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You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Military / Veterans Day

Veterans Day

by | 160 Comments

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I tried to find this video somewhere besides twitter and could not.  It’s really great.  We have to win in 2024.

My dad was a veteran and he almost never talked about any details, but there was a special tone in his voice when he talked about his “Army buddies”.  My dad’s brother made it through the war, but he spent much of his life in mental institutions because they didn’t understand “shell shock”.

So much sacrifice, even if you don’t lose a life or a limb.  All who served deserve our thanks.

Imagine being a military family and hearing the total lack of respect that comes out of Donald Trump’s mouth, with respect to people who have served.

Reader Interactions

160Comments

  1. 1.

    Villago Delenda Est

    TFG doesn’t understand “smart”. He only understands “TFG”.  Traitors deserve no quarter.

  2. 2.

    Alison Rose

    Damn. Next time some intrepid reporter visits a swing state diner to let the yahoos blather about how much they still love Trump, they should play this ad for them and ask on camera why they hate the troops.

  4. 4.

    mrmoshpotato

    Imagine being a military family and hearing the total lack of respect that comes out of Donald Trump’s mouth disgusting orange fascist face, with respect to people who have served.

    Had to fix.  To Hell with Dump.

  8. 8.

    bbleh

    Well, but there were those very severe transient heel spurs — really very severe, the most severe kind, many people have said — very painful. Very severe, very painful.

  10. 10.

    WaterGirl

    I started this thread to honor veterans, and I ended up with a thread about Trump.  Help me out here, and maybe let’s switch the focus back?

  11. 11.

    twbrandt

    Kurt Vonnegut had this to say about November 11:

    I will come to a time in my backwards trip when November eleventh, accidentally my birthday, was a sacred day called Armistice Day. When I was a boy, and when Dwayne Hoover was a boy, all the people of all the nations which had fought in the First World War were silent during the eleventh minute of the eleventh hour of Armistice Day, which was the eleventh day of the eleventh month.

    It was during that minute in nineteen hundred and eighteen, that millions upon millions of human beings stopped butchering one another. I have talked to old men who were on battlefields during that minute. They have told me in one way or another that the sudden silence was the Voice of God. So we still have among us some men who can remember when God spoke clearly to mankind.

    Armistice Day has become Veterans’ Day. Armistice Day was sacred. Veterans’ Day is not.

    So I will throw Veterans’ Day over my shoulder. Armistice Day I will keep. I don’t want to throw away any sacred things.

    What else is sacred? Oh, Romeo and Juliet, for instance.

    And all music is.

  12. 12.

    mrmoshpotato

    @WaterGirl: Sorry.  Thinking about my Navy-vet grandfathers.  Glad I (and my brother and sister) were able to know both of them (and our grandmothers.)

  13. 13.

    JPL

    @Alison Rose: True!!

    Today trump bragged about his terrorist kill being bigger than Osama.   I would make him eat those words, by saying  REALLY!

    Today trump made fun of Paul Pelosi’s attack and I would quickly point out that not even you crazy uncle would do that on Thanksgiing.

    something is really off with trump and it needs to be pointed out often.   He’ll always be orange Hitler to me.

  14. 14.

    divF

    Veteran’s Day is a special day for my family. My father’s immigrant Italian father served in the US Army in WWI, and as a consequence became a US citizen. My father’s birthday was November 11, and he served 26 years in the Army, retiring as a MSgt. Grandpa is buried at the VA cemetery on Long Island, Dad’s grave is at Arlington (veteran of the WW II era, Korea, and Vietnam).

    When my father first met Madame divF, there was a little bit of a problem as to what she should call him. I’m named after him, so using his first name would be confusing. He finally suggested a name he had answered to for 20 years – “Sarge”. That tickled both of them.

  15. 15.

    hells littlest angel

    Imagine being a military family and hearing the total lack of respect that comes out of Donald Trump’s mouth, with respect to people who have served.

     

    And then imagine pretending you never heard it, and writing a check to that rotten motherfucker.

  18. 18.

    moonbat

    @twbrandt: I happened to be in London briefly earlier this week and had an interesting chat with a cab driver who was outraged that there were protests being planned for today —  Remembrance Day. Not that he thought that the issues being protested were not important, but he wanted that hour, that time for remembrance alone.
    I think to many people there it is still sacred.​
     

    ETA And, NO this was a real person! I don’t do Friedman safaris. lol

  19. 19.

    wjca

    “That guy is smart.  Why did he join the military?” — TIFG

    If you’re dumb enough to ask the question, you’re way too dumb to understand the answer.

  21. 21.

    TriassicSands

    Trump only needs the military to deploy at home to crush demonstrations, kill immigrants, and facilitate his next coup should prove necessary.

    He doesn’t need the military abroad because his “enemies” — democracies — aren’t going to attack us and all the dictators are his pals. Basically, he wants to use the military as his own personal militia.

  23. 23.

    Princess

    A) The clip in that video really shows how Trump has deteriorated since 2016

    B) This is a two-fer — it attacks Trump but it also implicitly highlights how Tuberville and the GOP as a whole aren’t standing up for the military. I expect this is the opening salvo of what will be a developing case making that point.

  24. 24.

    TriassicSands

    @WaterGirl:

    In the previous thread (not insane J. Cole’s) you mentioned a comment. I haven’t seen it. Can you tell me which thread it was in?

  25. 25.

    Alison Rose

    My dad’s father, Grandpa Walt, was in the Air Force and he really wanted to go overseas and (I’m probably wording this wrong) fly combat missions. But he was colorblind so they wouldn’t allow him to, and that crushed him. He stayed in the States and was a gunnery instructor and some other things, and he was proud of that, but I always felt bad for him that he didn’t get to do what he most wanted to.

  26. 26.

    WaterGirl

    @TriassicSands: In case you didn’t see my reply to you in the earlier thread:

    @TriassicSands: Oh, not to worry, my comment was totally in the spirit of yours!  Sorry that wasn’t clear.

    I have been wondering whether you saw what someone (maybe Another Scott?) added to the thread recently where you were telling us about your health condition.  The comment was added kind of late but it seemed important to me.

  34. 34.

