Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

“And when the Committee says to “report your income,” that could mean anything!

“Joe Biden deserved better than he got from some folks in his own party.”

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

Somebody needs to explain to DeSantis that nobody needs to do anything to make him look bad.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

If you’re looking for someone who’s young and athletic, go watch a fucking movie.

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Every day Vance writes another chapter in the book called “Worst VP Pick Ever”.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

We’ll be taking my thoughts and prayers to the ballot box.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

I’m starting to think Jesus may have made a mistake saving people with no questions asked.

In short, I come down firmly on all sides of the issue.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Nikki Haley, who can’t acknowledge ‘slavery’, is a pathetic shill.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Buying and Selling (Open Thread)

Buying and Selling (Open Thread)

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Imagine you’re the grown son of a legendary mainstream media executive who specializes in coddling advertisers, and your job is peddling digital ads. Then your mom is appointed CEO of a global social media platform, and you’re hired to restart that platform’s shuttered political ad sales organization.

Exciting stuff, but there’s a catch: the owner of your mom’s company is one of the wealthiest people on the planet, but he’s also a rapidly decompensating, bigoted crank who incessantly posts shitty, appalling things on his platform — the platform on which you need to persuade campaigns to place ads.

And right before you start selling ads for a high-stakes election, the crank endorses a horrendous antisemitic conspiracy theory — the same noxious garbage that inspired the worst act of antisemitic violence in U.S. history. And a few days later, media watchdog group Media Matters showed how major brands’ ads are appearing on that platform alongside pro-Nazi content.

Luckily for Twitter/X CEO Linda Yaccarino’s son, he’s in charge of selling ads to Republicans, so he’ll be fine. The poor schnook who’s charged with selling ads to Democrats, not so much. From Semafor:

Linda Yaccarino, the CEO of X, formerly Twitter, has turned the service’s Hail Mary bet on an imagined $100 million political advertising business over to someone she trusts: her son Matt Madrazo…

He’s part of what’s essentially a two-man operation to restart X’s political advertising business with the goal of capitalizing on the massive amounts of money that campaigns are about to spend during the 2024 elections…

According to three people with knowledge of the situation, Madrazo has been tasked with outreach to Republican digital advertising firms and spenders. Jonathan Phelps, a Pandora and Univision veteran who also joined X in recent months, is handling the platform’s (far less promising) outreach to Democrats. Working occasionally out of Tesla’s D.C. offices, the duo are hoping to resuscitate a line of cash at a moment when the company is desperate for new revenue.

Semafor says pre-Musk Twitter stopped selling political ads in 2019 due to “fears that partisan actors could pay to spread false or misleading information.” Of course, Musk doesn’t fear that possibility; it probably figured into why he bought the platform.

But the article points out that when the hellsite hawked political ads without the Musk albatross around its neck, it only brought in $3 million in 2018. Even if you quadruple that number for a presidential election year, it’s still just a fraction of Yaccarino’s alleged target for political ad sales next year: $100 million. (If I were Phelps, I’d worry about being the fall guy when it goes to shit.)

I’m not generally a fan of Jake Tapper, but I do give him some credit for asking Ron DeSantis about Musk’s antisemitic tweet this weekend when DeSantis appeared on his show. As usual, DeSantis rejected the opportunity to condemn right-wing antisemitism, claiming he hadn’t seen the tweet and couldn’t comment.

After Tapper helpfully read the tweets, DeSantis still refused to criticize Musk, claiming he’d have to look into the context, Then he trained his fire on the real enemy.

DeSantis said he signed legislation in Florida that he characterized as an effort to combat antisemitism on college campuses — which has come under fire for its ban on pro-Palestinian student groups —before insisting that antisemitism is seen on “both sides.”

“The difference is that, on the left, that tends to be attached to some major institutional power, like some of our most august universities,” he said. “Whereas I think, on the right, it tends to be more fringe voices that are doing it.”

Right: the lefty student groups and flinchy Ivy administrators are far more powerful than a dickhead (and fat cat government contractor!) with enough money to impulse-buy a major social media platform. I can’t think of anything more to say about that aside from the classic: Christ, what an asshole! 

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

123Comments

  2. 2.

    cope

    Why and how do all these horrible people prosper? I had so much hope for our species when I was young 50 or so years ago. Now I don’t.

  5. 5.

    Urza

    @cope: Its a self sustaining ecosystem now.  In the past everyone could agree to shun them.  Now they have it in their follower/customers heads that anything bad about them can safely be ignored as a Democrat plot and only the clips on acceptable media are accurate.

  6. 6.

    Chief Oshkosh

    I’m thinking Linda’s son is going to find a way to have several millions deposited into Linda’s son’s bank account. The amount will closely match the dollar difference between what Republicans throw at Linda’s son to advertise on X and what the other schmuck will be able to painfully extract from Democrats. As long as Linda’s son’s X spreadsheets show that he’s always but only slightly better than the other poor schmuck, nobody will question his performance nor his numbers.

  7. 7.

    Baud

    Jonathan Phelps, a Pandora and Univision veteran who also joined X in recent months, is handling the platform’s (far less promising) outreach to Democrats.

    I assume Phelps has Dean Philips on speed dial.

  8. 8.

    Scout211

    @Quinerly: Anyone else listening to the oral arguments on Trump’s gag order?

    There is some discussion in the prior thread.  I’m following a live update.

  9. 9.

    dmsilev

    (If I were Phelps, I’d worry about being the fall guy when it goes to shit.)

