Jim Jordan may come to rue the day that he decided to run for speaker. Just as I hope that in his heart of hearts (what heart!) Trump knows that he brought all this on himself with his petty little plan to run for President. Hoping for the same for Jim Jordon. Soon!
NEW: Four former OSU wrestlers are speaking out against Jim Jordan’s bid for Speaker of the House. “Do you really want a guy in that job who chose not to stand up for his guys?” https://t.co/jnwx4gSXxp
— Mueller, She Wrote 🇺🇦 🇮🇱 (@MuellerSheWrote) October 11, 2023
⭐️
Four Ohio State wrestlers are speaking out against Jim Jordan as Speaker of the House.
“Do you really want a guy in that job who chose not to stand up for his guys?” said one former wrestler who attended OSU when Jordan was assistant coach.
⭐️
Some excerpts from the article:
“Do you really want a guy in that job who chose not to stand up for his guys?” said former OSU wrestler Mike Schyck, one of the hundreds of former athletes and students who say they were sexually abused by school doctor Richard Strauss and have sued the university. “Is that the kind of character trait you want for a House speaker?”
The wrestlers’ decisions to weigh in adds a new dimension to the speaker race, bringing in a controversial part of Jordan’s past that continues to hang over the Ohio Republican and staunch ally of former President Donald Trump.
So far, the OSU affair hasn’t received much focus — one GOP congresswoman recently said she wasn’t even aware of the allegations — but it could continue to follow Jordan. Even if he becomes speaker, there’s a chance he could be deposed in one of the lawsuits.
…
Dunyasha Yetts, another former OSU wrestler who has publicly and repeatedly accused Jordan of lying about not knowing what Strauss was doing to the athletes, said the congressman’s “hypocrisy is unbelievable.”
“He doesn’t deserve to be House speaker,” Yetts said. “He still has to answer for what happened to us.”
Rocky Ratliff, a former OSU wrestler and alleged Strauss victim who is also a lawyer representing some of the plaintiffs suing the school, said Jordan “abandoned his former wrestlers in the Ohio State sexual abuse scandal and cover-up.”
…
“My problem with Jimmy is that he has been playing with words instead of supporting us,” Doe said. “None of us used the words ‘sexual abuse’ when we talked about what Doc Strauss was doing to us, we just knew it was weird and Jimmy knew about it because we talked about it all the time in the locker room, at practices, everywhere.”
Strauss, who died in 2005, was accused of preying on hundreds of men who attended the university from the 1970s through the 1990s, mostly under the guise of performing medical exams like hernia checks, which require a doctor to examine a patient’s genitals.
OSU has admitted it failed to protect students from Strauss and has already paid out $60 million in settlement money to 296 victims. And in June, the U.S. Supreme Court stymied OSU’s attempt to dismiss the remaining lawsuits against the school.
Jordan was mentioned by name in the complaints filed with the federal court for the Southern District of Ohio in 2019, and he was also mentioned in some of the earlier lawsuits.
The hubris of people like Jim Jordan who do horrible things and don’t even have the sense to keep their heads down! I find it astonishing.
Open thread.
WaterGirl
I wondered why someone in the morning thread posted a link to this as if it were news, because I had put up a post about this yesterday. As it turns out, I created the post yesterday, but because there was so much going on, I had scheduled it for today. oops!
AM in NC
Also wondering when the George Clooney movie about this is due to come out. As much light as we can shine on the horrible, awful, dare I say it, deplorable, people in the Republican Party, the better for everyone.
WaterGirl
The bad angel on my shoulder has talked me into posting this video clip of Santos. Nothing really happens, but I found that watching it was very cathartic!
WaterGirl
@AM in NC: I know! If there were ever a time to release it, this is totally it.
Old School
I mean, she was lying, but I suppose she did say that.
Mousebumples
@Old School: or she has the memory of a goldfish. I’d believe either.
Scout211
I posted that article downstairs. This part is one of the many parts of these men’s statements that just infuriates me:
This is pervasive in sexual abuse, particularly when someone in power, someone you trust or someone you love is abusing you sexually. You don’t see it, you can’t see it as “sexual abuse” so you don’t say those exact words to trusted confidants. It just doesn’t make sense to you that what is happening to you is sexual abuse. So it is up to trusted confidants (like in a sports setting, your coaches and assistant coaches) to help you understand and intervene for you.
Jordan has been in CYA mode since the 80s and continues to only care about himself and his reputation. He is an asshole and he is a horrible person.
If anyone says he would be the same as McCarthy as speaker, I completely and totally disagree. IMHO, he would be worse.
japa21
@Old School: I was all set to show the same line. I believe it was Nancy Mace. Of course she’s lying. But then ignoring reality and then lying about it are standard Republican behavior these days.
Ken
Neither learned the first rule of cockroaching, don’t turn the light on yourself?
Citizen Alan
GOP = Gross Old Pedophiles. All of them are sexual predators at heart. Luckily, most of them are also cowards more afraid of getting caught (instead of, you know, refraining from predation out of human decency like normal people). But I think the vast majority of GOP politicians would probably sexually assault someone if they were certain they could get away with it.
Barbara
@Old School: I guess she won’t be able to lie about it the next time she is asked.
Jordan’s record on this is so shameful. IIRC, when former members of his team called him to tell him that they were going to publicize what happened to them, they weren’t blaming him for not having done more — he wasn’t much more than a young college graduate working as an assistant on the team he had been a member of — they were just looking for his support and acknowledgment of what had happened. And Jordan went nuclear, and threatened them with legal action if they so much as mentioned his name in their statement. He called mutual acquaintances to try to poison them against those going public. Which, I am sure, made them (and me) wonder if Jordan knew a lot more than any of them realized. And he has maintained, contrary to the memories of all of them, that he has no idea what they are talking about.