    TriassicSands

    @twbrandt:

    With an all volunteer military, most people have no connection to it unless a family member serves. That’s a relatively small number. Therefore, there is no real connection to Veterans’ Day. (Or is it Veterans Day or Veteran’s Day? I think the plural form of veteran made possessive makes the most sense. ???)

  35. 35.

    gene108

    @Alison Rose:

    Next time some intrepid reporter visits a swing state diner to let the yahoos blather about how much they still love Trump, they should play this ad for them and ask on camera why they hate the troops.

    Jordan Klepper with “The Daily Show” did this sort of thing routinely, pointing out their logical inconsistency between what they say and what Trump does.

    Seen other people doing similar things on YouTube.

    Doesn’t have an impact on Trump supporters.

  36. 36.

    TriassicSands

    @WaterGirl:

    Don’t worry about it. You shouldn’t have to look for it. I will try to find it. Thank you.

    Now, I’m in the hospital for another total intestinal blockage due to Crohn’s disease. Today is day 8.

    I’ve had 3 N/G tubes inserted and removed. And there is a good chance I’ll get number 4 soon. For anyone who thought getting a COVID deep nasal swab was unpleasant, you really should try an N/G tube insertion. Not fun.

  37. 37.

    Hoppie

    My Dad tried to volunteer right after Pearl Harbor, and was rejected for poor eyesight.  Of course, he was drafted six months later, put in an anti-aircraft unit.

    He was in the North Africa, Sicily, Anzio, Salerno, and southern France landings.

    His anti-aircraft unit was the only one known in the history of warfare to sink a submarine, so far as I know.  Hushed up at the time, I can’t find any references.  The Germans had surrendered and been given safe passage into the Bay of Naples, but nobody thought to tell my Dad’s unit, high on the hills overlooking the Bay.

    In southern France they thought the war was effectively over; he was now a corporal and given charge of a village.  His first act was to consult the village elders, and then allow the “working girls” to, er, go back to work.

    Battle of the Bulge interrupted this idyll, where he got his third purple heart and was invalidated home.  He had a 10% disability the rest of his life.

    He was always disturbed by thunderstorms, which in southwestern Ohio  were not uncommon.

    My draft lottery year was 1970, and when my number came up 296 I dropped my student deferment for a lowish-risk year of eligibilty.

    I have always been amazed by his stories of mud, cold and misery slogging up the Italian peninsula, and hugely respect everyone who was part of that.

  40. 40.

    Jackie

    I just want to thank all our jackal veterans for serving. And my dad, a WWII vet.

    You all are heroes and heroines.

  41. 41.

    Boris Rasputin (the evil twin)

    My three uncles served in WWII. It made them officially Antifa, something the family was/is proud of.

  42. 42.

    MFA

    “Imagine being a military family and hearing the total lack of respect that comes out of Donald Trump’s mouth, with respect to people who have served.”

     

    …and, then, still voting for that bone-spurred weaselly motherf*er.

  43. 43.

    Mike in NC

    My dad enlisted in the Army in March 1942 and was sent to Hawaii, then Australia, and finally to New Guinea and the Philippines. He never made a big deal of his service, but when I was in high school we visited DC, and he insisted on a tour of Arlington National Cemetery and the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. My wife’s dad was drafted in 1942 and served in North Africa, Italy, and Germany. He became a career military police officer. Glad neither of them lived to see what an absolute fucking disgrace sat in the White House for four years.

  44. 44.

    TriassicSands

    @WaterGirl: I started this thread to honor veterans, and I ended up with a thread about Trump.

    I’m a veteran, but I’ve always preferred to have people NOT say “Thank you for your service.” Why? Among other reasons, because, first, I wasn”t in combat, and second, because I’m afraid those words have become boilerplate and they have no more real meaning for most people than the words “Hi, how are ya” mean when two acquaintances pass one another in the street.

    “How ya doin’. Thank you for your service.” (Yawn.)

    Thank people who suffered, face genuine risk, or lost something. They deserve it. I don’t.

  46. 46.

    VeniceRiley

    My grandfather served in WW1. My father in 2.

    Armistice day is a much bigger deal over here, and the news has been all over remembrance ceremonies vs Palestinian protest marches.

  47. 47.

    TriassicSands

    @zhena gogolia:

    Thank you. Unfortunately, getting better to the doctors means eventually my having surgery that I may never recover from.

    Getting better for me means an end to constant excruciating pain, raging diarrhea, and endless nausea and vomiting.

  48. 48.

    cain

    I really hated the whole “Support the Troops” car magnets. So many of them – but they won’t support veteran mental health or reduce funding. Troops are only important when they are in active theater but like babies once they are born they are just another thing that we don’t need to support with our tax dollars.

  49. 49.

    wjca

    @TriassicSands: With an all volunteer military, most people have no connection to it unless a family member serves. That’s a relatively small number.

    There are lots of merits to an all volunteer military.  But IMHO there is one glaring downside: we’ve lost the greatest tool we had for exposing young people to others of very different backgrounds.  Different economic circumstances.  Different races.  Different religions.  Different numbers of generations since their families arrived here.

    The military was, I think, hugely important in unifying the country.  Repeatedly, years later, you’d see someone on the news and, instead of thinking “He’s weird.  Is he even a real American?” you’d think “Hey, I had an Army buddy like that.”  And I use the term “real American” deliberately.  You never heard that kind of bullsh*t back in the Golden Age that was the middle of the last century.

    /s

  50. 50.

    JPL

    @TriassicSands: Well I always admired someone who was in public service, which you were.     Accept the thanks as a way to acknowledge your public service. .

    I also acknowledge that not all those that served deserve thanks.

  51. 51.

    Dan B

    I had an employee, a big strong straight guy, who had PTSD from Gulf War 1.  I got a call from the King County jail 9ne morning.  Hed been drinking, druving and acting out.  We didn’t know about PTSD at the time.  I hope he got help.  Some wounds are not visible.

  52. 52.

    dexwood

    @TriassicSands: You’ve hit on something my good friend, a Vietnam vet with a purple heart says. He hates “thank you for your service”. Thinks it’s no better than “thoughts and prayers” these days.

  53. 53.

