EXCLUSIVE VIDEO: Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi announces she will seek reelection in 2024 pic.twitter.com/jnjYHLtf3g
— MeidasTouch (@MeidasTouch) September 8, 2023
More power to our generation’s John Quincy Adams. Excellent story from the Washington Post [unpaywalled gift link] — “Former speaker Nancy Pelosi says she will run for reelection to House in 2024”:
Former House speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) announced Friday that she will run for reelection in 2024 for her San Francisco-area House seat, ending speculation about her political future after she decided last year that she would step down as the leader of the House Democratic caucus.
Pelosi, 83, said she had been receiving calls from people who asked if she could stay in Congress.
“I have decided now that in light of the values of San Francisco, which we have always been proud to promote, I’ve made the decision to seek reelection,” Pelosi said during an event at a labor hall in San Francisco on Friday morning.
In a 30-minute telephone interview Friday, Pelosi said the decision to remain in Congress came down to two critical things: the needs of her district and her ability to continue using her high profile to boost Democrats, particularly financially, ahead of the 2024 elections…
While she still does not intend to seek committee assignments, Pelosi said running for reelection allows her to “amplify my role” in helping President Biden and House Democrats in next year’s elections.
As long as she’s actively campaigning, Pelosi can keep raising money for her own campaign account, which hauled in more than $2 million in the first six months of this year. In a very safe Democratic seat, she pours most of that into helping other campaigns, including at least $400,000 sent to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee…
Pelosi, who on Thursday celebrated her 60th wedding anniversary, announced her reelection campaign at a moment when she has emerged as a staunch defender of politicians serving well into their 80s.
She has a formal role in Biden’s campaign, and she continues to raise money for former attorney general Eric Holder’s group fighting to help redraw congressional districts.
“We need all the help we can get,” she said, explaining she believes that Democrats will win the majority and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.) will become the first Black speaker. “I just can’t sit it out.”…
When she stepped out of leadership at the end of last year, Pelosi repeatedly said that she did not want to appear as the “mother-in-law in the kitchen” hovering over the new Democratic leaders. She took no legislative committee assignments and became a roving political ambassador for Democrats, still helping to raise money for candidates and liberal causes but without an official portfolio…
Pelosi acknowledged in December that she would be transitioning from a role that comes with “awesome power” to one with still “strong” if subtler influence, particularly on women who might want to run for office. She recalled how, when she arrived in Congress in 1987, there were only 23 women in the House out of 435 lawmakers.
“I want women to have confidence,” Pelosi said in December. “So sometimes when I act a little more, shall we say, like myself, it’s because I want them to know it’s okay to assert yourself, to have confidence in what you bring to the table and also to understand your uniqueness.”…
Nancy Pelosi is our real-life Olenna Tyrell and y’all disrespect her way too casually. https://t.co/BWGC553aW8
— Dark Brandon Mecha (@TonyMoonbeam) September 8, 2023
Whether you like her or not, there is no single legislator who has been responsible for as much legislation as Nancy Pelosi has.
CARES and the ACA would not exist without her. Most speakers would have struggled to pass the ARP or the Inflation Reduction Act with her majorities. pic.twitter.com/tYD5tOgZNh
— Lakshya Jain (@lxeagle17) September 8, 2023
Speaker Emerita Pelosi is the greatest to ever do it.
Her continued leadership on behalf of the people of San Francisco and the nation will serve us well in 2024 and beyond.
Let’s do this! https://t.co/SvU9uLGy1r
— Hakeem Jeffries (@hakeemjeffries) September 9, 2023
Nancy Pelosi is trending
He's 35 She's 83 pic.twitter.com/VoPzj2Xze6
— Vice Presidentissimo 🍔 (@ProseccoLiquido) September 8, 2023
War for Ukraine Day 562: The Starlink Snowflake Tries to Explain & the UN May Be Trying to Give Putin an Out
Villago Delenda Est
Well, OBVIOUSLY she is too old! If she were a spring chicken, like the Turtle or TFG, this would be very different…
Alison Rose
Alanc1473 is obviously a fucking idiot, but it’s amazing how many people on the right who despise her try to push that narrative. Bitch, if she’d really never accomplished anything, y’all wouldn’t hate her so much!
Also as I said in an earlier thread, I love that she’s reclaiming their “San Francisco values” pseudo-slur. She’s a boss and she can stay in office until she’s 105 as far as I’m concerned.
Gin & Tonic
I have frequently commented here about the unhealthy gerontocracy in US politics, and this is no exception. She needs to step aside and let somebody young take over. I could see an argument for her staying as Speaker back in 2020, but this is just inexcusable and actively harmful egocentrism.
Alison Rose
@Gin & Tonic: How is it harmful?
Jackie
Nancy was on Nicolle Wallace today:
https://youtu.be/SRp8mbRJEsw?si=O0kZUV0dGlJ8-DPt
gene108
A general observation and specific to any member of Congress.
There is a need to make room for younger politicians among both Republicans and Democrats.
Congress dominated by older wealthy people has the inherent drawback of members being out of touch with less old and less wealthy people.
Geoduck
If she was still Speaker/Speaker-to-be, I might be annoyed, but since she’s now officially a rank-and-filer, if her constituents want her back in there, OK then.
Nukular Biskits
NANCY SMASH!
Scamp Dog
@Gin & Tonic: Except she’s no longer in the leadership, she’s going to be a reliable vote and a great fundraiser.
Jackie
@Gin & Tonic: She’s in excellent health and today on Nicolle Wallace’s show said she wants to be a part of Congress to welcome the first POC Speaker of the House when Jeffries is sworn in.
It’s only a two year stint, and I agree with her!
eta I’m wording this terribly, but hope everyone understands what I’m trying to say.
Old School
Her colleagues value her counsel. She raises lots of money to help other Democrats. Her constituents want her there. She’s in good health. And it’s a two-year term.
Doesn’t seem to be an issue to me.
kindness
I’ve seen a lot of respectable liberal blogs go nuts with this one on Nancy today. Lots of people are unhappy with Nancy. The problem is all their well meaning arguments paint everyone with the same brush, and yea they are also hinting Biden is ‘a problem’. I get it. Ruth Bader Ginsberg played her hand poorly. That one was a biggee. If anything happens to Biden, Kamela takes over and I have every faith in Kamela. Nancy no doubt still fund raises more than any other representative. Well, she used to when speaker at least. I don’t see Nancy getting feeble or DiFi like. As far as I’m concerned Nancy can run and it’s up to her constituents if they want her or someone else representing them.
Ageism even when cloaked in well meaning is still bigotry.
Mousebumples
Nancy Pelosi is the Queen of the House, so far as I’m concerned. Yes, I’d like to get more youth into Congress, but if she can help Jeffries and his leadership team be effective with (possibly) a small majority, yas, Queen!
Gin & Tonic
@Alison Rose: It is preventing the possibility of a young person taking that seat and building up the seniority that is so necessary in the House. She herself was elected at 47, having been essentially gifted that seat by the Burtons; IMO even 47 was old
ETA: You may know I follow Ukrainian politics closely – 65% of the members of their (unicameral) legislature are 45 or younger. Zero are over 80. This is healthy. The US Congress is not.
Brachiator
Pelosi should retire. I respect and honor all that she has done. But we need more younger people in Congress.
My unofficial rule is that I will not vote for anyone in a primary who would be age 77 or older when they completed the second term of their office. This is regular retirement age for most workers plus 10 years.
However, after the primary I will always vote for the Democrat.
I will not apply this rule to President Biden.
ETA. Ageism? I’m old. I would not vote for myself.
Shalimar
@Alison Rose: He shows no grasp whatsoever of how hard it is to keep small majorities together, as McCarthy is finding out now. She was masterful at it, far more skilled with less margin for error than any other Congressional leader in the last 60 years.
gene108
@kindness:
When things go south, it can happen very fast. DiFi was in better shape 7 years ago, when she was Nancy’s age.
