I’ve been following this New Zealander recently – mainly because his hobby is restoring old cars and turning them into EVs – it’s pretty simple, in the scheme of things. Probably easier and less costly than restoring an old combustion engine. From there, I found out he also reviews EV cars in New Zealand – by driving all around New Zealand, which is fun on many levels, to me anyway. As you’ll see in this video, he also represents an electric company in New Zealand that uses only renewables and he has expanded to reviewing larger EV equipment.
I’m excited to see that electric technology is moving into more and more diesel engine territory. And when I have time, I’ll go looking for USA examples. But for now, I enjoy his excitement for all things electric.
So this video led me to do a little exploring on lithium iron phosphate batteries – especially their flammability. Turns out one of their properties is they are slow to burn when pierced (they will burn once pierced, but it can take up to 8-minutes+ at a slow burn vs. bursting into flames).
And that led me back to Matt Ferrell and his video on some of the current battery technologies:
I also have some videos and articles on battery life and recycling that we can cover in another post (before the “but what about recycling and environmental hazards” crew weighs in on this post).
Anyway, that’s what I’ve been doing in my spare time this week, watching all things EV. I am digging more into the IRA and Rewiring America but it is still at the overwhelming and not quite concise stage, so I’m waiting to write an update on all of it. CO seems to be dragging its feet on guidance, if your state is doing better, let me know and get me links, pretty please.
I was looking at taking advantage of electrifying my house this year with the incentives, but a new roof derailed my plans. I will start again on that research and keep y’all in the loop.
Anyone looking at purchasing an EV this year? Looks like there will be some good tax credits (info here and here) and some rebates, make sure your dealer is knowledgeable before you buy. Kelley Blue Book has a breakdown by state of cash rebates available, here. Of course, double-check with your state for requirements.
Nukular Biskits
I don’t know if it will be this year, but I’ve been looking at the Chevy Bolt. It has the range to get me to/from work without needing a charge and I could plug it in overnight.
trollhattan
Got myself an e-bike. No current plans for an EV, while keeping a side-eye on the spouse’s vee-hickle, which has about 105k on the clock and you never can guess when the repair/replace scale will tilt to the latter.
Tesla ownership has exploded at my workplace–it seems engineers are fond of them. Inside one I feel like I’m in a refrigerator. Stark with a capital S. Neighbors have a VW ID.4 and down the street is an EV Mustang thingie. In general, EVs are becoming common here (NorCal). Helps that our grid on sunny days is >50% renewables, so no coal-to-car mess. Also, too, gas is about $5.50 atm.
Hungry Joe
@Nukular Biskits: We have a 2020 Chevy Bolt, and we like everything about it. The new models are a little bigger but have about the same range: 260 miles, give or take. Heating and A/C — especially heating — drain miles, but here in San Diego we never turn on the heater because the seat and steering-wheel warmers are all we need, and they don’t use very many electrons.
Our second car is a 2015 Nissan Leaf. Used to get 95-100 miles on a charge, but that has dwindled to 75-80 — which is plenty for a #2, just-tooling-around-town car.
The main disadvantage to owning an EV is that your windows tend to be dirty: no gas-station squeegee privileges.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
I purchased a lightly used 2020 Nissan Leaf last year. It has limited range (~140 miles), but is a nice drive. Perfect for nearly all of my driving. I’m not much of a car guy, but I’ve been very satisfied with it overall.
My spouse is waiting for Toyota’s upcoming solid state batteries that hold more charge and charge up really fast.
We replaced our gas furnace with a Heat Pump HVAC in Jan. I still haven’t figured out how to claim the IRA credits yet, but the AC has been a nice bonus this summer!
Still need to replace the gas hot water heater and stovetop…
comrade scotts agenda of rage
A good friend of mine in Santa Fe has done two electric conversions over the last decade, one’s a Miata. He used ancient tech by today’s standards so it has no range but my god it’s a rocket. Last year he purchased an E-Mustang. He’s also totally solar/battery at home. He’s putting his ancient engineering skills to good use.
Funny you should post this given you’re also up the road from me in a manner of speaking (I’m in Denver proper). I ordered a Bolt EV on 10 July and GM “still hasn’t accepted the order”, meaning GM doesn’t want to build what I ordered because it’s not got enough extra crap or higher trim line. This is typical GM idiocy. Potential Bolt owners nationally are dealing with this, you wait endlessly for an order that might not “be accepted” but still scour availability in a moronically large circle.
So, instead it appears I’ll probably be purchasing a Bolt back in Misery at a Chevy dealer nearest to where we used to live in East Anklescratch. It’s already on the lot. Thus, today is basically trying to get paperwork done and deposit made, then work out traveling back there, either on my own or thru work.
Then it’ll be plotting out a drive back b/c that’s what you do on road trips in a Bolt.
Righteous Hazard
I have been trying to break my addiction to political social media, because I find that it inspires me to anger and rage far more often than it inspires me to action. I have been trying to return to just using websites like BJ to keep me informed and active about what has to be done. But the bad anger/rage habits I formed around crappy social media are still a problem. It isn’t the website’s problem, it is me.
So I love seeing this kind of post. I am here for the activist politics, but I need this is the kind of post to keep switching my brain on to a better track. Thx
trollhattan
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I read GM pulled the current Bolt to replace it with one using their newer battery technology. Are you maybe caught up in the changeover?
I get a headache trying to sift through the federal and state EV rebate/tax incentives. What qualifies, who qualifies, price caps, income caps, no pink cars, etc. It’s a mess.
Lyrebird
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Thanks for the scoop! I’ve done that trip, and even though KS is flat it slopes, dunnit? Hope you find charging stations aplenty somehow.
@Nukular Biskits: I’m also wondering, and I have heard that most of the rebates are for US-made vehicles only… appreciating Tamara putting the links up for all those resources.
This review does not mention the Chevy Bolt at all, but the Leaf comes out pretty well. Those are probably the two options I could consider getting new, though I haven’t checked the price on a Niro, which also came out well.
Nukular Biskits
@Hungry Joe:
For weekday transportation to my job (round trip about 75 miles), the Bolt would fit the bill.
I’d say that the A/C is a must here in the MS Gulf Coast but I’ve been driving my 2002 F150 w/o A/C for several months; i.e., 4/70 air conditioning – 4 windows down, 70 mph.
Seriously, based on the MSRP and the tax credit, it looks to be a pretty good deal.
A while back, I though Telsa might be the way to go but, given their quality issues, not to mention the raging a-hole in charge of the company, I’m no longer inclined to go that route.
CaseyL
No plans to get an EV this year because, like Mrs.@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:, I am looking forward to Toyota rollong out those solid state, huge range hatteries.
Unless my Scion dies a premature death (FSM forbid). I’m not sure what I’d do then, though I am fond of the Chevy Bolt.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@trollhattan:
More GM idiocy. They announced earlier in the year they were gonna halt production and end the Bolt entirely in late summer…then two weeks later pushed it back to early Nov…then 2 months later pushed it back until the end of the year.
In the meantime, they somewhat changed course in saying that the while the current Bolt’s run would end at the end of the year, they had decided to “bring it back” using the new battery tech that’s the foundation of all their other EVs in the pipeline.
Problem there is that none of those other EVs are actually on the street. Given their emphasis on those EVs, saying “We’re gonna bring back the Bolt at some point” means squat for anybody wanting to take advantage of Federal (and in my case really good) state tax credits.
As car commentators have put it, this is another typical GM mindset in that they *finally* have worked all the bugs out of a design, have a great car at a great price and decide “we’ve had enough”.
Jager
@trollhattan:
We’re SoCal Chevy Volt owner(s). We leased a Volt 8 years ago when the lease was up we bought a new one. With the EV car deal from SoCal Edison, the electricity costs us 28 a month.