    My operating theory is that Linda Yaccarino, and by extension apparently her son, was brought in to Twitter explicitly to take the blame when (not if) everything goes to shit. Can’t have any blame reflect on Supreme Leader, can we? If she’s got any brains at all, she’s siphoning as much money as possible into her own accounts (in cash, not Twitter “equity”) before the fall. Maybe bringing in her kid was part of that.

  10. 10.

    Eric S.

    Not that I needed any more reason but does anyone have a Blue Sky invite code they’d be willing to share with a semi-lurker?

  14. 14.

    Splitting Image

    This will almost certainly backfire.

    Official Republican advertising appearing next to content from Nazis which is functionally identical is only going to bring them closer together in people’s minds. They already have the Nazi vote locked up. The question is how many other people are willing to associate themselves with them.

    As said above, even $100 million won’t make Twitter profitable, and the only thing keeping the G.O.P. afloat is plausible deniability, which is becoming more implausible with every denial.

  15. 15.

    MattF

    Given that DeSantis is making the same evasions that TFG makes…

    Anyhow, I just watched Everything Everywhere All At Once on Kanopy. Excellent. And FREE.

  16. 16.

    cain

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    I’m thinking Linda’s son is going to find a way to have several millions deposited into Linda’s son’s bank account. The amount will closely match the dollar difference between what Republicans throw at Linda’s son to advertise on X and what the other schmuck will be able to painfully extract from Democrats. As long as Linda’s son’s X spreadsheets show that he’s always but only slightly better than the other poor schmuck, nobody will question his performance nor his numbers.

    Having your son as someone you hire seems like gigantic conflict of interest to me.

  19. 19.

    TriassicSands

     “Whereas I think, on the right, it tends to be more fringe voices that are doing it.”  — Ron DeSantis

    I wholeheartedly agree. The thing is, though, the entire Republican Party is now made up of “fringe voices.”

    Betty, I have to take exception to your calling DeSantis an asshole. He is much, much worse than that. I am, once again, mystified that anyone would vote for him. Unfortunately, I’m getting very accustomed to being mystified by Republicans and their voters. Sheesh,  what assholes!

  20. 20.

    Jeffro

    This whole “haven’t seen it, can’t comment” nonsense from fascists and fascist enablers, I swear…

    He JUST TOLD YOU what Musk tweeted, sooooooo what. are. your. thoughts, good. sir?

    Put it on poster board or pull it up on the screen, snooze media.  In 400-point type.  Whatever it takes.

    “Governor DeSantis, since you haven’t seen the tweet, here it is RIGHT HERE RIGHT HERE RIIIIIIIIGHT HERE.  Your thoughts?”

  22. 22.

    Betty Cracker

    There was a piece in Forbes (I think) about industry bigwigs imploring Yaccarino to resign and salvage her reputation. She’s not stupid, so there must be upside that’s not obvious to the rest of us, maybe a giant payday for her AND junior. Or maybe she drank the Musk koolaid. I don’t understand how anyone with a lick of sense could, but smart people do stupid things all the time.

  27. 27.

    TriassicSands

    @Quinerly:

    Not listening, but reading a little. A quick search brought up this on the CNN website (I never go there).

    Trump can’t be forced under a gag order to “speak Miss Manners while everyone else is throwing targets” at him during a theoretical GOP presidential primary debate, Millett said.

    Patricia Millett is one of the Appeals Court judges. What the hell is “throwing targets?” People throwing targets at Trump. I looked up her background and she isn’t speaking English as a Fifth Language.

    Targeting him? Yes. But throwing targets? Has anyone heard that expression before?

  30. 30.

    TriassicSands

    @Betty Cracker: She’s not stupid…maybe she drank the Musk koolaid.

    But if she drank the Musk Kool-Aid, wouldn’t that make her really, really stupid?

     

    Note: I’ve now been in the hospital for 17 days, which is by far the longest I’ve ever been in the slammer. Previously, the longest was 8 days after my first full intestinal blockage. I still have no idea when I will be discharged. I’ve been told they are moving me to a different room.

    The other day when we learned that Zander had died, I also discovered that my friend and neighbor, Laurel Ann, had died. Of an intestinal blockage.

  31. 31.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)

    @cope: There are a lot of very rich people who want to take the better angels of our nature out someplace where the bodies can be easily disposed of.

  36. 36.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Quinerly: I’m losing interest. It’s pretty clear that the judiciary either aligns with Trump (a la loose Cannon) or just doesn’t have the intestinal fortitude to apply laws to Trump.

    Tom Sullivan over at Digby’s has a good synopsis with commentary:

    https://digbysblog.net/2023/11/20/heads-we-win-tails-you-die/

    I still don’t understand why some people think that the Colorado judge’s ruling was even a partial win. She flat said that Trump committed the crime that the law (A14.3) addresses, but then won’t apply it to him because of some tortured, narrow definition of very common words used obviously as intended. That is the WORST outcome because it says that the president is above the law.

  38. 38.

    MattF

    A reminder from TPM that every accusation is an admission:

    A ‘faith-based’ leader of Moms for Liberty in Philly turns out to be (subscription required) a registered sex offender. But don’t worry: He says he was framed. It was part of a squabble from when he was part of the LaRouche movement back in Chicago, he claims.

    Can we please be done with the LaRouche crowd?

  39. 39.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @rikyrah: Also utterly ignorant of history, both European and US.  The Founders were much closer than us in time to Europe’s idiotic wars of religion, and the butcher’s bill associated with them.  They did not want that for their new republic, hence the 1st Amendment, to keep the state and church separate.  Johnson would undo that.  It’s like he and his fellow fundigelicals WANT to be repressed.

  40. 40.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @TriassicSands:

    Targeting him? Yes. But throwing targets? Has anyone heard that expression before?

    Never heard of it. And why is she flapping her gums like that during proceedings?