Oh please, wanting an 80-something year old to retire after a 35+ years on the job isn’t ageism. It’s not like a 50-something struggling to find work because prospective employers want to hire younger candidates who will work for less.
Shalimar
@Brachiator: Why? Pelosi is no longer in leadership. She’s just a backbencher, with far more ability and influence than her replacement will have. She represents her district better than anyone else could. Isn’t that the job?
This isn’t a Feinstein or McConnell situation where she is no longer mentally or physically capable of doing the job.
Alison Rose
@Gin & Tonic: Okay, but first, there’s no guarantee that whomever would replace her would be “young”, however we define that. And it’s not like by virtue of being of a younger generation, some random other politician deserves her seat. Also, someone being younger doesn’t mean they’re better or even good. Age is not a definitive determination of someone’s worth in either direction.
Pelosi has been one of the most effective and consequential Democratic politician of my life. She stepped back from leadership to allow a new voice to take the role. (Hakeem Jeffries is 53, don’t know if he qualifies as young.) But she is still an important figure and seems to be in very good health. We’ve been talking about this with regard to Biden for months now. Do you think he shouldn’t run for reelection?
Alison Rose
@gene108: So do you also want Biden not to run for reelection?
And Christ people, why are we acting like a younger person would absolutely and definitely and totally be a million times better? As someone who is not young in general but in this community is certainly at the younger end of the spectrum, I can tell you, many people in my generation and younger ones fucking suck. I’ve never believed that old age automatically equals wisdom, but youth also doesn’t automatically equal fresh thinking or whatever.
Gin & Tonic
@Alison Rose: Being one out of one is a lot different than being one out of 435.
Shalimar
@Gin & Tonic: Building up seniority and influence is not a given. Seats change hands all the time. Young politicians move up to higher offices and positions all the time. She has more seniority than anyone already.
Brachiator
@Shalimar:
This is not necessarily true.
As I noted, I think that there should be a retirement age for Congress. Age 77 is enough time for a substantial career. I think that a younger Congress would be more representative of the people.
This takes nothing away from Pelosi.
Also, I cannot complain if people in her district want her to run again.
Eric S.
I’m torn. The number doesn’t bother me. Pelosi seems capable. Feinstein doesn’t.
In general, I’d like to see younger pols come in and build their influence and experience.
Specifically, I have no problem with an effective pol staying in power.
Pelosi and her position lend itself to both statements.
In the end, I trust Pelosi (more than most) to make a judgement. If she thinks she’s best for the seat then let the voters agree or disagree.
How’s that for non-committal?
Alison Rose
@Gin & Tonic: I don’t understand what you mean. If she’s only “one out of 435” then why is it so important for her to leave?
Gwangung
What is the worst that can happen? She dies? Well, she’s not too leadership, so Dems lock and reload.
she sits in the way of younger talent? Her seat is not the only pathway for up and coming talent. You should step aside fir someone very talented IN YOUR DISTRICT…otherwise what you gain in youth you lose in experience and savvy.
with the new leadership in place. All younger and in their prime, I don’t see the concern to be that pressing.
Fair Economist
Throughout her entire career as House Leader, Pelosi was a total star: saving Social Security in 2005, passing the ACA in 2010 (and a truckload of other awesome legislation the Senate blew it on), regaining the majority in 2018, and passing the IRA in 2022. Nobody else could have done as well and on those two critical legislative actions probably nobody else could have done it period.
She couldn’t be taking a better course now, given her age and abilities. At her age, serious problems *do* come up often with little notice (Hi Mitch!) and it was a wise choice to step down from leadership. Plus being in the minority is the right time for the new leadership to learn how to get things done. But she’s inspiring, she’s a great fundraiser, she’s still got the ability and the energy, and I’m sure she’s a valued voice of reason and experience in the caucus. She’s just been, and continues to be, great for us and an incredible servant of the country.
Elizabelle
I think Nancy Pelosi wants to help shepherd through any Biden legislation she can. We are still in very perilous times. We can use her skill.
It’s a 2 year term. San Francisco is not promising political territory for Republicans.
craig
@Alison Rose: agreed. She’s been my Rep. since 1992, she’s done an amazing job. She was the best Speaker possible in her time. I don’t think it’s necessarily good for a healthy democracy for someone who is highly effective, a fantastic resource for leadership and a hoover of a fundraiser to need to step aside because some people have decided she’s too old and a younger person should sit in that chair. She’s running. If there is a young person who can make the claim to be better for the job they’ll run and maybe they win.
Brachiator
Mildly contradicting my own position.
A Franklin or a Pelosi may be rare. They are both giants.
I still think she should consider retiring.
Elizabelle
I think DiFi is trapped between the GOP’s threat to leave her Senate judiciary seat vacant, which would mean no more Biden judges — crucial for democracy — and Gavin Newsome’s pledge to appoint a black woman to the next Senate seat opening up. But, the election is next year, and there are three viable candidates running for the seat.
It would be great if Barbara Lee (third place among three; polling at 17%) would agree to step into the seat in a caretaker role, but that could be seen as demeaning to people of color. It would seem Rep. Lee passed on the idea, since it has not happened.
So, Newsome has made himself a headache, and McConnell and the GOP are trying to force Democrats into a nightmare scenario, with no more judges.
Incidentally, here are the GOP members of the Judiciary Committee. You will notice it is heavy on deplorables. US Senate link.
Elizabelle
Comment was in moderation, because too many links, so second try:
I think DiFi is trapped between the GOP’s threat to leave her Senate judiciary seat vacant, which would mean no more Biden judges — crucial for democracy — and Gavin Newsome’s pledge to appoint a black woman to the next Senate seat opening up. But, the election is next year, and there are three viable candidates running for the seat.
It would be great if Barbara Lee (third place among three; polling at 17%) would agree to step into the seat in a caretaker role, but that could be seen as demeaning to people of color. It would seem Rep. Lee passed on the idea, since it has not happened.
So, Newsome has made himself a headache, and McConnell and the GOP are trying to force Democrats into a nightmare scenario, with no more judges.
Incidentally, here are the GOP members of the Judiciary Committee. You will notice it is heavy on deplorables. US Senate link.
piratedan
@Brachiator: I have little doubt that she DID consider hanging them up.
People are complicated as to what motivates them. Perhaps there’s more than one key decision element….
Shalimar
@Brachiator: She agrees with you. She did consider retiring. And decided not to this time.
RaflW
Ultimately, as someone not in her district, it is of course up to her constituents. That said, what freakin’ chance would any Dem challenger have against an incredibly powerful speaker emerita and her prodigious fundraising ability?
My small concern, and it doesn’t seem to be his, is if it could be read as, or more likely misused by the GOP as, a sign of limited faith in Mr. Jeffries to stand as leader without her behind him helping out.
To be clear, I am not saying she’s doing that. I think she is using her skill and experience to be a solid assist for him as he grows in the job. I think a year+ from now if she left he’d do quite fine (and still have her personal cell phone number).
Polling is crap, but I would love to know what young Dem (and potential Dem) voters think of her. I’d hope that young women especially are still inspired by her biography, her groundbreaking assumption of the gavel, and her general kick-assed-ness. But I don’t know many 20s-30s women (I’m a childless 57y.o., this isn’t that surprising. And my one and only niece is 16 and just beginning to show a mild interest in politics–though she knows she’s a Democrat).
wjca
News Flash: she did
Anne Laurie
If Pelosi were still Speaker, and / or if this were a six-year term, I *might* agree with you. But she’s stepped back, she’s only signing up for another two years, and there will be plenty of young contenders around next time, too.
I included a long extract from the WaPo piece because I think she argues her case very well, frankly.
Villago Delenda Est
The IMPORTANT thing here is that she’s driving the American Fascist Party bonkers.
Lyrebird
People willing to bring in new info that contradicts their own position – also at least somewhat rare. Thanks for the history flash!