    Betty Cracker

    Bill served in the USAF, but he had the cushiest of jobs — playing piano at fancy NATO shindigs in European capitals for generals, heads of state and monarchs. He joined the service at 18 expecting to be regular old cannon fodder, but someone important heard him play in the rec room at a base in Biloxi and offered him a spot in the Air Force band. He scoffs when thanked for his service.

  55. 55.

    BethanyAnne

    My great uncle was in Pearl Harbor during the attack. He never really recovered, and ended up drinking himself to death.

    On the other side of the family, Great Uncle H.E. (Everyone just called him those letters, they weren’t even short for his names.) went in early and dropped on Normandy. Came home with a French bride in tow.

  57. 57.

    TriassicSands

    @dexwood:

    Yes, and despite the war he was in (not his fault), he sacrificed something more than just time and risked something far more. He can be, should be thanked, but it should be sincere with actual thought behind the words.

  63. 63.

    piratedan

    @TriassicSands: I completely get it… my Dad was in the AF overseas between Korea and Vietnam, serving in places where it was “far from friendly”.  He made it a point to never glorify what he did.  He said he served, it was a two way street, it got him out of the mines of West Virginia, in return he worked a job for them and when he was done with his eight, he was happy to pack his bag and start a life with more skills than when he went in with.

    Everyone who serves deserves respect, but the GOP has cheapened it with all of this bs faux patriotism.  For a good number of people its a path from someplace shitty to something better, a place to get an education, learn a skill, perhaps even travel or make it a career.

    Could we treat our vets better, yes we can, yet even that has been politicized somehow.

  64. 64.

    Scout211

    @divF: Veteran’s Day is a special day for my family. My father’s immigrant Italian father served in the US Army in WWI, and as a consequence became a US citizen.

    That’s wonderful. 😊

    That was one good thing (among too many bad things) about the Dubya wars.  My SIL was able to become a US citizen because he enlisted in the military and served several tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.  They flew him to Colorado where he was sworn in as a US citizen after being in the US for less than two years.  He served for almost 10 years and is now in the reserves.

  65. 65.

    wjca

    I was in a discussion (on another blog/forum) and took exception to the ranting of some warmongering RWNJ.  His response was to suggest that my opinion was worthless, since I’d obviously never been in the military.  It was amusing to point out that I had a commission as a 2nd lieutenant and an honorable discharge, both of which suggested that he didn’t know what he was talking about on that score either.   (I refrained from mentioning that they were utterly irrelevant to the subject under discussion.)

    He wrote an immediate “Thank you for your service” and disappeared.  That’s the only time I’ve been happy to hear it.

  67. 67.

    Dan B

    A classmate had polio and went through physical therapy.  He got very muscular for an eighth grader.  He stepped on a mine in Vietnam and lost both legs.  He won the Boston Marathon in his wheelchair.  He became very bitter, unfortunately.  At least he had a wife and kids.

  68. 68.

    TriassicSands

    @wjca:

    Rather than have everyone serve in the military to learn about others, I’ve always fantasized about a program in which when a child is born, an investment is made in her or his name. When the person reaches a certain age (maybe 18-21) the money is available for use to travel to any reasonable destination around the world. But there is an exception. Americans can’t go to other native English-speaking countries. While there is something to be learned from visiting Great Britain or Australia, it’s not the same as going to a country with a totally different history and culture.

    I think one of the problems many Americans have is that they have never seen another culture. Many have never traveled anywhere outside the U.S. and live their entire lives near where they were born. Visiting a truly different culture could be an eye  opener. While some European countries are not that dissimilar to the U.S., seeing the differences there can still cause a thoughtful person to reevaluate. The first time I went to Europe, it took less than two weeks for me to see that they did many things far better than the United States. My whole life I’d heard nothing but “This is the greatest country on earth.” Other cultures can teach us lessons, and war could have benefits, but it could also create problems. For example, if you serve in  a country where every civilian might try to kill you and you come home and enter law enforcement, you might view everyone as a threat and the more different they are from you, the more of a threat they will be. Not good.

    Gotta go — nurses calling…

  69. 69.

    Tony Jay

    @moonbat:

    a cab driver who was outraged that there were protests being planned for today —  Remembrance Day

    Except – and this is the important bit to keep no mind – today isn’t Remembrance Day. Today is Armistice Day, the day everyone normally forgets about that celebrates the fact that wars end and peace breaks out.

    The reason your cabbie acquaintance was confused over the meaning of today is because the Tories in particular and the Right in general have been deliberately and very, very cynically trying to conflate the two days, and they’ve been doing that because today, the day of Peace, is the day of the March calling for a ceasefire in Gaza and a wider peace for Palestine.

    What they wanted, because they’re horrible bastards, is for people to believe that there was a mob of antisemitic terrorist lovers coming to London to damage the Cenotaph, attack old men selling poppies and generally ‘express hatred for the sacrifices of our brave veterans’. Sunak threatened to ban it, until the Police told him there were no grounds at all for a ban, then the scumbag Home Secretary Suella Braverman called it a ‘hate March’, accused the Metropolitan Police of being biased towards ‘Leftist’ demonstrators and called on far-Right thugs to come and ‘defend the Cenotaph’.

    And what happened today? Hundreds of thousands of people – Christians, Muslims, Jews, Atheists, probably a few Pastafarians thrown in too – marched peacefully through London for hours with zero arrests while a few hundred pissed up racist thugs took the Home Secretary up on her invitation and attacked the Police around the Cenotaph, leading to almost a hundred arrests.

    Since the March ended there have been a few (a very few) bandwagon-jumping ‘enthusiasts’ arrested for staging unauthorised sit-ins at underground stations, slimy Tory prick Michael Gove has been seen and shouted at, and the usual suspects in the Anti-Occupation = Anti-Semitism industry have been frantically attempting to smear the entire March as an antisemitic event because heaven forbid anyone dare to think of Palestinians as human beings with rights, don’t they know that was banned in Britain somewhere between 2016 and 2019?

    The Tories are going to try and pretend that neo-Nazis assaulting the Police and people carrying banners ‘that some people have claimed might offend’ are equivalent, but it’s not going to work. Footage of the Right acting like the filth they are was all over the News earlier today, and that’s going to be the abiding memory of this Armistice Day.

