Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Welcome to day five of every-bit-as-bad-as-you-thought-it-would-be.

“Just close your eyes and kiss the girl and go where the tilt-a-whirl takes you.” ~OzarkHillbilly

’Where will you hide, Roberts, the laws all being flat?’

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

… pundit janitors mopping up after the gop

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

Oppose, oppose, oppose. do not congratulate. this is not business as usual.

The snowflake in chief appeared visibly frustrated when questioned by a reporter about egg prices.

Fucking consultants! (of the political variety)

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

Republicans do not trust women.

They punch you in the face and then start crying because their fist hurts.

American history and black history cannot be separated.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

So many bastards, so little time.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Go Joe and Other Musings

Go Joe and Other Musings

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So proud of Joe Biden.

Thank you, Joe!

⭐️

Is Ukraine becoming a literal proxy war between authoritarian countries and those who believe in democracy?  Instead of just a figurative one.

Anyone who thinks we don’t have to fight this fight in Ukraine, and win, is not grounded in reality.

⭐️

What’s the latest on the Speaker fight?

I am with Josh Marshall, asking who the hell is Austin Scott?

⭐️

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

142Comments

  1. 1.

    Alison Rose

    So glad we have Biden in office right now. I shudder to think what TIFG would be saying if he weren’t just blathering at rallies.

    I got nothing else except my back hurts because I was sweeping up bits of kibble from around the cat’s dish and I…I don’t know, stood up wrong??? Middle age sucks.

  3. 3.

    Yarrow

    Quite a new axis – Russia, Iran, North Korea, Hamas, Hezbollah…….

    How is this new? I thought Russia, Iran and North Korea were part of Bush’s “Axis of Evil?” Other nations or groups kind of seem to move in and out of that.

  5. 5.

    jackmac

    If it’s going to be Gym Jordan as Speaker, it’s well past time for our media to take a VERY, VERY detailed look at how he ignored and covered up complaints about a sexual predator harassing Ohio State wrestlers while he was an assistant coach.

  8. 8.

    smith

    Second vote: 152-55 Rs say they will vote for Jordan if it comes to the floor. He’s got a ways to go.

  10. 10.

    Old School

    @Yarrow:

    How is this new? I thought Russia, Iran and North Korea were part of Bush’s “Axis of Evil?”

    It was Iraq rather than Russia.  (As that was the country he wanted to invade.)

  11. 11.

    Nettoyeur

    @Yarrow:  Bush’s Axis was Iraq, Iran, North Korea. Originally there was no actual connection. Iraq, Iran were enemies, NoKo far away. Now Iran active in Iraq and NoKo selling arms. Russia is embroiled in Syria, buys drones from Iran, and is teaming up with NoKo on weapons.

  12. 12.

    WaterGirl

    @smith: From 124 to 152.  32 people changed their minds?   Interesting.

    I think they should all vote for Jordan in the straw vote and the pull the rug out from under him in the real thing on the House floor.

  15. 15.

    bbleh

    Jordan could be real poison for a purple-district Congress-critter, ‘cuz he’d go full scorched-earth, and a lot of purple-district voters wouldn’t like that at all.

    Guess it’s gonna come down to how many are willing to fall on their swords for Team Trump.

    (I was afraid of this when Trump endorsed him, although I thought it’d be more of a walkover, wrestlers notwithstanding.)

    Wonder what Jeffries is gonna say …

  21. 21.

    smith

    @WaterGirl: I don’t think they changed their minds exactly, they just signaled that they are willing to fall in line like good little authoritarians.

  23. 23.

    Cacti

    But definitely don’t call what the IDF is doing the war crime that it actually is.

    Brave.  Bold.

  29. 29.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @bbleh:

    Guess it’s gonna come down to how many are willing to fall on their swords for Team Trump.

    I’d say we proved categorically that Trump has little power over the House when Jordan couldn’t even pull a majority on the first vote.  Hard to say if he gained anything at all from the endorsement, since he was already the crazy preference.  When Scalise decided not to keep putting himself through the grinder, Jordan still hasn’t pulled it off when it’s him vs Random Goober.

