Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

White supremacy is terrorism.

We’re not going back!

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

The new republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

We are aware of all internet traditions.

If you are in line to indict donald trump, stay in line.

Never forget that he train is barreling down on Trump, even as he dances on the tracks.

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

This fight is for everything.

“Let’s not pretend [Trump] wants to engage in high-minded discourse.”

Can we lighten up on the doomsday scenarios?

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

“Loving your country does not mean lying about it’s history.”

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. don’t touch it.”

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Friday Morning Open Thread: Holiday Hangover Day

Friday Morning Open Thread: Holiday Hangover Day

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Condolences to those who have to work-for-pay today, especially if it involves going in to an otherwise deserted office. Also to those who are recovering from the stress, physical or emotional, of the holiday itself. If it makes you feel any better about *your* celebratory choices:



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Reader Interactions

176Comments

  1. 1.

    OzarkHillbilly

    The only thing I know about Britney Spears and Taylor Swift is that one of them is dating Travis Kelce. I think it’s TS but I could be wrong.

  2. 2.

    raven

    Well I’m going down to fish in the gulf but my balance issues have relegated me to casting from the beach and staying out of the water.

  4. 4.

    Baud

    President Biden did the polar plunge today. What did Donald Trump do?

    So we know Biden is not a witch. What about the other guy?

  5. 5.

    Facebones

    Honestly depressing that Biden could create a lasting peace in the Middle East, but still lose an election if the price of car juice gets too high.

  8. 8.

    mali muso

    Happy day after to all.  In our household, this week is always one of multiple celebrations as the kiddo had her birthday yesterday and the spousal unit has his today, and they always fall on or around Turkey Day.  Thankfully, the fridge is full of tasty leftovers including slices of pie, so no further cooking will be required today.

    Have others noticed the lengthening of Black Friday into a mini “season”?  I have picked up a few doorbuster sales from stores throughout the past week without having to fight crazy crowds.  If we’re going to do the whole retail thing, this seems a more humane way.  I do plan to patronize local shops tomorrow for small business saturday and try to do the majority of my Xmas gift buying.

  10. 10.

    artem1s

    Frankly I’m relieved that the POTUS doesn’t really know the difference between a couple of performers. Leaders of great nations shouldn’t have to worry about winning a game of Celebrity Trivial Pursuit.

  11. 11.

    mali muso

    @Baud: ​
     True. For me the prevalence of “order online, pick up at the store within the day” has been the biggest game changer.

  14. 14.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud: You’ll be pleased to know that my friend who earlier had suggested Sherrod Brown replace Biden on the ticket has a new candidate: J. B. Pritzker. 😂

  18. 18.

    Phylllis

    It has been the season of batteries and bulbs here. The porch bulb burned out Tuesday evening, the same day we discovered the little ceramic tree needed new batteries. We hit large evil conglomerate home store for batteries/bulbs on the way to pick up our meal fixings Wednesday. Of course, Wednesday evening is when one of my kitchen task light bulbs decided to give up the ghost. I hated the idea of ordering bulbs from Amazon, but hated the idea of braving the large evil et al again either today or tomorrow more.

  21. 21.

    RevRick

    If you want to see Murc’s* Law in action, go to the comments on X in response to the Lincoln Project post.
    *Murc’s Law: only Democrats have agency. They’re responsible for the failure of the GOP.

    Corollary: Only the US has agency in the world. We’re responsible for the bad things other nations do.

  22. 22.

    RevRick

    @Baud: It obviously got under his skin, because, true or not, it portrays him in a demeaning, submissive posture. And his narcissism can’t abide that.

  24. 24.

    Betty Cracker

    I hope everyone had a great Family Dysfunction Awareness Day! And safe travels if traveling!

    I can report from conversations with right-wing relatives that there’s a new twist on wingnut media’s election season OMG CARAVANS! narrative: Now it’s HAMAS caravans pouring through Joe Biden’s open border.

