!” and of course the universal vitriol from the “Garland sold us out!” contingent.
Enough of that bullshit. He isn’t going to be president again.
Leto
Just because we’re in that season: Lawsuit alleges NC House Speaker had affair, sex with people seeking political favor
Local television station coverage.
Baud
If you were on the jury, I would believe in every god, and goddess too.
Tim C.
Agree with Baud. The first hurdle is when Trump makes a motion to dismiss, will she grant it? Simplest and easiest way to make this aspect of things go away. Doesn’t matter in terms of the other cases in New York, Georgia or DC, but if I’m reading it right, (and I am frequently wrong, so please correct me), she can just throw it all out and get TFG off the hook for these charges with zero consequences for herself.
Or does it not work like that?
I’m also assuming she’s corrupt to the core, and doesn’t feel the need to even pretend otherwise.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Me too!!!
laura
@Baud: I believe you may be correct, and yet, I’m smugly, mostly confident that the Special Prosecutor’s case is ready to proceed this August from my read of the indictment.
cope
What a coincidence: I had a letter from the Central Florida District forwarded to me here in Colorado telling me I, too, had been selected for potential federal jury duty.
I went online and sent them my new address as well as taking the option to plead my age (73) as a reason to take me off the list. Apparently anybody over the age of 70 is allowed to make that request although it may not be honored as per the website instructions.
Jay
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
Hmmm kinda of a late birthday present for me if the date holds up. I would love for his lawyers to have to come up with a defense argument in just 8 weeks when they have not come up with anything so far (and he keeps taking their arguments out and shooting them in both feet because he can’t shut up).
Anoniminous
Multiple reports Cholera has broken-out among the Russian troops in southeast Ukraine and Crimea.
What a bunch of f*****g dumb asses.
JWR
Both NBC and CBS had BREAKING 11AM news about the Hunter Biden plea deal. When asked about the House investigation, which I assume is what the “other Biden cases” thing is about, the reporter quoted Kevin McCarthy saying that he’s sure that information gleaned from the DOJ case will aid in their investigation. How, he didn’t, or more likely wouldn’t say. Shocking, I know. ;)
Jackie
How long before TIFG attacks “his judge” for setting such an unreasonable trial date?
Or does he wait until his first request for a delay is denied – or he’s given a much shorter delay than requested?
This is going to make the Fulton County projected August indictment interesting!
Roger Moore
@Tim C.:
Even if she does, I would assume the prosecution would have the right to appeal. Being that blatant would very likely get her replaced as judge. She could probably help Trump more by giving him procedural favors on lesser issues.
PaulWartenberg
It’s not Cannon who’s pushing for the speedy trial, it’s Special Counsel Smith. He’s applied for the Speedy Trial Act that allows for faster trials, considering the national security stakes involved.
Cannon may have given this a starting date in mid-August, but rest assured trump and whatever lawyers are left for him are going to appeal and delay as much as possible to push this back to 2025(!) if they can. But any overt delaying tactics allowed by Cannon would likely lead to her removal and a new judge placed (Smith can ask the appellate courts to remove her at the first sign of bias).
I figure Cannon will be on better behavior this time around because 1) her early attempt to save trump was smacked down so hard it left her public reputation in tatters and 2) the likelihood of matching court trials over these documents in DC and New Jersey would shine a spotlight on any questionable behavior she commits compared to the other judges.
Cannon IS setting the trial to be held in the Ft. Pierce area, which is Red conservative with a lot of retirees. So the jury makeup is bound to have enough registered Republicans to make trump happy.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker, up top
Memorize this answer for voir dire.
“I am not, nor have I ever been a member of the political blog called Balloon Juice.”
Absolutely and totally true since there is no official membership.
...now I try to be amused
@Roger Moore:
Is Cannon even capable of being that subtle?
Scout211
Don’t forget this part of the judge’s announcement. Link
Surly Duff
Why would Trump want his criminal trial to start in the middle of an election year? This scheduling absolutely benefits him. Either way – conviction (which would surely result in no hard time, with this judge) or acquittal – it’ll be old news by the time people get to the polls.
PaulWartenberg
@Anoniminous:
John Cole noticed it last year when the Ukrainian counter-offensive in Kharkiv exposed a lot of overrun Russian camps. He spotted the untidiness/garbage everywhere pictures and determined a massive breakdown of discipline and hygiene.
Cholera is when you fail to take care of human refuse/body waste, if I recall. Am willing to bet a lot of Russian deployments failed to build proper latrines or bathing facilities.
Tim C.
@Roger Moore: Okay, got it now. If she just dismisses without an aquittal from the Jury, the prosecution can appeal. So it would just go to a different judge and then she would have no more ability to mess with things. Good to know.
Thanks!
Jackie
New ad to start playing on Faux News and CNN today – plus other target- specific regions:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6bdNJOwZslk
schrodingers_cat
@WaterGirl: Sounds like the RSS, the paramilitary organization modeled after similar organizations Nazis and fascists that PM Modi is a member of, that also does not maintain membership rolls.
