Pedestrian deaths have increased an astonishing 77% since 2010, compared to 25% for all other traffic fatalities.
GHSA’s new report explores this and other national and state data about drivers killing people on foot: https://t.co/E3RzCzkTO5 pic.twitter.com/l0iOP0AKfY
— GHSA (@GHSAHQ) June 22, 2023
GHSA's @russ_martin81 spoke with @7NewsDC's @John7News about our new projection that pedestrian deaths increased yet again in 2022, and how dangerous driving, inadequate infrastructure, and larger and heavier vehicles have contributed to this awful trend. https://t.co/kMjxEY8YHx
— GHSA (@GHSAHQ) June 23, 2023
As a Gen X / late Boomer in a state notorious for its lousy drivers, my personal observation: There are a lot of old people who shouldn’t be driving any longer, way too many of them are in ‘safer’ (for them, theoretically) SUVs where they can’t see what’s immediately in front of them, and they have no idea how much farther their mini-tank will skid if they slam on the brakes in a panic.
(And this is one of the factors which is least liable to public adjustment, because old people vote; they don’t like taxes and they love FREEDUMB. Truthfully, a lot of them *don’t* have any good alternatives to driving themselves — or they believe they don’t, because they grew up when cars were considered the best and most all-American form of transportation — and they’re the demographic for whom ‘eh, just call an Uber on your cell’ is least attractive. I’d love to see better governmental regulation of rideshare services, not to mention targeted mini-van and jitney patrols, but of course any such suggestions would require public spending… )
Left: Pedestrian fatalities in the US. Note the steep and continuous increase since 2010.
Right: Truck and SUV sales in the US. Note the steep and continuous increase since 2010. pic.twitter.com/4XvnNDYUAb
— Jon Owen (@anotherJon) June 22, 2023
One thing I’m really not seeing in the comments to this: If car design is a contributing factor, you should see a lead of 5 years or so as new designs are finalized, produced, & disseminated into the larger pool of cars on the road https://t.co/8JamW2zbHD
— chatham harrison is tending his garden (@chathamharrison) June 22, 2023
This also goes to a lesser degree for new technology, like everyone being on their phones. Personally, I think many factors are at issue—perhaps too many for a tweet—but I will try: car buyers’ preference for taller/heavier vehicles, lower SUV emission standards, aging drivers,
— chatham harrison is tending his garden (@chathamharrison) June 22, 2023
Personally, of these I think having older drivers, in heavier vehicles, on bigger, faster roads is the most lethal issue. We should be enforcing licensing more strictly, we should be taxing vehicles by weight (or stopping distance!), & we should be slowing & narrowing roads.
— chatham harrison is tending his garden (@chathamharrison) June 22, 2023
If you want to know more, please read this: https://t.co/7nUDjhXo1H or this: https://t.co/3QPi4UqRKo
— Marin Cogan (@marincogan) June 22, 2023
I know correlation is not causation…but pic.twitter.com/mo34KaMrMH
— vocational politics appreciation account (@Convolutedname) June 22, 2023
One does wonder if the infusion of Screens was a bigger deal but also there’s low hanging fruit on front end design as well that we have no reason not to pursue
— The Mall Krampus (@cakotz) June 22, 2023
I was just talking with the guys here the other day about early phases of car shopping and coming to the awful realization that the only legitimate full use-case replacement for my current decade-old Focus hatch is probably something like the hybrid Corolla Cross or Escape marks
— The Mall Krampus (@cakotz) June 22, 2023
i very genuinely think that the coming wave of ultra-heavy EVs that accelerate on a dime should probably prompt an equivalent wave of automated bollards at major intersections, but won’t, because it’s impossible to build anything in this country. https://t.co/JZPZtxpoIu
— GOLIKEHELLMACHINE (@golikehellmachi) June 22, 2023
SectionH
OK, drama. 9 minures ago: it’s twitter, sorry, but damn: https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1672473260343140356?s=20
via my Finnish obvious source, but damn son, Not secret at all.
Steeplejack
@SectionH:
Take it downstairs to the still active Ukraine thread.
Steeplejack
Tesla doing their bit.
Debbie(Aussie)
I’m sorry if this is in the stats not in ALs article. But do we know the type of vehicle involved in these pedestrian deaths? Because there is an awful lot of guessing going on.
scav
Clearly, this nation is winning its war against obscene levels of safety.
SectionH
@Steeplejack: Sorry. My bad. Mea culpa.
Brachiator
Possibly , I guess. The preliminary report does not provide a lot of detail about the accidents that caused deaths. One section noted that California, Texas and Florida had more deaths than the percentage of their populations.
It might be interesting to know the ages of drivers and pedestrians. Also, it would be useful to know if drivers, and pedestrians, were under the influence of alcohol or other substances.
Types of vehicles, time of day. Sidewalks or unpaved roads.
prostratedragon
There’s a site I used to read regularly called Streetsblog, where all sorts of pedestrian issues are regular fare, including all the issues of street design, the effects of auto type, and so on, that AL mentions in the top post. They often highlight spectacular examples of bad intersections for pedestrians, the kind you couln’t get me to cross with a shotgun; the monstrosity up top is about par for the class.
Debbie(Aussie)
The US pedestrian death stats are not included in the OECD figures on page three of this paper, not sure why. But they don’t differentiate the passenger vehicles involved.
https://www.bitre.gov.au/sites/default/files/is_070.pdf
Brachiator
Also, of course, there have been all kinds of improvements in the technology that protects drivers and passengers. Not so much for pedestrians.
sab
I blame power steering. When my grandmother (born 1895) got too old to drive safely, she quit, because she wasn’t physically able to drive. Turning the steering wheel on that ancient Plymouth was physically too difficult. When my mother (born 1924) got too old to drive safely the only thing that stopped her was having her driver’s license taken away after she hit a train (!!)
