Suggested soundtrack for the post — a classic from the Dum Dum Girls:
Operation Find Out update — Yesterday, Connie Meggs, wife of seditious conspiracy convict Kelly Meggs, was sentenced to 15 months in prison for her role in the January 6 insurrection. I’ve been following the Meggs’ case closely because they live(d) in a nearby town. I am all too familiar with that type of big-mouthed Trumpy “patriot,” and it’s rare (and delightful) to see them get a comeuppance.
The husband, Kelly Meggs, was head of the Oath Keepers’ Florida chapter and also general manager of a Honda dealership. They had a nice little ranchette and a boat and a camper and a Ford F-350. These were not economically anxious folks, but they are dumb asses who lost their minds when Trump was defeated.
And since they’re the type who doesn’t think the law applies to them, they left a trail of highly incriminating texts and social media posts that led the feds to their door and gave prosecutors plenty of evidence to work with at trial.
Before her sentencing yesterday, Connie Meggs tossed her incarcerated husband Kelly under the bus:
While standing trial during her sentencing Wednesday, Connie Meggs denounced her husband’s actions related to the riot, telling the court that Kelly had hidden his “violent rhetoric” from her, according to Politico’s Kyle Cheney.
“He chose the Oath Keepers over his family,” Connie said, reportedly speaking in between sobs.
“I am so angry at my husband for doing this to me,” she added. Cheney reported that Meggs’ child and grandchild were in the court’s gallery and also crying at the hearing.
Meggs claimed that she was unaware of her husband’s violent text messages that were a key part of his conviction before they came out during trial. Court documents show that Kelly Meggs and several other Oath Keepers seem to have been provoked by Trump’s social media post in December 2020 to host a “wild” protest on the day of the Capitol riot, based off texts the members sent to one another in the days that followed.
“I was trusting my husband to keep us safe,” Connie said Wednesday. “He put his whole family in harm’s way … He has put me through so much hell.”
I think that’s all bullshit. Connie Meggs took “close combat training” with her idiot husband and dressed up in tactical gear to assault the Capitol Building along with the rest of the yahoos. They both conspired to hide evidence when they realized to their shock that, yes, the DOJ intended to hold locally upstanding grandparents and pillars of the community such as themselves accountable for trying to overthrow the damned government. But I don’t doubt that her anger at her present situation is real.
The judge was more sympathetic than Connie Meggs deserved, IMO:
Meggs faced a recommended sentencing guideline of 97-121 months, or roughly eight-to-10 years, in prison. Mehta made it clear he felt that guideline was “overly harsh” and he would be varying downward significantly as he has in other Jan. 6 cases. But he also said he felt Meggs, though obviously remorseful about the devastating effect the arrest of her and her husband have had on their family, hadn’t entirely taken to heart what she’d done on Jan. 6.
“The decisions that were made that day were also your decisions,” Mehta said. “You decided to come to Washington with a truck full of guns. You decided to go up those steps. You decided to follow Kelly Meggs into Speaker Pelosi’s suite.”
Ultimately, Mehta sentenced Meggs to 15 months in prison and three years of supervised release. She will also have to pay $500 in restitution. Mehta granted a request from Woodward to recommend she be placed at the minimum security facility at FCI Coleman in Florida. According to Bureau of Prisons records, as of Wednesday her husband Kelly Meggs was at the federal detention center in Philadelphia.
Mehta allowed Meggs, who traveled to the hearing Wednesday with her son and two grandchildren, to return home on her current conditions of release and self-report to the Bureau of Prisons at a later date.
I hope she has to report soon. It pisses me off that the bailiff didn’t haul her off to begin the sentence immediately.
This isn’t usually like me — I generally think our justice system is far too punitive. And I don’t seriously think Connie Meggs poses a risk to the community. But #1, deterrence is a thing, and #2, fuck these people.
Open thread.
Old School
Time to announce her candidacy to push off the sentence serving until 2025!
MattF
Proud Boy Finds Out.
UncleEbeneezer
In other FO news (I know others have posted already, but it feels like it belongs in this post/thread):
oldster
From what I read, deterrence is *working*.
The right-wing forums are now terrified of FBI/DOJ infiltration and “entrapment”, to the extent that if one person gets on and starts agitating for direct action, others cast suspicion on their bona fides and suggest that the incitement is another trap by the Feds.
That’s good. Make them scared of their own shadows. Make them think twice three times four times about picking up guns and driving off to make trouble.
Of course the “entrapment” frame is mostly about making excuses (“I didn’t really invade Congress — I was entrapped!!”). But that’s okay — it still means that the arrests and convictions have made them think twice, and shaken their feeling of white-supremacist impunity.
BruceFromOhio
Indeed? Try this on for size:
Seems about right. I see @MattF and @UncleEbeneezer got there too.
Alison Rose
Cry more, Connie.
MattF
I’m mildly surprised by my lack of sympathy for these people. They are actually getting what they deserve. As will Giuliani, Eastman, Meadows, et. al. And possibly even TFG himself.
BruceFromOhio
@oldster:
Music to my ears. Let the delicate fascist flowers go back to quaking in their camo and jumping at every noise. Or maybe try living a quiet life and not being a seditious asshole.
moonbat
I don’t care if she’s grandmother to twenty. She’d better go to jail for a while so her grandkids learn than domestic terrorist cosplay has consequences and don’t try it themselves.
Doc Sardonic
Judge Mehta is making a good case for legislation to make the minimum sentence under the guidelines mandatory, and only allow for upward adjustment.
LAO
One small nitpick: federal defendants always ask the Court for a recommendation to a particular facility. Most judges make the requested recommendations. In reality, it has no force, the Bureau of Prisons (BOP) makes the decision of where a defendant serves their sentence. There are a series of considerations including where the inmate’s family lives, the inmates security level that informs the ultimate decision.
leeleeFL
If you switch your reasons, putting “fuck these people” first, then we are Sisters forever! I want them to taste just a bit of the justice they have always demanded for others who might not have been anywhere near as guilty as they are!
LAO
@Doc Sardonic: Good God NO.
Jackie
Off topic but entertaining: Pudd’n Boots is/was on TWC being interviewed by Jim Cantor while doing a walk around in Cedar Key. Climate Change, Build Back Better and homeowner’s insurance issues were brought up. DeStupid was very defensive 😂
UncleEbeneezer
I’m gonna wait until I hear some people with expertise on sentencing guidelines chime in before I declare any of these sentences travesties of justice. Every time I have done so in the past I’ve found that my assumptions (and ones held by the general public) are pretty out-of-touch with how sentencing works, in reality. I would love to see every Insurrectionist locked up for life, but I know that’s just my emotional wish, not something based on the complexities of criminal statutes and their sentencing determinations.
dirge
I kinda figured this is where Kemp stood, but it’s reassuring to hear him say it. Per TPM:
Ramalama
I’m sorry what?
Outraged emphasis mine.
RandomMonster
It’s important that the worst of these jackholes face hard time counted in years, as a warning to aspiring insurrectionists. I was always bitter that those idiots who took over the wildlife center in Oregon didn’t see more justice.
sab
3 years of supervised release will be a real pain in the ass for her. A felony conviction will be really inconvenient if she ever intends to get a job (and with hubby locked away she will probably need to.) Can she ever vote again? Own a gun?
I do enjoy seeing these salt of the earth real Americans facing consequences at last. We don’t need to lock them away forever. They have already ruined their own futures.