Omnes Omnibus
@Scout211: This is all normal. People cannot freak out at every motion and every order in this case or there will be an epidemic of nervous breakdowns.
PaulWartenberg
@WaterGirl:
On the bad side, Betty has to go camp out in Ft. Pierce.
JoyceH
@cope:
Last year I got a summons to jury duty in the federal court in Richmond. Might have been interesting, but! But the court systems had rescinded previous rules requiring masking and vaccinations. I was vaccinated, but thought sitting for days in a room potentially crowded with unmasked anti-vaxxers would be pushing it, so I had my cardiologist fill out a medical exemption.
Edmund dantes
This will never start on 24th. The getting his lawyers the right security clearances is going to take its own time. The vetting there should be interesting if done properly.
Matt McIrvin
@Omnes Omnibus: The thing is, if Cannon wants to shitcan this case without possibility of appeal, what she has to do right now is act totally normal. So it’s not possible to tell anything from anything she does.
Embir
I have a contrarian point of view to those who say it will be delayed past the election. I think the smarter play here is a speedy trial, guilty ruling (they have him dead to rights), and Judge Cannon sentencing him to 5 hours of community service.* This is a much better way of diffusing this for the right than having it hang over everything. They can easily brush it away saying it was a nothing burger, “if it was serious he’d be in jail, just paperwork stuff.” Most people will forget about it and it won’t be a central part of the election argument. If it is delayed it will still be a live issue in the election – and it is truly serious enough that it could make a difference.
*Community service to be fulfilled by allowing 4 young people to play a round of golf or throwing towels at hurricane victims.
Betty Cracker
@PaulWartenberg: It’s possible St. Lucie County is less Trumpy than Miami-Dade now, given the recent hard right swing of FL Latinos. IIRC, it’s more reddish-purple than red.
mrmoshpotato
Congrats! Having to show up for jury duty is the best!
Ken
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m also wondering if we’ll get a freak-out no matter what Cannon does. Like, if she had set the date for March of 2024, would people be freaking because it’s unnecessary delay?
Perhaps it’s the same principle that says that no matter what Garland does, it’s not right, and he must be secretly undermining the DOJ’s cases against Trump for reasons.
Omnes Omnibus
@Matt McIrvin: Okay, have at it. I guess I should just avoid these threads. My bad.
Jay
@PaulWartenberg:
It’s the dam the Ruzzians blew and the flooding. It’s washed tons of shit* downstream, contaminated groundwater, is killing the Black Sea, thousands of dolphins and other endangered species, and will soon enter the Med.
*shit, chemicals, oils, etc.
The Ruzzians have been drinking the dirty water.
sdhays
@Matt McIrvin: Let’s cross that bridge when we come to it.
sdhays
DUPLICATE DELETED
WaterGirl
@Scout211: It strikes me that she is trying to appear to be moving things along, while actually saying – pssst you can delay this really easily, and here’s what you should say.
I loathe her.
SiubhanDuinne
@PaulWartenberg:
“Port Fierce,” we used to call it.
sdhays
@Jay: You mean the Russians didn’t think things through before attacking something?
Omnes Omnibus
@Embir: Prosecutors can appeal that kind of sentence.
dmsilev
@Omnes Omnibus:
People *will* freak out at every motion. Guaranteed. So, I guess, bring on the epidemic.
randy khan
@Embir:
I refuse, personally, to game this case out because I am convinced there will be many twists and turns. But I think that a sentence like that would be appealable by the prosecution, as it obviously would be well outside the bounds of the usual sentences in Espionage Act cases.
Frankensteinbeck
@Anoniminous:
Honestly, I figured Typhus would have hit before now. It has killed way more soldiers than actual combat throughout history.
sdhays
@Embir: Don’t statutes specify a minimum and maximum sentence? Is 5 hours of community service really even an option for charges this serious?
dmsilev
@Embir: My layman’s understanding is that the Federal system has fairly explicit guidelines on sentencing and that while judges have discretion within those guidelines, the discretion isn’t unlimited. Maybe jail time becomes house arrest or similar, but going from “convicted of 37 felonies” to “community service” wouldn’t be in the cards.
gvg
Slightly OT but I just read elsewhere that Fox had named the moderators for the first Republican debate and one of them is this guy Baire who just did the unfriendly interview with Trump. If that is the case, I would say Fox is over Trump
I laughed
lollipopguild
Betty I would love to serve on a jury with you not least because I would spend a lot of my time laughing my ass off.
sdhays
@gvg: I wonder when Trump starts complaining about Brett bleeding out his “whatever”. I still remember that little chestnut.
Trump is so disgusting.
lowtechcyclist
@Omnes Omnibus:
True. This is one situation where I figure that (a) I have no idea how things are going to play out (even with Jack Smith playing his hand as well as possible), and (b) I cannot affect things one whit no matter how worked up I get. All I can do is let it happen.
Betty Cracker
@dmsilev: I think I heard there’s a mandatory minimum of three years on some of the charges?