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
blup, blup, blup
This could have been all avoided if he just watched “Operation Petticoat”
NotMax
Self-driving is not safe driving.
Probably been an increase in rear enders, too, tracking with increases in installation of adaptive cruise control. If traveling on a highway doing, say, 75 along with the traffic and the car in front of one equipped with ACC slows (for whatever reason) to, say, 60, the car with ACC enabled will also slow on its own to match the new speed – BUT – such deceleration (on most models) will NOT illuminate the brake lights, so the next car behind is in increased peril.
Fair Economist
Infrastructure is the real issue. First, cars should be properly contained by barriers if faster than 20 mph or so. They’re just too dangerous above slow speed.
Second, we need to build the infrastructure to get around without cars; protected sidewalks and bike lanes, everywhere. In my birth town (my mom just moved out) there literally aren’t sidewalk except in the older parts of town. Her friends really had no choice but to keep driving literally into their nineties – even with all kinds of physical and mental issues that meant they shouldn’t. I’m not even 60 yet and I’m already noticing I can no longer keep a mental map of all cars around me and my reflexes are slowing.
NotMax
Also too, besides phones and texting, a factor to be considered is the ubiquity of vehicle infotainment screens, a distraction which diverts a driver’s eyes from the road.
Origuy
I live near one of the most dangerous intersections for pedestrians in San Jose. There are a lot of people who run the light, turn right on red without stopping for pedestrians, and just crappy driving. But there are also a lot of people who cross against the lights, have their heads in their phones while they cross the street, and jaywalk twenty feet away from the crosswalk. I’ve seen old people drag their walkers across four lanes and a concrete divider and then go down to the corner they would have reached if they had used the crosswalk. Dumb
Even worse are the people who push their stroller across that divider with another kid in hand.
NotMax
@Origuy
Obligatory?
;)
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@NotMax: Especially given some current designs which move the instrument cluster onto the centerline-mounted infotainment screen, meaning that if you want to check your speed or your fuel, it’s not just a quick glance down and back, but you need to look to the side. Call me old-fashioned, but I think that the instrument cluster needs to be in front of the driver, not off to the side.
Steeplejack
@SectionH:
Not a criticism. Just probably more interested readers there.
Steeplejack
@NotMax:
Interesting point. 🤔
eversor
Elon banned the Possom Every Hour posting account. So animal picks are out. Cause it was an “AI bot”, which not really.
https://twitter.com/PossumEveryHour
RIP to a great one.
Fair Economist
Incidentally, pedestrian deaths can be prevented. Hoboken NJ hasn’t had one for 4 years. The secret? 20 mph speed limits everywhere, and pedestrian protection features like curb crossing bumpouts. It’s doable, and not even all that hard.
Odie Hugh Manatee
A huge part of the problem is that a lot of people who used to drive cars have moved on to trucks because they are fucking stupid and think they need a truck. Once behind the wheel of the truck they then drive it like it’s a car, invariably a sports car. The shitty car drivers have become even shittier truck drivers. Unfortunately it doesn’t stop at getting a truck. Often they discover that their truck is smaller than other trucks so they add a lift kit and giant tires, not knowing that these will make their truck handle even worse. Then you get the chucklefucks who not only put huge tires on their truck but also move them outward because they think it improves off-road stability.
The problem with using offset wheel spacers is that it moves the bearing load from the center to the side of the bearing, causing failures like what happened to this idiot and his truck:
Wankpanzer mayhem on freeway…
Imagine driving along, minding your own business and this assholes tire takes you out. Keep your distance from these morons who have no idea how truck suspensions work, they’ll get you injured or killed. I stay the fuck away from these emotional support trucks and their shitty drivers.
You should too.
NotMax
@Bruce K in ATH-GR
Precursor (from 1938!): mock-up of the dash of the Flying Wombat.
;)
opiejeanne
@NotMax: We just bought a new Subaru Forester, and it has both standard cruise control and ACC. My husband won’t use ACC because he doesn’t trust it, and I don’t use cruise control at all because I feel like I need to be in control of the car’s speed myself. Yes, I’m a control freak, so there’s that.
Birdie
Thanks for this post. A disturbing trend I had no idea about. I think it’s also disturbing that road fatalities in general have gone up by 25%. I always assumed that road deaths were trending down because cars were much safer (air bags, crumple zones, etc) than they used to be. Apparently not?
sempronia
I work in a busy urban trauma center, and old people driving poorly sometimes cause auto vs pedestrian crashes, but they are far outnumbered by the people who crash while driving under the influence. We also get a lot of auto vs bicycle crashes, where one or both parties are impaired. Around here it’s usually alcohol and/or meth. And the meth heads are definitely not driving Teslas.
NotMax
@opiejeanne
A selling point in my book for the Ford Maverick hybrid (aside from the attractive price) was that the model I bought was the only one of the three trim levels which did not include cruise control, not even as an option.
That was for the ’22 model year. For the ’23s, however, all trims come standard equipped with cruise. For both years, only the high-end trim could be had with optional ACC.