I might personally hope that she’s thinking of helping with this upcoming election and then retiring after the nation gets through, say, Jan. 6, 2025. I also wouldn’t want to trade her for a West Coast Rep. Tlaib or Rep. Moulton. Not sure how you select for another Rep. Underwood. She (NDP) has been in politics since childhood, really, AND she got the pre-Mueller report briefings so she knows more than most about the sht the compromised Orange Menace got up to, and she is more realistic about what is possible to get through Congress than most anyone I have heard previously when pushing for a primary against her. But ultimately, I don’t live in SF, so I do not get to say.
Ruckus
@kindness:
I voted for Harris in the primary when she ran for president. I’d vote for her again for president if she runs after Joe finishes his second term. I think she is an excellent politician, and I rarely use that adjective about a politician.
craig
@RaflW: you and I don’t know anything. For all we know one of the reasons she ultimately decided to run again was that Jeffries asked her to stick around for another term. She’s my Rep., I’ve met her 3 times, she’s a cool lady. She’s got lots of young staffers that are sharp, smart and cool.
ETA. Meaning she’s not some out of touch Chuck Grassley kind of person. I know you didn’t argue that, just finishing my thought.
Jackie
@Eric S.: There’s also the very real difference between a two year term vs a six year term.
I’m quite comfortable with Pelosi running for two more years. After one last term, I see her retiring. Her interview with Nicolle Wallace today suggested as much.
80+ yr old senators running for six more yrs – not so much.
Cameron
If her constituents want her back, that’s fine with me. She’s a hell of a lot sharper than I am, and I’m 11 years younger than her. We probably could use some younger people in office (like <65), but they have to run and they have to convince the voters to swing their way.
JWR
I’m really surprised at all the “Pelosi’s too old” comments on this post. Funny thing, this was the same argument Chuck Todd made on tonight’s NBC Nightly News… She’s too old! She should step aside for fresh blood! “We don’t have kings in this country!” (That last was almost a direct quote.) As far as I’m concerned she’s been an extremely effective leader, has a lot left to pass on to Jeffries, and I expect this to be her last (2 year) rodeo, so I just don’t get the big deal.
PS. I do not like David Brooks! Paraphrasing Bobo on tonight’s PBS News Hour: The Repubs need to understand that we need immigrants, but Dems need to know that we have to control our border. (Yeah, Dave, they know this.) He’s just a polite deliverer of Repub talking points.
wjca
I suppose that I’d be more sympathetic to your view except for this. Personally I’m 76, and still employed (W-2 and everything). Don’t need the money particularly. But I’m enjoying what I do, and my boss values my work enough to pay me for it. (Including sweat equity; her idea, not mine.)
So sure, most people are ready to retire in their 60s, and should. But most is not all. If you’re looking at a specific case, as opposed to writing policy for a group, you should look at the characteristics and ability of that specific individual. Pelosi and Biden: still going strong. Feinstein, McConnell, and TIFG**: well past their sell-by date.
** OK, his sell-by date was probably somewhere before he left college. But the point remains.
HumboldtBlue
I have lived in California for a long time, and I have never voted for Nancy Pelosi.
Having her wisdom and her smarts on hand for another term outweighs any concerns about age.
I also think Adam Schiff is going to be the next Senator.
Jackie
O/T but this is a hilarious must read from Digby re Fani’s response to Gym Jordan’s demands:
https://digbysblog.net/2023/09/08/you-dont-spit-into-the-wind/
scav
Team it’s up to her constituents and don’t personally mind her being there to guide / instruct / mentor an entire generation of congress people rather than “step aside” for a single one.
Mike in NC
Former Speaker Pelosi deserves a special Congressional Gold Medal or equivalent for helping to impeach Fat Bastard.
Ohio Mom
Okay, I’m half asleep but I have to admit my first reaction was “She’s coming out of retirement?!” Pelosi has such a low profile these days, I just about forgot she was still serving.
Look, I trust her (she’s more than earned it), if she thinks she needs to stay a little longer, I am not going to second guess her. The country is still on shaky ground. I imagine she has a deeper appreciation of just how shaky than I do.
RaflW
Just gonna reiterate that I have no standing in CA-11, and feel largely neutral on this one House seat for the next two years.
What I do feel strongly about is electing young Democrats. To city councils, state legislatures, as elected D.A.s, etc. To that end I’ve supported Run for Something for several years and will continue t do so, and to directly support some of their endorsed candidates each cycle (as well as other younger candidates I come across, as well as 60-somethings like Amy K and Tammy Baldwin, among others. Age is a factor, but not a limiter).
Whenever Ms. Smash decides to retire, lets have benches of younger pols who’ve run and held other offices. It’s how we need to be filling the ranks for every US House seat, governor’s mansion, etc.
craig
@RaflW: I agree. Thanks for that link. A quick look makes me think that’s something I can get involved with.
Bupalos
@Alison Rose: “So called green dream.”
That’s how.
I mean, that’s not actually how. For all I know the young person behind her might also have her “realistic” attitude about what can and can’t change, because politics isn’t that much about personality.
The real problem is that democratic politics is first and foremost about participation. That’s how and why it works as a governing system. Participation. Representation.
It mattered that Barack Obama was black. It mattered that Nancy Pelosi was a strong woman leader. And it matters now that the entire government is like 70-84 years old and a whole generation is being locked out of representation by a gerontocracy. Because democracy is about participation. That is THE most important thing about it. This is a generational statement that lands somewhere between “Fuck you I got mine” and “don’t bother kid, you wouldn’t know how to do this important st…(farts and falls asleep)”
Biden was bad enough but that was existential, so on the advice of folks at the sharp end of racism, we went with what would best sooth the racist grampas. And I guess it worked electorally. And this administration has been better than anyone had a right to hope though no one seems to have noticed.
But Pelosi, Shumer, is Steny Hoyer still alive and pretending to be “representative?” This gerontocracy is the second most glaring sign of democracy’s backslide. We all know the first.
PJ
@Bupalos:
@Bupalos: Someone voted Pelosi, Schumer, Hoyer, and Biden into office. I wonder who that was. Could it have been citizens of the United States? Other people can, and have, run for those offices – could it be that the people who vote actually preferred the candidates they voted for?
And “Biden was bad enough”? I mean, is there any response to that besides “go fuck yourself”? He’s been the best President of my lifetime.
RaflW
@craig: And for chrissakes, School Boards!
The reich wing in this country is taking over school boards, sometimes blatantly, sometimes with some stealth. It’s a crisis. A host od fecently-funded 20- and 30-somethings with even mildly liberal to (dare I say it) even centrist leanings could do so much for the next generation of Americans, and the cities and towns we live in.
wenchacha
@Gin & Tonic: I’m with Alison, and Nancy, too. She can, if she chooses, tap someone to run for her seat in two years. She has the energy and conviction to work for 2024.
Bupalos
@Fair Economist: This all reminds me of RG3.
No, we aren’t likely to be in that kind of a bind given that her seat is “safe.” But hanging on to that spot when she has as much as admitted that it’s time to scale back, that doesn’t have a real rationale I can see. Some people obviously see an upside here, but don’t kid yourself, there is a cost. The “earned it” talk is always a red flag for me.
Alison Rose
@Bupalos: No one is being “locked out” of shit. It’s not like there are all these poor downtrodden sparkling young souls kneeling before her and pleading to be blessed with the opportunity to take her House seat and she’s kicking them all in the face and telling them to get fucked.
People, remember: candidates have to be reelected by their constituents voting for them. Pelosi didn’t say “I have decided to remain in my seat for another two-year term”, she said she is running for reelection. Now, sure, plenty of pols in her age group have a pretty much guaranteed election win, but that’s because the people in their districts choose to vote for them. If the people of San Francisco want someone younger — because apparently we’ve decided here that “young” equals “amazing and perfect and smart and wonderful” — then they could choose not to vote for Pelosi. If they do vote for her, it’s because they like her and want her to continue to represent them.