Roger Moore
@Embir:
Not gonna work, because the prosecution can appeal the sentence. The feds have detailed sentencing guidelines. Judges are allowed to depart from those guidelines, but they need to explain their reasoning. That reasoning will be part of any appeal of the sentence, so it had better withstand scrutiny or it will be just as bad for the judge and the defendant as a more blatant attempt to pervert justice.
narya
I am strangely sanguine about the FL case. It’s not that I think that it’s a slam dunk; it’s not that I think Cannon has seen the error of her ways and will suddenly become a good judge; it’s not that I think Cannon won’t try some fuckery that cannot be reversed–it’s more that I believe Jack Smith has gamed this out in multiple directions and has more up his sleeves. If this were the ONLY thing going, I would be more anxious, but Jack has more, and then there’s Fani and there’s Trish; it’s gonna be a drip-drip-drip. As was noted in a previous thread, I think TIFG is beginning to get the whisper of a clue, that this isn’t a set of cases that you can elude with bombast or with trying to make it more expensive for the other guy. He hasn’t faced that before.
AM in NC
@Leto: Goddess does not love me enough to have the odious and corrupt Tim Moore booted from office because of a sex and corruption scandal.
I had SOOOOOOOO much fun talking with his staff yesterday saying how I never want to hear the words “family values” come out of their mouths again. I think they have been getting a lot of calls and sounded very tired (yay!)
bbleh
@Fraud Guy: @Baud: @WaterGirl:
“Panelist number 37, do the words ‘Balloon Juice’ mean anything to you?”
“Why, yes, I …”
“Move to strike for cause!”
RaflW
@Omnes Omnibus: Bust on outta here if you must, but I appreciate the measured views you offer on Cannon, etc.
Jay
@AM in NC:
Manson Family Values,……..
Roger Moore
@Roger Moore:
Replying to myself:
My understanding from listening to people who know far more than I do is that one of the areas where the judge can really tilt the scales is in jury selection. There’s a lot of leeway, and the decisions can’t be appealed. For example, the judge could let the defense boot as biased anyone who had ever said anything mean about Trump, while not letting the prosecution boot as biased obvious MAGAs. A biased jury would do more to help Trump than a few favorable evidentiary rulings.
Anyway
@Frankensteinbeck:
I am surprised Covid hasn’t been much of a factor (on both UA and RU sides) so far.
Wapiti
@Anoniminous: Fuck. That hammers civilian populations, too.
trollhattan
@Fraud Guy: @WaterGirl:
I envision, “Why, my stars I just don’t follow the news all that much, what with livin’ out in the swamp with the critters, and all. I must say that Mister Trump does cut a memorable figure, I’m just sorry that I don’t know all that much about him.”
ARoomWithAMoose
LegalEagle’s take on Cannon being assigned the case https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S8R2Nri5pU
trollhattan
@Wapiti: Yeah, Haiti didn’t have cholera until it was introduced by foreign troops who responded to the earthquake and aftermath. Far as I know they have yet to eradicate it.
MazeDancer
There is a Jack Smith parody account on Twitter. Which is actually quite good.
It seems to think that with the CIPA filings and all, Cannon can be contained. And Trump’s goose is cooked.
Frankensteinbeck
@Wapiti:
Ukraine and charity orgs have been working really hard to supply the civilians with clean water. Although on the Russian side… I’m pretty sure the Russian government cares about neither soldiers nor civilians.
Anoniminous
@PaulWartenberg:
Can’t have a breakdown in something they never had.
MazeDancer
And for those interested, here’s a bunch of stuff on CIPA.
Shorter version: Jack Smith can appeal every decision Cannon makes and get fast rulings.
tokyokie
@PaulWartenberg:
Cholera outbreaks usually result from unsanitary water conditions. And Russia just blew up the dam holding back the reservoir that fed the canal that’s the Crimea’s primary source of clean water.
Jay
Anonymous At Work
Pretty sure the jury pool will encompass the entire state, including corpses from 1900 onward, to find 12 + 12 alternates. A 100 year old corpse might have advantages in a lack of social media.
Anoniminous
@Frankensteinbeck:
Since they don’t have water for drinking they certainly don’t have water for bathing. Typhus is certainly a possibility
bbleh
@Roger Moore: And I’m pretty sure I read somewhere (emptywheel?) that she is limiting each side to 10 voir dire questions, to be listed in advance, and will be interviewing prospective jurors herself first.
Cluttered Mind
Maybe I’m wholly off base here but I feel like there’s no way that Smith and Garland aren’t 100% aware of what Cannon’s likely behavior is going to be, and there’s no way that they aren’t prepared for it. I would not be surprised if they expected Cannon to catch this case when they filed it. My guess is that they’ve got some leverage of their own on Cannon and are going to use it to force her to recuse herself if she behaves inappropriately. Or if she calls their bluff, use it to torpedo her career and maybe she’ll find herself up on charges too. No idea what that could be but who knows what all they found when they hit Mar-a-Lago. Either way, I’m not worried about Cannon. Smith and Garland have done things very very carefully every step of the way, they wouldn’t have failed to anticipate this.
James E Powell
@Omnes Omnibus:
Probability of that epidemic is approaching 1.