    Hell if I know where this is going, but it’s clear Trump ain’t driving this train, whether or not it ends up going where he wants.

  31. 31.

    rikyrah

    Is Ukraine becoming a literal proxy war between authoritarian countries and those who believe in democracy?  Instead of just a figurative one.

     

    It has always been that.

  32. 32.

    cain

    @bbleh: And Jordan would get the blame if they lose the House next year.

    It’ll be a crazy election season with all kinds of drama. The media is going to make a killing.

  33. 33.

    Geminid

    @Suzanne: I think it’s a good thing to say a ceasefire is needed, because this war eventually needs to end with a ceasefire. But the US isn’t pressuring Israel for an immediate ceasefire because Israel wants to kill as many Hamas and Islamic Jihad fighters as it can and we’re on board with that program.

    I think that Hakan Fidan, the Turkish Foreign Minister, doesn’t expect Israel to agree to a ceasefire in the immediate future either, and may not even want them to. Turkiye seems to be interested not in ending this war now but mitigating the harm as much as possible.

    I mention FM Fidan because he will likely play a key role mediating the ceasefire that sooner or later will end this war. Turkiye os one of the very few countries that has decent relations with both Hamas and Israel.

  35. 35.

    Lacuna Synecdoche

    Josh Marshall via WaterGirl @ Top:

    I think the real breaking news is that there’s a rep from Georgia named Austin Scott.

    The Great Wikizardapedia says:

    In 2001, Scott was the first Republican in the Georgia House to work with Democrats to remove the Confederate battle emblem from the state’s flag. […] Following the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022, Scott consistently supported military aid to Ukraine. As of October 2023, he received an “A”-rating on the congressional report card on Ukraine support by Defending Democracy Together. …

    … 2021 Electoral College vote

    On January 7, 2021, Scott did not object to the Electoral College certification in the House of Representatives. … Scott condemned the violence at the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021. Scott attended President Joe Biden’s inauguration on January 20, 2021.
    [

    Well, that doesn’t sound too ba… oh, wait, there’s more coming in over the transom:

    Stock trades – Scott has been a successful stock trader while serving in Congress. He bought 1,000 shares of Fuel Cell Energy, Inc. (FCEL) at $2 per share on October 30, 2020, and sold some shares on December 23, 2020, at $13.42 (a 571% increase), selling the remainder on January 14, 2021, at $17.60 (a 780% increase). The website Unusual Whales follows congressional stock trading and has created a page for Scott’s trades.

    Abortion – Scott opposes abortion and believes that human life begins at conception.

    Budget, taxes, and the economy – Scott is in favor of a balanced budget amendment. He voted for the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017.

    Cannabis – Scott has a “D” rating from marijuana legalization advocacy organization the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) for his voting history regarding cannabis-related issues.

    Capital punishment – Scott is in favor of capital punishment.

    LGBT issues – Scott opposes same-sex marriage and is in favor of a Federal Marriage Amendment.

    Second Amendment – He opposes gun control.

    Women’s issues – Ultimately, he voted against the 2013 renewal of the Violence Against Women Act.

    Texas v. Pennsylvania – In December 2020, Scott was one of 126 Republican members of the House of Representatives to sign an amicus brief in support of Texas v. Pennsylvania, a lawsuit filed at the United States Supreme Court contesting the results of the 2020 presidential election…

    Oh. Umm… Never mind.

    Mostly standard GOP authoritarian prick.

  36. 36.

    Suzanne

    @Cacti: I felt like this after 9/11, like I was suddenly surrounded by people (even people I liked and thought were better than that) who had gone utterly crazy with fear and bloodlust.

  37. 37.

    Shalimar

    @smith: Even ignoring the 55 no votes, that still leaves 14 who either aren’t there or are not willing to vote for either candidate even in a secret ballot.  That 14 seems like the much bigger problem for Republicans.  The number has been pretty consistent all 4 times they have done this.  That is a lot of “fuck all of you assholes” voters when you can only lose 4.

  38. 38.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @smith:

    they just signaled that they are willing to fall in line like good little authoritarians.

    Pretty much.  It’s the difference between ‘your preferred candidate’ and ‘who you’re willing to accept if he wins.’

