Senator Jubilation T. Cornpone goes full racist. https://t.co/qvi3fddz63
— Charles P. Pierce (@CharlesPPierce) November 21, 2023
Kennedy’s Louisiana seat is safely gerrymandered, and he’s got many years of favors to his donors to protect him. So he can afford to ‘joke‘ about our Vice President’s capabilities, as part of his latest clown performance on Fox News…
I doubt Kennedy thinks sheās stupid. Heās just appealing to the stupid fucks who know sheās smarter than them & who hate her for it.
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) November 21, 2023
‘Many people are saying… ‘
Dean Phillips, on the other hand, is just another white dude who thinks having money makes him ‘perceptive’ — just ask any of his hired hands and / or ‘friends’. This kind of genteel racism will do him no harm in New Hampshire (93% ‘White alone‘ per the last census), and he just may get a short-lived publicity bump after their primary from a scoop-hungry media (unless the GOP Angry Tantrums Caucus sucks up all the oxygen, once again). But once his campaign moves on to South Carolina, (69% ‘White alone‘, and a stronghold of support for President Biden): Burnt toast.
Apparently Dean Phillips is floundering so hard that heās now resorting to attacking Vice-President Harris. He better keep the VPās name out of his mouth and apologize. No one will support him so heās going to torch his entire reputation on the way out. Sad to see. pic.twitter.com/8fBhlLgBfj
— Robert Garcia (@RobertGarcia) November 21, 2023
Congressman, you'll be happy to know I spoke to a group of more than 50 Democrats on Sunday, and told them they'd have to stop buying Talenti. They all agreed.
— Joan Walsh (@joanwalsh) November 21, 2023
The water's only warm because you're pissing in it, Little Mister Not-Ready-For-Prime-Time.
— Anna Maltese š š¹ š (@MalteseAnna) November 21, 2023
Actually, I know the Vice President well and know her to be exceptional.
Always prepared.
Strong.
Deeply knowledgeable.
Brings diverse perspectives to decisions.ā¦ and loyal. https://t.co/xaPGA7aCki
— Tina Smith (@TinaSmithMN) November 21, 2023
Criticisms of Harris's "disposition" or "competency" are rooted in racism and misogyny, full stop. Phillips even ADMITS these criticisms are unfounded but he leans into them anyway. One of the most cynical things I've ever seen in American politics, and honey that bar was LOW
— War Criminal Elmo šŗš¦š®š±š³ļøāšš„š„ (@WarCriminalElmo) November 21, 2023
Dean Phillips wants you to think that āpeopleā donāt have faith in Vice President Harris.
Instead of echoing far-right talking points, maybe Dean should visit a college campus and feel the #Kamalove for himself. pic.twitter.com/rUd708thns
— Voters of Tomorrow (@VotersTomorrow) November 21, 2023
Phillips’ professional advisors are already dumping anti-Biden attack ads in New Hampshire — and in DC, where they can’t score Dean any votes, but they *can* go on former Republican Steve Schmidt’s resume for his next gig. And he’s already sparked two contenders for his House Seat in Minnesota, either of whom look to be an upgrade from ‘mediocre white dude’.
I see this as an absolute racist and ignorant stance to think that DNC doesn't have a plan. There is a plan in case something happens to Biden. It's called the Constitution, and the backup plan is VP Kamala Harris.
It's totally insulting, sexist, and racist.
— Christian UclĆ©s (@daakardior) November 21, 2023
War for Ukraine Day 636: The Day of Dignity & Freedom
Baud
It’s not because he’s a senator. LA is just really racist.
Odie Hugh Manatee
My wife and I damn near moved to Shreveport in 1990 for a job offer. Luckily we went down there to check it out, promptly turned around afterward, went home. Fuck that static and boy did we ever dodge a bullet. The company that had the job offer mismanaged themselves into the ground a few years later as I half expected after our visit there. We actually liked Bossier City better than Shreveport.
Our most memorable sight was the “Do Not Put Dead Animals In The Trash Can” signs on the rural highway. Crossing the state line from Texas into Louisiana was like crossing from day into night; nicely inmate-trimmed boulevard-style highway of Texas and then the war zone known as Louisiana…lol!
Betty Cracker
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Ever been to New Orleans? It’s pretty cool.
Baud
Also too, kudos to Senator Smith.
Yutsano
Ugh. They always revert to type. Always. I’m now going to assume any rich white man is racist until they prove otherwise. And trust me that bar is pretty high.ā
BellyCat
Kamala, eating people alive during the hearings is what tipped me in favor of her forever. Bring it, Kamala!!!
Betty Cracker
Yesterday evening, the relative who was supposed to bring two pies to tomorrow’s Thanksgiving feast let the host know he can’t attend after all. The host contacted me in a panic about OMG NO PIES, so I volunteered to make them. (Guaranteed the original pie designee was going to bring store-bought pies. He can’t boil a goddamn egg!)
I always avoid the grocery store on the Wednesday before the holiday because it’s like the Hunger Games, but maybe if I show up when it opens at 7 AM it won’t be so bad?
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Sounds like they set you up so that you would make your delicious pies.
Baud
@Yutsano:
I don’t know that you need to add “rich” as a qualifier.
Kirk
@Baud: as an older white male it saddens me that I can’t reasonably object to this.
E.
@Betty Cracker: As a new employee of a non-union grocery store in the South, I do think it will be okay at 7 a.m. and please shop at a unionized store if possible. And not on Thanksgiving Day. All grocery store employees thank you for taking these actions and for listening to my Public Service Announcement.
lowtechcyclist
Today being the sixtieth anniversary of the day John Fitzgerald Kennedy was assassinated, hearing this racist shit from another John Kennedy is particularly offensive.