WaterGirl
@Scout211: I agree with everything you wrote. I think Jordan would be easily 10x worse that McCarthy. And that’s saying a lot
edit: for Nancy Mace to pretend she doesn’t know about this and to say she knows nothing about this abuse in (practically) the same breath where she pretends to have voted against McCarthy because of something related to abuse is rage-inspiriing.
Roger Moore
I think I can understand how people like Jim Jordan and Donald Trump think they’ll get away with this stuff: they have so far. They’ve done all kinds of stuff to bring attention to themselves, and the skeletons in their closet haven’t derailed them so far, even when they’ve come out. That gives them the confidence to keep going for even more public positions. It keeps working until it doesn’t.
Josie
It makes me angry that the journalists (and I use the term loosely) don’t harp on this as much as they do Biden’s age and family problems and other Democratic foibles.
Alison Rose
I hate that these guys are having to relive this on a national stage. Proud of them for doing this and I hope they have the support they need. Trauma can sneak up on you even when you think you’re doing okay.
Barbara
@Alison Rose: Again, based on some articles I read several years ago, they were inspired to go public because of the gymnasts who came forward to report Larry Nasser.
WaterGirl
@Ken:
Exactly!
WaterGirl
@Barbara: It seems that this speaker fight would be the perfect time to remind everyone about the previous speaker who was indicted for abuse.
Come on, media people, do your fucking jobs. The hook is right there in front of you.
Barbara
@WaterGirl: What’s doubly amazing is that Jordan seems to be worried mostly because there is a real chance that he was actually a victim of the doctor — he is afraid that he will be blamed for being an abuse victim. For not punching him when he tried something “funny” and so on. All the things people tell themselves they would do if it happened to them, when, in fact, they would likely react the way most other people do — disbelief it is happening, and freezing from fear and shock.
And Nancy Mace just proved that sexual abuse is just an issue of convenience, something to trot out when you need some progressive cred for whatever obscure reason it helps you. Like human trafficking for evangelicals.
Alison Rose
@Barbara: That is both heartbreaking and very moving.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
McCarthy is simple, Jordan is anything but.
As the victims are saying, he told them all to shut up, as if nothing is wrong. He’s condoning this behavior because it might shine some light on him, as he did nothing. Was he picking out victims for the coach? Pushing victims to the front to protect himself instead of doing the right thing? Because he sure seems like the type to do that.
Gin & Tonic
This here is a very well played response to some of the sewage on Twitter:
Barbara
@Ruckus: My working theory is that he was a victim, because he had definitely been a member of the team and subject to examination by the same doctor. I assume that he is ashamed that he wasn’t a tough guy who stood up to him. It’s bad for his image.
wjca
Having gotten away with it for years, decades even, why would it occur to them that anything might change?
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
It keeps working until it doesn’t.
It is also likely that they think they are far better than anyone else, because the deception is working. Till it doesn’t of course.
Humans can be many things and horrible is one of them. In small settings they can often get away with their crap. But at some point they want more and more attention on their “greatness.” And they have so often sold themselves on that “greatness” that they don’t recognize the error of their ways. It’s part of the “greatness,” the ability to rationalize their crappy behavior.
cain
@WaterGirl: RELEASE THE KRAKEN!
cain
@wjca: That’s what Trump thought as well – and well, shit’s going down and his businesses are being shut down.
Geminid
Looks like Dickarus may be flying to close to the Sun.
gene108
@Barbara:
Jordan wrestled at the University of Wisconsin, not The OSU.
I don’t think graduate assistants are subject to medical exams.
Ruckus
@Barbara:
Bingo!
Most of the time, when people get away with crappy behavior they rationalize it internally, that it’s OK for them to do it, that there’s nothing wrong with it, even if they know better. We are all capable of this, some call it part of the survival instinct, do whatever is necessary for their survival. Being a crappy human isn’t part of survival, especially in an actual group of normal humans. It’s why there are laws about this though, because there are quite a few abnormal humans around.
Ken
And in totally unrelated legal news, the latest of Molly White’s reports on the Sam Bankman-Fried trial includes this tidbit about how he ran his companies:
Trivia Man
Now it’s Gym’s turn in the barrel!
Called it!
Barbara
@gene108: I defer to you on that. What people remember clearly is that it was a subject of a lot of discussion by team members and that Jordan was present and knew about it.
Ruckus
@Ken:
In for a dime, in for a billion.
cain
@Ken: his stans are still gonna go with their cult leader. Cheating the system is exactly how to do it!
Trivia Man
Now pile on with his JAN 6 and ignoring congressional subpoenas! Throw him MORE anchors!
Barbara
@Ken: I read the New Yorker article on his family life — mostly his parents — and I thought it was way too kind. Something went terribly wrong and while the parents can’t be blamed for everything, they clearly don’t seem to have understood or guarded against their son’s worst impulses.
eclare
@AM in NC:
I googled that a few days ago, and all I got was that HBO/Max has not set a release date. That movie needs to be released immediately, I don’t know what people are afraid of.
Villago Delenda Est
None of these accusations are new, it’s just that the MSM has been pointedly ignoring it up to now, because that’s just the way they roll. Now that Jordan is raising his profile, the clicks are going up, so the MBA asshole beancounters are giving permission to make this a “story”. Yes, I’m very cynical, but our media is so fucked up with this short term capitalist profit seeking mentality that their nominal mission is totally lost in the process.
WaterGirl
@Barbara:
Wondering if that’s something you have read, or is that speculation. There’s something very not right about Jordan, and I suppose trauma and shame not-dealt-wtih could come out in very ugly ways.