Don’t drive all that much anymore. So little, in fact, that it will be sometime next month (16 months from when first brought it home from the dealership) when the odometer reads 700 miles driven, which includes the 31 miles already on it when brand spanking new. 500 to 600 miles per year suits me fine. Recent e-mails from the dealer urging to come in for 10,000 mile servicing. Little do they know.
NotMax
@opiejeanne
Neglected above to offer congratulations on the new acquisition and wish you both happy motoring.
Martin
So, this is my new wheelhouse. I’m a nearly permanent cyclist now – drive about once a month. And I do a lot of advocacy/interfacing with my city on this. Here’s what my research suggests:
Part of the underlying problem here is that there is basically no consequence for a motorist striking a pedestrian. Unless they are drunk or street racing, it’s an ‘accident’ and unavoidable. A few months ago a 2 year old was riding a scooter on the sidewalk a block from my house. Her mom was out with her. She was wearing a helmet. A woman in a minivan reached into her purse to grab something, lost control of the car, and obliterated the 2 year old. She was not charged. Now, and she been carrying a gun, and ‘accidentally’ shot that 2 year old, she would have been charged, at least here in California.
That we treat negligent manslaughter as a moving violation is a problem. It means we treat driving as a right, one we cannot deny people or hold people accountable for. That incentives reckless behavior. But I think this is only a component of the problem.
My suspicion is that combined with the problems above is a bigger issue because these deaths are more likely to be in cities (even accounting for population). There are some suggestions that the real culprit here is cognitive overload which 1 and 2 above make worse. If you drive in rural areas, you as a driver don’t need to keep track of a lot of dynamic obstacles – cars, people, etc. and most people can keep track of all of them. When making a decision with the car, they can do so with a high degree of confidence that none of those obstacles will have moved into the space they are going. But in urban areas you can’t do that – there are too many dyanamic obstacles. The freeway near my house is 26 lanes wide. The number of cars you need to keep tabs on when the freeway is crowded but not congested is really high. So you shift your driving mode to one where you only keep track of the highest priority obstacles and trust that other drivers are doing the same and won’t hit you. Generally you only had to track cars and people walking, but now there are scooters and cyclists. They travel at different rates of speed, they travel in new places – bike lanes, etc. They’re new categories for drivers to track and if those numbers are growing – as they are in urban areas – drivers are getting more easily overloaded, and they’re having a harder time keeping track of everything.
Now, there’s two ways to handle this. The personal responsibility way is to say – yo, you need to recognize when you are overloaded and stop driving if that happens. That’s fine in some cases – my parents won’t drive her in SoCal for exactly that reason, they just can’t do it. But that’s harder if you need to get to work. The social way is to say – we can take measures to help this. If we put a divider in the road – you can ignore the cars on the other side. A protected bike lane lets drivers filter out the cyclists. A pedestrian bridge lets you ignore them, and so on. This can be expensive to implement, but it keeps everything more or less in place. Or you can do what other cities are doing – banning cars from city centers, and slowing them down.
Cities and nations that have made good progress on their Vision Zero plans have come up with a single solution to the problem – slow down cars. The speed limit in Paris is now 18MPH. The slower you travel, the fewer things you need to track because you are covering so much smaller an area. And response times get much better, and if you do hit someone, the injury is minor, not fatal. And if you slow cars down, and make roads safer, people shift to walking and biking, which takes cars off the road and makes everything safer. And of course transit helps all of these things, but that too is quite expensive.
In terms of vehicle-vehicle fatalities, that seems to be primarily a function of vehicle mass and speed. And this explains why the US is seeing this and other nations aren’t. That growing mass and speed is a uniquely American problem. EVs are heavier than ICE vehicles, and people generally see moving from an ICE to an EV as a license to buy a larger vehicle because they perceive the emissions savings makes it acceptable to, or not having to buy gas makes it more affordable over time. Either way, in the US vehicles are getting heavier. 80% of vehicles sold are light trucks, not cars. And EVs makers are selling their vehicles often around 0-60 times. This 9100 lb Hummer EV review:
Yeah, the driver won’t regret it, but everyone around them probably will. It can get up to 60 in 120 feet, but needs 200 feet to come to a stop from that speed because of that mass. This thing is simply designed to kill people. Having Biden out there promoting it really did not do the public a service at all.
Martin
So, another thing that needs to happen. My electric bike is speed limited to 28 MPH. Scooters are as well. Pretty much every modern car knows what the local speed limit and either displays it on the GPS or the dashboard. So why aren’t cars speed limited to the local speed limit. Because you shouldn’t be able to unzip a car like this with anything short of a tank. That was yesterday. This should not be possible either by intent, negligence, or accident, and it’s preventable. Why should a car even be allowed to go 130 MPH on a public street? 6 people died in that collision. We call it an ‘accident’ but was it? Or was it a ‘negligence’ or was it a ‘homicide’.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@NotMax: Which Island are you on?
NotMax
@Martin
Hummer EV also has a battery heavier than a VW Beetle and not all that far off in size equivalence. Madness.
Liked the offhand remark made on a video about the Morris Mini. For the original models, narrator said no one knows how long it took to get from 0 to 60. Because it couldn’t get up to 60. ;)
NotMax
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
The Valley Isle, Maui.
TriassicSands
The problem is not really old people or screens or large vehicles. The problem is America. What that means is poor mass transit necessitating old people continue to drive; attention diverting screens, because of the mindless attraction to technology, even when it is more dangerous; and large vehicles, for any reasons including this is America where bigger has always been seen as better regardless of the costs.
