Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

Never forget that he train is barreling down on Trump, even as he dances on the tracks.

White supremacy is terrorism.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Joe Biden can go out like FDR, not by dying in office, but by crushing the fascists.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

Republicans in disarray!

If West Virginia and San Francisco had a love child.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

“They not like us!” (that’s for sure!)

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. don’t touch it.”

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Monday Evening Open Thread: When Stubborn Stupidity Is Its Own Defense

Monday Evening Open Thread: When Stubborn Stupidity Is Its Own Defense

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It is a fact universally acknowledged — possibly even by Mrs. Pence — that TFG’s handlers picked ‘Mike Dense’ as their VP candidate because he was too dumb to question any shifty behavior, or to get ideas about trying his own little grifts. This character trait inadvertently served Pence well during the Jan6 insurrection; when surrounded by his Secret Service agents hustling him away from a mob literally calling for his murder, Pence retreated to repeating the rules he’d so painstakingly memorized. He became, for a brief shining moment, the hero we needed, if not the hero we wanted.

Nothing that has happened since that memorable day has been able to shift Pence’s stance, because stupid is also usually stubborn. He knows that he was rewarded for keeping his oath on January 6th; he retains a bedrock certainty that only a Republican should be allowed to be President. Ergo, the previous Repub President having failed a test so simple even Mike Pence could pass it, surely the Official Presidential Backup — Mike Pence — should be rewarded with the 2024 nomination. How can these misguided voters fail to understand what is so clear to Mike Pence?

Ed Kilgore, at NYMag — “Pence Is Finally Embracing His Role As January 6 Spoiler”:

… [Pence] has sought to take partial credit for the alleged accomplishments of the Trump-Pence administration without much discussing its bizarre culmination on January 6. The video with which he launched his candidacy in June did not so much as mention the Capitol riot or even Trump, for that matter. It’s rather like a Hall of Fame player writing an autobiography that doesn’t mention baseball. But since well before his formal announcement, Pence has trudged along the campaign trail earnestly trying to recapture his pre-Trump persona as an extremely orthodox conservative pol with a particularly close relationship to the Christian right.

Unfortunately for the would-be president from Indiana, the MAGA faithful did not for a moment forget his “betrayal” of Trump on January 6, and in the early stages of the 2024 contest, Pence has been in the unenviable position of being both universally known and heartily disliked among Republican voters. A recent New York Times–Siena national survey of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents showed Pence with a favorability ratio of 40 percent favorable to 45 percent unfavorable (by contrast, Trump’s ratio is 75 percent to 21 percent). The same poll showed Pence as the preferred candidate of just 3 percent of GOP voters. And a just-released Times-Siena poll of Iowa, where you’d think Pence would find succor in the state’s large conservative Evangelical population, gave him just 3 percent there as well…

So now this strikingly unsuccessful presidential candidate — who is struggling to join the seven rivals who have already qualified for the first GOP debate later this month — has become one of the stars of the MAGA-despised law-enforcement effort to put Donald Trump behind bars…

Reader Interactions

113Comments

  3. 3.

    Old Man Shadow

    Mike Pence loves America and the Constitution so much he will probably vote for a man who will destroy both for president.

    Liz Cheney is an evil supervillain, but by God, she’s at least an American evil supervillain.

  4. 4.

    HumboldtBlue

    DougJ wins the internets again.

    What does the success of “Barbie” say about American women’s lives? Josh Barro and Matt Yglesias drop by to explain.

    Oh, and after turning on ESPN, I see we are in the wonderful part of summer where we watch 11-and-12-year-old boys cry a lot in Williamsport, Penn.

  5. 5.

    FelonyGovt

    The monster they created really is out of control. It would be kind of delicious if it weren’t so terrifying.

  6. 6.

    WereBear

    If the never trumpers are serious about running a candidate with integrity I’m sad to say Mike Pence is actually their best bet.

  10. 10.

    Ruckus

    Mike Pence.

    Is he all there? Are the communication bits working? Does he understand English? Is his ego functional?

    So many questions – and not one of them deserves/requires an answer.

    The coattails he climbed on, for whatever reason, really did not work out well for him. But also he started from such a minimal place that it is to be expected that he’s got nothing.

  14. 14.

