Headline of an article in The Orlando Sentinel:
DeSantis calls Trump supporters ‘listless vessels,’ drawing rebuke
I love this so much because DeSantis is getting the same treatment Hillary Clinton got for the “deplorables” comment. That incident, which proves no good deed goes unpunished, occurred when Clinton charitably suggested that only a portion of Trump’s supporters share his garbage views. She didn’t deserve the resulting maelstrom, in which she was accused of denigrating all Trump voters. Strictly speaking, DeSantis doesn’t either, but he’s a dick, so in a karmic sense he does.
DeSantis made the “listless vessels” remark in a safe-space interview with a Florida ass-kisser and alleged conservative influencer who runs a pro-DeSantis website. The point DeSantis was trying to make was valid — a cult of personality isn’t a sound basis for a durable political movement. But because he sucks at communication, the point was somewhat garbled:
“If all we are is listless vessels that are just supposed to follow, you know, whatever happens to come down the pike on Truth Social every morning, that’s not going to be a durable movement,” DeSantis said in a taped interview with the conservative website The Florida Standard.
“Ultimately, a movement can’t be about the personality of one individual,” DeSantis continued. “The movement has got to be about what are you trying to achieve on behalf of the American people.”
So, DeSantis wasn’t really saying anything negative about Trump supporters, but the listless vessels are freaking out as if he called them all mindless zombies, which they are:
I hope the drooling MAGA idiots hound Rancid DeMeatball to the ends of the earth over this, and I think there’s a good chance they will because, for a group that should be used to hearing themselves insulted righteously and often, Trump die-hards are the most aggrieved people on the planet. In the year of some people’s lord 2023, I still see “Deplorable” bumper stickers — I rolled my eyes at one on a truck I parked behind at the grocery store just this weekend.
Someone’s probably selling “Listless Vessel” stickers already. They would be perfect for a boat parade!
Open thread.
PS: The “listless vessels” thing will almost certainly come up at the GOP debate this Wednesday, and DeSantis will have to try to explain what he meant. That’s good because when you’re explaining, you’re losing! And that’s especially true if you’re snapping out an exasperated explanation like a whiny, unlikable, arrogant turd, which is the one key DeSantis sings.
Betsy
I love getting my news from Betty C.
Alison Rose
Such keen political savvy always on display with Ronnie D.
Also this made me laugh because when I first saw the quote, I was like “thanks that’s my band name now”
realbtl
Maybe he meant to say badly listing vessels?
Scout211
Oh, those shy, unassuming GOP presidential candidates. They’d love to rake the Trumpster over the coals and point out all of his ugly, but they just cannot.
For DeSantis’s political advisors to think up a way to insult Trump’s MAGAts instead of Trump himself is, well, just not that well thought out.
But go ahead and please procede, Governor.
trollhattan
I can’t be the only one immediately thinking of these Texas knuckleheads, listing on the lake bottom.
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/09/05/multimedia/05xp-boat-parade-pix/merlin_176626128_b9ac9855-7691-4176-9ee1-fea2cd9129f0-superJumbo.jpg
...now I try to be amused
For some reason I’m thinking of Ko-Ko’s song in The Mikado, “I’ve Got a Little List”.
trollhattan
Hey, just discovered Nitter browser extension works again, after Twi…whoever they are now broke it for us last week.
Parfigliano
I denigrate all Trump voters. They are scum. All of them.
Bupalos
@realbtl: It’s clearly supposed to be vassals. I haven’t heard the audio to know whether it’s being deliberately misheard or he really misspoke, but the context is pretty clear.
cope
I can’t bring myself to watch the Wednesday follies live but am so excited by the prospect of the clips and phrases to follow.
Other MJS
Those fancy words are so elitist.
Mai Naem mobileI
I don’t think MAGats will understand the term listless vessels. They’ll probably think it’s listicle whistles? Testicleless whales? Sinking titanics?
KrackenJack
HRC was being kind. It is actually a burning dumpster of deplorables. Floating in a cesspool.
eclare
@cope:
Same! I will not watch but I look forward to the clips.
Scout211
I’m not so sure about that.
MattF
It’s apparently a DeSantis stock phrase, according to Mark Liberman at Language Log.
bbleh
Ok, how ’bout this: on Wednesday they ALL make remarks that either ARE shots at TFG or can be interpreted — or twisted — that way, and the MAGAtariat take it upon themselves to go after ALL of them, and the whole thing devolves into a massive, thoroughly confused firefight (while TFG just sits there and smirks), and at the end they ALL look bad, MAGAts included.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: Listless vassals doesn’t make a lot of sense either.
Old School
Ronan Farrow’s New Yorker profile of Elon Musk has been published.
Scout211
In front of his TV, eating his Big Mac, fries and ketchup on the side.
...now I try to be amused
@Mai Naem mobileI: I initially guessed it was a religious reference, like “imperfect vessel”.
Mai Naem mobileI
Biden should show himself drinking hot chocolate out of his Dark Brandon mug with white marshmallows with tiny little ‘listless vessels’ stickers photoshopped on them.
Bupalos
@Scout211: I tried to edit after seeing it, but it isn’t showing up. He clearly says vessels and does a little hand gesture of swerving this way and that. I think maybe it’s a boat that isn’t “staying the course” like saint Ronnie said.
