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My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

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You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Monday Morning Open Thread: Another Weekday, Another Show

Monday Morning Open Thread: Another Weekday, Another Show

by Anne Laurie|  September 11, 20237:49 am| 262 Comments

This post is in: Biden Administration in Action, Proud to Be A Democrat, Republicans in Disarray!, Vice-President Harris

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Welp–this on-the-ground reporting really screws with the GOP narrative of Biden having dementia and the Dems’ narrative that he’s past it. Looks like Biden’s savvy af.

With Xi and Putin absent, Biden steps into the power void to woo allies at G20 https://t.co/RlOYJzzNYx

— Victoria Brownworth (@VABVOX) September 10, 2023

You can see the exact moment when Peter Doocy realizes he just demolished one of his own network’s talking points pic.twitter.com/57O4EAlUIe

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) September 10, 2023

“President Biden spoke by telephone with Gauff and her parents to congratulate her on winning the U.S. Open, the White House said. Biden called from New Delhi, where he was attending a global summit.”https://t.co/0wET7Ykv5j

— darlene superville (@dsupervilleap) September 10, 2023

Making all of us in Georgia proud. Congrats @CocoGauff! https://t.co/ru1DV0jlON

— Reverend Raphael Warnock (@ReverendWarnock) September 10, 2023


The best thing I did to be effective as WHCOS was stop reading Playbook. https://t.co/zyD9QjtHTZ

— Ronald Klain (@RonaldKlain) September 9, 2023

The chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee is slamming a fellow Republican in the Senate for waging an unprecedented attempt to change Pentagon abortion policy by holding up hundreds of military nominations and promotions.https://t.co/FjTvdKBFa8

— Stars and Stripes (@starsandstripes) September 11, 2023

The Washington Post, company paper for the town whose monopoly industry is national politics, adds another vertical:

First edition of our weekly Trump Trials popup newsletter, via @PerryStein and @DevlinBarrett. Click to read and to subscribe via the signup link. https://t.co/qgnq6nr8Cm

— Debbi Wilgoren (@DebbiWilgoren) September 10, 2023

… The goal is a weekly, one-stop shop to better understand what is happening in each of the four criminal cases — putting developments in perspective so you can see what are mountains and what are molehills in the legal landscape…

Lots of detail, for those with obsessive sufficient interest in the topic. Readers: Should I be using one of my precious ‘gift links’ to share this with those of you who aren’t WaPo subscribers? Or can you find what you need elsewhere?

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Previous Post: « Dank Grey Dawn Open Thread: A Shift in the Political ‘Vibes’?
Next Post: Risk bearing and commercial prices in health insurance »

Reader Interactions

262Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    September 11, 2023 at 7:54 am

    POLITICO Playbook

    @playbookdc

    Democrats worry that Biden’s vulnerabilities risk being blown up as equivalent to Trump’s.

    Risk being blown up by whom, Politico?

    Hint: Look in the mirror.

  2. 2.

    AxelFoley

    September 11, 2023 at 7:54 am

    Ok, I’ma say it–First Second!

     

    edit: Ninja’d

  3. 3.

    Manyakitty

    September 11, 2023 at 7:57 am

    I can volunteer some of my gift links if you run out. (Still early in the month!)

  4. 4.

    Kristine

    September 11, 2023 at 7:58 am

    I have a gift link to share. (See AL’s note above)

  5. 5.

    Betty

    September 11, 2023 at 8:02 am

    Post headlines continue to be awful. Max Boot and Catherine Rampell: why can’t Biden do anything right? And the CNN headline on the McCaul interview is a criticism of Biden, not Tuberville.  Why are they so desperate to take down the guy who is doing so much so well?

  6. 6.

    p.a.

    September 11, 2023 at 8:09 am

    “If a man’s livelihood depends on his not understanding something, he won’t.”

    It’s a paraphrase, too lazy to look up at the moment, but so true.  It’s a tremendous character test.

  7. 7.

    schrodingers_cat

    September 11, 2023 at 8:09 am

    G20 meeting in India was the launch of Modi’s (and BJP’s) reelection campaign.

  8. 8.

    rikyrah

    September 11, 2023 at 8:10 am

    Good Morning Everyone 😊😊😊

  9. 9.

    rikyrah

    September 11, 2023 at 8:11 am

    @Betty:

    They miss being stenographers.

    Biden is competent and boring.

    He gives nothing for their FUTURE BOOKS 😡

  10. 10.

    rikyrah

    September 11, 2023 at 8:11 am

    @AxelFoley:

    Hey Axel 👋🏾

  11. 11.

    rikyrah

    September 11, 2023 at 8:13 am

    @Baud:

     

    Morning Baud 👋🏾

    What exactly are Biden ‘s vulnerabilities.

    Last time I looked, Biden wasn’t indicted four times with 91 felony charges 😒

  12. 12.

    TS

    September 11, 2023 at 8:13 am

    @Betty:

    Why are they so desperate to take down the guy who is doing so much so well?

    Just so boring – no eye opening disasters, no foot in mouth comments, just honest, effective government.

    TIFG generated so much for the media to talk about.

  13. 13.

    Steeplejack

    September 11, 2023 at 8:17 am

    @Anne Laurie:

    I’ll volunteer to donate a gift link 🎁 occasionally (Times or Post), since I rarely use all of mine in a month. Just let me know when you need one.

  14. 14.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    September 11, 2023 at 8:18 am

    I think good political reporting is a lot of work. To talk about something other than the horse race, you have to know about policy, its effects, how it gets made and carried out, etc. And none of that thrills readers.

  15. 15.

    Steeplejack

    September 11, 2023 at 8:19 am

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning! 🙏

  16. 16.

    Steeplejack

    September 11, 2023 at 8:20 am

    @TS:

    At least Biden could offer to buy Greenland or something. Make an effort.

  17. 17.

    lowtechcyclist

    September 11, 2023 at 8:21 am

    @Betty:

    Why are they so desperate to take down the guy who is doing so much so well?

    I know other people will say the owners are pulling their reporters’ strings, but I think it’s simpler than that.

    The reporters don’t know shit about actual policy, and they don’t want to have to know shit about policy; that’s too much boring work, from their POV.

    Reporting on who’s up and who’s down is easy and fun, from their perspective.  But that requires a certain level of turmoil.  And Biden’s not giving them any of that – I really loved Ron Klain saying his secret sauce was not reading Playbook.  Biden and his team are trying to get shit done – they passed major legislation last year, and now they’re implementing it.

    And you can hear the press say: Booo-riiiiiiing!

    If the national press were making middle-class salaries – not even upper middle class, just right in the middle – then just from their friends and neighbors, they’d have a sense of the difference Biden is making in people’s lives, and why this stuff matters.  But they’re all making well into six figures, and they’ll do fine no matter who’s in charge.  (Until the day the leopard eats their faces, of course.)  But a Trump gives them a lot more easy and fun reporting to do, not to mention the book contracts.  Biden isn’t giving them any of that, so of course they don’t like him.

    ETA: Beaten to the punch by rikyrah, who said it much more concisely. :-

    ETA2: And TS, and Dorothy Winsor. Did I miss anyone? ;-)

  18. 18.

    Spanky

    September 11, 2023 at 8:21 am

    @TS:

    Just so boring – no eye opening disasters, no foot in mouth comments, just honest, effective government.

    Once upon a time I was informed that Joe Biden was a “gaff machine”

    ETA and what about the touchy feely shoulder-rubby Joe Biden?

  19. 19.

    gene108

    September 11, 2023 at 8:22 am

    @rikyrah:

    He gives nothing for their FUTURE BOOKS 😡

    A major error by the Biden administration.

    There’s no way for the mainstream press to cash in on Biden’s presidency.

  20. 20.

    Another Scott

    September 11, 2023 at 8:23 am

    @schrodingers_cat: I ass-u-me that most voters in India won’t care one way or the other about the G20 meeting, other than those who didn’t like it because it messed up the traffic in New Delhi more than usual.

    Fingers crossed for a good election result for the good people of India.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  21. 21.

    Jeffro

    September 11, 2023 at 8:25 am

    A reminder to the GOP and the American public at large: we’ve never had a “________ Trials” reporting section in the paper to keep track of an ex-president’s multiple felony trials, because we never had to.  Not until Mr. Innocent came along.

    “Let’s see: national news, sports, style, food, horoscope…and oh yeah, trump trials.  That’s all of it!  Roll the presses, Scoop!”

    Just sayin’!

  22. 22.

    gene108

    September 11, 2023 at 8:28 am

    @Another Scott:

    most voters in India won’t care one way or the other about the G20 meeting

    India being seen as an important country is a big deal to most Indians. Hosting the G20 summit, having Indian leaders at the same table as the U.S. president, British PM, etc., matters considering how impoverished India was not too long ago.

  23. 23.

    Cacti

    September 11, 2023 at 8:29 am

    Just wanted to add that for anyone who celebrated Lula’s victory in Brazil as a victory for progressive values…

    As seen at the G20 and during the past year, he’s a total sycophant for Putin, Xi, and Modi, pretending to hold himself out as a broker for peace (on terms dictated by Moscow).

  24. 24.

    Tony Jay

    September 11, 2023 at 8:29 am

    Coco Gauff took Sabalenka apart in those last two sets. Absolutely great tennis and it’s fantastic to see another young player picking up a Grand Slam and using it to smack all the haters upside their peanut-sized heads. Fingers crossed Raducanu comes back from her (much needed, foolishly put off) operations and returns to the kind of form she was showing when she took the US Open title a couple of years ago, because that’s a rivalry I’d happily spend a decade watching.

  25. 25.

    Baud

    September 11, 2023 at 8:31 am

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning.

  26. 26.

    Tony Jay

    September 11, 2023 at 8:31 am

    @gene108:

    Not to be indelicate, the current British PM is under that table being used as a footstool, and he’d like you all to know that he’s just happy to serve.

    The don’t call Sunak the Prime Miniature for nothing.

  27. 27.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 8:35 am

    @TS: An open Democratic primary season, on the other hand, would be very exciting for reporters and pundits. That would also be expensive and divisive for Democrats but hey- you can’t make a omelet without breaking eggs!

  28. 28.

    Cacti

    September 11, 2023 at 8:35 am

    @rikyrah: Biden is competent and boring.

    The only legit concern I see for the casual voter is that he’s in his 80s. But that’s mitigated by the fact that he is chief competitor will be 78.

    On a personal note, I do find it mildly depressing that a quarter of the way into the 21st century, our choices will likely be two guys born in the 1940s…again.

  29. 29.

    Another Scott

    September 11, 2023 at 8:42 am

    @gene108: Sure, but will it change any votes?

    The reading of the tea leaves seems all over the map…

    AlJazeera (from September 8 (before the Declaration)):

    […]

    But winds of change appear to be blowing. India has started to become more outspoken about the war in Ukraine. In recent years, it has pared back its defence purchases from Russia, turning, instead, to the US, France and Israel. And the price of Russian oil has risen, making it less lucrative to buy for India. Meanwhile, Putin has decided to skip the G20 summit while all Western leaders, including US President Joe Biden, are attending.

    So, is India slowly drifting away from Russia? And what could that mean for the global order?

    The short answer: India is unlikely to formally break up with Russia anytime soon. But some experts warn that their friendship has grown into a liability for New Delhi’s geopolitical ambitions, including as a trustworthy peacemaker in the current war in Ukraine. And the trajectory of the India-Russia relationship is clear: It is in steady decline, while the Modi government has bolstered ties with the West.

    […]

    Obama talked about a “pivot to East Asia” and started the process. Biden is continuing it.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  30. 30.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 8:42 am

    Besides finally speaking out against Tuberville, House Foreign Relations Chairman McCaul has also been a forthright supporter of Ukraine and of military aid to that country. Most of his fellow House Republicans have been on the fence on this question, but with the Biden administration’s request for more military aid pending. McCaul’s colleagues may have to come down on one side or the other.

  31. 31.

    Jeffro

    September 11, 2023 at 8:44 am

    @Geminid:An open Democratic primary season, on the other hand, would be very exciting for reporters and pundits.

    I can see that, at least initially, but then that quickly gets boring too: “Today, President Biden sparred with his three lunatic obvious grifter and/or Bannon stooge opponents for the Democratic Presidential nom…oh, who am I kidding?  Sal, I can’t do this, it’s just too stupid and we’ve been trying to make it a thing for months now!  Can we go back to reporting on the GOP’s not-all-that-slow disintegration?  No?  Ooooookay fine…let’s go in 5, 4, 3…”

    OT but I saw your note several threads ago about the JMU/UVA football game and I’m happy to report that both sides seemed relatively happy with the outcome: JMU for the win, UVA that it was only by a point.  And of course absolutely everyone in town was so hammered that they might not have been aware that there was a game.  =)

  32. 32.

    schrodingers_cat

    September 11, 2023 at 8:47 am

    @Another Scott: Actually how Modi is perceived internationally matters a lot to the core BJP voter. According to them India has become a world leader and is respected because their man is in charge. Hosting the G20 is being billed as some huge foreign policy success

    So in this dog and pony show, Modi was the hero and all the other world leaders were simps bedazzled by Modi’s and India’s greatness.