All the negativity about EVs is BS, stories about driving them on long-distance trips, etc. Most Americans drive short distances on a daily basis. In SoCal the average is just under 15k a year, that’s 41 miles a day. With a newer EV, you’d have to charge once or twice a week…for short money. My executive wife has her eyes on next year’s new Mercedes C Class EV. With its 400-mile range, she’d only have to plug it in 2 or 3 times a month.
HumboldtBlue
I’m in the terrible position of HAVING to buy a fucking car because public transportation is fucking nonexistent. I’d rather yank my own teeth out of my head with pliers, but what the fuck am I gonna do?
It’s just gonna be a money suck, $20-$25k to buy, another grand or two in insurance, and then fuel and maintenance. I haven’t owned a car for more than two years because I can work from home and borrow my buddy’s truck for errands once a week or so, but that arrangement is coming to an end and I gotta get some wheels.
I don’t think I’m gonna go full EV because I still live behind the Redwood Curtain and EV infrastructure hasn’t made its way here yet, but sweet mother of a walk to the store, I don’t want to own another car.
Righteous Hazard
@trollhattan:
I really think that people need to go electric bike before car, wherever possible. While I think this is mostly true for everyone, it especially important for those of us who are diy-ers.
I started my diy electrification journey small: I bought a diy electric skateboard kit, and built it for my and my son’s use. My next project is going to be getting a mid-drive kit to electrify a one of the commuter bikes in the garage. Assuming the skateboard hasn’t killed or disabled me by then, I hope to have at least a basis to understand how I might go about electrifying one of our cars.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Nukular Biskits:
It’ll be interesting to see how Teslas built over the last several years do when the warranty runs out. As a couple of my gear head friends say “They have the build quality of a 1980 Chevy Citation”.
And they’re judging the car purely on the car, not the raging a-hole associated with the brand.
They are everywhere here in Denver because there’s so damn much money here in Denver. Just last week I saw a Jag EV, a Bentley (not an EV) and a Lamborghini within 3 days of each other.
Kelly
Diesel engines have been prefered for equipment for torque and robustness compared to gasoline engines. Electric motors have even better useful torque and minimal maintenance. The vegetable cannery I worked at in the 1970’s had electric forklifts to work in the warehouse sized freezers. With lead acid batteries the size of a washing machine they didn’t need a counterweight. Operators all agreed the were better machines but more expensive than gasoline of propane powered. Electric seems promising when your job site has access to the electric grid.
Denali5
I’m pretty happy with my hybrid Prius. I do need to recharge it fairly often. But I won’t get stuck on the highway if the battery runs out.
TaMara
I forgot to post this in the main body, but here’s a Canadian winter review of an LFP battery. I should probably track down some for the other battery ranges, too.
randal sexton
I’m waiting for my ford lightning truck. Which I think of as a giant battery with wheels. One big reason for this vehicle is it allows you to use the battery as a power supply which I will use via the built in 9.6 kilowatt inverter. A split phase (which means can supply 240 v ac) inverter. This can be a backup generator for my home!! This is called vehicle 2 building/home/grid. A quiet generator. With enough power to run my well pump.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@TaMara:
Go to:
http://www.chevybolt.org
and poke around. The guy who runs it lives in Boulder.
nickdag
For anyone interested, I really like this independent journalist whose speciality is energy. He’s had many fascinating podcast episodes.
https://www.volts.wtf
Kelly
Could a California jackal weigh in on California’s upcoming small gasoline engine ban? What I’ve read seems rather sweeping. I don’t know of any manufacturer making large battery chainsaws.
Lyrebird
@HumboldtBlue: Feel free to ignore this:
What about getting one of those really lightweight EVs, like a step or two above a golf cart, if you have any way to charge it at home? A friend of mine who lives in Cali got one used for very cheap… then dial up Enterprise or whoever you like once or twice a month when you need to get further away or haul something heavy?
Another friend of the family lived in suburbia with no car for more than five years doing regular rentals, but they at least had some bus service. I was working in NM once in a science heavy town with buses like twice a day, morning and evening. I missed the bus once, slept at the office, that gets OLD.
Barney
My English town council just announced it’s buying some electric garbage trucks. They say an overnight charge is enough for the whole day, and about a tenth of the price of diesel in the UK (remembering diesel has more tax on here than in the US).
rekoob
Earlier this year, I bought a Tenways e-bike, and it’s been great. There are a lot of trails near me (coastal Delaware) and the Tenways is more of an assist, rather than a self-propelled e-bike. I have been following the Ultium platform, developed by General Motors, which is making its way into a number of vehicles, including boats (Pure Watercraft). I’m planning to go on the list for the Acura ZDX when it opens up later this year. It’s on the Ultium platform and has some nice features that its stablemates (Cadillac Lyriq, Chevrolet Blazer EV, and Honda Prologue) don’t have. GM has had some difficulties getting the Ultium production line up and running, but with any luck, they’ll be up to speed in the next 6-12 months. I’ve also joined waiting lists for the Microlino and the Meyers Manx EV. I was sorry to see that Morgan decided not to go with an EV version of its iconic 3-wheeler, but the Manx might be just as much fun, and would be a better beach buggy, anyway
GM seems to be working hard on building out the charging infrastructure, working with EVGo and Pilot/Flying J for more locations along major routes. Moving to the North American Charging Standard (NACS) will also open up all the Tesla network over time.
Kent
Like Trollhatan I bought an ebike intstead of an EV. Don’t regret it. I commute 13 miles each way diagonally across the Vancouver WA metro area by e-bike at about 25 mph. Takes me 30-35 min depending on how I hit the lights. By car it is 20 min. It is a Specialized Turbo Vado 5.0 which is a fairly high-end ebike but well worth it for serious commuting. I’d buy the same exact bike again.
My actual car is a 2016 Prius with about 100,000 miles that I’ll keep driving until it dies, unless I pass it on to my daughter at some point. She is a HS senior and mostly uses the car now as her HS car. She is threatening to go to WSU out in eastern WA. For her freshman year in the dorms it sounds like cars are unnecessary but I suspect at some point she’ll want to have a car out there so I’d give her the Prius and buy an EV. But I’m hoping to postpone that day as long as possible.
If I were shopping today I’d be very curious about the 800 volt Hyundai models like the Ioniq 6 which looks like a real Tesla killer. But I’m hoping that I can put off the EV purchase long enough so that even better newer models will be available. It is absolutely certain that my next vehicle purchase will be an EV and not a hybrid or gas vehicle. But I’m hoping to push that day off as long as possible. The Prius still works just fine.
Hungry Joe
@Nukular Biskits: You won’t lose that many miles using the A/C, esp. if you set the Automatic temp function at say, 72 or 73 degrees. With the fan(s) that feels just fine, and it takes a fair amount of energy to knock off another few degrees — to 68 or 69 — and keep the temp there.
NotMax
Were I in the market for an economical and practical EV and in no dire immediate need I’d hold off until Fisker PEAR production begins.
BTW, the concept for the next generation Tesla is fugly to da max.
Righteous Hazard
@Denali5: My brother has one of the plug-in hybrid Prius models, which allowed me to get a good look at it mechanically, and GODDAMN it is a beautiful piece of engineering.
The electric motors are INSIDE the axles, where they are bathed in coolant/lubricant, and really close to the wheels. That kind of direct drive is efficient and elegant. I note that Toyota makes a AWD version of that car as well, which is just gold for rural users who face more challenging road conditions.
I cannot love those Prius plug in hybrids more, and if I was in the market for a commuter vehicle, they would be my 1A choice.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@NotMax:
Yeah but if you’re into cosplaying the original Battlestar Gallactica TV series, it’s a must have if you’re a Xylon!
randal sexton
@Righteous Hazard: I also have a Prius prime. It’s great. I can go 28 miles between plugging it in and then drive it from Santa Clara to anacortes which I’m doing right now. Mine is 2018 but the new model year is much refreshed and goes 40 miles between charges.
glc
My current 2005 car may flunk inspection this month, so we’ll see. I’d been vaguely thinking of a Bolt if there were no major changes – until major changes were announced. It seems like this is not the right time for that particular brand, and we don’t really know what that even means now.