Tony Jay
STAFFER – (opens door) “Governor, are you ready for the debate?”
RoDS – “Listless vessels gaffe,
Campaign stumble miss the cut,
Sad Ron Casey gone”
STAFFER – (closes door) “The Governor needs a minute.”
dmsilev
I mean, I’m not a fan of top-ten-list articles and the like, so I guess I’m sympathetic, but at the same time Ron deSantis deserves to have his political career killed with every bit as much irony as the death of a James Bond villain, so him getting savaged by the MAGA zombies is a good start.
WereBear
And all this time I thought a cult of personality needed — you know — a personality.
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: Well I mean a vassal is someone that does whatever they’re ordered by a single lord and doesn’t have their own motivation, so I think it would make the most sense with the preceding part. But I watched it and he does a swerving hand motion, so I am thinking a boat with a wandering bow?
dmsilev
@Omnes Omnibus: Maybe his vassals are refraining from tilting at the lists? Good jousting vassals are hard to find, you know.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
He was in either the Navy or Naval Reserve, as a lawyer. Is it a naval phrase, or (I’ll admit I hope) a botched attempt to sound like and old salt
ETA: per wiki, US Navy, JAG, Lt Commander. He has a Bronze Star. I’m a political junkie and I don’t know that, but I do know about that sad commercial where he tried to be Tom Cruise. He’s just not good at this.
Alison Rose
@Old School: Oh man. If there’s anyone who would probably do a great takedown of him, it’s Farrow, but I don’t know that even he could get me to read more than a Balloon Juice post’s worth of words about Muskrat.
WereBear
@Mai Naem mobileI: I can see the zoom-in now!
I need to wear my shirt. Months ago, when Dark Brandon first appeared on the campaign store, I indulged.
bbleh
Re “listless vessels,” I’m pretty sure it really IS a sailing term. A listless vessel is one that’s sitting straight up (not listing to one side), meaning it has no wind in its sails, cuz wind usually causes a sailboat to lean to one side or the other (unless it’s lucky enough to want to go exactly the way the wind is blowing) and hence isn’t going anywhere. And living in Florida, I can see where he might pick up a sailing term.
(Not that I’m not enjoying all the fun being poked at him …)
linnen
That picture gives off strong Romero “Night of the Living Dead” / “Dawn of the Dead” vibes.
jonas
It was particularly unfair seeing as Trump voters never mocked or maligned (or routinely threatened with violence) Clinton’s progressive supporters.
jonas
That makes a lot more sense. They’re all part of the futile system.
RedDirtGirl
@MattF: and yet it’s such a blah phrase. It doesn’t roll off the tongue at all. Just one more example of what a terrible retail politician deSatan is.
Bupalos
@bbleh: mmmm… do a bit of sailing, and listing – as opposed to heeling- is as far as I know it reserved for issues of improper weight arrangement (and generally because of water in the hull).
Elizabelle
I never tire of that zombie photo. The Germans protesting anti-vaxx looked much the same.
M31
I keep hearing it as “listless wessels” in my Ensign Chekhov voice hahahahhaha
Bupalos
@jonas: It was political malpractice, but she wasn’t the first to step in that particular puddle of bitter, clingy, deplorable goo.
dmsilev
@Bupalos: Yeah, when I hear “listing” in a nautical context I think “hole on one side of the hull letting in water.” Heeling over because of wind is different.
Has anyone suggested to Ron deSantis that he try counter-flooding? You know, since he’s got a set of holes below the waterline on one side, he should blow a matching set on the other side to reduce his list. That way, he can sink on an even keel.
moops
What label was he hoping to use and somehow managed to come up with “listless vessels” ?
Trump’s followers are an agitated lot, plenty of anger and crappiness and violence in that crowd.
Betsy
@Bupalos: but listless would mean the opposite. Not listing to one side or the other. Without a list. Upright, because dead in the water.
Suzanne
If it’s not about you, then it’s not about you. But if you take offense, it’s because it’s about you. LAWL.
West of the Rockies
@dmsilev:
Who was the GoT character whose own dogs ate him face first?
rikyrah
China’s average retirement age is 54?!🤗😳
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8FBGJax/
Brachiator
@cope:
I was going to skip it as well. All of these potential candidates are listless deplorables, even Trump.
But I may subject myself to torture to see what kind of stupid questions the moderator asks.
Also, I wonder if any of the candidates, aside from Christie, go after Trump. And then, whether the candidates go after DeSantis.
I won’t care about any pundit commentary after the debate, but I will be curious to see Republican leaning voter polls.
Questions I would love to hear.
Should Trump go to prison if convicted? To all candidates.
Why do you hate black people, women, gays and transgender people? To all candidates, especially DeSantis.
Really. Why do you hate black people, women, gays and transgender people? To all candidates after they fudge the question the first time.
rikyrah
@Betsy:
Me too 😂😂
Bupalos
@Betsy: I mean I can see how logically that could make linguistic sense, I just don’t think that’s genuine authentic sailing gibberish. A boat on an even keel isn’t called “listless” even though it’s not listing. And we have the term “heeling” for the way the force of the mast with a sail full of wind tilts the boat. And AFAIK whenever someone references a boat listing, it means WTF is wrong with that boat.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: You can’t help yourself, can you?