  43. 43.

    Suzanne

    @Geminid:

    But the US isn’t pressuring Israel for an immediate ceasefire because Israel wants to kill as many Hamas and Islamic Jihad fighters as it can and we’re on board with that program. 

    Yeah, no one’s arguing with that. But that’s not what is already happening and is not what is about to happen in Gaza.

    Fuck.

    Fuck Hamas. No argument there. But until they figure out how to do that without mass slaughter of civilians, fucking stop.

  44. 44.

    Cacti

    @Suzanne: Reminds me of the Iraq war, when it seemed like the whole country had jumped on the train to crazy town (including Senator Biden).

  46. 46.

    Ken

    @WaterGirl: 60 votes short of the speakership means, what, 50 votes short of what Jeffries will get?

    At least, I’m hoping they mean 60 more people voting for him, not 60 more rounds of voting. Though I could see it taking that.

  47. 47.

    Geminid

    @MattF: Israel knows they can’t kill every Hamas fighter. But they intend to kill a lot of them, especially the leadership.

    The time for mediation will come, just like it did in the 2021 Gaza war. That one ended after 11 days because we pressured Israel to end it , and Qatar mediated a ceasefire. This time we will hold off more than we did then.

  49. 49.

    Cacti

    Sure was humanitarian of the IDF to give the civilian population an evacuation warning after 3 days of peppering them with white phosphorus and cluster bombs.

  50. 50.

    rikyrah

    Anyone who thinks we don’t have to fight this fight in Ukraine, and win, is not grounded in reality.

     

    I know that’s right.

  51. 51.

    Lacuna Synecdoche

    @Nettoyeur:

    Now Iran active in Iraq and NoKo selling arms. Russia is embroiled in Syria, buys drones from Iran, and is teaming up with NoKo on weapons.

    … while China and India both fund Russian terrorism in Ukraine via oil purchases.

    It feels like we’re already basically in a Cold WW III.

  53. 53.

    Roger Moore

    @Lacuna Synecdoche:

    Mostly standard GOP authoritarian prick.

    What were you expecting?  Anyone in the Republican party who actually agrees with us on critical issues has already left it.  Anyone the Republicans nominate for Speaker is going to be awful on a whole host of issues.  Right now, the best we can hope for is slightly less awful.

  57. 57.

    Suzanne

    @Cacti: Every human rights and aid organization — MSF, Amnesty, the UN, etc — is saying that Gaza is an absolute pit of despair and that people literally cannot get out.

  58. 58.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Suzanne: When the story of the Hamas attack first broke, I saw a discussion about it on the Facebook feed of a friend. A dude with a long history of right-wing belligerence going back to 1990s Usenet broke in and started pontificating that if you weren’t “on Israel’s side”, you were on the side of Hamas baby-decapitators, no middle ground, no ifs, ands or buts. Friend just thanked him for his input with weary sarcasm, later noted just that things are going to get bad.

    (Friend is Jewish, belligerent dude demanding unconditional support for Israel is not.)

    We’ve all heard this song before. You hear a story of atrocities, someone tries to leverage it into carte blanche for one side in a conflict, and when that side commits atrocities of its own inevitably the excuses and explanations are going to come out. I remember it from when it was my country that got attacked. It’s not a happy song.

  59. 59.

    Scout211

    @HumboldtBlue: No idea what the context is.

    Intelligencer

    So, here’s what happened. We’ve all had an extremely long week, as you’re likely aware. On Friday afternoon, George Santos, the New York representative whose tally of alleged federal crimes is now up to 23, was spotted screaming in the hallway of the Longworth House Office Building. It appears Santos — who famously suggested his family was Jewish then revised this to “Jew-ish” — was accosted by pro-Palestinian protesters.
    Normally, neither a small protest on Capitol Hill nor George Santos shouting in front of a gaggle of reporters would be all that notable. But there’s the twist: Santos was holding a 2-month-old baby when this all went down.

     

    George Santos just left Tim Burchett’s office with a baby in his arms. When asked if it was his baby, he said “not yet.” pic.twitter.com/QQsfPAo8hC— Matt Rice (@matthew___rice) October 13, 2023

  61. 61.