I’d like a reasonably cheap reliable car that will mostly go to the supermarket and occasionally 70 miles round trip to the airport.
JDM
@Kelly:
I don’t know specifics, but was curious, and found a review that sounds reasonable. Bottom line: sounds like electric chainsaws are better than I would’ve thought.
https://www.outdoorlife.com/gear/best-electric-chainsaws/
Kent
@Righteous Hazard: The new Prius Primes are indeed very nice vehicles.
But as a current Prius owner (non-plug in model) I’ve basically decided I’m not going to get another hybrid. It is really the belt and suspender approach to have a vehicle with BOTH a gas engine and electric motor. In an urban/suburban setting where you don’t have daily home charging available it would be the right choice. Also if you really do drive long distances in remote areas with a sparcity of chargers.
But for the urban/suburban commuter who parks in their own garage or drive way every night and doesn’t really ever drive more than 100-200 miles/day except for the rare road trip then I don’t see the point of a hybrid anymore. Every dime of money for repairs and maintenance that I have dropped into the Prius is due to the gas engine. Oil changes, coolant, transmission fluid, catalytic converter, etc, etc. They all add up. And I’ve had to deal with heat exchanger problems with means an expensive catalytic converter replacement or a DIY jury-rigged bypass which I did myself but not everyone would be capable of.
With an EV you avoid every bit of that.
gene108
I’d go for a plug-in hybrid, if I had to buy a new car. I live in a condo. Home charging isn’t an option for me.
The ShopRite near me has a car charger station setup in their parking lot. I pay a subscription to use the chargers. Otherwise any type of plug-in vehicle would not be even possible for me.
I have a short commute to work. The EV mode would last a few days without needing charging.
Fake Irishman
Dr. Mrs. Fake Irishman got a Mach E this summer. She loves it.
Hungry Joe
@HumboldtBlue: Couldn’t you just toggle between Uber/Lyft and the occasional U-Haul rental? Might come to less than owning a car. Annual insurance cost: $0.00. Annual fuel cost: $0.00.* Annual maintenance cost: $0.00. Annual license & registration fee: $0.00. Crunch the numbers.
* Okay, a few bucks for U-Haul fuel.
dm
My Swytch e-bike conversion arrived and I finally had the time to put it on my bike.
Whoa, ebikes are a religious experience.
By “flattening hills” they make a lot more trips tempting by bike (especially around a city with a fair amount of bike infrastructure).
I went car-free for ten years once the nest emptied until the pandemic and in-laws’ declining health made Zipcar seem iffy. I much prefer that, and will probably return to that style as soon as possible. But I’d organized my life around freedom from cars — always had jobs I could walk to until this year.
Jager
@Kelly:
I told my yard guys they could plug into my house when the ban kicks in. They do the yard on Wednesday, closing the windows is mandatory or the house fills with 2-cycle gas fumes.
Several of my neighbors have beautiful old cars. When the showroom-perfect 55 Chevy Belair drives by its fumes hang in the air.
Jager
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Designed for Mars, man.
Geminid
In the area of home batteries, I’ve read that calcium-ion batteries being developed now are catching up to the efficiency of lithium-ion batteries. The calcium-ion batteries are heavier, so they may not be practical EV batteries, but calcium is more plentiful and cheaper, so these batteries may have utility in fixeed applications like house batteries.
Another Scott
@Hungry Joe:
rofl*.
Cheers,
Scott.
trollhattan
@Kelly: There is local hand-wringing over the impact on the show-mow-blow folks. Here’s a capsule summary:
I hate gas blowers with a purple passion and they can’t be gone too soon. So much time and energy to blast dust off sidewalks and gutters so it can land on a different sidewalk, gutter, people’s lungs, but with bonus exhaust! At least this gets rid of the exhaust.
rekoob
One wrinkle many may not have seen about the Inflation Reduction Act and electric vehicles: while there are hefty incentives for cars built in the US (or under the USMCA), there’s also an incentive for non-US built EVs that are leased, rather than bought:
EVs Eligible for Leasing
Leasing may be an attractive option, especially since the technology is getting better with each successive generation.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@trollhattan: I hope this comes to Oregon soon.
trollhattan
@JDM: I have a Greenworks 80V chainsaw (and string trimmer and blower) that’s as big and powerful as I’ll ever need, but I’m not felling 30-inch ponderosa pines either.
Also rather invested in the Dewalt 20V powertool system. They don’t replace gas anything but ditch the annoying and sometimes hazardous cord, so big fan. Very powerful and I find no downside versus corded.
BretH
Guess I’m lucky. 2012 Prius I bought six years ago for about $7000, gets a steady 50mpg, can drive it to the mother in laws house without worrying about charge, spent maybe $2500 total in maintenance and repairs at 140,000 miles. Since I’m cheap I’d consider another in a heartbeat.
Kelly
@JDM:
@Jager:
All our yard tools are electric. Stihl string trimmer is much handier than gas. The 12 inch battery Stihl chainsaw is much better than a gas saw for my purposes. I could not saw a cord of firewood in a day or fall a big tree. I’m to old for those projects anyway. I wonder how commercial loggers will manage.
Mower has a cord. When mowing wet grass I can flip it over and clear it out without draining gasoline. I like not storing gasoline.
wjca
This. Plus, it drops the noise level significantly.
Ruckus
Well I’m getting to the age of thinking of selling my car and not driving. I walked to work for 2 yrs and am now retired so I go to the store and drive to the electric train station that’s 2 1/2 miles away if I need to travel farther. And there is a bus that takes me to the train. The train takes me across LA for my medical needs and it costs 35 cents to travel 45 miles for a senior. I have a car that gets almost 30mpg around town and can get over 40 on trips. But I’m thinking of selling it. The car insurance money that I don’t spend would pay for all the bus and train rides several times over and there would be one less old fart driving. Some would say that’s a win-win.
trollhattan
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Fingers crossed on your behalf. I don’t think it’s recognized a little gas yard tool can emit more pollution than a modern gasoline auto (CO2 excepted). We’re in a non-attainment air pollution region and every source eliminated inches us closer to meeting air quality goals (PM2.5, NOX, ozone).
Construction equipment, stationary generators are other significant sources.
Ripley
I’ll + for the e-bike experience. I bought a Rad Power RadCity 4 in Nov and love it so far. If you’re in a place where biking makes some sense, it’s a great tool for commuting.
trollhattan
@Kelly: A happy day is was when the lawn was finally removed and replaced with perennials, and I could give away the old Toro.
Still hate pulling weeds, but what are you going to do? Frankly, as more lawns are removed, the gardeners should transition to yardcare in lieu of lawn care. Fewer than half the homes in our neighborhood have a lawn, and I’d gladly pay them to pull the damn weeds. They can skip the blower because that just blasts the mulch away.
JoyceH
I loved my 2009 Prius, but even when it was my only car, I felt kinda guilty hogging all that great gas mileage as little as I drove. Then I inherited my sister’s car, which gets much worse mileage but was brand new at the time and had two things I didn’t even know I wanted till I had them – heated seats and a back-up camera. So I sold the Prius and imagine it out doing its bit on some long commute to the city. I suppose when the time comes for a new car, I’ll get either an electric or a plug-in hybrid, but I’m dreading the prospect of… cleaning out the garage!
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
As stated here many times I live in CA in a multi building apartment complex. 140 units in 11 buildings. Every monday the gardeners show up at 8am and mow and blow. Place is well kept up but electric tools would be extremely welcomed. But notice, do they have to no longer use gas powered or can they just not purchase them?
Another Scott
We replaced both our cars this year:
Me: 2004 VW Jetta TDI Wagon -> 2023 Kia Niro PHEV SX (paid list, around $41k).