Bill Arnold
@Scout211:
Yeah, i read “‘listless vessels” as a biblicalish way to say “cultists”.
Vessels in that sense are sort of very lightweight/imperfect avatars.
trollhattan
NOAA radar shows significant rain north of us, stretching from the coast range to the Sierra and Cascades. Fingers crossed the storm is generating rain and no lightning. A whopping 0.05 inch dropped on the house between for and six this morning, knocking a bit of dust from the trees.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bill Arnold: Yes, people are reading too much into it. OTOH, that’s why it’s a dumb phrase. Not because it’s insulting, but because it’s unclear.
cain
@rikyrah: gotta being the new generation online – so, I wonder if the retired folks will have a livable income afterwards?
Roger Moore
Strong disagree. He absolutely was saying something bad about them, namely that they have no direction of their own and mindlessly follow whatever Trump says. Maybe he could have chosen a better metaphor, but the underlying point he was making is unfriendly, so he couldn’t have made it inoffensive with cleverer wording. This is a classic Kinsley Gaffe: he said something true but impolitic.
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: It really is of a piece with Puddin’ Fingers well thought out and brilliantly played chess move here deciding he’d rather attack Trumpers than Trump.
Barney
@Betsy: Yes, but DeSantis is using it like “rudderless” – without direction. The word “listless” is derived from “without desire” (the “list” is related to “lust”), and dates back several centuries. The origin of “list” to mean “lean” for a ship is unclear, though list | Etymology, origin and meaning of list by etymonline suggests it might be the same root.
A literally “unleaning” ship is not a bad thing – it shows it has been loaded properly, and with a following wind, you wouldn’t expect a lean due to side wind. He has to be applying “listless” as used for people, and then it seems odd to introduce “vessels” into it.
Old School
@Alison Rose:
I just finished it. I’m pretty sure everything in it has already been covered by Anne Laurie, so reading Balloon Juice has you set.
bbleh
@Bupalos: @dmsilev: yes as I understand it it’s an OLD term, and “heeling” is indeed the modern term for leaning to one side on purpose, while “listing” typically is used for damaged (or poorly loaded) vessels. But the term “listless” also means generally “directionless” or “unmotivated,” like — yes — a sailing vessel that’s becalmed. I don’t think he’s using it strictly in the sailing sense, since he’s using it as a metaphor for people, nor do I know if there’s an equivalent term for “listless” that’s based on “heel” rather than “list.” But the point stands. I don’t think he meant “vassals”; I think he’s applying (or misapplying) a nautical metaphor.
different-church-lady
I’ve seen that photo a number of times, but this is the first time I’ve noticed the idiot in the Guy Fawkes mask in the back. That makes it just kind of a surreal chef’s kiss of violent ignorance.
Bupalos
@Roger Moore: Exactly. The funny thing is he’s so averse to attacking Trump so as not to piss of his followers that he really has no choice but to just directly insult his followers.
Not like he has a winning move I can see, but this is an entertaining kind of double-fail.
Baud
At the debate, DeSantis will call Trump supporters “ugly bags of mostly water.”
Roger Moore
@jonas:
IIRC, under the futile system, everyone is owned by someone else, and everyone else is owned by the king.
cmorenc
MAGAS are indeed “vessels”, but not “listless”. Indeed, they are volatile and rather “listful” toward anything dear Orange master tells them (look up the dictionary definiti8on of “listful”, as opposed to “listless”.
Betsy
@Omnes Omnibus: Now there’s an analysis that nails it.
Raven
We’re almost to Topsail Island on our way to the Outer Banks. I’m hoping for a listless vessel Friday for my offshore trip!
Kelly
@trollhattan: Smoke is thinning here in Oregon’s western Cascade foothills. Gentle west wind. I’m still hoping Hilary will vigorously stir the air.
Mr. Bemused Senior
Perhaps “empty vessels” would have been more apt. Nothing to do with ships.
Anoniminous
Is DeSantis aware that in a political primary it’s the person with the most votes who wins?
Scout211
@Roger Moore: @jonas:
Feudal system was futile, for sure . . . eventually.
Wileybud
@realbtl: I’ve always thought a listless vessel was one on an even keel. Which comes nowhere near to describing the erratic beliefs of your typical MAGA twit.
Bupalos
@bbleh: Oh yeah, I gave up on vassals a ways back…mostly because of his body language. I still think it would kind of make more sense because he’s really trying to say “we can just be followers of a guy, we have to be followers of eternal principles. Like… going to Disney and shouting about men having penises! Stuff like that. VOTE FOR ME YOU FILTHY TRUMP SLAVES!!!”
Captain C
I wonder how many of the people who wear such in honor of V for Vendetta know that Guy Fawkes was trying to blow up Parliement in order to (re-)establish a religous dictatorship with Catholicism as the Only True Religion. Kind of puts a different spin on things.
zhena gogolia
@linnen: Yes! Or maybe Shaun of the Dead. Is Bill Nighy in the picture?
Bupalos
mmmm…. for Trump voters, does it though?
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Are you tired, run down, listless?
Do you pop out at parties?
Are you unpoopular?
Well, Are ya? /Lucy
smith
I see Asa Hutchinson in a TV appearance brought up the subject of TFG possibly being disqualified under the 14th Amendment. Might be a fun time if he brings it up during the debate.