I have to go to a hospital fifteen miles from my home twice a week. That means using a highway that has 40, 45, and 55 mph sections. On the 55 mph sections, most drivers and especially those in large SUVs and trucks pass me continuously going 10-15 mph over the speed limit. When we get to the town, traffic compacts due to lights and I end up catching and sometimes passing many/most of the cars that passed me while speeding. In town, I’m not speeding, but adhere strictly to the speed limit, while the speeders are often unbelievably slow when red lights turn to green. They’re not really paying attention — on phones, fiddling with gadgets, talking to passengers, etc.
When the 55 mph zones hit either a 45 or 40 mph zones, the speeders rarely if ever slow down and certainly not to the speed limit. Overall it is a demonstration of poor driving, utter disinterest in laws, and a total lack of concern for wasting fuel and pumping more CO2 into the atmosphere than necessary. There is no way for me to get to the appointments on mass transit, so driving is my only option.
Where is law enforcement? They only very, very, very rarely make an appearance. The transition zones — down from 55 to 45 or 40 could produce an incredible amount of revenue if they were regularly patrolled by state troopers. But in every, say, 100 trips involving thousands of speeders, I would be surprised to see one vehicle pulled over for speeding (just a guess).
Overall, those trips are a wonderful example of America. Laws don’t apply, paying close attention doesn’t happen, and a complete lack of concern for climate change. America in a nutshell in 2023.
The problem of pedestrian deaths probably has a lot of different causes. Poor driver attention could be the biggest problem, aggravated by the size and design of vehicles and roads/intersections. Older drivers, of which I am one (In almost 60 years of driving no tickets, and two accidents in both of which I was rear-ended by young drivers not paying attention.) certainly may be a problem, but with no or very poor mass transportation alternatives in much of the country, it is understandable that they continue to drive. In some circumstances, very low income Americans, including the elderly, may be eligible for low cost transportation, but that is based on income, not need or safety.
To sum it all up, I think the problem is this country, its culture, expectations, and values.
TriassicSands
@NotMax:
EVs have myriad problems that are rarely if ever discussed. Since they don’t use fossil fuels they are seen as the answer to climate change, but they create a new set of environmental problems.
We need generally smaller vehicles. A smaller EV requires a smaller battery, which reduces the overall use of raw materials, not least of which are the rare earth materials they require. The cost of replacing a spent battery is exorbitant, which makes it unrealistic to expect low income Americans to buy used EVs that could need an unaffordable battery replacement. I don’t know what the current state of recycling is for EV batteries, but if the countless, huge batteries end up in landfills, that would create equally huge pollution problems. If there is efficient recycling that would certainly help.
A few years ago, Ford announced that they were switching to all SUV and truck production, phasing out sedans, etc. That would seem to increase the average use of raw materials, which isn’t a great idea in a finite world. Why would they do that? Profits.
Those are just a few of the problems presented by EVs. Over burdened power grids are another. Americans routinely act without considering unintended consequences for their actions. The whole point of EVs is to allow Americans to continue to waste resources in a world threatened by our failure to acknowledge that our lifestyles are excessive. We need to cut down carbon emissions, for which EVs are indispensible when compared to gas/diesel vehicles, but we seem to ignore the real problem — wasteful, unsustainble lifestyles.
West of the Rockies
Anecdotally, I see a lot more people speeding through orange lights. Is it growing self-importance, vanity, more impatience because of overcrowded roads? I don’t know.
I’m in CA, home to 40 million people in an area that loves its pick-em-up trucks, monstrous behemoths that are terrible for the environment and anything else into which they collide.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@TriassicSands: The solution is cars that run on coal which is plentiful and a renewable resource
sab
@TriassicSands: My younger stepson is an early adapter. Everything trendy he does. Last year he bought an EV pickup truck. He doesn’t need a truck. Nobody on either side of his family has ever needed a truck or owned a truck. He lives in an urban condo with a SO and two tiny dogs. And drives a pickup 45 miles to work every day when all he needs is a small car.
Apparently this is our future.
West of the Rockies
@NotMax:
Do you bike a lot or live super close to everything you need? That’s a wildly low number of driving miles. Our commute to work in-town is five miles each way.
TriassicSands
@sab:
One sad reality that goes with his choices is that he will get to experience the results of his choices. I don’t know how old you are, but I will be gone. My attitudes changes in the late 60s and early 70s, expecially after reading one of the most important papers (in my opinion) ever to appear in Science — “The Tragedy of the Commons,” by Garrett Hardin. I don’t know if it is still true, but there was a time when that article had generated more responses in Science than any other article it had ever published.
It’s readily available online and still well worth reading. He doesn’t use the atmosphere as his example (this was before climatologists had realized the danger of warming we were creating), but his thesis applies every bit as much to it as to grazing land.
I don’t know if Hardin fully understood how appropriate his use of the word “tragedy” was.
eclare
Here in Memphis if I guessed the answer would be speeding. I quit a job because I was terrified of the commute. A few months before I did another person did too. The area was filled with six lane, straight, flat roads, speed limits were a joke. This was also an economically distressed part of town, so lots of pedestrians.
BellyCat
@TriassicSands: “
The Tragedy of the Tragedy of the Commons
The man who wrote one of environmentalism’s most-cited essays was a racist, eugenicist, nativist and Islamaphobe—plus his argument was wrong.
By Matto Mildenberger on April 23, 2019.
Scientific American offers a different viewpoint.
Matt McIrvin
@BellyCat: I’ve seen libertarians use the “tragedy of the commons” as an argument for the elimination of public goods–that there should never be a commons because people will inevitably abuse it; everything needs to be privately owned. I always assumed that wasn’t what Hardin intended but… maybe it was.