Maybe TFG will take Kennedy as his running mate, so that our excellent VP can destroy him in their debate, demonstrating once and for all which one should sell when his IQ gets to 75. And even when/if it does, he’ll still be a racist fuck.
brantl
I wish heād put his dentures in, before he started talking; it wouldnāt have changed his odious content, but it would have saved me from having to listen to his lips smacking together like a bulldog eating tapioca pudding.
Betty Cracker
RE: The Joan Walsh tweet up top — Phillips no longer owns Talenti. Glad I don’t have to add them to my lengthy mental list of problematic companies; their salted caramel gelato is a favorite.
Not that Phillips’ self-interested gossip-mongering about the VP is behavior that would rise to boycott level in my book anyway, even if he were still the owner. His comments were pathetic and dumb, but if I boycotted every product made by outfits whose leaders behaved pathetically, stupidly, hypocritically, arrogantly, etc., I would have long ago succumbed to starvation or exposure.
@E.: Thanks! If there were a unionized grocery store in my town, I’d patronize it, but there are none. I am headed to Publix, which is problematic in several ways but does treat its employees pretty well.
NotMax
“Degradation today, degradation tomorrow, degradation forever.”
//
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
The pre-MJ show on MSNBC is talking about a near fight between two members of the DeSantis campaign.
bjacques
Heās powdered toast.
NotMax
@bjacques
Cannot resist.
:)
Joe Falco
@Betty Cracker:
I finished making my pie this morning I promised to bring for the inlaws. It’s a recipe for Texas pecan pie that’s from before corn syrup was even considered as an ingredient.
satby
@Joe Falco: Do share! Any recipe that avoids corn syrup is a winner in my book.
Rusty
Those Phillips comments make me even more committed to getting out for the New Hampshire primary so I can write in Joe.Ā The faster we can squeeze the oxygen from his campaign, the better.Ā What an asshole.
lowtechcyclist
@Betty Cracker:
Don’t know what pies they were expecting, but pumpkin pie is REALLY EASY to put together, and two is as easy as one.
Assuming you already have eggs and sugar on hand, and salt, cinnamon, ginger, and cloves in your spice rack, all you need from the store for one pumpkin pie will be a 15oz. can of Libby’s pumpkin, a 12 oz. can of evaporated milk, and a Keebler 10″ graham cracker crust.
When you bake the pie, follow the ‘old fashioned’ pie recipe on the Libby’s can, only double the amounts of cinnamon, ginger, and cloves that the recipe says.Ā That’s the difference between a bland pumpkin pie and one that’s actually good.Ā (My wife has never liked pumpkin pie, but she’ll willingly eat mine.)
Good luck!
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I read about that! There’s bad blood between the super PAC bosses. IIRC, one resigned and spun up a new super PAC, so now there will be two organizations fruitlessly rattling the begging bowl as the campaign goes down the toilet.
NotMax
Not decrepit yet. Actually remembered an hour ago o take the meat for Thursday (thick cut loin lamb chops) out of freezer and into the fridge so they will be defrosted for Thanksgiving.
Wednesday will prepare the cranberry sauce in order to give it sufficient time to gel when chilled. May also put together the sweet potato casserole (no marshmallows, thank you very much) if can muster the motivation.
satby
@Baud: @Kirk: Had an email exchange yesterday with an older white male friend of over 50 years about a Heather Cox Richardson post I had sent him (yesterday’s in fact). He replied with some blather about feckless Dems always doing identity politics while Republicans run rings around them, specifically mentioning that running Biden and keeping Harris as VP will lose the election.Ā
I scorched his ass in reply. He’s one of those confirmed bachelor, (considers himself) a true romantic, courtly types who’s “just never found the right woman”. In reality he drives women away with his patronizing, controlling, misogynistic behavior. He at least votes Dem however resentfully, but what a putz.
Mai Naem mobile
I find it hard to ignore Phillips’ huge nose. The campaign pics try to photoshop or do lighting to minimize the size but in regular non touched up pics his nose looks huge. It’s huge like when you get surgery done on something and it swells up temporarily. I know I’m supposed to pay attention to what he’s saying but the nose won’t let me do that.
Ten Bears
Dean who … ?
Baud
@satby:
You ever see those polls where 90% of Dems are on board with something good and wonder who that 10% was?
Guys like that.
Joe Falco
@satby:
I learned about the recipe from Max Miller’s Tasting History channel on YouTube. There’s also his recently published cookbook that includes the recipe as well.
https://youtu.be/sIFlPc-TW94?si=ab_YSjLCCkLB5Dvj
satby
@Joe Falco: Thank you! Can’t wait to make it.
Marmot
@Betty Cracker:
Thatās the rare case where I go to Randallās, the inferior grocery store, first. Less picked-over and less crowded.
Coincidently, saw the new Hunger Games yesterday, found it slow.
JWR
As far as sh*t talking VP Harris, Seth Meyers, one of my two favorite late night TV hosts, isn’t helping when his writers give him stuff like this for his monologue…
… and he doesn’t axe it for something better. The above is probably not a direct quote, but you get the gist of his Harris “jokes”.
geg6
Olā Foghorn Leghorn should just fuck off and die already. Ā As for that asshole Philips, he should take the example of Foghorn Leghorn.
NotMax
FYI.