    Lacuna Synecdoche

    @cain:

    Well he is a Republican.

    Yep, I was just pointing out, by implication, that there are a few moderate looking actions in his c.v. which the media is likely to promote – while ignoring the long list of things that mark him out as just another xenophobic right-wing GOP asshole.

  64. 64.

    WaterGirl

    If you didn’t watch Haakeem and the other leadership peeps speak on the steps of the House, I recommend watching it.  Link is at #41.

    The Dems did not hold back.

  68. 68.

    Shalimar

    @Suzanne: There is no doubt that Russia has been waging a psyops war against us since 2008.  And they upped the ante with a proxy war in Ukraine in 2014 and we did nothing to respond.  We’re still barely doing anything to respond.

  70. 70.

    Suzanne

    @Matt McIrvin:

    We’ve all heard this song before. You hear a story of atrocities, someone tries to leverage it into carte blanche for one side in a conflict, and when that side commits atrocities of its own inevitably the excuses and explanations are going to come out. I remember it from when it was my country that got attacked. It’s not a happy song. 

    No, it’s not.
    But I would like to think that we here are grownups and can hold onto more than one thought at a time.

    Nothing exhausts me more than the goddamn binary thinking that has come to characterize this entire issue. I have to say, hearing the White House Press Secretary describe calls for a ceasefire and de-escalation “repugnant” is incredibly disappointing. I find lack of concern for human immiseration repugnant.

  71. 71.

    Ken

    @Scout211: George Santos just left Tim Burchett’s office with a baby in his arms. When asked if it was his baby, he said “not yet.”

    WTH? Does he have to make a final payment? Is he adopting, and trying it out on spec?

  72. 72.

    cain

    @Suzanne: Deeply disagree with the spokesperson in regards to Israel support.

    Then again, I think we have shown to the world that we are not interested in helping out the palestinians. We are on the wrong side of history. They need a homeland. Israel needs to make space and there should be a two state solution.

  83. 83.

    Geminid

    @cain: The leadership can run, but they might not be able to hide. And a lot of the fighters will stay, because they want to inflict heavy casualties on the IDF. They think they can do it too.

  84. 84.

    Suzanne

    @cain:

    They need a homeland. Israel needs to make space and there should be a two state solution. 

    I honestly DGAF if it’s a one-state solution or a two-state solution or a three-state solution or whatever the fuck it is. Whomever wants to live there should be able to live there and vote as long as they can be peaceful. I am skeptical of ethnostates as a concept. Which — of course it should be obvious — does not mean that I don’t support the Palestinians and the Jews to live in peace, security, and prosperity.

    If nothing else, the dude who’s constantly whining about the evils of Christianity got an exhibit that other religions are equally toxic on their crazy right wings.

  87. 87.

    Matt McIrvin

    @cain: Hamas is a deeply awful and destructive government for Gaza, and since they started this round, there’s going to be this 9/11-like willingness to make allowances for anyone who attacks them.

    But I also get the definite feeling that that was exactly how Bibi Netanyahu liked it all along. That willingness to constantly crank up the tension to shore up his own popularity.

    (It’s a markedly different situation from Ukraine, where Ukraine’s great offense that provoked Putin to attack them was basically existing. Hard to bothsides that one unless you’re completely in the tank.)

  88. 88.

    Cacti

    @Suzanne: Israel doesn’t want a one state solution.  They want an ethno-religious Jewish state and that wouldn’t be possible if they annexed the occupied territories and gave the stateless population citizenship.

    They don’t want a two state solution either.

    They want Palestinians confined to a series of non-contiguous Bantustans, with Israeli control over their land borders, airspace, and water.  But they want to be able to call that a Palestinian state.

  89. 89.

    Jay

    @Alison Rose:

    3 Key rules for getting older,

    Stretch and limber up before doing anything strenuous like lifting heavy objects or putting on socks,

    Lift with your legs, not your back,

    Never trust a fart,

  90. 90.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Matt McIrvin: This got a lot of play in the days after the invasion. It’s not clear to me if it was generally known about in Israel before, or if someone leaked it since the attacks. The linked article is paywalled.

