News: Michigan AG Dana Nessel charges 16 MI false electors.
More news: Nessel referred this activity to DOJ in January 2022, but re-opened the state investigation earlier this year because federal authorities hadn’t filed charges yet. They still haven’t.https://t.co/WZe1ezjOh7
— Pete Strzok (@petestrzok) July 18, 2023
Adding to Dave Anderson’s recent post. Steve Benen, at MSNBC:
As 2023 got underway, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel made unsubtle comments about her state’s Republican “fake electors” from the 2020 election cycle. The Michigan prosecutor declared in early January that there was “clear evidence” to pursue criminal charges against the pro-Trump partisans who pretended to be real electors.
Nessel also explained on “The Rachel Maddow Show” that while she’d referred the matter to federal prosecutors, state charges remained possible. “That type of activity can’t go without any consequences,” the Democratic state attorney general said at the time…
This is the first time fake electors in any state have been criminally charged, and it’s unrelated to the civil case filed earlier this year against the Michigan Republicans.
These are not misdemeanors. Each of the GOP defendants has been charged with several felonies, including conspiracy to commit forgery, forgery, conspiracy to commit election law forgery, and election law forgery…
Trump's fake electors charged by Michigan AG in alleged 2020 election scheme https://t.co/yYCGqaLVfj via @freep
— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) July 18, 2023
The Detroit Free Press has a comprehensive listing:
Attorney General Dana Nessel announced felony charges Tuesday against the group of Michigan Republicans who allegedly participated in a scheme to try to award the state’s Electoral College votes to former President Donald Trump with a phony certificate in the 2020 election despite his 154,188-vote loss in the state.
Those criminally charged include a former leader of the Michigan GOP, a former Michigan Republican National Committeewoman and other ardent Trump advocates:
– Meshawn Maddock: Republicans chose Maddock to serve as Michigan GOP co-chair after the 2020 election.
– Kathy Berden: In 2015, the state committee of the Michigan GOP elected Berden as the party’s national committeewoman. The fake certificate of electors lists Berden as “Chairperson, Electoral College of Michigan.”
– Mayra Rodriguez: Rodriguez is a Michigan lawyer facing a complaint from the Michigan Attorney Grievance Commission filed with the Michigan Attorney Discipline Board recommending disciplinary action against her. The fake certificate of electors lists Rodriguez as “Secretary.”
– Timothy King: King was the lead plaintiff in a legal effort led by Trump ally Sidney Powell to overturn the 2020 election in Michigan.
– John Haggard: Haggard served as a Republican elector in 2016. He was one of the plaintiffs who brought a lawsuit in the wake of the 2020 election to try to name Trump the winner.
– Stanley Grot: Grot serves as Macomb County’s Shelby Township clerk.
– William (Hank) Choate: Choate previously served as the chair of the Jackson County Republican Party and chair of the Michigan GOP’s 7th District.
– Amy Facchinello: Facchinello was elected to serve as a board member of Grand Blanc Community Schools in 2020.
– Clifford Frost: Frost previously ran for office and served on the Michigan GOP state committee.
– Mari-Ann Henry: A previous webpage for the Greater Oakland Republican Club showed Henry was involved with the group.
– Michele Lundgren: Lundgren ran as a Republican in 2022 seeking to represent part of Detroit in the Michigan House of Representatives. She lost her election to incumbent state Rep. Abraham Aiyash, D-Hamtramck.
– James Renner: Renner was one of two names that appear on the fake certificate of electors who was not originally nominated by the state’s Republican Party to serve as an elector in the event of a Trump victory.
– Ken Thompson: Thompson is the second individual whose name appears on the fake certificate of electors who was not originally nominated by the state’s Republican Party to serve as an elector in the event of a Trump victory.
– Rose Rook: Rook has held various local leadership positions with the Republican Party.
– Marian Sheridan: Sheridan currently serves as the Michigan GOP’s grassroots vice-chair.
– Kent Vanderwood: Vanderwood currently serves at Mayor of the City of Wyoming…According to a news release from Nessel’s office, each defendant has been charged with:
= One count of Conspiracy to Commit Forgery, a 14-year felony.
= Two counts of Forgery, a 14-year felony.
= One count of Conspiracy to Commit Uttering and Publishing, a 14-year felony.
= One count of Uttering and Publishing, a 14-year felony.
= One count of Conspiracy to Commit Election Law Forgery, a 5-year felony.
= Two counts of Election Law Forgery, a 5-year felony…
Much more at the link.