J: 2000 Toyota Corolla CE -> 2015 Prius C One with about 60,000 miles. (around $15k). She wanted something small, and the Prius keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger (and she thinks the Niro is too big).
After we got the Prius C, I spent $11 for an app (to use with a BlueTooth OBD2 app) to check the traction battery health – it’s fine.
The Niro PHEV SX is rated at 31 miles all electric range and I routinely get around 40 driving gently. I charge it overnight (at 120V) every other night in the driveway.
The Prius C gets around 50 MPG (we haven’t paid too much attention) – a nice step up from around 30 in the Corolla.
Used car prices are still kinda high, but worth considering if you look around carefully (and are scared by $30-40-50k vehicle prices).
Cheers,
Scott.
(“Who remembers when one could buy a new care for $1999…”)
JoyceH
@Ruckus:
A friend of mine moved to a condo right across the river from DC. I thought she was crazy to sell her car, but she gets around fine. She can walk to the Metro station, she Ubers, and when she wants to go somewhere on the weekend, she rents a car. Seems to work pretty well for her.
rekoob
Another great source for videos and information on electrification is Fully Charged:
Fully Charged
The team is hosting a live event in Vancouver this weekend, and there have been several interesting videos about British Columbia and its efforts to reduce its carbon footprint. The car reviews are a lot of fun.
Almost Retired
Mrs. Almost Retired has a Prius plug in hybrid. She commuted from the South Bay to the San Fernando Valley every day (it’s far….and one must share the 405 with many, many assholes).
Bonus number one was the ability to use the carpool lane as a solo driver. Bonus number two was the excellent infrastructure in Los Angeles. She was able to recharge at work. Months would go by without needing gas.
Now that she’s retired, we’re taking it on our Third Annual Epic Fall Road Trip next week (I figure if I capitalize it, it’s more likely to become a tradition). We usually get around 60 miles per gallon on the open road, depending on average speed. However, my paternal great-grandfather was a polar bear, so I tend to crank up the AC, which is hard on mileage. But overall a great vehicle for in town and road trips. Like others above, when my gas guzzling Passat gives up the geist (it has 190,000 miles), I’m looking at an e-bike. Which is perfect for this area.
trollhattan
@Ruckus: My assumption is only the sale is banned. Nevada is about three hours away on a good day, so….
We do have a local ban on gas yard equipment when a spare the air day is declared, but it seems simply ignored and IDK what the enforcement mechanism may be.
BK in NJ
I don’t know if your new roof has already happened or if electrifying your house involves rooftop solar panels, but when I had mine installed I had the solar company arrange for a new roof as part of the project. I got to include the cost of the roof in the cost of of solar panels and got the tax credit on all of it.
Kelly
I clean my gutters with a 6.5 hp shop vac. I have enough extensions to reach a 20 foot gutter from the ground and and an elbow attachment on the end. Mom has a 30′ high gutter that I can clean leaning out the windows. I used to get up on the roofs with a leaf blower which left a mess on the ground to clean up. Mrs Kelly is happy I’m staying off the roofs.
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
A lot of the gardeners that I see hate gas powered tools as well. They constantly have to purchase gas and many of the blowers are 2 cycle engines, which means they have to mix oil with the gas. And the operator has that noise in their ears 100% of the time. Just looked at Home Depot leaf blowers for sale. 5 pages and only 15 of them were gas powered. So maybe 1/5 of listed blowers were gas powered. The rest were battery operated. It’s going the way of batteries if they like it or not.
NotMax
Not EV by any means, but starts right up 110+ years on (1:47 – 5:50 in video).
;)
trollhattan
@Ruckus:
I do wonder about their hearing and the effects of inhaling exhaust every day, all day. Protection is usually limited to a bandana worn over the face.
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
IDK what the enforcement mechanism may be.
Wanna bet there isn’t one? Or, there might be 4 people in Sacramento, who don’t travel to say LA county where 9 million people live so I’d bet enforcement might be considered somewhat lax. Or each county/city is required to enforce this law, which will work so very well. But the times they are always a-changing. When the old blowers/mowers wear out and the only thing sold is electric, electric it will be.
Another Scott
@Kent: i was persuaded by the “double the complexity” argument of hybrids and PHEVs too, initially.
But, really, it’s not like that.
I keep my Niro PHEV in EV mode as much as I can, so the engine is hardly used. My work commute is 23 miles round trip. I took one “big” trip to Winston-Salem in July and never tried to charge on that trip (the idea of paying 3x as much for a public charger is a big turn-off at the moment). Other than that, and a few times when the battery has run down low enough for the engine to come on, it’s all EV. It has around 3500 miles on it now, so I might do the equivalent of 1500 miles using the gas engine alone this year. Yeah, I’ll get the oil changed, but at that rate it’s not going to need expensive engine work anytime soon.
The counterpoint is, I’m only carrying around about 220 pounds in the 11.1 kWh traction battery, rather than an additional 1000+ pounds of batteries to get 300+ mile range that I’m not using every day. So, the tires should last longer. Overnight charging is painless for me, but would be an issue for someone without a driveway and an available outside outlet.
Everything about an automobile is a tradeoff, but PHEVs really do have lots of advantages.
Cheers,
Scott.
realbtl
Re gas small tools- It looks like the MAGATS are going to get smacked on the ass by the free market again.
Shantanu Saha
I’ve got a 2005 Prius and a 2011 hybrid Highlander, both still in good shape. I spent about $2k this summer replacing the hybrid battery on the Prius and fixing some chipmunk-chewed wiring on the Prius, so it should be good for another 4-5 years, or when #1 son is old enough to drive. Had an electrician doing some work a few weeks ago, asked him to give me an estimate on adding a 240v 50a circuit for ev chargers to the garage (one outlet for indoor charger and another for outdoor charger) and got a reasonable quote.
NotMax
@Ruckus
Mom’s large balcony is on third (top) floor of her building, with multiple pine trees on either side reaching up about another story and a half higher than that above the roof.
At least until the day before I left, when watched a guy in an impressively humongous cherry picker use a chain saw to lop maybe 10 or 15 feet off the tops, as well as thin the overhanging branches on each of the trees all the way down.
They’ll grow out and fill in again but for now it looked like they received the haircut from hell.
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
I remember when either the feds or CA or LA was having a crack down on safety of machine shops and the use of masks and eye and hearing protection. We were good prior but went all in and never saw one inspector. And I’d bet that there was one inspector and they just could not inspect even 20% of the businesses. Laws and decrees are fine but for the law to work it has to address a situation that might already have better than 90% compliance or hire a lot of inspectors and that takes MONEY. The law was good and likely necessary, but having a law is not the end all be all of humanity and enforcement often does not excite the participants.
trollhattan
@Another Scott:
I’m fixated on no more routine maintenance, no biennial smog check, no leaking fluids, no catalytic converter to steal.
But I want the designers to leave a few switches and dials so I don’t have to look at and finger-stab a center-mount tablet to make my car do every little thing. We’re not allowed to text and drive, how is that a good idea?
Kelly
@Ruckus:
IDK what the enforcement mechanism may be.
This is the way backyard burning regulations work in Oregon. One guy in Salem is responsible for answering the phone and recommending you contact local authorities. So out here in the hinterlands I only get a response when fire danger is high. Even the reactionary anti-environmentalist assholes will write tickets if it’s fire season.
Miss Bianca
@trollhattan: We are felling 30″ pines up here at the Mountain Hacienda. Between that and the lack of e-infrastructure up here, I doubt I will be converting to electric vehicles or equipment any time soon. (Although there is finally a charger downtown in one of my county’s tiny towns. Progress!)
Actually, I think I would go for an e-bike before an e-car or truck, personally, if I were looking for a local commuter conveyance.
trollhattan
@realbtl: They can store them next the incandescent lightbulb stash.