    @haaretzcom Oct 9

    “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” Netanyahu told his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019. “This is part of our strategy”

  91. 91.

    Suzanne

    @Cacti: There are plenty of Jews who recognize that the Palestinians either need full civil and human rights within Israel, or they need a state of their own. Those people are not in control of the Israeli government, but they are important.

    I’m tired of talking about civilians like they’re governments, and governments like they’re civilians. The Palestinians deserve better than Hamas and the Jews deserve better than Bibi Netanyahu and his bloodthirsty goons.

  92. 92.

    Geminid

    @Matt McIrvin: Netanyahu liked it right up until Saturday. Then Israelis paid a heavy price for his mistaken and self-interested actions. I doubt very much that he will be forgiven.

  95. 95.

    Scout211

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: OMG! I love it.

    Zach, who is taking a year off from his studies at the Northern University of Southern Florida, is well liked within the G.O.P. conference, insiders said.

    “Zach never screws up our coffee orders,” one Republican congressman said. “You couldn’t say the same for Kevin McCarthy.”

  96. 96.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Suzanne:

    I’m tired of talking about civilians like they’re governments, and governments like they’re civilians.

    I’ve heard the argument that in a democratic system, the two are one and the same–the people elected the government that is doing the bad thing–so it’s their fault and this isn’t a distinction you should be making.

    But the highest-profile proponent of that argument that I recall in recent decades was Osama bin Laden. Not the greatest company to keep.

  99. 99.

    bbleh

    @Ken: @WaterGirl: WG is correct.  It’s based on the number of Republican votes Jordan pulled in the last conference vote.  There hasn’t been a floor vote yet.

  100. 100.

    Suzanne

    @Matt McIrvin: Over half of us didn’t vote for TFG. I don’t want to be painted with that brush and so I don’t do it to others.

    I saw a statement purportedly made by a member of the Israeli emergency government saying essentially that Gaza doesn’t have civilians because they could have overthrown the government in a coup. I don’t want to link in case it’s fake. There’s a lot of misinfo out there. But if that’s real…. that’s terrifying.

  101. 101.

    Geminid

    @Freemark: Israel as run by Netanyah has had more than 25 public protests against his government, each numbering more than 100,000 people. If a Gazan attended a protest against Hamas they would have the crap beaten out of them. If they organized it, they would be executed.

  104. 104.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud: I think he’s far more popular in the Beltway than in Israel.

    His successful manipulation of the US political establishment over the last 25, 30 years?, especially since 9/11, is gobsmacking

  105. 105.

    eclare

    Not much to add, so glad we have Joe at the helm.  And he is deploying the assets he has, Blinken, Austin, etc.

  106. 106.

    CarolPW

    @Suzanne: She was asked first about messages from members of congress who seemed to be equating the Hamas terror attack with actions that were previously taken by Israel. And then she asked to clarify which members of congress, and the reply talked about calls for cease fires. Her answer about repugnant could be attributed to either the calumny about equating the Hamas and Israeli actions or about requesting a cease fire. I know which message think she meant was repugnant.

  108. 108.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Suzanne:

    I saw a statement purportedly made by a member of the Israeli emergency government saying essentially that Gaza doesn’t have civilians because they could have overthrown the government in a coup.

    I remember American warbloggers making that exact same argument about Iraqis in 2003. I didn’t particularly want to be held to a moral duty to rise up and overthrow Republican governments, myself.

  109. 109.

    Geminid

    @bbleh: Have you seen the speech Hakeem Jeffries gave in Janusry, 2019 when he nominsted the “Once and Fiture Speaker” Nancy Pelosi? If you are ever feeling low it will cheer you up. Jeffries had Pelosi grinning by the end.

    It’s available on YouTube, I believe.

  110. 110.

    Freemark

    @Geminid: They commit the identical evil Hamas has. The fact they don’t do it to Israelis makes it no less evil. Everything seen in Hamas’ attack on innocent Israelis has been done to innocent Palestinians by Israel. If we use the reasoning you give it would make Israel more evil, not less. Because Israelis could have rose up and stopped Netty without being killed and their families murdered.

    But my main point is there are no ‘good guys’ here. And right now Hamas and Israel are Yin and Yang.