Villago Delenda Est
@Ken: THIS
CaseyL
I’m quite sure that being a cishet sexual predator is not a disqualification for a GOPer running for anything (Roy Moore being the sole exception), so even if House GOPers pay any attention at all to the OSU abuse scandal (which they won’t) it won’t matter.
Barbara
@WaterGirl: It’s been a while since I devoured articles on this and it’s possible that I am remembering incorrectly. He has certainly never admitted to being a victim, and he has denied all knowledge of discussing the doctor’s outrageous practices, but those who were on the team seem to vividly remember having discussions in which he was present. I mean, I assume he is afraid of being accused of being in a position of authority and not seeking some way to stop this guy. Having denied it thus far, he may just be locked into continuing that denial however unbelievable it now seems.
MattF
I do wonder just how these damaged people rise to the top in politics. Are they all damaged and conspire to drive out the normies?
Geminid
@WaterGirl: Santos probably thought he wouldn’t win last year; he did not come very close in 2020. If Santos had lost he might not have ended up in all this hot water. So this clip fits well with the theme of your post.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@MattF: Good question. Do they represent the same percentage of damaged people as the general population? Is there some advantage to being not quite right in becoming a politician? You have to be eager for power and willing to put yourself out there. I’ve read that the percentage of CEOs who are sociopaths is higher than the general population, though still small. The population of criminals is too.
Trivia Man
@Villago Delenda Est: if I may quote an appropriate declaration… Villago Delenda Est
You are still right
Paul in KY
@gene108: Dr. Strauss thought differently….
James Filyaw
Other than a two digit I.Q., what?
Tony Jay
And because of what and what these people are, you just know that there’s probably already been a meeting between Gym and the most expensive legal and PR talent his sugar daddies
canconsider it worthwhile to afford where they’ve gone through all this with him to create the ‘best’ strategy.So I guess we can expect nasty social media campaigns implying that Gym truly knew nothing about the abuse, because as a good Christian boy he closed his ears to what sounded to him a LOT like the locker-room chatter of a homosexual clique, and that when the University began to understand what the coach in question was up to, Gym was approached by certain members of this clique who threatened to accuse him of involvement in the abuse if he didn’t tell lies in support of their lucrative legal actions.
If he doesn’t dirty these guys up, and soon, that’s his career cut off at the knees. Hell hath no fury like a MAGAt faced with evidence of wrongdoing.
Scout211
This is a good time to plug the excellent Netflix documentary on the decades of child sexual abuse in the Boy Scouts of America.
Institutional cover-up of child sexual abuse is not a new thing (see churches, schools, sports teams, community groups, etc., everywhere) but this documentary is very well done and includes many victims and their stories. Highly recommend.
Scouts Honor : Secret Files Of The Boy Scouts of America | Trailer
wjca
In an election back home, that might be useful. But in an election for Speaker? Those might well be a plus. Sad, but true.
Villago Delenda Est
Just see the head MAGAt’s reaction to, well, everything that involves courtrooms and massive judgements against him and possible jail time.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Huh. Steve Scalise is the Rs’ nominee.
WaterGirl
@Geminid: Like Trump likely didn’t expect to win, either.
Trivia Man
@wjca: Same thing they do with Nancy Smash… tie him to EVERY candidate EVERYWHERE. It will help some of them but I am optimistic enough to believe it will harm more of them.
Joseph Patrick Lurker
Per CNN: Steve Scalise beats Jim Jordan in closed door vote
Omnes Omnibus
@Barbara: He wrestled at Wisconsin and was an assistant coach at OSU. He may still have been a victim, but he was not a team member.
Brachiator
Hell, I would like to see Jordan recalled by the people who voted him into office. And as far as I can tell, almost all of the GOP candidates for Speaker are scum.
ETA. Scalise is the GOP choice? Not surprising.
Wyatt Salamanca
So much for Trump’s influence on Republican members of Congress.
MattF
@Dorothy A. Winsor: There’s a strong argument that Dems should never vote for Jordan. OTOH, there does have to be a Speaker, and Scalise appears to be the least bad real option.
WaterGirl
Jim Jordan was a “trusted adult” in the role that he was in back then.
Let’s just say for a second that Jordon was totally obtuse and truly did not understand what the players were saying.
Wouldn’t a trusted adult feel terrible and apologize profusely for not understanding and not being there for the players?
HIs reaction – don’t tell anyone, don’t you dare use my name – is not the response of a normal human being that was approached for help.
Trivia Man
@Wyatt Salamanca: I’m STILL not tired of winning
Dorothy A. Winsor
@MattF: Cassidy Hutchinson said Scalise would be better, for what that’s worth. Hutchinson had no use for Jordan. She said he was a liar.
hells littlest angel
Even if you only count Republican members of Congress, that’s still a hell of a lot of people.
WaterGirl
@Tony Jay: I so hope you are wrong about dirtying up these guys who were already abused. But you’re probably not.
Geminid
@WaterGirl: And now Trump wants desperately to win, so he can get out of all the trouble he got into by winning the first time. Sad!
WaterGirl
@Geminid: Let’s hope that doesn’t work out for Trump.
Tony Jay
@Villago Delenda Est:
He taught them well. That Subhuman Centipede thing they’ve got going on with Future Inmate#62252 may not be healthy or nourishing, but it certainly fills their bellies.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
What does “nominee” mean?
Geminid
@MattF: On the other hand, if Democrats don’t help put Scalise in and the Republicans can’t do it on their own, that will open up other options.
Maybe we’ll get to see.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Baud: In this case, candidate?