  33. 33.

    lowtechcyclist

    September 11, 2023 at 8:51 am

    @Jeffro:

    And of course absolutely everyone in town was so hammered that they might not have been aware that there was a game.  =)

    Gee, are you suggesting that C’ville might be a party town?  Say it ain’t so! ;-)

  34. 34.

    Betty

    September 11, 2023 at 8:51 am

    It ‘s more than just they are lazy and he is boring although there is plenty of that. The Max Boot headline in an article on Biden’s trip highlights the limitations of democracy in Biden’s visit to Vietnam. While that may be true, why highlight a negative when the trip was generally viewed as successful? Again it’s the choices they make in describing his Presidency that are infuriating.

  35. 35.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 8:52 am

    @Jeffro: Biden would not be in the mix if these pundits had thei way.

    I saw a Democrat talking about how neat it would be to watch “Gretchen,” “Pete” and “Kamala” debate. I thought this showed a very unserious approach to politics, but some Democrats do not have that serious an approach. The pundits are exploiting this unserious attitide.

    But I agreed with Rachel Bitecofer, who does have a serious approach that is informed by the findings of other political scientists, when she said:

       We’d be fools not to nominate our incumbent!

  36. 36.

    Jeffro

    September 11, 2023 at 8:54 am

    @lowtechcyclist: Cville is a party town; most Dukes can drink most Hoos under the table, though!   =)

  37. 37.

    Marmot

    September 11, 2023 at 8:56 am

    putting developments in perspective so you can see what are mountains and what are molehills in the legal landscape

    Is it too early to complain about language? I do so hate this fake formalism in nested questions in English. It’s best to let it slide in non-native speakers, but there’s no excuse for actual journalists to avoid putting the verb at the end: “… what the mountains and molehills are …”

    See? Easy and short. And you don’t sound like a Continental accidentally tripping over Germanic roots.

  38. 38.

    frosty

    September 11, 2023 at 8:59 am

    Ms. F has a WaPo subscription and we’ve never used  a gift link. If there’s a way to send them to you, let me know and I’ll do it.

  39. 39.

    bbleh

    September 11, 2023 at 8:59 am

    Subscriber here, and looks like I’m far from the only one, so I’d say just post when you need one and somebody will add it in comments.  Also NYT (yeah yeah whatever I get it for $1/week).

  40. 40.

    Baud

    September 11, 2023 at 9:00 am

    @Geminid:

    It’s entertainment over governance.

  41. 41.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 9:01 am

    @lowtechcyclist: U. Va. students are very resilient in the face of setbacks!

    More seriously, this game was a huge win for JMU. They only moved to Division I last year, and now they’ve beaten one of the state’s two top Division I teams.

  42. 42.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 11, 2023 at 9:01 am

    The best thing I did to be effective as WHCOS was stop reading Playbook.

    Simple, short smackdown.  Well done.

  43. 43.

    schrodingers_cat

    September 11, 2023 at 9:01 am

    @gene108: India has always been an important country. PM Nehru, who the BJP has spend a decade demonizing was far more respected than the current fascist Hitler wannabe will ever be.

    And Indira Gandhi stood up to the United States during the Bangladesh War. Modi hasn’t stood up to Chinese incursions in Ladakh. He and his party shows how manly they are by bullying Muslims and Dalits.

    And India is still impoverished even though BJP would like to deny that reality by putting green screens over Delhi’s poor and destitute.

  44. 44.

    Soprano2

    September 11, 2023 at 9:04 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: This, 1,000%. They are super-bored writing about Biden’s policy achievements, so they think their readers will be bored too. If they thought for even a second they could figure out interesting ways to cover these things, like finding people who found out their student loans were forgiven by one of the programs Biden has instituted and interviewing them, or finding Biden voters and talking to them. They won’t do that, though, because they want TFG back. He made it easy for them to write stories all day every day without having to do much research – they just had to wait for someone from the super-leaky TFG White House to call them with information about the latest outrage, then write it up (or not, maybe they could save it for the book they’re writing).

  45. 45.

    narya

    September 11, 2023 at 9:04 am

    One of the things I appreciate about the O-Bros (Pod Save America) is that their political strategizing conversations are founded more in reality, not to mention actual experience, including experience with Biden. For example, in listening to last week’s episode, they dug into the head-to-head polling (and mocked themselves for doing it)–but then said, look, part of the problem is that some of the people that Biden is losing, people who voted for him before but seem less inclined to do so, don’t actually know what he’s done. They’re not political junkies like the rest of us. And then they pivoted to how one goes about getting that information to the people they want to reach, including reviewing a couple of Biden’s ads. The podcast has grown on me, and I think it’s because they have experience, and also they try not to indulge in too much doom-casting.

  46. 46.

    Hoodie

    September 11, 2023 at 9:05 am

    @rikyrah: It may also be a bit of the smartest kid in the room syndrome, i.e., it gives them a chance to show how smart they are by twisting themselves in knots to come up with criticisms of Democrats.  The NYpitchbot catches that with its satires of convoluted NYT headlines.  In some sense, it’s too easy to criticize the GOP, they’re just a bunch of crooks and lunatics.  No chance to show off there.

  47. 47.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    September 11, 2023 at 9:06 am

    @Soprano2: I don’t know how the division of labor works in reporting. Maybe White House press corps has a different charge than other reporters, for instance.

  48. 48.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 11, 2023 at 9:08 am

    @rikyrah:

    They miss being stenographers.

    Biden is competent and boring.

    He gives nothing for their FUTURE BOOKS 😡

    Where are the manchild tantrums?  Where’s the throwing burnt steak drown in ketchup at the wall?  Where’s the calling everyone a loser?

    Biden is so BOOOOOOORRRRRING!  Wah!

  49. 49.

    cain

    September 11, 2023 at 9:09 am

    @schrodingers_cat:

    G20 meeting in India was the launch of Modi’s (and BJP’s) reelection campaign.

    He’s going to get re-elected. If my family is any metric. Indian pride is at an all time high. I must admit that things like the moon launch, Indian athleticism, and so on. It’s been a good run so far.

    I don’t think Modi has anything to do with that. I think Indian society has been changing for the good despite that asshole.

  50. 50.

    Soprano2

    September 11, 2023 at 9:11 am

    @narya: ITA, I get a lot from their analysis because they’ve been down in the trenches with this stuff. They’re honest about problems and weaknesses with Biden and his campaign, too.

  51. 51.

    cain

    September 11, 2023 at 9:12 am

    @TS:

    How it started “Media: Fuck yeah! Civil war, we can write endless creeds about horse race and what not, it’s gonna be awesome – we’re going to get soooo many hits – people will be on the edge of their seats”

    How it’ll likely end. “Media: WTF! Nobody is reading our articles, nobody is watching our shows because of all the violence, uncertainty, and instability because of a civil war!”

  52. 52.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 11, 2023 at 9:12 am

    @rikyrah:

    What exactly are Biden ‘s vulnerabilities. 

    Last time I looked, Biden wasn’t indicted four times with 91 felony charges 😒

    Get Ken Starr on the case!  He’ll find some vulnerabilities!

    Oh wait…  He’s with Rummy and Powell.

  53. 53.

    Marmot

    September 11, 2023 at 9:13 am

    @Soprano2:

    If they thought for even a second they could figure out interesting ways to cover these things, like finding people who found out their student loans were forgiven by one of the programs Biden has instituted and interviewing them, or finding Biden voters and talking to them.

    I heard that exact story on NPR (ATC or something—don’t remember) like two or three days ago. Not that their coverage has been great, but maybe some of ‘em are learning?

  54. 54.

    cain

    September 11, 2023 at 9:13 am

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Reporting on who’s up and who’s down is easy and fun, from their perspective.  But that requires a certain level of turmoil.  And Biden’s not giving them any of that – I really loved Ron Klain saying his secret sauce was not reading Playbook.  Biden and his team are trying to get shit done – they passed major legislation last year, and now they’re implementing it.

    I would love to know about what these bills are doing – how they are improving things. Specifically, I want to know what the bills are doing to improve Amtrak or electrification – the green economy. We need to know these things in case we want to change jobs or invest – it’s important.

  55. 55.

    schrodingers_cat

    September 11, 2023 at 9:20 am

    @schrodingers_cat: *has spent.

    @cain: I wouldn’t count my chickens before they hatch. Karnataka was the BJP stronghold until it wasn’t.  I doubt that your family or mine for that matter is representative of the average Indian

    Also, Indians are being fed a steady diet of propaganda. BTW have you watched the documentary on press freedom in India. Its through the POV of  NDTV’s Ravish Kumar, While we watched. It is airing on PBS stations right now.

    Manipur which has a BJP government at the state level is experiencing civil war like conditions. The tribal community there is being ethnically cleansed since May. But people in our family’s cohort either don’t know or more likely don’t care.

  56. 56.

    Ken

    September 11, 2023 at 9:20 am

    @cain: Another possible ending: Media: “WTF! Eight more reporters beaten and one killed by Trump supporters yesterday! Why isn’t Biden doing more to stop the violence?”

  57. 57.

    tobie

    September 11, 2023 at 9:21 am

    Dems should run a 30 second TV ad about the rebuilding of I95 outside of Philadelphia in two weeks. I can imagine a deep voice intoning:

    They said it couldn’t be done.

    A portion of a major artery for American commerce had collapsed.

    President Biden and Governor Shapiro rebuilt it in 2 weeks.

    They got the job done.

    This is what competence in governing looks like.

    Pictures of flag, happy unionized workers in the background.

    Americans don’t like abstractions so this is one anecdote to showcase.

  58. 58.

    narya

    September 11, 2023 at 9:24 am

    @cain:Specifically, I want to know what the bills are doing to improve Amtrak

    I have taken a lot of long-distance trains over the years (I hate flying). I remember chatting with conductors DECADES ago about how they had to cannibalize their equipment for parts. Sharing track with freight trains is a major issue; not having track rights (i.e., someone else is responsible for track maintenance) is another. I really have my fingers crossed for this new money.

  59. 59.

    Soprano2

    September 11, 2023 at 9:25 am

    I know some of you don’t like Twitter (I refuse to call it X, that’s super dumb), but this thread by Wajahat Ali is topical to this discussion.

  60. 60.

    tobie

    September 11, 2023 at 9:26 am

    @cain: That’s my impression too. I spent yesterday with my husband’s cousins in NJ. They are beaming with pride. India was apparently singled out for praise at the G20 for being the most advanced nation when it comes to digital payments. As far as they’re concerned the economy’s booming, corruption at the federal level has supposedly been cleaned up, etc

    ETA: All agreed that Vivek Ramaswamy was an embarrassment to Tamil Americans. These are not rightwingers but they do complain about the burden of the regulatory state on innovation.

  61. 61.

    Anne Laurie

    September 11, 2023 at 9:27 am

    @Another Scott: Obama talked about a “pivot to East Asia” and started the process. Biden is continuing it.

    I’ve always gotten the impression that India was ‘nice’ to Russia mostly because they didn’t want Russia in their own personal yard (Pakistan’s ties to Russia were quite bad enough).  But right now, Russia’s kinda busy in its own neighborhood… and Joe Biden has a lot more to offer than, say, that sleasy TFG character.

    Modi’s a stone-cold authoritarian himself, but he certainly understands how many beans make five, as the Brits say.

  62. 62.

    frosty

    September 11, 2023 at 9:28 am

    A question for front-pagers and the Jackaltariat: I read lots and lots of comments about reporters, how they do their work, and why they do it. What I haven’t read is any evidence. I have former reporters in my family and the speculation doesn’t match their experience. What I’m looking for is links for any of the following:
    – Any report where a reporter says on the record that the story was spiked by the editor because of pressure from the owners.
    – Same from an editor who said the publisher/owners didn’t want the story published.
    – Quote from a reporter that the story wasn’t covered because it was needed for a book.
    – Any info on which reporters are getting high 6-figure and 7-figure salaries. Is it only the TV talking heads? The national pundits? All reporters with a MS from Columbia Journalism School? It sure wasn’t my brother working for Gannett and the AP.
    You get the picture. I’d just like to move on from speculative (and sometimes rote) responses to get some actual evidence that this kind of thing is happening.
    Thanks!​
    ETA: Yes, they act like stenographers. In some ways they are, especially on the lower level, printing press releases. Have any reporters gone on the record saying that they were told that was their job and stop trying to dig deeper?​

  63. 63.

    p.a.

    September 11, 2023 at 9:30 am

    @Jeffro: Cville is a party town; most Dukes can drink most Hoos under the table, though!   =)

     

    The Duke regular season dominance over UVa’s men’s lacrosse team is extraordinary.

  64. 64.

    Scout211

    September 11, 2023 at 9:31 am

    Trump’s speech in South Dakota Friday took a dark turn.  It looked like he was there to woo Noem as his veep, but he took the spotlight for himself as usual.