Part of that is the wound from December 2000 that has never fully healed. Most of it is this judge’s prior rulings. Anxiety is the product of unanswered questions. Nothing short of answers will allay people’s fears.
Jay
@Frankensteinbeck:
There is a vid of Ukrainian SOF rescuing Ruzzia soldiers up to their necks in floodwaters, (to be part of the exchange fund), while the Ruzzian’s on dry ground shoot at the rescue team and their own soldiers.
bbleh
@Omnes Omnibus: @James E Powell: Marcy Wheeler describes it as “another perfectly routine order” and goes into detail as to why.
Ergo, for purposes of this audience, it is a Rorschach Test.
James E Powell
@bbleh:
I know it’s routine. I also know it’s unrealistic to expect people unfamiliar with the courts to react to them like lawyers do.
For myself, I have no worries about the criminal cases against Trump. We have really good people working on them and whatever will be will be.
My anxieties are all attached to November 5, 2024.
Matt McIrvin
@tokyokie: Yep. Clean, uncontaminated drinking water is both the preventative and a large part of the treatment for cholera.
cmorenc
@Tim C.: Cannon won’t dismiss nor direct a NG verdict – the combination of getting spanked hard by a very conservative 11th circuit panel and her late realizations that Trump isn’t going to be president and her chances of advancement are better served playing this trial straight-up (washing the stink off her earler hack hijinks) – will keep her mostly on the level.
Else, she risks spending the rest of her time on the bench adjudicating the federal equivalent of low-level traffic ticket cases
Kristine
Oh, Betty—I shouldn’t laugh but I grew up in Florida so I guess I get a pass.
You’re on a roll today.
Sallycat
Said at end of previous thread: Federal juries are drawn from the counties in a division of the federal district. The jury will be made up of people from the counties that are in the district. A Sarasota resident can be called to serve on a jury in Tampa. So Trump’s jury will be from more than one county. And if a judge dismisses a criminal charge before trial, that is an appealable order. Jeopardy attaches once the trial starts. A jury verdict of acquittal is not appealable. Yes, I am a lawyer, but not a criminal defense lawyer.
Roger Moore
@tokyokie:
Which is interesting, because providing Crimea with a reliable water source was supposed to be a major goal of the reinvasion. If they’re destroying that water supply, it suggests they have given up on holding Crimea. Or maybe this was a local decision that happens to make their larger strategic goal more difficult; that kind of thing does happen.
Betty Cracker
A Rolling Stone article claims Trump is worried Mark Meadows is cooperating with the feds and dispatched aides to find out what’s up with him because he’s gone quiet. They returned with little info but lots of suspicions and now use rat emojis in texts about Meadows!
Roger Moore
@bbleh:
It’s fairly common for the judge to ask questions of the jurors before letting the lawyers try. I was a juror recently, and that’s exactly how it was done in our case. The judge had a set of questions that every prospective juror had to answer. Some of them were pretty generic and some were specific to the case, but they were the kinds of questions the lawyers probably would have wanted to ask anyway. Then he asked us some followup questions to clarify our answers, and he dismissed anyone he thought was obviously unfit in general or specifically for the case. Only after that stuff did the lawyers get to ask anything.
Kay
I don’t thin anypne will be suprised by this but it’s good they nailed it down anyway.
Betty Cracker
@Sallycat: I looked up a map when I received the summons, and the FL’s middle district is huge, stretching from Jacksonville to south of Ft. Meyers (well over 300 miles, I believe) and encompassing communities on both coasts.
Other MJS
@JWR:
Comer:
“We will not rest until
the full extent of President Biden’s involvement in the family’s schemes are revealedwe find the pony in this shitpile.”OGLiberal
@Betty Cracker: “given the recent hard right swing of FL Latinos.” What’s the reason for this? The Cuban factor has been in play forever and they aren’t getting any younger. Is it a hard right turn or do they just love Trump for some reason?
Anoniminous
UK saying Mariupol is at risk of a Cholera epidemic. Ukrainians may not have to take the city. They can sit outside and wait for the Orcs to shit themselves to death.
tokyokie
@Matt McIrvin:
The Russians apparently have built a network of trenches in the Kherson region that will be difficult for Ukraine forces to capture. But the living conditions in those trenches would accelerate the progression of a cholera outbreak, and soldiers debilitated by constant diarrhea and the resulting dehydration and electrolyte imbalances are not likely to offer significant resistance once the disease has taken hold. Brilliant long-term planning by the Russians.
Jay
Phoned, went right to a Christmas “we are closed” voice mail. Still left a message.
Anoniminous
@Kay:
Do they have Buttocks of Steel to go with their Rods of Iron?
Omnes Omnibus
@James E Powell: I don’t expect people to understand what a motion or order means, but I did hope that people would ask if something was normal or out of the ordinary before speculating wildly. Yes, I am new to the internet. Why do you ask?
Jay
Stuck in moderation at #91, too many hashtags.
Tony Jay
@Betty Cracker:
I haven’t had that much experience with organised criminal gangs (outside of TV and that whole thing with the Marseilles Mafia) but I’m pretty sure that people who refer to individuals who may or may not be cooperating with the Feds as ‘rats’ are saying they’ve committed crimes that these individuals can rat them out for.