    Jeffro

    It is a fact universally acknowledged — possibly even by Mrs. Pence — that TFG’s handlers picked ‘Mike Dense’ as their VP candidate because he was too dumb to question any shifty behavior, or to get ideas about trying his own little grifts.   and would help run cover for trumpov with the evangelicals when the latter’s many, MANY character flaws kept becoming evident.

    fixed and all that ;)

  17. 17.

    dmsilev

    It is a fact universally acknowledged — possibly even by Mrs. Pence — that TFG’s handlers picked ‘Mike Dense’ as their VP candidate because he was too dumb to question any shifty behavior, or to get ideas about trying his own little grifts.

    Hmm. Needs a bit more Austen. How about “It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single moronic and corrupt candidate in possession of a nomination must be in want of an even more moronic running mate.”?

  19. 19.

    Jeffro

    I think it was the Post that had a piece a couple days ago about a former VP running against a former president for their party’s nomination, which has almost never happened in our entire history.

    One would think that might get a little more coverage…

    One would think they could delve a little more deeply into what that means for the party…

    But no, it looks like they’re one and done(!)

  20. 20.

    Brachiator

    A dozen Trump supporters approached Mike Pence’s vehicle as he entered his Friday event yelling, “that’s a traitor,” “you’re a sellout,” and “why didn’t you uphold the constitution?”

    The idiocy even gives “original intent” a bad name.

  23. 23.

    Ishiyama

    For some reason I am reminded of a line from Stephen Vincent Benet’s Book of Americans: “And as vice-President he sat, but men are seldom hanged for that”.

  25. 25.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    Dense recently disclosed his campaign raised a shocking low $1.1 million during the last quarter. He was vice president, a former governor, a congressman and with all those contacts and favors to call in all he could raise was a penitence.

    That woke him up to fact he has no chance and will likely drop out before the end of the year due to bankruptcy (like Scott Walker did in 2015 and Tim Pawlenty did in 2011) .

    Of course he realizes this is Dump’s fault and finally decided to take him down with him.

  26. 26.

    Jeffro

    @Baud:And take reporters off the “Biden is old” beat?  Pshaw!

    Now there’s an updated “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin” metaphor for us all…

  28. 28.

    Geminid

    I checked out a Politico article about second quarter fundraising. It showed that DeSantis pulled in $20 million, most of it early in the quarter. I think Trump came in about $17 million.

    Pence was 6th with $1.2 million, behind Scott ($5.9 million), Haley ($5.3 million), and Christie ($1.7 million). He really needs to have a good debate.

  29. 29.

    Scott

    This reminds me over and over again of driving through the Texas countryside after the 2020 election and seeing all the Trump/Pence banners hanging on the fence lines with Pence cut out.

  30. 30.

    Chief Oshkosh

    And a just-released Times-Siena poll of Iowa, where you’d think Pence would find succor in the state’s large conservative Evangelical population, gave him just 3 percent there as well…

    Which pretty much sums up conservative Evangelicals. They don’t care about the teachings of Jesus, they’re here for the hate and power. Not that Pence is crowding Jesus any, but Mango Mussolini definitely brings the hate, and certainly appears powerful to the stoopid.

  31. 31.

    Brachiator

    @Jeffro:

     a former VP running against a former president for their party’s nomination, which has almost never happened in our entire history.

    One would think that might get a little more coverage…

    We have also never had a candidate falsely claiming to be the incumbent before.

    Trump is seeking a restoration, not an election.

  33. 33.

    Viva BrisVegas

    As DeSantis works to make America just like Florida, it’s worth noting that leprosy has now been found to be endemic there.

    Those benefits of Floridification just keep on coming.

  35. 35.

    Jackie

    ”Judge Tanya Chutkan has been assigned extra security detail, reported CNN on Monday.”

    “”CNN has observed more security detailed … and deputy US Marshals discussed security plans for the judge on Monday,” the network reported, noting that the U.S. Marshals Service did not respond to press inquiries.”

  37. 37.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: The July 17 Politico article had some good news out of North Carolina. Attorney General Josh Stein raised almost $6 million for his campaign for Governor, and had $8.2 million total after Q2. Republican opponent Lt. Governor Mark Robinson raised $2.2 million and had $3.2 million in the bank.

    And in Arizona, Rep. Ruben Gallego outraised Kyrsten Sinema $3.1 million to $1.7 million. Sinema, who has yet to announce an independent run, has $10.8 million in the bank, “almost 3 times” Gallego’s total.

  38. 38.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Not a single one of the MAGAt hecklers of Dense has ever read the Constitution.

  39. 39.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Jackie: noting that the U.S. Marshals Service did not respond to press inquiries.