  111. 111.

    Geminid

     

     

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I have often heard Republicans describe Netanyahu as “Churchillian.” I would laugh and say, “he looks more Chinchillian to me!”

    But from what I’ve read in Israeli media, every Israeli politician knows that Netanyahu is a self-interested liar. Even his own fellow Likud MKs and coalition partners know this. They backed him because he was their liar.

  114. 114.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Geminid: @Baud: I always say what Republicans learned from trump is what they could get away with. I think Bibi learned a lot of the same lessons, maybe too well

  116. 116.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: So I wouldn’t say this group wears the white hats, and that group wears the black hats. They all wear gray hats.

    But I may differ from some in that I see variations based on how constructive or destructive a politician is. For Instance, I would say that Gantz and Lapid are better than Netanyahu and the Shas leader. And Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are the worst of the lot.

    And I thought the last government was much better than this one, even if they did not solve the problem that no one else has for the past 56 years.

  119. 119.

    cain

    @Geminid:

    @cain: The leadership can run, but they might not be able to hide. And a lot of the fighters will stay, because they want to inflict heavy casualties on the IDF. They think they can do it too.

    Aren’t a bunch of the Hamas leadership hanging out in Doha? Just hanging out watching shit unfold.

  121. 121.

    cain

    @Cacti: I was reading a Times of Israel article and they basically said that Israel’s Mossad pretty much help fund Hamas back in the 80s as a way to go against the PLO. (who was considered a terrorist org) This seems like typical 80s foreign affairs shit – it’s like afghanistan all over again. I can’t help but think that Mossad took a page from the CIA or got similar advice that way.

    So Mossad starts up Hamas and then does the classic divide and conquer that we are seeing here. But both the Palestinian Authority and Hamas are failing – the west bank is slowly getting bulldozed by settlers – eventually west bank will be sent off to gaza or to some other camp.

    It’s no wonder that these folks resort to the kind of asymmetrical warfare.

  122. 122.

    SenyorDave

    @Cacti: They want Palestinians confined to a series of non-contiguous Bantustans, with Israeli control over their land borders, airspace, and water.  But they want to be able to call that a Palestinian state.

    This 1000%.  Since Bibi became PM Israel wants it all.  He now has his perfect cabinet, half of them are overt bigots.  The Palestinians are non-persons to the current Israeli government.  And we are complicit, we give Israel $4 billion a year so we actually could have leverage.

  123. 123.

    SenyorDave

    I don’t know where I read it (maybe here), but somone said the “bad” Palestinians are in Gaza, so they made it into a ghetto.  the “good” Palestinians are in the West Bank, so their reward is they only get their land stolen.  And an occasional burning of an olive grove by settlers while the police stand around and watch.

  124. 124.

    Bill Arnold

    @Shalimar:

    And they upped the ante with a proxy war in Ukraine in 2014 and we did nothing to respond. We’re still barely doing anything to respond.

    Russian ransomware crime organizations explicitly avoid targeting Russian targets, e.g. malware that bails if it find a Russian language keyboard layout. This is to avoid prosecution in Russia.
    Since most ransomware revenue is Russian[1], that means that Russian companies and government organizations are a business opportunity for enterprising ransomware criminals willing to risk offending The Bear.

    [1] 74% of ransomware revenue goes to Russia-linked hackers (14 February 2022) [2]
    [2] Note that this may simply mean that Russia is too poor to pay ransom. :-)

  125. 125.

    Freemark

    @Geminid: According to Haaretz Netanyahu said

    “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” the prime minister reportedly said at a 2019 meeting of his Likud party. “This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”

    And the reason Hamas’ attack was so ‘successful’ is because Netty had moved most of the southern IDF forces to the West Bank to protect illegal Israeli settlers that were murdering and pillaging there.

    It’s funny, in a very bad way. Most of Israel’s atrocities were committed in the West Bank to weaken the more moderate Fatah group that was willing to recognize Israel and negotiate peace. While Israel strengthened and supported the group that as part of its ‘constitution’ vowed no negotiation and the total destruction of Israel.

  127. 127.