Can’t think of any other possible reason for them using that term. Once again, The Trump Crime Syndicate proves itself to be stupider than silt.
Jay
retry
Not sure if this will come out legible, but the Ontario Public Services Union is hosting a vatnick speech.
Calls go directly to voicemail, (Christmas vacation voicemail),
But it is completely inappropriate for a Public Service Union that relies on public support to host Ruzzian apologists.
Jay
@Tony Jay:
silt is very important in parts of the ecosystem,………
stop dissing silt!
catclub
@cope:
 
Jury story. In a Mississippi courtroom a woman of robust dimensions asks to be excused because she has ‘the sugar’. Judge’s response: “Honey, you are excused.”
Jeffro
(deleted: I was gonna ask y’all whether it’s worth it or not to go see Jason Isbell and the 400 Unit at the Ryman in Nashville this fall…then decided I love the guy but nah)
HOWEVER
for those of you who are close to Nashville and/or ardent fans…tickets for their October 2023 8-night stand at the Ryan go on sale this Friday!
sukabi
Welp Betty, you know what you have to do….
LOCK. HIM. UP!
lol
catclub
@Betty Cracker:
Wasn’t there a list of potential witnesses that Trump was forbidden to communicate with?
Also, why Meadows? I thought most of Trumps crimes in the indictment are things that happened after he was gone and Meadows was no longer anybody’s chief of staff.
Ken
Does the UK government, more particularly Thérèse Coffey, know this bit of trivia?
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
Look who’s in the pocket of Big Water.
bbleh
@Roger Moore: been one several times, in different states, but was never questioned by a judge first, and where there were preprogrammed questions, they were on a written questionnaire. But different judges and different jurisdictions do different things in different cases.
The post went on to point out that, *IF* a judge is bent on sabotage, this would be an effective way to do it, because jury strikes can’t be appealed, and because even just a subtle bias could have a significant effect.
...now I try to be amused
@Baud:
A rubber-lined pocket, I trust.
catclub
Yeah, right. or maybe they know an asteroid is going to hit her.
Betty Cracker
@OGLiberal: Not being from South Florida, I have no insider knowledge, but from what I hear, it’s a combination of several factors, including an influx of immigrants from Venezuela who are as susceptible as Cuban exiles were to the “socialism” boogeyman and nonstop anti-Dem propaganda on Spanish-language radio. It must also be said that the FL GOP has simply out-hustled FL Dems. For decades now.
I do suspect a lot of folks love a strutting strongman as long as he’s flattering them and punching down on populations they dislike. In 2022, some Latino groups voted GOP (for DeSantis) in higher percentages than white Floridians, which is unprecedented as far as I know.
Geminid
@Roger Moore: Crimea’s reservoirs have been filled, so it is good for a while. Also, I think that some of the water that flowed to Crimea was used for agriculture, which can be curtailed.
So this move does not neccesarily signal an intent to give up the Peninsula, but maybe instead the expectation that Ukraine would get ahold of the canal, sooner or later.
Alison Rose
I got called in for jury duty once when I was living in San Francisco. I really did not want to do it. I had captained a polling place, I felt like that was enough civic duty and I had zero interest in sitting in a box with 11 people who statistically would include at least a few total dipshits. I fully intended to lie during voir dire if it got that far, because it’s not like they hook you up to a polygraph (and a lawyer friend of mine once said even if she can tell someone is lying, she wouldn’t want them there anyway if they’re that desperate not to be). It turned out I didn’t even have to lie, but I felt like a total asshole for being happy to get out of it, because of the reason. The case involved a couple who had committed numerous robberies at gunpoint on the streets, so of course the lawyers asked all of us if we’d ever been the victims of a crime of that nature, which I had not, but they also asked if anyone we knew had been. My mom’s parents were held up at gunpoint in their apartment building in New York (it was the final deciding factor that got them to move to Florida). So I told the lawyer that and it was like OK BUH-BYE YOU CAN GO.
I was glad to go but I felt guilty as hell.
Betty Cracker
@catclub: The story is about the investigation into J6 shenanigans, not the documents indictment.
Steeplejack
@catclub:
The feds are still investigating January 6 and other things.
Kay
@Anoniminous:
The leader wears a crown of bullets.
Just ordinary public school moms working with the crown of bullets leader. I used to order signs for the band and work concessions, they meet with the cult leader- same thing.
Mousebumples
I was called for jury duty this month (county level, not federal) and did not need to report.
@Juicer Legal Squad – I appreciate your ability to parse these legal details that aren’t as clear to me. I try to stay even keeled, but your insight helps. 😊
Ruckus
@Jay:
Manson Family Values are far worse than ShitForBrains lack of any values. First, he doesn’t have the balls to murder – and they did. Second, he doesn’t seem to need any kind of drug or alcohol to be deranged and stupid, he’s got that all on his own. Third, he seems to really only value sucking up (both ways) and while he still has some who seem to believe that is a grand thing, many have lost that loving feeling – or never got anywhere close to it in the first place, so he seems pretty much out of luck on all counts. Of course he may only partial understand that, being as delusional as he seems to be.