RevRick
@Brachiator: We blame drivers, we blame car/truck design, but the one thing we fail to blame is road design. Traffic engineers design roads for traffic flow and speed of movement, and not one whit for pedestrian safety.
If you want to improve the safety of pedestrians, there’s one simple solution: make it damned unsafe for drivers to speed. Unfortunately, that’s not going to happen, so fiddle around with ridiculous work-arounds, like crosswalks that aren’t effective for the elderly, disabled or parents with strollers, not to mention the fact they can add a quarter mile to the trip for these people.
We have designed our national world around the car, and this is especially evident in suburbia, where developments all feed into an arterial road system, which constantly has to be widened to accommodate more traffic, and where nothing is in safe walking distance. Pedestrian deaths are the inevitable consequence.
RevRick
@TriassicSands: People will drive as fast as the road design permits, and speed limits are futile attempts to get them to not drive faster. You want to slow people down? Make it dangerous for them to drive fast. But the design of suburbia has essentially made that impossible.
WaterGirl
@Steeplejack: It says Open Thread right in the title.
WaterGirl
@SectionH: No need to apologize. Besides, what’s going on in Russia right now is not just about Ukraine.
On the other hand, it can be a bit jarring when you put up a thread and the very first comment changes the subject. Maybe wait until comment 5, to be polite? :-)
NorthLeft
Not sure about our numbers here in Canada, but I expect that our number of pedestrian deaths is increasing too. I am sure the number of cyclists that are being killed on the roads is seeing a similar rise.
Unfortunately, there is a large enough segment of the population that doesn’t care, or are actually hostile towards any measures to reduce those deaths.
Look, those same people don’t give a shit about gun deaths, COVID deaths, or most any preventable deaths either.
One can only admire their twisted consistency.
Pittsburgh Mike
This should be easy to figure out. At the time of an accident, you know the identity of the driver, the make and model of the car. You should be able to find out whether the driver was on the phone, either via their phone or the cell provider. All this information would be easily gathered, and perhaps actually is, either by police or insurers.
Pittsburgh Mike
@RevRick: But road design is probably one thing that hasn’t changed significantly since 2010. Where I live, it has probably improved in the last decade as more speed bumps have been installed.
BellyCat
Mildenberger believes it was. Their counterpoint is worth a read for those who haven’t. The assertion tracks with current right wing ideology.
Matt McIrvin
@RevRick: I see urbanists blaming road design all the time. The way we’ve laid out streets and roads in the US is basically a pedestrian-mashing machine.
One of the prime offenders is what they call a “stroad”, those sprawling, quintessentially American commercial strips that are neither a street nor a road, lined with businesses but with fast-moving multilane traffic. If you can’t use a car you’re going to have to walk vast distances along the stroad to get to these places, but even if there are sidewalks, it makes you a target.
But that doesn’t explain a sudden rise since circa 2010 (after a long slow decline), since it’s been a problem since the 1950s.
BellyCat
Solution to slow down cars: cobblestone! Only highways get anything smoother.
Matt McIrvin
@BellyCat: In hindsight, the 1960s-70s diversion of environmentalism into worrying about the Population Bomb was a bad move–resulting in a lot of what’s now called ecofascism. There was an assumption that the poorest people were always going to outbreed the earth’s carrying capacity unless brutal authoritarian measures were taken, but it’s clearer today than it was then that they’re really not the problem.
Matt McIrvin
@BellyCat: That’s definitely one of the things they use in European city centers to slow down traffic and signal that the streets are not exclusively or even primarily intended for motor vehicles.
I’ve been thinking about this after walking around in places like Covent Garden and Barcelona’s Gothic Quarter. These are dense urban places where the street layout predates cars, but also, where modern policy decisions have kept them not designed around cars. And it helps sustain huge vibrant pedestrian traffic and even makes them major tourist destinations. You can walk around anywhere there and at least not feel like something is going to squish you into a smear on the pavement. They also have massive public transit connectivity, of course, so nobody drives into these areas unless they have a very specific reason to.
BellyCat
@Matt McIrvin: Truth. And cars were prohibitively expensive for many while being slower than subway systems.
As to the point of controlling reproduction for po’ folk, the anti abortion movement does exactly the opposite; thus, it has never really made sense. (But why would a little cognitive dissonance ever apply to right wing evangelical initiatives!)
Matt McIrvin
@BellyCat: Weellll, the anti-abortion folks have always had a demographic-war angle too: they wanted whites to breed more, and to have a copious and preferably whiter (though tbf they’ve been a bit flexible about that) supply of poor babies available for people culturally like them to adopt. The need to force women to have babies that would then be taken away from them is a huge part of it.
Jeffg166
I don’t trust anyone behind the wheel of a car when I am on foot and crossing the street. I always flag them to go first if they even stop.
BellyCat
@Matt McIrvin: Agreed. I suppose the quiet part would be spoken too loud if religious extremists instead lobbied for “abortions for black women only”. BUT, I’m sure they will concoct some type of holy rationale for this pivot if/when it becomes apparent that their goal of “moar white(ish) babies” is unintentionally creating a large voting bloc that will oppose their plan for governmental dominance.
(Same applies to the 2nd Amendment zealots who would like to limit black gun ownership and concealed carry)
BellyCat
@Jeffg166: Good strategy. Motorcyclists are taught from day one: YOU ARE INVISIBLE. Pedestrians increasingly need to think similarly.