Another Scott
@trollhattan: My Niro has a big touch screen, but also has about 15 mechanical switches on the steering wheel. Plus, it, like just about everything else new, has voice activated stuff along with Android Auto and Apple’s equivalent. One doesn’t have to take one’s eyes off the road much at all if one doesn’t want to.
I’ve been surprised how good it is at reading texts aloud and converting verbal replies to pretty-correct typing.
The Niro came with about 1000 pages of printed manuals. (sigh)
Cheers,
Scott.
trollhattan
@Another Scott:
Good to hear. I think in designing EVs a lot of folks forgot a century of ergonomics lessons and instead chose to tear up the playbook and begin with a “clean slate.” As in really clean. VW already admits going too far that direction.
Sister Golden Bear
Tesla 3 owner — bought before Elon went completely Lex Luther — and got solar panels in part to power the car.
It’s got roughly 240-mile range, which is generally got for things within 2-hours of the SF Peninsula —- although recharging is required for the return trip. Longer trips are doable but far less convenient than an ICE car. The Sierras are tough enough—I got to less visited areas with few chargers—that for future trips I’ll get rentals.
if you’ve only got one car and do longer trips I’d recommend a plug-in hybrid instead. But EVs are great for around town and short trips.
Sister Golden Bear
@Sister Golden Bear: While there’s fit and finish issues with my Tesla 3, the only maintenance needed has been rotating and replacing tires. While the overall build quality may be crappy, it’s offset by EVs having far less things to wear out. We’ll see.
MomSense
My subie has 125k miles and I don’t have a car payment so I’m not in the market now. My next car will definitely be an EV. Maine has been installing a ton of charging stations so it should be an easy transition.
My parents have a Prius plug in hybrid and solar panels on the barn roof. They have barely used any gas all summer.
indycat32
@Another Scott: I do! My first car was a new 1969 Chevy Nova for $2000.
Mike in NC
Got into the car this morning and the battery was dead, so I’m hanging out at home waiting for AAA to arrive with a new one. My brother and his girlfriend just departed the Outer Banks and will arrive tonight for a week. We don’t get visitors very often so my wife is very excited to show them around. My next car will probably be a hybrid Honda.
Ruckus
@MomSense:
Yesterday I put $20 in the tank, that’s 4 gal at the cheapest place around me here in SoCal. That will likely last me for 2-3 months. The last time did. And not my car does not get 200mpg. I just only drive to the grocery store. And I walk there some of the time. Like when it isn’t 90+ degrees outside.
The Golux
@TaMara: Regarding new battery technology, I’ve been following news about this company for several years and I’m surprised it hasn’t received more attention.
Full charge in three minutes. Triple the energy density. No fire hazard. Operates between -30 and 100 degrees Celsius. Simple water-based manufacturing process at room temperature.
Imagine only needing to charge your phone twice a week.
Jeff Del Papa
In my case, it’s up to VW. If they actually bring in their re-imagined EV microbus, I will be trading in my existing 2015 VW golf EV, and the stinkpot (a Mazda minivan) the day they are real.
Back in 2015, the normally priced EV’s had about a 25 kWh battery, and a 100 mile range on a good day. So, in addition to the limited cargo capacity, it wasn’t suitable as a primary vehicle. (And in 2015 when we got it, the nearest compatible high speed charger was about double its range away)
It will be great to be down to a single vehicle. And as a teen in the 70’s, I basically learned to drive in a microbus.
The big thing to solve is overnight charging for those limited to on street parking. If you have a charging spot available, as far as you are concerned, charging takes 30 seconds, 10 to plug in when you are done for the day, and 20 seconds in the morning to unplug and hang up the cord
No, this doesn’t have to be fancy fast charging, you only need to charge you used that day An ordinary wall outlet will have no trouble adding 40 miles of range (average daily mileage in the us is 35/day) in the 8 hours you are asleep
wjca
It is, of course, a terrible idea. And one that has been around for some years, even on non-EVs. I got a 10 year old used Toyota this spring. (Waiting for the next generation of batteries to get the bugs out before going EV.) What I would like, more than anything else, is a switch to turn the damn tablet OFF.
eversor
On the batteries they aren’t remotely safe. Working in IT the practice is to have a bucket of sand at hand to hurl things into if they start going because it’s very bad. It’s rare, but I’m not sure how safe you can make them. Not a knock on EVs at all though as you know gasoline also will go up in a fireball give the chance. But when I see swollen phones or laptops and people pretending it’s all fine it grinds my gears as I’ve had shit go up in giant balls of flame at work before and it’s not fun.
For us a pure EV is not in the game really. Hybrid works best. The reason is that we live in an apartment complex and there are no charging stations. Charging stations are a pain in the ass to find as well and many of them are Tesla stations. So it’s futile. While some apartment buildings do have charging stations those are the ones that would raise our rent from over 2k to over 5k.
I’m sure the charging station stuff will get worked out but for a lot of people an EV just doesn’t work. Hybrid is great though! The SO keeps eyeballing the RAV4 Hybrid and ultimately that is going to be the second vehicle or give the current one to the niece and then just have one.
Matt McIrvin
@Another Scott: I think PHEVs and non-PHEV hybrids need to be seen as substantially different types of vehicle. I have a recent Hyundai Sonata hybrid and while I love the car, it is functionally an extremely efficient gasoline-powered car, not an EV.
Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937
I bought a used 2017 Bolt a couple of years ago. I love it for 99% of driving. The range drops in the winter, I live near Buffalo ny, but that’s due to road conditions and friction. Climate control draws maybe 10% and that’s the same summer or winter. Best car I’ve owned.
realbtl
Living up here in the far NW I’m leery of all electric in -20º with heater/defrosters blasting. But I’m seriously considering an electric SXS off roader with canvas cab- street legal here in MT- for my 4 mile trip to town for groceries, PO etc. For most of the year at least.
Fair Economist
I’ve found an ebike is a great first step. The price is minuscule compared to an EV – mine was $2,500, literally 1/20th the cost of a new EV. I got a MIK system removable attachment and panniers from Basil https://www.basil.com/en/ so I can use it for grocery trips or other short errands, or pop them off if I didn’t want the extra volume and drag for transporting just me. I could actually get to my physical therapy appointment *faster* on my bike because I could take a more direct route (gotta love gated communities).
We have a Tesla and a 10yo Equinox; IMO it’s a low priority to replace the Equinox because I don’t commute; at present I drive it about once per week. I figure at present the EVs being made should go to people who will use it to displace a lot more driving than I do.
Miss Bianca
@realbtl: there are electric side by sides? I figured there had to be, although all the ones around here are gas-powered. ATVs are considered street-worthy vehicles in my county – you’re just not supposed to take them on the highway. But for running into town and back they would be fine.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: I did the opposite. Got an induction cooktop range about 3 years ago and this year got a hybrid electric heat pump water heater. Next year will probably be the HVAC year, hopefully replacing my gas boiler and our on it’s last legs high velocity AC system with something heat pump based.
Mo MacArbie
Hmm, voice-activated stuff gives me pause. I don’t want my car to think my “Move your fucking ass, moron!” was directed at it.
NotMax
Happy with the non-plug-in hybrid Maverick. Easy to get in and out of (a definite consideration for us olds), physical buttons and knobs for most any function I make use of (on the center dash, not the steering wheel). Pretty much the only thing I use the screen for is when switching between the radio and music on an inserted USB drive.
Would there were more places to enjoy driving it, 19 months after the dealer handed over the keys have a paltry 750 miles on the odometer. Only filled the gas tank once since bringing it home, and that second tankful is still more than 3/4 full.
realbtl
@Miss Bianca:
Yup CanAm I seem to recall.
Geminid
One important area of vehicle electrification is small delivery trucks. Among other companies, UPS and Amazon are beginning to purchase battery-powered vans and plan to make them a major part of their fleets, although UPS plans for a hybrid powered component for longer routes. I think businesses with smaller fleets- electrical and plumbing contractors and the like- will be electrifying their fleets. Advantages are lower maintenance costs and insulation from potential price hikes for fossil fuels.