Betty Cracker
@Jackie: That’s good to hear! DeSaster has a lot to answer for — he’s happy to rattle the begging bowl at the feds when it comes to disaster relief but struts around bragging about turning down IRA money that would have helped ordinary Floridians. What a piece of shit.
MattF
@UncleEbeneezer: Here’s Popehat on sentencing.
LAO
@Ramalama: Please see comment #11. Every judge does this and it’s meaningless. Judges have no authority over where a defendant is designated to serve his/her sentence.
linnen
Showing Trump supporters the same amount of sympathy as they have shown liberal supporters is an equitable balance in my opinion.
Doc Sardonic
@LAO: Not for all Federal crimes, just for sedition and its related crimes. Ms. Meggs should absolutely do the minimum, used to be we hanged people for sedition.
UncleEbeneezer
More FO should be announced shortly:
scav
Gramma using her children and grandchildren as props to entice charity while she demonstrates her own family values & loyalty by blaming her husband for her actions. Ahh, Heartland America Hallmark Special ending.
Brit in Chicago
“he also said he felt Meggs, though obviously remorseful about the devastating effect the arrest of her and her husband have had on their family”
“remorseful” is the wrong word here. To show remorse is to admit you did wrong, and say that you should not have done it and wish you hadn’t. There’s no sign of that here. She wishes that her actions had not had the bad effects that they did have on her family—well duh. That’s not taking responsibility
ETA: I love all these comments! BJ seems united in this!
LAO
@Doc Sardonic: I will never support mandatory minimums under any circumstances. You have no idea how much injustice mandatory minimums have caused and continue to cause.
Ocotillo
That galls me as well. The stereotype of a Trump supporter is they are some yokel living in a trailer with a bunch of pro-trump flags amongst the junk in the yard but there are a lot of very well to do people comprising his base.
Back in 2020, Ms. O and I rode through a neighborhood in San Antonio that recently made the list of one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the country and these estates were loaded with Trump/Pence signs.
If you go out in the country, you may see the trailer trash sterotype but most of the signs and flags are on large ranches and tracks of land.
Instead of going to some Ohio diner on a Trump safari, maybe the FTNYTs ought to go to some upscale restaurants to find the real Trumpers.
sab
@LAO: Ha ha. So that is how Larry Householder in convicted of the First Energy bribery in Ohio is getting shipped off to prison in Oklahoma. I wonder how good their air conditioning is.
JaySinWA
@sab:
I wonder if there will be (or already is) an insurrectionist wingnut welfare established.
sab
@Ocotillo: Ohio diners are not cheap. They have an upper middle class clientele.
dirge
Yeah, I feel the same way, but I’m pretty sure 17 years only sounds light because we’ve all been marinating in a popular culture dominated by Copaganda TV.
He’s 39 now. He’ll be 56 when he gets out. He’ll probably still be an asshole, but he won’t be the same guy who went in.
sab
@JaySinWA: Deterence might help there if the donors worry about RICO.
Doc Sardonic
@LAO: Assuming facts not in evidence. I know what mandatory minimums have done to folks that made a simple mistake or had a little too much weed in their possession and lost most of their productive years due to minimum sentence.
Omnes Omnibus
@LAO: Co-sign. Also, their greatest impact is on disadvantaged people and POC.
Llelldorin
I think my opinions here are colored by decades of being “an elite” in these schmuck’s rhetoric because I’ve got a Ph.D. in math, while all they have is a fucking tonload of money and property.
It’s probably for the best that I’m not actually involved in these cases — I suspect my objectivity here is lacking. Everyone’s arguing about years in prison and I’m mentally knitting and watching for tumbrels.
UncleEbeneezer
More potential FO to look forward to:
Tony Jay
Surely there’s been a mistake here. These people are white conservative Republicans, not smelly Marxist agitators or thuggish urban rioters. A simple textual analysis of the Constitution by a suitably independent expert (perhaps Citizen Thomas) would prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the Founders intended the laws of your great republic to protect the rights of politically-active citizens, not strip them of their liberty simply for embodying the same proactive patriotism as the fallen heroes of Lexington, Concord, and Bowling Green.
This, sir, is a travesty. Are we to believe that there are no gangbangers who could benefit more from a period of incarceration? None of the Portland arsonists are around to be deemed more deserving of a custodial sentence? Are America’s judges so in thrall to Woke dogma that that the only people upon whom the heavy hand of The State is allowed to fall are the innocent and the godly?
This day will truly live on in infamy, Sir. Inglorious infamy! The worst kind of all.
Andrew Abshier
General manager at a Honda dealership. Why am I not surprised he was a car salesman?
I’m sure the discussion around the table will be loads of fun for them.
Fake Irishman
@UncleEbeneezer:
Mehta has generally departed downward on both prosecution recommendations and guidelines — he’s generally known for that across the board according to Brandi Buchman’s reporting over at Empty Wheel. He’s also a judge who is extremely well respected by both defendants and plaintiffs across the board for how he runs his court.
Tim Kelly, who appears to be handling many of the other Jan. 6 cases, has also departed downward from guidelines — but he does tend to stick it to neoNazis.
Also, downward departures mean that these senior folks are still going to prison for years, it’s not like they’re serving 30 days in the Pen and going on probation for six months.
Ocotillo
@sab: Actually, you are right about that. These jackasses sitting in diners during the week have plenty of spare time and money. The real workers are pulling into convenience stores and loading up on breakfast and ice for their drinks in their ice chests on their way to the job.
Tony G
@Alison Rose: Apparently Connie Meggs really is inspired by her cult leader Donald Trump. Trump would throw his own family under to bus to save his ass, and Connie is ready to throw her husband under the bus for the same reason. Politics aside, these are toxic, worthless people — from the lowest cult member up to Trump himself. They worship Trump because of, not in spite of, his many character flaws. He’s just like them, but with more power.
ETtheLibrarian
While I might believe she was unaware of the content for specific text messages or conversations he had with others, there is no way in hell she didn’t know what he was up to more broadly speaking. She may have thought “people like us” don’t go to jail or suffer consequences for illegal actions, but there is no way in hell she didn’t know she was participating in shady things could go bad territory.
piratedan
never thought I would see the Dum Dum Girls used in a Balloon Juice post.
always like their blend of power pop/ethereal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBSs3-RfLKk
as for the sentencing, if we can send young black men and women to jail for drugs for decades, seems like we should be able to do the same for people who intended to do harm to the people inside the Capitol.
narya
In the best of all possible worlds, this would lead to a nationwide reconceptualization of incarceration, with the foundational assumption being that everyone has the ability, and therefore should have the opportunity, to improve themselves, to attempt to provide some kind of reparation for the harm they’ve caused, and to lead a productive life, even if, in some cases, it happens behind bars. (That is, I believe there are cases where I might not want to free someone, but I’d still want them to be able to contribute in a positive way.) Not everyone will take this opportunity. (Not least because of the amount of illiteracy, addiction, untreated illness, and untreated mental illness.) We do not, however, live in the best of all possible worlds in this case.
Jackie
@JaySinWA: Some time back – when MTG was loudly protesting “patriots” being unjustly imprisoned while waiting for their trials – I believe some sort of go-fund-me for the families of indicted was starting up. Don’t know if it caught on or was more talk than action.
eclare
@sab:
Yep. I have read where some people convicted for state crimes don’t take early release/parole because it is such a PITA to be “supervised”.