  42. 42.

    TriassicSands

    @MattF: LaRouche crowd.

    Lyndon LaRouche.

    Well, he may or may not be a sex offender, but now we know he’s nuts and an idiot.

  43. 43.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @TriassicSands: Hell, I knew that in 1976 when he had a paid half hour of utter craziness on NBC the night before Election Day.  Said that if Carter were elected, we’d be at war with Mexico by the end of 1977.

  45. 45.

    TriassicSands

    @Chief Oshkosh:  And why is she flapping her gums like that during proceedings?

    Hey, she’s an Appeals Court judge, she can say anything she wants to say. It sounds like they are going to loosen the gag order, especially to allow Trump to criticize Jack Smith. Judge Cornelia Pillard: “Surely he has thick enough skin,” Pillard said, referring to Smith.

    Well, it was either loosen the gag order or have Trump start railing about the Appeals Court judges. And the judges wouldn’t want that. Either that or the judges are completely unfamiliar with Trump’s benign and harmless rhetoric.

  46. 46.

    moops

    Yaccarino and son are going to loot X and its over-wealthy owner and their advertisers until they get shown the door and handed their golden parachute.  X will crash and burn but they will be wealthy for their entire lives.

  48. 48.

    lowtechcyclist

    @TriassicSands:

    Lyndon LaRouche.

    Well, he may or may not be a sex offender, but now we know he’s nuts and an idiot.

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    @TriassicSands: Hell, I knew that in 1976 when he had a paid half hour of utter craziness on NBC the night before Election Day.  Said that if Carter were elected, we’d be at war with Mexico by the end of 1977.

    I think TriassicSands was talking about the former LaRouche follower in Moms for Liberty who is a registered sex offender.

    LaRouche was of course totally nuts, but he’s been dead for nearly five years. Thank goodness.

  49. 49.

    Shalimar

    Working out of Tesla’s D.C. offices?  I know it’s way down the list of ways Musk is horrible, but Tesla and SpaceX have other shareholders.  You can’t just loan personnel or office space from one to the other like all these people are your personal toys.

  50. 50.

    TriassicSands

    @rikyrah:

    Thanks, but I’m going to refuse to leave unless I can take at least a couple of the nurses here home                             with me. They are so unbelievably nice.

    At first, I was having a different nurse every day and night shift. Then, I started getting the same several nurses again and again. It turns out that they can request a patient if they want to. I don’t know if I can request a nurse, but the one’s who are requesting me as a patient are the same ones I would request as my nurse. The downside is that it’s fun meeting new people — nurses, CNA, housekeeping. The upside — I always have a very good nurse whom I like and I’m protected from having Nurse Ratchet.

  53. 53.

    TriassicSands

    @lowtechcyclist:

    You are right. I suppose I should have made that clearer. I wrote the words “Lyndon LaRoushe” as if I were contemplating my memory of him. Then, I referred to the poor, victimized sex offender as being nuts and an idiot for having anything to do with the LaRouche movement.

    Also confusing — LaRouche was also both nuts and an idiot.

  55. 55.

    rikyrah

    Speak up, Mr. Investment Portfolio.

    Dr. Eli David (@DrEliDavid) posted at 4:44 AM on Sat, Nov 18, 2023:
    Hamas leader Khaled Mashal:

    “Russia, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Algeria, all sacrificed millions of people in wars. Palestinians will have to do the same.”

    Easy to say when you have a net worth $5 billion, and live lavishly in Qatar 🇶🇦 with your family.

    Dying is for peasants. https://t.co/dKhkrqoRta
    (https://x.com/DrEliDavid/status/1725827281107529760?t=tzPr0lDk1gG05ZuZhG41KQ&s=03)

  56. 56.

    WaterGirl

    @TriassicSands: I am a little behind because i have paused the video several times, but that’s the part that I just listened to a couple of minutes ago.

    The judge was saying that in response to the attorney for the Unitested States who had just argued that Trump can say the whole prosecution is politically motivated and they are all corrupt, but Trump SHOULDN’T BE ABLE TO SAY that this particular guy is corrupt or that particular guy is corrupt, naming names.

    So I think “throwing targets” was in reference to Trump’s opposition in a debate getting to name names, and Trump’s hands would be tied.

    I listened to what felt like 2 hours of back and forth with this judge and Trump’s attorney – and I felt like his attorney took a beating front this same judge for the better part of that two hours.

    It’s clear to me that she’s not in Trump’s camp, and since she’s gonna rule in favor of one side or the other, she is asking tough questions of both sides.

    I sure hope the Jack Smith guys are well prepared because this isn’t a slam dunk.

  59. 59.

    Martin

    @TriassicSands: The judge is talking about other GOP candidates in the primaries. It’s a stupid argument – he doesn’t need to personally attack anyone in the case to defend himself.

  63. 63.

    MattF

    @mrmoshpotato: I recall how visiting Europeans at American Thanksgiving dinners are always boggled by the idea of pumpkin pie. “But, but… it’s a vegetable.”

  64. 64.

    scav

    Well, then, shouldn’t that fucker DeSantis have to shut the fuck up about abortion until a) he’s had one and b) examined the context of the exact one in question?

  65. 65.

    Martin

    So, yesterday, we had our first +2C over industrialization day. That’s far from the same thing as an annual average of +2C, but it’s an indication of how close to that we might be. There is some speculation that we are very close to +1.5C already.

    As warming temperatures kill off boreal forests and rainforests, their loss accelerates the process. If they are killed off through burning, that accelerates it even faster.

    So yes, terrible, people will die, all that. If you care, what are you doing about it? Could you be doing more? Why aren’t you?