One important provision in the Infrastructure bill will help fund electrification of school bus fleets. The goal is to electrify 20% of the nation’s school buses by 2030. I think this goal will be exceeded as people come to appreciate the cleaner kids breath on their way to and from school. The electric buses cost more than diesel buses but are cheaper over the lifetime. This makes adoption a question of financing, which the federal government is well-placed to provide.
Buses in mass transit systems are well-suited to electrification as well, and riders are seeing more and more electric buses.
Battery power may not be as suitable for heavier trucks, but some battery-powered Class 8 tractors are already on the highways. The big problem here is range. They are certainly good for short hauls; I think the Port of Los Angeles has used them for at least 15 years.
Dan B
@rekoob: We’ve leased Leafs for eight years. First one was 85 mile range. Now we’re on a 220+ mile range. The benefit of leasing is that the charging for Leafs is disappearing. We drove the 180 miles to the ocean Labor Day and the one charger we stopped at had 5 chargers and the one that worked for our car had another Leaf that was going to be there for 45 minutes. We got to the resort with miles to spare and there was a level two charger there that had just been installed. It cost $1.50 to add 75 miles.
cain
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
We got a model 3 which are everywhere here in Portland. Especially white model 3. It’s only a 2 year lease before looking at that Toyota. But my wife needed a good EV to go to work.
She tells me the computer interface makes sense to her brain. We picked it as a lot of EV cars are software driven and I wanted one that’s been tested for many years. As the first real EV the software probably went through its paces vs the build quality. This does not include the autonomous function which nobody should trust on any make or model.
BigJimSlade
@Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937: Lol – nice name (nym, or whatever you want to call it)!
cain
@Kent: I had an eye on the ioniq 6 myself ! But I still have my Subaru.
Raoul Paste
i’ve seen an announcement that Toyota has made a significant advance in solid-state batteries. From the capacity and power metrics that I saw , it is a big deal.. They did not disclose the chemistry details
They are going to try to commercialise by 2027, but the engineering problems are significant. I am hopeful, and look forward to a product. I currently have a Camry hybrid and am very happy with it.
cain
@Geminid:
We need to start doing electrification of long haul goods trains and Amtrak as well.
cain
@Raoul Paste: looks like it will be awhile. That’s ok .. plenty of EV choices till then
Bupalos
@Nukular Biskits: Do it, they are great. They are fun. If you’re not high income I’d recommend snatching a 2019-20 with the $4000 used credit. They all had a battery recall, and most of them sat. You can get an out-the-door sub 20K nearly undriven EV with an essentially unused, upgraded battery.
You’ll be surprised how nice this car is and how fun it is. Push the race flag button. The whole thing feels like cheating.
Dan B
@Jeff Del Papa: There is hope that electric utilities will use t light pole chargers but so far policy makers and utility execs have not gotten the message. And it wouldn’t work on our street because parking and light poles are on opposite sides.
cain
@Sister Golden Bear:
Let’s be honest.. we are insulting lex Luther by comparing a man who has no impulse control.
Bupalos
@Fair Economist:mine was $2,500, literally 1/20th the cost of a new EV.
That’s more like 1/10th my out-the-door on a Bolt. But add in the lifetime energy cost and yeah.
NotMax
@cain – @Sister Golden Bear
Luthor.
/pedant
Mike in Pasadena
Excellent post and i enjoyed the embedded video. I am hopeful about a technology that avoids cobalt but still avoids other drawbacks. Cobalt mining is horrible environmentally and damages the health of poor collectors (miners) scraping it out of the ground. In 1990 I was working for a company developing and promoting electric cars. A colleague working in research told me, “EV development is really battery research. Making a lightweight car will help, but it is really all about the battery.”
Bupalos
@Kelly: Define “large.”
My 18″ ego handles just about everything I need to do with firewood and completely replaced my old Husqvarna 20 rancher while making me more efficient and I feel safer. (No need for hearing protection is a safety bonus to me because I can hear what is happening in the tree.) Dropping “real” timber we still use the neighbor’s 24″ gas stihl, but that’s like once every year max.
Bupalos
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: build quality of an EV is probably not as critical as build quality of a planet destroyer. There’s just a lot less to f up.
Bupalos
@HumboldtBlue: The bolt gets a real-world 260+ in a mild climate. If you really hate cars (I kinda do) and want to do it as cheaply as possible, I could see $13,000 getting you in one in Cali. How far do you need to go?
Bupalos
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Buy used (4,000 fed credit) or wait until late 2024. There will be ultium Bolts in pretty short order, the retirement was based on ending that battery line and expecting to exceed battery manufacturing capacity on their other ultium models. But they both expanded ultium manufacturing and competition in heavier segments is going to mean Bolt gets its share in short order I think
I agree it was insane to even think about ending the Bolt. It’s too bad they didn’t give it more external personality because I could see it achieving a kind of Beetle status if it was more recognizable, owners I know are total honks. As am I.
lowtechcyclist
@nickdag:
That’s David Roberts, and I’ve been reading his stuff for quite some time. He’s trustworthy, and knows his stuff. I don’t listen to podcasts, period, but if I did, I’d listen to his.
Geminid
@cain: Heavy transport is a big source of carbon emissions but will be the heaviest lift. The factors of battery range, weight and recharging time may limit battery powered trains and Class 8 highway trucks. Technology improvements could change this.
Locomotives can be powered by overhead electrical lines. Another low emission solution could be hydrogen fuel cell power. Hyundai and other companies produce hydrogen powered heavy trucks and they are beginning to be adopted in Europe, which is a few years ahead of us in this field.
Cummins Engines has developed fuel cell power packages for heavy trucks, as has Bosch, which has partnered with Nikola Trucks on Class 8 tractors.
Availability of hydrogen fuel could be a limiting factor in adoption, and Cummins is working on that problem by building electrolysers at a plant in Fridley, Minnesota. It commenced operation in June, with the Secretary Granholm, the state’s Governor, Senator Smith and two local Representatives attending an event at the factory. Rep. Omar’s remarks emhasized the value of the good paying jobs the factory brought to the community.
Kayla Rudbek
It looks like the Bolt will get from DC suburbs to the Eastern Shore on one charge. I remember seeing one in Acadia where it had been driven from DC so I think that would take a couple of charges.
I would love to have an e-bike but since I rarely ride my single bike, a tandem e-bike would probably be better as it would get more use.
lowtechcyclist
@trollhattan:
And they’re so very LOUD!!
With my wet-dry vac, I can attach a blower nozzle to the vac motor’s exhaust, and I’ve been using that as a blower for decades now. It means I need an extension cord to blow the leaves off the driveway, but big freakin’ deal.
The mower excepted (battery-powered is the way to go there), there’s nothing wrong with electric yard tools that need to be plugged into an outlet. I’ve even got an electric chain saw, because why not? Most of us rarely need to use one, and when you do, you just run an extension cord to that one place, and you’re good. And I use hedge trimmers, edgers, and stuff like that that run off an extension cord.
If I was buying stuff like that for the first time, I’d probably buy ones that used the same batteries as my lawn mower, but I bought this stuff already 15-25 years ago, and it’s all still working fine.
Chris T.
LFP (or more formally LiFePO4, lithium phosphate) batteries have one relatively big disadvantage: they take more space-and-volume to hold their energy than do other lithium battery technologies. So laptops and phones don’t use LFP.