OverTwistWillie
Sounds like he was told no more money, because there’s no way to move core Trump supporters to Team Ron, and he went out and coughed up that hairball.
I doubt he or his wife are interested in working Iowa for the next four months on a motel budget.
Roger Moore
@Bupalos:
I looked up the etymology. It’s from an antiquated definition of “list” meaning to want or desire, e.g. to do as one lists. This meaning is cognate to “lust”. “Listless” thus means lacking in wants or desires.
The Thin Black Duke
@Captain C: Thing is, in the original comic book series written by Alan Moore, V understood that although he was a relentless force of vengeance against an authoritarian regime, he was also an artifact of that system which needed to be left behind. Moore was well aware of the dangers of romanticizing vigilantes.
bjacques
DeSantis is the uncrowned Prime Minister of the mixed metaphor.
Roger Moore
@Scout211:
It’s based on a quote from 1066 And All That.
Omnes Omnibus
Here is a pretty good analysis of the phrase
TL;DR: It’s fundie speak. Code that they will understand.
evodevo
@West of the Rockies: Ramsey Bolton…
Scout211
Oh. Well that went right over my head. Thanks for the explainer*. Never heard of that reference. So I learned a thing or two.
*sometimes needed for uncool jackals, like me. 😉
Baud
Of course, the big difference between Hillary’s comment and DeSantis’s is that Hillary wasn’t trying to win over the racists she called deplorable.
Baud
@Raven:
Haha. Sounds like fun.
FelonyGovt
Some asshole has a prominent sign up on a commercial building on a major street in Torrance (CA) that says: “DeSantis/Trump Ticket 2024. Impeach Joe, Kamala, Nancy and Chuck”. Unfortunately I have occasion to drive by it sometimes. Talk about a listless (and confused) vessel.
Raven
@Baud: Here’s hoping!
Raven
@FelonyGovt: My mom lived near Del Amo Mall!
Baud
@FelonyGovt:
That’s delusional even by their standards.
rikyrah
BWA HA HA HA AH AH AH HA
Mindless boobs is what he meant.
He just wants them to be mindless FOR HIM, instead of Dolt45
Roger Moore
@Scout211:
I knew it was an insider joke when I made it, so providing an explanation is par for the course. If you can find a copy, ideally in your local library, I would highly recommend reading 1066 And All That. It’s very funny, though I assume it would be even funnier to someone who received a traditional English public school education.
Baud
I should make more lists. My memory isn’t what it used to be.
jimmiraybob
The way that I would win the Debate for Trump is to have him helicopter to the nearest rooftop pad, then make his way to the arena surrounded by a bedecked praetorian guard, and ,when inside and in front of the cameras, he declares “I am fighting for YOU!” followed by his best Il Duce profile.
After which he is briskly escorted outside and back to the waiting copter to be whisked back to the greenroom ….. uh, I mean secret lair ….. dammit, I meant Mar a Lago ….. or Atlanta jail to be booked.
Calls would be sent to all the media just hours before the event. Who ya think they’ll cover?
Best professional wrestling event EVAH!
FelonyGovt
@Raven: This is on Hawthorne Blvd, just a little south of that mall.
jimmiraybob
@zhena gogolia:
Shaun of the Dead is the exact first thing that came to mind – a view from behind the pub bar.
Nearold
Is “listless vessels” polite-speak for reprogrammable meatbags?
Chief Oshkosh
@bbleh:
So…just another normal Wednesday?
Raven
@FelonyGovt: Yup, my brother and all my nieces went to Hawthorne High and my sis lives on 22nd St. South Bay Surfers Rule!
West of the Rockies
@Baud:
And what three cabinets will you shut down when elected? Commerce, energy…
Baud
@West of the Rockies:
Heh. If Rick Perry weren’t list less, he might have been president.
cain
I don’t know this woman – but I think BlackAziz is a upstanding person. I would love to see if we could give this woman, her child, cat and turtle some stability and not have her end up in a homeless shelter.
https://mastodon.social/deck/@[email protected]/110929170601806066
Betty Cracker
@Roger Moore: & @Bupalos: Not that I give a shit that DeSantis is being misinterpreted — hopefully the post makes it clear I find that delightful. But nope, DeSantis is definitely not talking about all Trump supporters.
If you read the comments in fuller context, you’ll see he’s referring mainly to the Trump-endorsing FL congressional delegation that accompanied Trump to Iowa to taunt DeSantis at the fair — reps like Matt Gaetz and Brian Mast who hump Trump’s leg every damn day — and Repubs who call DeSantis a RINO for running against Trump.
I’m not going to defend him again because doing so gives me hives. But this is a “basket of deplorables” type situation, IMO. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving jerk!
It’s also funny because the guy who runs the Florida Standard site is a tireless DeSantis sycophant, and he released the taped interview that caused all this blowback. He’s probably in the fetal position somewhere. Ha!
Almost Retired
A commenter on another site thought “Listless vessels” sounded like a little known George Michael B-side.
sdhays
@M31: +1
Almost Retired
@Raven: 22nd Street in Hermosa or Manhattan?
Redshift
It’s a stupid phrase (and it’s no surprise that Meatball Ron thinks it’s clever and uses it regularly) but from the context it’s clear he’s calling Trumpers cult members who mindlessly follow the insane commands of an orange loon.