High tech prison in the U.K.
geg6
@lowtechcyclist:
It is blasphemy to use graham cracker for pumpkin pie. Ā So says the person who has had pumpkin pie as her birthday ācakeā for the past 62 years (it would be 65 but my mother didnāt give me a taste of it until I was no longer a baby). Ā Since my birthday always falls on or within a day or two of Thanksgiving, I am an expert on this.
geg6
@Marmot:
Iām seeing it with my niece and sister today. Ā I hope we donāt find it that way!
matt
I’d vote for Dean Phillips to be given a swirlie long before I’d vote for Dean Phillips. I’d like to see a poll of Democratic primary voters on that question.
Marmot
I am fuming from that doomer threat last night. Specifically, the influence of Adamāwith his PhDs and his NATO and non-NATO alliesāon everybodyās estimation of whether we can beat the fascists again in 2024. He doesnāt know! Itās not his area.
He doesnāt even understand the simple fact that when you gloom about a ātipping pointā that the US has supposedly reached, you demoralize your audience, discourage them from joining the struggle, and make your nightmare scenario more likely. So, heās not an expert in writing for a sensitive audience, either.
Also, he doesnāt know our political strength. Itās not his area. You canāt trust his counsel here.
Marmot
@geg6: I should add that I found it interesting. The backstory is not at all what I would have expected. But the pacing is off.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud:
Itās not; heās a Senator.
Your daily pedant thanks you for the opportunity.
NorthLeft
Shorter Dean Phillips; Ā āMany people are sayingā¦ā
What a cretin. Did I hear correctly that a real Democrat has already come forward to primary him?
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh:
That’s what I said.Ā His constituency isn’t gerrymandered because he’s a Senator.
Baud
@NorthLeft:
Two, I believe.
Geminid
@Rusty: Minnesota State Kelly Morrison was in the Congressman’s class at the private Blake School, and said of Phillips:
I do not think Sen. Morrison meant this as a compliment.
Senstor Morrison is running in the primary for Phillips’ 3rd CD Congressional seat. The primary will be August 13 and the filing deadline is in June, but this morning’s Politico Playbook tells me that Phillips is expected to say if he will run again after the Thanksgiving break.
The 3rd CD is just west of Minneapolis and includes the towns of Minnetonka and Bloomington. Joe Biden carried it by 19 points in 2020.
Barbara
@geg6:Ā āI make a vegan pumpkin pie using a crust that is like a graham cracker crust but using ginger snaps. It’s better than a traditional pie crust IMO.
Van Buren
In 1987 Al Campanis blew up his career in baseball by saying Blacks “may not have the necessities” to be managers and we’re still dealing with this crap? The mind boggles.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Betty Cracker: I can’t open the Talenti containers, so this was not a question for me.
Princess
Kamala Harris has a heck of a lot more foreign policy experience than Dean Phillips, thatās for damned sure.
Iāll admit have concerns of her as a campaigner but that can be tested in a primary ā and if she has to take over from Biden in a hurry thatās not an issue.
They hate her because sheās a Black woman but also because sheās beautiful and sheās made it on her own. Hillary was more acceptable because they could tell themselves it was all due to Bill. Beautiful women arenāt supposed to get anywhere except by being beautiful and theyāre supposed to be beautiful for men, not for themselves. Sheās threatening on every level. The crummy thing is this does not bode well for her chances running independently for president. But again, succeeding Biden in an emergency, sheāll do great.
Matt McIrvin
@Marmot: Adam’s argument is that he knows war, and that what we’re in is a war (World War III, in fact). And we’re losing because we’re not treating it as a war.
Here’s the problem, as I see it.
War is antithetical to democracy, and to justice. That’s not really what war is about. It might be the intended end state, though in practice its track record isn’t great there either. But when you’re in a war, you’ve already lost at democracy and justice. You have to, if not toss them out entirely for the duration, at least severely limit their application.
I’ve been reading a lot of Teri Kanefield’s writing about the prosecution of Trump and his co-conspirators, on Mastodon and on her blog. And Kanefield spends a lot of time trying to talk down people who are impatient about the process, or even think there’s some conspiracy behind its slowness. She argues that the only way we are going to preserve American democracy is to practice the “habits of democracy”, and that includes respecting the rights of the accused and running prosecutions and trials in a lawful manner. She worries about liberals adopting authoritarian mental frames and basically abandoning liberalism. She says the places that have been faster at punishing coup plotters are places with much more authoritarian legal cultures in the first place.
But this is completely incompatible with the “World War III” model. If we’re fighting World War III on a political field, then we’ve got it all upside down and Kanefield’s approach will lead to our destruction–the bad guys will win.
If what we’re trying to do is maintain the habits of democracy, treating it as warfare will lead to our destruction, by rot from within. We’ll end up indistinguishable from the bad guys.
I don’t know the answer, folks.
Geminid
@NorthLeft: Two Democrsts are running for Phillips’ seat: State Senator Kelly Morrison and Minneapolis Resiliance Director Ron Wright.
While he has never held elective office, Mr. Wright has worked on Minnesota campaigns including Al Franken’s, and has been a Democratic National Committee member for seven years.
Marmot
Gonna make rhubarb pie for the first time in my life tomorrow! The kid nā I had given up on it, then thereās a stack of rhubarb just sitting there in the grocery store.
Thatās what The Secret is actually about: The universe wants you to make rhubarb pie.
First time eating it too.