  66. 66.

    mrmoshpotato

    @MattF: Hahaha! 🎃

    I’m a pecan pie fan myself.  Yeah, I know it’s nuts.

    ETA – WTF, that’s the wrong pie showing up.

  68. 68.

    Barry

    @rikyrah: “I’m still not over Univision becoming a full on MAGA propaganda arm after their executives were given special treatment at crime hub Mar-a-Lago. They do realize they are supporting a racist movement that wants Latinos like myself/them deported or dead or both right? Disgraceful.”

     

    But they are in the elite, not the schmucks.

  70. 70.

    Scout211

    For what it’s worth, here is the CNN live update summary:

    After 2 hours and 20 minutes of oral arguments, the three-judge panel of the DC Circuit Court of Appeals appears inclined to restore the limited gag order in former President Donald Trump’s federal election subversion case, but may loosen some restrictions so he can more directly criticize special counsel Jack Smith.

    None of the judges embraced Trump’s claims that the gag order should be wiped away for good because it is a “categorically unprecedented” violation of his free speech rights.

    Yet they also posed sharp questions to prosecutors as they tried to find the boundary of where intense campaign-trail rhetoric crosses the line of undermining a criminal case.

    The limited gag order from district Judge Tanya Chutkan – which was temporarily frozen by the appeals panel when they agreed to hear the case — restricts Trump’s ability to directly attack Smith, members of his team, court staff or potential trial witnesses. He is allowed to criticize the Justice Department, proclaim his innocence, can say that the case is “politically motivated.”

    The appellate judges, who are all Democratic appointees, heard the case on an expedited schedule and are expected to issue a ruling soon.

    And in another one of the many court proceedings of TFG:

    Meanwhile, in the Fulton County election subversion case, Donald Trump’s attorneys are seeking access to some of the discovery material that special counsel Jack Smith may be holding in the federal case.

    The request suggests Trump’s legal team in Georgia believes Smith and federal prosecutors are in possession of material relating to “witnesses the DA’s office may call at trial or factual issues raised in the charges in the indictment that may be in dispute at trial,” Trump’s attorneys said in a court filing Monday.

    While Smith has produced discovery material to Trump’s lawyers in the federal case, a protective order prohibits those attorneys from sharing it with those in the Georgia case.

  71. 71.

    Geminid

    @MattF: Unfortunately, the LaRouche crowd is not yet done with us. Their more intellectual activities are built around the “Schiller Institute” based in the New York City area, and last year they ran a candididate against Chuck Schumer. The LaRoucheites also have a team of bully-boys- big guys with loud voices- who took turns yelling at Reps. Ocasio-Cortez, Bowman and Jeffries when they held town halls this spring. They were yelling about Ukraine then, but they’ll likely be yelling about Gaza next time.

  72. 72.

    Brachiator

    @Martin:

    So yes, terrible, people will die, all that. If you care, what are you doing about it? Could you be doing more? Why aren’t you?

    I’m not sure what people can do on an individual level. I’m not even sure what should be done on a governmental level.

  75. 75.

    cain

    @MattF:

    @mrmoshpotato: I recall how visiting Europeans at American Thanksgiving dinners are always boggled by the idea of pumpkin pie. “But, but… it’s a vegetable.”

    Which is hilarious because Americans are boggled by “Carrot Halwa” which is also a dessert made from carrots and milk.

  76. 76.

    coin operated

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Also utterly ignorant of history, both European and US.  The Founders were much closer than us in time to Europe’s idiotic wars of religion, and the butcher’s bill associated with them.  They did not want that for their new republic, hence the 1st Amendment, to keep the state and church separate.

    This. I bring up these same points when I run into a religious nutjob. Problem is…they never learn until it’s too late.

    Johnson would undo that.  It’s like he and his fellow fundigelicals WANT to be repressed.

    This is the part I don’t get when it comes to blurring church and state.  Back then, the church WAS the state, complete with their own armies and the like.  Johnson has…what? The 101st Chairborn Brigade? Good luck with that.

  77. 77.

    cain

    @rikyrah: Hey God was a brown, Jew lovin being until the United States was formed and then that all changed – a new reformation! The 2nd reformation happened after the movie Exodus was released!

  79. 79.

    TriassicSands

    @WaterGirl:

    Thanks, that makes sense — in context. But I read it as an isolated statement. So, by commenting about Trump the prosecutors are presenting him with targets at which his rhetoric is aimed. Understandable now,

    I’m having to jump back and forth to try to read things in the news and deal with all the people who come into my hospital room to draw blood, take my vitals, start and stop infusions, fix the infusion pump when it says the line is occluded (when it’s not) or there is air in the line, and give me medication. It turns out you don’t come to the hospital for quiet and sleep. I get phone calls from this department and that doctor. I can’t wait to get home and rest.

  80. 80.

    cain

    @Eric S.: Every time I see “Blue Sky” the song “Bullet the Blue Sky” from U2 (Joshua Tree album) keeps playing in my head.

    I also want you to know that right now as I type, Zoe and Ziggy are intensely watching the text and cursor appearing on the screen. :D

  81. 81.

    Eyeroller

    @Brachiator: My major contribution was not having children.  Reducing the population would help a lot but that results in panics either about “my ethnic group will become extinct” and/or “there won’t be enough workers in the future.”  And unfortunately I think the population reduction that would be required would be difficult or impossible to achieve sufficiently quickly at this point in a humane and controlled manner.

    I don’t believe most humans are going to be willing or even able to make drastic lifestyle changes over a short timescale, and at this point the timescale has shrunk compared to what it might have been if we’d taken this halfway seriously about 40 years ago.