It’s true, and at the same time they should be insulted.
sdhays
Trump should totally go get fingerprinted on Wednesday to stomp on the debate coverage.
sdhays
@Betty Cracker: It’s not right, just like “Al Gore said he invented the internet” wasn’t right, but since the press is going to do it, we can cheer when they do it to horrible people.
Redshift
@Betty Cracker:
Ah, I missed that. I agree that makes it even more hilarious.
Bupalos
@Roger Moore: Listless is fairly common usage and I’d say “aimless” is it’s exact synonym. It’s pairing it with “vessel” that makes it unusual and in need of some explanation. I think he means ships, and it’s “ships that just don’t know where they’re going, just aimlessly wandering about the water” which is bad because they never deliver their cargo of liberal people to the gas chambers like they should.
sdhays
@Baud: LOL.
Raven
@Almost Retired: Hawthorne but a Del Aire address.
catclub
There are obviously fans of this approach which George Orwell characterized as “Yesterday we were
aligned with EastAsia, today we are at ware with EastAsia. We have always been at war with EastAsia.”
So I guess mindlessly following the latest diktat from dear leader is an ethos?
Raven
@Almost Retired: Oops 121st !
Bupalos
@Baud: Right she was explaining that those people can be won over, while personally demonstrating how not to do it.
“So on the off chance that you’re not a irredeemable bigot in several ways, can I interest you in this Hillary 2016 button?
UncleEbeneezer
@FelonyGovt: Wonder if this loser is somehow involved:
I got into it with him at an LA BoS meeting where he and his fellow Nazis were there to protest public funds to defend Undocumented LA residents being arrested by ICE. Real asshole, that one.
different-church-lady
@Redshift:
You gotta keep in mind the only problem DeSantis has with any of them is that they’re not his vessels.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus:
Barbara
What makes DeSantis think Trump’s “vessels” are interested in being part of a “larger” movement?
I assume he meant vessel in the biblical sense — someone who carries forward an inspired mission or message, but it’s also possible he was mixing metaphors.
different-church-lady
@FelonyGovt:
Was it hand-drawn in Sharpie?
trollhattan
@Bupalos:
“Give me Shiftless for five-hundred, Alex.”
rikyrah
I admit, I’ve been watching it on TikTok.
I told Peanut that instead of investing in the local Black population, which in Alabama, is close to 30%, they took the other route of keeping it White by getting out- of-state students and giving them phucking MERIT scholarships.
#BamaRush shows what’s wrong with public higher ed
BY JULIE J. PARK, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR – 08/18/23 2:30 PM ET
https://thehill.com/opinion/education/4158660-bamarush-shows-whats-wrong-with-public-higher-ed/
Omnes Omnibus
Consider reading the link I posted above. It really might help.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus:
Jesus Ever-Lovin YouKnowTheRest… if somehow DeSantis ever does become president that’s the kind of shit historians are gonna put in books about the next holocaust.
different-church-lady
He doesn’t seem to understand he needs to court Trump voters away from Trump.
In fact, he doesn’t seem to understand anything but, “I won by a zillion points in Florida, that means people love my brand of fascism, crank it up!”
eclare
@Almost Retired:
Hahaha….that’s funny!
Roger Moore
@Bupalos:
I agree with the people who think DeSantis is using it in the Evangelical Christian sense, in which people are vessels (containers) for God’s will. It’s a lot like using dog whistles; he’s using a private language that people outside that group wouldn’t be expected to get.
cain
@sdhays: with stained fingers!
lowtechcyclist
@Almost Retired:
A parody of “Wooden Ships,” perhaps?
different-church-lady
@Almost Retired:
I’m never gonna cruise again
Listless vessel, got no motion…
karensky
@Betsy: Ditto!
Roger Moore
@catclub:
Say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it’s an ethos!
eclare
@different-church-lady:
LOL
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: Seems to establish that he uses it all the time and it’s intentional, but not the intent. It doesn’t really make sense to me to cast his usage in the biblical “thing to be filled and put to god’s purpose” mold. That makes a bunch of instances he’s clearly using it as a situation to be avoided as ambiguous.
JPL
@Bupalos: Ron uses the term because that’s what Casey uses to describe him.
lowtechcyclist
@Roger Moore:
Yeah, except that in that context, wouldn’t ‘listless vessels’ be an oxymoron? If you’re a vessel for God’s will, how can you be listless, unless God’s failing in some way?
different-church-lady
DESANTIS: “Casey and I heard this thing in church!”
ADVISOR: “Okay….”
DESANTIS: “Don’t really know what it means but it sounds cool.”
ADVISOR: “Okay.”
DESANTIS: “We’re both gonna say it as often as possible! It’ll be great!”
ADVISOR: “O-kaayy…” [digs resume file up from computer]
Roberto el oso
I can’t wait for the part where the moderator asks them to say something nice about each other.
If Trump is there he’ll probably hand out numbers for their wives (0 to 10) ….
I’m certain DeSanctis was aiming for something Biblical with that phrase (imperfect vessels, unfit vessels, etc.), but ‘listless’ can only be understood as amoeba-like creatures with no agency or thoughts of their own, and so he opted for what he thought was clever and landed facedown in ambiguity.
lowtechcyclist
@Roger Moore:
That line was a lot funnier before all the Nazis came out of the closet. I miss those days.