I moved to SF very soon after she was elected Speaker, and the city was fucking thrilled. There was a huge billboard overlooking Lombard celebrating her as the first woman and first Californian to be in the role. And it’s clear the voters there have continued to value and admire her and want her as their rep.
At the end of the day, Nancy SMASH is gonna Nancy SMASH. She is allowed to choose how to live her life, and she’s done a damn good job of it thus far.
RaflW
@Bupalos: “we went with what would best sooth the racist grampas”
Dang. That’s some ad hoc bullshit right there. It was Black voters in South Carolina who delivered for Biden in primary season. It was Black women nationally who delivered and got Biden over the finish line in November.
Bupalos
@wenchacha: The current leader “tapping” someone is not a healthy way for democracy to work.
Bupalos
@RaflW: Duh.
“so on the advice of folks at the sharp end of racism”
PJ
@Gin & Tonic:
Newsflash: Every person who runs for office has to have a more than healthy ego. But who’s to say who’s right in the battle between your ageism and the best Speaker of the House in recent times thinking they would still be the best person for the job of representing her district? If you think Nancy Pelosi’s age disqualifies her for being a Representative, then you definitely shouldn’t vote for her.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
Age is a very funny thing. I thought that when I got out of the Navy, at 23, 6 days before I turned 24, that I was never going to work after I turned 65. The jokes on me, I worked 7 years longer than that. And at a physical job. And 2 years later I still take 2 mile walks, when it isn’t 90 degrees or more out. We all age differently, the youngest person on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_verified_oldest_people passed away at 114 yrs 194 days. The person that has lived the longest was 122 yrs 164 days. Both women. Some humans live a lot longer than the mean. Nancy is 83. My mom was still working at 84 and made it another 11 yrs. Yes Nancy is no spring chicken but she sounds as if she’s got a few more good years in her. And I live in what’s called a seniors complex. One has to be over 55 to rent here and many are in their 90s. A woman I know is 97 and still pilots her electric 4 wheeler that looks like a 4 wheel bicycle around the place like it’s a race track. Good thing it isn’t that fast. She rode motorcycles for well over 50 yrs. And no I am not kidding. We don’t all keel over at 70-75, and yes some do a lot earlier. My oldest sister made it to 66, I know some who didn’t make it that far. In some ways it’s just a crap shoot and the luck of the genes.
Would I like to replace Nancy with someone younger? Sure, if that someone had her knowledge and experience. Please remember that they don’t work 10 hrs a day loading hay bales, or climbing power poles or fighting fires. It’s a sit down job and she is very knowledgeable and powerful because of her experience and no bullshit attitude. We could do far worse.
Alison Rose
@Bupalos: Given TIFG and J6 and everything happening now stemming from those things, I hardly think an elder politician seeking out a younger one they like and giving their campaign a boost is what is unhealthy about our democracy.
Also, again, you do understand campaigns and elections, right? Pelosi “tapping” someone to run for her seat is not her INSTALLING that person in the seat. Voters would still have the choice. She’s not going to go around to every precinct in San Francisco and hold a switchblade to everyone’s throats and demand they vote for the person she likes.
JWR
The images out of Morocco are horrible (From ABC):
6.8 is huge.
Eolirin
@Bupalos: It lets her fundraise in a way that would be illegal for her to do as a private citizen. That alone is justification enough.
RaflW
Whenever Ms Pelosi announces her retirement, there will be plenty of people who will step up to run. Hand-picking a successor is, certainly, something I find problematic – particularly if that hand-pick comes with a landslide of directed money.
Even us Dems need to take actions on out of control campaign finance issues. But I’d be curious how often the ‘tapped’ candidate actually gets the nod of the local voters. House districts are still, in theory, small enough that retail politicking and coalition-building matter. I seem to remember that AOC was not the ‘tapped’ person for her race (IIRC – it’s been a while, and 1000 literal miles from my perch).
Brachiator
@wjca:
I am ancient and I am also still working.
I think Congress should be younger. I am not yet proposing a constitutional amendment creating a mandatory retirement age.
ETA. I also think it is cool that the Rolling Stones are releasing a new album. And those guys are ancient.
RaflW
@Bupalos: WTF
Alison Rose
@JWR: It’s awful :( And yeah, 6.8 is terrifying. The 1989 quake in the Bay Area was 6.9 and I still remember those moments crystal clear. We lived far enough from the epicenter that it was nowhere near as destructive to our area, but it was still big and scared the crap out of 9-year-old me.
I hope they’re able to get aid and assistance as soon as possible.
Bupalos
Actually to me it’s very much like that. There’s a political reality to the power of fabulously wealthy, renowned institutions like Nancy Pelosi. Honestly, because she’s been at the forefront of national politics, her persona seems well to the right of her constituency. IMO no one who roots for American democracy to go left should be excited that Nancy Pelosi continue to represent CA-11.
Brachiator
@Ruckus:
People in my family often have lived a long time. A number of them have lived past age 100. Many have been healthy and fit well into their 90s.
Pelosi would not be a Congressional leader or be senior in committees. I honor and respect all that she has done. The leadership could consult with her whenever necessary.
We need more young people in Congress. And we have a lot of political talent in California. We need to take advantage of this talent.
wjca
Backslide? Seriousl
Bupalos
Democracy isn’t about forming a government that makes the best, wisest decisions. You can go to the Plato’s Republic for that. It’s about a government that represents the people and brings in the active participation of the people. I think folks are very seriously underestimating the damage done to democracy by the kind of pathological incumbency we’re rooting on here.
Bupalos
@wjca: Yup. American (and global) democracy is backsliding and has been for decades. I’m pretty surprised at anyone objecting to this.
Omnes Omnibus
Christ, people. Pelosi and Hoyer have stepped down from leadership. Jeffries is in his early fifties. Aguilar is 44. I suppose you all think Clark is too old at 60, but come on. Why would you toss out the institutional knowledge and savvy that Pelosi can bring to any discussion any time they need it?
Omnes Omnibus
WTAF?
Bupalos
@RaflW: I’m just pointing out that the point you’re trying to point out was already pointed at.
Like yes, as it happened and in the flow and calender of the primary, black voters were the bloc that functionally gave us Biden as the nominee. That is the bloc that “advised” us to go with the candidate most acceptable to straight white men. And I’m implying this was a in part a kind of concession to racism, from the folks who best understood the salience of racism.
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: I think the median voter in CA-11 is further left than Pelosi.
Would depend on the issue I guess, but I think that’s overall true. You don’t?
Alison Rose
@Bupalos:
LOLOLOL okay cool story. Better we elect young dipshits who make awful decisions rather than reelect smart older people who we know we can trust to do the right thing and get good shit done. That is probably one of the most baffling things anyone’s ever said on this blog.
Also, show some receipts. What damage is going to be done to democracy by Nancy D’Alesandro Pelosi serving two more years in the House? What are you so bloody worried about? You can’t just say “cause I think it are none good” and leave it at that. And please, tell us, who are all these bright young things that mean nasty Nancy is shoving into the Bay if they even have a single thought about running for her seat? Again: She would need to reelected by the voters. If the voters choose her, that is their God damn right. Why do you think certain districts should not get an equal say in democracy as you do?
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: I would like to see some sources for that other than your thoughts.
Alison Rose
@Omnes Omnibus: Pelosi, that well-known right wing nutjob.
Alison Rose
@Bupalos: Where do you live? (Just your city and state, you don’t have to post your street address.)
wjca
@Bupalos:
[Let me try this again, without my keyboard freezing up on me in the middle.]
Let’s look, just for comparison, at 1970. (Picked for the totally idiosyncratic reason that it was the first year I could vote for President.)
Note that male life expectancy has increased about 10 years since then. So add that to all those ages. Hard to see how things have seriously declined/deteriorated in half a century or so.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: I don’t even know where to start. That’s “not even wrong” in the Pauli sense.