    Aside from that I think we are all supposed to get e-bikes, which is completely impractical for me for multiple reasons, and move to a dense area, which I might be able to do with a lot of effort and if I could find a place that allows or accommodates four cats.

  82. 82.

    TriassicSands

    @Scout211:

    Apparently, the judges are unaware that it would be a gift of kindness to the entire world if we just had complete silence for a few days from the Indicted Thing. Even his supporters would benefit, because they wouldn’t get any new provocations to act like complete idiots. They’ll be able to get back to that later. We all need a rest.

  83. 83.

    John S.

    @coin operated:

    His agenda is even more ridiculous than you can imagine. Here is Speaker Godbotherer opining on the nature of separation of church and state last week:

    The speaker of the House of Representatives, Mike Johnson, has delivered his verdict on the separation of church and state: it is a “misnomer”.

    The second-in-line to the presidency informed Americans on Tuesday that their time-honored conception of one of the founding principles of the country was a “misunderstanding”.

    Speaking to CNBC’s Squawk Box, he tried to turn the conventional wisdom about the founders’ intentions on its head and claimed what they really wanted was to stop government interfering with religion, not the other way around.

  85. 85.

    Martin

    @Brachiator: Economics makes the world go round – even moreso than politics.

    But there’s a lot that local regulations can do. Get involved with your city to push for transit options, push against increased investment in car infrastructure. Cities can have ordinances on energy efficiency. They can use zoning to reduce high-carbon intensity activities and businesses. City operations can start by making themselves carbon neutral.

    Write to your representatives. Write to your state reps and governor.

    And yes, personal things can help because they help shift the economic landscape. I’ve advocated for reducing driving.

    E-bikes and scooters displace 4x as much demand for oil as all of the EVs in the world.

    Even if you personally aren’t able to ride a bike, encourage others – there are stigmas against bike riding we can address. Advocate for your city to make it safer. Ask elected officials to subsidize ebikes rather than EVs, or transit rather than EVs. This is my biggest criticism of IRA – that it dumped a ton of cash into EV subsidies that are only helping the wealthy and not really doing that much for the environment. For 1/4th the amount, they could have handed out free bikes to low income people and gotten a better environmental benefit and shifted municipality investments  – which is a serious problem right now.

    20% of emissions is from eating meat. If nothing else, eat less. Put that economic pressure on restaurants to expand their menus. The entire excess water usage of the Colorado river is just raising livestock. Change that, and the river issues are solved.

    So yes, there’s a lot individuals can do, directly or indirectly. In my city I often feel like I’m the only voice not advocating for maximum profit/convenience. It would be nice to have others.

  87. 87.

    Eyeroller

    @cain: It’s really the same idea, combine a well-cooked starchy vegetable with sugar and something like milk into a pudding-like substance. Cooked carrots are quite sweet so it’s not that odd.

    And people who think pumpkin pie is weird might be really astonished by sweet-potato pie.

    I’m not sure carrot and zucchini cakes/breads etc. are quite in the same category, but it’s another example of using vegetables in something at least dessert-like.

  88. 88.

    Martin

    @Eyeroller: The problem is that the lifestyle change is going to come whether you like it or not. All people are doing is leaving it to fate rather than choice.

    But you can be conscientious of your driving and reduce the amount. You can choose to own a small car over a large one – simply the amount of unnecessary mass you have to move around has a big impact – that’s literally all ebikes are doing – eliminating the unnecessary mass. You can cut beef from your diet. You don’t need to be a vegan, just shift it. If you can afford solar, install solar. If you can take the bus, take the bus. Increased ridership is the best way to get more transit. And if you can’t, go to your city council and ask for these things. Ask them to put solar on the schools and city buildings. As them to stop investing in car infrastructure and invest instead on low-carbon infrastructure. As them to stop zoning for single family and zone for greater density, and ask for more inexpensive housing while you’re there to help with the homelessness problem. A lot of homeless people have jobs – they just can’t afford – or in some places like California even find an apartment – we have waiting lists almost everywhere.

  89. 89.

    Paul in KY

    @TriassicSands: He is a truly horrible person. He can’t smile at any event, cause the only time he can really smile is when he is torturing somebody.  That kind of person.

  91. 91.

    Eyeroller

    @Martin: Virginia doesn’t believe in road shoulders.  Too expensive.  Only major highways have them.  Bicycling is dangerous here.  Even the college-dominated area where I live has almost no bike infrastructure.  Some of the very newest roads are being built with bike lanes and those end abruptly as soon as they join with older roads.  There will never be any transit into the county where I live due to low population density.  Well, I should not say “never” but likely not for as long as I’ll live here.  So while I’d be happy to advocate for e-bikes and transit for younger people in states with better infrastructure, it’s not happening around here for a long time.

  94. 94.

    Eyeroller

    @Martin: ​
     You think like a person who lives in a dense urban area. Most Americans do and that’s only increasing, so those things are good possibilities in much of the country, but there are large swathes where it’s basically impossible. My employer is trying to improve its power sourcing; they got off coal and have been installing solar. That helps but it’s a long way from serving all its needs, especially since it runs a large hospital complex. There is no feasible transit in the county surrounding the small city where the university is located. Transit in town isn’t too bad for a town of its size, as far as I can tell, but it doesn’t have a lot of reach.

  97. 97.

    Scout211

    This seems . . . Not good.
    Appeals court strikes down key tool used to enforce Voting Rights Act

    CNN — 
    A federal appeals court on Monday ruled against a key tool used to enforce the Voting Rights Act – possibly setting up another Supreme Court showdown over one of the nation’s landmark civil rights laws.

    In a ruling that springs from an Arkansas redistricting case, the 8th US Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that private entities cannot bring lawsuits under a provision of the law, known as Section 2.