Ruckus
@LAO:
I agree with you but I do understand why some might think this should be normal. We have in some ways, gone through a major, eye opening time in our justice system. We see these people who attacked our capital, our government, with the intent to keep ShitForBrains in charge, after he was VOTED out (for being SFB)
For trying to actually overthrow the people, the government, us, so they could get their hate and stupidity on. I’d bet that not an insignificant percentage of citizens have at least had the thought that firing squads might be in order.
tobie
DOJ has appealed Judge Mehta’s 18-year sentence for Steward Rhodes. They asked for far more and believed Mehta’s sentence was too lenient. Connie Meggs’s 15-month sentence in a low security facility also feels too lenient.
Meanwhile Judge McFadden dismisses jurors’ worries about their information being revealed following Jan 6 convictions. The legitimate safety concerns of citizens performing their civic duty is treated as a trivial matter.
Betty Cracker
Most state prisons in FL do not have A/C, but Coleman is a relatively new federal prison, so I assume it does. FTR, I think it’s cruel and in some cases dangerous to deny people A/C in Florida.
ARoomWithAMoose
@LAO: Minimum sentencing + poorly written/poorly implemented “3 strikes laws” have been horrible.
I vaguely remember a western history of justice/incarceration section in one of those western civ undergrad classes, every time since the Italian renaissance when an honest look at initial offenses and recidivism was done, for the vast majority of humanity the sureness of being caught was far more a deterrent than any overbearing punishment if caught.
zhena gogolia
@Ocotillo:
We have that kind in our neighborhood, but also the other kind. The ones with nice houses tend to use discreet signs that you can hardly read from the street.
zhena gogolia
@sab: Bob Evans Farms!
LAO
@ARoomWithAMoose: Lol! I just made that very argument re: “sureness vs harshness” as an effective deterrent at my last sentencing. There are many studies. Needless to say, it didn’t go well for my client. But that easily could of been because of me.
Mai Naem mobileI
There’s some RW’r on Twitter who was at the sentencing. She’s calling her Grandma Meggs to elicit sympathy. She also says in a snarky way that Mehta made a comment on how 1/6 affected him personally. Don’t know if I believe Mehta said that but it would affect me if I saw a 1/6 kind of situation near my workplace.
geg6
@Alison Rose:
For real. Fuck her. Fuck her shitty ass husband. And fuck her son and grandchildren for not shunning both of them forever as traitors. I have no sympathy for any of them. I hope they all die in prison.
trollhattan
Does this link work? Yesterday’s “Daily Tar Heel” front page.
Is anybody listening?
Betty Cracker
@trollhattan: I saw that yesterday. Very powerful.
Barbara
Regarding the guidelines and the individual sentences, I think that it’s hard to evaluate because J6 was such an outlier event. For instance, Biggs ended up with a sentence of 17 years, rather than the recommended 33. I don’t know what the “base” sentence was, but the final sentence (actual or recommended) was the result of an upward adjustment for engaging in an offense that was considered to be a terrorist threat.
As the defense and the judge noted, normally such a threat relates to plans to perpetrate mass violence, and the underlying offense that triggered the adjustment involved Biggs’ destruction of the fencing around the Capitol. However, the forced entry into the Capitol was intended to confront and threaten members of Congress into fleeing, and clearly carried a threat of violent overthrow of a deeply held government tradition, which is the peaceful transfer of power. So while blowing up a building would cause a lot more destruction to life and property, blowing up our system of government has infinitely greater consequences.
I just get the sense that it’s hard for judges to calibrate the level of conduct — which was often (not always) low level violence — with the context, which was a very high stakes threat to the function of peaceful rule.
Also, remember always there is no parole in the federal system. Your sentence is your sentence, though you can shorten it a bit with good time and such.
Mai Naem mobileI
@zhena gogolia: here it’s the blue lives stickers and various iterations of ‘Support the US Constitution ‘ stickers.
Ruckus
@ETtheLibrarian:
She knew she was participating. But she likely thought she was being patriotic doing so.
Many people get blindsided by their own blinders.
They have convinced themselves that they are right no matter what and it’s only when their shit hits the fan that they reach the find out stage.
Chris
The thing that makes right-wing terrorism especially terrifying (and in a way, the thing that makes it “right-wing” in the first place) is the presumption of impunity that comes with it because of how many people in power are sympathetic to it and often willing to collude with it. They do this kind of thing because they believe, often correctly, that the system will forgive them for it. This is one of those types of violent crime that’s not over-policed but under-policed, and it makes throwing the book at them as harshly as possible imperative in a way that it isn’t elsewhere.
Ocotillo
@Betty Cracker: It is dangerous. Prisoners have died here in Texas because of lack of A/C in state pens. Leg just did a big property tax cut that goes to the ballot in November but will be rubber stamped. We have a huge surplus and while it took a few special sessions to get it passed, the state’s teachers did not get a raise and no funding was passed to put A/C in the prisons. Sadistic bastards.
Paul in KY
@Tony Jay: Pretty good. A demerit though for less than 2 usages of ‘woke’.
JaySinWA
@Jackie: The Gofundme stuff is small potatoes, a one shot thing that might raise a lot short term for a specific purpose. Wingnut welfare is more long term care for like [bloody] minded individuals that has institutional funding.
LAO
In other J6 news, another defendant filed a severance motion in the Georgia case. https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-asks-to-split-his-case-off-from-co-defendants-who-want-a-speedy-rico-trial
eclare
@trollhattan:
That brings it all home, the fear that a very vocal minority has put in all of us. Just to go about our lives.
Ramalama
@Betty Cracker:
Me too. As much as I want the seditionists to suffer, I am against jail serving as a literal death sentence.
I was recently in Marseille (France) and was at a local beach in which officers of the law were watching over their charges, lots of men wearing ankle monitors.
A few people weren’t happy about it but we all acknowledged that it’s in the 90s – 100s there and humid, and I’m guessing the jails don’t have any a/c.
Chris
@Ocotillo:
It’s worth noting that this completely conforms to everything we know about violent extremists. Osama Bin Laden was the heir to a super-wealthy family. Ayman Al-Zawahiri was a doctor. Carlos the Jackal was a lawyer’s son. The OAS types were senior officers or elite paratroopers from the French army.
One of the things the literature about this in my IR programs hammered at again and again is that people who jump headlong into political violence are usually not poor people.
Don’t think there’s ever been a hard conclusion as to why that is, but the consensus seems to be some form of “most poor and working people have more urgent shit to worry about than remaking the world, like putting food on the table and keeping a roof over their heads.”
khead
Don’t give me the babe in the woods routine Karen
Chris
@Llelldorin:
Conservatives and centrists in this day and age are working really, really hard at popularizing a bullshit definition of “class” where the only marker is whether or not you’ve been to college.
zhena gogolia
@Mai Naem mobileI: Yeah, the day after I put up my Biden-Harris sign in 2020, the people across the street put up “We Back the Blue.”
Tony Jay
@Paul in KY:
I was under the impression that its use was no longer compulsory for anyone Matt Gaetz isn’t currently paying to spit in his mouth and degrade him.
Ramalama
@LAO: OK. But isn’t the BOP also responsible for doing things like tossing prisoners into solitary confinement at will? Or is that a separate kettle of fish?