ETA: I’m not dumping on you for using it. On second reading, I realized it could come across that way.
stinger
Not only is the term “listless vessel” unclear in all the ways mentioned above, if he means a ship traveling aimlessly and without energy, which I believe he does, then he’s further mixing metaphors by saying they’re going to follow “whatever happens to come down the pike” — which is a ROAD, a turnpike. No seaborne vessels on a pike. Idiot.
different-church-lady
@lowtechcyclist:
Donny : Are these the Nazis, Walter?
Walter Sobchak : No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there’s nothing to be afraid of.
[Two minutes later Donny is dead of a heart attack]
trollhattan
“Get out of Belarus” says US embassy in Minsk.
https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FF4E_lpTXIAAJlmv.jpg
lowtechcyclist
@stinger:
But you could have a pike on a seaborne vessel.
Or you could have a head on a pike.
Or both.
trollhattan
@lowtechcyclist: Looking for deeper meaning in the utterances of Ronny Whiteshoes DeSantis is like searching for calculus solutions at a worm farm.
RaflW
I supported Hillary, but part of what flopped so badly in her interview was that average people don’t say “basket of deplorables”, so the turn of phrase was mockable.
“Listless vessels” fits that to a T.
Bupalos
@stinger: Maybe he means pike like the fish. Or what comes down the pike is the head that was on the pike, before it got rotted and soft and slid down?
Paul in KY
Probably already said a few times, but Listless Vessel is a good band name. Maybe a goth or emo band.
eclare
@trollhattan:
Great simile!
Ken
Somehow “listless vessels” sounds like a medical diagnosis from the 19th century, probably requiring leeches — though obviously not as severe as wandering uterus, that malady which led women to hysteria and other forms of madness, sometimes including defiance of their husbands.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: “Reprogrammable meat sacks” I believe is how one GOP operative said it.
Roger Moore
@lowtechcyclist:
I just fit so well; I couldn’t help myself.
And, no, I didn’t take your comment personally. I understood it as I think you meant it: Nazis are much better sources of humor when you aren’t worried about them taking over your country.
different-church-lady
@Roger Moore: It’s all fun and games until someone invades Poland.
stinger
@Bupalos: I think your work here is done.
Betty Cracker
@trollhattan: Yikes, that’s not good.
cain
@trollhattan: Will look for Adam’s update to see what is going on
Bill Arnold
@Bupalos:
Acts 9:15 (NKV1) “But the Lord said unto him, “Go thy way, for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.”
Perhaps a bit conflated with naval vessels in DeSantis’s mind because he’s a Navy guy, sort of. But definitely a vessel for deity Trump. IMO. (A second order vessel might be closer, since Trump is supposedly a vessel for God. Though Trump’s God is Trump, in the Gospel of Trump.)
rikyrah
@cain:
Gave a donation
rikyrah
@trollhattan:
Damn.
They gotta go
Karen S.
@rikyrah: I know of a handful of kids who got those scholarships. They all live in affluent suburbs of Chicago.
Roger Moore
@different-church-lady:
It stopped being fun and games a long time before the invasion of Poland. Fortunately for me, my grandfather got the hell out of Germany in February, 1933, and he was able with some difficulty to move the whole extended family out in 1935. They even managed to get some money out.
Elizabelle
Good luck with this, Georgia courts. Breaking from WaPost. (And really, a $200,000 bond for a man who owns a private jetliner?)
eclare
@Elizabelle:
How about being barred from threatening the DA?
Or is Fani Willis considered “community”?
gvg
@rikyrah: All kinds of schools recruit out of state because of the higher tuition. Given Bama’s reputation and those numbers, I would say racism does play a part for THAT school. However the reason it is so prevalent now nationwide is that states no longer give their own state schools much money for each in state student that goes. You see, the “in state” tuition rate is actually reflecting a subsidy although it’s not exact. 50 years ago, many states paid most of the tuition and local kids got a bargain. That changed over time, and it did not change evenly. Some states still pay pretty well, others pay almost nothing. this means that in state tuition can vary ALOT even in two states right next to each other with similar costs of living. The more time the trend continues, the more the difference. The last time I researched it Florida and Texas had the best in state rates and Michigan had really high costs, so high that some of their students found Florida’s out of state cheaper than Michigan’s in state. Some states also have different costs for different in state schools.
When the schools run short of money, they look for how they can raise more. In Florida and many other states, the tuition rates are set by the legislature. In state parents are voters who get mad. Out of state parents aren’t. Legislatures usually allow out of state tuition to get raised.
Attracting a certain number of high achieving students who are National Merit allows schools to look good on National rankings and attract other students who pay.
Florida schools as opposed to the governor, try to get a good mix of students. We are still not as expensive as most states but not as cheap as I remember and wish we still could be.
FelonyGovt
@Almost Retired: Have you seen that big sign I mentioned? West side of Hawthorne Blvd, around or just south of Del Amo Mall… makes me want to retch.
FelonyGovt
@UncleEbeneezer: I bet that’s who that is! He’s the one who disrupts Ted Lieu’s local town halls, etc.
Another Scott
@stinger: +1
TIFG’s boat parades were playing “follow the leader”, flailing around, swamping each other, using their too-big motors recklessly, and causing all sorts of damage. They weren’t listless.
His metaphor was all kinds of wrong.