Practical tip: wear polarized sunglasses so you can see through the sheen of car windows to determine where a motorist is actually looking. All too rarely is it where their vehicle is headed.
Spanish Moss
I am surprised that so many people feel that the cause is the kind of vehicle or driver age. I suppose your perspective depends on where you live. What I have noticed in the past few years is that so many people are not paying attention because they are on their cell phones, both drivers and pedestrians. Nowadays when I see erratic driving it is usually because the driver is using their cell phone. And it has become common to have near collisions with other pedestrians on the sidewalk because they are looking at their phones instead of where they are going. That wasn’t even a thing until a few years ago. I live near a historic district in Concord, MA and I avoid driving through it when I can, because so many pedestrians cross the street or jay walk without paying attention, so as a driver I have to be hyper vigilant.
I agree with others, some more detailed data would be great.
SteverinoCT
In my downtown, there is a “senior living” development less than a quarter-mile from US Route 1, the main drag: right on the corner is a plaza with a CVS and a supermarket (and a package (liquor) store). It was only recently that the sidewalk was extended and improved so that the seniors could walk/ride their scooters to the stores. And then went on to extend the sidewalk the other way so that *everyone* could walk from the residential areas to downtown. Fancy that.
SteverinoCT
Downtown Mystic, CT, a congested tourist area, is strict about stopping for pedestrians, to the point that drivers have to watch for people stepping out without looking. It helps that the traffic dictates almost a crawl, and there is some weird atmosphere of politeness such that everyone stops and allows in traffic from the side streets in alternation, and for parallel parking on the street. And of course the drawbridge opening periodically means that no one in any real hurry would go that way anyhow.
CT recently passed a law regarding pedestrian crossing, and had a PSA campaign about stopping for pedestrians signaling via a raised arm that they want to cross. This helps for the pedestrians that are waiting for a bus or just standing on a corner checking their phones rather than trying to cross.
Another Scott
I commented to my state rep about 20 years ago that more needed to be done for pedestrian safety on US-1 south of Alexandria, VA. He agreed. People are still getting run over on it, though.
:-(
It’s a major commuting route, with stretches of 3+ lanes each way, 45 MPH speed limit (that is often exceeded by people racing to get to the next traffic light). Lots of apartment complexes, strip malls, etc., on both sides. And it can be miles between marked cross-walks, so people have to take their lives in their hands and cross outside intersections.
There’s talk of dropping the speed limit to 35 MPH, which will infuriate commuters but needs to be done. There needs to be much more done. Like lots of pedestrian walkway overpasses (but done in such a way that they don’t looks like prisons (giant fences, etc.)). You can’t have high density housing and lots of intersections and lots of pedestrians on a 45 MPH major road and expect things to be safe for people without separating them.
There have been plans in place for years after years of study, but they mostly involved widening the roadway to make things easier for commuters… :-/
Grr…,
Scott.
pat
Probably a dead thread, but I have a couple comments.
My sister was hit by a car a few years ago as she crossed in a pedestrian crosswalk. It hit her in the thigh and she went through a couple of surgeries to put it back together. Has one leg a couple of inches shorter than the other..
If it had been a pickup truck, she would be dead.
Also, I drive often through the university district. All sorts of pedestrian crosswalks with lights and signs and young people walking across without a single glance toward the oncoming traffic, just expecting them to stop….
WaPo has excellent updates on the russian war….
bluefoot
I needed to replace my car in 2020. What I noticed while car shopping: cars are a lot bigger, with poorer visibilty. I test drove a couple cars where I couldn’t see pedestrians waiting at the crosswalk at all. Freaked me out. Cars now have touchscreens instead of knobs and buttons. Wtf is up w that? I need to take my eyes off the road to turn on the defogger?
aside from car design, I see way too many drivers and pedestrians paying attention to their phones and not what’s going on around them.
I had to move the first year of the pandemic to accommodate WFH and I hate being dependent on my car. (I’m in greater Boston.) I really miss being able to take public transit for nearly all my needs.
Elizabelle
Haven’t caught up with the thread but — just wait until vehicle engines are almost soundless.
I have a habit of stepping out if I don’t hear an oncoming vehicle and that needs to stop — yesterday. Also worry about the toll the silent vehicles are taking on animals and other wildlife.
I have a hybrid Lexus SUV, and it startles me how quiet it is at starting. Am already backing or gliding forward before any engine noises kick in.
It’s a pity US manufacturers have gone for behemoths. And so expensive. A person could fall right out of the job market if their car was totaled, and they cannot come up with $$ for a replacement. Insurance will just cover cost of the existing car, which may have gotten exponentially more expensive to replace.
This happened to a friend very recently. Her car was totaled by a large pickup which rearended her at a traffic light. She is in a world of economic hurt right now, not to mention injuries requiring physical therapy.
Matt McIrvin
@bluefoot: Touchscreens are cheaper for the manufacturer than physical controls and I think that for a while there was a perception that they could be sold as futuristic. But I also think there’s been a consumer backlash against them.
I bought a CAR, a sedan, not an SUV–a dwindling market segment in the US. And it does have a screen but it’s used only to control the stereo system (which still has a couple of knobs as well) and for mirroring your phone via USB/Bluetooth, which I use for navigation. The AC/heating system and the actual car stuff all has physical buttons and switches that you can operate by feel–that is absolutely essential
Just a few months after I bought it… it got rear-ended by a huge pickup that smashed in the whole back of it, and it wasn’t quite totaled but it was in the shop for half a year waiting for parts. But it’s good again. And I wasn’t hurt.
luc
A great video on the topic: Stupid trucks
https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo
HumboldtBlue
Philadelphia sports fans had a tough season in 2022-2023. The Phillies lost in the World Series, The Union lost in the Major League Soccer title game, the Eagles lost the Super Bowl and the Sixers did their yearly second-round playoff bounce out.