    Which isn’t Remembrance Day. That’s tomorrow.

  70. 70.

    TriassicSands

    @piratedan:

    A brief delay, but I might have to stop mid-sentence.

    When I was in the military (pre-volunteer), the people I felt most sorry for were those who joined because they had no prospects in civilian life and in the military they had never had it so good. It was good that they had an opportunity in the military, but sad that they had such meager prospects as a civilian.

  71. 71.

    persistentilluion

    @Alison Rose: My dad had a similar story.  Taught to fly by the WPA, volunteered, discovered he was color-blind. Stationed in Morocco, he was taught golf by the local sheik who had attended U Chicago as had my dad. Easy war as so many didn’t have.

    ETA corrected tense as hes been gone awhile.

  72. 72.

    TriassicSands

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Thank you, Dorothy, but instead of your sympathy, send me all your money!

    Just kidding.

    Years ago I had a cat that developed pemphigus foliaceous, and autoimmune disease that ultimately would have killed her without treatment. I took her to a veterinary dermatologist and he made the diagnosis after doing a biopsy. While I waited for him to perform the biopsy, I went to a local library and looked up pemphigus. By the time I was finished it had been hammered home that there are countless horrible diseases we generally never hear about. And people and animals suffer from them, sometimes only small numbers, but the suffering can be huge.

    Crohn’s is far from the worst possible disease in the world, but there is nothing good about it. The details can be pretty sad. I’ve been on seven different medications and none have worked. The cost of those medications? Some are fairly inexpensive. That is two of the meds I’ve taken. The most expensive was $528,000/yr (for the dose I ended up on), from there $250K/yr; $240K/yr; and two at about $150K/yr. The one I am on now is $428 for each tablet, taken every day. Obviously, I couldn’t pay for all that.

  74. 74.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    My wife and I have family who served our country all of the way back to the founding our nation. Some, like my wife’s Uncle Herbert who she never met, gave their all as he and his fellow airmen did in the skies over Europe in 1944. They are not “suckers”, they are our heroes. TFG is too stupid to realize the reason he is free to be the rich asshole he is is because of the men and women who have served our nation, many giving their lives in doing so.

    It is disgusting to me that so many of my fellow Americans think that orange asshole is fit to lead our military and nation and that the Republican party is owned by the orange bastard. What a bunch of sick people.

  76. 76.

    WaterGirl

    @TriassicSands:  I can’t recall which thread it was, but either yesterday or today Anne Laurie had a great tweet that showed our Secretary of State speaking french with an 8-year-old boy who asked him a question.

    Anthony Blinken seems to feel that having lived in France when he was a boy had a great deal of influence on him

    It’s an awesome couple of minutes of video.

  80. 80.

    Ruckus

    @JPL:

    SFB is a very immature spoiled brat who has lived way past his sell by date. Considering his siblings, I’d say the person that spoiled him is him. And he really never learned anything reasonable because he’s the one that taught – him. If you think I’m not being realistic, think of his kids.

    He thinks he’s top shit because he knows how to lie about – everything. Thing is that with him as his teacher and personality director, the outcome really shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.

  81. 81.

    Almost Retired

    @Betty Cracker:  Love that!  My Dad was drafted during the Korean War and expected to be cannon fodder as well.  But he had some rudimentary medical training and halting German language skills, so he was sent to occupied Berlin as a medic.  Cushy posting, largely because he mostly treated soldiers for ailments acquired after encounters with the frauleins.  By then the non-fraternization policy had given way to the 50s version of don’t ask don’t tell.  He was referred to as the “pecker checker.”  Not exactly the stuff of Saving Private Ryan.

  82. 82.

    Jay

    @Tony Jay:

    the Beeb says 92 Reichwingers arrested, the Gruniad says 126.

    Every Saturday since the war started, there is a “Peace March” in London, it starts at noon, and the route avoids the Cenotaph, the US and Israeli Embassies and religious and educational sites.

  83. 83.

    dexwood

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:  My wife has family who served their Pueblo tribes since before the founding of our country. True, but just fucking with you in a good natured way. Seriously, the vets in her family who enlisted for WW2, Korea, and Vietnam is amazing. 

  84. 84.

    Tony Jay

    @Geminid:

    The Tories have literally nothing left in the tank but Culture War issues, and they know how sensitive the Nu-New Labour leadership are to anything that highlights the devil’s bargain it made with the pro-Likud Lobby to destroy the previous leadership’s election chances.

    None of them are coming out of this looking good, but the Tories are so wedged in by their need to fellate the extremists that they’re stepping on rakes whatever they do.

    Tiny violins.

  85. 85.

    Tony Jay

    @Jay:

    I think the FTF Guardian figure includes people from the March who got themselves arrested after it finished and everyone was supposed to go home. 

  86. 86.

    Dan B

    @WaterGirl: Whenever I read about the number of seriously wounded I think of Ken.  He’s had a tough life since his twenties.  50+ years.  That’s what seriously wounded usually means.

  87. 87.

    Alison Rose

    May I ask of the vets here, with no intent to seem combative because I totally get not liking the generic thank-you comment: Is there something that would be more appropriate/less bland for someone to say in a casual situation, e.g. you’re loading your car in the grocery store parking lot and you have a sticker on the bumper from your branch of the military and another shopper passes by and wants to say something, or a coworker you don’t work directly with and don’t know well, etc etc? Is there a way for civilians to acknowledge it that doesn’t chafe, or is it perhaps preferred, at least by some of you, that we don’t act on the urge to acknowledge (which I could completely understand)?

  89. 89.

    prostratedragon

    Caught a nice little Veterans Day tribute on TCM. It featured testimonies from actual vets and currently serving, interspersed with illustrative movie clips. In one clip, Sergeant says roughly, “Don’t ever let anyone call you a sucker for fighting the Nazis.” There’s also the fellow in The Best Years of Our Luves, played by Ray Teal, who got his ass beat for expressing similar sentiments. Presumably there is some real world basis for these scenes. TFG is not even original; we’ve heard his nonsense before.

  92. 92.

    zhena gogolia

    @Alison Rose: Good question. I have a dear friend whose daughter served in Afghanistan and elsewhere, and I used to put that on her birthday cards, but now I think I was putting my foot in my mouth all those years.