The phosphate part of the chemistry is nontoxic (along with the lithium and iron parts, which all adds up to be nice) but the other drawback here is that PO4 groups are necessary for life and building “too many” LiFePO4 batteries will lock up more of the PO4—well, specifically, the P—than we’d like. How many is “too many”? Well, if we somehow replaced all petrol-fueled vehicle tanks with LFP batteries overnight, with enough battery for enough range for most people’s uses, that would probably be too many. Plant-growers may be familiar with guano fertilizer, which contains both nitrogen and phosphate (as P2O5 rather than PO4, but that’s not really important). Guano used to be super cheap, but isn’t any more due to high demand.
Ruckus
@JoyceH:
I am the last of 5 in my family, as of the late May. I’m in my mid 70s and really my driving is going to the store or the train station. I live in the San Gabriel Valley area of LA County. My only nephew lives in Boston, my closest cousin lives in San Diego, next closest is northern WA or TX. My longest, best friend lives 50 miles from me. We talk on the phone semi regular, but neither of us drive all that much any more as he’s 3 yrs older than I am.
So many Americans think you HAVE to have a car and drive everywhere, but there are many places that isn’t true. For me now, in SoCal I drive short distances to stores or the train station and have a grocery store within walking distance. I still feel comfortable driving but I can see that changing right in front of my eyes.
Righteous Hazard
@Kent: I am a rural/suburban type resident that is a little more rural location than is good for him, and a little more suburban than he likes.
But I agree with you on the belt/suspenders thing. If my only car had to be a commuter, I would go for a plugin hybrid, because I need the belt and suspenders. But in a few years, I know I am going to be in the market for truck or utility van, and depending on what is available at that time in electrics or hybrids in that category, my commuter car might only need the electric suspenders.
Yutsano
@Kent:
WOOT! Oh, ahem, sorry.
It’s actually not a terrible drive if you go down 18 to I-82 to 395 to 260. It does take you through the meatier part of Kennewick but that’s also a good place to stop for lunch. There’s a poutine shop not far off the highway y’all can sample. (Note: as of today haven’t tried it yet but there will be a review if/when I do.) Or a couple really good Chinese restaurants too.
If she likes Pullman she’ll do just fine. But if she can survive that first year of really being in the middle of nowhere she’ll be good. And depending on her major she’ll get a great education to boot. My big recommendation is for her to get out and do stuff. There’s tons of activities for her to get involved with. Oh and again: if she can get into the Smith Hall dorm she’ll love it!
Chief Oshkosh
Here’s a fun YTer who is using an electric excavator to do actual work:
https://youtu.be/cumZxYjzx6M?si=TSZ6ScIxF3XqPidN
Robert Llewellyn from Scrapheap Challenge and Red Dwarf
Matt McIrvin
@NotMax: We just took my hybrid Sonata on its first fairly long road trip to visit family, and I think I could have driven it all the way from Massachusetts to Colonial Beach, Virginia on one tank, though we actually did fill it up shortly before getting there. We went on to Richmond at one point before returning, but the only other fill-up was on the New Jersey Turnpike on the way home, and I had a half tank left after getting home.
Another Scott
@Matt McIrvin: They’re similar in that there’s some duplication in driving the wheels (gas + electric), but I get your point.
The Niro and the most recent Prius PHEVs have pretty substantial all-electric range and top speed – mine supposedly can do 82 MPH with just the electric motor. Lots of the previous hybrids could only go about 20 mph and maybe 5 miles all-electric before the gas would kick in. J’s 2015 Prius C runs the engine just backing out of the driveway…
Someone above mentioned buying a 1969 Nova new. Lots of changes since then! There will no doubt be a lot more changes in the next 50 years. Given progress in wireless charging and even microwave power beaming, I wouldn’t be totally shocked if there will come a time when EVs have tiny batteries and get most of their operating power from a wireless charging grid. There’s a LONG way to go before we get there (cars and bikes and trucks need a LOT more power than a cell phone), but …
Exciting times.
Cheers,
Scott.
Chief Oshkosh
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Yep. I don’t know if it’s a mindset or somehow part of an 11-dimensional business plan, but GM has being doing this really, really stupid shit since at least the 60s. It’s one of many reasons that I just cannot bring myself to buy from them. OTOH, EVERY carmaker does stupid and/or shitty things, so…
Another Scott
@Chief Oshkosh:
Toyota says filled disk storage halted Japan-based factories…
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Bill Arnold
@trollhattan:
My base level of hearing protection is cheap corded silicone earplugs, maybe at best 25DB reduction, that I keep around my neck all day. Because they are always around the neck, they are very easily inserted and removed into/from the ears.. (Not foam plugs on a string, also available, which provide more hearing protection.)
Then shooters muffs (David Clark) for seriously loud noise.
Anyone using small gasoline engines near themselves should be using at least some hearing protection. It is super easy, and they will thank themselves 10-20 years from now.
Better will be to stop using such engines, though.
Chief Oshkosh
@Another Scott: Had to check the date. That is so stupid I thought it must be an April Fool’s joke.
Ruckus
@Another Scott:
A lot of the changes came from better machine tools to make the parts of cars, better tolerances became possible, better motor oils and lead free gas made them run better and last longer. We bought our first numerical control machine in 1973. I had to program it because my dad didn’t quite get the concept – a buddy of his told him to buy the machine. Prior to that every thing was done by the operator manually by hand. When I closed the shop in 1994 I had 4 numerical control machines and 3 manual machines. Two of my NC machines cost over $400,000. but would run 24 hrs a day without an operator and their accuracy was by far better than I could measure.
All car manufacturers had to assemble engines by measuring every mating part to put together an engine that would even work. Today those parts can be machined to dramatically better tolerances and so the engine lasts longer and works better and the body/frame can be build far better and we have safety rules that means while some parts will need replacing from an accident the vehicle is less likely to need to be replaced. Unless one does something really, really stupid. And of course there are always the stories of old cars that went for years with nothing more than normal maintenance. I’ve also watched my father rebuild engines in the garage because the quality was – whats the word – oh yes – crap. Today that’s rare. And I’m looking at a picture of my grand father’s graduation from Packard mechanics school when the cars looked like – do a search for 1925 Packard.
Chief Oshkosh
@Ruckus: Yep, and they can be powerful. I bought about the most powerful electric leaf blower available on Amazon last year. Had to send it back. Just about snapped my wrists every time I used it. Powerful and fun, but just more than I needed. Got a more suitable replacement. And I love not dealing with the gas/oil mixing.
Another Scott
@Ruckus: My dad had a green 1955 Chevy Bel Air through my childhood. Man was it hot in the back seat of that thing in Georgia summers (no AC of course)!
Lots of changes over the years!
You’re absolutely right that lots of great things are possible with tighter tolerances. The Bel Air had a “draft tube” to keep pressure from building up in the crankcase (from blow-by past the piston rings). It just dumped vapors below the engine. Draft tubes, and similar oil leakage, were the cause of the ubiquitous black stripes down the center of roadway lanes back in the olden days. Of course, the stuff ended up in the air and the water and people’s lungs and …
If only there was as much attention to improving the quality and durability of electronics (and plumbing!) as there is to mechanical things (most of the failures I deal with at work are caused by blown up capacitors, or cheap power supplies failing, or…).
Cheers,
Scott.
Ruckus
@Chief Oshkosh:
There are a bunch of good reasons that electricity replaced steam and there was a good reason why electric cars didn’t catch on in the way back and gasoline did. Lead. Batteries over 100 yrs ago were lead acid. The lead was a tad heavy. The tires didn’t do to well under all that weight. And battery technology didn’t really change till when? Your gas powered car still has a lead acid 12 volt battery in it. Even if you drove it home for the first time yesterday. Sealed so you don’t have to add water regularly. Which isn’t water anyway, it’s filled with a gel. They last longer because the gel doesn’t evaporate, so the battery lasts longer and works better. And I’d bet your electric car has a 12 battery that runs the lights and the gauges/computer screen, door locks.
Subsole
@Righteous Hazard: Same. I used to obsessively scroll Twitter. It was doing bad things for my blood pressure, and that’s before Rocket Boy turned it into BirdChan.