My mom rented out a PO Box and started writing letters to some prisoners who had been locked up for more than a year for … ‘reasons’ no one would confirm. The letters she got back from some guys were (rightfully) bonkers.
Chris
@Ramalama:
A/C in general is vastly less common in France (all of Europe, really) than the U.S. No idea what the prison situation is, but it wouldn’t surprise me if that applied there too.
People have been commenting for a few years now that that’s going to have to change as temperatures keep rising.
Mai Naem mobileI
I am normally for shorter prison sentences but Biggs should have gotten way more than 17 years. Same for both the Meggs. If there’s an instance you need to show deterence this is it. Also, I know this isn’t right but in the back of my mind I am figuring there’s a reasonable chance these people will get pardoned and I want the reporting on the pardons to state they got pardoned for a 20+ year sentence.
Kelly
OT: Ducks and ducklings via our local outdoors reporter from his creekside backyard. This blog always likes ducks.
https://nitter.net/ZachsORoutdoors/status/1697086560523747384
CaseyL
Watching the Proud Boys sentencing trial via Brandi_Buchman on nitter:
Rehl’s sentence now being discussed. I don’t know what Judge Kelly will decide, but he seems particularly disgusted that Rehl kept lying about committing assault even when shown a video of that assault. The government is asking for 30 years; Kelly is working with a formula that could mandate an even longer sentence.
LAO
@Ramalama: Different kettle of fish. I’m not going to defend the BOP, an agency that isn’t all that concerned about the inmates in its custody. I was merely trying to stem the outrage directed at the judge for recommending a minimum security facility. District Judges have no authority to direct the BOP to designate a specific facility.
cain
“our justice system is far too punitive..” [to non-whites]
LAO
@CaseyL: Judges don’t like perjury. But I’ll be shocked if he gets a substantially higher sentence than Biggs.
sab
@zhena gogolia: We had a Trumper caddy corner across the street from us put up a sign facing us instead of the street. Very weird.
We get along fine with the guys directly across the street from us, even though they put up a small Trump sign. They are just very sweet misguided evangelicals probably waiting for the Rapture. We still swap plants and such.
But the lady with the sign is on our bad people list forever now. She can push her own car when it gets stuck in snow next time. She was also throwing house parties after the bars were closed during early Covid before the vaccine,
sdhays
@sab: In Florida (and Texas), they hand out guns to you as you step out of the prison, no questions asked.
Ramalama
@Chris: Yep. Marseille fam all have a/c. Other fam in other parts of France … not so much.
But the a/c issue in my neck of the woods was similar. Quebec mountains not super hot (for very long – it gets hot here just doesn’t last) but all new homes being built have a/c. And we finally coughed up some cash to have a standing a/c unit in our house. Of course once we got air conditioning, the climate changed yet again and it’s not been hot here at all. Le sigh.
Betty Cracker
@cain: Seems like people who are outraged by racial disparities in the justice system come in two types: 1) those who want to see whites subjected to the harsh treatment people of color receive, and 2) those who think everyone should be treated as leniently as whites often are.
I’m in the latter camp.
lowtechcyclist
@LAO:
Most of the examples I’ve seen of that involved mandatory minimums that weren’t much less than the maximums.
I don’t have a problem with mandatory minimums that are, say, 20% of the maximum sentence. I have a serious problem with mandatory minimums that are more like 70% of the maximum.
Chris
@Ramalama:
Huh, just got back from Quebec. (The province not the city). Struck me as a nice place to be in the summer if you didn’t want AC all the time.
The cynic in me thinks right about when all of Europe has finished converting to AC, the gulfstream will collapse, and the entire continent will turn into Greater Scandinavia.
CaseyL
@LAO:
According to Buchman, Kelly set forth the guidelines he was working with to decide sentencing (he’s done that with every defendant so far), and the sentencing guidelines he’s using for Rehl call for “30 years to life.”
Granted, they’re just guidelines, but Kelly seems to think Rehl is a whole lot worse than Biggs (who got 17 years).
trollhattan
@Kelly: 100% adorable. Quite the brood, too!
trollhattan
@sdhays:
The Florida Parole Board has made acquiring a gun a condition for early release.
sdhays
@Tony Jay: …I didn’t realize Ron DeSantis was that strapped for cash.
Roger Moore
@oldster:
I said in a previous thread that there are three main levels of attitude toward law enforcement:
The key driving force behind the January 6th riots was MAGAs thinking they were in that first category. They could do whatever they want, and the police would either stand aside or actively help them. The riot did a lot to convince them the law did apply to them, and the prosecutions have pushed them into the “OMG! The feds are after me” camp. I think this is BS- they still get away with way more than they ought to- but it doesn’t hurt for them to be very afraid of putting a toe out of line.
sdhays
@lowtechcyclist: Or maybe the maximums are just too high. Is a large spread between minimum and maximum desirable?
geg6
@Mai Naem mobileI:
I felt 1/6 as a personal attack. So it affected me personally. It’s quite the personal attack for these thugs to try and overthrow my government.
rikyrah
@dirge:
He wants to run in 2028. He’s not getting attached to the Dolt45 clown car
zhena gogolia
@geg6: Me too.
Jeffro
They’re lucky they weren’t mown down right there on the Capitol steps and when trumpov ends up in prison, he should feel lucky that the government he tried to overthrow didn’t square this on the morning of J7
110% the same here.
Alison Rose
@lowtechcyclist: But some mandatory minimums are insane, especially for drug crimes. John Oliver did a good segment on this years ago. Don’t know if all the particulars are still accurate today, but I’m sure it’s still pretty on point.
Roger Moore
@sab:
Honestly, I hate this part of the system. I can understand some employers have genuine need to avoid hiring criminals, and some jobs really don’t match with some criminal backgrounds. But for most jobs, most criminal backgrounds just aren’t that important, especially if you take rehabilitation seriously. Making it impossible in practice for criminals who have served their time to get decent jobs just makes them more likely to reoffend.
laura
Count me in as a fan of Brandi Buchman’s trial coverage Oath Keeper and Proud Boys- sharp, insightful and just the sheer keeping track of all the goings on. Our carcereal state is an abomination, but I’m fine with appropriate sentences for the crimes committed and jurors convicted. They’ve collectively seemed to have been given every possible break and those who had public defenders had zealous advocacy. Many, have stupidly represented themselves, or hired attorneys who have multiple defendants which seems par for the course if your starting place was as an idiot. If, after a trial, you still believe in the rightness of your cause- incarceration awaits and you’ve earned it the hard way.
I’m bracing for a whole bunch of Chuck Colsons in a few years.
Ken
I can take a contrary position if you want, though just for the sake of argument (I agree with the rest of the commentariat). I think I’d start by bringing up Ethel Rosenberg. Or maybe Patty Hearst.
geg6
@Betty Cracker:
I could support either one. If given the choice, obviously the latter. But I’m okay with it if it’s the former. Either way, it should be fair.
Scout211
O/T from Texas: Shitty, shitty news. :(
Texas Supreme Court allows ban on gender-affirming care for most minors to take effect Friday
Tony Jay
@sdhays:
He’s not, he just knows what Casey likes and he has to bring her at least one new video a week.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: The entire Trump presidency was an assault on my existence as an immigrant. He put a target on our collective backs when he came down from that elevator and announced his bid.
geg6
OT, but I read something this morning that I found interesting. And for all the jackals who have been lamenting how the writer’s strike has kept our late night hosts off the airwaves, there is something there for you, too.