Elizabelle
Bring it on!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
👍💯
Oh, btw yesterday was my 28th birthday : )
Baud
Uttering and Publishing don’t sound like criminal acts. Curious what the actual crime is.
Y’all should schedule more zooms with Imm. Prosecutors are noticing.
Baud
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Nice. Happy 2️⃣8️⃣.
Ken
@Baud: It’s legalese for document forgery.
I had to look it up on google, and consider it significant that I got to “utterin” and it suggested “uttering and publishing michigan law”.
sab
I agree with Nessel. We are almost through an entire presidential term heading into the next election and nothing much has happened to any of these guys who tried to steal an election.
Baud
@Ken:
But all the other counts say Forgery…
Fair Economist
As usual, the Republicans accusations of electoral fraud are actually confessions.
Elizabelle
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Happy birthday week.
We have a lot of July birthdays. (Me too.). As Immanetize (birthday is Sunday) pointed out, November is a cold month….
Anonymous At Work
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
What is it they say about how the wheels of justice turn slowly, but they sure do grind?
Rocks
Can their sentences be consecutive? Please?
jackmac
“Lock ’em up” (please).
Tom Levenson
Seeing as uttering and publishing has been my life’s work, I’m in a heap of trouble.
Ken
After the Georgia case, where the Trump-paid lawyers didn’t tell their ostensible clients about the plea-bargain offers, I’d think that potential clients and lawyers would both be leery of such arrangements. I’d also expect judges and AGs to keep a close eye on them.
MisterForkbeard
@Anonymous At Work: Re 1: Yes, but nothing quite gets Republicans revved up like protecting other republicans from the consequences of their actions. OH, sorry I meant “political persecution”
catfishncod
@Baud: Reading a bit further, it’s knowingly sending the forged document in a legal action. Usually that legal action is tied to some financial fraud, not election fraud, but it’s the same from a nuts&bolts viewpoint apparently.
Defining this separately makes sense. If the forger and fraudster are separate people, you’d need the separate charges to cover each action.
WaterGirl
@Baud: hahaha
Baud
@catfishncod:
Thanks for doing to research.
M31
Tick tock, motherfuckers!
Martin
This is a gift to Smith. I wonder if he even needs them.
Tom Levenson
@Anonymous At Work: Channeling my inner Popehat–it’s never RICO.
That said, I have no idea if 16 people getting together to try to steal an election would qualify.
Martin
@Baud: I like how Canada calls driving in a way distracting to others, like giving them the finger, is ‘stunting’.
Like, you’re just making shit up now. Go look up the latin and at least make it sound like a law.
Dangerman
OK, I’m trying to think of a way to qualify exactly how stupid one would have to be to certify that you are the entitled elector for the Electoral College and not expect it to boomerang on you and seriously fuck up your life. Run with scissors stupid? No, I run with scissors all the time, so that doesn’t work. Go to the bank and say this is a hold up stupid? Closer, since you are asking for something that isn’t yours to have.
In the timeless counsel of efgoodman, fuck ’em, and I mean fuck ’em good and hard so this bullshit never happens again.
Almost Retired
Well now! This may serve as a deterrent in 2024 to Republicans in swing-ish states with strong Democratic Secretaries of State – who ran on ballot access. I’m looking at you Arizona and Nevada (and Wisconsin, although I think AG and not the SoS the top election official).
zhena gogolia
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Happy birthday!
zhena gogolia
@Baud: 😂
Old Man Shadow
Well, would ya look at that. We done found the election fraud Republicans was always on about. It was comin’ from inside their house.
geg6
Throw the book at these traitorous mother fuckers. I’m so deathly sick of these people.
Martin
@Tom Levenson: RICO applies to a very specific set of racketeering offenses, which includes counterfeiting. But the point of RICO is to indicate an entire organization, even if you can’t prove each individual member of the organization did the crimes. That’s why it exists – to get the boss who had the underlings do the bad act.
So would the MI AG want to indict the entire MI GOP as a criminal organization? As satisfying as that might feel, I think that’s a non-starter. Same for the federal GOP. Trumps campaign organization or some superpac might be a different matter
That’s why ‘it’s never RICO’ because you rarely want to take an entire organization down like that, and it’s a hard charge to prove.
geg6
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Happy birthday! 🎉🎈🎂
This is a nice present for you.
Urza
@Dangerman: It does seem stupid, but also no one was coming after them until now so was it really? This bullshit of playing nice when they commit crimes or else they’ll do the same to Democrats or worse later needs to stop. Bush Sr should have gone down for Iran Contra along with Reagan. Bush Jr had how many crimes even if lying us into a war isn’t actually one of them. Could have arrested basically everyone at the White House on any given day from 2017-2020 for a grab bag of known crimes that were published in the news.