So that meant no parades. What’s that? A catastrophic vehicle collision takes out four lanes of I-5 in North Philly, and we got it back open in two weeks?
GET OUT THE FUCKIN’ MASCOTS! SWOOP! GRITTY! FRANKLIN! THE PHANATIC! WHATEVER-THE-FUCK-THE-HORSE-DRAGON IS! GET THEM ON TOP OF A TILLER LADDER TRUCK AND LET’S HAVE A FUCKING PARADE!
Kathleen
@Jeffg166: This. After running 36 years in downtown Cincy and Cincy neighborhoods I’ve learned it’s safer to “jay run” if the road is clear and to never ever assume a car is going to stop at the stop sign or the red light. Most of the offenders I’ve observed are not older people they are younger and they are distracted. They don’t look in both directions either even if they come to a stop. My running partner and I barely averted being smashed by an SUV speeding through a downtown alley driven by a young woman with no intention of stopping at the sidewalk until we yelled at her and she had to stop. She then shrugged and giggled. This has been going on for years but it does seem to be getting worst in general. Big problem in Cincy .
Another Scott
@Matt McIrvin: My Kia Niro PHEV has a big touchscreen with all kinds of functions, but also has lots of mechanical switches on the steering wheel. That seems like the best way to do it.
Cheers,
Scott.
luc
@Martin: Thanks a lot for these comprehensive thoughts!
Tony G
The decision of the majority of automobile buyers to start purchasing SUV death-machines starting in the Reagan Administration is one of the most toxic, shameful aspects of American culture. SUVs are (allegedly) “safer” for the driver, but more deadly for everyone else. (Not to mention the fact that they spew out an inordinate amount of air pollution and greenhouse gases.
Tony G
@bluefoot: Touchscreens on automobile dashboards should be banned. Period.
Tony G
@Elizabelle: Automobile manufacturers make SUVs and “suburban make-believe pickup trucks” because that’s what (most of) the buyers want. I blame the buyers.
JaneE
Lack of direct visibility could be offset by sensors, which offer warnings. Every car I have had for the last 7 years warns me of obstacles, and the newer ones are better. Anyone who gets near my car triggers a warning in the parking lot, even when they are waiting for me to pull out.
It has been almost 60 years since my car was t-boned by a red light runner. Ever since I have been very aware that traffic lights and right of way means very little. It applies to cars and doubly to pedestrians.
Of course blaming it on old people always works. It has for the last 50 years.
SC54HI
Came across this YouTube channel, Not Just Bikes, which has many videos on the follies of urban and roadway design in North America. The author relocated from Canada to the Netherlands and has a lot to say about vehicles, road design, pedestrian & bike safety, and the common good when urban planners stop designing roadways only for motor vehicles. His videos on “stroads” are very good and show exactly why this design + increasing numbers of larger & heavier vehicles are a lethal combination.
We just had to replace our 12-yo Honda Civic and chose to get a 2023 ICE model. It’s our only car and we wanted something that would feel roughly the same in terms of size, figuring that would make for safer driving. We really appreciate the new-to-us safety features like the blind-spot warning system & rear-camera for reversing. We’re officially old (just under 70) so barring something unusual this may well be our last car. We could get by with public transit although getting in & out of our neighborhood is a pain — the bus comes once an hour — and there’s no denying that cars are great for shopping trips. That all said, we at least would have a choice. Many don’t.
TriassicSands
@BellyCat:
This isn’t a good forum for discussing this. However, I read the Scientific American article and found it severely wanting in many ways. Some of his arguments are so weak as to be laughable. When I first read the article more than fifty years ago, racism was a huge problem. For a time it appeared things might be improving, but the GOP and Trump and their millions of supporters have dragged us backward and hugely increased racism and bigotry in general.
There are problems and there are solutions. Hardin posed a problem. If his solutions are racist, that is on him, but t
50-60 years ago there were solutions available that were never taken or even seriously tried. People proposed them, but the decisions made were to proceed with business as usual. We can see where that has gotten us. I studied with a professor who spent his career working with East African nomadic tribes and learned what would and would not effectively limit population growth among them. Female empowerment — education and jobs — were probably the single most effective means of achieving that.
One last point. Anyone who reads The Tragedy of the Commons only after reading the Scientific American article is more likely to suffer from confirmation bias — they will be looking for evidence and proof of what they think they will find. I read the article before the author of the Scientific American article was probably born. And I’ve read countless other articles since that are both pro and con. But when I look at where we are today in the world, I see the results of ignoring Hardin’s basic idea.
TriassicSands
That was never what I took away from Hardin. My focus on Hardin was the problem, not the solution. I had my own ideas of what could and should be done, and foremost among them has always been that the developed countries of the world had to change and assist the undeveloped countries out of poverty into sustainable lifestyles. Not because “we knew better” (we clearly didn’t), but because we had exploited them for so long.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
Since the pandemic, I’ve definitely seen more reckless drivers on the highway. The trend preceded this, but I can’t help but think it’s making things worse. These are young people, though.
Ruckus
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:
This could have been all avoided if he just watched “Operation Petticoat”
With that ego? I don’t think so….
Chris T.