Betty
@eclare: I guess it’s the old “We don’t want Republicans to yell at us” thing.
zhena gogolia
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Scalise has a nanogram of integrity (if there is such a unit of measure).
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
They control the House. I don’t know what it means for them to select one candidate.
Brachiator
@WaterGirl:
To the contrary, his response seems to be common in situations involving claims of abuse involving the Church, college athletics, the Boy Scouts, women’s gymnastics. There is pressure to downplay accusations in order to protect institutions and people in power.
I would even include the Congressman in the past who was accused of interfering with male interns.
Tony Jay
@WaterGirl:
They are what they are, and if lies, gaslighting and character-assassination are what the situation requires… well, that’s lucky, because they are what they are.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Baud: He won the closed vote. How unified they are in supporting him, I don’t know.
Baud
“By rejecting Trump’s pick for Speaker, House Republicans assert Independence, making second Trump term less dangerous.” /DavidBrooks
Villago Delenda Est
@Baud: Good question. We won’t know until they actually vote. I wouldn’t be surprised if some Rethugs just voted “present”.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Ok, thanks. I guess we’ll see.
J. Arthur Crank (fka Jerzy Russian)
@Geminid:
OK, that is worth a smirk or two.
andy
seems like the House GOP has a sexual assault and pedophilia problem- jordan preferred to look the other way and he’s running to lead the House GOP which operates under the hastert rule- the work of another pedophile who the GOP covered for his entire political career.
of course, if your entire rationale for holding office is using it as a venue for abusing power, then all this makes sense.
smith
This is something I’ve been thinking about as I’ve followed the legal machinations of TFG and his lawyers in his various trials. It’s striking how often legal analysts comment that some maneuver they make is just bonkers, not just pushing the envelope, but well outside of it. It seems to me that this stems to a great degree from these characters being cushioned over a long time in the RW alternate universe, where everything they say and do is A-OK just because they are the ones saying and doing it. It’s something that’s been commented on before when they refer to a RW fantasy issue that no one outside the bubble has even heard about.
Their alternate reality works to their advantage until it doesn’t, and then it’s a serious liability. Now, they are crashing into the real, hard reality of laws and courts outside of the bubble, and suddenly everything they think they can get away with is challenged. They have no coping skills for operating in that arena. One reason TFG is clearly losing his grip is that he’s having to operate in such a strange universe. The disorientation he feels must be extreme. Santos is just the more comical version of this phenomenon, and hopefully Gym will encounter it soon himself.
Scout211
That is up to the GOP in the house, like the Dems have been saying all along. They have enough members to elect a GOP speaker. They will just have to figure out how to do that.
I sincerely hope that no Democratic member votes for a GOP speaker. The GOP would never return the favor in the future. I hope that we don’t get caught up in the MSM meme of “Why don’t the Democrats solve this GOP problem?”
Baud
@Scout211:
Won’t happen, unless Scalice and Jefferies reach some type of power sharing deal.
CaseyL
Other than being an out and proud racist, an election denier, and so in love with Guns For Everyone! that even being shot himself didn’t change his mind, Scalise seems…ok.
I mean, he seems like a marginally functional human being, a standard which very few GOPers can meet.
Geminid
@Baud: It might put a certain amount of peer pressure on caucus members to fall in line.
It’s really in their interests to elect Scalise, but there is a strong strain of nihilism in that bunch. Sad!
PAM Dirac
@Baud:
It seems not much. The report is Scalise got 113 to Jordan’s 99, both far short of what is needed to be Speaker. I guess in a disciplined party everyone would vote for the party candidate in the Speaker vote, but if Rs had any discipline there wouldn’t have been 15 votes for speaker back in Jan.
eclare
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I think she worked for Scalise, yep just googled, she interned for him. She also interned for Cruz…
WaterGirl
@Baud: They still have to vote on the record, when the entire House votes.
So to me this seems like a straw ballot, so they have some idea of where things stand going in. Maybe the humiliation from the 15 votes for speaker last time was too much.
My personal opinion is that this may cut down the the number of votes by 2-5.
I wonder if threats were issued?
Baud
@CaseyL:
He’s no different than anyone else in his caucus. The biggest question is whether he’s a liar or will keep his word. Dems can deal with the latter.
WaterGirl
@Geminid: There’s no way the Dems should vote for Scalise.
Baud
@PAM Dirac:
Oh, thanks. That’s relatively close.
Villago Delenda Est
Until one of the participants writes about this and gets published, we’ll never know.
WaterGirl
@Villago Delenda Est: Or we could learn it from the stenographer they tell, in 2 years when they publish their book.
artem1s
@Scout211:
OSU has been in full coverup mode on this since the beginning. There are a host of people who were around during the 20+ years that are in prominent state and federal positions now. And there are a host of administrators in OSU’s President’s and General Counsel Office who knew about the allegations and assisted in the ongoing cover up. Anyone who was State AG, Governor, or on the Board of Regents should be called in for questioning about what they knew and when they knew it. They all have been as cagey and worse than Gym in order to save their own asses and their colleague’s asses. It’s Penn State and Jerry Sandusky on steroids. Uncovering the truth is going to put a lot of people in the spotlight who were smart enough, so far, to avoid it. They’ve been trying to cover up that they were successfully groomed by Strauss to look the other way and/or intervene in letting a full investigation to take place. They thought when he died it would all go away. I’m glad the students are standing up for themselves and being vocal. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the problem was ignored for so long because of blatant homophobia at OSU and the NCAA. It was – you know – “wrestling” and not a real manly sport like football. They obviously ‘deserved’ it.
The Thin Black Duke
Jordan is hoping that the GOP hates Democrats more than they hate pedophiles. Maybe he’s not wrong.