Righteous Hazard
Very elderly candidates are a dice roll.
If you win, you get someone like Joe, who not only beats the shitheel who needs beating, but also gets the job done.
When you lose, you get someone like Senator Feinstein, who win elections for long senatorial terms that are not really contested, and whose advancing dementia make them a clear and present danger to democracy itself.
Nancy Pelosi’s age puts us at risk. But the shortness of House terms reduces the risk and her remarkable political acumen and fundraising power make her an asset like Joe.
But the risk of the Democrats of becoming a gerontocratic party take in this regard is real, and we need youth recruitment everywhere to offset it.
Alison Rose
@Righteous Hazard:
From everything everyone can see, she is in good health, mentally sharp, still walking around in high heels. Age alone is not a definitive indicator of health, and anyone at any age can have health issues. John Fetterman had a stroke in his early 50s. Jamie Raskin is 60 and dealing with cancer.
Further, fine, let’s play into this belief people have that anyone in their 80s is moments away from keeling over all day every day. How would that put us at risk? You know she reps San Francisco, yes? Do you think there is a popsicle’s chance in Satan’s ass that she’d be replaced by a Republican? What is the “risk” by her serving two more years?
Brachiator
@wjca:
McCormack was elected to state office in 1920. He was first elected to the House in 1928.
Under my rules, he is the only person on your list who I would have retired for reaching age 77.
ETA. After Congress, Mike Mansfield was ambassador to Japan. Maybe into his 80s.
JWR
@Alison Rose:
A dear boyhood BFF was living in San Francisco back then, (he’s been priced out and is living in Richmond now), and he told me he was somewhere on BART, and underwater(?) when it hit. Scary stuff! But I saw that collapsed freeway, the 580 or 680?, and it looked really bad. San Francisco, Los Angeles, and all points between, what a place to live!
Bupalos
Well, you’ve created a false opposition here, the dumb youngs that fuck everything up versus the wise olds that know how things work. Know, for instance, that the “green dream” needs to stay in dream land where it doesn’t F with 150 million dollar net worths. And my statement was a structural one within the realm of political theory. Democracy as such is aimed at obtaining the consent of the governed through participation. That is its strength as a system of government. Not that the things 51% of the legislators want to do are smarter than the things 49% of the legislators want to do. But the stability created when we say “I disagree, but I had a say here” is the glue that holds a country together. When we drift towards some kind of opaque system where you need the magic wise lady that somehow makes things happen that don’t simply have to do with representation…well, that’s a step back from what we want democracy to look like.
That’s all I meant to say there.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos:
I am by no means an expert but as I understand it green dream weed is supposed to help with stress.
Alison Rose
@JWR: Yeah, it was bonkers. The Cypress Structure collapse was terrifying, because pretty much everyone in or around the central Bay Area drove on it hundreds of times, and the sight of it after was just horrible.
Alison Rose
@Bupalos: I’m not saying, nor have I ever said, all old people are brilliant and all young people are stupid. There are people of all levels of intelligence and ability at all ages. But you and others seem to be dedicated to the idea that anyone past, say, 75 is minutes away from dementia or a heart attack or something, and that simply is not true.
I don’t even know what your point is about “consent of the governed” and “I had a say here”. THAT IS WHAT VOTING IS. Pelosi is not a witch who magicked herself into the House. People voted for her. You know, the governed had a say and consented and voted for her and elected her. The system is not opaque. You are just not inside it. Also, “that somehow makes things happen” way to shit on the massive accomplishments of a woman. Good job.
You didn’t answer about where you live. I’m just curious to know why your district should get to vote for the candidate they like but Nancy’s shouldn’t all because you don’t think she has the right to live her life as she wishes.
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: There is a lot of “wisdom of the people” rhetoric around democracy that I don’t give much respect. I think it isn’t any better substantiated than “the wisdom of the better race” or “the wisdom of the wealthier people” or “the wisdom of the guy chosen by god” or whatnot.
It’s functional strength isn’t decision-making. It’s making people more respectful of the decision government does make, and more respectful of each other. It has some nice corrective features as well.
At least we should be able to agree that super-long incumbency and hyper-wealth do have some tension with democracy, as does this idea of the technocrat that alone can operate the levers of government, because said levers are so complex and opaque?
frosty
Nice one!
karen marie
Twitter is rapidly falling apart. Other than the text, I cannot see tweets embedded in the post. They usually populate eventually. So far, the ones above have not.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: It isn’t actually a bad thing for the people to exercise their choice in favor of people who actually know how to do what is, in fact, a rather complicated job if one tries to do it right.
smike
@Bupalos:
Until you can pass legislation that requires all legislators to retire at 77 (or whatever age), do not ask democrats to ‘disarm’ by putting our power out to pasture.
wjca
Under your rules, and allowing for the increase in lifespans, you should be looking at retiring everyone on the list over 67. Which is to say, everybody but Ford.
Gwangung
@Omnes Omnibus: The dude has swallowed tge propaganda of progressives. Nancy has always been among the more liberal voters in Congress. She governed AS SPEAKER that was right dead vcenter of the party, which is not the same as voting fir her district.
Alison Rose
@frosty: Merci :)
TriassicSands
Yes, Ruckus, but by remaining in office, Pelosi prevents or, at least, delays someone from gaining the experience and knowledge that come from being in office.
My concern is that the Democratic Party desperately needs younger voters to be engaged and 75+-year-old candidates (and 80+-year-old presidents) are not the way to attract young voters. The younger voters I know do not want to vote for Biden next year. Saying “what choice do they have” is not the way to encourage them to be actively involved. The default in this country is disengagement, and it is at its worst among younger voters.
Gwangung
Also… NANCY PELOSI IS NOT IN THE HOUSE LEADERSHIP.
yet all the arguments only make sense if she still was (and not as a one if the gang Representatives).. y’all need to remember that she and hoyer have stepped down. In a large party it’s oK to have old member for institutional memory, particularly if they ARE NOT LEADERSHIP.
wjca
@Brachiator:
I have no interest in where you live. But I do have a question: how old is your House member? Curious if you are tending your own garden first.
Bupalos
@Alison Rose: Something you can’t see through without being inside it is actually the definition of opaque. One of the challenges of our liberal democracies from the late 20th century on is that people increasingly find the idea that they can effect the kind of change they actually want hilarious or insane or require some kind of dark magic. And post citizens united, who can argue. A lot of things flow from that view of politics.
I’m of course not suggesting that I should get to vote in Pelosi’s district, I don’t understand that tack. I’m offering my opinion that this isn’t good for the party within the conception of politics I hope for. And that’s perhaps a pipe-dreamy one. I don’t know whether folks on the left starving for champions have made her into way more than she is, or whether it’s true that without her parliamentary magic there’s no ACA or IRA. Very well may be, I don’t know. Maybe consider my afrontery here a symptom of a naive kind of politics. I think that’s what she would probably do. Then fall back on a stack of a quarter billion dollars.
Bupalos
@wjca: Younger, and much much worse. I tend and tend and tend, but he doesn’t get any better.
Alison Rose
@Bupalos: I didn’t say you think you should get to vote in her district. I want to know why you think the people in that district should not get to vote for her if they choose to. Because again, in order for a candidate to win, people need to vote for them. If people vote for her, it’s because they want her to win. And they are allowed to want that even if it makes you mad.
This conversation is going around in circles. I don’t know how to get across to some of you that our democracy is not going to implode because Nancy Pelosi serves one more term. It’s going to implode if Trump gets reelected. So yeah, we have to vote for old Joe Biden, and yes, I want old Nancy Pelosi still there so she can help that along and help his agenda. Because those two are two of the biggest things standing between us and the actual loss of our democracy. Even though they both rode to school on dinosaurs.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Omnes Omnibus:
Because pony! Seriously, Pelosi is in a safe seat and isn’t in a leadership post that will suffer if she falls off the face of the earth. She has a lot more to offer than a newly minted representative so that’s not a issue. Her constituents like her and have returned her and probably will once again. This isn’t some asshole politician who is wrecking our country and wants to pick a successor to finish it off. The pony lovers need to focus on the enemy and not our allies.