Can’t keep a democracy if you let the riff raff bully you and don’t punch them back.
mrmoshpotato
Forgery around and find out, fuckers!
UncleEbeneezer
Baud
@UncleEbeneezer:
Not even a poop emoji?
Loser.
mrmoshpotato
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
To quote Bruce from Finding Nemo, “Good on ya, mate!”
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
Good for Nessal! I realize the Feds have been busy, but this can’t go unaddressed. These criminals need to pay for their crimes. I would love to see more action at the state levels where this kind of thing has been happening. These crooks cannot be allowed to do this again.
A Man for All Seasonings (formerly Geeno)
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): OMG – there are children here – I’ll watch my language.
Martin
@Dangerman: I think this ties back to how you fundamentally think the government derives its power. To the left, the governments authority derives from popular elections and the consent of the entire populace including those that don’t vote. To the right, the governments authority derives from the founders establishing a white Christian nation state, and as such, only the consent of that population as it relates to that goal counts. So given that the GOP electors were operating toward that goal, they perceived their actions to be reasonable.
We can argue whether ‘all men are created equal’ speaks to the former or latter, but given that slavery was legal and women couldn’t vote for a century and change, I don’t think the GOP are entirely unfounded in their view, where the left take that statement to be aspirational which we become more true to with every generation. As to the Christian part, that the Constitution is now an actual religious document for some Christian groups means that even if the founders didn’t intend that result, we’re now sort of stuck with the consequences of it.
There’s going to some fun chicanery with the growing USSC consensus of a right of religious freedom and the Constitution, but not necessarily all of the amendments, or any of the court interpretations being divinely inspired.
zhena gogolia
@A Man for All Seasonings (formerly Geeno): We had a 22-year-old help us at the bank today. He was astounded to hear that we had once used traveler’s checks.
Subsole
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Happy belated!
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
I hated travelers checks. I don’t want to hear any youngsters complain about anything anymore. They don’t have to deal with travelers checks.
Martin
@UncleEbeneezer: Interesting. Trumps post Sunday specifically mentioned the insurrection act, which I have to think he would only have mentioned if it was in there. Trump has a lot of:
“I’ve never even gone in the basement!”
“Sir, we never mentioned that the victim was found in the basement”
energy. He defends against information he knows, even when he knows he’s not supposed to know it.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: I remember going to an American Express office to cash traveler’s checks. But where did we go to pick up mail? Was that also American Express?
sab
@Martin: Does no one remember that the first continental congress had a kosher table? Not being sarcastic. There really was one, which is all I need to know about our Founders intending to found a Christian nation.
Dan B
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Happy birthday! I think I remember my late 20’s and, no, I’m not sharing stories. Enjoy.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Mail? I never had mail delivered when I traveled.
twbrandt
@Baud: on a recent trip to Norway and Sweden, I didn’t use cash even once. Never needed to – every where I went took credit cards and Apple Pay.
I don’t miss traveler’s checks at all – they were a total pain in the ass.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: We did when we were on a 3-month camping trip in Eastern Europe. But I can’t remember where we picked it up.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: What’s wrong with traveler’s checks? They were good enough for Jack Colton.
Martin
@sab: First off, I’m not old enough to remember that (Boy, tell me you’re over 249 years old without telling me you’re over 249 years old) but really that just serves as evidence the Jews have always been trying to take over the country.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
Today it would be Bitcoin.
SiubhanDuinne
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Hope it was a happy day and the start of a wonderful year!
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: Well, speaking only for myself, I never had any trouble cashing AE Traveler’s Checks and as far as I know AE always stood behind them. Also as far as I know, you need to first find a fellow sucker to cash in on bitcoin.
Almost Retired
@Baud: Travelers checks were horrific. The commercials of the era showed happy European shopkeepers and restauranteurs gleefully accepting them and inviting the traveler to their homes in gratitude for paying in such sophisticated currency. In reality, my experience on my circa 1982 backpacking tour of Europe was that travelers checks were met with a sigh and some muttered obscenities that I started to recognize in several languages. Travelers checks were paper bitcoin and Matt Damon is the Karl Malden of our day.
cain
@Baud: youngest BJer or is that you?
MazeDancer
Go Dark Brandon!
Using MTG as a voice over on a slick Biden campaign ad. Gotta love it!
Steeplejack
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Happy birthday! 🎉 🥳 🎂 🥂
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: well into the aughts, my local bank ATM card didn’t work in Europe. I can’t imagine going back to travelers checks now.