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:
Given the thread, I misread the innermost box as “Tesla CEO” at first. It fit really well!
Chris T.
@Martin:
This is ridiculous. Acceleration is acceleration, even if the magnitude is negative. Whatever time it takes to go from 0 mph to 60 mph, the vehicle should be able to stop in the same amount of time, assuming the same conditions (dry pavement or whatever). Clearly the brakes on that thing are inadequate.
That said, one of approaches I’d like to see, for EVs in the future, is “EV-trains”: you drive your EV from wherever you are (suburb or exurb for many) to the “EV hauler” track, drive it up into the carrier, plug in for charging, and have the carrier rail line take it the next 20 or 200 or 2000 miles to your offload point, where you drive back off and go to your destination. There’s no loss in autotonomy, you get where you’re going even faster assuming sensible high speed rail, and you don’t have to have range anxiety about your smaller EV battery because when you arrive in (say) Houston after leaving Ft Worth, your battery is charged, not mostly-empty.
(OK, the Texas example is ridiculous because Texas, but still.)
Chris T.
@Martin:
Mine gets this wrong a lot: it will show 70 mph as the limit on the local 20mph road, or 35 mph as the limit on the freeway. This seems to be a matter of mis-matching to a nearby (often parallel or near-parallel) road but sometimes it’s just a database error; whoever supplies the maps fixed a local road about a year ago, noting that the limit is actually 25 mph and not 35 mph as it had been displaying until then.
If vehicles defaulted to a max of, say, 25 or 35 mph, and the local vehicle-transport-rail-lines were where things went 200 mph, that too would really “incentivize” (as the marketing speak types say) the use of the vehicle-haulers.
Chris T.
@TriassicSands: EV batteries don’t need rare earth elements. Some have them anyway, for various reasons, but they are not required. That part of the argument is just plain wrong.
The rest is right of course: smaller, lighter batteries is generally a big plus, and smaller, lighter vehicles can get away with smaller, lighter batteries.
Chris T.
@West of the Rockies:
Just about everything is 9 miles from where I am. My gym is 9 miles each way. I’m up to about 15000 miles in about 4 years now, so NotMax has me beat by a lot…
Ruckus
@Martin:
I live in SoCal and the number of full sized pickups is pretty amazing with gas at $4.40/gal to easily over $5. Station next to my place is $4.80 cash regular to almost $6. It’s not close to the most expensive. And most of those pickups are 4x4s, jacked up, bigger tires and wheels and have never seen even a dirt road, let alone off road. And I rarely see them with any passengers.
Ruckus
@TriassicSands:
Here in LA County we actually have pretty good public transportation. Last Saturday I rode the Metro electric train from the east San Gabriel Vally to Santa Monica. Had to change trains once, without having to leave the platform. The trip was free, they were showing off the new stations and routing. Of course normally that would still only cost this old fart 35 cents – EACH WAY! Not only is it easy and cheap, it runs every 12 minutes. I could drive this but it would likely take longer. In anywhere near not all that fast rush hours it is always faster. I do have to be among all that humanity though….
Ruckus
@Chris T.:
You very likely know this, Li batteries are what mfg know how to make in differing types and sizes right now, because of phones, laptops, etc. There are many other types of batteries for cars that are being designed and will very likely replace Li rather soon as the cost is quite a bit less. LI is what we have now.
Ruckus
@Chris T.:
How would you get by rail from LA to SF? The passenger train right away that exists is along the coast only goes to San Luis Obispo, it’s a sightseeing trip (beautiful! And yes I’ve done this run, more than once) and the inland route N/S is mostly freight trains running both directions. (LA is either one of or the busiest port in the US, about 20% of cargo coming in to the US comes in here and the passenger trains don’t run south of Bakersfield. And yes I’ve done this route more than once as well. It takes almost twice as long to take the train as driving a car. It is cheaper now though. To get passenger trains in and out of LA would cost literally a lot of billions because LA is a valley surrounded by mountains and there are homes on those mountains. North/south bound freight goes way, way out of the way east first and building even adjoining tracks would also cost billions if it is even geologically reasonable. I think it should be done but it won’t because people here would just drive and high speed trains wouldn’t really be all that high speed because of terrain. Even given fuel prices it’s almost easier and cheaper and faster to fly.
TriassicSands
@Chris T.:
Thanks for that. I just read an article, after your comment, that points out that they are not necessary in all typed of EV batteries.
Good to know. Thank you.
Al
So the Indianapolis democratic city council did a study and decided to get rid of “Turn Right on Red” in the downtown tourist/commerce area. So naturally the state legislature, dominated by a republican supermajority, passed a law to prevent that from happening, as the legislature is want to do any time the city council does something that is too city-centric. Since democratic reading comprehension is superior to that of republicans’ (sorry, but I don’t make the rules of reality), they noticed that the republicans wrote in an effective date to the bill that gave the city a sweet spot of a few weeks to get the project completed. Of course our Republican State AG is shouting about a lawsuit, which I’m sure has nothing to do with his desire to be Governor and then President and then Ruler for Life.
Barney
A bit of an international comparison: Exactly How Far U.S. Street Safety Has Fallen Behind Europe, in Three Bombshell Charts — Streetsblog USA
The 4 European countries start off lower in pedestrian deaths (though they probably have quite a different miles driven/miles walked ratio, and their graph is in kilometres walked), but the deaths have continued to decrease from the 2008-10 period to 2016-18, when the American deaths went up. I would say that phone use and the potential distractions are about the same, and that SUV/truck use is significantly different in the USA.