Tony Jay
@Jay:
Silt, in its place, is a valuable substance that does important work.
But would you send it up to represent your team in a quiz tiebreaker?
My case, well rested it is.
moops
Actually, I don’t think there really is any need for a lengthy pre-trial phase. The prosecution case is all bundled and clean, and there is not much of a defense that can be mustered.
I don’t think there should be much delay the Judge should accept. This case has been on its way for a year now.
Jury selection is going to suck though
NotMax
@Anoniminous
Tradition!
(Linked summation mentions six historical epidemics; there was a seventh in the latter half of the 20th century.)
Jay
@Kay:
Moonie offshoot, psyco. Got it.
Tony Jay
@Ken:
Coffey’s subspecies have evolved to feed on the toxins released by raw sewage. Hence her well-fed, self-satisfied smirk whenever she’s asked to explain the Government’s policy on poisoning everyone who goes within spitting distance of a river or beach.
She doesn’t care, her egg-batches are already maturing in the slurry.
BeautifulPlumage
@Alison Rose: I had that same attitude about 12 people coming to a rational agreement when I was called for jury duty at age 19. At that time you served 2 weeks, and I was on 3 juries. Totally changed my outlook, and now I’m a big fan of the process. The second jury had a police officer (who normally got dismissed) and he talked the others into voting me as foreman. All-in-all it was a great experience at that young age.
Frankensteinbeck
@OGLiberal:
I am not a local, I am not a Latino of any type, and my knowledge is shaky and unreliable, but here is what I have heard: Florida specifically attracts the exiles from governments that claim to be hard left like Venezuela, and they hate whoever the ‘socialist’ label gets stuck on. They are culturally conservative and anti-woke actions do not bother them. Because Latinos are actually many ethnicities, they do not much resent the GOP’s anti-immigrant policies. On the contrary, they like those policies, because they feel like those policies are aimed at the Latino groups they personally don’t like.
Ruckus
@Frankensteinbeck:
The Russian government cares about one person. Himself. And himself seems to be losing that loving feeling because not much has been actually working out for himself these days.
Jay
@Tony Jay:
Pub quiz tiebreaker no,…….
building estuaries and restoring the land during seasonal floods, yup.
My point remains.
NotMax
@Tony Jay
Them’s fightin’ words along the Nile.
Jay
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/pig-highway-rescue-hixon-prince-george-1.6881739
NotMax
@Kay
They’re so
clanKlannish.PaulWartenberg
@Jay: ah that would explain it. I fear for the Ukrainians in the waterpath.
Jay
@NotMax:
the Nile, or DeNile?
PAM Dirac
@cmorenc:
I think she is a Federalist Society hack. I just looked it up and all three of the 11th circuit judges that smacked her down are Federalist Society members. To the extent she “learned a lesson” from that experience, it was she was out of touch with the FS way. Now a lot of FS people are pushing the “drumpf is a loser” line. She would have to be not only stupid, but delusional to think that drumpf is more likely to support her career than the FS so she should go all in on drumpf and cut ties with the FS. And that’s assuming drumpf will ever be in a position to help her career. Even if she manages to let him skate on this charge, there are many other charges where she will have zero say in the matter.
NotMax
re: the title. A. Sherman, updated.
Hello CHUDder, Hello Fodder.
;)
Jay
@PaulWartenberg:
Other than you know, the ecocide,
Ukrainians in Ukraine controlled areas, ( even where the Ruzzian’s are shelling), will be okay water wise. Everybody in NATO and NAFO has sent water purification gear to Ukraine.
The shallow wells, that many relied on, will in time recover and there are ways to speed it up.
In the Ruzzian invaded zones, they are f*cked.
snoey
@BeautifulPlumage: Mass has gone to one day or one trial and done jury duty. I’ve been called about 10 times and only come close to being on a jury twice. Domestic assault, woman was the defendant, 6 person jury. I was number 8. One of the first six had worked with the guy. Whole selection took about 2 minutes.
Second time was a nasty sexual assault. I’ve had way too much involvement with victims in my life. Came forward and told the judge that I wasn’t sure that I could fairly and impartially fry his ass.
Roger Moore
@Betty Cracker:
Sure. You just have to remember that a lot of the Cubans who came to Florida were just fine with Bautista; they just don’t like a strongman who targets them and their businesses.
catclub
@Jay: Denial is Not just a river in Egypt.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
I can’t believe Cincinnati Reds and Arizona Diamondbacks are in 1st place.😵
May you live in interesting times
UncleEbeneezer
@Kay: White (Christian, Male) Supremacy has many tentacles. Each group may all have their own personal hobby-horses, but they share common goals and overlap. Always have. Just as Birchers, Anti-Communists, Segregationists, Isolationists, Fundie Xtians etc., all worked together in the 1950’s. Belief in rigid hierarchies and keeping those people in their place, has always brought bigots together.
catclub
@snoey:
If I don’t want to serve I will tell them I am willing to explain jury nullification to the rest of the jury.