A few years after I switched to a bigger bank, I had I forget what business to take care of and I went to the American Express office in Paris to find it was no more. I hadn’t been there in years, hadn’t needed it, but I was still sad to see it gone. Like the International Herald Tribune, it’s a relic I wouldn’t use if it still existed, but feel a pang of nostalgia for
zhena gogolia
@MazeDancer: It’s so great. They edited out some of the snottiest tones of her voice somehow.
cain
@Almost Retired: ha! I used it in the mid 90s and it seemed ok for me when I was going around backpacking.
Yarrow
@zhena gogolia: Try dealing with travelers checks now, which I recently had to do. Only a large bank would even consider it (others told me no) and they had to get the manager to approve it. Banks have pretty much quit accepting them.
Almost Retired
@cain: I must have looked a little sketchy.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: Oh yeah, I always cashed them at a bank. Most people prefer cash so why not get it for them.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@zhena gogolia:
Never dealt with traveler’s checks, but I’ve heard of them. At my job, plenty of folks still use personal checks to pay. I have personal checks but rarely use them aside from major purchases (I wrote a check for a down-payment on my car two years ago)
@A Man for All Seasonings (formerly Geeno):
Lol
cain
@Almost Retired: Could be – nobody gave me the side eye – and hell I’m not even white :D
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Yarrow: We had all our money in travelers checks on our honeymoon (1980), and were glad of that when they were stolen because it was easy to get them replaced by American Express.
On the other hand, I remember another incident in the 80s, trying to use travelers checks in Washington DC. The shopkeeper asked for ID, I produced my NYS drivers license which at the time was a bit of cardboard with text on it, and he said, “don’t you have a real license?”
New York was a little late to issue licenses with pictures on them I guess.
martha
@zhena gogolia: yes! We (that is, I) picked up mail at AMEX offices in Paris, London, and maybe Zurich back in the day….yes I’m old.
Omnes Omnibus
@Almost Retired: I never used them to buy anything. I cashed a few at a time and used local currency. I thought they were kind of cool, part of the romance of travel and all that.. I also like vinyl records and manual transmissions. And I can tie a bow tie.
Juju
I’m kind of surprised that Mellissa Carone, the drunk woman who testified at one of the vote fraud hearings in Michigan, wasn’t on the fake elector list. She certainly seemed like she could be the type.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@OzarkHillbilly: That was a fun movie. What does the T stand for? Trustworthy.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@martha: We did that too, the summer after we were married. We spent 2 months in Europe, checking for mail a couple of time. It’s hard to imagine being out of touch that long now. On planes, I see people who have to call someone when they take off and call someone when they land
stinger
Immanentize Zoom call: Misunderstandings and typos are my own.
First question: How much trouble is TFG in?
Imm: Quite a bit. He’s in serious legal trouble. Side note: In the Oathkeepers trial, the judge went below the recommendation; prosecutors appealed the deviation DOWNWARD. They want that sentencing nailed down before it gets to Trump, so they know what it is likely to be if TFG is convicted of seditious conspiracy.
Luckily, the call is being recorded. I’m too slow a typist!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Thanks to everyone for the happy birthday wishes
Omnes Omnibus
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Belated HBD,
They Call Me Blue
@Tom Levenson: That said, I have no idea if 16 people getting together to try to steal an election would qualify.
Sixteen plus the people that rounded up the flock of fraudsters.
Ben Cisco 🇺🇸🎖️🖥️♦️
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Happy Birthday, youngun!!
Danielx
@Omnes Omnibus:
As long as you don’t wear a bow tie, you’re good.
MisterForkbeard
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I didn’t get to say it earlier, but: Happy 28th! Still a youngin’ with a lot of potential ahead of ya. :)
More seriously, it’s been cool to see you mature and grow over time. Keep at it, fella. And Happy Birthday!
OzarkHillbilly
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: I love it, it is so much fun, find myself quoting it on a semi regular basis.
“Ok Joan Wilder, how are you gonna write us out of this one?”
“Joan Wilder? Are you Joan Wilder? THE Joan Wilder???”
martha
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I know! I went to Europe when I was in college and sent my mom a couple of postcards over two months. Can you imagine mothers today “allowing” that? Yikes.
Almost Retired
@Omnes Omnibus: that’s surely exactly how they should have been used! But no one told the 19 year old version of me because the 19 year old version of me wouldn’t have listened anyway.
MisterForkbeard
@WaterGirl: If the Legal Zoom is still open, my afternoon meetings evaporated and I would love to listen in. Possible to still get a (very late) link? :(
Jackie
@MazeDancer: Chef’s kiss!