    In a 2-1 decision, the judges said the “text and structure” of the voting rights statute shows that Congress did not give private plaintiffs the authority to sue. The appellate panel affirmed a 2022 ruling by a Trump-appointed federal judge in Arkansas that held only the US Justice Department can bring Section 2 lawsuits.

  98. 98.

    trollhattan

    @Eyeroller:

    Don’t get me started. Okay, I’m self-starting.

    My current jerb I took in part because it would be an end to my car-commute. Light rail to the front door, bike locker by the entry, so either a 12-minute LR trip or a 40-minute round trip on a bike, which I managed 200 days/year. Doesn’t rain much.

    Then covid and WFH, the best commute of all except losing out on the 2X/day exercise (me, being lazy).

    Then return to work but not before a reorg that put my sorry ass out in a suburb and back in my car for the first time since the aughts. I can ride as I got a bike locker but it’s 2:15 round trip and only practical in summer. It also includes some horrifying stretches in traffic and kind of doesn’t work while school’s in session, raising the traffic noticeably.

    This old inner burb decided sidewalks to be a suspicious hippie pro-walking thing so for the large part don’t have them. Bike lanes are carved out of normal width car lanes and one has literal brushes with passing traffic.

    My 12-minute light rail trip is 43, but ends miles from the office so non-viable.

    I won’t bother commenting on the car commute. Everybody knows.

  99. 99.

    Geminid

    @Martin: Arec you sure that 20% of carbon emissions are from eating meat? My understanding is that roughly 30% of emissions worldwide are from light and heavy transport, 30% are from electricity generation, 20% are from industrial production of steel, cement, glass etc. and 15% are from heating.

  100. 100.

    Brachiator

    @Eyeroller:

    My major contribution was not having children.  Reducing the population would help a lot but that results in panics either about “my ethnic group will become extinct” and/or “there won’t be enough workers in the future.”

    I acknowledge your choice, but everything I see indicates that we have room and resources for more people. Every prediction about a catastrophe arising from over population has failed to happen.

    There is a challenge which always gets overlooked. In every prosperous country with good health care, the proportion of people age 65 and older increases. This is not the same thing as fewer people being born. And ultimately the older people have to be taken care of, and the costs of their care increases.

    I don’t believe most humans are going to be willing or even able to make drastic lifestyle changes over a short timescale, and at this point the timescale has shrunk compared to what it might have been if we’d taken this halfway seriously about 40 years ago.

    I think that this is one of the major obstacles in thinking about dealing with various potential future problems. There are some who are fine with the idea of a general decline in their standard of living. Others believe that their standard of living should remain the same, but that everyone else and future generations should be willing to adjust to a lower standard of living.

    But a lot of people reject this as greedy and foolish elites telling everyone else how they have to live their lives. We reject this kind of doomsayer stuff when it comes from religious zealots. What makes environmental activists correct in their predictions of doom if we don’t change our evil ways? Why can’t there be a more positive environmentalism?

    Aside from that I think we are all supposed to get e-bikes, which is completely impractical for me for multiple reasons, and move to a dense area, which I might be able to do with a lot of effort and if I could find a place that allows or accommodates four cats.

    I don’t see e-bikes as a solution for me, either. I already live in a fairly dense area.

  102. 102.

    Mike E

    E-biking in spRaleigh is possible depending where you live and how far you need to go. I had a job just 2¼ miles from my apartment with some killer hills in-between and I took advantage of the city e-bike program that offered a free service with several docking stations within 12-14 minutes of walking. Only once did the electric assist crap out mid trip, and I returned bikes back to the dock 3 or 4 times because of low battery and got on another bike without much hassle. Over five months of use and I can safely say if you are anywhere near proficient as a bicyclist (and have some urban riding experience) then the e-bike option is a winner imo.

  104. 104.

    Brachiator

    @Martin:

    But there’s a lot that local regulations can do. Get involved with your city to push for transit options, push against increased investment in car infrastructure.

    I don’t have a problem with cars. And here in Southern California, public transit use has declined significantly. In a nutshell, even lower income people bought cars, especially used cars. And public transportation has become less desirable as crime and homeless problems have increased.

    And I note this as someone who has been lucky enough to be able to use public transit effectively to get to work.

    But yeah, we need public transit. But Southern California is a large and complicated area. Hell, it looks as though there will never be direct fast public transit access to the airport, even with the Olympics coming.

    E-bikes and scooters displace 4x as much demand for oil as all of the EVs in the world.

    I am skeptical about e-bikes, especially for older people and families. And bikes and scooters can create all kinds of parking and waste problems. But maybe I need to see more examples of this being used successfully.

    Regular bikes take up more space and cause problems on Metro trains. I have seen transit authorities force bikers to wait for another train during afternoon rush hours.

    This is my biggest criticism of IRA – that it dumped a ton of cash into EV subsidies that are only helping the wealthy and not really doing that much for the environment.

    More complicated than you suggest. Even if EV subsidies help the wealthy now, EVs will become cheaper for more people. We saw the same thing with regular cars. Are there subsidies for e-bikes?

    And yeah, there are some interesting challenges here. People drive EVs fewer miles than ICE cars, resulting in reduced pollution benefits. And we are finding that considerable pollution comes from tires on the road. Lots of work to do here.

    20% of emissions is from eating meat. If nothing else, eat less. Put that economic pressure on restaurants to expand their menus.

    Sigh. You have to do better than this. People have a hard enough time paying for food. “Eat less” is fine for the already comfortable.

    The entire excess water usage of the Colorado river is just raising livestock. Change that, and the river issues are solved.

    No problem here.

  105. 105.