    Their plan is to disperse throughout the states, even to places like Sopchoppy, FL (y’all think I’m kidding — it’s real!) and carry out a 10/7 style attack on a predetermined date, murdering us in our beds, probably on Christmas because they hate Jesus.

  26. 26.

    Princess

    It’s so odd that he voluntarily brought up the peepee  tapes again. I never believed in them but the more he talks about it the more I think there must be something there. But what a mental image to leave in your own voters’ minds even as you’re denying it.

  28. 28.

    Princess

    @Betty Cracker: Ah, that’s why Fox immediately insisted that the Bentley that blew up in Niagara was a terrorist car loaded with explosives.

    I don’t know what to do with that level of fact-free paranoia. Given the widespread availability of guns and the lack of mental health services it’s not inconceivable that someone will shoot and people up n a Hamaslike way, and then they’ll feel the full breadth of the conspiracy is troooooooo.

  29. 29.

    sab

    Our adopted pitbull got to see some of her original family for Thanksgiving, including her favorite teenage boy. She went a bit berserk with happiness. Hopefully that made up for the shock of us vaccuuming up her dog biscuit crumbs all over the house that morning. She barked as he was leaving.

  31. 31.

    p.a.

    @Betty Cracker:   Now it’s HAMAS caravans pouring through Joe Biden’s open border.

     

    And when it doesn’t happen: recalibration! à la the world is ending on xx/yy/zzzz schmucks.

     

    Also too, this means it’s (yet another) dangerous time for Arabs- of course- and male sikhs.  And others: my neighbor is Armenian, and boy does he hate the TSA.

  32. 32.

    Matt McIrvin

    @OzarkHillbilly: There was a rumor a few years ago about the Russians having kompromat on Trump in the form of some kind of pee-fetish video. I forget if it was in the Steele dossier.

  34. 34.

    OzarkHillbilly

    .‘Your wife wants to see you’: 18th-century Spanish letters seized at sea by British published online

    The papers are among documents and artefacts from about 130 Spanish ships captured by the British during the war of Jenkins’ Ear (1739–48) and the war of the Austrian succession (1740–48), the first tranche of which are now available online through the Prize Papers project.
    José Pascual Marco, the Spanish ambassador to the UK, said the papers were invaluable “to understand the world, in its fine grain, in its flesh and blood, in its complexity – and that is what we have in these papers”. They provided, he said, “the human story of the Americas”.
    Between 1652 and 1815, British privateers and naval vessels captured roughly 35,000 ships. They seized hundreds of thousands of papers, including 160,000 undelivered letters in 20 languages that survive to this day as the Prize Papers, which are being digitised in a 20-year joint project between the UK’s National Archives and the University of Oldenburg in Germany.
    The newly released Spanish papers include two beautifully illustrated volumes from the Nuestra Señora de Covadonga, a treasure galleon captured on the way from Acapulco to Manila in 1743, whose cargo included a fortune in silver minted as reals and pesos. Others include a dispatch to the governor of the Philippines in 1742, on behalf of King Philip V, instructing him to grant refuge to Danish ships.

    Also, letters from ordinary folks to other ordinary folks. Pretty cool snapshots of life back then.​

  35. 35.

    p.a.

    @Matt McIrvin: Much as I’d like to believe it, if true I think his domestic dalliances would have mentioned that proclivity also.  Unless he was manipulated into it by Putin’s tools as a one-time thing.

  36. 36.

    evodevo

    Normies I know have NO idea what the price of crude is, or how the market works, or where gasoline refined in Houston is sold…all they know is, that their giant pickup/suv is costing them more the past couple years…not enough to get a smaller vehicle, but still…LOL

    They also have conveniently forgotten what gas/crude prices were in 2008, or that it was at an almost 20 yr low the year BEFORE Trumpy took office…funny how that works…

  37. 37.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @OzarkHillbilly: Historians must be beside themselves over those letters. That kind of data is so rare. I’m jealous of them and I’m not a historian.