Apparently, Stephen Colbert, Jimmy Kimmel, Jimmy Fallon, Seth Meyers and John Oliver are teaming up for a podcast.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/late-night-host-strike-podcast-spotify-1235575133/
I’ll be there for it.
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat: Hey there. You seemed to be absent. Good to see you back.
And yes. Huge FU to TIFG.
Elizabelle
@laura:
You think they will turn to evangelism?
Some people do tune into their better selves in prison. Malcolm X made good use of his time.
I think maybe Martha Stewart, too. And she gets more respect now, IMO, because she did serve her time, instead of the usual evasion. She wrote a book upon her release about how women could start businesses, because her fellow inmates were asking her so many questions.
Kay
Meanwhile, in the Right wing justice system:
They’ll need to surveil a lot of women to catch the volunteers, so really it concerns all women.
Alison Rose
@Scout211: This is enraging. And this:
So they understand and accept that intersex people exist even though they’re constantly screeching that THERE ARE ONLY TWO GENDERS AND YOURS IS DETERMINED BY WHAT WAS BETWEEN YOUR LEGS AT BIRTH, and they’re apparently okay with doctors and parents just randomly deciding what gender to make the baby, something which has often turned out awful later for that child. But they’re also okay with those kids getting treatments at older ages…but not trans kids? So if you need gender-affirming care for a physical condition, that’s fine, but otherwise no? What kind of sense does that make?
Not that I ever expect Republicans and transphobes to make sense, but it still boils my fucking blood.
sheila in nc
@Tony Jay:
@Tony Jay:
“Bowling Green” — [chef’s kiss]
Kay
I’m still learning about Joe Biden’s student loan reforms. My reading is that public service loan forgiveness workers no longer need to work 40 hours to qualify – they can be “full time” at 32. That’s sort of huge for parents of young children if I’m correct.
I hope we’re able to get past media with this student loan information and get it to voters. It benefits 20 million people but it’s hard to find.
RaflW
I think lying that she didn’t know what her husband was up to (credible is she’d stayed in FL. Possibly credible if she’d stayed back at their hotel while we went off like a mercenary to the Capitol, not at all credible since she suited up and went right along) should point to at least the 97 month recommended sentence. Does the judge think the minimum security detention plus 3 years of supervised release equals 60 months? Because even that is far short of guidelines.
Alison Rose
@Kay: Was glad to see my governor respond to this shit:
(Odd sidenote: I tried to use the embed function, but even though the tweet is still up and is public, I got an error message saying: “Sorry, we can’t create an embed for that. It may have been deleted or made private. Please try again.” WTF Muskrat?)
Tony Jay
@sheila in nc:
Let their sacrifice never be forgotten, although their names and the general circumstances surrounding the battle are, you know, rather hazy.
RaflW
@Doc Sardonic: I’m gonna disagree about that. I think it sucks that these insurrectionists are getting well below the recommended sentence.
But mandatory minimum times have a long tail of screwing black and brown folks. Especially when coupled with ‘three strikes’ laws.
I’m also a bleeding heart liberal who is long-term pissed that the US prison system is 100% punishment and 0% rehabilitation. So we may just see the prison-industrial complex differently.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: I read that earlier and was trying to figure out how it would work. If I’m in Alabama and plan to drive someone who needs reproductive healthcare to the closest place where it’s legal, it seems like I’m not conspiring to break any law — just the opposite, really, since the point is to transport that person to a place where the care they need is LEGAL. I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t see how the Alabama GOP AG’s argument holds water.
Ramalama
@LAO: Noted!
LAO
@CaseyL: Rehl gets a 15 year sentence.
Ramalama
@Chris: I’m in the province, not the city. It is indeed nice here. Even winter until February and then Spring can go fck itself.
Climate change is going to mess us all up. Last year we had a derecho that almost wiped us out — hurricane type weather in the mountains.
Honestly I don’t know how Floridians and people in the Caribbeans don’t have on-going PTSD from hurricanes.
Scout211
@Alison Rose: Thanks. I tried to embed that Newsom tweet/X and got the error notice this morning. For every single tweet/X I was trying to embed I got the error notice. I was wondering if we now are blocked from embedding if we don’t have an account or if it was a glitch.
That was Newsom’s direct response the the Alabama AG.
Doug R
@UncleEbeneezer:
I’m not an expert, BUT my father was a social worker and a member of the parole board in Canada for many years.
When you incarcerate someone, you want to lock them up long enough that they want to change-too little time and they go right back to the old life-too long and you end up with someone so broken you can never reintegrate back into society.
Balance that with the risk to society and you see the delicate balance they need to take.
My personal opinion is that 17 years is enough of a stretch to do some good, depending on the age of the defendant. This also depends on how far up the chain he was-ringleaders can rot in the joint IMHO.
agorabum
@oldster: I’d agree; the deterrence thing is working. The key for deterrence is “swift and certain.” While it hasn’t been all that swift for the sentencing, the investigations and first wave of arrests did move fairly quick, and the excitement and elation of the J6 mobsters turned to fear pretty quickly on January 7th. And every major “protest” event trump has wanted since then has been pitiful in size and anyone trying to organize something is accused of being in the FBI.
Makes me think of this classic shortly after J6:
smith
@Betty Cracker: I’m pretty sure that interstate commerce and interstate travel are the purview of the federal government, not the states. It also suggests to me that this law would pretty much set up a system whereby any woman who gets pregnant is essentially incarcerated by the state, as she is not free to travel out of state without risking prosecution. I’m sure there are 4 or 5 other ways in which it’s not constitutional that people who are actual lawyers could point out.
eclare
@geg6:
I listened to the first one yesterday, very good to hear from those guys. And, a big discussion of pants! Colbert’s mom ended up with the pants of Nicaraguan dictator Samosa.
HumboldtBlue
If you missed Kemp’s presser, here ya go.
cain
@Betty Cracker: I’m in the latter camp. I want to see the kind of thing they do in Norway. We do way too much old testament stuff – it’s really idiotic especially coming from a religion that emphasizes forgiveness.
Alison Rose
@Scout211: I have an account and was logged in, so maybe just another fuckup because he fired all the smart people?
Doc Sardonic
@RaflW: We can disagree on this but my argument is that after the verdict the information is sent to be evaluated for a recommendation on a sentence. If the recommendation comes back 5 to 20years the judge can do 5, he can’t do 3 years 6 months or 4 years 11 months. But narrow it to charges we are looking at with these J6 defendants. Mandatory minimums for other crimes have long done more harm than good.
cain
@Alison Rose: Soon red states will make it a crime to go to California!
Kelly
@UncleEbeneezer: I do not understand how the feds whiffed prosecuting the Bundys and fellow gangsters in Nevada. I am not a lawyer. A competent prosecution in Nevada would have prevented the Oregon standoff and the current Idaho criminality.
different-church-lady
NFOY (National Finding Out Year) continues.
eversor
@Ocotillo:
The dinner stuff is what really pisses me off.
I didn’t finish college. I’m white, straight, and a dude. Interview me at a diner! Fuck I live where you assholes do.
But that wouldn’t be fun. Because if you go to the diners here it’s not just me and I ain’t the type of white guy they want. It’s also middle class Black Folk, Hispanic day workers, Asian students, and Ivy League consultants all there. With nobody pitching a fit about shit. Everyone has shit to do and places to go.