    Hob

    @Brachiator:

    But a lot of people reject this as greedy and foolish elites telling everyone else how they have to live their lives. We reject this kind of doomsayer stuff when it comes from religious zealots. What makes environmental activists correct in their predictions of doom if we don’t change our evil ways? Why can’t there be a more positive environmentalism?

    Oh, come on. This is really dishonest rhetoric— I can’t believe that you do not understand why predictions of serious danger from environmental harm, based on science, are different from predictions of doom based on religious beliefs. I also can’t believe that you don’t understand why “predictions of imminent doom specifically from overpopulation did not come to pass” isn’t a useful metric for evaluating current climate-related and pollution-related dangers, and doesn’t logically imply that there is literally no effect of population on those dangers. The current predictions are based on overwhelming scientific consensus, and on harmful effects we are already seeing; the very dramatic claims about an overpopulation crisis in the 1970s were not.

    I don’t like to project motives onto other commenters, but I’m at a loss as to how to read what you wrote without seeing it as you hand-waving to justify your personal preference for not having to make any changes at all for environmental reasons. Your comment has all this “some people believe … other people believe” stuff to distance yourself from any particular position, but in context it seems pretty clear that that’s a David Brooks-type gesture and that you do identify with the position of “I should not have to adjust to a lower standard of living, no matter what.” If I’m wrong about that, maybe you could say more about what you actually do believe— more specific than saying everyone else worries too much whereas you worry the correct amount.

  106. 106.

    Hob

    @Brachiator: I mean, I’ve been reading your comments for many years, so I’m not surprised by you having a general response of “all the other liberals are too concerned about [X]”— that’s been your general outlook on many subjects, it’s not worth arguing about. But specifically on this subject, you just said an outlandishly stupid thing that’s indistinguishable from what total far-right climate denialists say: that there’s no reason to believe in severe environmental dangers, because religious prophets of doom were wrong. And you wrapped it in the same sneering rhetoric that those people use, where if someone is saying we need to change our ways for pragmatic reasons then that’s the same as calling us evil.

    You could apply that to literally any past real danger that was predicted and acted on in any way, to imply that it shouldn’t have been. Like, “Why should we listen to predictions about the ozone layer being destroyed by our evil use of CFCs?” “Why should we listen to AIDS activists predicting many more deaths due to not taking the epidemic seriously?” I get that you think you’re just a common-sense type person, but when your rhetoric maps so easily onto the wrong side of so many past issues, that means it’s empty and not a useful guide.

  107. 107.

    Brachiator

    @Hob:

    I don’t like to project motives onto other commenters, but I’m at a loss as to how to read what you wrote without seeing it as you hand-waving to justify your personal preference for not having to make any changes at all for environmental reasons.

    Calm down. I have said nothing about my personal preferences or what I am willing to do for “environmental reasons.”

    So yeah, you are projecting more than the equipment at my local multi-plex cinema.

    But you have a couple of good points here. I have been talking more about lay people who insist that we have to settle for a lower standard of living in order to deal with climate change.

    And unfortunately even political leaders tend to talk about massive amounts of money and investment that must be spent to deal with climate change. No matter how worthy this may be, it stirs up political resistance in people who don’t see the potential benefits or don’t believe that the problem is as dire as suggested.

    The science of solutions to climate change is not that clearcut. And it is a massively global challenge.

  108. 108.

    Brachiator

    @Hob:

    Like, “Why should we listen to predictions about the ozone layer being destroyed by our evil use of CFCs?” “Why should we listen to AIDS activists predicting many more deaths due to not taking the epidemic seriously?”

    I appreciate that you have read many of my past comments, but I have never said or written anything like this in my life.

  111. 111.

    gene108

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    utterly ignorant of history, both European and US. The Founders were much closer than us in time to Europe’s idiotic wars of religion, and the butcher’s bill associated with them. They did not want that for their new republic, hence the 1st Amendment, to keep the state and church separate. Johnson would undo that. It’s like he and his fellow fundigelicals WANT to be repressed.

    They want the blood bath of 16th and 17th century European religious wars, because they think in the end they will come out on top and can usher in a golden age of Christian nationalism.

  112. 112.

    Eyeroller

    @Brachiator: And in other threads we’ve had discussions about American young people complaining that they can’t buy a house (possibly meaning one “like I grew up in”) and being upset that their standard of living may drop a little bit compared to their parents’.

    I think it should be fairly obvious that the human population can’t continue to increase indefinitely.  There is a carrying capacity for every species and there are indications that we have exceeded ours, meaning that we are depleting several resources (fertile soil, fresh water) faster than they can be replenished.  As a kind of reductio ad absurdum, quite a while ago I did a simple back-of-the-envelope calculation.  Assuming the doubling time stays at its current 40 years (I think that is starting to slow down now, but only a little bit as of yet), and with a reasonable estimate of the number of protons available in the observable universe, in about 500 years all the matter in the universe would be required just to make up human bodies.  That’s what exponential growth means.  And we have a lot of systems (including some economic ones) that rely on exponential growth.

    But there certainly are some things we could do that would mitigate the situation without much sacrifice.  E.g. “eating less meat” doesn’t need to mean “eating less,” it just means that we’d need to shift our diets more toward vegetables.  Yet middle-income countries that aren’t culturally vegetarian want to eat more red meat.

  113. 113.

    Brachiator

    @Eyeroller:

    And in other threads we’ve had discussions about American young people complaining that they can’t buy a house (possibly meaning one “like I grew up in”) and being upset that their standard of living may drop a little bit compared to their parents’.

    Complicated issue. When I was a kid, most adults I knew worked the same job or worked in the same industry, with at least modest annual raises, their entire lives. But when I became an adult I knew more people who had lost a home during a period of extended unemployment.