  94. 94.

    Yutsano

    I was a Navy brat from the day I was born until a month after I graduated high school. My dad was a boomer on subs for about half my childhood, then he took some teaching gigs in Bremerton which is where we stayed until I was done. There are still things that happened on his boats that he still can’t talk about to this day although he did mention once that he got so close to a Russian sub that they were about 3-4 meters apart. He’s still the biggest vet in my life.

  95. 95.

    NorthLeft

    Maybe the polling sucks, but doesn’t Trump, and Republicans in general, get the majority of votes among soldiers, ex-soldiers, and their families?

  96. 96.

    CarolPW

    @TriassicSands: The last time for me they got it into my lung, twice. And were irritated that I was making too much noise for them to tell with their stethoscope if they were in the right place. No you fucker, I am not shrieking because I am upset, that is what it sounds like when you are trying to breathe with a NG tube in your lung.

  97. 97.

    TriassicSands

    @Alison Rose:

    I think most veterans would agree that thank yous are not as important, for those who have been injured, as getting the best care possible. I lost nothing during my time in the service except 3 years. Others have given far more and carry that with them their entire lives.

    I would say, from my perspective, that casual thanks are neither necessary nor convincing (allowing that some people may be sincere). I was in the military a long time ago and the thanks I got was the GI bill that helped me complete college (of course, I still had to work three separate part time jobs — 52 hours/week) while going to school full time). One of the jobs paid almost nothing, but it was reading to blind students and that was its own reward. I met some wonderful people. I had to read the course materials to them — they took notes in braille — and then administer their tests.

    Two of them, young men the same age, were both blind for the same reason and among the last Americans made blind by receiving too much oxygen as premature babies. The campus was huge and complex and they both navigated it with their white canes. Whenever I saw someone with a cane, I would ask if they wanted to take my arm. The blind students I worked with said that was what I could do. One of them had asked directions and “as a joke” the students gave him bogus directions and he got lost. Pretty funny, huh?

  101. 101.

    TriassicSands

    @CarolPW:

    Gee, thanks for that horror story. Now, I’m going to hide under the bed if they come at with another N/G tube.

    I’m trying to figure out the utility of having your lung “drained” when the problem is in your stomach.

    That sounds brutal.

  102. 102.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @NorthLeft:

    doesn’t Trump, and Republicans in general, get the majority of votes among soldiers, ex-soldiers, and their families?

    I haven’t seen the numbers lately, but apparently that has been changing over the years and Trump got less than Biden.

  103. 103.

    Haydnseek

    Coming out of commenting hibernation to comment on this. It’s important to me. My dad was living the life in Los Angeles when they tore his little playhouse down when he got that letter with the salutation “Greetings…” He was assigned to Scott Field, now Scott AFB. The entire facility was used to train aircraft mechanics and radio operators. He was sent to England as a radio operator as part of a C-47 flight crew.They went in the night before D-Day, dropping supplies. The Germans had a fuckton of 88mm anti-aircraft guns and seemingly unlimited ammo. Their gunners would put up a thick cloud of flak and the formation had no choice but to fly right into it, with often tragic results. That’s why they had so many planes on these missions.​
    ​
    ​

  104. 104.

    surfk9

    My father enlisted after Pearl Harbor, he wanted to be a fighter pilot. His vision was not good enough for being a pilot so they made him an aircraft mechanic, Then they had him become a tank mechanic because they used aircraft engines in tanks at that time. He went to Europe and fought under Patton. He loved being a soldier and a tanker. He went on to serve in Korea and in Vietnam.. Late in life he came down with Parkinson’s of which he later died. He died sixteen years ago today. All of my family knew that he must of held on just to make it to Veterans Day

  105. 105.

    raven

    @TriassicSands: I also think this “hero” shit rubs so many vets the wrong way . The logistical tail always wags the dog and it’s embarrassing to hear that and all the “sacrifice” stuff all the time. Yea, it sucked and sometimes even remf’s got hurt but nothing like the dudes in the shit.

  106. 106.

    WaterGirl

    @NorthLeft: Vote Vets has been hitting them really hard in recent months.

    To answer your question, I can’t say definitively, or even point to a source, but I have read that vets religiously voting R has not been true in the most recent elections.

    But I will defer to anyone who can point to real data.

  107. 107.

    John S.

    My uncle was a Vietnam vet. He served multiple tours of duty as a sergeant in the Army. He was shot and left wounded on the battlefield for 2 days before they found him. Unfortunately, during that time agent orange was dropped on a nearby area and between all the rain and runoff, it got into his system.

    He spent decades fighting the government (just like the burn pit folks are doing now) until Clinton finally acknowledged how damaging agent orange was, and he was put on 100% disability. He lived for many years with all sorts of problems as a result of the agent orange, until he finally passed away last year.

    @WaterGirl:

    He was very active in the VA his entire post-military life, and a fierce Democrat. He could never understand how anyone in the military (or their families) could ever vote for Republicans.

  108. 108.

    Alison Rose

    @TriassicSands: I imagine some folks say it because they think they “should” even if that means it comes across as a bit hollow.

    I do think it usually comes from a place of good intentions, but I think people need to learn the notion that intent is not magic.

  109. 109.

    raven

    @John S.: I was in Korea before I went to Vietnam and, about 10 years ago, they finally admitted they used AO there as well (duh, why would the have not). One of the weird things about being in the rear is that they used it to clear the perimeters of the larger installations. If the thunder don’t get ya the lighting will!

  110. 110.

    Haydnseek

    Well, I had more to say but my comment went all cattywampus.  I’ll just end it by saying thanks for all you did, and I will always thank my dad on this day.  I can’t imaging the terror the aircrews on these missions felt.  I’m not sure I could do it.  Thanks to guys who did, I don’t have to.  Thank You All…….

  112. 112.

    Soprano2

    My husband did a rubbing of a name on the Wall when we went to Washington, D.C. I asked him about it; all he would say was he was a good man who died too soon. He talks about his service, but I’m sure there are things he hasn’t told me.

  113. 113.

    raven

    @Haydnseek: Did you watch the Ken Burns “The War”. There were more air crew members killed in Europe than Marines in the Pacific and those dudes just kept flying.