    It might not be typical, but there is no “both sides” to this analysis by Stephen Collinson.  TL;DR:  Trump is a demagogue campaigning to be a powerful authoritarian leader.

    CNNDonald Trump is conjuring his most foreboding vision yet of a possible second term, telling supporters in language resonant of the run-up to the January 6 mob attack on the US Capitol that they need to “fight like hell” or they will lose their country.

    The rhetorical escalation from the four-times-indicted ex-president came at a rally in South Dakota on Friday night where he accused his possible 2024 opponent, President Joe Biden, of ordering his indictment on 91 charges across four criminal cases as a form of election interference.


    “I don’t think there’s ever been a darkness around our nation like there is now,” Trump said, in a dystopian speech in which he accused Democrats of allowing an “invasion” of migrants over the southern border and of trying to restart Covid “hysteria.”

    The Republican front-runner’s stark speech raised the prospect of a second presidency that would be even more extreme and challenging to the rule of law than his first. His view that the Oval Office confers unfettered powers suggests Trump would indulge in similar conduct as that for which he is awaiting trial, including intimidating local officials in an alleged bid to overturn his 2020 defeat.

  65. 65.

    schrodingers_cat

    September 11, 2023 at 9:33 am

    @Anne Laurie: Actually India and Russia had similar geo-political interests and affinities since they were both on the receiving end of benevolent imperialism by the West.

    The racist attitudes of the Nixon administration towards India are on tape. Without Russia’s help Bangladesh war would not have been won

    No Indian government is going to completely abandon Russia it is just not going to happen

    India’s fondness towards Russia is not an act.

  66. 66.

    satby

    September 11, 2023 at 9:33 am

    @narya: USDOT describes what the first year of funding will be used for, so that’s the work scheduled out right now.

    Amtrak’s plans for the money detailed in this business traveler trade magazine piece. I really like train travel, so I’m excited about the improvements.

  67. 67.

    Yarrow

    September 11, 2023 at 9:35 am

    @tobie:  Agreed. The collapse made national news and the quick repair did also. People outside of those who use it know about it.

  68. 68.

    p.a.

    September 11, 2023 at 9:38 am

    Politics and policy may have the same roots, but our failed media only cares or is only mentally able to “get” politics.  It’s just about reading polls and mimicking other Politics media.  Policy needs at least passing acquaintance with social science, statistics, econ, history, yadda-yadda.  It takes work.

    They won’t/can’t.

  69. 69.

    sab

    September 11, 2023 at 9:40 am

    @frosty: There are reporters and reporters. The locals in contrast to the DC in-crowd. The former are reporters. The latter are courtiers.

  70. 70.

    Baud

    September 11, 2023 at 9:42 am

    @frosty:

    Not exactly what you’re looking for, but a Juicer reported that her daughter was contacted by the NYT to report on one of the Women’s Marches, but they were only interested in women who were disappointed with Biden.  The daughter rejected the job.

  71. 71.

    Scout211

    September 11, 2023 at 9:43 am

    I saw that Jennifer Rubin’s latest commentary is entitled, I don’t write about polls. You shouldn’t bother with them, either.

    Since it’s behind a subscription wall, has anyone read it?  Is it as good as it sounds like it would be?

  72. 72.

    narya

    September 11, 2023 at 9:44 am

    @satby: Oooh, nice, thank you! What I also want to see (because I’m a dreamer like that) is more stations across the country, and more high-speed rail outside the northeast corridor. I realize those are much bigger asks, but a person can dream.

  73. 73.

    Betty Cracker

    September 11, 2023 at 9:45 am

    @frosty: Sometimes we conflate the millionaire celebrity TV pundits (Todd, Tapper, et al), columnists who focus on politics (Will, Stephens, etc.) and the Beltway print media reporter/political book author celebrities (Haberman, Chozick) with honest, hardworking reporters. We shouldn’t do that.

  74. 74.

    Anonymous At Work

    September 11, 2023 at 9:47 am

    WaPo’s tracker is incredibly lite on substance, even less so on legal significance, and what substance/significance makes it through the editors ends up being bothsiderish.  It’s like trying to make “Cincinnati ””’chili””” at a Texas Chili Cookoff (5 air quotes is bare minimum).

  75. 75.

    Cacti

    September 11, 2023 at 9:47 am

    @schrodingers_cat: Without Russia’s help Bangladesh war would not have been won

    By Russia, you mean the Soviet Union.

    Yeah, swell bunch they were. Including their ex-KGB colonel now running the show in Moscow.

  76. 76.

    cain

    September 11, 2023 at 9:47 am

    @schrodingers_cat:

    India’s fondness towards Russia is not an act.

    This is true – when I was attending school in Bangalore – we would regularly get the day off when a Russian dignitary would show up. Good times.

  77. 77.

    jonas

    September 11, 2023 at 9:48 am

    @narya: ​
     

    Sharing track with freight trains is a major issue; not having track rights (i.e., someone else is responsible for track maintenance) is another. I really have my fingers crossed for this new money.

    I love Amtrak, but outside the NE Corridor where it owns the tracks, it’s just a total crapshoot whether you’ll arrive merely one hour late or six. And, like you say, it’s basically the freight companies willfully being dicks about prioritizing their trains over Amtrak, which is technically illegal, but Amtrak can’t do anything about it because they’re Amtrak and the train companies are massive Fortune 500 corporations with lobbyists and bought-and-paid-for Congresspeople who let them do whatever they want. You know, until their trains catch fire, derail, and destroy a small town.

  78. 78.

    narya

    September 11, 2023 at 9:48 am

    @Scout211: It’s the Balloon Juice comments section, with less swearing. Polling is broken; voters say contradictory things; we’re too far out for the polls to mean anything; poll questions are often biased; too much horse race BS, when democracy hangs in the balance.

  79. 79.

    schrodingers_cat

    September 11, 2023 at 9:50 am

    Upper caste and well to do Indians are BJP’s core constituency. So that they buy into all the BJP propaganda that reinforces their priors is not a huge surprise.

    BTW Tamil Brahmins are less than 2% of the state’s population ( the demographic group in cain and tobie’s anecdotal evidence) and during the 2019 elections where BJP won its biggest majority so far BJP did not win a single Lokasabha seat in Tamil Nadu.

  80. 80.

    Caroline

    September 11, 2023 at 9:51 am

    I also have gift links for WaPo and FTFNYT (I never use them) so reach out if you need. However it seems like I’m always looking at BJ later than everybody else, so I’m not sure how helpful this is…how are all y’all commenting so quickly all the time?

  81. 81.

    Yarrow

    September 11, 2023 at 9:51 am

    Re: our failed political media, I’ve posted this Vox explainer piece/video before – CNN treats politics like a sport – but it’s interesting to go back and look at it again. It’s from 2017 so it’s a bit old now, and it’s kind of funny and interesting to see how many of the players aren’t there anymore, but the basic premise of it still stands. Our cable channels set up their political “coverage” to mimic sports coverage where people yell at each other. The more yelling and outrage the more eyeballs. It’s entertainment, not actual journalism.

  82. 82.

    schrodingers_cat

    September 11, 2023 at 9:52 am

    @Cacti: They are an awful bunch. I am not defending Russia or India. Just explaining the geopolitical scenario India found itself in during the Cold War.

    Yes I meant the Soviet Union.

  83. 83.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 9:53 am

     

     

    @cain: You can find out how these bills are impacting the clean energy transition by looking up “clean energy, “electrical grid ” “wind power” “passenger rail” etc. every few days. A lot doesn’t get reported by national news sites, but state and local news sites as well as specialized news outfits cover this area well.

  84. 84.

    schrodingers_cat

    September 11, 2023 at 9:58 am

    BJP is corrupt and has used the state machinery to silence its critics, both political and in the civil society.

    Watch this documentary to get a glimpse of what I am saying.

  85. 85.

    smith

    September 11, 2023 at 9:58 am

    @Ken: Another possible ending: Media: “WTF! Eight more reporters beaten and one killed by Trump supporters yesterday! Why isn’t Biden doing more to stop the violence?”

    Isn’t it amazing that these political reporters imagine that the First Amendment would remain intact in a second TFG term?

  86. 86.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 9:58 am

    @Scout211: A friend in Atlanta watched Trump’s South Dakpta speech. He thought Trump sounded down personally- “like a defeated man” is how my friend put it.

  87. 87.

    Kristine

    September 11, 2023 at 9:59 am

    @tobie: Gov Shapiro has been saying just this on social media. I’ve seen it on Threads.

  88. 88.

    Spanish Moss

    September 11, 2023 at 10:02 am

    I have Post gift links you can use when you need some, just let me know.

  89. 89.

    satby

    September 11, 2023 at 10:03 am

    @narya: I believe those are in the Amtrak plans for the future. Lots more communities, lots more stations. I don’t quite envision the US getting to European levels of public train travel, but if that all is funded and can be subsidized by profits and government investment, it could be much better.

  90. 90.

    zhena gogolia

    September 11, 2023 at 10:04 am

    @Scout211:
    This part caught my eye:

    Fourth, polling seems designed to make a point. Asking voters whether they want an imaginary, younger Democratic candidate when the only candidate who will get the nomination is Joe Biden is effectively asking people to underscore the point that the president is old. (Oddly, Republicans aren’t often asked whether they’d rather have someone not accused of 91 crimes.) It tells us nothing about what voters will do when presented with a choice between an 80-year-old, sane and accomplished incumbent running against an only slightly younger, unhinged, accused felon. (Apparently, because Trump has an indictment problem, “balance” means treating age as an equal liability for Biden.)

  91. 91.

    cain

    September 11, 2023 at 10:04 am

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I’ll check it out. I didn’t know about Manipur – but going after indigenous people is definitely fucking evil. What is the general state of the world where every modern society has to go after indigenous people – it seems to be happening everywhere.

  92. 92.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 10:06 am

    @narya: Right now Amtrak runs passenger trains at 150mph over just a few routes outside the Northeast corridor, and more run within a 120mph speed limit. Some of the Infrastructure bill money is being spent upgrading track in order to enable higher speeds, but the bulk will be spent on expanding Amtrak’s service map.

    There was also a lot of money in the Infrastructure bill for mass transit, $10 billion for New York City’s MTA alone.

  93. 93.

    Marmot

    September 11, 2023 at 10:07 am

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Actually India and Russia had similar geo-political interests and affinities since they were both on the receiving end of benevolent imperialism by the West.

    I’m no expert, but the Brits kicked the tar out of them in Crimea, and what else? Russia has been imperialist beyond measure for centuries.

    If Russia-as-victim is the majority impression in India, that’s one thing. But it’s not a strong argument.

  94. 94.

    jonas

    September 11, 2023 at 10:09 am

    @frosty: ​
      Those are fair questions. I don’t know about the owners-spiking-stories angle, but from what I recall, it was well-known that both Maggie Haberman and Bob Woodward sat on bombshells about the Trump WH for quite a while so that it could appear in their books.

  95. 95.

    satby

    September 11, 2023 at 10:09 am

    @Caroline: Lotsa retired folks, plus more who work a great deal online.

    Also, if you or anyone has a gift link to the Jennifer Rubin column, just copy it and attach it as you would a regular link here. People share gift links all the time on Twitter that way

  96. 96.

    jonas

    September 11, 2023 at 10:12 am

    @narya: ​
      I think after the debacle that the California HSR project has become, nobody’s going to be touching it elsewhere in the country for a *loooong* time to come, unfortunately.

  97. 97.

    schrodingers_cat

    September 11, 2023 at 10:16 am

    @Marmot: I am trying to give you a perspective into how Russia is viewed in India. Russia has been an ally since independence. Most Indians (me included) know the barest outline of Russian history beyond the 20th century

    FWIW I don’t agree with Russia as the victim POV at all.

  98. 98.

    schrodingers_cat

    September 11, 2023 at 10:18 am

    @cain: You didn’t see that extremely triggering violent video of Kuki women being paraded naked?

    BBC has  a brief explainer

  99. 99.

    sab

    September 11, 2023 at 10:18 am

    @Betty Cracker: I have two local reporter in-laws and a nephew journalist. None of them were like the DC tv guys.

    My nephew was a top technology guy at DocumentCloud (the legal, reporter friendly, wikileaks alternative.) People who knew stuff and had documentation could post it on line where reoprters could access it to compare their local reporting to others elsewhere. BJ frontpagers cite their stuff a lot.

    There are still a lot of serious journalists outside of the cable and news beltway. There are bery few serious journalists inside the DC (or NYC)  beltway. We have to stop thinking of cable news or national news anchors as journalists, They just aren’t. They are celebrities seeking celebrity.

  100. 100.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    September 11, 2023 at 10:18 am

    Should I be using one of my precious ‘gift links’ to share this with those of you who aren’t WaPo subscribers?

    Yes, absolutely!

  101. 101.

    Ken

    September 11, 2023 at 10:19 am

    @Caroline: how are all y’all commenting so quickly all the time?