Villago Delenda Est
@WaterGirl: Cynical, but unfortunately very accurate.
lowtechcyclist
@Old School:
I hadn’t realized until the past couple of days that Mace was only in her second term in the House. I had to wonder why a second-term backbencher gets so much coverage: not just now, but over the past few years, her name’s been in the news fairly regularly.
Then I realized: she’s one of the media’s go-to “see, there ARE moderate Republicans” examples. There aren’t many of them left, so they have to make as much use as they can out of the few that they can find.
Geminid
@Baud: Speaking of power sharing, Laura Rozen posted a couple reports that Benny Gantz will join Netanyahu in an emergency “unity government.” Supposedly, fellow National Unity party MK Gadi Eisenkot, another former IDF Chief, will too.
I have not seen the details, but reports are that fellow Likud members had to pressure Netanyahu into this. His wife really didn’t like the idea.
rikyrah
Absolutely a scumbag😡😡
Baud
@Geminid:
I’m seeing mainstream press talking about Bibi’s political vulnerability because of the attacks.
AM in NC
@eclare: Interesting. So it’s done, just not released? Wonder why HBO/MAX is holding it.
Villago Delenda Est
@Geminid: Well, his wife thinks it will make Bibi “look bad”. Bibi can do that all by himself, thank you very much. He’s vile fascist filth.
Wyatt Salamanca
@Trivia Man:
@Baud:
Any day in which Trump is publicly humiliated is, by definition, a good day.
Contrary to what David Brooks states, a Trump victory in 2024 would be a dystopian nightmare regardless of who the Republicans choose as their Speaker of the House. this week
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
On our side, the Squad got some similar media attention. The “moderate” lie for Mace probably helps, but I think it also is because she has a personality that works for media.
Baud
@Wyatt Salamanca:
Technically, that was a prediction of what he will state.
jonas
@Barbara: I hadn’t thought of that until now, but it makes a lot of sense. He’s haunted by a deeply-internalized sense of shame and it is outraged that others had the courage to speak up and he didn’t.
PAM Dirac
@Baud:
Scalise needs over 100 more votes than he got in conference and there are already reports of Jordan voters who aren’t going to vote for Scalise in the Speaker vote. Max Miller according to CNN:
ETA: It seems the House will convene at 3pm, but no word on what is going to happen or if and when any votes will be taken.
Sure Lurkalot
I’m not sure what the closed door (straw poll?) means but while on the sad subject of Jim Jordan, he was all in on the January 6th insurrection and other ploys to overturn the election.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/calmes-jim-jordan-should-never-be-house-speaker-heres-why/ar-AA1i04v4?ocid=socialshare
This quote from the article is a bit maddening:
Yeah, Liz, but while Jordan’s complicity is in the report, the emphasis in the hearings was pretty much all Trump as if “he alone” was the only target of the investigation.
Geminid
@WaterGirl: I guess its possible, but Democrats won’t vote for Scalise if Jeffries, Clark and Aguilar don’t want them to.
This could be fun!
Baud
@PAM Dirac:
“He’s sufficiently racist, but he’s not enough of a clown for my taste.”
Barbara
@artem1s: No doubt homophobia played a role for some people, but considering the similar reaction by institutions to the multiple instances of flagrant and reported wrongdoing by male doctors directed at women and girls, it’s way more than homophobia. It’s reactionary identification with the institutional prerogatives and status of the powerful against the relatively powerless. It’s a gag inducing reflexive desire to find common cause with those who have power against those who are weak. It’s the same story at USC, Michigan State, Columbia University and on and on.
I mean, Penn State was horrific because among other things Sandusky abused young boys in a way that probably ruined the lives of more than a few of them. But the sheer scale of what happened at these other institutions over a long period of time and their determination to NOT investigate and to protect the wrongdoers dwarfs what happened at Penn State.
Alison Rose
Oh goody. This guy.
Baud
@Barbara:
Plus, think of the paperwork.
coin operated
@Baud: As well they should. Something just doesn’t add up in this whole ordeal. I want to know more about the Egyptian intel warnings and just how much exposure Bibi has here.
Baud
@Alison Rose:
David Duke is nothing but baggage.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Geminid: It was more fun in January. At least then, I didn’t feel like the world was on fire and the House needed to act.
ETA: But yeah, I anticipate some entertainment too.
MattF
SMBC explains how extroverts rise and then fall.
Shalimar
I have no idea what the fuck just happened. Scalise is acting like he has 217 votes because he rigged the caucus rules to declare himself the winner that everyone must vote for. He doesn’t even remotely have 217 votes, and declaring victory seems really stupid. This is not how you convince the other 104 voters.
hueyplong
@Alison Rose: Worth noting that for approximately 57% of those paying attention, being called “David Duke without the baggage” is in fact the baggage.
Wish the percentage were higher.
Ken
@PAM Dirac: I was wondering if they’d adopted the proposed rule that their nominee get 217 votes in their private caucus. Guess not. Now, what promises will Scalise have to make to get the additional votes?
HumboldtBlue
@Barbara:
You may have nailed it.
Alison Rose
@Baud: John Oliver had a similar sentiment:
lowtechcyclist
@MattF:
I’d be pissed as hell at any Dems who voted for this ambulatory sleazebucket. We know what he is.
If the Rethugs want a Speaker, let five of them vote for Jeffries.
Baud
@Alison Rose:
He steals my jokes too.