    This is called OPSEC, a concept that the MSM is totally unfamiliar with.

  40. 40.

    Ruckus

    @Jackie:

    Dense has political ambitions, has been/was governor of a conservative state and really, really seems to be able to live with a job that gives him very limited power and yet a possibility of ascending to a very powerful position that he could likely never win at the ballot box. And who else was at all enthused about being second place to ShitForBrains? At the time he was the perfect candidate for the job, useless, quiet, undemanding, willing to be eighth dog in the pack led by the head dog, his majesty ShitForBrains. Not a suck up and of almost zero consequence, who better?

  41. 41.

    Brachiator

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Not a single one of the MAGAt hecklers of Dense has ever read the Constitution.

    Fair point. It’s sad that they look to Trump, and Fox News, as the source of truth and meaning.

    They are hopeless.

  42. 42.

    gene108

    Somewhere there’s someone itching to drop this headline:

    “Will Joe Biden run on a unity ticket showing true bipartisanship, and nominate former VP Mike Pence as his 2024 running mate?”

  44. 44.

    Andrew Abshier

    Dense was the 6th Vice President from Indiana.  The most recent two were only slightly smarter than a box of rocks but managed to stumble-bum their way to the right answer on Jan. 6th.

  45. 45.

    Ruckus

    @gene108:

    Aww yes, delusion as an electoral concept plus. In a 2 party system the leader of one is going to ask the 4,872,347th entry in the other to help him lead the country. Somehow I just don’t see it.

  46. 46.

    HumboldtBlue

    I’m not sure if this was posted yet, but Trump really is having a really bad no good terrible month.

    Judge Lewis Kaplan has ruled that E. Jean Carroll’s lawyers can give the Manhattan DA’s office a videotape and transcript of the Trump deposition taken for Carroll’s lawsuit. That raises the chance Trump’s sworn testimony in Carroll’s case could be used against him as part of the DA’s criminal prosecution.

  51. 51.

    Ivan X

    I saw a “Kennedy 2024: Heal The Divide” poster in an office window today.

    Apparently, healing the divide means being a Democrat with beliefs only a conspiracy loving Republican could love.

  58. 58.

    WereBear

    I have tricked out a Fire 7 tablet as an eReader & some of the typing will be weird.

    Had to install an APK app for Scribd but it wasn’t bad. Kindle already installed. What also helped seal the deal was the low price point. Now with dark mode, and screen warmth by sunrise and sunset.

  60. 60.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Geminid: I’m sure trump has at least talked about it. His obsession with fame and his stuck-in-amber thinking about so many things, a Kennedy fixation would be right up his alley.

  61. 61.

    HumboldtBlue

    @Jackie:

    TIFG is on a roll!🤭

    Well, he is a fucking fat-assed salami looking baloney-faced disphit and salami and baloney go well on a roll. So there’s that.

  65. 65.

    cain

    @MisterDancer:

    That said – black twitter was AWESOME. Big kudos to the 16 year old kid who jumped into the river and swam across to kick some ass. For once, the white people went to jail.

    The hot takes from the community and their joyous commentary was so wonderful to read.

  66. 66.

    Kay

    A federal grand jury is investigating allegations of bid-rigging involving Gov. Ron DeSantis’ Department of Education, charter school operators and the control of a small North Florida school district. Federal authorities issued a subpoena to the Jefferson County School District in June seeking communications between district officials, charter school lobbyists and former top officials in DeSantis’ education department. It also seeks records relating to the department’s attempt to steer a multimillion-dollar contract to a politically connected company with ties to DeSantis’ former education commissioner, Richard Corcoran. The contract would have been funded by federal coronavirus relief dollars.

  67. 67.

    Danielx

    @Ruckus:

    Then there was the part about how he was going to get his ass handed to him in the next gubernatorial election because the Indiana electorate was tired of his dipshittery. Which would have been nearly impossible for an incumbent Republican governor in Indiana, but Pence was going to manage it.

    Trump gave him his sole chance at higher office, at the cost of whatever self-respect Pence still possessed at that point.

  71. 71.

    Jeffro

    @Brachiator: thanks, I think (since I already knew that?)

    I was looking at it from Pence’s perspective and thinking that the microphones ought to be in front of his face.  Tell the whole country why, if it comes down to you and Donnie on that last GOP debate stage, Mike…why it should be you?

  77. 77.