Go to urban diners you idiots.
This is the famous one in the DC area though there are others Bob & Edith’s Diner – Restaurant in VA (bobandedithsdiner.com)
Omnes Omnibus
@cain: Religion should have fuck all to do with it.
different-church-lady
@Kay:
Yeah, but he didn’t even try!
LAO
@Doc Sardonic: Serious question: who are you suggesting makes the sentencing recommendations that’s sent to the judge?
rikyrah
@Kay:
Because, of course.
Omnes Omnibus
@Doc Sardonic: Why these crimes and not others?
Maxim
We have huge numbers of people in prison for the crime of being poor, especially POC, and for minor drug offenses. (Gotta keep those for-profit prisons raking in the dough, after all.) That part of the system needs a drastic overhaul, as do the laws for how people are treated after they’ve been released (the ability to get jobs, the right to vote, etc.). Minor offenses, especially non-violent crimes, should be treated with a focus on rehabilitation (what’s the legal term? Diversion programs?) rather than incarceration.
The J6 crowd are not small-time offenders. Trying to overthrow the government is not a minor crime. And there are still a whole bunch of angry, deluded people who think the insurrectionists were right.
Mrs. Meggs is a lying traitor. She may not deserve a massive sentence, but 15 months is pretty damn light.
different-church-lady
@UncleEbeneezer:
That’s only because nowadays everyone is out of touch with how reality works, in reality.
narya
@Maxim: “Restorative justice” is another approach to what you’re talking about, though I am NOT an expert.
Alison Rose
@cain: Then maybe we’ll make it a crime for them to import anything from us. No more avocados or almonds or grapes or walnuts or a lot of other things for you fuckers :P
p.a.
I’m very very sorry
I got caught.I’m very sorry my husband
of many yearswhom I barely know, is a treasonous asshole.I’m very sorry
I felt the same way he didhe tricked me into going with him.trollhattan
Your ins are now all out.
Also, golfclap!
cain
Brianna Wu saying Joe is da man when it comes health insurance (I should put it on David’s thread too)
https://mastodon.social/@[email protected]/110984565314398476
eclare
@p.a.:
Perfect.
HumboldtBlue
@Elizabelle:
If you’re hanging with Snoop Dogg post-prison, you’ve earned your cred.
@cain:
She should really post it where people are going to see it, and mastodon ain’t that place.
Doc Sardonic
@Omnes Omnibus: Because these crimes tear at the very fabric of our nation, the attempted overthrow of our government. Jimmy with 10 grams too much weed being sentenced for trafficking and going for 10 to 20 is and has always been bullshit.
RaflW
@Doc Sardonic: I am not happy about how light some of the J6 sentences have turned out to be. But as a liberal, I still believe that policies and the laws that seek to enact policy should have (to the extent possible, since we’re talking about human systems and rationality is itself a tricky construct) a rational basis to support it.
If most mandatory sentencing systems result in a lot of bad outcomes, why in cases of sedition would these minimums be right to exist? I’m not just saying that to shut this down, but to drill in and see if such can be constructed.
Doc Sardonic
@LAO: Isn’t that the United States Sentencing Commission’s job?
different-church-lady
@Doc Sardonic:
Tragedy is when I try to overthrow the government and don’t get a Presidential Medal of Honor. Comedy is when you go to down the river for a dime bag.
Betty Cracker
@Ramalama: I’m not sure we DON’T have PTSD from hurricanes, at least those of us who’ve been significantly affected by them (which does NOT include me — I’ve only been inconvenienced a few times).
One college friend helped his dad hold a heavy, wet mattress up against a broken window for hours during Hurricane Andrew to try to keep the wind from coming in and tearing their house apart. I know that affected him for years.
wjca
@cain:
Christianity emphasizes forgiveness. But we have way too many people who are ChINOs. (Christians In Name Only) In practice, they are all about the Old Testament; and only the most nasty bits there. At most, an occasional cherry-picked bit from the New Testament.
Geminid
@Elizabelle: After Martha Stewart was released she gave an interview to a reporter who somewhat apologetically mentioned the speculation about how she decorated her room while in prison. Stewart answered that while decorating was not allowed, she could still “practice the domestic arts: cleaning, polishing….” I was impressed; it was a very slick answer by a practiced communicator.
The other day you mentioned some worries about how Abigail Spanberger might do running for Virginia Governor in 2025. Republican former Lt. Governor Bill Bolling commented on this in a short Bearing Drift article last week. Bolling linked to a longer piece in the Richmond Times-Dispatch by Mark Rozell, but added his own appraisal:
Tony Jay
@trollhattan:
My ins turned into outs a long time ago. I’m now basically just one big out, like late period Ricky Martin or Mike Pompeo.
CaseyL
@LAO:
Yeah, I just saw that. I am astonished. Actually, I’m dumbfounded.
Wonder if DoJ will appeal these sentences, too.
Elizabelle
@Geminid: May it be so re Abigail!
I will look up the Times Disgrace and Bearing Drift articles. Thank you.
UncleEbeneezer
@different-church-lady: I get what you’re saying, but only virtually.
Elizabelle
@wjca: Chinos is good. That acronym should take off.
They are a problem. Hypocrisy that can be seen from space.
Doc Sardonic
@wjca: An old retired Doctor I knew referred to them as Christers. When my mother’s leukemia came out of remission after 40+ years he told her to avoid unfamiliar people, places, and crowds. He told her you especially need to avoid the Christers. This confused mom so she asked him what he meant. His answer was you know the people you go to church with, you are around them all the time so their germs a familiar to your immune system. So when the folks that only show up on Christmas and Easter show up, the Christers, stay away from them
LAO
@Doc Sardonic: No. they just formulate the guidelines. The US Probation department drafts individualized PreSentence Reports (PSR) for each defendant. That report is given to the court and disclosed to prosecutors and defense counsel, which have the right to object.
ETA: as I’m sure you can imagine, the process is slanted towards the government. A probation officer simply shouldn’t have the power your suggestion would give them.
rikyrah
@RaflW:
I will never believe that if the defendants had melanin they would be receiving these lenient sentences.
they phucking tried to overthrow the government.
Geminid
@Elizabelle: That was pretty much it for the Bearing Drift article. Rozell’s R T-D article was long and convoluted, and didn’t really say much except that Democrats will worry about holding on to Spanberger’s 7th CD seat. Which of course is why Spanberger gave Democrats a heads up that they will need to defend it without her.
Betty Cracker
@Geminid: True story: I dressed in an orange jumpsuit and went to an office Halloween party as Martha Stewart around the time she was incarcerated. On the way to work that morning, I had a flat tire on a desolate road near the county lockup. I was terrified the cops would nab me as an escapee and changed that tire quicker than a pit group at the Indy 500 could have done!
rikyrah
@cain:
That imagery is too funny.
BWA HA AH AHA HA HA HA
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: You could have stayed in character and polished the lug nuts after you cranked them on.
Doc Sardonic
@LAO: Well, if the PSR for a seditious conspiracy case comes back at 30 to life as Judge Kelly’s alleged guideline he was working off of for Rehl, then the judge is not going be able to give 12, 15 or 17. 30 is what you get, have fun with the appellate court.
ETA: This particular set of circumstances should be slanted towards the government, these assholes tried to overthrow it.
HumboldtBlue
Damn it, I was never able to do that, damn state of California!
Geminid
Never mind.