Oh, please please PLEASE run that ad on all cable and local news – especially Faux, Newsmax and OAN!!!
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: When I first came to this country that’s all I had some cash and some traveler’s checks.
zhena gogolia
@martha: Okay, that fits — my recollection was you cashed the checks at the same place you got your mail.
College kids who only heard from their mothers every couple of weeks, via snail mail — can you believe it?
zhena gogolia
@Juju: Oh, I forgot about her, she was really something. Didn’t Cecily Strong do her?
zhena gogolia
@Juju:
Glad you reminded me of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34-JCkVuKJ8
eclare
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Happy belated birthday!
MattF
You can talk about the RW bubble, but here it is, IRL, in a Biden-Harris ad.
Jeffro
1,110% this.
J6 should have been our country’s stop, drop, and ROLL THESE CLOWNS THE FUCK UP moment.
eclare
@OzarkHillbilly:
I watched that movie again a few months ago, it holds up and is still fun!
zhena gogolia
@zhena gogolia:
Maybe watch the real one first to make it funnier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYQm9H7tWI8
Jeffro
Btw Biden 2024 has released an ad with MTG “narrating” and I. am. dying. LOLOLOL
japa21
@Jeffro:
So you’re saying we should forgo all the rules of law that we have in this country? Glad to know.
CaseyL
@japa21: I think we have the laws we would need. Since Jan 6, I’ve been in favor of sending practically the entire GOP to Gitmo under the Patriot Act.
Kent
Traveler’s checks went out with the invention of the ATM. That was a LONG time ago.
Matt McIrvin
@Dangerman: I don’t think anyone involved in this scheme seriously thought they would lose. They figured Trump had all the power and that he’d be kind to them.
Matt McIrvin
@Kent: Traveler’s checks went out once you had reasonable assurance that you could use your credit card (or your ATM card) when traveling internationally. I was still using them on my big Eurailpass adventure in 1991. That was before the euro, too, so I’d exchange some for the local currency every time I crossed a border.
I still have a lot of trouble using my current credit union’s ATM card in other countries, actually. But the credit card works.
tobie
@zhena gogolia: I had friends who got their mail at the American Express office. I never used it myself but there was something reassuring knowing you could get mail there while searching for housing.
Matt McIrvin
@zhena gogolia: I think currency exchange bureaus in Western Europe would take traveler’s checks.
raven
@zhena gogolia: In 84 I went to LA for the Olympics and they had a big scare about counterfeit travelers checks and I had to go with my mom to her bank to cash them (at 35 years old)!
Omnes Omnibus
@Matt McIrvin: They did,
Matt McIrvin
@twbrandt: In London last year, credit cards were fine for everything except that cabs surcharged for them and preferred cash.
In Barcelona and environs this year, I used no cash and the one place where I was caught up short was PortAventura, a major theme park in Salou–my card was fine for everything except the ride lockers, which were 2 euros a pop and took coins only. I ended up stashing a lot of stuff in my zippered jacket pockets.
I was caught by surprise because I’d gotten used to American amusement parks going to a card system for that stuff. The Six Flags parks even refuse to take cash on site–you have to buy a sort of debit card at the entrance if cash is all you’ve got.
Old Dan and Little Ann
My wife and I used Travellers Checks in the late 90s or early aughts. Unfortunately, I don’t remember where the hell we were. Ireland?
Jackie
@Jeffro: Morning Joe will run it with hysterical laughter. TIFG does watch MJ – it’s like he can’t help himself – and see “his Marge” selling Biden’s accomplishments 😂
Jeffro
@Jackie: it’s just outstanding. sends a great signal to the GQP: “I am running, I will throw punches, get used to it!”
Manyakitty
@zhena gogolia: probably American Express. You could get just about anything there–kind of a combination of an embassy and a concierge.
Manyakitty
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): happy birthday! Hope it was great!
Manyakitty
@stinger: what a relief! I really wanted to join but there was no chance tonight. Hope there’s another one!
Jackie
@Jeffro: I hope Biden spends some money running that ad on Red states local evening news (especially in MTG’s district,) along with Faux and Friends, and Prime Time RW programs. Well worth the cost IMO.
Two rabbits
This was the previous weekend in Clare Michigan (maybe it was already discussed, I’m sort of out of touch w/BJ):
https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/kicked-groin-republican-downplays-party-feud-some-people-are-crazy
A county (R) meeting breaks out in a fight, police are called. Republicans in disarray! Good times.
Even better is when I googled it, there were at least two fights at party meetings so far this year.