  116. 116.

    Ruckus

    @TriassicSands:

    In my generation, I was born shortly after WWII, it was somewhat unusual that males in the parents generation weren’t in the military. My grandparents were born in the 1800s and were too old for WWI.

  119. 119.

    CarolPW

    @TriassicSands: ​
     I have the impression you are a guy, and not thus an hysterical woman overreacting to an uncomfortable procedure. So I think they would take the fucking thing out right away if you started sounding like that. The first time it happened (in my previous ER visit), they took it right out and it was creepy but not terrible. They got it in the right place the next time. The most recent time the idiots had no idea what they were doing. Even when they get it in the right place it is very much like what I imaging being waterboarded to feel like, and you have all my sympathy. I suspect if there is a next time they will have to sedate me to get the damned thing in.

  120. 120.

    Haydnseek

    I didn’t see it but I will, somehow. I re-watch episode 2 of Band Of Brothers every veterans day. That’s the one with C-37’s being blown out of the sky and going down in flames. I can’t even think about my dad in one of those planes, yet they went up time after time. He would never use the word hero, but he sure as shit qualifies.

  122. 122.

    Miki

    Whoo boy ….

    My great-great grandfather and his brother served in the US – Dakota War in 1862 and witnessed the hanging of 38 Dakota men in Mankato then marched south and fought in the Battle of Nashville where John was shot in the leg and ultimately lost that leg, but went on to father 12 children.

    My dad’s dad joined the Army in 1917, survived the influenza pandemic in basic training, and was shipped off to France, but didn’t see action because the war ended about the time he landed. @25+ years later the  same man enlisted in the Navy as a Sea Bee and served in the South Pacific for 2 years.

    My dad and his brother enlisted and served in the late 40s, after WWII ended and before the Korean War started.

    My Grandpa’s first grandchild – my cousin Gary – enlisted in the Army in 1966, landed in South Vietnam, and was blown up 26 days later.

    I enlisted in 1974 (96B2LGM, German language qualified Intelligence Analyst), and served in the ROK from January 1976 through November 1977. No combat but some scary, stupid shit. Have I mentioned I am a girl? More scary, stupid shit, let me tell you.

    My brother was in the Sea Bees from 1975 – 1978.

    The generation after me has a few lifers still serving.

    I haven’t responded to a single “Thank you for your service” post today. I hate the implication that my service and my family’s service has something to do with a flagpole up our asses.

    Au contraire. The random dumb luck that landed my family in the US of A with its constitutional promise of equality gave each of us a chance for a good life in spite of our station in life, our religions, our gender, etc. (I’m white so the race privileges are baked in.)

    For me, anyway, my service was largely fueled by gratitude.

    And the GI Bill.

     

    It’s so much more than that.

  123. 123.

    Ruckus

    @Jackie:

    I wasn’t a hero for serving. Nor were many of the men I served with. We did because being drafted could be so much worse. I know some that are and I use the VA so I’ve met my fair share of people, one I’ve seen lost both legs and has the most unusual aftermarket legs. Two aluminum tubes solidly attached to his pelvis so to walk he swings one tube forward by slightly twisting to the opposite side while lifting his leg then the same movement from the opposite side. No knees. I was in the VA coffee shop eating lunch one day about 2 yrs ago and every one in the room went completely quiet and looked past me and then this fella walked by me, his head was about my height sitting down and he had the biggest shit eating grin I’ve ever seen, walking on these short “legs.” He couldn’t walk fast but he was walking and I bet he thought he never would. Would have to drive with hand controls but he was mobile.

  124. 124.

    Geminid

    @WaterGirl: The ad you featured in the post brought to mind something I read yesterday: that Joe Biden and his people intend to make support of military veterans a theme of next year’s campaign.

    It looks like they have started already. This Joe Biden campaign will be different than the last one in that it is well-funded 13 months in advance. Last time they did not achieve funding parity with the other campaign until 10 weeks before the election.

  126. 126.

    Matt McIrvin

    @JPL:

    Today trump made fun of Paul Pelosi’s attack and I would quickly point out that not even you crazy uncle would do that on Thanksgiing.

    Crazy uncle wants to, though, but he knows he can’t get away with saying that shit but Trump is so big and powerful that he can. That’s why crazy uncle likes Trump so much. He thinks Trump “says what everyone is thinking” because it’s what he’s thinking.

  127. 127.

    sab

    My dad’s nurse’s aide sent us a picture of Dad in his nursing home with a certificate in his lap listing his service. Hejust turned 99.

    He joined the Navy after high school (1942), but they sent him to medical school instead of combat. After WWII he signed up for the Air Force when the Korean War started and he spent his war as a medical officer in Korea. He never talked much about his military service, but he remained in the reserves for twenty years because he felt he owed it to others who had much more difficult service. He worked with medical areas such as bloodbanks as part of his reserve service.

  128. 128.

    stinger

    @Alison Rose: Maybe “Go Army!” (or whatever the branch indicated)? Maybe the bumper sticker is because their daughter or son is in the service, so “Thank you for your service” wouldn’t even apply. I don’t generally address strangers on the contents of their car bumper stickers. But then I’m pretty reserved.

    For someone you know at work, with whom you have time for a slightly longer conversation, you could say, “Tell me about your service. Where were you stationed? What kind of work did you do? Did you serve any overseas tours?”

    And thank you, Alison Rose, for your considerate question!

  129. 129.

    TriassicSands

    @CarolPW:

    Oh, you hysterical women, man up willya?

    The health care system has long been biased toward men and the majority of doctors are men, as well. Women and men can be very different (see female heart attacks) and male doctors using male studies completes the “joke.” Fortunately, today, we’re seeing more and more female doctors. If I make it to surgery, my surgeon will be a woman.