    I have no life. (sob)

  102. 102.

    lowtechcyclist

    September 11, 2023 at 10:21 am

    @Jeffro:

    Cville is a party town; most Dukes can drink most Hoos under the table, though!   =)

    I’ll have to take your word for that!  I’ve spent 30 years of my life in Virginia and five in South Carolina, but managed to mostly skip right over NC.

  103. 103.

    schrodingers_cat

    September 11, 2023 at 10:21 am

    @sab: Agreed there are lot of good beat reporters even inside the Beltway. Scott MacFarlane who has been reporting on Jan 6 trials comes to mind.

  104. 104.

    lowtechcyclist

    September 11, 2023 at 10:23 am

    @Geminid:

    U. Va. students are very resilient in the face of setbacks!

    Damn straight, I was a Wahoo once!

    More seriously, this game was a huge win for JMU. They only moved to Division I last year, and now they’ve beaten one of the state’s two top Division I teams.

    Watch out, Hokies!

  105. 105.

    Marmot

    September 11, 2023 at 10:24 am

    @schrodingers_cat: Yeah, I figured you were talking more about the perception of Russia in India.

    But man oh man is Russia’s history—even recent history—filled with imperialism. Just ask the Ukrainians, Czechs, Poles, Hungarians, and so on. I find it baffling that the victimhood angle gets any traction.

    But hey, I guess that’s what authoritarians do—screech victimhood.

  106. 106.

    sab

    September 11, 2023 at 10:25 am

    @schrodingers_cat:

  107. 107.

    jonas

    September 11, 2023 at 10:25 am

    @schrodingers_cat: ​
      I don’t know about Russia being on the receiving end of any Western imperialism, but I always assumed the Russia/India alliance developed because the USSR, at least on paper, was stridently anti-imperialist and offered itself as an ally to countries looking to resist or counterbalance American and British influence, with India of course very high on that list.

  108. 108.

    Frankensteinbeck

    September 11, 2023 at 10:29 am

    @Cacti:

    Doesn’t matter how awful they are or how we see them.  Only India’s experience with them and how they see Russia matters here.  I trust Schrödinger to be reporting that accurately.

  109. 109.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 10:29 am

    @jonas: California has singular problems of geography and politics working against the high speed rail connection between the Bay Area and LA. Dedicated high speed rail service would still face problems in other areas, cost being the greatest.

    But I am fine with passenger trains running a measly 150mph. Our passenger airplane infrastructure is built out and if someone wants speed they can still get it. That sector should be carbon-neutral by 2040 anyway.

  110. 110.

    frosty

    September 11, 2023 at 10:32 am

    @Scout211: ​Yes, Rubin’s column was good. I told Ms. F to read it when she was getting discouraged yesterday. Here’s (I hope) a gift link:
    https://wapo.st/3rac2gW​

  111. 111.

    Marmot

    September 11, 2023 at 10:33 am

    @jonas:

    I always assumed the Russia/India alliance developed because the USSR, at least on paper, was stridently anti-imperialist and offered itself as an ally to countries looking to resist or counterbalance American and British influence, with India of course very high on that list.

    I guess I always assumed India’s embrace of Russia was simply due to it being a counterbalance at all. That anti-imperialist talk from Russia was always the most transparent, meaningless crap. A pretext for others.

    ETA: grammar

  112. 112.

    lowtechcyclist

    September 11, 2023 at 10:33 am

    @frosty:

    – Quote from a reporter that the story wasn’t covered because it was needed for a book.

    Can’t think of them right now, but several examples have come up here of stories and quotes that first appeared in a book, but would have been valuable knowledge at the time the reporter first heard them.

  113. 113.

    frosty

    September 11, 2023 at 10:36 am

    @jonas:We took the AutoTrain from Virginia to Florida last February. Definitely a nice way to travel and price-competitive with airfare/rental car and driving/motels. But the ride! It was a little tough to sleep getting bounced all over the bunk. At some points it felt like driving on a washboarded dirt road.
    It’s the result of running passenger trains on freight railroad tracks. They used to do it 100 years ago because the same railroad was running both. Now it seems like they don’t have to care so much and the rough ride is the result.

  114. 114.

    p.a.

    September 11, 2023 at 10:41 am

    @Geminid: CityNerd is a good youtube channel that in part deals with rail, and IIRC his research shows that with effective, not even world-class speed, rail travel is time-efficient relative to flying up to 600 miles (minimal security time spent vs air, minimal boarding time, and destination is city centers where you want to get anyway, not some airport that then necessitates further time spent traveling to the city.

  115. 115.

    sab

    September 11, 2023 at 10:42 am

    @schrodingers_cat: Yes there are. They are more interested in their stories and information than celebrity so we hear less about them. Which is unfortunate, because they have more actual news ( new information.)

  116. 116.

    Kelly

    September 11, 2023 at 10:45 am

    Apologies to the Lovin’ Spoonful

    Beltway Hacks (Nashville Cats)

    Beltway hacks, carry Republican’s water

    Beltway hacks, both sides is what they do

    Beltway hacks, been writing horse shit since they were babies

    Beltway hacks, meet for drinks at two

  117. 117.

    Jay C

    September 11, 2023 at 10:50 am

    @frosty:

    Yes. High-speed passenger rail really only works well when it utilizes track that is straight, level, well-supported and regularly maintained; and is dedicated (or, at the minimum, prioritized) for HSR. It’s how the French created the TGV system: but then again, that trackage was engineered as a government project where cost (as with most French government-funded programs) was no object. Of course here (as the California project has shown) things work differently….

  118. 118.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 10:53 am

    @p.a.: Yes, there are tradeoffs with air travel compared to rail service, providing rail service is available. Improvements in local bus service might change the equation some.

    Bus service is also improving on city-to-city routes, both in quantity and in quality, and presents a 3rd alternative to rail and air travel.

  119. 119.

    Scout211

    September 11, 2023 at 10:53 am

    @zhena gogolia: Thanks!

    @frosty: Thank you for the gift link.

    I particularly liked this point:

    Third, even if you think polling is somewhat reliable, there’s no evidence that polling more than a year (or even eight months) before a presidential election is accurate. Democratic consultant Simon Rosenberg (one of the few to debunk the red wave in advance of the 2022 midterms) recently wrote: “At the end of the day polling is only a snapshot into a moment, and cannot predict anything. Things change all the time in politics — change is the constant.”

    I wish the political reporters would acknowledge that the polls they are reporting on are snapshots of individual moments in time.   But since the new wave of news reporting involves predicting the future, using “may,” “might,” “could,” “”would,” etc., the reporters seem to believe that predicting the future from a snapshot keeps the readers reading.  Sigh.

  120. 120.

    Percysowner

    September 11, 2023 at 10:56 am

    The Atlantic is here to tell us how lucky we are to have Ross EFFING Douthat as the voice of reason in our world Ross Douthat’s Theories of Persuasion At a time of distrust and polarization, the conservative Times columnist seeks to bridge the worlds of the Christian ri It is behind a paywall, but you get 5 free articles per month.
    The article starts thusly

    This summer, Ross Douthat, liberal America’s favorite conservative commentator, wrote a piece about liberal America’s least favorite Democrat, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Douthat argued in his New York Times column that an unwillingness to debate Kennedy—who has claimed that childhood vaccines cause autism, that 5G networks are part of a mass-surveillance system, and that COVID was designed to spare Jewish and Chinese people—was an insufficient response to voters who are increasingly distrustful of the establishment. “If you don’t think he should be publicly debated, you need some other theory of how the curious can be persuaded away from his ideas,” Douthat wrote. “Right now the main alternative theory seems to be to enforce an intellectual quarantine, policed by media fact-checking and authoritative expert statements. And I’m sorry, but that’s just a total flop.”

    And then goes on to say

    Douthat is highly skilled at addressing liberal Times readers in a manner that makes clear he is not one of them, without allowing them to think that he actually holds views—about Donald Trump, say, or the importance of vaccines—that would render him beyond the pale. If asked to debate Kennedy, he continued, “I wouldn’t speak on behalf of the vested authority of science, but on behalf of my more moderate doubts about official knowledge, a much more cautious version of the outsider thinking that he takes to unjustifiable extremes.” In Douthat’s view, the widespread distrust of science and embrace of conspiracy theories about vaccines, among other topics, “hasn’t happened because of bad actors on the internet. It’s happened because institutions and experts have so often proved themselves to be untrustworthy and incompetent as of late.”

    Because, apparently, we are to think that what is really needed is to give Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a larger platform to spread information that gets people killed.

    I mean Holy Guacamole!
    ​

  121. 121.

    p.a.

    September 11, 2023 at 10:57 am

    The big tell re: Amtrak, is that it’s supposed to turn a profit, yet from what I’ve seen at train-info sites, few if any passenger services made money, they were all ‘subsidized’ by their companies’ freight divisions.  The private RRs offered passenger service as a prestige feature and to keep the political class (fed, state, & territory) happy.

  122. 122.

    wjca

    September 11, 2023 at 10:57 am

    Readers: Should I be using one of my precious ‘gift links’ to share this with those of you who aren’t WaPo subscribers? Or can you find what you need elsewhere?

    For those who want to read something in WaPo without a gift link, here’s how you do it:

    1. Right click on the article you want ro read
    2. Select Open in incognito tab (with Chrome; other browsers use slightly different wording).
    3. When the article starts to download, as soon as you see the title, stop the download.  Yes, it can take practice to get fast enough. But you don’t have to be instantaneous, so it’s entirely doable.
    4. Read the article.
    5. Close the incognito tab before trying to look at the next article.

    The trick, the reason it works, is that Step 3 happens after the article downloads, but before the check to see if you are logged in as a subscriber.

  123. 123.

    narya

    September 11, 2023 at 11:02 am

    @Percysowner: You could not pay me enough money to read that fool. I don’t care if he apparently occasionally says something that isn’t completely idiotic; he’s David Brooks in training pants.

  124. 124.

    Alison Rose

    September 11, 2023 at 11:05 am

    The thing that frustrates me so much about Tatertown’s manbaby tantrum bullshit, is that it doesn’t seem to make a difference who says what to him. He doesn’t care. Every single person from every branch of the military could show up and form concentric circles around his house and scream at the top of their lungs that he’s fucking them and the country over and needs to stop, and he’ll still be his same pompous, egotistical self and insist what he’s doing is fine and not a problem for anyone.

    I wish someone would pull a Rand Paul’s Neighbor on him. Might not change anything, but damn, it would be satisfying.

  125. 125.

    rikyrah

    September 11, 2023 at 11:06 am

    @Betty:

    It ‘s more than just they are lazy and he is boring although there is plenty of that. The Max Boot headline in an article on Biden’s trip highlights the limitations of democracy in Biden’s visit to Vietnam. While that may be true, why highlight a negative when the trip was generally viewed as successful? Again it’s the choices they make in describing his Presidency that are infuriating.

     

    But, it’s not more than that.

    They must conform to the BOTH SIDES issue.

    The truth of the matter is:

    We have one political party interested in governing this country. And, doing what’s best for the least of these.

    And, in policy after policy, that’s what this Administration is doing.

    So, you have people doing work for the American people.

     

    And, on the other side, you have clowns, who have no principles, except for hatred of anyone not White and Republican.

    Their policies are hate-filled, and not for the American people.

    If they told the honest truth about Republican actions in the states…

    It wouldn’t even be close, except for a few truly Red States.

  126. 126.

    Alison Rose

    September 11, 2023 at 11:06 am

    @Percysowner:

    Ross Douthat, liberal America’s favorite conservative commentator

    LOL wut

  127. 127.

    opiejeanne

    September 11, 2023 at 11:07 am

    @Percysowner:  “…Ross Douthat, liberal America’s favorite conservative commentator…”

    The author is delusional.

  128. 128.

    Alison Rose

    September 11, 2023 at 11:10 am

    @wjca: Worked for me on Safari, though there is no “open in incognito/private tab” option when you right-click. Instead, right-click and copy link, then go to File and open a new private window, then paste the link and stop the download as you say.

  129. 129.

    hueyplong

    September 11, 2023 at 11:11 am

    @Percysowner: I’m willing to bet a shiny quarter that Ross Douthat (1) doesn’t hold a similar view about the need for Trump to take on GOP candidates in already existing, official debates and (2) had no problem with the GOP basically forbidding any primary process in 2020.

    Sorry, Ross, but the actual story nearly every day is going to be Trump’s criminal trials, the “unfairness” of which could have been avoided if he hadn’t spent so much time criming.

  130. 130.

    UncleEbeneezer

    September 11, 2023 at 11:13 am

    @Tony Jay: Sabalenka still played well though.  She just came back down to Earth from the extreme high level of the first set and started making errors here and there.  But she will be a rival for Coco for sure and will always bring the threat of a somewhat easy 2-set loss for any player.  When she’s redlining there really isn’t much her opponents can do.  Professional players make adjustments and improve their games.  Sabalenka already has mostly fixed a notoriously shaky serve and it got her an Australian Open and to the USO final.  And don’t forget that Iga Swiatek is still in the mix, as is Rybakina and Ons Jabeur.  Coco’s run was amazing.  She’s definitely now on the same level as those others but I wouldn’t say she’s suddenly the favorite in any of those match-ups in the future.  They will all be great rivalries, which will be great for the sport and us fans.