They like being political Tonya Hardings.
Bupalos
@Gwangung: I’d actually be more positively disposed to her decision to stay on if she was formally staying in leadership. The argument for her is that she’s really good at pulling the levers.
Bupalos
@Alison Rose: Some of the reaction here verges on the Republican “you’re violating my free speech if you criticize it.” No one said they don’t get to vote, no one said she can’t run. They’re registering their opinion, and in my case I’m saying I think Pelosi should step aside because it would be healthier for democracy and the party that I’d like to see emerge. I don’t think it’s existential, I just think its less than optimal.
Richard
@Gin & Tonic: yes, they are all too old. But what is wrong with Buttigeig? Is he too gay? Is he too intelligent? Is he too white?
Is it a problem, that he speaks more than one language badly?
Whatever it is, if it is republican, I am not going to vote for it.
They have done enough damage already.
Righteous Hazard
@Alison Rose: “Age alone is not a definitive indicator of health, and anyone at any age can have health issues”
Look, I have no desire to debate this. But this is simply not true. Age, all by itself, is a significant predictor of neurological impairment.
Nancy Pelosi is worth the risk. My best friend used to staff for her. I know how valuable she is. But we shouldn’t pretend that the risk doesnt exist.
I live in Northern California. I already have diluted Senatorial representation due to the fact that California has a large population. Right now, we effectively have no 2nd senator, because we elected Diane Feinstein.
She has a “safe seat” too. One that I would prefer to be filled by someone who didn’t have the misfortune pf falling off a age related neurological cliff.
gwangung
@Bupalos: There are other arguments (institutional memory, experience and fundraising) that do not depend on actually being in the leadership position.
Your arguments apply better when we are talking one of five, or one of one (certainly one of one)…but do not apply when it’s one of 200 plus. It’s arguing the last battle that was fought over a year ago.
It’s especially a poor argument when we are talking about a larger group when diversity throughout the membership actually can apply and is a strength to the group and where age in a few members can contribute positively without endangering overall vitality.
Brachiator
@wjca:
No, that would be your rules. I gave my standard and my reasons for it earlier.
I also made clear that I was not singling out Pelosi, but suggesting a general rule which I have not yet applied in any election. But to answer your question. My member of Congress is 70 years old.
Bupalos
She’s currently worth somewhere north of 300 million. I think she could do just fine for the party as a private citizen.
JWR
@Alison Rose:
Yikes! I just saw Moroccan security cam video of people running out of an ally, dust and debris falling all around. Many are dead. :(
And for all of you, I have a gripe. Why do so many phones default to portrait mode? (Yeah, selfies.) But I don’t have one of those things and wonder how hard it is to switch between portrait and landscape mode, especially when recording disasters. ETA don’t most phone cams respond immediately depending on the way it’s held?
NotMax
@JWR
Easier to hold with only one hand when vertical?
JWR
@NotMax:
Yeah, I suppose.
Unrelated Roku question: how do you type a space when searching? Also, my older unit is unable to save favorites, nor will an update help. But no big deal. I hardly ever use the thing anyway.
wjca
@Bupalos: You definitely have my sympathy. My (D) Assembly member has a devotion to the truth worthy of TIFG. I give thanks for term limits.
Geminid
@Bupalos: I often hear liberal Democrats complain that a Representative from a blue district is to the right of the district’s median Democratic voter. I think this usually is projection. Liberals tend to underestimate how moderate most Democratic voters are, even in districts like Pelosi’s. Ideological differences between Democratic House members, and between the people who vote for them, tend to be overstated anyway.
As for Pelosi throwing shade on the “Green Dream,” she was right to. That bill never should have been proposed in the form it was. I don’t care how good the intentions were, the underlying issue was too important for an incomplete, thematic approach. The legislation’s inadequacy was compounded by the slipshod FAQ sheet that quickly became the face of the bill. It was so embarrassing the Congresswoman whose staff generated it had to pretend it was sent out by mistake.
But these arguments speak to the real problem people have with Pelosi: not that Pelosi is too old, but that she is not liberal enough, and has prevented the “bold progressives” from driving party policy. Well she has, and she was right to do that too.
But at least your arguments are not as circular as the one asserting that by hanging on, senior members of Congress are preventing their younger potential replacements from accumulating seniority..
Ruckus
@TriassicSands:
I’m not disagreeing with you at all. I stated I’d like someone younger. Hell I retired not that long ago and have a hard time trying to recall why it took me so long. Oh yeah money. I added more to my SS account in my last 7 yrs of working than in my first 20 yrs, because wages then were just a tad less. So who are we going to replace her with? And isn’t there some deal about seniority?
It’s never easy or likely the right time to replace someone in a job that they’ve done for years/decades. I’ve been an employer in a business that takes a fair amount of time to learn the details, which are always the important part, other than not getting lost coming back from the restroom and I know that someone younger than retirement age most often works harder but not always better. However my last job project was grinding the diameter of 6 hardened steel pins to 25 millionths of an inch tolerance. That’s not a lot of wiggle room. My boss came in to check on me, started to say something and walked out. Because it was him or me, and he really, really wanted me to do the job, so he didn’t have to.
So as an old fart myself I don’t just believe you are right, I know you are, we need a younger group of legislators. Our time to work, to lead especially in our government, cannot be all old farts wishing for better days or a nap. Our legislative bodies operate with people whose lives are affected by what they do for all of us and their future, or at least it should.
All that said, there is at times an argument to be made that experience and knowledge can go a hell of a long way towards better outcomes.
hotshoe
I’m not within Pelosi’s district — I am in the same general region of the state — and I don’t see anyone in the region who I would vote to replace her.
Because I’m not strictly local, I admit I might be missing the names and accomplishments of some up-and-coming younger politicians.
But what I’m hearing, like “Pelosi is blocking the way of a fresh candidate”, seems to be divorced from reality. In reality, which younger/fresher Dem in SF is being held back to let Pelosi to run unopposed? Not just in the abstract sense that we should want to have someone young. Who, specifically?
Whoever, if they want to run, they can do the work to demonstrate that they are worth voting for.
Knowing that Nancy Pelosi intends to run for election in 2024, they have two more years to get support of the community for the election after that, 2026.
I do understand the point that we, as the Dem party, and as a nation, need to have young adults feel like they have a place in government — and they do need a chance to try out at a beginning level. City council. School boards.
Ten years from now could be a disaster when the remaining oldsters die or have to retire, while the youngsters have gotten no intermediate experience and aren’t ready to join up.
But that’s not Nancy Pelosi’s fault, and that’s not the immediate problem we will be facing of a MAGAt nation still baying for civil war in 2025 no matter who wins as President.
I want her in Congress representing the best ideals of our nation in 2025. Lord willing and the creek don’t rise …
Baud
@kindness:
As I’ve indicated before, I’ll take the age issue seriously when liberals start seriously criticizing Bernie Sanders for seeking reelection next year.
sab
@Baud: Agreed, especially since Senate terms are six years and House terms are only two. There was a world of difference with Feinstein running for her last term and what Pelosi is planning now.
Ruckus
@Alison Rose:
A lot of things slow down as one ages. And it’s different for each of us. We also, as humans, seem to like a lot more stability as we get up there in those year things. We like a lot of things a certain way because we like things a certain way. We often think about how things affect us, you know humanity. But we very often have a different idea about right and wrong, what to eat, drink, etc than youngsters do. And often we don’t think as fast, our reactions slow down, our bodies are, if not completely, worn out, getting there. We have a life limit, and a speed limit, very often quite different than when we were half our old fart ages. And for most humans the knowledge that the end is a lot closer than the start, can change you quite a bit in numerous ways, one of which is to care far more about where and how soon, rather than going out on Friday or Saturday night. And all of this may happen when we have a long or short time to go, because of course we don’t know the day/time of how far do we actually go. Unless we make it happen. Which is most often, frowned upon.