Kay
They’re s-l-o-w-l-y figuring out that they neglected to think about the effects of abortion bans on medical treatment. They’re not changing the laws in response to this error they made. Instead they’re just pretending to care about it:
Anne Laurie
@lowtechcyclist: I second your pumpkin pie recipeĀ — I can’t cook, but I do love pumpkin pie.Ā Our favorite local once-a-year-indulgence bakery also adds just a *touch* of cardamom (Scandinavian influence, I think), which really makes the flavor pop!
Princess
The key ingredient in pumpkin pie imho is a dash of mace.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
The answer is vote blue. Which I’m sure Adam will but some others will come up with an excuse not to.
I’m also morally certain that if the Dems adopted a war posture, there’s be a different set of critics arguing that the Dems are no different from the fascists.
Debate is fine up until it weakens the anti-fascist coalition.
Kay
@Princess:
That’s what’s hilarious about it. This is a comparison between two people – Phillips and Harris. She’s much more experienced than he is by any measure, including the measure of having served as VP, which is the constitutional preparation mechanism. These people seem to think it’s a comparison between Harris and “a person they imagine”. He’s not as experienced as she is. The End.
Princess
@Kay: I have a Catholic friend whoās a fairly decent guy for the most part and probably votes Dem but is adamantly pro ālifeā and was thrilled when Roe fell ā one of his reasons was that he felt the pain of women who had miscarriages would be more adequately supported if it was recognized that they had lost babies, not blobs of cells. I tore strips of him when he said this (before Roe fell). Oh well, he has four sons so he wonāt see his one of own daughters bleeding out in a parking lot.
Marmot
@Matt McIrvin: I am happy to note that where I once considered you a doomer, our run of successes seems to have turned that around.
Anyway, Iām talking about Ā Adamās influence on how this bunch sees its future. He doesnāt know, itās not his area.
I’m accustomed to people who get a lot of deferenceāengineers and doctors, especiallyāand lots of them donāt see when theyāve stepped off their turf. (Many engineers fail to grasp that other specialties exist at all.)
I see that happening here.
Princess
@Kay: Even when I imagine, I canāt imagine someone more qualified than her. Sheās more qualified than Barack Obama was. I donāt need to speak of Trump. She has more foreign policy experience than Bill Clinton and GWB had, and she has executive experience. This is nonsense.
Geminid
@Princess: Besides being the target of misogyny, Vice Pesident Harris is similar to Hilary Clinton in that both are seen as representing the Democratic “Establishment.” I think a lot of the animus directed at her comes from “Progressives” in and out of the party who were disappointed with the 2020 primary outcome. They fear that the same shadowyĀ forces that nominated Joe Biden then will nominate Kamala Harris in 2028.
Eyeroller
@Matt McIrvin: Adam has a lot of expertise in his area of study and practice, but he also has a hammer and looks for nails.Ā I think it’s fair to say that we are back in a Cold War or never really got out of it. The biggest change from e.g. the 1960s is probably the ease of injecting disinformation nowadays.Ā If we took it seriously there are ways we could conduct the current Cold War better, part of which would probably be shoring up relations with poorer countries and not just treating them as pawns on the chessboard of the current version of the Great Game.
OzarkHillbilly
@Marmot:Ā ā Enjoy.
Kay
@Princess:
Ohio, after they passed a 6 week ban but before a court held up the 6 week ban. They refused to treat her and sent her home:
Marmot
@Baud:
I donāt always agree with you. But when I do, itās good.
OzarkHillbilly
Malpractice.
Kay
@Princess:
There’s a kind of nasty snarkiness about Harris that bugs the hell out of me. I think these male mediocrities have actually convinced themselves they’re smarter than she is.
Princess
Adam sounds depressed to me. Not saying heās wrong. But we got from illiberal democracy to better democracy once before and if heās right and weāre back in illiberal land, we can fight to restore better democracy again. If it can be done once it can be done again and there are more of us now.
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
If she called me, I’d tell her to get a doctor to put it in writing. I think she’s at risk of criminal prosecution in states with lesser rights for women and she should prepare to defend on that. Every medically treated miscarriage is a potential prosecution. You just need one religious nut in health care to characterize your miscarriage as an abortion, and there are plenty of them.
Another Scott
@Matt McIrvin: +1
I’ve argued with Adam a few times in the past, but not recently, that his (roughly) “we’re at war with Putin, but nobody wants to say it” language is messy and confused and unhelpful.
I’m old enough to remember the “War on Poverty” and the “War on Crime”.
Even in the Vietnam war, as a kid I wondered why we weren’t fighting to win if we were really in a war??
War is a perfectly good word that has a specific meaning.Ā Applying it to things that are not actually a war – nation states using their national power to overtly kill their enemies and attempt to force loss of territory and changes in political leadership, etc. – to places where that is not happening muddies the water and confuses the thinking necessary to address the actual problem and find the solution.
I didn’t like “Cold War” either, myself, …
We aren’t at war with VVP.Ā A “non-kinetic war” is a contradiction in terms.Ā We are definitely in a conflict with him, of course.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Chief Oshkosh
@Matt McIrvin: I don’t know that responding more effectively to Putin’s decade’s long, full-court press would necessarily be anti-democratic. Our foreign policy is generally the purview of the Executive, admittedly “anti-democratic,” but at least with a history that shows that it can exist without existential loss of liberalism. As C-i-C, Biden could be taking a more aggressive stance with Putin, not only in Ukraine, but elsewhere. But Biden is Biden, which is both good and bad across the variety of challenges he faces (and as would be the case with any President). He’s installed a conservative (small “c”), cautious team. Not to speak for Adam, but his main concern appears to be that Team Cautious worries too much about what Putin might do rather than what he has been and is doing, especially as it’s been demonstrated that Putin always backs down when his efforts are met with physical force.
sab
@lowtechcyclist: Damn. I made mine yesterday and didn’t double the spices.