Tony Jay
@Jay:
@NotMax:
Fine! I cannot but respect the love you feel for the fecund qualities of nature’s aquatic plant-encourager.
Stupider than lint it is.
BeautifulPlumage
@snoey: This was the early 80’s. We now have a 3-day or one jury system, And at 19, my little world didn’t include a lot of experience with those things.
NotMax
@Roger Moore
Heh. Unintentional surname mix-up, no doubt
Fulgencio Batista, Cuban strongman.
Dave Bautista, cinema strongman.
;)
Anoniminous
@Kay:
good lord
Denali5
Betty, I would so love for you to be on that jury.
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
I’d bet the decision was that if the Russia can’t have it, no one can.
Geminid
A lot of Venezuelan and Cuban immigrants are economic refugees who, rightly or wrongly, associate socialism with poverty.
Jay
@Tony Jay:
silt is not just fine soil, it is an ecosystem thriving with bacteria, nematodes, fungi and many other life forms,
lint at best contains hair from around the belly button. Maybe some follicle mites.
George
Betty, you have mis-spelled Fort Myers.
And you a Floridian!
Jackie
@Betty Cracker: “…and now use rat emojis in texts about Meadows”
A very apt emoji! 🐀 🐀
Tony Jay
@Jay:
I’m definitely regretting not opening with “My safe-word is Kronos”.
Now, back to Four Letter Wikipedia Hour. Do ‘rust’.
dr. luba
There have been concerns about water-borne disease in Ukraine since the muscovites blew up the dam. WHO mentioned concerns 8 days ago, and even the NYT had an article 3 days ago.
The concerns were about the civilian population. But the Ukrainian government is doing all it can to bring is safe drinking water. Unlike the occupiers, Ukrainians know how to use toilets…..
RaflW
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: Going to see the Pirates v Cubs game this evening. I don’t believe I’ve seen the Pirates since we moved out of Pittsburgh in 1980. I realize I’m almost entirely out of touch with MLB these days. We might see one Twins game every three years. Not getting a physical newspaper or watching local 10pm news any more has let even passing familiarity with baseball news & standings lapse.
Tonight is a special event for a beloved friend-colleague, and I look forward to hotdogs, nachos and seeing the new-to-me ballpark (I went to Three Rivers stadium a number of times, including a World Series game!).
Betty Cracker
@Geminid: I understand that and sympathize, but Joe Biden is not a socialist, and at some point, voters who believe opportunistic liars who claim Biden is the love child of Castro and Chavez are responsible for their own destructive civic actions. Even Americans who do call themselves “democratic socialists” in no way resemble Castro or Chavez. It’s an entirely different political context here, and voters refusing to adjust their lens to accommodate that fact don’t get a pass from me. It would be like me moving to Ireland and hating on “Irish republicans” because “Republicans” in America suck.
Jay
@Betty Cracker:
Biden can’t be the love child of Castro and Chavez, because Trudeau is./////
Roger Moore
@Betty Cracker:
100%. I also suspect this is a lot like the people who care everything about babies until they’re born, at which point fuckem. These are people who are looking for an excuse for their political preferences, which are generally pretty awful, and “Joe Biden is a communist” is a better excuse for voting for Trump than saying they want women barefoot and pregnant, or that they’ll abandon the US in a heartbeat if we overthrown the leader of the old country and return them to power.
KrackenJack
@lollipopguild: I can see the judge pounding her gavel and demanding order in the court while the jury titters at BC’s latest bon mot.
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: Yes, the framing of Democrats as socialists is so much hogwash and effective gasighting. But people were attributing various nefarious motives to the these immigrants because they don’t vote right, and I wanted to put another one out there that they are affected by. I’m not giving them a pass, just trying to analyze their motives.
tokyokie
I keep wondering just which prominent Democratic Party stalwarts are demanding workers own the means of production, but nobody can tell me.
Uncle Cosmo
@Jay: Remember, Denial is not just a mountain in Dyslaska.
Burnspbesq
@dmsilev:
Don’t remember where I was it (Just Security, maybe), but somebody has already taken a hypothetical crack at determining a Guidelines range (IIRC, assuming a guilty verdict on all 37 counts). The numbers get big in a hurry.
Ruckus
@tokyokie:
Brilliant long-term planning by the Russians.
I know this is snark, I really do. But.
In my lifetime, which goes back to the first half of the last century, I don’t recall the Russian government ever having long term plans. It has always been one man who wants everything right now in charge. And that didn’t change with vlad. They went in with their clown car show of strength and have been throwing bodies at Ukraine ever since.
And that’s why your snark is so snarky.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yes, I am new to the internet. Why do you ask?
That’s no excuse, you’ve been here more than 5 minutes so you should know how the internet works.
The normal process is that the less someone knows about any issue the more they can pontificate wildly about said issue. I believe that’s rule #1.
Burnspbesq
@Jeffro:
Saw him at ACL Live last month. Go!