Ruckus
@Alison Rose:
This. All of this.
BellyCat
@Brachiator: In PA, and likely other states as many judicial rules are often shared, Senior Judges (who fill in as and where needed) have mandatory retirement at the end of the year they turn 78.
Jeffg166
@Brachiator: At 75 I wouldn’t vote for myself either. I think most of the elderly government officials have nap time scheduled into their days.
Pelosi does have a wealth of experience to advise the current house leadership members. For that I can see her sticking around.
Another Scott
Meh.
“More and better Democrats.” The House needs to flip to Democratic control. SF isn’t going to go GQP, so …
It’s hard to think of a better Democrat for our times than Pelosi. She’s continuing to do a great job. If SF wants her, and she can do the job, and she wants to do the job, then she should run. She’s a great representative for SF.
The energy spent on this thread could be spent on helping to elect more Democratic legislators in Virginia this November. If the GQP flips the state Senate, then Gov. Fuzzy Vest is going to be coming for all of you non-Virginians as well. Just sayin’.
Eyes on the prizes.
Have a good weekend, everyone.
Cheers,
Scott.
Princess
@Baud: yeah, the same people who are up in arms about Pelosi are crickets when it comes to Sanders. It’s almost like there’s something else they don’t like about her.
Geminid
@hotshoe: My impression is that the incoming classes of new Democratic Re have gotten progressively younger over the lsdt decade. I haven’t actually checked to see this is so, but I remember that a lot of members in the Cass of 2028 were in their 30s,ls or early 40s, and last year’s class was similar.
And I noticed that a commenter who complained about our gerontocracy just saw a 35 year-old win the Democratic primary in his district. Gabe Amo will likely win the special election to replace the outgoing David Cicciline, who I think is 20 years older.
Geminid
@Princess: There are probably a lot of people who think both are too old. But I think the issue matters more with a Senator. But you are right about a certain segment of people. Not all of them would self-identify as Democrats to begin with.
Kay
I love Pelosi but I’m disappointed. Her political instincts are usually much better. It’s not a great time to be furthering the “octogenarians in office” narrative. I also think there’s a lot to be said for going out on top. Sticking around too long isn’t even smart in terms of a legacy.
But she’s a genuinely rare talent so I give her some leeway and still admire her.
Betty
I am too late to the party, but based on what she said in her statement, I believe Nancy feels a responsibility to get Democrats through this critical 2024 election and will graciously retire after this 2 year term. I want younger reps too, but you have to consider the situation.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: I wonder if Clyburn and Hoyer will also run again.
Betty Cracker
@Another Scott:
The same is true of any thread about any topic on any blog. So what?
Fled the US
Pelosi does a lot of mentoring of young reps, particularly women. That is part of her major value that no one here has mentioned. She blazed the trail and is helping others follow. That is a major part of her value in the house.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
They’ll eventually get it. They’ll realize at some point a lot of the public thinks they don’t know when to bow out. I don’t think it’s going away.
I saw Kavanaugh is now backing SCOTUS ethics reforms. He’s responding to the fact that a large and growing swathe of the public think the court is corrupt. Sometimes you just have to give way to what people think.
Cacti
This.
Cacti
@Princess: Not me. Sanders can GTFO any time he feels like it.
Cacti
Pointing out that having a party ruled by octogenarians isn’t the best idea will always be a sensitive topic here at BJ.
The meetup photos always look like an AARP convention.
Kay
@Fled the US:
That isn’t optimal though. One would want mid career women to mentor early career women. The concern would be there would be a mid career group who weren’t brought up to become mentors. You’re skipping over the entire mid career group who should have been moving to senior status. There’s a hole.
Kay
@Fled the US:
So we’ll go from 80 year olds to 40-50 year olds in leadership. That’s not even optimal in terms of people with experience.
Geminid
@Geminid: Out of 32 Democrats in the House class of 2022, 22 are below age 50.
The 8 under age 40 include Maxwell Frost, 26, Delia Ramirez, 39; Gabe Vasquez, 38; Emilia Sykes, 37; Summer Lee, 35; Chris Delusio, 38; Seth Magaziner, 39; and Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, 34.
The 14 age 40-49 include Robert Garcia, 46; Brittany Petersen, 42; Jared Moscowitz, 43; Jill Tokuwa, 47; Nikki Budzinski, 46; Eric Sorenson, 46; Morgan McGarvey, 43; Hilary Scholten, 41; Rob Mendez; 4?; Dan Goldman, 47; Wiley Nickel, 47; Jeff Jackson, 40; Greg Landsman, 46; and Jasmine Crockett, 41.
Seven new Reps are age 50-59, and 3 are in their 60s.
If Gabe Amo wins the Rhode Island special election as expected, both of that state’s Representatives will be under 40. Amo will replace 62 year-old David Cicciline.
Geminid
@Kay: Not sure how Jeffries (52), Clark (60), and Aguilatlr (44) are not optimal in terms of experience. I know that some Democrats object to Jeffries being the Minority Leader, but not because of his age.
Gvg
The US is not a young demographic country. We are more spread out than we used to be but we have a large population of aging baby boomers. The ages are not evenly distributed around areas of the country either. I think that is going to impact voting choices and it probably should. Some areas are not likely to pick younger representation.
Young people can be underrepresented because they tend to not vote, or have historically. They have shown signs of getting wiser about that which is hopeful, but that won’t mean they are the only opinion any time soon, nor should they be led to believe they will be, or should be.
I live a long ways away and don’t know, but I have the impression from reading that Pelosi’s district is not as liberal as people assume. It was back in time, but as real estate became more expensive, that area became well, rich people not hippies. They are California rich people, so still liberal, but not leading edge lefty, especially about finance (I think). I really could be wrong though. Whomever replaces her, may not be especially notable.
Brit in Chicago
@Gin & Tonic: In general I kind of agree: not so good to have the highest levels of government occupied by people in their late-70s or older. But in this case I absolutely disagree. Nancy Smash has more than earned the right to make that call for herself: the most brilliant and effective Speaker since I don’t know when, and acting for the good of the country, not herself of the party. (OK: good of the country as she perceived it, but then I agree with her.)
I sort of feel the same about Joe Biden. Yes, I wish he were 20 years younger, but his being him, just the person we need at this time, is more important than that.
Brit in Chicago
@Eric S.: “Pelosi seems capable.”
I’m English by upbringing and, perhaps as a result, tend to prefer understatement to overstatement. But this goes too far. Seems capable! Yes, and Einstein seems to have been a pretty important physicist, Beethoven to have been a pretty important musician….
Another Scott
@Betty Cracker: True!
Grousing is the way things work around here, isn’t it?
:-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
@BellyCat:
Interesting.
Thank you for this information.
California does not appear to have a mandatory retirement age. One source I saw says that in Vermont, the retirement age for judges is 90.
Alison Rose
@Cacti: I’m 43 and I’m in support of this “octogenarian” who has done more for the country than any single person on this blog.
This thread has been so weird. Everyone (or at least almost everyone) on this blog has always loved Nancy SMASH and cheered her on. Now it’s “go away old lady”. Reminds me of when Hillary Clinton talked about how unpopular she was when she was running for something, and how popular she was once she won it. HOW VERY CURIOUS.
Anyway, I guess this argument is pointless, both because those of you who have decided that Nancy is two days away from certain death and is 150% out of touch with anyone my age or younger will never change that view, and because Nancy is gonna run despite your personal distaste for her decision.
Let’s call the whole thing off and celebrate Caturday like God intended.
Doug R
Healthy 83 year old running for a 2 year term is MUCH BETTER than someone with health issues who’ll be in the their 90s at the end of a 6 year term.