    Cheez Whiz

    It is the mother of all ironies that Trump picked Pence largely because he believed he was dumb and servile enough to follow orders, but when his big moment came Pence was even dumber than that. It was “unconstitutional” and that was that. Might as well asked him to worship a golden calf. Donald was denied by the Fundamemtalist mind in all its glory.

  79. 79.

    Geminid

    @Jeffro: Yeah, it seems like a long shot. But in certain ways, a Trump/Kennedy ticket makes sense. Trump is very much about branding, and he might like the idea of attaching the Kennedy brand to his own.

    For Kennedy, a campaign for VP would give him a big platform, and a real chance of being President some day.

  80. 80.

    Kay

    The backstory on the federal grand jury and bid rigging by the DeSantis Adminisitration is DeSantis took over a small majority AA district and privatized it– he sold the whole public entity off to his crony. The district is no longer owned and run by the AA residents – they’re no longer permitted to govern the public schools their children attend- DeSantis’ low quality hires run the district.

    Members of the Jefferson County School Board have been outraged for months, seeing the entire process as a way for the state to siphon more money out of a rural, majority-Black school district and into the pockets of the politically connected. The decision to hire a company to help the three schools — and have Jefferson County pay for it with federal coronavirus relief dollars — came from the Department of Education, they say.
    “I’m just going to be honest with you. It’s money,” Jefferson County School Board member Bill Brumfield said in an interview last month. “It’s money and it’s politics, and they are just trying to kick Jefferson County around again like a bunch of little country bumpkins sitting over there and knowing nothing.”

    Hoipefully this gets covered outside of Florida. It’s outrageous.

  81. 81.

    CliosFanBoy

    @NotMax: ​

      the Ghost reminds Grudge of his earlier statement to Fred that refusing donations to the needy would make them less needy and more self-reliant.

    Years ago I had a colleague at work argue that very point. He actually argued that the poor should pay a HIGHER tax rate because it would encourage them to not be poor.

    Why yes, he was a devout fundy “Xtian.” How did you guess??

  82. 82.

    Cheez Whiz

    @Danielx: i will always respond to an opportunity to promote the website of the late, great Doghouse Reilly at doghousereilly.blogspot.com which is somehow still up. He has chapter and verse of the Story of Mike Pence and it is fabulous.

  83. 83.

    Ruckus

    @WereBear:

    I regard reading as a way to get better understanding.

    Though when I read something I often don’t take it as absolute truth and see a need to overthrow the government.

    @Jackie:

    TIFG is on a roll!🤭

    Downhill and leaving a nasty wake.

  84. 84.

    Tony Jay

    Conservative Christian former Vice President can’t raise funds for a Presidential campaign because his Party’s voters openly hate him for not overthrowing the Constitution and installing a defeated candidate as unelected President-for-Life.

    You might think there could be a catchy political story in there that’s easy to write and informs Americans of issues they really need to be thinking about – but apparently every political journalist in the United States disagrees.

    After thinking about it for a tenth of a nanosecond, I’m going to come down on the side of them being the ones who are wrong. A used condom semi-inflated by the breath of an elderly dog already half-dead with canine emphysema before the Cartel’s enforcers put three bullets into him for knowing too much about the contents of the wrong bins would be able to write that story, so that’s the level of fail they’re choosing to aspire to.

    And yet they’re still a million times better than the UK’s political hacks.

  85. 85.

    Kay

    Also included was prominent charter school lobbyist Ralph Arza, a longtime close ally of Rubio and Corcoran who resigned from the Legislature in 2006 after using racial slurs during a drunken tirade. Arza has four relatives, including his brother and sister-in-law, working in Jefferson County for the company currently operating the schools.

    Jesus Christ.

    Oh, and, yes,that’s Marco Rubio up to his neck in to this stinking heap of corruption too.

    “Ralph has been an invaluable part of our team at virtually every stage of my career. Most consultants can help create a plan, but what separates Ralph is his ability to follow through and execute the plan.”
    — U.S. Senator Marco Rubio

    They’re literally robbing school children now.

  86. 86.

    Ruckus

    @Danielx:

    Pence has self respect?

    A measurable amount?

    He is a rethuglican politician who was VP to SFB.

    That’s self respect?

  88. 88.

    Ruckus

    @Tony Jay:

    Money buys strange things.

    Yachts worth a lot of millions.

    Absolute stupidity.

    Bad neighbors.