Barbara
@Princess: āThe key ingredient in my opinion is orange zest, to taste. It makes the flavor shine. It’s an application of the Escoffier principle that desserts made with “orange” colored fruits are enhanced by orange zest and those made with red colored fruits are enhanced by lemon zest (or juice, depending on the recipe).
OzarkHillbilly
The fact is, it is an abortion, iirc a “spontaneous abortion.” Or as I like to say, a god induced abortion.
Marmot
@Princess:
Yes! Thanks. This is what our side actually needs to hear.
sab
@NorthLeft: Well, when the people you hang out with are all at the same country club or Republican operatives, that is what you hear.
Baud
Everyone knows foreign policy qualifications are housed in the penis.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud:
That seems a bit…anti-democratic, so I must be missing your point. Couldn’t one equally argue that we’d be fighting a more violent fascism by taking on Putin on a broader scale and that therefore we shouldn’t continue to debate the issue (which we’ve actually been doing since “the end of the Cold War”) as the resulting inactivity encourages global fascism?
Marmot
@Kay: Kay, thank you for emphasizing the effect of abortion bans on actual womenās health and lives.
The topic makes me so angry I canāt see straight, and I find myself avoiding talking about it. But itās the pin that pops that high-minded save-the-fetuses bullshit balloon.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Marmot: I love rhubarb pie. Or even better, rhubarb crisp.
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh: The existence of a fascist threat inherently reduces our democracy because it requires all other issues to be placed on the back burner to the extent that they interfere with the goal of defeating fascism.
Could someone else appropriate the fight against fascism for their own purposes? Of course. Bush did that with the “war of terror.”Ā But there’s not such thing in my book as treating the fight against fascism as a secondary or tertiary policy issue. We tell other people that they can’t cling to their old habits. That goes for us too.
Chris Johnson
@Princess: There are times when Adam throws me so hard that I think he’s enemy action. On reflection I doubt that, but it’s like he’s a war guy rather than a state guy. Is he ex-military or something?
I’ve read the recent threads and holy mother of yikes, people. I can remember when there was more pushback on Balloon Juice about calls to exterminate all Southerners, or even all Confederates. One of those would be Beau of the Fifth Column who I think is a lot wiser than that.
His take on current events is bleak in a different way: he figures we’re in for renewed trouble because we’re not going to be able to get rid of memories of what Israel did in retaliation to Hamas, and there will be another generation of desperate warriors.
This applies here as more modern forces of state conflict (essentially, economic conflict) wipe out reactionary strongholds. I mean, these days, COVID fights on the side of the liberals, because we’re prepared to take collective personal action to wear masks and have working hospitals and stuff. The reactionaries get what they want and it’s a process of attrition.
Germany passed its tipping point very authoritatively in the 1930s. How long did that last? Some of these things are just not sustainable. Authoritarian rule is a damn fantasy beyond very tiny kingdoms.
The more interesting question is how are we gonna win the peace once we’ve won the war against the fascists among us. I’m really disappointed with everybody here who will not even entertain that question. What are you going to do with the people who are simply going to remain authoritarian followers? Start by not letting them crown a king and rule everyone else. Then what?
Chief Oshkosh
@Kay: Thanks, Kay, for citing that article. Ā For those who may have missed the link:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/11/15/1135882310/miscarriage-hemorrhage-abortion-law-ohio
This would be a great article to give to problematic relatives in preparation for a wonderful Thanksgiving conversation. Maybe even read it aloud at the table.
Sure there’ll be short-term pain, but it’ll produce long-term gain! :)
sab
@Princess: This isn’t new. The Jim Crow South wasn’t democratic even for white people. I remember Jimmy Carter talking about voting in Plains Georgia, where the sheriff looked at your ballot before he put it in the box. If you were a relatively wealthy landowning Carter you could vote bravely. If you weren’t you voted as you were told to vote, assuming you were even allowed to vote.
Nukular Biskits
Good mornin, y’all!
Back on the MS Gulf Coast, to a more or less normal sked.
Anyone ever go through George Bush Intercontinental Airport (IAH)?Ā That has to be the most confusing layout of any airport I’ve ever been in and that’s including LAX.
Matt McIrvin
@Marmot: I consider it entirely possible that there is no solution, and the United States will break up, be physically devastated, or just become an authoritarian “managed democracy” within the next 10 years or so. Large chunks of it clearly already are the third thing.
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
MS says, “Hold my beer!”
Baud
@Chris Johnson:
You can’t protect a democracy against its own people.Ā But I think we know what the first things to do are, and the first and foremost is democracy reform to weaken the structural advantages that Republicans have.
Geminid
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I love the meaning of “rhubarb” in baseball lingo. It denotes a fierce argument between players, managers and umpires. Their faces often turn red.
Kathleen
@Chris Johnson: Brilliant question worth pondering. Thank you.
Matt McIrvin
@Chris Johnson:
There’s no obvious candidate for an international anti-fascist coalition to bomb and invade us out of our delusions, this time. Maybe if we actually became a global aggressor as a result of the transition, but today’s American fascists have an isolationist streak.
Nukular Biskits
@Joe Falco:
Care to share that recipe?
And ever had a chocolate chip pecan pie?
catclub
Based on some of his votes and hard questioning of Trump’s Judicial candidates, Kennedy is better than the average GOP senator.Ā Extremely low bar.