Geminid
@Baud: I was checking Israel Twitter last night and a lot of those people are really hot about Netanyahu’s failures. I’ve thought that Netanyahu will be thrown out after this war concludes, but now I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens sooner.
hueyplong
@lowtechcyclist: Dems seem unlikely to assist any Republican candidate absent some sort of enforceable concession.
eclare
@AM in NC:
Maybe it’s not done, I just reread.
https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2023/04/12/hbo-documentary-ohio-state-richard-strauss-sex-abuse-scandal-george-clooney-jim-jordan-coach/70107926007/
That is the latest update I could find.
japa21
Let’s wait and see if anybody other than Scalise gets nominated by Republicans. Interesting dynamic. If part of the “deal” is only Scalise gets nominated from the GOP and some Republicans chose not to vote, Speaker Jeffries might happen. This is merely a dream not to be accepted as having any relation to reality.
Ruckus
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I believe that a part of it is that they are successful. And they are successful because in some ways they condone the bad behavior of others. And often they learn that being an asshole can help you get ahead, so even if they hadn’t that level of asshole prior, they see it as a way to get where they want to go and join the crowd.
It’s the whatever works methodology.
Scout211
@Barbara: OO said at #58 that Jordan was not a member of the OSU team. He was on the team at Wisconsin. He was an assistant at OSU. Like OO said, he may have been a victim on a previous team or somewhere else in his life but not as a member of the OSU team.
Maybe, as an assistant coach, he felt pressure to cover it up and protect the university, covertly or directly from his superiors. But the kind of pressure he put on these men to quash their personal statements and lawsuits decades later, I still see him as only concerned about himself.
ETA: National Wrestling Hall of Fame- Jim Jordan
Alison Rose
@Baud: Once you become president, you can make late night comedy illegal!
bbleh
@Alison Rose: @MattF: one thing Scalise has, very much unlike Jordan, is a rep for having good relationships with at least some Dems. This suggests the possibility that, if he’s elected, the House won’t be totally dysfunctional either on its own or as part of the larger government.
@lowtechcyclist: Agree, at least for the time being. It’s their mess; let them clean it up. Fkin tired of Dems being expected to mop up after Republicans piss all over everything (including themselves).
WaterGirl
@Shalimar: I thought the vote to change the rule re: 217 votes HAD FAILED.
bbleh
@WaterGirl: It did. Shalimar likely is talking about the House floor.
WaterGirl
@eclare: To me, this is like making a big holiday dinner for a bunch of people. At some point, everything else is done and some dish is holding things up.
At that point I say “the rolls are done, whether they are done or not” and dinner proceeds.
At this point, they need to do the same. “The movie is done enough, release it.”
Geminid
@Dorothy A. Winsor: We have a strong President with a good national security team, so I’m not too worried.
Right now it’s probably just as well Republicans are chasing their tails. Aside from their ability to help get money authorized, that Majority is less than worthless.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@japa21: When I hear talk about Jeffries being speaker, my first question is why do you hate Hakeem Jeffries?
MattF
@japa21: Republicans will insure that their total vote is a majority of the House— any R rep not voting would carry the ‘burden’ of electing Jeffries. And, by implication, Pelosi.
AM in NC
@eclare: Thanks for linking to this.
japa21
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I don’t, not really.
@MattF: As I mentioned, purely a dream. The only reason I would like it is that you can be sure Ukraine funding would get through as well as a clean CR.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@WaterGirl:
@japa21: Yep, came into the thread to mention Nancy Mace. Late to the party as usual.
She appears to be trying to thread some kind of needle, to try to get along with both the Crazy Caucus and the Not Clinically Insane GOP Caucus (I’m not going to say “Moderate Republican” because that’s a completely imaginary beast).
Good luck with that, Nancy. Trying to please everyone always works, amirite?
Dorothy A. Winsor
Here’s a holy cow moment. Am I going to have to say nice things about Ken Buck?
bbleh
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Read somewhere that her red district has shifted further to the red, suggesting that more of her constituents have gone full MAGAt. I’d guess she’s just trying to protect herself from a primary challenge.
MattF
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I’d wait on that until he’s expelled from the party.
Geminid
@Dorothy A. Winsor: You can always call Buck “Old School.” That’s kind of neutral
Ed. Or “OG,” as in “Old Gangsta.”
WaterGirl
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Maybe just this once.
Ken
@Dorothy A. Winsor: He was doing well until he got to “rule”.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@WaterGirl: OK, near as I can figure out, Scalise got a majority of the Republican votes which means his name is in the ring and now he gets a vote of the full House.
But only 113 people voted for him.
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/house-speaker-race-10-11-23/index.html
Steeplejack
@Alison Rose:
Amazon said my cat food was delivered to Forgotten Felines yesterday. 👍
CaseyL
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I get stuck on that “…we don’t have the moral clarity to rule”…
“Rule”?
Excuse the fuck out of me?
“Rule”?
I mean, yeah, it’s a truism among people who prefer democracy that the GOP wants to rule rather than govern, but to hear the GOP itself say so, out loud, is either refreshingly honest or nauseating.
I opt for the latter.
Roger Moore
@CaseyL:
FWIW, Doug Jones thought accusations of pedophilia were counterproductive. He thought there was actually a rallying effect when the media focused on the accusations around Moore’s sexual interest in teen girls. Some people saw it as an underhanded attack and supported him more strongly when that became the focus rather than what a terrible job he did in office.
BellyCat
People don’t report abuse when the environment in which abuse takes place is unwilling to acknowledge the abuser.
Look what happened to Mike McQuery and Joe Paterno at Penn State. These were the ONLY two people who (perhaps imperfectly) reported Sandusky. Both were ruined.
The Thin Black Duke
@WaterGirl: The decision not to release it sounds like someone upstairs doesn’t want to rock the GOP’s boat. Call me cynical, but I expect the documentary to come out after 2024.