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
@eclare: I think she’s “community.”
Wonder how long until we hear the trial date Judge Chutkan sets for DC J6 trial. Clue: It will be well before 2026. Jebus.
Omnes Omnibus
@gvg: I wonder if the merit scholarships referenced are National Merit ones. Those come with somewhat objective qualifications, albeit ones that can benefit people of higher SES.
Scout211
Trump and his minions: “It’s not a threat of any nature, it’s aspirational thoughts of many natures.”
cain
@Elizabelle: $200k for a supposed billionaire – one who could easily raise 200k just from his shit followers? they would be happy to pay the bill.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
The reporting above suggests the reprogammable meatbags don’t find the phrasing especially polite.
scav
@cain: They’re maybe planning to make it up on volume?
WereBear
@Captain C: In my experience, none.
eclare
@Elizabelle:
I think Judge Chutkan is supposed to set the date August 28. IIRC, there is so much to keep track of!
Almost Retired
@FelonyGovt: No, but I’m heading to South Torrance now for a meeting, so I’ll look out for it. If I’m running early, I’ll stop and deface it.
ETA Instead of “Listless Vessel,” DeSpangles should have called them “Enervated Bateaux.” It would confuse them, and they might even think it’s a compliment.
Captain C
@The Thin Black Duke: Moore was, but some of his fanbois, not so much.
Salty Sam .
Dude, you’re gonna wake up eversor!
Bokonon
This is clearly bad news … for Joe Biden!
Elizabelle
@cain: That’s what I wonder. Can see TIFG plowing through that, and considering it chump change lost.
Villago Delenda Est
Nearly as bad as calling them “deplorables”.
Elizabelle
All this evangelical dogwhistling.
I wish someone would start referring to the De Santises as “thou” and “thee.” Antiquated terms for antiquated people.
Roger Moore
@Captain C:
I still can’t get over the Star Wars fanbois who dress up as the 501st Legion. I can almost see why someone might be excited by the Sith, especially with all the flaws in the Jedi shown in the prequel and sequel trilogies. But the stormtroopers are a bunch of punks who exist to be slaughtered en-masse. Even if you like the Empire (eewww!), at least pick someone cool from the Empire to emulate.
JaneE
I saw one suggestion that he meant “vassals” and misspoke or mispronounced it. It would make sense, or at least more sense.
cain
@rikyrah: me too!
UncleEbeneezer
cain
@scav: Maybe – but I’ve seen people who are worth no where near that and it’s like 1.2 million or something ridiculous.
JPL
@Elizabelle: Today he accused Kemp of being a goveror over a murder wave.
Wonder if he’ll do that tomorrow.
M31
lol latest NH polls put Desantis in 4th, behind Trump, Christie, and Ramaswamy
https://twitter.com/IAPolls2022/status/1693700513655652414
you love to see it
ETA: first comment links to a Elon tweet from late May saying “The attacks against DeSantis are not landing”
Hahahaha, what, Eloon? wrong again? who could have forseen that?
cain
@Elizabelle:
I get this vision of the “underground railroad” in reverse – racists and insurrectionists getting out of the country through private planes funded by GOP cash.
Geminid
I think Scout11, Omnes and others have the right interpretation of DeSantis’s cryptic metaphor. I also recognized it as fundie talk intended to resonate with conservative bible thumpers. They would be DeSantis’s natural constituency if he was capable of having one.
I guess DeSantis still hopes a win in evangelical-rich Iowa could be a springboard towards the nomination. But evangelicals are still in thrall to the reprobate Trump, and their preachers are willing to go along rather than be trampled by their flocks. So I don’t think DeSantis will make much headway with his fellow evangelicals even if he ups his listless metaphor game.
cain
@M31: I bet him being behind Ramaswamy especially with all those ridiculous videos that Ramaswamy has been doing or even shit like mass layoffs must really burn his gut.
lowtechcyclist
@trollhattan:
I’m not. I’m just questioning whether “listless vessel” has a clear meaning to evangelicals.
Scout211
@JPL: The murder wave he was talking about is the one that he blames on Fani Willis, but that Kemp is fighting hard against impeaching her. So, yeah, I guess that means that Kemp is partially responsible for the murder wave.
M31
@cain:
lol Tim Scott with 7% only 2 points behind DeSantis’s 9, it’s only a matter of time
Jay
@Roger Moore:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501st_Legion
It’s a club with more perks for members than just dressing up as any StarWars character.
piratedan
considering his campaign is in a “dead calm”, I would be just as happy to see him “run aground” in stormy seas. Other acceptable nautical phraseology would be to take a torpedo amidships or see his campaign become a virtual Marie Celeste.
RevRick
“Listless vessels” are fighting words to the Southern “Lost Causers” and Northern Copperheads, who see themselves as men of action. (And let’s face it: the modern GOP is the white guy’s party.)
One of the things about fascism is its denigration of education, thought, and reason as sissy stuff (along with a denigration of women). Another is its insistence that the enemies of the race/nation are simultaneously powerful and weak. How likely are those who have embraced the MAGA fascism to react with anything but howls of rage?
Jay
@Scout211:
Georgia’s only 22nd on the list of Murder States.