Anne Laurie
The *only* time I have set foot in Texas was a layover at IAH, twenty-three years ago.Ā I had a nasty head cold, the place was ‘under construction’, and some kind of Up-with-People ‘joyful testifying’ evangelical religious cult had approximately seven thousand very young noisy members also in transit from one city to another.
I’m not a good traveller at the best of times, but I actually re-arranged my return trip so I wouldn’t have to repeat the horror of that long afternoon / evening.
lowtechcyclist
@geg6:
We apparently have a religious difference with respect to this.Ā I think it’s a natural fit.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud:
But have we ever lived in a time whether there wasn’t a fascist threat? I’d say that we have not, and thus there’s always a need to balance our desire for more democratic, participatory governance versus the need for more immediate and focused action. The balance shifts with circumstances. It seems that you’re suggesting that debate is all well and good, but let’s recognize that Trump and the GOP are an existential, fascist threat. I agree entirely (and apologies if I’m misunderstanding you here).
Separately, I agree with Adam (or rather, what I think Adam is saying), that Putin is also an existential, fascist threat. And I agree that we continue to debate this too much, to the point that we’re not responding to, not even recognizing, the degradation of democracy globally.
Further, I don’t think these two stances are incompatible. I think that both fascist threats are completely intertwined and symbiotic (at this point, anyway). Arguably they are different heads of the same Hydra.
opiejeanne
@lowtechcyclist: We make the graham cracker crust with gingersnaps instead of graham crackers, and because there are two people in the party tomorrow who need to avoid gluten, I use Tate’s ginger zingers with candied ginger in them.
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh:
Then we should stop hyperventilating about Trump and theĀ modern GOP.Ā We’re lying to people.
Right. And that requires decent people to act in ways that they would otherwise not if we had a stable democracy
Yes, but we can’t make the Putin threat as easily or cleanly as we can domestic fascism.
lowtechcyclist
@Anne Laurie:
Thanks for the tip – I’ll have to try that!
@Princess:
I’ll have to try this one, too!
Marmot
@Matt McIrvin: Then perhaps I spoke too soon.
Eyeroller
@lowtechcyclist: We’ll have to agree to disagree there, though it is true that pumpkin pie is essentially a kind of custard pie and graham-cracker crusts are often used for those.Ā But I was intrigued by a commenter’s use of ginger snaps.Ā I would think those would go very well, since ginger is a prominent component of “pumpkin pie spice.”
Nukular Biskits
Gonna touch on this and get crackin’ (I have my trip report and expenses to do, plus I need to ship out the box o’ poo for the Cologard test … sharing is caring!).
Lots of commentary about Adam’s “doom/gloom”.Ā I get where some of you are coming from but, IMHO, Adam is not far off the mark in his assessments.Ā For example, witness the significant percentage of Americans (mostly on the ideological right) who think that committing acts of political violence is not only acceptable but justifiable. Witness the absolute refusal of the majority of a major political party to stand up and oppose fascist elements.Ā The list goes on and on.
I don’t know Adam’s expertise and experience in detail, but he is a learned man and his military experience/education/expertise is more likely than not to be informed by an exacting study of history.Ā I feel pretty confident in asserting he isn’t just “doomsaying” here but that he is genuinely concerned about the path this country may be taking.
I happen to agree with him but that’s also largely because of my environment; i.e., here on the MS Gulf Coast I’m surrounded by backwoods redneck Bubbas who are still butthurt about an “N-word” being elected president and the 2020 election being “stolen” from Trump.Ā And the MS Gulf Coast is downright cosmopolitan compared to BFE, MS, where I grew up and still have friends/family.
Again, I submit that Adam’s concerns are warranted.
Frankensteinbeck
@Marmot:
I continually struggle with this. Ā I hate, hate, hate insulting a person who is incredibly good in his specialty, gives us vast amounts of useful information, and is operating in good faith. Ā I am grateful to have him.
At the same time, his experience dealing with competent, rational enemies does not translate well to US politics. Ā His concrete predictions rarely come true, thank goodness. Ā He certainly depresses the Hell out of commenters.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Betty Cracker: Bought the makings of pie yesterday and itās mine, all mine! I like a mincemeat pie in this season, but nobody else does. So Iāll make it next week.
My wife will make something nice for the family.
Marmot
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I saw a recipe for rhubarb crisp while trying to figure out how much to buy! We havenāt started, so maybe a change of course is in order.
Baud
@Nukular Biskits: I haven’t followed this closely, but I get the sense that Adam isn’t identifying “concerns”, which most of us would agree with, but is going further in his assessment of where things stand and how they are likely to play out.
Another Scott
@Marmot: Hah!
:-)
Matt makes really good points, but does indeed bring out the DoomMaster 2000 on occasion.Ā ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
On topic – I seem to get 2-3 spammy e-mails from Dean every day.Ā They automagically go directly in my spam folder so I never have to read them.
Hooray for working technology!
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@Another Scott:
lol
Betty Cracker
@Princess:
That’s about where I land. I think Adam makes a convincing case that we’re back in illiberal land. I don’t think he’s trying to demoralize anyone. Maybe people who see it that way are misunderstanding his point, which is that we have to see the situation clearly so we know how to fix it. “Vote for Dems” is a major part of fixing it, but it’s not the entirety of it.
Perhaps it’s easier for those of us who live in red states to see it, but conservatives have rigged the system to disconnect votes from results. It’s deliberate. The filibuster and gerrymandering are just two examples of how they do it, but no matter where you live, it negatively affects your life.