Ken
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: From reading that, I can’t tell if Rep. Nehls is going to vote for Scalise. It sounds like he’s telling moderates to vote for the Trump-endorsed candidate, Jordan.
PAM Dirac
CNN reporting that the House will convene at 3pm then immediately recess. No Speaker vote today. I guess no one thinks they can get 217.
Frankensteinbeck
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
I still want the actual vote to happen before declaring certainty, but if Jordan doesn’t win this first vote, you are flat-out factually wrong, Nehls.
Bill Arnold
@zhena gogolia:
Yup. 6.02 * 10^14 hydrogen atoms (H-1) in a nanogram, so he’s well above the bottom limit for ordinary matter, and e..g. neutrinos are much much lighter.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Ken: I agree. Why did they even have this vote, effectively a primary for Speaker? I would guess they’re trying to avoid a repeat of the public embarrassment caused by McCarthy’s 15 ballots, by putting a candidate forward who’s going to get the votes on the first round.
If so, they haven’t accomplished that. And “public embarrassment” is going to be the hallmark of basically everything the House GOP does until they are no longer in the majority.
Alison Rose
@Steeplejack: Thank you again!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Mr DAW tells me that he heard that Jordan says he won’t support Scalise. Fun times for all .
prostratedragon
@Geminid: Salut!
sab
@PAM Dirac: Max Miller’s district in Ohio is close to Jordan’s. His constituents would probably hold it against him if he voted afainst a fellow buckeye being Speaker.
Geminid
@Ken: It sounds to me like Troy Nehls was trying to bully the “moderates,” because they voted against his guy and let it be known that Trump’s endorsement was a factor. A sore loser.
He kind of made their case for them though. And he sowed more hostilty in a caucus that has plenty already. They’re getting to be like the Hatfields and the McCoys
WaterGirl
@The Thin Black Duke: I mostly agree, but if anyone has pull to buck the big boys, it should be him.
RevRick
@Mousebumples: The GOP has a tremendous capacity to conveniently forget. Look how they’ve memory-holed Denny Hastert and W. You have MAGA types swear that Obama let 9/11 happen on his watch or was responsible for the terrible response to Katrina, and that Biden was President when COVID struck and there were some crime-against-humanity lockdowns (when they were all half-hearted and short-lived).
mrmoshpotato
No Rethuglican has business being Speaker of the House.
Mousebumples
There’s a joke in there somewhere about soap operas and amnesia.
Semi – related – I wondered for a moment why GOP reps who couldn’t support Scalise or whoever should maybe not show up… But then I realized that with the razor thin GOP margin, we might be looking at Speaker Jeffries.
I have every faith in his ability to do the job, but hoo boy. 😬
janesays
@WaterGirl: They won’t. On every ballot, Jeffries will be getting 100% of the Democratic caucus vote.
I don’t think we’ll have a new Speaker this week.
bbleh
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: this was the conference meeting to nominate a candidate for Speaker. The Dems did the same thing and nominated Jeffries in less than an hour. Then the action shifts to the floor.
The proposal to require a vote of 217 WITHIN the Republican conference was indeed intended to assure a majority vote once the nominations reached the floor and so avoid another 15-ballot fiasco. But that proposal was rejected, in part because it was seen as giving the Crazies effective veto power, but also in part because it would have required a roll-call rather than a secret ballot on the third vote; ie, members would have had to say publicly whom they were voting for. Lotsa folks didn’t like that one bit.
Another Scott
Scalise wasn’t too good at counting votes for other Speakers when he was Whip.
The House is 221 GQP / 212 Democratic / 2 vacant at the moment on Wikipedia.
The Speaker has to get a majority of those voting (and a quorum being present), so Jeffries would only win if enough GQPers are absent or don’t vote, so that’s not going to happen (given the absence of some sort of political earthquake).
I kinda expect Jordan’s people to vote for him on the first ballot, there to be some sort of recess to have a discussion on their demands, and Scalise to win eventually with a bare majority after he gives the bomb-throwers what they want. Maybe the pound-of-flesh discussions have already taken place and they’ll surprise us with their “unity”. Maybe…
We’ll see pretty soon.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ken
It would of course be an absolute tragedy if ten or more Republicans were killed during their intra-party feud. Tragedy.
Baud
@bbleh:
That makes sense. Thanks.
bbleh
@WaterGirl: @janesays: concur they shouldn’t and won’t, at least for a while. Maybe if a deadlock persists the calculus may change, perhaps just to get the House operating again (at least to pass another CR), or perhaps if the Republicans do something crazy-stupid like turn to TIFG as a “compromise” candidate.
mrmoshpotato
@RevRick:
I wouldn’t even say half-hearted. In Chicago, these “lockdowns” were just asking (pleading?) people to stay at home as much as possible.
PAM Dirac
@Another Scott:
Apparently not today. CNN reports the House will convene and immediately adjorn. No vote today. I guess they will try to work something out before any votes.
Another Scott
It’s almost as if it had nothing to do with McCarthy’s positions. Hmm… ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
eclare
@Another Scott:
Cassidy Hutchinson said it was a personal vendetta because Gaetz tried to hit on her, and McCarthy told him to get lost. Improves my opinion of McCarthy a smidge.
https://www.businessinsider.com/kevin-mccarthy-matt-gaetz-camp-david-cabin-cassidy-hutchinson-2023-10
wjca
When he says “If we don’t have the moral clarity to decide whether President Biden won or not, we don’t have the moral clarity to rule,” you just have to realuze that he’s talking about a necessary condition for moral clarity, not a sufficient one. Does that help?
Another Scott
@PAM Dirac: Yup, they walked in with the Mace, did the prayer (a good prayer), did the Pledge of Allegiance, then adjourned.
Do they get a full-day per deim for that??