Scout211
Trump lied? Unpossible! //////
Jackie
@eclare: Yes, Mon the 28. This Fri, the 25, TIFG and his 18 codefendants must turn themselves in by noon ET. Since no one has of yet shown up at the jail in Atlanta, I wonder if the codefendants are waiting for TIFG to go first.
kalakal
@Roger Moore:
Guilty as charged. It literally brings tears of laughter to my eyes. I found it hilarious when I was 10 and still do over 50 years later
Roger Moore
@lowtechcyclist:
I think “vessel” is supposed to have a clear meaning. DeSantis is trying to build on that by adding the “listless” part. In fairness, some people do make up their own new term that way and manage to get it to stick, but they have far greater rhetorical gifts than DeSantis does. He just comes across as confusing.
Cacti
I would guess that 80% of them would need to reach for a dictionary to know what listless means. Mostly they’d be mad at you for using big words.
Ken
To know, know, know him
Is to be repulsed, repulsed, repulsed by him
And we are, and we are, and we are…
Jay
@Scout211:
I guess that Seattle and Portland didn’t rank higher on the list because they have been burned to the ground and nobody lives there any more//////
Dangerman
I’m not sure I’d say “listless vessels”. Dickish assholes? Sure
Jay
@Dangerman:
dickishassholesor
dickless assholes?
Geminid
@Raven: Are you taking the Cedar Island ferry to Ocracoke? That’s a nice ride!
Betsy
@rikyrah: This!!
Principles? Here we are analyzing it like he has principles, or like words have meaning.
It doesn’t mean anything. Trump has mindless followers; DeS wants mindless followers.
More Republican projection!
kalakal
@stinger: He’s going for the all important piscid demographic.
“Here in this creek in southern Iowa our reporters found that 7 out of 10 pike think Biden is out of touch with the needs of midwestern fish”
The FTFNYT ( probably)
Jay
@kalakal:
yeah, but what do the Muskie’s think?
A much more important and powerful picine demographic.
Dangerman
@Jay: I’m not sure dickless is a safe description; some of these assholes might Loreena Bobbitt themselves to show how proud they are of being dickless. Or, worse, just drop the pants (Hi Baud) and wave it around to prove they do, indeed, have junk, thus proving that being without phallus is a fallacy.
M31
“How a successful executive like DeSantis can fall from favored status to also-ran should give the Democrats pause in re-nominating Biden” — the NYT, probably
M31
“From riding high to crushed under the weight of a Christie juggernaught, DeSantis’s fall from grace should concern Joe Biden” – the NYT, probably
eclare
@Betsy:
Agree. It’s like trying to figure out what TFG meant by covfefe. Nothing.
“It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
Will S. sure did understand human nature.
Roger Moore
@Jay:
Seattle and Portland didn’t make the top of the list because Trump hasn’t been indicted there. He’s mad at Fanni Willis today, so he’s going to put her city at the top of the crime list. If he were indicted in Portland tomorrow, it would suddenly be the Portland DA who is responsible for the worst crime rate.
Betsy
@stinger: THANK you
eclare
@M31:
Spot on!
Geminid
@kalakal: Too bad Alaska Rep. Mary Peltola already sewed up the “Fish Family Freedom” slogan.
Mart
@Scout211: Atlanta is No. 11 in murders. My city is No. 2 but we try harder.
Baud
@M31:
“GOP voters rejected DeSantis’s ‘competent fascism.’ Will Democratic voters reject ‘competence’ too?” — NYT
Jay
@Roger Moore:
And here I thought Portland didn’t exist anymore because BLM/Antifa burned it to the ground.
kalakal
@Geminid: Oh well, with any luck he’ll have to settle for catching crabs
JPL
The trump mug shot is not released, so he could release a mugshot himself posed elesewhere. I am sure he wouldn’t do that. That’s the same with height and weight measurement, so he could leak his own copy.
Jay
@kalakal:
How do you know he hasn’t already?
Baud
Sad news
Frankensteinbeck
@M31:
They hate a loser, and DeSantis keeps losing. I reiterate: That pathetic jobber is the best gift Trump has ever gotten. Okay, second best behind that misogynist fuck Comey.
@M31:
“Why Biden might replace Kamala with DeSantis in 2024.”
kalakal
I am so looking forward to the Fl GQP pols treatment of Ron DePlorable after he crashes and burns. They’re a bunch of stupid, vicious weasels who have spent the last few years rolling over for him out of a mix of ambition and fear. In a few months he’ll be the lamest of vessels, term limited and covered in loser stink. Let the mayhem begin!
Bill Arnold
@Roger Moore:
Heck, they even have reactive “armor” that make any injury fatal.
Elizabelle
@Baud: Yeah, thinking of JEC and Rosalynn. They have lasted a long, long time. Very good people.
evodevo
@Roger Moore: Yep…those are Xtian fundie code words, that only the faithful will get…like “church planting” or “season of struggling” or to “love on these people” (???) or “slain in the spirit”
Madame Bupkis
@Raven: My first job was at Del Amo Mall. Ontra Cafeteria.
smintheus
@bbleh:
Yes, that’s the apparent meaning in the phrase. A boat or ship will list if it’s using its sails to chart a course, unless it’s just running downwind. So a listless vessel is either becalmed (doing nothing), or it is allowing itself to be driven wherever the wind wants to make it go. That’s a reasonable metaphor for voters/politicians who see their only role as fulfilling whatever somebody like Trump demands of them.