    I am a “guy” and without going into my background, I, according to nurses and doctors, tolerate the suffering better than most. But having an N/G tube in my lung sounds horrifying. The second tube irritated my nasal passage and caused bleeding. I tried to swallow an important medication — extra large pill — and it got caught in my throat, dissolved, and left me with the worst sore throat I’ve ever had. The pain radiated out until my entire face was excruciating and for dessert I got a terrible headache. Fortunately, with the help of pain medication that resolved itself, but I had them wait an extra day to remove the tube, because I was concerned that if things didn’t go well, they would have to put another one in. I would have postponed the removal yet another day, but they were confident things would go well once the tube was removed. They didn’t and now we’re doing other things to solve another problem, but eventually they will probably have to put in another tube. Fun, fun, fun

    ETA: Maybe they should sedate you the next time and then take the Xray to make sure it is in the right place. Then, wake you up.

  130. 130.

    Ruckus

    @Alison Rose:

    I don’t mind the thank you for your service comment but I also really don’t mind not getting it and any more than that just seems over the top. That is not to say some don’t deserve it but I think it’s something that is difficult to explain to someone that hasn’t served. Most of us didn’t loose limbs or body parts, not everyone got shot at or even served in a war zone. Some walk away physically unharmed from horrible situations, others lose everything and all levels inbetween. As I say above I use the VA and I see and have sat and talked with others, my age or slightly older and all the way to much younger, as in grand children age. And both men and women. The jobs, the things they’ve seen, the pain they endured is different for everyone. There is no rhyme or reason. If it’s a part of one’s life and until one is too old or feeble to remember their name it will always be with a person, hopefully in the background at most, but not everyone is that lucky.

  134. 134.

    Alison Rose

    @Ruckus:

    I don’t mind the thank you for your service comment but I also really don’t mind not getting it

    I think that second part is what a lot of us non-military folks need to get. It’s not rude or disrespectful if we don’t acknowledge it in some passing sense. I would imagine someone who had served and expected to get thanks all the time would be seen by others in the military as a bit of a jackass.

  135. 135.

    J

    My Dad served for the entire duration of the U.S. involvement in the European theater, from Operation Torch in N. Africa in ’42 to the invasion of Germany, with Italy and France in bertween. He lived to a ripe old age, but I miss him dearly. While laid up with the flu (or covid?) a few weeks ago, I watched many old favorites, including Powell & Pressburger’s ‘A Matter of Life & Death’ (made at the end of the war). A very brief summary for those who don’t know it: doomed pilot David Niven bails out of disintegrating bomber over the N. Sea without a parachute after conversing by radio with Kim Hunter. But there was a slip up in heaven; though scheduled to die, he didn’t. He and KIm Hunter meet and fall in love, but he should be dead. An angel is sent to collect him. There follows a trial in heaven: should he be granted a reprieve? There is a huge audience for the trial (everyone in heaven). During this viewing, I noticed just how large a part of the audience for the trial is made up of young men and women–the war dead in the forces. A brilliant, subtle and moving touch.

  136. 136.

    Matt McIrvin

    My grandfather was apparently one of the troops at the liberation of Dachau.

    He didn’t talk about it. To me, at least.

  137. 137.

    Miss Bianca

    @BethanyAnne: My grandfather was a Marine one-star and barracks commander at Pearl Harbor. During the attack, however, he was out on maneuvers thousands of miles away. My grandmother, however, was there and had to evacuate in a prop plane.

    My father enlisted at age 16 shortly thereafter (my grandmother was apparently mad at him about this – not because he’d enlisted, but because by lying about his age he had rendered himself illegitimate!).

  138. 138.

    Ben Cisco

     

    @Alison Rose:

    @Ruckus:

    This sums up my feelings on the subject perfectly.

    The 4th generation of my family to serve is currently serving with the Red Tails down Montgomery way. Also enrolled at UA. My grandfather (Army) and his twin brother (Navy) both served during WWII. My dad’s brother (Army) in the post-Vietnam era. I was Air Force and retired in the mid-nineties.

  139. 139.

    SFBayAreaGal

    My dad served in the Pacific in WWII. Was part of the liberation of the Phillipines from Japanese. He mentioned a few times the horror he saw. He also talked about how kind and warm the Filipinos were to him and the troops.

  141. 141.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @dexwood:

    Late reply but I was going to say that my wife and I have family that fought in the Indian wars prior to the founding of our nation…lol!

    Yeah, the number of family members who have joined one of the services is huge in our families. My wife’s paternal uncles all served in WWII except for her father, who built B-24s during the war. My Mom’s only brother served in Korea and his son in Vietnam.

    Service is a part of our nation and every single one of them are our heroes. Trump is the sucker and loser, not them.

  142. 142.

    Neal Schier

    I left the IT world in the mid 1980s to become an Air Force pilot. I flew a transporter, the C-141, and thus never had much direct combat exposure— the closest real danger was a near mid-air collision with a British fighter jet.

    Among the many things that my experience taught me was the incredibly deep well of respect that I have for the enlisted men and women who, by their sweat and effort and bravery, are the backbone of our military.

    I stayed in the Reserves until the 27 year point but was flying a desk since 2001 and I can assure you that 99% of the time I felt that I should be saluting the enlisted troops instead of the other way around.

    I know that older folk grow sentimental about their service time and engage in a lot of hagiography regarding the troops, but they worked really really really hard and I am, and always will be, grateful for their dedication and, yes, love of country.

    Now extend that to those young men and women who were really in the thick of it after 9/11. Suddenly you had logistic troops running a gauntlet of roadside IEDs. Army combat arms honchos at a firebase in Afghanistan. Marines in Iraq.

    Look, I think Bush made a colossal error in Gulf War version II, and so I believe our fine young men and women were victims of a geo-political con game of sorts. But we never, and I mean never, should let slip from our minds that we asked young people, frightfully young in fact, to do our nation’s fighting work and for that I salute them.

    One last point. One day I had John McCain on one of my airline flights. It was a transatlantic crossing and so I had time, mid-flight, to go back and chat. While I am not a Republican, I admire that he passed up the chance to be released early as a POW. I don’t know if I could have done the same. To me, he was a winner of the sort that Trump could never imagine. McCain was a hero when Fate tapped him on the shoulder and put him to the test.

  143. 143.

    wjca

    @NorthLeft: Maybe the polling sucks, but doesn’t Trump, and Republicans in general, get the majority of votes among soldiers, ex-soldiers, and their families?