Disconnecting votes from results smothers democracy in two ways. First, it keeps lawmakers who are elected by the majority from delivering and thus contributing to a functional democracy. Second, it erodes democracy by undermining faith in it. Voters need to understand WHY and HOW democracy is being subverted or they won’t bother to vote.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
As a voting advocate, I agree. But I would say it’s voting is an essential part if the goal is to avoid having to claw our way back from an even bigger hole.
Marmot
@Nukular Biskits: I donāt doubt his concern. Itās his accuracy on political matters, and the effect his offhand doominess has on morale and ultimate effectiveness, which he seems not to have given any thought about.
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
Not trying to be argumentative here, but that’s a difference without a distinction, IMHO.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but at the same time, Adam’s background, experience and SME (or at least what I know of it) informs his opinions.Ā I’m obviously putting words in his mouth here (and for that I apologize in advance), but he sees parallels from both history and in current events in other countries.
As someone else above said, the best and only remedy is to vote blue.
Chris Johnson
@Chief Oshkosh: My synthesis of this stuff is that Adam is 100% right about Putin actively waging WWIII, against us, and it’s no joke.
Thing is, it’s not his military action that has been successful. It’s his troll brigades and the installment of a President and his continued ability to twist the discourse.
As such, I’m just really suspicious of ‘debate’ right now. From back before 2016, that has served as a cloak for parroting Russian talking points designed with some care to split and disintegrate the elaborate, balky machine that is America.
In particular, I’m just reflexively on full alert when people invoke the inevitability and finality of race warā¦ and civil war. It is the primary wedge being actively used to shatter democracy, and calling for the extermination of Confederatesā¦ or Republicansā¦ or MAGAS!ā¦ is just furthering that framing.
The thing is, authoritarianism is fragile in that way, and that’s why a Putin views it as an unbeatable wedge (and probably why Adam also views it as so very significant). But democracy is not authoritarian, democracy is a source of endless gripes and bitchingā¦ and democracy is chaos-tolerant to a far greater degree than authoritarianism. This is why they have to fight it so hard to get their way.
Failed, partial justice is VERY HARD to dissuade. Authoritarianism is brittle. Maybe don’t forget that. How long did Germany’s big attempt last, again? I think we were in Iraq longer than that. Very possibly Putin has been waging war on us for longer than that, and he’s still losing.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I agree. It’s necessary but not sufficient.
Nukular Biskits
@Marmot:
Then your argument is more about how Adam’s opinions/assessments are being perceived and their impact, not whether they have merit or not.
With all due respect, I see this kind argument every single day at work.Ā I’m part of a multi-contractor environment, a “team”.Ā Much anguish has been expressed by upper mgmt about the impact of “negativity” on morale without any acknowledgement of WHY things are the way they are or any efforts to address the core issues.Ā Cue the “Everything is Awesome!” song from the Lego movie.
I think that it’s fair game to point out Adam’s expertise doesn’t necessarily extend to the political arena here in the US, but it’s foolish in the extreme to dismiss his analysis as doomsaying.
Omnes Omnibus
@Betty Cracker: I live in a state (WI) that many people wrote off as have turned red just a few years ago.Ā The people here recognized what had happened in the 2010 election that brought in Scott Walker and the rest of his ilk.Ā We fought back over the past decade and have won a number of statewide elections since then.Ā As a result, the state supreme court heard arguments yesterday in a case attacking the states gerrymandered districts.Ā If the result of that case goes as expected, the state’s legislative districts will be redrawn in a way that actually reflects the balance in the state.*Ā It can be done.
*WI is an odd purple state though.Ā It is not purple because it is full of moderate swing voters.Ā Instead, it is close to 50/50 between bright, bright red and deep, deep blue.Ā That’s why we can have Bob La Follette and Joe McCarthy, Tammy Baldwin and Ron Johnson, and other weird combos of progressive and regressive.
RevRick
@Kirk: White male supremacy is the motherās milk of European civilization.
Marmot
@Nukular Biskits:
No. He expresses doom where itās not destiny. And if thatās not his intention, then heās careless with words. And that illustrates another area thatās not his specialty.
schrodingers_cat
@Marmot: Agreed. Adam is not always right. He was way too deferential to Trump’s generals and how they were going to hold the line. He couldn’t admit until much later that the Warrior Monk’s feet were made of clay.
I did read yesterday’s doomer thread. All that browbeating but no one addressed the elephant in the room of why the Republicans are still effective. They are effective because their voters and sympathizers(mostly white and mostly well off) have more pull than their mere numbers suggest.
Nukular Biskits
@Marmot:
Okay … So, how do you propose he address these concerns and correctly note the historical parallels of other democracies that fell into fascist authoritarian regimes without being so negative?
topclimber
@Baud: Did I miss the details about how exactlyĀ decent people need “to act in ways that they would otherwise not if we had a stable democracy?” Outside of controlling debate within the Dem party so we have a united front, which, good luck with and also NO.
Betty Cracker
@Nukular Biskits: A spray of colorful balloons and festive hats can work wonders. Just saying!
Omnes Omnibus
@Nukular Biskits: Jay Rosen has argued that journalists should focus on āthe stakes and not the odds” when talking about elections.Ā I think that is a good way of discussing the issues in front of us.Ā I don’t want to specifically talk about Adam’s posts and style because he isn’t here and I don’t want to talk behind someone’s back.Ā Many of us have areas of expertise and areas where we are just some person talking about stuff on the internet.Ā We all, as content producers and consumers, should try to be aware of the distinction.