I have not looked at it in months. It feels like quitting cigarettes cold turkey. Miserable for a bit, then you feel free.
Subsole
@trollhattan: Truly, is there anything more futile than a leaf-blower?
Ruckus
@Another Scott:
Look what we are doing right now. Communicating with electronic devices that not all that long ago you would say what we had then were crap, except you likely didn’t have anything to really to compare them to. The computer I communicating with you on is a 2023 model and it is far better than the 2019 model I sold to a neighbor, which was a big improvement over the 15 yr old computer he had. I’m on my 5th cell phone and this one is so far better than the last one (same brand, involves fruit) and so massively better than my first flip phone from the mid 90s that there is no actual comparison. I have zero idea what technology will look like in 10-20 yrs but I’ve seen what it looked like 50-60 yrs ago and the improvement is almost immeasurable. I went to electronic and gyrocompass schools in the Navy, over 50 yrs ago and they told us that we might, as in very slim chance, see a ship with transistorized amplifiers for the gyrocompass. The school didn’t have them. The ship I was assigned to did. No vacuum tube equipment. None. As someone who built a 5 tube vacuum tube radio from a kit at 12 – AM only of course, the change in electronics is still rather amazing. And I’ve been seeing it first hand for over 50 yrs. To me the difference of what things do and how much better they are today is still amazing. I remember going to the grocery store to check vacuum tubes on the checking machine that every grocery store had and purchase vacuum tubes there. Now many of the people on this here blog have likely never even seen a vacuum tube. Other old farts may have but anyone under 50? likely not.
Burrowing Owl
Question for those of you who have electric bikes: are they easily secured against theft?
Also, are there tandem electrics that work for school pickup?
Brachiator
@trollhattan:
The IRS web site summarizes EV information here:
Credits for New Clean Vehicles Purchased in 2023 or After
There is also a link to a Department of Energy site that provides tons of information and lets you search for qualifying vehicles.
kindness
Last month I heard that Toyota had developed a solid state battery (not lithium ion), that had a 750 mile range and it took 10 minutes to recharge. I wonder how long that will take to come to market?
Brachiator
@kindness:
Apparently, we’re talking promise, not reality.
Also, no discussion of possible costs, and recycling is problematic.
Kent
No, not any easier than any other bike. Although my Specialized has a phone app that lets me lock the bike electronically which basically bricks it so someone else can’t ride it under power. But they can still ride it like a normal bike. Specialized says the bike is completely bricked without re-entering the PIN code. Can a mechanic bypass that and make it rideable? I don’t know. They can certainly part it out and the batteries alone are worth $$$ as are all the components.
I’m a teacher and mine sits in my classroom behind my desk when I’m at work and in my garage at home. If I ever stop anyplace else it is at the suburban grocery on the way home where I lock it in front of the store to a rack with a heavy duty u-lock where I can see it through the window and then I’m just in and out in a flash. It is also the suburbs so not serious bike theft territory since there are few bikes ever locked up there.
And yes, there are a wide variety of cargo style e-bikes designed for passengers. I haven’t actually seen a true tandem version for two pedalers but there are certainly lots that have rear seats for passengers. A tandem doesn’t really make sense for recreational riding, just get two e-bikes. Since if you have a weaker rider the e-bike will equalize that anyway
9 cargo e-bikes for carrying your kids: https://rascalrides.com/cargo-bikes-kids/
Another Scott
@kindness: @Brachiator:
In addition to what Brachiator says, it’s good to remember that cars have huge lead-times. Like 10 years being typical. If Toyota had the batteries perfected today, it would still probably take about 10 years for them to be common in cars.
Catalytic converters were patented in the 1950s but weren’t in production until 1973.
Lots of companies (VW, MB, etc., etc.) are working on snazzy new batteries. There’s a long way to go to make them production worthy for cars, and the first to market may not be the winner (fast followers often do better).
Cheers,
Scott.
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@cain: You mean, beyond the diesel-electric systems they currently use in locomotives?
(For non-train people, here’s an example of the type, completes with the updates added—basically, they use a diesel-powered electric generator.)
Matt McIrvin
@Another Scott: Yeah, my non-PHEV isn’t really designed to run electric as its primary mode. The electric motor is only about 50 HP and the battery isn’t huge.
The ideal for efficiency with the Hyundai system is a little different from what I expected: it seems to be that it uses the electric motor when creeping around at low speed and switches mostly to the ICE when it needs more power to accelerate, but then when it’s at speed on the highway, it actually uses the electric drive surprisingly often to manage changes in speed and hills and valleys. It spends some charge to accelerate a bit, then gets most of that back with regenerative braking when it can. The car doesn’t need a lot of power to do this. And then it gets a big charge from regen when you decelerate onto an exit, which it can use puttering around locally.
If I get stuck in a low-speed traffic jam for a long time so that it’s using the electric system almost exclusively, it starts having to run the ICE just to charge the battery, and it’s reluctant to do that because it’s less efficient. Better to accelerate the car directly with the regular transmission, then get some of that energy back with regen braking and be able to use it a second time. But what it’s doing in this situation of course still beats a conventional car that is going to waste a lot of fuel just idling.
Because it doesn’t have the Toyota planetary gear system–the internal combustion engine works through a conventional six-speed automatic transmission–it’s more likely to run all-electric or all-ICE at any given time, but it seems to manage about the same overall efficiency.
Matt McIrvin
@a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio): The Northeast Corridor is actually all electrified, with overhead catenaries for purely electric locomotives, but not much of the rest of the US is. I remember when it was only electric up to New Haven and they had to change locomotives there.
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@Matt McIrvin: I thought that was the case in the Northeast, but it’s been harder to manage that elsewhere because of distance factors, as I understand if.
Matt McIrvin
@a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio): And even in the Northeast it’s only the main Amtrak corridor from DC to Boston. Most of the other rail lines aren’t electrified (apart from city metro systems). The MBTA commuter rail is all diesel-electric trains.
xjmuellerlurks
If you like Gav (ecotricity nz) and Matt Ferrell, you might like the Just Have A Think channel on YouTube. Weekly vids about renewables. He covers a variety of technologies. Vids come out on Sundays.
Another Scott
@Matt McIrvin: I did some figuring with my 2004 VW Jetta TDI wagon once, looking at the power vs rpm curve – it only takes about 20 HP to stay at a constant 55 MPH (around 1900 rpm). (The 1.9 liter engine has a maximum power rating of 100 HP, but a boatload of torque that peaks at 1900 rpm.) It’s the acceleration from a stop – quickly – that takes so much power. Newton was right!
It makes me laugh and laugh at the guys with the 700+ HP Hemis these days. ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Burrowing Owl
@Kent: Thanks for sharing your experience, that helps. My kids aren’t tiny or even small so I’m not sure I could replace the school pickups and drop offs with an electric bike just now. Will carry on with the Prius.
I’m glad your bike works so well for you!
Victor Matheson
I love my Kona EV. Here’s my opinion on this… if you
1. have a garage where you can easily charge and/or install a lvl2 charger.
2. are a 2-car family where the other car is an ICE that is good for occasional long-distance trips.
3. Have a reasonable commute under 50 miles one way.
You would be insane to buy anything but an EV.
I am currently writing this post from a bar because I forgot to plug in my EV last night and was going to end up cutting it close getting home. If you think spending 30 minutes drinking a microbrew in a local bar is a disadvantage of owning an EV, I don’t know what to tell you…
JBWoodford
I just got a 2023 Ioniq 5, and I’m really liking it for in-city driving. Haven’t tried to go long distances, but I met a couple with one at a charging station in Joliet IL–they were on their way back from NY to CO, and they’d been able to manage with a lot of stops. The Electrify America Level 3 chargers are apparently common enough on the route that they could reasonably charge every 150-200 miles.
My workplace also provides unlimited charging for a nominal monthly fee, which definitely helps with the range anxiety.