    Rethuglican politicians. (But I repeat my last line)

  90. 90.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    Hoipefully this gets covered outside of Florida

     

    Probably not. Florida is a small backwater state whose governor has no relevance to national politics.

  93. 93.

    Tony Jay

    @MagdaInBlack:

    In my mind, the dog crawls out of that alleyway and reinvents himself as a raspy, charismatically-scarred character actor in a host of Guatemalan crime-thrillers before achieving national icon status with his surprise Christmas hit ‘Me quitaron el pulmon pero aun respiro tu amor’ and marrying Rhianna.

    But that’s because I’m very, very tired.

  96. 96.

    Brachiator

    @Tony Jay:

    RE: Conservative Christian former Vice President can’t raise funds for a Presidential campaign because his Party’s voters openly hate him for not overthrowing the Constitution and installing a defeated candidate as unelected President-for-Life.

    You might think there could be a catchy political story in there that’s easy to write and informs Americans of issues they really need to be thinking about – but apparently every political journalist in the United States disagrees.

    The political media do not believe that a coup in the United States would be successful. And so they cover the primary as though it is just another typical political campaign.

     

    ETA. Alternatively, the political media believe that they would not be affected by the installation of an authoritarian regime in the US.

  98. 98.

    Jeffro

    @Tony Jay:

    Conservative Christian former Vice President can’t raise funds for a Presidential campaign because his Party’s voters openly hate him for not overthrowing the Constitution and installing a defeated candidate as unelected President-for-Life.

     

    You might think there could be a catchy political story in there that’s easy to write and informs Americans of issues they really need to be thinking about – but apparently every political journalist in the United States disagrees.

    Yup – what I was alluding to above.  Hard to believe, but no one (not in the GOP, nor the GOP-enabling media) wants to look at this thing squarely, much less call it out.

  99. 99.

    Brachiator

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I’m sure trump has at least talked about it. His obsession with fame and his stuck-in-amber thinking about so many things, a Kennedy fixation would be right up his alley.

    I would love to see Trump pick RFK, Jr as his VP choice. The Republican leadership would go nuts, but could they stop him? As you and others suggest, picking a Kennedy would make Trump feel as though he had finally conquered every foe that had ever made him feel small. Apart from Obama.

    And voter revulsion would result in a landslide victory for the Democrats.

  100. 100.

    Jackie

    @HumboldtBlue: So sweet!

    Our mailman delivered a doggy biscuit to our Sheba every day – even when we didn’t have mail.
    One fateful day, Sheba broke leash from the eight year old. Daughter ran home in tears screaming Sheba’s leg is stuck with another dog’s leg and I couldn’t get them unstuck! I’m grabbing car keys and our mailman shows up. He asked daughter if she’s ok and she repeated what happened to Sheba.

    He looked at me and said looks like I’ll be leaving a box of biscuits every day.

    Yup. 10 puppies lol

  101. 101.

    p.a.

    Mike Pence’s fly responds to questioning: “I’m surprised he had it in him to hold firm.  Seemed pretty soft to me.  You gonna eat that?”

  102. 102.

    smith

    @Jeffro: I’ve come to think that if there hadn’t been a riot on J6, and the vote had proceeded with Pence holding the line on the fake electors, the whole episode would have been written off as one of those GQP stunts where they push the envelope just to see if they can. After all, they do it all the time. It usually doesn’t work (threatening default) but sometimes it does (stealing SCOTUS seats). The whole fake electors plot would have been seen as just more  hijinks by those Republican scamps.

    On the other hand, I wonder if more Rs might have been prepared to vote to accept the fake electors, but chickened out after being terrorized by the mob. It could have focused their minds on what they were actually buying into.

  105. 105.

    LAO

    Judge Chutkan isn’t fooling around. Shortly after the government filed its response to the defense reply, the Court ordered both sides to agree on a date and time, no later than Friday the 11th for a hearing on the protective order.

  106. 106.

    HumboldtBlue

    @LAO: ​ 

    The Marshals have just beefed up the judge’s security team with additional personnel.

  112. 112.

    Anne Laurie

    @Cheez Whiz: i will always respond to an opportunity to promote the website of the late, great Doghouse Reilly at doghousereilly.blogspot.com which is somehow still up. He has chapter and verse of the Story of Mike Pence and it is fabulous.

    I, too, miss Doghouse Riley every time Mike Pence is mentioned.

    On the other hand, the last several years of national politics would’ve killed the poor man, if he weren’t already past being annoyed!

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