Cheers,
Scott.
Ken
Oooh, who was Nancy with? Was it that cute boy from the Texas delegation?
— every “Tiger Beat on the Potomac” reporter
Roger Moore
@Barbara:
I think in a lot of cases it’s at least as much about protecting the institution as it is about protecting the individual. Once one responsible person chooses to cover up rather than out the abuser, the institution has become complicit in the abuse. That makes higher ups reluctant to reveal the abuse, because it would make the institution look bad, so they also participate in the coverup. The more people who have participated in the coverup, the harder it is for anyone else to reveal it.
This is exactly the kind of thing abusers depend on. Once they have one defender, it gets easier and easier to get more. Once there’s one abuser in the system, it gets harder to respond to the next one out of fear of revealing the first and the institution’s role in protecting them. If there are multiple abusers, it becomes increasingly likely they’ll advance in the organization and start to twist it to their ends. That’s how institutions become completely taken over by abusers.
Argiope
@Geminid: As his former constituent, I fully endorse this nickname for Gym. Also, LMAO.
Ruckus
@Geminid:
They’re getting to be like the Hatfields and the McCoys
That getting is doing a hell of a lot of work. The ARE the Hatfields and the McCoys. Half their party is insane and the other half is far worse. They are looking for a political time of 250-300 yrs ago but that is way behind current life. They do not want to recognize change, growth, and that their way really doesn’t work in a country of well over 300 million, especially as it really didn’t work all that well when the country was far less populated. Their way was one of the reasons this country exists. These are the people that have to have the nation and humanity one way and with them in charge, so that it works the way they think it should and which it never did very well.
Roger Moore
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
It’s genuinely weird to see who in the Republican party responds to what. I wasn’t surprised to see there were Republicans who broke with their party over Trump, but I was frequently surprised at who and why.
catclub
You underestimate her. She could definitely lie about it the next time.
catclub
@Bill Arnold: There was a line int eh book ( and movie) Paper Moon, about scruples. Mose tells his daughter he has scruples. ‘Yeah, but you probably stole them.’
Geminid
@Geminid: Foreign affairs reporter Laura Rozen (@lrozen) posted a link to a story about the “Unity Government” in Israel, by Steve Hendrix of the Washington Post.
Some details: Benny Gantz and PM Netanyahu have signed an agreement whereby Gantz and his 11-MK National Unity party will join the Israeli government for the duration of this war. The Knesset will meet in emergency session tomorrow to ratify the agreement.
Gantz, Netanyahu and Defense Minister Gallant will comprise a 3-man War Cabinet. Gadi Eisenkot and Ron Dermer will serve as observers.
Dermer is former Ambassador to the US and a Netanyahu ally. Like Gantz, Eisenkot is a former IDF Chief of Staff and is a member of Gantz’s party. They will advise but not vote, and Eisenkot will keep a running tally of Netanyahu’s lies.
Other National Unity MKs will join a broader Security Cabinet, where National Unity MK Gideon Saar will keep a running tally of Interior Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir’s lies.
trollhattan
@Geminid: Is any of them not nuts?
Geminid
@trollhattan: Gantz, Eisenkot and Saar aren’t nuts, and the other National Unity MKs aren’t either. Defense Minister Gallant is not nuts either (in my opinion). Both Gallant and even more so Gantz are trusted and respected by Biden administration officials.
Gantz had a well-publicized phone call yesterday with Majority Leader Schumer. Gantz had volunteered to help form a unity government on Sunday; Netanyahu agreed but then dragged his feet on an agreement.
One reason the government had to be expanded was that Israelis do not trust Netanyahu now, and another is that the country’s most important ally does not either. I don’t think they ever did.
Schumer’s phone call was part of a pressure campaign to get Netanyahu to do the right thing. From what I’ve read, members of his Likud party were pressuring him as well.
artem1s
@Barbara:
The thing that really struck me about Penn was how effectively Sandusky groomed everyone involved. He talked the Penn President, General Counsel, and head football Coach into taking care of it ‘in house’ the first time he was caught. After that he had them all by the short hairs. All he had to do was threaten to let it slip that they looked the other way and didn’t report him to the police. That’s why Joe Pa let him run that program out the Penn facilities after they had fired him as an Assistant Coach. They all were more afraid of ruining the Penn reputation and possibly losing their jobs than they were afraid he might do it again. They thought they were protecting themselves, but what they were really doing was committing a felony and digging a bigger hole to crawl out of.
So many people make the mistake of thinking that ‘being groomed’ only describes those who are sexually abused. Pedophiles are experts at compromising (grooming) others into looking the other way or ignoring what’s happening right under their noses and once they do, they understand they have to keep doing it or suffer worse consequences.
The OSU athletic program is full of people who have been groomed to turn a blind eye to criminal behavior – NCAA violations, domestic abuse coverups, gambling and drugs. It’s a house of cards waiting to collapse. Strauss is just the tip of the iceberg.
StringOnAStick
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I am willing to bet actual money that the percentage of narcissists is higher in politicians than society as a whole, and that it is higher still on the R side of the aisle.
WaterGirl
@bbleh: I think that only happens if there is a power sharing agreement set in stone, that they can’t back out of.
WaterGirl
@eclare: I read that pretty carefully and to me it didn’t sound like McCarthy kicked Gaetz out because he had hit on Cassidy. McCarthy seemed to kick him out because he wasn’t invited.
The hitting on Cassidy part, to me, seemed like a separate fact that was kind of thrown in.
frosty
@artem1s: Minor quibble, it’s Penn State, not Penn, which is the University of Pennsylvania in Philly. Which TFIG claims he graduated from.
ETA other than that you make a lot of good points.