  131. 131.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 11:13 am

    @p.a.: A lot of rail passengers ride on commuter lines. These are often owned and managed by regional transportation boards.

    I think METRA is the one for the Philadelphia area. I remember them adding trains for routes north of the city when I-95 was shut down. Some of those new riders might have decided that the train beats their old driving commute. Ridership numbers since I-95 was fixed should tell that tale.

  132. 132.

    Marmot

    September 11, 2023 at 11:13 am

    @hueyplong: No kidding! The whole idea s one big whattabout Democrats?!

  133. 133.

    hueyplong

    September 11, 2023 at 11:15 am

    @opiejeanne: This lib’s favorite conservative commentator is – by a mile – Jennifer Rubin.

    Had someone told me eight years ago that this would be the case, I would have attempted self-harm.

  134. 134.

    narya

    September 11, 2023 at 11:15 am

    @Geminid: Metra is Chicago; Septa is Philadelphia.

  135. 135.

    jonas

    September 11, 2023 at 11:17 am

    @Geminid: Yeah, trying to build anything over the San Andreas fault was going to be a Herculean challenge, but the real issue turned out to be getting the right-of-ways in the Central Valley and building the electrical infrastructure for hsr. Running a major dedicated elevated train line through some of the most valuable farmland on earth, and having to connect it to a special electrical grid built from scratch, is kinda expensive. This means they can only afford right now to open a line from Bakersfield to Merced eventually, and you’re never going to have enough ridership between two mid-sized agricultural towns to fund expanding the line the rest of the way to the Bay Area or LA.

    As much as I would have loved to have seen this work, it’s never going to, I’m afraid.

  136. 136.

    Baud

    September 11, 2023 at 11:17 am

    @narya:

    Why are rail systems named after the bad guys in Voltron?

  137. 137.

    frosty

    September 11, 2023 at 11:18 am

    @UncleEbeneezer: ​
    @Tony Jay: ​
     I may have to start watching tennis*. Women’s only, though, the men aren’t as interesting.
    *I’ll have to figure out how to do it without cable though. MLB is off the books without a $60/month streaming service. I hope tennis has a better plan.
    ** NFL Ravens are still over-the-air and my (new) antenna picks them up well.​

  138. 138.

    Matt McIrvin

    September 11, 2023 at 11:19 am

    To last thread’s discussion on horseshoe leftists, I should say I also seem to have a lot of liberal online friends who are pissed off at Biden for not being way more hardline on COVID than he is– they basically want us to still be in lockdown or at least have stringent mask and vaccine mandates. And the fact that the people around them aren’t behaving like the pandemic is still on just drives them around the bend, and they blame Democrats for being wimps about it.

    I don’t know, I think a lot of people don’t want to acknowledge political reality.

  139. 139.

    Manyakitty

    September 11, 2023 at 11:21 am

    @Soprano2: sharing a thread is useless for those of us without accounts. Is it possible to get a thread reader link instead?

  140. 140.

    Ghost of Joe Liebling’s Dog

    September 11, 2023 at 11:21 am

    @frosty:

    You could look up “Risen” , “Lichtblau” , “Keller” , and “warrantless wiretapping” , and (I think) find an example. (ETA – possibly a counter-example.)

     

    I’m not sure there’s a clear-cut path to be seen in what was later called “The War on Gore” , but it might be illuminating either way and so might repay your time spent googling.

     

    Does anyone know the outcome, by the way, of the Times‘s “Credibility Project” , launched after pretty much everybody and his dog learned how terrible their reporting had been on the build-up to the war in Iraq ?

     

    Anyway, just a couple of thoughts.

     

    (Edited for formatting.)

  141. 141.

    UncleEbeneezer

    September 11, 2023 at 11:24 am

    Pasting from last thread:

    After a pretty long hiatus from real political activism (my wife lost both parents in the past 6 months so we really needed a break) we finally went to a SwingLeft event last night and I was amazed that there was about 100 people who showed up.  It was great to see a bunch of familiar faces and see that everyone is gearing up and ready to go for 2024 (and smaller races this year).  It’s easy to get down reading polls and spending to much time reading idiots on Xitter etc., but our side (and this is the 10% or so of people who actually do the work) isn’t giving up.  It really lifted my spirits and gives me hope.  If you have the interest/energy, I highly recommend finding a Swing Left chapter near you and starting to get busy again.  Action/Activism is a muscle and you gotta keep it moving. Even just doing a few postcards or going to a party really helps the anxiety and make you feel better.  And Swing Left is pretty cool about realizing that not everyone wants to canvass or phone bank so they try and find things we ARE comfortable doing instead of pushing people to do what they are not.  Really great organization.

  142. 142.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 11:27 am

    @narya: Thanks. I think Metra was on my mind because of the new service planned from Chicago to Rockford.

    When I saw news of it on Twitter, I saw some critic say in effect, “Haw Haw, what does only two round trips a day accomplish?” I’ve noticed that a lot of soreheads who disparage progress in this area will pretend that two round trips are a ceiling, not a floor for further service. A good example of how people dismiss incremental progress as ineffectual.

  143. 143.

    piratedan

    September 11, 2023 at 11:29 am

    @Kelly:

    well, there’s 14,752 reporters in DC

    and they’re out there reporting for whatevers on TV

    and those 14752 reporters in DC

    say whatever the GOP tell them to on the QT

    and that’s all I gotta say about the press and reporters in DC…….

  144. 144.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 11:29 am

    @Matt McIrvin: These peple are also statists who like government compulsion for its own sake.

  145. 145.

    CaseyL

    September 11, 2023 at 11:31 am

    @Matt McIrvin: They completely memory hole the fact that SCOTUS kicked the legs out from under the WH ability to declare a national health emergency.

  146. 146.

    UncleEbeneezer

    September 11, 2023 at 11:31 am

    @Matt McIrvin: Biden can’t magically make people act right.  The reason for lackluster Covid measures is because:

    1.) hospitalizations/deaths are at extremely low levels.  Like single digits of deaths on most days.  There’s just no way you are going to get the US to increase measures with the risk being that low.  That’s just the reality.  This isn’t 2020 anymore.  Covid is still here but it is mostly under control, at least as far as the most obvious measures (not long Covid).

    2.) Republicans control many States and aren’t about to go back to mask/vaccine mandates.  That ship has sailed sadly and there’s nothing Biden or Dems can do about it.

  147. 147.

    wjca

    September 11, 2023 at 11:32 am

    @Scout211: I saw that Jennifer Rubin’s latest commentary is entitled, I don’t write about polls. You shouldn’t bother with them, either.

    Since it’s behind a subscription wall, has anyone read it?  Is it as good as it sounds like it would be?

    She’s also pretty blistering about how terrible a job the media do covering a) what’s wrong with TIFG and b) all the stuff Biden has accomplished.

  148. 148.

    UncleEbeneezer

    September 11, 2023 at 11:33 am

    @CaseyL: THIS!  And Republican Governors refuse to go back to mask/vaccine mandates and frankly, most Americans don’t want to either.  I’d love them.  But I know that I am very much in the minority on that one.  As much as I disagree, the Majority has already won on this issue.

  149. 149.

    catclub

    September 11, 2023 at 11:37 am

    I am always irritated by the Tuberville coverage that does not blame his party for allowing him to block those DOD appointments. If he were by himself on this, he would have already have been railroaded by the rest of the senate.

    Also, lack of reporting that the senate is broken.

  150. 150.

    wjca

    September 11, 2023 at 11:39 am

    @jonas: I love Amtrak, but outside the NE Corridor where it owns the tracks, it’s just a total crapshoot whether you’ll arrive merely one hour late or six.

    Heading east from San Francisco (actually Oakland) towards Chicago  I love the ride thru the Sierras.  It just gorgeous scenery, and you can kick back and enjoy it.

    But coming back? No.  By the time the train from Chicago gets to, say, Reno it will be an unpredictable hour to three days late, or more.  Probably at least a few hours.  What it will never be is on time.

  151. 151.

    rikyrah

    September 11, 2023 at 11:40 am

    This clown. He’s still mad about 2016 and 2020.

    Take his Republican azz and STFU

    Cenk Uygur (@cenkuygur) posted at 0:29 AM on Mon, Sep 11, 2023:
    Has Biden proposed a single policy for his next term? If he’s barely going to try, maybe he should just get out of the race. #DropOut
    (https://x.com/cenkuygur/status/1701105779791761714?t=9PmsC_ifWv7B-PuU7GNmCw&s=03)

  152. 152.

    Scout211

    September 11, 2023 at 11:41 am

    There seems to be lots of opinions here about our upcoming Senate primary and general election here in California.

    Local reporting  is emphasizing the Democrats in disarray part of the story.

    Barbara Lee was unhappy with Governor Newsom’s statement yesterday on NBC that he would only appoint an interim Senator (not one of the three declared candidates), if DiFi resigned.

    Lee released a statement Sunday saying she was “troubled by the governor’s remarks.”

    “The idea that a Black woman should be appointed only as a caretaker to simply check a box is insulting to countless Black women across this country who have carried the Democratic Party to victory election after election,” she said.

    This in response to his former pledge to appoint a Black woman if there was a resignation.  His statement on NBC clearly left her out of a possible appointment and her statement criticizing him seems, I don’t know, unwise?

  153. 153.

    catclub

    September 11, 2023 at 11:42 am

    @hueyplong: ​
     Exactly

  154. 154.

    WereBear

    September 11, 2023 at 11:45 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Well, wonks like it.

    But it takes some depth of mind to enjoy intellectual thrills. Perhaps our Press Corpse doesn’t have the time to understand more than the narrative.

  155. 155.

    Alison Rose

    September 11, 2023 at 11:47 am

    @Scout211: I mean…he would have to appoint someone, and it could only be in a “caretaker” role. He can’t just declare that the election won’t happen. And since he’d already said he would appoint a Black women if there were a resignation, I see it as him sticking to that promise. If he appointed one of the three main candidates, including her, that would be him not just putting his thumb on the scale but his whole damn arm. I’m not sure what she thinks would be the fairer and more appropriate thing to do?

  156. 156.

    WereBear

    September 11, 2023 at 11:47 am

    @lowtechcyclist: If the national press were making middle-class salaries – not even upper middle class, just right in the middle – then just from their friends and neighbors, they’d have a sense of the difference Biden is making in people’s lives, and why this stuff matters.

     
    Journalism was better served when it was press guys and news hens, blue collar workers who understood the forces they were up against.

  157. 157.

    UncleEbeneezer

    September 11, 2023 at 11:49 am

    @frosty: SlingTV can get you most of the big tennis stuff.  ESPN/2 and Tennis Channel covers almost everything.  But every so often there will be a final like the French Open that might be exclusively on NBC or wherever.  When that happens we just sign up for that service for a month and then cancel afterwards.

    The women’s side of tennis is def where it’s at now.  Djokovic pretty much ruins the Men’s game in a whole number of ways.  He dominates too much and is such an asshole.  There are some great up and coming Men’s players like Alcaraz, Sinner, Ben Shelton etc., but the Women’s game is way less toxic and just as entertaining, maybe more so, because you rarely have a game that is just four aces and goes by in 90 seconds.  Longer rallies, more creativity, more volleying etc., by the Women.

  158. 158.

    Miss Bianca

    September 11, 2023 at 11:53 am

    @Alison Rose: I’m just wondering why the hell he made that pledge in the first place. For an interim position, that is.

  159. 159.

    Ken

    September 11, 2023 at 11:56 am

    “…Ross Douthat, liberal America’s favorite conservative commentator…”

    @opiejeanne: The author is delusional.

    Even if they meant it in the sense of the go-to commentator for mockery, there are dozens that are jeered at more often than Douthat.

  160. 160.

    Alison Rose

    September 11, 2023 at 11:57 am

    @Miss Bianca: Well, he got a little guff when he appointed Alex Padilla to Harris’ seat. People said he should’ve appointed a Black woman to replace a Black woman. So I think this was his acknowledgment of that pushback.

  161. 161.

    Matt McIrvin

    September 11, 2023 at 11:58 am

    @UncleEbeneezer: These people are also spreading around social media spin about long COVID that… I don’t want to say it’s 100% wrong, I do think long COVID risks are underplayed in mainstream media,  but it leans toward putting the most alarmist possible spin on everything to the point that the claims can verge on conspiracy theory.

  162. 162.

    NotMax

    September 11, 2023 at 11:59 am

    It takes virtually no time nor effort to bypass the WaPo paywall.

    1) Turn off javascript.
    2) Click a WaPo link.
    .

  163. 163.

    Baud

    September 11, 2023 at 12:00 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The MAGA blame us first for everything too.

  164. 164.

    Ken

    September 11, 2023 at 12:01 pm

    @Scout211: Local reporting  is emphasizing the Democrats in disarray part of the story.

    “More than one Democrat has indicated an interest in running for Senator from the most populous and richest U.S. state, and they each think they’d be better than the others” is disarray now?