Uncle Cosmo
During the first of the great European heatwaves (remember the 103 F in London? the thousands of French elderly who died in stuffy apartments when their children went off for vacation in the last half of August?) a friend was sojourning in Paris subletting a 3-million-euro apartment – sans klima (w/o A/C). Couldn’t find a fan for love or money anywhere; had to sleep wrapped in towels soaked in cold water to get any sleep at all. Finally she flew back to Baltimore for respite from the weather. To Baltimore, in August!
Bien sur, mon ami, bien sur.
trollhattan
@HumboldtBlue: “non-recording purposes.”
Good thing computers don’t contain cameras and mics and such. If they did, somebody could accidentally activate those devises whilst in the courtroom.
Chris
@Ramalama:
I think the biggest ball and chain that’s going to prevent Florida from un-fucking itself in this century is the fact that the people who move there are increasingly the kind of people who can’t get PTSD (or even mild concern) over climate change.
People can dig themselves out of a lot of problems, but it isn’t going to happen as long as they refuse to even acknowledge the problem’s existence.
Chris
@Doc Sardonic:
I thought it was spelled “Chreasters.”
LAO
@Doc Sardonic: I expect the government will appeal these sentences but the US Sentencing Guidelines are advisory not mandatory thanks to a 2005 Supreme Court decision (Booker). I remember when it was mandatory-I know that a lot of you are upset by the J6 sentencing decisions- but it was much worse before Booker.
ETA: the criminal justice system is a hammer not a scalpel. If you think changes can be made that only effect J6 defendants, I’ve got a bridge to sell you. A republican administration would use any draconian measures put in place against protesters like BLM.
Elizabelle
Tee hee. Maybe a tip for Joe Biden: Clue in a New Yorker “Name Drop” quiz:
I think you will know who this is, mf-ers.
Omnes Omnibus
@Doc Sardonic: Where do you draw the line though? Some of the J6 people have been convicted of trespassing and the like. Mandatory minimums for them? It was in service of an attempted coup. I don’t think mandatory minimums ever make sense because each crime and each criminal is different. And if we want punishments to fit the crime, we should acknowledge that.
Bill Arnold
@cain:
LOL. True.
sab
@Kelly: Nevada outside of Las Vegas is pretty much the same as Idaho.
Cheryl from Maryland
@trollhattan: this is similar to me trying to get in touch with my spouse on 9/11. My office in DC was straight across the Potomac from the Pentagon. We didn’t connect (cell towers were overloaded) until we both arrived home in MD late in the afternoon. It was chilling.
Ken
@Elizabelle: King George VI, if I’m recalling The King’s Speech correctly.
Burnspbesq
@Tony Jay:
Nice to know I’m not the only one who remembers Bowling Green.
wjca
California is a whole lot less liberal than its image across the country. Part of that is because our Republican party went down the insanity rabbit hole early, so every significant office is held by Democrats. (I see suggestions that consistent losses will motivate the national GOP to become less radical. After 30 plus years, no sign of that here.)
Part of it is because the impact of “top two” primaries hasn’t yet worked its way thru all the various offices. As it does so, we start to see the more moderate of two Democrats winning in the general election.** But the view from outside the state hasn’t picked up on that trend yet.
** Previously, the Democratic primary essentially was the general election. But with a much more liberal electorate than the state as a whole.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@dirge:
That is very reassuring
Frankensteinbeck
@Kelly:
Wasn’t that straight up jury nullification? They got a jury that said “How dare you prosecute noble farmers for standing up to the evil federal government!!??”
eclare
@Ken:
Hahaha…
Burnspbesq
@Betty Cracker:
if they send her to Bryan, she can hang out with Elizabeth Holmes and they can commiserate about The Unfairness of it All.
Subsole
@oldster:
Paranoia strikes deep.
Doc Sardonic
@Omnes Omnibus: Personally, if it was within my purview to draw the lines none of them would have been charged with the simple trespassing and the like. Every damn one of them would be charged with sedition or seditious conspiracy and afforded the same treatment that is espoused on this blog regularly for members of the Confederacy.
Maybe that is harsh but that is where my mind is today. I have had a migraine on a slow simmer for the last three days and that tends turn my normal sunny disposition 🙄, a little sour.
Omnes Omnibus
@Doc Sardonic: We obviously disagree.
I hope you feel better soon.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Ruckus:
I think it was our commenter Roger Moore who said something really insightful about this a few weeks ago, wrt Jan 6ers recording themselves doing crimes is that they thought this was the new American Revolution and they were recording their acts for posterity. They fully believed they were going to win
Burnspbesq
@sdhays:
If that were true, you’d see a line of Suburbans outside every prison, full of FBI agents waiting to bust people on felon-in-possession charges.
I’ve never seen that. Have you?
HumboldtBlue
@trollhattan:
I wasn’t allowed to have any electronics open and operating, in fact, I wasn’t allowed to read a newspaper while proceedings were underway.
I had to make specific requests for photos to be taken in the courtroom during arraignments, rarely approved, and there was no recording, voice or photo, of any proceedings outside of that one photo request, if approved.
Elizabelle
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Much like the Nazis of the Third Reich, too. Meticulous recordkeeping.
smith
I’m pretty sure Biden is quite familiar with this trick. I don’t often mention my niece who works in the White House, but I’ll tell this one: A while back some media hack ran one of those periodic “exposes” of Kamala Harris’ managerial style, including the revelation that (gasp!) she sometimes says a naughty word. My niece confirmed this, but added she particularly liked working with Harris because her linguistic style matches my niece’s own. However, she also emphasized that when it comes to sheer talent for generating blue streaks, no one in the White House comes close to that of the old man himself. Knowing my niece, that’s saying something.
Elizabelle
@Ken: It was too easy again, huh?
schrodingers_cat
@Elizabelle: Hello! I was on vacation. Just came back.
Doc Sardonic
@Omnes Omnibus: Not like we haven’t disagreed before, but that is part of the fun, as long as it stays at dueling with sledgehammers in 12 feet of water. I value your comments and appreciate the thought exercise, unfortunately this J6 stuff is really effecting my rational processes. Will probably be better tomorrow after the remnants of Idalis finish clearing out. I always get these when we have hurricanes.
Baud
@smith: Very cool opportunity for her.
Chris
@wjca:
Honestly, blue America in general is a lot less radical than its image.
I mean, right off the bat, American big cities are ground zero for most of the biggest business sectors. They’re also, thanks to two hundred years of immigration, pretty much ground zero for the American Catholic Church. Which means both business conservatism and social conservatism will never not have a seat at the table. It just won’t always be enough of a seat to permanently overrule everyone else.
And then there’s the fact that blue states are home to a ton of middle-class voters which may often be liberal in a lot of ways but aren’t about to turn all of society upside down. Neither are the working-class voters, for that matter – whether they’re to the left or the right of the middle-class ones varies considerably by issue.
But if you listened to the media, you’d believe every American city was on fire every summer, and half their politicians were Weather Underground alumni.
kalakal
@Betty Cracker:
I also remember DeSaster a couple of months ago trying to block funds to Ukraine or at the very least stop funds unless Ukraine agreed to “peace talks”. The phrase he used was “they shouldn’t bite the hand that feeds them”. Yes, he’s a piece of shit alright
Baud
@Chris:
A quarter, tops.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Elizabelle:
That’s a good parallel
eclare
@kalakal:
I think he also referred to the Ukraine invasion as a “border dispute”
Elizabelle
@smith: Fabulous story. Lucky niece! She is going to be a tad more employable than people from the previous administration. Lol.