Kay
@Geminid:
The assertion was we were ignoring Pelosi’s role as a mentor to younger women. Since two of those three are men I’m not sure it backs the claim. They can be men. Fine with me. I’ll just need something else to show how it is essential she remain as a mentor to women in the House.
Biden doesn’t benefit from a continuing narrative around how old all these people are. That’s not fair but it is true. I’m surprised she got the politics wrong. It’s why you sometimes need someone else to give you advice on your own career – she’s too close to it.
Geminid
@Kay: It’s other people who keep raising Pelosi’s role as mentor, not me. I consider her strength to be her persuasive abilities. The House majorities for critical legislation in the last Congress were not a given. I give Pelosi some credit for the cohesiveness of the narrow Democratic majority. The members themselves deserve credit also.
This is why I am glad she will be around for the next Congress. After that, I think Pelosi should retire, and I think she wiill.
Bupalos
@Geminid: Points taken. Fair arguments and delivered without inflated language. I’m not in full agreement that Pelosi’s cutting remarks were either strictly limited to the GND’s parliamentary immaturity nor where the damage primarily landed. But that’s a question of interpretation and it’s certainly not as simple as her only being less interested in addressing climate change than I think she should be. Though I do think she’s less interested in climate change than she should be. I think as a class the hyper-incumbent gerontocracy is going to exhibit a bone-deep satiety at odds with treating our current crisis as a crisis.
I’m realizing that a lot of the disagreement here may have to do with a kind of dismay and visceral reaction at finding ourselves politically where we are as a country. In a better America under less democratic stress, the kind of political phenomena represented by the lag end of Biden and Pelosi’s careers wouldn’t really have a place. But that’s not the America we’re in, and I can’t claim to have any kind of well thought out plan to get there.
I think my whole reaction boils down to “this isn’t what our politics should look like.”
Miss Bianca
@Bupalos: Oh, you know what? Go fuck yourself. You’re on track to becoming the most tiresome sea lion on this blog, but that’s not exactly a distinction you should be feeling proud of.
Kay
@Geminid:
Oh, I think she’s great. Hugely talented. In a group of about 5 great pols of the last 50 years. But you can always tell yourself you’re “essential”. It is never going to be a good time for her to leave. If I were her friend I would tell her to go out on top :)
Feinstein ruined her own legacy and so did RBG (IMO). This doesn’t even benefit the people who do it.
But I admire Pelosi and one bad decision after so many great ones is forgiveable and human.
Geminid
I think Pelosi will go out on top. If the next Congress has a Democratic House majority- and I think it will- they will pass some important legislation, and she will play her part, in her legislative role and also as an advocate with a national platform.
Ruckus
@Alison Rose:
I know old farts because I live in a 144 unit seniors complex, where you have to be over 55 to rent here and because I am one, and am way past 55. About half the people here are retired. I still worked when I moved here, retired 2 yrs ago. The oldest that I know of is 97.
My point is this post is getting so weird, in that many of the people here in this complex are still sharp as razor blade at 3/4 of a century and beyond. Each of us are different and all humans age out differently. I commented about this yesterday, gave a Wiki link to a list of the hundred oldest people in the world, how long they lived. Oldest lived 122 yrs. Youngest lived 114 yrs 6 months. Now sure not many get that far but some do. Others are like my cousin, who made 6 months. It’s a crap shoot. Ya takes your chances, do what you can and get what you get. We have vaccines for a lot of the diseases that disabled or killed you, including the current one, for which there are 3. Science works. It works far better than it did when I was a kid, and polio was debilitating and killing people and the only vaccine was for smallpox. There will always be people that think they are above it all – and aren’t. There will always be some that go on a lot longer than average, just like there are some that only make it 6 months, that’s how we get to average. That and the stupidity of a portion of humanity. And even there the range is wide.
Ruckus
@Bupalos:
Democracy isn’t about forming a government that makes the best, wisest decisions. You can go to the Plato’s Republic for that. It’s about a government that represents the people and brings in the active participation of the people.
You have got to be fucking kidding me. You want a government that works to the least rather than the best for all?
Nancy Pelosi is a citizen of this country just like every other citizen. The entire point of a democracy is to get the people’s input so that the people we elect can lead and govern reasonably for ALL. Most any country is big enough any more that the people can’t run it, it requires a reasonably sized group to do the job. People like Nancy Pelosi. Sure it would be good if they weren’t all old enough to be receiving Social Security. But it would be worse if they were all 25 and didn’t give a shit about those 3 to 4 times their age. Life done well takes effort and experience and knowledge. Not every one has all the right degrees of each. Some do at an early age, some never get there.
It’s fucking humanity, not a class project. And do fucking understand that the view from the late stages is far different than the early stages. Because no matter how smart or how stupid one is, the most important part of life is actually living.
Not one of us will ever be the perfect human.
It’s not about making the best and wisest decisions. So it’s about being fucking stupid. Well you win the internets today. Good bye.
OK something is going on here. I can smell. I haven’t been able to for about 8 yrs and I just got a whiff of something. I don’t recognize it but this is fucking weird as hell.
hotshoe
@Ruckus:
Good morning.
Just checked in on last night’s thread and saw this note from you about smelling something weird — and now I’m worried / hoping you’re alright.
I don’t see a comment from you in a newer thread today.
If you see this, please let us know how your smell experience is turning out ;)
Bupalos
@Ruckus: Name checks out.
Look, I’m making a point of political theory that isn’t particularly novel or actually controversial. Your confusing it with a kind of hostility to democracy and getting angry at the image you are projecting. Dial it back and understand this is a THEORETICAL point: The idea of coalition democracy and its strength isn’t superiority in wise decision making or ability to find the wise leaders that can more successfully manipulate the levers of power behind the scenes.
Bupalos
@Miss Bianca: The degree of outright anger some of my offerings engender here often surprises me. I honestly don’t get how this is so offensive to you that I think the gerontocracy is a symptom of things gone wrong. But I looked up “sealioning” and while I can’t see how it quite applies as I don’t badger anyone to evidence their own statements, it’s suggests to me that the problem is in being civil and you not accepting that could be a sincere civility.
Of course, this is going to sound too civil too after the “hey fuck off” stuff, so YOUR FATHER SMELLS OF ELDERBERRIES!!!
PJ
@TriassicSands:
Do you have any data that demonstrates younger voters turn out more for younger candidates? Because, anecdotally, it seems like they are less likely to vote than other age groups regardless of the candidate.
Geminid
@PJ: The Georgia Senate runoff on January 5, 2021 provide an interesting data point on this question. Two Democrats were on the ballot: 33 year-old Jon Ossoff and 51 year-old Raphael Warnock. They ran virtually even, with Ossoff lagging Warnock by only 20,000 out of ~4.4 million votes.
But I cannot estimate how many younger voters Ossoff attracted who voted for Warnock also. I believe that visible representation matters though, and I think the now-36 year old Ossoff could be an asset for Democrats nationally, as can be the Party younger House members.
Arizona Rep. Ruben Gallego is 38 years old and his relative youth could be an asset in his Senate campaign, especially with younger Hispanics. Figures for new registrations may shed some light on this question.
The registration numbers will be worth watching, as will the race in general. Arizona has progressed from a red state to a purple one, and younger voters may be one key to turning the state blue.
Ruckus
@hotshoe:
The big deal was that I was smelling at all. My sense of smell disappeared 7- 8 yrs ago. Docs can’t find any reason and sometimes this just happens as we move into old fartdom. But last night I smelled something all of a sudden. Nothing bad, but my smelling experience is rather out of practice and I could not identify what I was smelling. Or actually believe it. The sensation of smell was there for a moment but I’m back to everything smells like nothing. There is a possible explanation which I won’t go into here but none of my docs can find a plausible answer. I get to be a medical mystery!
And thanks for the concern, but everything is back to normal – all screwed up. Don’t need to change my life at this point and make something work normal. I mean normal is so boring!