  165. 165.

    Uncle Cosmo

    September 11, 2023 at 12:02 pm

    @narya: ​

    NB I post this from the POV of decades as an applied statistician who drafted and ran political polls in my 20s, one of which had an important effect on local politics,

    Statistical surveys (e.g., political polls) are exquisitely sensitive to the phrasing and order of the questions (and the permitted answers) plus the source of the respondents and their social/political makeup relative to the population.

    A competent survey researcher can manipulate these factors to significantly** increase the probability that the results of the survey will tell whoever is paying for the poll whatever they need or want to know. An ethical researcher carefully notes the nature of the sample and all the assumptions built into the survey instrument and process, and caveats the results appropriately.

    IMO there are far more competent but unethical pollsters out there than those both competent and ethical.

    The main problem with publicly-available polls is that most are not at all interested in “accurate” results – they are bankrolled in order to inject memes unfavorable to their opponents into the public space (‘”push-polling”) or to skew the outcome in favor of their chosen catspaws and against their opponents (by manipulating those factors already mentioned while hiding the manipulations).

    The only political polls that deserve to be taken seriously are those conducted by campaign organizations. And only half (at best) of them – the ones designed to ferret out the state of the candidacy in an upcoming election. (The others are used to test messaging options in various sections of the electorate and/or push-poll,) And you and I will never see those results, much less the assumptions and finagling that went into getting them.***

    Tl;dr: All polling results available to the public are untrustworthy because they are biased to support the agenda of whoever paid for them.

    ** Don’t get me started on the borderline criminal misuse of the concept of “statistical significance” by nearly everyone, including statisticians who goddamnwell ought to know better…

    *** Weirdly enough, one of the few pollsters I’d trust is Rasmussen – a known GOP shill – whose between-elections business in market research depends on having solid results. But only in the last week or so before the election, when the results have to reproduce what eventually happens at the polls or else his future business will suffer. Farther out from the election, his reported results reliably support and amplify whatever is favorable to the Rethuglican cause..​​

  166. 166.

    Ruckus

    September 11, 2023 at 12:02 pm

    @Betty:

    Why are they so desperate to take down the guy who is doing so much so well?

    Your last 5 words answered your own question. President Joe Biden is getting on the business he gets paid to do – be an actual president of this country. He’s not rending garments, or having hissy fits, or trying to steal every thing, or screw at least half the population of the country that he works for. President Biden is doing what conservatives have zero idea how to do, be human, do the work, don’t act like a show off 4 yr old snot, respect all of the citizens he works for – if they will let him, uses the taxes we ALL pay to actually help ALL the people. I can go on. Joe Biden is a real, adult, reasonable human being who gets the concept of ALL. This concept is so foreign to conservatives, whose concept of government is to win – not govern, hate – not work for, find watches that run backasswards because they think life must have been better when anyone they don’t like – for any reason – was locked up/sold for slavery/abused/etc. They Do Not Want a government that recognizes ALL humans as exactly that. They do not want a government that taxes the wealthy and pays the poor for food, they want a government that gives them every advantage – including all things shady and wrong – so they can be special – because otherwise they aren’t even close. And they shouldn’t be, because they’ve done, thought, spoken enough to prove that they aren’t worthy of anything, certainly not anything that puts them higher up any food chain.

  167. 167.

    Kelly

    September 11, 2023 at 12:07 pm

    @piratedan: ;-) nice

  168. 168.

    wjca

    September 11, 2023 at 12:08 pm

    @Scout211: There seems to be lots of opinions here about our upcoming Senate primary and general election here in California.

    Local reporting  is emphasizing the Democrats in disarray part of the story.

    Democrats in disarray is particularly stupid since a) it’s better than even money that we will come out of our top-two primary with 2 Democrats in the general election.  And b) if a Republican does slip thru (there’s zero chance 2 will), whoever the Democrat is will win easily.

    What “disarray” amounts to is “there’s been no smoke-filled-room decision on who will be the next (necessarily Democratic) Senator.”

  169. 169.

    Scout211

    September 11, 2023 at 12:11 pm

    @Ken:  LOL

    Political reporting in California must be a boring  job in the past few years.  The poor things rarely have anything exciting to report on.  I feel for them. (Not!)

  170. 170.

    Miss Bianca

    September 11, 2023 at 12:12 pm

    @Alison Rose: Ah, ok.

  171. 171.

    Matt McIrvin

    September 11, 2023 at 12:12 pm

    @Betty: Boot is a never-Trumper neoconservative– these people are always going to think we’re doing opposition to Trump wrong and they should be in charge.

  172. 172.

    wjca

    September 11, 2023 at 12:15 pm

    @Miss Bianca:  I’m just wondering why the hell he made that pledge in the first place. For an interim position, that is.

    Because Newsom is basically an empty suit with barely enough smarts to pound sand.  Witness some of his dumb stunts during the covid lockdown.

  173. 173.

    Paul in KY

    September 11, 2023 at 12:16 pm

    @Marmot: I guess the post-Bolshevik takeover resistance that we engaged in/helped back in 1918 – 1920 time period.

  174. 174.

    NotMax

    September 11, 2023 at 12:16 pm

    @Scout211

    Prototypical political reporter to California (in best D. Vader intonation):

    “I find your lack of diners … disturbing.”
    //

  175. 175.

    smith

    September 11, 2023 at 12:17 pm

    @NotMax: Or just copy the link into this site. Or this one.

  176. 176.

    Miss Bianca

    September 11, 2023 at 12:17 pm

    @Ruckus: Yep, I would say that sums up the situation quite nicely.

  177. 177.

    rikyrah

    September 11, 2023 at 12:18 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

     

    To last thread’s discussion on horseshoe leftists, I should say I also seem to have a lot of liberal online friends who are pissed off at Biden for not being way more hardline on COVID than he is– they basically want us to still be in lockdown or at least have stringent mask and vaccine mandates. And the fact that the people around them aren’t behaving like the pandemic is still on just drives them around the bend, and they blame Democrats for being wimps about it.

     

    Wimps?

    Are you kidding me?

    This Administration got tests and vaccines on almost every other corner in this country.

    To pretend otherwise is wrong. And, to pretend that the GOP wasn’t batshyt insane….

  178. 178.

    Baud

    September 11, 2023 at 12:19 pm

    @Paul in KY:

    Imperialism seems to have lost its original meaning of being associated with colonialism and now is used for any old intervention by Western countries in other people’s affairs.

  179. 179.

    eversor

    September 11, 2023 at 12:20 pm

    @catclub:

    There are people here, on this very forum, who will refuse to blame Christianity for the actions of Barr, Alito, and more.  Not blaming the GOP is the same stunt act.  But here only Christianity is off bounds.

    So everyone here who does not condemn Christianity but screams about the refusal to condem the GOP or conservatives is giant ass hypocrite of the highest order and guilty of the exact crime they say the media is commiting!

    You don’t get to select your outrage on “this ideology is OK to attack, but this one is not because some of us will get offended”.  Either ideologies can be damned or they cannot.  So pick!

  180. 180.

    Old School

    September 11, 2023 at 12:23 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Cenk Uygur (@cenkuygur) posted at 0:29 AM on Mon, Sep 11, 2023:
    Has Biden proposed a single policy for his next term? If he’s barely going to try, maybe he should just get out of the race. #DropOut

    I suspect if Biden made a policy proposal for his second term, Uygur would be asking, “Why doesn’t he just do it now?”

  181. 181.

    Paul in KY

    September 11, 2023 at 12:25 pm

    @Alison Rose: Gov. Newsom seems to indicate he will appoint a black female if Sen. Feinstein resigns. It just won’t be Rep. Lee.

  182. 182.

    narya

    September 11, 2023 at 12:25 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo:The only political polls that deserve to be taken seriously are those conducted by campaign organizations. And only half (at best) of them – the ones designed to ferret out the state of the candidacy in an upcoming election.

    That was what I was getting from the Pod Save America guys–that Biden’s internal polling was telling him whom he wasn’t reaching yet. They were also discussing two recent Biden ads as a response to the need to reach folks–the “Joe visited Ukraine” ad and . . . another one. They also said “show, don’t tell,” again partly in response to their own research into who they needed to reach.

    Honestly part of the reason I don’t much trust polls is for exactly the reasons you mention–and I know that I am so far removed from the general electorate as to make my own thoughts pretty useless.

  183. 183.

    Old School

    September 11, 2023 at 12:26 pm

    @eversor: Do you check under your bed at night for Christians?

  184. 184.

    Alison Rose

    September 11, 2023 at 12:28 pm

    @wjca: Calling him stupid is a crummy attack, especially since it’s extremely untrue.

  185. 185.

    Baud

    September 11, 2023 at 12:28 pm

    @Paul in KY:

    It could be if she drops out.   I suspect Feinstein will survive until the election so it’s all moot anyway.

  186. 186.

    eversor

    September 11, 2023 at 12:28 pm

    @Ruckus:

    You are deadly wrong on one part here.  They are cooking up a tax plan.  One that taxes the single, the out of wedlock, the no natural children and strips them of their rights to funnel money to traditional Christian style families with Christs demanded gender roles.  They are serious about this.  Again, it’s Christianity and you can refuse to see it all you want but it’s coming for you.

    So are you anti Christian or anti human?  Or are you a close your eyes and scream lalalalalala at the top of your lungs while that ideology comes for you?

  187. 187.

    Jeffro

    September 11, 2023 at 12:28 pm

    @p.a.: You know when I say “Dukes”, I’m talking about JMU, right?

  188. 188.

    Alison Rose

    September 11, 2023 at 12:29 pm

    @Paul in KY: Yeah, that’s what he said, that he would appoint a Black woman. But she’s apparently mad that 1) it would only be a “caretaker” role, even though that’s what it would be no matter who the person was, and 2) that he won’t appoint her, even though doing so would be massively unfair and would amount to basically an endorsement of her candidacy.

  189. 189.

    Paul in KY

    September 11, 2023 at 12:29 pm

    @Baud: I guess so :-)

  190. 190.

    Michael Bersin

    September 11, 2023 at 12:29 pm

    Old media. Pituuh.

    Kansas City, September 8, 2016:

    Media narrative? What media narrative?

    The still and video cameras turned as if choreographed to photograph the hall partition closing behind the main press riser. I kid you not.

  191. 191.

    NotMax

    September 11, 2023 at 12:29 pm

    @smith

    As someone who routinely surfs the web with javascipt disabled, I don’t even think twice about it. Something on the order of 95% of the sites I do tend to visit work just fine without it being enabled. As always, YMMV.

    For Firefox, simple add-on allows for easy as pie click on/click off feature

  192. 192.

    Jeffro

    September 11, 2023 at 12:32 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: I’ll have to take your word for that!  I’ve spent 30 years of my life in Virginia and five in South Carolina, but managed to mostly skip right over NC.

    You know when I say “Dukes” I’m talking about JMU, right?  Not Duke University?

  193. 193.

    Paul in KY

    September 11, 2023 at 12:32 pm

    @eversor: I think you should quote mark ‘Christianity’ as so in your diatribes. Alito’s ‘Christianity’ has about as much similarity to what Jesus preached as Stalinism as ‘Communism’ had to do with the version espoused by Karl Marx.

  194. 194.

    p.a.

    September 11, 2023 at 12:33 pm

    @Jeffro: Obviously not!

  195. 195.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 12:34 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo: I think OH Predictives does pretty well with it’s Arizona polling. They describe themselves as nonpartisan, and do a lot of non-political polling as a market research and data analysis outfit. Their Arizona polling last year seemed to hold up well.

    I liked OH Predictive because they did a new poll from time to time. That showed month over month trend using the same polling model, which may be more significant than the individual numbers.

  196. 196.

    Paul in KY

    September 11, 2023 at 12:34 pm

    @narya: Any poll that has less than 2,000 participants is basically worthless (IMO) as the +/- is too big to really make meaningful analysis.

  197. 197.

    Ruckus

    September 11, 2023 at 12:34 pm

    @wjca:

    Because Newsom is basically an empty suit with barely enough smarts to pound sand.  Witness some of his dumb stunts during the covid lockdown.

    I see why you might say that and to some degree I agree. The thing is, CA is almost it’s own country. The population of CA is very close to 40 million. LA county has a larger population than 40 states.

    And Newsom is not the best governor we’ve ever had, but he isn’t the worst either. I won’t bother to name names. He ran, he won, he’s governor. I will ask – do you want the job? I’d bet that vision has never crossed your mind, and apologize if I’m wrong. It cannot be an easy job, and he does OK. Not great, but OK. I’ve seen worse.

  198. 198.

    Matt McIrvin

    September 11, 2023 at 12:35 pm

    @Geminid: I’m reluctant to advise liberals of wanting “government compulsion for its own sake” since this seems to be the right’s go-to accusation about any regulation whatsoever. I think they do imagine that politicians have more power than they do and that any lack of influence comes from lack of will.

  199. 199.

    Scout211

    September 11, 2023 at 12:36 pm

    @Paul in KY: Gov. Newsom seems to indicate he will appoint a black female if Sen. Feinstein resigns. It just won’t be Rep. Lee.