    But also here in California, I see a large cohort of people who make so much money that they are driving up home prices, and also a cohort of people who are priced out of the state, but who are able to buy houses in the states they move to.

    And the larger problem here is a shortage of affordable housing, homes and apartments, due to a number of factors, including opposition from existing homeowners.

    There is a carrying capacity for every species and there are indications that we have exceeded ours.

    Nope.

    And hell, in America we throw away enough food to feed the world several times over.

  116. 116.

    Soprano2

    @Brachiator: “Expanding the menu” sounds fine in theory, but if hardly anyone orders that choice because of the type of restaurant you have, and the ingredients in that dish aren’t used in anything else, it won’t last long on the menu because of economics. We’re updating our menus in the next couple of weeks (I hope!), and we’re narrowing the choices because of economics. I don’t understand how restaurants with pages and pages of choices can do that and make money, unless it’s just a lot of the same stuff worded differently

  117. 117.

    Ruckus

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    It’s like he and his fellow fundigelicals WANT to be repressed.

    They want the world to be, if you will, not just one structure but one structure of their design. They want to make it after themselves so they can feel at home, rather than have all those nasty people around that don’t see them as the guiding light. IOW they want justification for their bullshit. They don’t believe in live and let live, in freedom of expression, religion, etc. They don’t just want, they need the world to make sense in only one way, to justify that bullshit. At one time a person could pick up and move someplace that they fit into. Now? With world wide communications, easy travel to most anywhere, their world hasn’t gotten tiny and only one direction, it’s gotten far more complicated and likely seems overwhelming to those of tiny, closed minds.

  119. 119.

    Brachiator

    @Soprano2:

    “Expanding the menu” sounds fine in theory, but if hardly anyone orders that choice because of the type of restaurant you have, and the ingredients in that dish aren’t used in anything else, it won’t last long on the menu because of economics.

    Yeah, I just kinda skipped over the “expand” the menu thing.

    The impact of the pandemic on restaurants and the subsequent recovery has been tough.

    I observed something I heard about on an NPR business podcast. A couple of restaurants focused on takeout when restaurants were closed or had limited seating. They eliminated some items that would be great if you could eat them at the restaurant, but which were not as enjoyable when they tried to prepare them for takeout.

    After the pandemic, some restaurants dropped the items from the menu.

    And as you note, costs have to be considered when expanding menu items.

    Running a restaurant is tough.

  120. 120.

    Ruckus

    @Brachiator:

    Actually public transit use has increased significantly here in LA.

    I know, as I’ve used it for a number of years and use it now semi regular. The major change is the Metro rail system. Sure it doesn’t get used as much on weekends but it still has riders and during the week there are times when it is standing room only. And the bus systems that take someone that last bit are often crowded. Not standing room only in my experience but not a lot of empty seats. I don’t know how many cars have been removed from traffic because LA county now has a larger population than 40 states. At least it did about a month ago, which is the last time the subject came up. But public transportation is actually used a lot, those Metro trains run during the day several times an hour and they can be, as stated above, rather crowded standing room only.

  121. 121.

    Ruckus

    @Brachiator:

    I have a cousin who just moved to another state, to a nicer, larger house on a larger piece of land than what he lived in in SoCal and put a couple hundred grand in the bank doing it. As I’ve said here prior LA county now has a larger population than 40 states. And is smaller than all of them. We are showing most of the rest of the country what population density looks like. And your comment about public transportation here in the greater LA area is off base as well, at least in my experience as a user of it, rather than driving everywhere as I age. I’m still comfortable driving, it’s just that a lot of the places I have to go are across the county and the train and bus system is far cheaper than gas at $4.50 a gallon – and UP.

  122. 122.

    Brachiator

    @Ruckus:

    As I’ve said here prior LA county now has a larger population than 40 states. And is smaller than all of them. We are showing most of the rest of the country what population density looks like.

    Southern California is not particularly dense. LA County is not particularly dense. Governor Newsom finally got some laws passed to offset homeowner opposition to more housing. We will see what happens.

    And your comment about public transportation here in the greater LA area is off base as well, at least in my experience as a user of it, rather than driving everywhere as I age.

    I love you, bro, but you’re just wrong. Go to the Metro site. You see service cutbacks. I do a lot of work in the San Gabriel Valley. Metro eliminated the express service from Hollywood to Pasadena City College, and later eliminated local service to East Pasadena. You can easily observe Metro and Foothill Transit buses throughout the day that are practically empty. Some of the service has moved to the Gold Line, which goes to Azusa. There are other routes that are still busy and sometimes crowded, but bus and train ridership has not recovered among many routes since the pandemic.

    Have you not followed the stories about increasing crime, including murders, on some lines? Metro has released a new app that is used exclusively to report crimes and other problems. Foothill Transit has started putting LA County sheriff’s officers on buses and sometimes having police cars shadow busses. This is announced on the bus PA system. Have you never heard the announcements?

    When was the last time you were inside Union Station? They are trying to do better, but they removed entire sections of seating to try to deter problems. But there are areas where homeless people sleep and eat. And you have to watch out for human feces in the elevators.

    There are some routes that are very nice. The 720 Express along Wilshire, even the 20 local, is typically a sweet ride. Service between LA and Glendale to Hollywood, also nice.

    But there are some segments that are unpleasant, and some that are downright dangerous.

    ETA. I also admit that I know people who work for Metro, so I have a small amount of access to inside information.

    Also, I have been a member of some Metro customer panels. I try to be fair and honest because I think that public transit is vital and can be much better. I try to make sure that I can back up my observations.

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