Burnspbesq
@catclub:
Meadows is believed to have been up to his elbows in planning for 1/6. He is also represented by well-respected counsel who will, if Meadows is paying attention to his advice, keep him out of jail—and if Trump gets fucked in the process, well, karma’s a bitch.
James E Powell
@NotMax:
José Bautista, All-Star RF, Toronto Blue Jays
Burnspbesq
@Alison Rose:
I’d love to be on a jury someday, but unfortunately a law degree pretty much precludes that ever happening.
bbleh
@Jay: Oh. Mah. Gawd. Trudeau and Biden are related?!?
Ruckus
@Burnspbesq:
Been on 2 juries, one as an alternate, and on jury duty but not selected 2 other times and got excused once. That excused thing was not easy, had to go to a courtroom and swear in and explain why I should be excused, with about 25 other people. I’d never been called until this century.
bbleh
@Burnspbesq: been on 3 juries, criminal and civil, in 3 different jurisdictions, and if it’s of any value, I was impressed (and even a little bit surprised) by how seriously most people took their responsibility as jurors, and how thoughtful and amicable and careful the discussions were. A few people just went along for the ride, and I’m sure there are juries that are very different, but I came away with a renewed confidence in the system.
Geminid
@Burnspbesq: Some states allow lawyers and people with law degrees to sit on juries. My Atlanta friend is a retired attorney, and he was on a jury that decided a civil case. The judge was Judge McBurney, who is presiding over the grand jury in Fulton County Prosecutor Fani Willis’s election case. McBurney impressed my friend as a top notch jurist.
KrackenJack
@BeautifulPlumage:
I find the idea of terms of jury service a fascinating idea. So did you serve with a mix of the same people on all three juries?
Kathleen
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: I’m loving this Cincinnati Reds team! Loads of talent, heart, and joy. Haven’t been this excited about the Reds since 2012.
Hungry Joe
@bbleh: Been on two juries, and … likewise: My fellow jurors took things very seriously. Discussions/debates were thoughtful, polite. Both judges were excellent.
One case was so minor that it tumbled into ridiculous — the guy clearly should have pleaded out. But we looked hard, and with open minds, at his shaky defense. It was practically non-existent, and what there was of it was preposterous. We convicted him, but we by-god gave him a fair shake.
Scout211
@bbleh:
I was in the court room getting questioned for jury duty during the pandemic, all of us in masks and only half of the room filled with prospective jury members (for social distancing).
I started as #19 and moved up to #7 before they rejected me right before 5:00.
Ours is a rural county and we depend on retired judges to fill in when needed. The retired judge in this case was from San Francisco and was really bad. I don’t know how she handled the eventual trial but in the jury selection, she was distracted, seemed confused at times and often forgot what she was asking or what the attorneys were asking. None of the attorneys complained and I was surprised. But I guess it could make for a good appeal.
Roger Moore
@Burnspbesq:
I don’t know about that. Anecdotally, the jury I served on had a lawyer. More famously, the Chief Justice of the California Supreme Court was called for jury duty and wound up on a trial. He hated the experience so much he became a major proponent of jury duty reform, which led to the statewide one day/one trial system.
One thing I’ve noticed is that everyone who gets called for jury duty and doesn’t wind up serving has a theory about why they didn’t serve. Maybe the think they weaseled out of it by answering the questions a specific way, or they think people from their career or education level are dismissed. If you look at the numbers- the number of people called for jury duty vs the number of juries- it’s obvious that most people don’t serve because those are the odds. That leads people to think they know why they were dismissed even when it was just a matter of luck.
Hungry Joe
@Roger Moore: I dunno — when I was a journalist I was immediately tossed (by the state) every time. Most of my colleagues said the same. Since I retired, and have been asked only about my last job (children’s book author), I’m 2/2: been empaneled twice.
Roger Moore
@bbleh:
I was also impressed by how careful my fellow jurors were. We almost all paid careful attention and took good notes, and people were really careful to consider different sides of the issues. It made me a lot more confident in what juries do.
The one thing that made the biggest impression on me is just how little guidance we had on determining damages (mine was a civil trial). Especially on non-economic damages, there were no real rules; we just made it up as we went along. It helps me to understand how juries wind up with such strange damages sometimes.
Citizen Alan
@cmorenc: Hi, former federal law clerk here. I am not aware of any mechanism to simply stop giving cases to sitting district court judges regardless of their prior conduct. Unless the 11th circuit does something to muck with how cases are randomly assigned, she is going to be randomly assigned the same number of cases as every other non-senior status judge in her district.
Citizen Alan
@Geminid: They call us socialists for the same reason they call us muslims, and baby killers, and everything else: It’s just a proxy for n****r-lover (which I was once so called to my face for being a Clinton voter in the 90s).
TerryC
@lollipopguild:
@Burnspbesq: Nope. Michigan Law 1980 here. We convicted the defendant of 2nd degree murder,
Aziz, light!
I attended two full days of the Meal Team Six (Malheur Refuge) trial here in Portland, sitting three feet from the jury, and was unpleasantly surprised when the nullification verdict came down how unseriously these yahoos took their responsibility as jurors.
BellyCat
This is my shocked face.