Baud
@topclimber: Debate is fine. Threatening to take your
ballvote and go home if you lose a debate, or because you haven’t wone the debate as quickly as you wanted to, is not.Nukular Biskits
@Betty Cracker:
LOL!Ā You forgot the management cure-all for any/every workplace issue: The pizza party.
Frankensteinbeck
@schrodingers_cat:
Didn’t they?Ā The generals did what every military person here, not just Adam, told me would happen.Ā They were generally deferential to the commander-in-chief, avoided speaking out about politics (including telling how bad he was) like the plague, and refused to commit illegal orders.Ā No shooting people at the border.Ā They told him there would not be a military coup, and he was pissed about it, and no matter who he put in they still wouldn’t go along with it.Ā They didn’t tell us he wanted it until much later, sure, but they refused to take part.Ā Supposedly they even talked him down off of several of his crazier international military ideas, although I personally think that’s not hard. Trump likes to say things he thinks sound tough, but he’s an utter coward.
Juju
@geg6: Nicely put. Ā Iām giving you a lovely golf clap. š
Omnes Omnibus
@Frankensteinbeck: Kelly, Mattis, and McMaster (the generals who affirmatively joined his admin) were rather disappointing.Ā The less said about Flynn, the better.Ā OTOH you are right that the serving officers did their jobs properly and held the line.*
*Milley’s walk with Trump is an exception.Ā He realized it and apologized for it in a speech at the Army War College.
Matt McIrvin
@Chris Johnson: If Hitler had no military enemies strong enough to conquer him from outside, his empire could have lasted for a long time. Sure, it was internally shambolic in many ways. But it could enforce compliance.
The more relevant example is probably the authoritarian managed democracy that existed on United States soil for about 90 years, the post-Reconstruction Jim Crow system. There were multiple Constitutional amendments explicitly saying that was illegal and it was there anyway, and everyone who was white pretty much accepted it with a shrug until the middle of the 20th century.
But it went down without a lot of violence on the part of its opponents (there was plenty of piecemeal violence by its supporters, and enforcement by armed threat was applied by the US government in some instances). We didn’t have to burn the South again.
Geminid
@Omnes Omnibus: I am looking forward to General Milley’s memoirs. I don’t think Milley will wait too long to tell his side of events in the Trump administration, especially the last month.
mrmoshpotato
Has Deany-boy considered the Sun for toasting his pile of shit, ratfucking, racist, shitass?
Juju
@Princess: If you do a blind sniff test, can you tell the difference between mace and nutmeg?
schrodingers_cat
@Frankensteinbeck:Ā Omnes Omnibus:
I should have been clearer, the generals I was referring to were the ones that O^2 is talking about, the ones who were the cabinet secretaries.
They enabled him and leant himĀ respectability in the eyes of many. One example, the photo-op where they were standing behind him when he signed his infamous Muslim ban.
I am talking about Mattis, McMaster and Kelly
And I did mention Mattis in my original comment.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: FWIW I am glad you are sticking around.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Thanks. My typing fingers were itching in that doomy thread last night.
Wapiti
@Eyeroller: We’ve done a ginger-snap crust in the past, it was quite nice; better than a normal crust.
These days the spouse and I greatly simplify things, to get a similar flavor profile: gingerbread, topped with pumpkin gelato, garnished with whipped cream.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: I ventured in and regretted it.Ā Sometimes just walking away is the right approach.
Chris Johnson
@schrodingers_cat: Likewise, and I sure don’t agree with you on all things. But I’ve got an uncle who is from India and married my Dad’s sister, which turned into a window onto other cultures for a white-bread suburban kid, and that means I can never see you only as ‘person who attacks stuff I think very important’. You’re also ‘person with a point of view and lots of information on things I know nothing of’.
I think that’s extremely American, so I’m willing to embrace the chaos if you are ;)
India is very important. It’s gonna be counted among the superpowers, if it’s not already. I’m up for knowing more about what goes on in its politics, and that’s something cat can often provide in a way others cannot.
Snowlan
@Baud: glad you managed to get this in first!ā¦ US Senate seats as you know, are the whole state, regardless of the state. They canāt be gerrymandered, since they always embrace the whole state!
schrodingers_cat
@Chris Johnson: Thanks so much Chris for your vote of confidence.
cain
@Geminid:
They are right – there is a shadowy force – people you can’t see or touch. It’s called the voting electorate.
VFX Lurker
@schrodingers_cat: I’m glad you’re still here, too. I learn a lot from your posts.
azlib
I have a lot of respect for Adam and read his posts religiously. His military and intelligence analysis is excellent. His point about the Israeli/Hamas war fracturing the Biden coalition on generational lines is on target. It has certainly created stresses, but I do not think it will break the coalition.
I believe negative partisanship is a much bigger factor. I talk to a number of Dems who bring up Biden’s age as well as Kamala being a problem. They go into long monologues about how they wish for a better Dem candidate and wish Biden would dump Kamala for reasons unknown. My simple answer is Biden/Harris will be the Dem candidates, full stop and if that is the case who will they vote for? There answer even while grumbling is they will vote Biden/Harris. Basically, these folks might not like Biden and think he is too old, but given the binary choice between him and Trump, they will vote Biden every time.
We Dems have a lot of work to do to win in 2024 and the most important thing we need to do is get our voters and Dem leaning voters to the polls. We do have an important ally in Trump since he is so awful and transparent about his authoritarian impulses. We are fortunate he not smarter politically.