    That’s how I read it.

    But that’s why Barbara Lee’s statement seems unwise.  Is she saying any Black female interim appointment not named Barbara Lee would be less than qualified?  That is what it sounds like to me.  I hope she walks that back or at least clarifies it.

    At least publicly, he never offered a name to his pledge to appoint a Black female.  Was there a back room promise that the public isn’t aware of?  It’s just confusing

  200. 200.

    Paul in KY

    September 11, 2023 at 12:37 pm

    @Alison Rose: It would certainly be putting your thumb on the scale to appoint one of the 3 going for it.

    She should be happy I’m not CA gov, as I would appoint Rep. Porter!

  201. 201.

    wjca

    September 11, 2023 at 12:37 pm

    @Paul in KY: Gov. Newsom seems to indicate he will appoint a black female if Sen. Feinstein resigns. It just won’t be Rep. Lee.

    Basically, Lee is peeved because, if Newsom would appoint her to the interim position, she would be pretty much a lock to win the job permanently.  Without that leg up, she’s looking at a much harder hill to climb.

    EDT In other words, what Alison said at #188

  202. 202.

    No One You Know

    September 11, 2023 at 12:38 pm

    @Kristine: Thank you! I so need those gift links to (try to) keep up.

  203. 203.

    Timill

    September 11, 2023 at 12:38 pm

    @Alison Rose: Guess how many Black women there are in the “three main candidates”?

  204. 204.

    smith

    September 11, 2023 at 12:38 pm

    @NotMax: There must be a half-dozen easy ways to bypass paywalls. The fact that people decline to use them makes me think that for some it’s a matter of principle not to, in which case I won’t argue. People should do what they are comfortable doing.

  205. 205.

    Paul in KY

    September 11, 2023 at 12:39 pm

    @Scout211: I am sure that California has at least 300 or more black females who would do a fine job as senator.

  206. 206.

    wjca

    September 11, 2023 at 12:40 pm

    @Alison Rose: Calling him stupid is a crummy attack, especially since it’s extremely untrue.

    Having been watching him since he was Mayor of San Francisco, I think it’s an assessment with some basis. YMMV, of course.

  207. 207.

    Kristine

    September 11, 2023 at 12:40 pm

    @No One You Know: I keep forgetting I have them.

  208. 208.

    Marmot

    September 11, 2023 at 12:41 pm

    @Paul in KY: Yeah, I guess that must be it. Dog knows the Soviets and tankies loved to recount and wallow in the horrors of the White armies and whatever the British were doing.

    Reminds me of my childhood (mainline Protestant) church and how very much they talked about persecution at the hands of the Roman Empire.

  209. 209.

    Kristine

    September 11, 2023 at 12:43 pm

    @Old School: Biden has made second term proposals. Reproductive rights/abortion. Continued work on climate change and green manufacturing.

    Not that it matters. Cenk et al will just keep moving the goalposts.

  210. 210.

    Citizen Alan

    September 11, 2023 at 12:45 pm

    @Paul in KY: He won’t. He uses “Christianity” the same way MAGAs conflate every single Democrat with hard-core Marxism. Because Democrats won’t commit to a war of annihilation against every form of Socialism policy, up to and including Social Security, MAGAs hold us all equally responsible for Stalin’s gulags. Similarly, because the Unitarians and the Episcopalians have not gone to bloody war against the Prosperity Gospel Evangelicals, everyone who calls themselves Christian should be lumped in with the “God Hates Fags” crowd.

  211. 211.

    wjca

    September 11, 2023 at 12:46 pm

    @Ruckus: Newsom is not the best governor we’ve ever had, but he isn’t the worst either.

    Absolutely agree that he’s not the worst.  Not even 2nd worst.  Although I have to say that, even just in my lifetime, that’s a pretty low bar.

    EDT To your question, I haven’t given a lot of thought to doing the job of governor.  Primarily because I am aware that I would be totally incompetent at a) fundraising and b) campaigning.  And those are prerequisites for ever getting there.

  212. 212.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 12:48 pm

     

     

    @wjca: My impression is that an appointment of Barbara Lee to the potentially vacant seat would at best bring her to parity with Adam Schiff and Katie Porter. She’consistently lags them in polling, and lacks their national fan base and the money that brings to their campaigns

    But it won’t happen now, even if Feinstein retires early, which I think will happen at some point.

  213. 213.

    Marmot

    September 11, 2023 at 12:51 pm

    @Baud: Also this.

    “Imperialism” has lost all meaning.

    Lately the hotness is words ending in “-ivity” or “-ality” or psychology-related terms. They start with carefully defined meanings within a specific area of study, then get bled dry by popular use, out of context. Was it always this way?

  214. 214.

    Alison Rose

    September 11, 2023 at 12:51 pm

    @wjca: I’ve also watched him since then, and in fact lived in the City when he was mayor. He is and always has been far more intelligent than anyone gives him credit for. He knows more about this state, its history and politics and so on, than you or I ever will. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of names and dates and statistics and facts, because he has to memorize everything, since other people have called him dumb because of his dyslexia. So when you insult his intelligence and just assume that he’s nothing more than a handsome male bimbo, just remember that you’re using the same attack as a bunch of ableist assholes.

  215. 215.

    Ken

    September 11, 2023 at 12:52 pm

    @Kristine: “Why hasn’t Biden made any policy proposals for his third term? Trump has!”

  216. 216.

    AxelFoley

    September 11, 2023 at 12:54 pm

    @rikyrah:

     @AxelFoley:

    Hey Axel 👋🏾

    S’up, Queen? 👋🏾

  217. 217.

    Another Scott

    September 11, 2023 at 12:54 pm

    @frosty: Understanding that anecdotes are not data, I saw and passed along this story a couple of days ago.

    (It’s apparently about Australia, but I cannot imagine that the USA is immune from those pressures.)

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  218. 218.

    UncleEbeneezer

    September 11, 2023 at 12:54 pm

    @Alison Rose: As a CA voter who has been waiting forever for DiFi to exit the Senate, I feel like we should get some say in who our Senator is for the longer term.  I’d be perfectly fine with Lee, Schiff or Porter, honestly.  I don’t think letting the voters decide, is crazy talk.  I also didn’t think the appointment of Padilla was outrageous in any way.  Our state is almost 40% Latinx/Hispanic (the largest and fastest-growing, racial/ethnic group in the state and the second largest voting block, after White, for the Dem Party) and yet had never had someone from that Community serve as Senator.  I get the arguments for promoting Black Women and support them generally (and I supported appointing Lee in 2020 too, in order to keep the seat for another Black Woman), but CA is not GA and I do think Latinx/Hispanic voters had a rightful claim to some representation in the Senate after so many years.

  219. 219.

    No One You Know

    September 11, 2023 at 12:55 pm

    @Percysowner: I just bought an Atlantic subscription. Now I regret it. Maybe I’ll cancel it. OTOH, sometimes it’s good to know what the conservatives are deeming important. Grr.

  220. 220.

    Alison Rose

    September 11, 2023 at 12:55 pm

    @Geminid: But it’s not the governor’s job to “bring her to parity”. In fact, that should be the absolute last thing the governor even thinks about trying to do.

    Now, I won’t deny that Lee polling well behind Schiff and Porter is due at least in part to racism. I don’t doubt that’s a factor and it’s fucked up. But also, we’ve (BJ and also the wider ‘we’) been having conversations about age in politics. Lee will be 78 by the election. Maybe some voters would rather elect someone who is more likely to be able to serve more than two terms. (Porter will be 50, close to 51, by the election; Schiff will be 64.)

  221. 221.

    wjca

    September 11, 2023 at 12:57 pm

    @Alison Rose: just remember that you’re using the same attack as a bunch of ableist assholes.

    And some pretty reactionary never-Trumpers attack him as a threat to democracy.  Does that mean no progressive should attack him for the same reason, simply because they did?

  222. 222.

    eversor

    September 11, 2023 at 12:58 pm

    @Old School:

    I don’t associate with them anymore on a personal level.  I wouldn’t let one into my home.  I wouldn’t hire one.  I wouldn’t piss on one if they were on fire.  I won’t finally put the last ring on my fiance till she leaves the Church.  She’s getting there, her nieces also got molested.  That might be her breaking point but they don’t have the guts to tell her, yet.  They told me as they realized they could.

    I have the same wrath for Republicans, Libertarians, and Conservatives but all those turn out to be… Christian anyways so same difference as Christianity they all share. (you won’t give it to them but you’ll throw a fit over good Republicans)

    I can’t be shamed for this.  I know what that ideology actually is and I went to school to study my enemy.  I fought their wars.  They raped me and my siblings as children and my parents turned a blind eye to get into polite society.  My nieces to be also suffered.  I still attend a church just to pick up information as to what they are doing.   Shit I worked for the Catholic Church just to get a better angle on it for a few months and I know a couple priests that I have evidence enough to wreck.  As a molested child I went to church with the North family (yeah Ollie) and their kids sick matching dresses.

    I have no illusions about the ideology, the people, the costs, and what is going on.  Unlike you I can’t afford them.  That ended decades ago.  I also now have the power to act.

    There’s a certain point in life where you gain enough money and access those issues cease to matter.  At least to the extent they do to most.

    I don’t need to hear your “you’re being a bigot against the bigots” lecture take that shit to Ben Shapiro.  And if you want to stand up for protecting my abusers for my abuse because some were good people you can shove that one.  Like it or not the anti Christian crowd were all raised Christian!

  223. 223.

    Alison Rose

    September 11, 2023 at 12:58 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer: Yeah, I will say, I understood the disappointment to a degree, but it felt a little shitty for people to dismiss the importance of CA finally having its first Hispanic Senator.

  224. 224.

    lowtechcyclist

    September 11, 2023 at 12:59 pm

    @narya:

    What I also want to see (because I’m a dreamer like that) is more stations across the country, and more high-speed rail outside the northeast corridor. I realize those are much bigger asks, but a person can dream.

    I’d really like to see a genuine test of high-speed rail somewhere in the U.S.  My hypothetical test line would be from Wichita to Denver.  They’re 7 hours apart by car, and about 520 miles by road.  It’s very empty country between the two cities, so obtaining rights-of-way wouldn’t be hard.  A more or less straight line route would be under 500 miles, and a 200 mph train could do it in a bit over 2.5 hours.

    So the technical problems with HSR could be dealt with on a route that few people are currently relying on, and it would be interesting to see the effects on the two cities (Wichita especially) due to suddenly being a lot closer to each other than they had been.

  225. 225.

    Ruckus

    September 11, 2023 at 1:00 pm

    @narya:

    I tutored statistics in college (nearly a lifetime ago…) and saw a lot of people actually didn’t get the basic concepts of statistics – which is to put things in a mathematical perspective that has rules about how you signify things and can make qualified assumptions on say, how many people will buy oversized 4 wheel drive pickups to drive to work. Because in a society as big as ours many things have to have a concept of the past/present/future to see a lot of things and ways to look at those numbers that gives room for differences and making things work. One of those things might be looking at age and seeing, say how many 80 yr olds could do a complicated job and do it well and actually want to. The number is smallish but not all that small considering that the last 50-60 yrs has made strides in most things humans do, one of which is live longer because of food, reasonably secure homes, medicine and better services but mostly knowledge and the ability to have some. I’ve told the story of one woman who lives in my complex who is 97 yrs old. Her body is somewhat showing her age but her mind is not. And I know because I had a long discussion with her last week. Not many of us even get there but more and more are, if for no other reason than there are more of us. Joe Biden may be somewhat of an exception but he’s not as much of one as it used to be, say when he or I were born.

  226. 226.

    Alison Rose

    September 11, 2023 at 1:01 pm

    @wjca: Well, calling TIFG a threat to democracy is an accurate claim. He himself has made it abundantly clear that if he gets another term, he and his people will tear down every bit of governance they can.

    Calling someone stupid based on nothing but a drive-by assessment of whatever is not a factual claim. It’s a judgment often based in misinformation and mischaracterization with zero proof to support it.

  227. 227.

    AWOL

    September 11, 2023 at 1:02 pm

    @eversor: I condemn Christianity, Jainism, Judaism, EST, Rolfing, Hinduism, Islam, Cats Licking Their Assholes, Mormonism, Buddhism, Zen, Taoism, Scientology, Moonies, Hare Krishna, Enemaism, and Dullish Idiots Who Make the Same Insipid Point Constantly Instead of Dealing With The Psychoses Their Father Crippled Them With.

  228. 228.

    UncleEbeneezer

    September 11, 2023 at 1:02 pm

    @wjca: Yes.  And I’m guessing that if Lee was way ahead in the polls, Newsom would appoint her.  But she’s not.  She’s trailing Porter and Schiff by a pretty big margin and appointing her would be effectively moving her to the front of the line, against the current consensus of CA voters.  This isn’t like picking Biden picking a VP to work with for 4-8 years.  This is much different.

  229. 229.

    cain

    September 11, 2023 at 1:04 pm

    Salut to the first responders and those who died 22 years ago on this day.