    In the late 1960s, the folks opposing the War in Vietnam were loudly liberal/progressive/left wing/etc.  That image of the left solidified in the military, and has endured.  Reinforced by the tendency of some on the left to reflexively denounce those they disagree with as “militarists”.

    Since at least the 1980s, the Democrats have been the more liberal party.  Which, in turn, pushes the military, veterans, their families, etc., towards the Republicans — who likes being denounced, after all?  A tendency which Republican politicians are all too happy to exploit.

    Whether Tuberville will manage to singlehandedly turn that around remains to be seen.  (I expect it depends on how long the GOP acts like it’s OK with his antics.)  But he’s certainly giving it his best shot.

  144. 144.

    wjca

    @Frankensteinbeck: I haven’t seen the numbers lately, but apparently that has been changing over the years and Trump got less than Biden.

    I hadn’t heard that.  But if so, I’m delighted. Of course, the military runs younger than voters generally.  But whatever the reason, it’s a good trend to see.

  147. 147.

    Ironcity

    As a child from the 50s my draft number came up in 1972 and it was 290+, my usual luck in lotteries thank goodness.  I did 2 years of Army ROTC in college to meet the PE requirement of the engineering school (how quaint).  Graduating into the shitiest engineer job market in decades I went to work for the Navy in aviation.  My only other realistic offer was with the Labor Department inspecting mines and a few months after starting at the Navy I see the small newspaper article, inside page, about some new mine inspectors being shown the ropes being killed in a cave-in where I would have been working.

    My father served in WW II in the Army Signal Corps including 18 months in the Aleutian Islands.  Not combat dangerous, but you had to stay warm and not get eaten by bears.  And they sent a fair number of people back to civilization in rubber airplanes with the 1000 yard, or Aleutian, stare.  Had one uncle wounded in action, always walked with the cane.  Another that ran a PX near Paris who of course became an engineer and his brother who was an aircraft mechanic  became a manager with a food company.  Growing up many of the men that were the fathers in the neighborhood were in the military in WW II.  One aircraft mechanic in Panama, another 2LT in Korea somewhere, another B-24 top turret gunner shot down by a German jet fighter and interned in Sweden.  He was the only one that ever said much about it and that was only once or twice in 15 or so years, it took the 4 th of July  (or was in Memorial Day)  neighborhood BBQ and a few more beers than usual.  And 2 ladies in the neighborhood were WASPs who didn’t say much about their experiences either.  I got the impression that everyone just did what they did and came back if they could and just kept on keeping on.   People I worked with at the Navy, civilian and military, were the same.  I worked with many Vietnam era aviators (several the reluctant guests of the North Vietnamese) and technicians and they were normal people really, just more mission oriented generally and more ready to do what had to be done.

    As an over-paid under-worked civil servant  (thanks Ronald RayGun you a- hole) we were in many ways similar.   I was paid fairly, I think, but we were run against by politicians but whenever they needed whatever laws they came up with implemented it fell to us to make it happen.  Somebody has to make things actually work and it’s the civil service.  You can’t contract that out and it’s the U.S. government, not a business.  So you just keep on going and doing what needs done and don’t expect any flags or brass bands.  Maybe a sincere thank you occasionally from people who understand would be nice.  But nothing expected or required.  It is public service.

  148. 148.

    in the hills

    my dad,went in at normandy,six weeks after d-day as a replacement 2nd lt.

    siegfried line.

    2 purples,2 bronze,3 silvers ,and a d.s.c,

    came out a major.

    we always disagreed on politics,but I still admired his bravery.

  149. 149.

    Ruckus

    @The Pale Scot:

    Artificial legs work like real legs, I’ve known 3 men with them, one was a neighbor 2 doors down when I was in elementary school.

    These are a 4 or so inches in diameter tube, there is no hip joint, nor knee joint. One straight tube, solidly attached to the hip and with a plate on the bottom. To walk one tips to the left, picking up the right “foot” and rotates the lower body to the left, sets down the right “foot” and then does the opposite on the left side. It is slow, it is somewhat awkward to do, but it is upright mobility. This man did not lose part of his leg, he lost all of it on both sides, no hip joint, no part of his leg is there. The tube is solidly attached to his hip bone, not his hip joint. I have no idea how much or what else he lost but that smile was immense. I can find no information online about this procedure but I’ve seen it now on more than one person. I imagine it is extremely rare and would not be common without some horrific situation, such as what this man’s had to be, total loss of everything including hip joints.

  150. 150.

    Ruckus

    @Ironcity:

    As a vet using the VA I will say that discussions about the military can and do happen within the walls of the VA. Outside not so much. My father was in the Navy in WWII and he would never discuss it, even with me after I served. I think most people were just that way, but in the modern world we now have a far more open communication concept. Like what we are doing right now. I have a good friend of 50 yrs that was in the Marines and served in Vietnam and we do discuss our military life more than outsiders or most anyone in our parents generation. I feel this is better but then you sometimes find out things that you really didn’t want or at lease didn’t need to know. Does that help make the world a better place? I think it very much can.

  153. 153.

    BethanyAnne

    @Miss Bianca: Yeah, I just last year learned that H.E. volunteered to serve rather than serve time, which seems entirely in character. He was a wild old coot, and I could easily see a judge offering a more constructive outlet for his scrappiness. The funny part to me was that it took 30 years or so for anyone to elaborate on how he ended up serving.

  154. 154.

    Ruckus

    @Ironcity:

    My lottery number pulled on the first Vietnam draft lottery, Dec 1, 1969 was 15. I was 1A. I was going. Which was not a problem as I’d already enlisted in the Navy and was waiting for my letter to report, because that coming home every damn day after I’d turned 18 – 2 1/2 yrs before and expecting that letter was not good for my mental health. The not knowing stress was worse than being in.

  155. 155.

    Ruckus

    WG – Imagine being a military family and hearing the total lack of respect that comes out of Donald Trump’s mouth, with respect to people who have served.

    I don’t have to imagine, I like many others here and millions around this country that also actually served and actually enlisted for longer than if I’d been drafted.

  159. 159.

    taumaturgo

    Praise be to the thousand of global majority volunteers that answered the call to fight for democracy over there to come back and endured the terrorism, dehumanization and bigotry that they fought to eradicate.

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