JaySinWA
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I disagree.
The motivation is accurate, they thought they were going to be seen as heroes, but the record keeping was haphazard. Individuals and a few groups saving souvenirs for posterity instead of institutional record keeping.
This is more like the lynching photos.
cain
@smith: I had to look up blue streak – thanks urban dictionary! lol – it’s great to hear that Biden can do a string of epithets. Excellent!
Dumb ass reporters – people have been cursing in the white house for a few generations. I don’t see what the big deal is.
Misogynistic bullshit.
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat: I figured it was that, or a 300 piece set of art supplies arriving.
smith
@Elizabelle: She’s quite an accomplished young woman. She got this job because she coordinated a part of his 2020 campaign, and her current job is a natural followup to that. However, like most WH jobs, it’s extremely demanding, and she’s kind of burned out now, and considering other jobs. She’ll stay, though, if it looks like she can move back into the campaign. She’s been intensely interested in politics since she was a teen, and I think campaigning is what she really loves.
JaySinWA
@cain:
Make that forever.
Baud
@JaySinWA:
I’m sure Andrew Jackson and Ulysses Grant kept their mouths clean.
Sure Lurkalot
@laura: Totally agree on Brandi Buchman’s coverage of the J6 trials. She’s really good.
She appears to have some affiliation with Emptywheel, whose site and Twitter feed I’ve been souring on lately. Marci Wheeler gets nasty at small criticisms and her long form blogposts can be totally inscrutable. There’s also a contributor there who is so anti Fani Willis…his short diatribes about her make me uncomfortable. Another white man case good, black woman case bad as far as I can tell.
JaySinWA
@Baud: Sure, alcohol is a good disinfectant. I’m pretty sure they swore by it.
Tony Jay
@Burnspbesq:
Any battle that features the last Charge of the Alaskan Camel Corps and the only recorded use of screaming mountain goats as incendiary artillery rounds deserves all the remembering it can get.
I salute the heroes of the Fighting 44th and 1/2. Semper Dirigentes Pedes
schrodingers_cat
@Elizabelle: My biggest set of pencils is 150 pencils!
I did get some art supplies before I left. Some nibs that I need to try out and some papers.
Baud
@JaySinWA:
Heh.
HumboldtBlue
And for followers of the USWNT, Julie Ertz has retired from the squad after 11 years and three world cups, two of which she was on the winning team for, including a breakout performance in 2015.
eclare
@HumboldtBlue:
Job well done.
Baud
@eclare:
HumboldtBlue always writes good comments.
mrmoshpotato
PREACH! Fuck ’em!
eclare
@Baud:
Hahaha…
Bupalos
Mmmmm…. I’m very much about the future in these cases and sentencings. If she’s seriously willing to go all “FUCK THESE GARBAGE-CAN MEN, THEY’RE INSANE AND TRICK YOU INTO DUMB VIOLENCE” then yeah, I’d consider letting her just roam free. Even if she’s lying about the past, as long as she’ll stick to that lie for the future… which she probably psychologically has to if she went and burnt up her hubby…yeah, I’d take the chance on that.
Sandia Blanca
@different-church-lady: “nowadays everyone is out of touch with how reality works, in reality.”
Nominated!
HumboldtBlue
@Baud:
HumboldtBlue is the absolute best. Everyone says so. Brilliant and very funny commenter. More should emulate his humility, modesty and all-around fantasticness and awesomosity.
Roger Moore
@Doc Sardonic:
The Supreme Court disagrees with you, and they get final say. IANAL, but as I understand it, judges are allowed to depart from the sentencing guidelines- they are guidelines, not hard and fast rules- but they are supposed to explain their reasoning for doing so. If one of the parties appeals the sentence, the judge’s reasoning for departing from the guidelines is part of the record for the appeal. If the reasoning is sound, the appeals court will probably sustain the sentence; if it’s lacking, the appeals court will likely overturn it.
Jay
@Kelly:
@Frankensteinbeck:
the Prosecution engaged in a “failure to disclose”, so the Judge ruled a mistrial.
Sister Golden Bear
@Scout211: An equivalent law in Missouri went into effect earlier this week.
Imagine if cis children were forcibly given hormonal treatment against their will. This is the equivalent of what trans kids are facing with forced de-transition.
mrmoshpotato
Fixed.
Jay
Don’t go into the water,……..
https://mockpaperscissors.com/2023/08/31/midday-palate-cleanser-1909/
Labs, am I right,………….
eclare
@Jay:
Wow
Subsole
@Jackie:
Given how conservatives operate these days, I would lay money that they took the collection plate and ran.
English, in all its multiform and fractal dialects, does not have the capacity to express how utterly broke-down, raggedy-ratchet and just generally trash this movement is, top to bottom.
It’s like the KGB, or Mobutu Sese Seko’s regime: Good people don’t go into that snake pit. And if they do go in, they either don’t stay, or they don’t stay good.
Jay
@Sister Golden Bear:
In New Brunswick, Alberta and Saskatchewan, the Con’s in those provinces have decided that going after Trans kids is a political winner.
What ever sick culture war or economic “idea” the Gropers have in the US, comes north, carried by the same parasites,
been that way since Lauffer,…….
Tony Jay
@HumboldtBlue:
HumboldtBlue? Which one’s he? That the one with the exaggerated limp? Talks like Harvey Fierstein gargled some paraffin? Always mispronouncing “lemonade”? Smells like gravy? That the one?
Yeah, I like him. He’d hide a body for ya, no problem. Not twins though, he’s got a bad back.
Kathleen
@UncleEbeneezer: What’s the matter with you???? There go the CNN/MSNBROC gigs!
ss// (I love your comments).
Roger Moore
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
I did say that, though I won’t claim it’s a hugely original thought. The thing that’s incredibly obvious about the whole episode is they never believed they would suffer any consequences. Even if they failed, the government wouldn’t prosecute them.
Roger Moore
@JaySinWA:
I think we’re on the same page. People live streamed themselves because they wanted to show off their involvement. You’re right that the record keeping was individual and ad hoc rather than institutional and planned, but the original comment was mostly about the motivation. Somebody asked why on earth the rioters would live stream incriminating video, and the answer was that they wanted to brag about their participation. This wasn’t some quiet thing they wanted to hide. They thought they were going to win and be celebrated as heroes, and they wanted to make sure they got appropriate credit.
Betty
@Ramalama: We have PTSD after a bad one and after that only during hurricane season, June to November.
Sally
@zhena gogolia: Perhaps we need “We are the Blue”.
Paul in KY
@Tony Jay: A good MAGA screed, circa 2023: “must include no less than two usages of ‘woke’, used as either a noun, verb or object” (I am quoting from their stylebook here). So, it’s not just me…
Paul in KY
@Ken: Ethel Rosenberg was a traitorous spy. The leader of the operation. Maybe her and her husband should not have been executed, but a LWOP (IMO) would have been a good sentence.
Ms. Hearst should have gotten more of a break for her situation in being the hostage of a band of crazy weirdos/thugs.
brantl
@Frankensteinbeck: That’s gubmint, the way they’re going to say it.
brantl
@Burnspbesq: Good god Burnsy, can’t you see a joke when it slaps you across the mug?