  230. 230.

    rikyrah

    September 11, 2023 at 1:04 pm

    They followed the money for Brie-Brie and found her right-wing donors.

     

    Ragnarok Lobster (@eclecticbrotha) posted at 10:52 PM on Sat, Sep 09, 2023:
    A reminder of who really bankrolls the anti-democratic fckery of Gums and Roses
    (https://x.com/eclecticbrotha/status/1700718963204739276?t=mTJE6oBBbOvW8lQgX_Y_bg&s=03)

  231. 231.

    cain

    September 11, 2023 at 1:04 pm

    @AWOL: I’m sorry where the fuck do you get off about cats licking their assholes? You’ve crossed a line.

  232. 232.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 1:04 pm

    @Alison Rose: I did not say that was Newsome’s job. I was disagreeing with the assertion that appointing Barbara Lee would  give her a lock on the job.

    My guess is that a Senator Lee might edge out Porter in the jungle primary, but then Schiff would beat her in November. That’s when, like it or not, Republicans and Independents will have their say.

  233. 233.

    Old School

    September 11, 2023 at 1:05 pm

    @eversor:

    I’m sorry that happened to you.  However, if you think molestation will end if Christianity disappears, I’m pretty sure you will be disappointed.

    I still attend a church just to pick up information as to what they are doing.

    Did not see that one coming.

  234. 234.

    cain

    September 11, 2023 at 1:06 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: also good jobs for everyone along that line. Good for Kansas and for Colorado.

  235. 235.

    AWOL

    September 11, 2023 at 1:07 pm

    @cain: It was in one of his epic rants.

    For the record, I’m personally fine with my cats licking their assholes.

  236. 236.

    Paul in KY

    September 11, 2023 at 1:08 pm

    @Citizen Alan: I guess that makes it easier for him to understand…

  237. 237.

    cain

    September 11, 2023 at 1:08 pm

    @AxelFoley: I got the damn Axel F song in my head now.

  238. 238.

    UncleEbeneezer

    September 11, 2023 at 1:09 pm

    @Alison Rose: This is the challenge of our side being the one that actually cares about marginalized groups and having almost too many great candidates.  I haven’t been at all disappointed by Padilla, so far.

  239. 239.

    sab

    September 11, 2023 at 1:12 pm

    @AWOL: My cats expect our dog to lick their assholes, like the last dog did. So far she’s not interested.

  240. 240.

    cain

    September 11, 2023 at 1:13 pm

    @rikyrah: He’s been nothing but whiner since the Obama days. It’s all bout action, action, action! Doesn’t give a shit about the long term or consequences – he’s a terrible person.

  241. 241.

    eversor

    September 11, 2023 at 1:14 pm

    @Old School:

    I was intel.  I scout.

  242. 242.

    Paul in KY

    September 11, 2023 at 1:15 pm

    @cain: Heroes every one!

  243. 243.

    Paul in KY

    September 11, 2023 at 1:16 pm

    @Old School: I wonder what kind of disguise is worn?

    A gillie suit would probably draw too much attention.

  244. 244.

    cain

    September 11, 2023 at 1:17 pm

    @Old School: molestation is a part and parcel of the human race – and doesn’t have a religion.

    But when you are traumatized and see others traumatized from the same organization – I can get where you might get hyperfocused on a single entity. Christianity is adhered by some of the most powerful people on the planet.

  245. 245.

    wjca

    September 11, 2023 at 1:23 pm

    @cain: also good jobs for everyone along that line. Good for Kansas and for Colorado.

    I can see the possibility for the latter.  But how do jobs aling the line happen?  I thought part of achieving high speed was minimizing the number of stops.  And if the HSR doesn’t stop in your little town, how does it help?

  246. 246.

    Soprano2

    September 11, 2023 at 1:41 pm

    @Manyakitty: Sorry, I forget. Here’s one if you’re still here. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1700710408347058226.html

  247. 247.

    Ruckus

    September 11, 2023 at 1:45 pm

    @AWOL:

    Could have been mother who crippled them, or both of them……

    Just saying, some humans should never be parents…..

  248. 248.

    frosty

    September 11, 2023 at 2:08 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer:  The problem with Sling is the same as Fubo, other streamers, and cable: they carry Fox News. We cut the cord because we didn’t want to give them any more revenue. Thanks for the other suggestions though! We might have ESPN through something else we’re paying for.

  249. 249.

    AWOL

    September 11, 2023 at 2:25 pm

    @Ruckus: The person in question once stated that father was in a nazi concentration camp, which is a fairly decent reason to loathe Christianity, but I digress. As for his/her/they’s Baba, I’m only going with what I can see from Plato’s Cave . . .

  250. 250.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 2:26 pm

    @wjca: Seems to me that you would need a large metropolis on the other end of that line from Denver. Chicago would be ideal. Once you got from Chicago to St. Louis you might be able to run it right down the center of I-70. But here again, trains running at Amtrak’s current top speed of 150mph might be sufficient for the purpose.

    High speed rail is first on a lot of people’s lists for transportation reform. It would be high on mine if we had a a couple trillion dollars to plunk down on transportation investment. But we don’t, so high speed rail is down my list of funding targets, behind an expanded Amtrak service map  where trains would only run 150 or 120mph, better commuter rail, and more and better bus service both local and intercity.

    We already have high speed passenger planes, and they can be required to run on carbon neutral fuel. My understanding is that House Democrats in the last Congress considered a mandate for carbon-neutral air transport fuel that would have been phased in, but set it aside for now. That’s gonna come later this decade though, if Democrats can retake the House and hang on to the Senate and White House.

  251. 251.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 2:34 pm

    @AWOL: I think he also said that when his father got to this country and started a family, he joined a Christian church hoping to shield his children from the danger he had faced.

  252. 252.

    frosty

    September 11, 2023 at 2:52 pm

    @cain: ​Also a salute to the people of Chile, whose legally elected government was overthrown by a right-wing coup 50 years ago today, and who lived and died under that ruler for 17 years.​

  253. 253.

    Jay

    September 11, 2023 at 2:54 pm

    @wjca:

    HSR requires a lot of daily inspections and maintenance.

    That requires crews “on the ground”, each responsible for a stretch of track. They can’t commute in.

    Both the CN and CP railroads have service crews scattered along the rail lines, in little towns that often only survive, because the rail crew lives there.

  254. 254.

    Uncle Cosmo

    September 11, 2023 at 2:55 pm

    @Geminid: Not familiar with OH Predictives so no comment for the time being. I’d be dee-lighted to find an organization out there doing things properly and releasing results of value to the public.

    Survey research does not come cheap. The main expense (IIRC) has always been the folks who do the calling and administer the survey – you can’t just pull in anyone off the street, they have to be trained fairly rigorously to do things properly – and they have to be checked up on to make sure they’re doing things properly – otherwise they contaminate the results, which might end up worse than useless.

    When I did this one significant poll back in the mid-1970s I managed to draft the survey, print it up, and select the sample (phone numbers with specific prefixes to limit them to our region of interest – sell foehns, whut dat?) on a shoestring. Then I had 8-10 members of our brand-new Democratic political club who volunteered to do the calling gratis – and the toughest part was hammering into these folks, who were my friends (and comrades-in-arms toughened during the McGovern debacle that led to the formation of the club), that they were NOT to argue or engage in discussions with the respondents or to in any way shape manner or form GO OFF SCRIPT. They took my lemon-harangue in good spirits and did a helluva fine job.

  255. 255.

    Uncle Cosmo

    September 11, 2023 at 3:18 pm

    @Paul in KY: ​Any poll that has less than 2,000 participants is basically worthless (IMO) as the +/- is too big to really make meaningful analysis.

    For a pure horserace poll – who’s in front and by how much – I tend to agree. But there are other results that can be teased from a smaller sample in the demographic crosstabs that can provide valuable insights even if the margin of error is so high it precludes tests of “statistical significance” (which IMHO is a VASTLY overrated concept). For instance, suppose the candidate is polling much worse than anticipated with AA women – the campaign might need to revise its handouts and press releases to highlight what the candidate has done (or is promising to do) with respect to what those voters want.

    In the case of that small-sample mid-70s poll we were testing whether there was any desire for new progressive candidates to challenge the Democratic party establishment. And in our blue-collar inner suburb, we found a surprisingly high percentage of respondents were interested. That same survey instrument was edited for applicability and taken a few days later in a demographically very different area on the other side of the metropolitan area, and the results were roughly the same as ours. Base on those results, a progressive candidate who til then had no intention of running filed for an important office and won both the primary and general elections. (Subsequent events were not so happy – Sinema isn’t the first pol to completely change her stripes once elected…)

  256. 256.

    Geminid

    September 11, 2023 at 3:22 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo: You might find OH Predictives an interesting outfit to follow. The Arizona Senate race itself is worth looking at in detail, as well as the course of the Presidential race in that state. Republicans can ill afford to lose Arizona, and that may be happening now. Next year’s election will tell us a lot.

  257. 257.

    Paul in KY

    September 11, 2023 at 3:23 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo: That was what I learned in a Political Sci, polling/statistics course back at UK in 1979, I think.

  258. 258.

    Uncle Cosmo

    September 11, 2023 at 3:36 pm

    @cain: ​Hey, combine an electrified HSR line with a pilot HVDC transmission line linking two of the top 10 states in wind power.

  259. 259.

    Uncle Cosmo

    September 11, 2023 at 4:15 pm

    @Paul in KY: Roughly the same time I was getting my Bastard’s in applied math with concentration in statistics.​

    The problem I have with most sadisticians (;^p) is their fetishization (izzatawoid?) of “statistical significance” as the only appropriate endpoint of research. Down in the footnotes there is (or should always be) a caution to the effect that a whole passle of assumptions have to be satisfied for the significance computations to hold up – and they almost never are.

    One important factor (pardon the bad statistical pun) is whether the researcher has enough of an idea of what sort of variables in fact determine the results s/he is testing to take that as “given” – or whether s/he has the nerve to evaluate that as part of the analysis. There is a classic illustration of the dangers in a paper from >50 years ago, where a hapless statistician (or more likely an intern with a stat package) attempts to predict the weights of rectangular prisms of various sizes, each made up of a single substance, by applying factor analysis to a linear combination of a series of measurements – length, width, height, material, electrical conductivity, albedo, yada yada yada. The poor barstid keeps adding more predictor variables and the analysis gets worse and worse, when the closed-form answer is staring him/her in the face – but s/he’ll never find it because the factor analysis is limited to linear combinations of the variables when the weights are perfectly correlated with the substance and the product of the length and width and height, IOW the volume. I remember reading the paper in grad school (here is a PDF for anyone sufficiently nerdy to be interested) – it was ROTFLMAO material for the whole class.

  260. 260.

    lowtechcyclist

    September 11, 2023 at 4:37 pm

    @eversor:

    There are people here, on this very forum, who will refuse to blame Christianity for the actions of Barr, Alito, and more.  Not blaming the GOP is the same stunt act.  But here only Christianity is off bounds.

    Christianity isn’t out of bounds here.  Speaking as a Christian, please go ahead and point it out with appropriate wrath when people and organizations who identify as Christian do horrible things while wrapping themselves in the name of Christ.  I do it quite frequently, and welcome the company.

    What bothers some people here is your inevitable and unsupported jump from the (all too many) instances of persons calling themselves Christians doing horrible things, to the claim that Christianity is the cause of them doing horrible things, and therefore Christianity needs to be eradicated.

    Eradicating Christianity wouldn’t do any good – that experiment has already been run.  The Soviet Union outlawed Christianity for most of a century. The People’s Republic of China did the same for decades.  Were they any less evil as institutions? Were their people any more moral?  Did it turn either nation into a workers’ paradise?

    People are what they are.  Christianity may be the label that some of them put on their tribalism, but that’s really what’s going on here.  My Tribe (the good guys) versus The Other (the bad guys, all too often regarded as less than human).  And unfortunately, tribalism seems to be endemic in our species.

    But do what you must, I guess, and people will pie you or not pie you.  I haven’t and won’t: sometimes you have worthwhile contributions to our discussions, and I’m not going to throw the baby out with the bath-water. And for another, I’m a Christian not because of upbringing, but because of a powerful and ongoing religious experience.  When the love of a divine being is being poured out on you daily, it’s impossible to feel like anyone’s attacking your faith: how can anyone threaten or even interrupt this unless I let them? Stuff like the things you say are like water off a duck’s back. Say them all you want, as far as I’m concerned.  Besides, they get under Omnes’ skin, so that’s worth something. ;-)

  261. 261.

    Geoduck

    September 11, 2023 at 5:48 pm

    @Marmot: Not excusing in any what way Russia has done, but there were American troops on Russian soil during the 1918 revolution. We Yanks have forgotten all about it, but I bet the Russians haven’t.

  262. 262.

    Paul in KY

    September 12, 2023 at 8:34 am

    @Uncle Cosmo: I was in Poli Sci, man :-) I salute your greater knowledge and schooling in statistics. It is a very interesting subject.

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