    Geminid

    @cain: Israel certanly fostered Hamas as a rival to Fatah. But I would not say they “created” Hamas, which came out of the Muslim Brotherhood founded in the 1950s. That was an indigenous movement that was for a long time one of the two biggest foes of conservative Arab governments. The others were the secular liberation movements like Fatah.

    But Israel deserves blame for Hamas’s strength for aiding them, and even more so for creating the conditions of deprivation and despair in which Hamas has thrived.

  128. 128.

    Geminid

    @Freemark: I’m not so sure the Fatah group was willing to recognize Israel, even within its 1967 borders. That was a major sticking point with the Oslo Accords, which Fatah would not ratify.

  129. 129.

    Soprano2

    @Suzanne: I think a significant number of Israelis believe there are no Palestinian civilians, and that they are all complicit in the terrorism because they submit to Hamas rule. It would be as if you and I were blamed for Republicans and TFG because we didn’t overthrow them.  It’s unreasonable.

  130. 130.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @smith: And add 152 and 55 and I get 207, which is smaller than, and is NOT 217. So yeah, things seem still very up in the air.  When will they realize they can’t elect a speaker with only R votes, and someone comes to deal with Hakeem? I’m not holding my breath, but what else are they (eventually) going to do?

  131. 131.

    cain

    @Geminid:

    Thanks for the clarification. In the article, they said they gave money and resources to a specific cleric.

    Regardless, Israel took an approach to prop up Hamas and used it as a reason to keep Palestinian down. Of course, the death and destruction serves Hamas’s purpose as well to keep the population dependent on them.

  132. 132.

    bbleh

    @A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): they are going to bully and strong-arm, like the modern-day Nazis they are, and please don’t tell me you can’t see Gym Jordan in an SS uniform.

    Given that they didn’t all kowtow immediately when the Orange Oracle endorsed him, I retain some hope that he won’t get there.  But for right now, they’re gonna clench their fists and stomp their feet, and if that doesn’t work they’re gonna cry.  No way are they gonna get icky Democratic cooties.

  134. 134.

    Geminid

    @A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): Jake Sherman reloted a later vote,  head to hesd matchip of Jordan and Austen Scott. Jordan got 124 and Scott 81. That makes me think neither can win.

    Some of the anti-Jordan Reps are vehemently against him. With good reason, I think. He’s a disreputable man to have as the face of House Republicans. Jordan also seems somewhat mentally unstable. He is like vicious but stupid dog with a bone.

    This is the last thing Repiblicans need, but do they ever deserve it!

  136. 136.

    Jay

    @Hoppie:

    when you get older, you will experience a “shart”,

    It seems like a fart, but it’s not.

    You will need to change underwear.

  137. 137.

    Chris T.

    @Alison Rose: I threw my back out Wednesday night in my sleep.

    I’ve done it picking up a spoon in the dishwasher, and picking up a newspaper.

    Human back: crap design. If you believe in an intelligent designer, his/her/its IQ has got to be really low or he/she/it hates anyone over 35.

  138. 138.

    dirge

    @Chris T.:

    Just over 35?  Same asshole who designed your aging back was also behind your teenage endocrine system.  Given the apparent design goals of every other phase of your life, I can only assume that the purpose of the brief window of full function in your late 20’s is so you’ll be able to fully appreciate your later misery by way of contrast.

  139. 139.

    Nettoyeur

    @Cacti:  The American Founders knew about the dangers of theocracy or quasi theocracy from their British and European connections. That’s why the 1st Amendment us what it is. American Jews have strong connections to Israel, but this useful insight did not make it thru.

  140. 140.

    Geminid

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I get it. But they are very different, I think. For one thing, Netanyahu is much more intelligent. Trump’s a lightweight intellectually, and he’s lazy besides..

    But I was thinking more of the different party systems that they operate in, and condition their behavior and that of other of other actors.

  141. 141.

    Geminid

    @cain: I’ve read about Hamas leaders in Doha, but their senior leader on the political side lives in Istanbul along with some of the other leadership. Israel seems to accept this, and has improved their relations with the Erdogan government despite it. This is one reason I think Turkiye could end up playing an importatant role in ending this round of violence.

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