    On another note, we had a great Thanksgiving with our son and DIL, and afterwards we were so tired, we drove home in silence, put our PJs on, and waited for it to be 9:00 so we could go to bed. I can’t believe how much stuff like that wears me out now. Maybe I need more exercise.

  40. 40.

    RevRick

    @RandomMonster: Black Friday? We tried that once, when our son was in college and he wanted a specific set of speakers, so we drove to Circuit City, found out they didn’t have them in stock and wouldn’t before Christmas, was horrified by the checkout line, and took 45 minutes to exit the parking lot. Never again!
    This year, the only in-store Christmas shopping my wife did was go to buy fabric at Dollar Tree for a project she saw on Pinterest, so she’s going nuts making Star ornaments for her sisters, my SIL, and a slew of friends and neighbors.

    Other than that, it’s strictly online.

  42. 42.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @p.a.: ​Much as I’d like to believe it, if true I think his domestic dalliances would have mentioned that proclivity also.

    I think it might well be the last thing he would do with a wife or GF, only indulging in his perversions with anonymous women who are paid to do whatever he wants and keep their mouths shut. Of course, all his wives are paid to do whatever he wants and keep their mouths shut too, so who knows.​

  43. 43.

    Citizen Scientist

    Good morning all; I hope you had a safe and thankful holiday.

    not sure if anyone caught the news out of Dublin – apparently there was a knife attack on a teacher and about 4 students, reportedly by an immigrant (the Gardai aren’t releasing much info).  An immigrant from Brazil reportedly stopped the guy but the far right took that as an excuse to riot, loot, and burn a little.  So effing sick of their shit.

    anyway, hope you all have a peaceful Friday.  Let’s win for democracy in ‘24.

  44. 44.

    prostratedragon

    @Matt McIrvin:  I heard it that he had the women pee on the bed where Obama slept on his visit to Russia, which seems wholly in character for him. So what he’s denying so loudly is not what was originally reported.

  45. 45.

    RevRick

    @evodevo: Americans generally seem to have the memory of a goldfish: about ten seconds. On top of that they believe that the President is in charge of everything, so obviously inflation is entirely Biden’s fault, the fact that worldwide inflation was higher, notwithstanding.

  47. 47.

    Geminid

    @zhena gogolia: I ran into a funny parody account on Twitter called “Nomadic Warriors for Pritzger.” Their heading shows the Illinois Governor decked out in Mongol armor complete with pointy brass helmet. Pritzger is smiling, but the hawk on his mailed forearm looks really menacing.

  49. 49.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Princess:

    I don’t know what to do with that level of fact-free paranoia.

    There’s a large group of our fellow citizens who simply don’t recognize facts any more, don’t understand cause-and-effect, and don’t have good judgement. Trump normalized wacko to the point that The True Believers almost have to instantly and loudly and widely proclaim their belief in the latest wacko shit in order to remain accepted in the cult of The True Believers. In addition to Trump, Covid and follow-on events somehow added to the numbers of wackos.

    Reminds me of the various zombie genre movies…

  50. 50.

    narya

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: My grandfather was an anarchist. When he died, my grandmother just threw out his letters, including letters exchanged w/ someone who edited an Italian-language anarchist newspaper for years (and who was profiled in the Village Voice). When I mentioned this to a grad school friend who studied anarchism, he just moaned.

  51. 51.

    Betty Cracker

    Last week, Argentina elected a far-right kook with stupid hair. This week, the Netherlands elected a far-right kook with stupid hair. Let’s hope that’s the end of it and there will be no more far-right kooks with stupid hair elected in the coming year.

  52. 52.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @narya: ​ I groaned just reading your comment.

    My little brother has every letter my mother sent to my father during his stint in the Korean war. He saved them all. IIRC, 5 shoe boxes full, one for every day he was there. Some of them were rather salacious.

  53. 53.

    artem1s

    @p.a.:

    if true I think his domestic dalliances would have mentioned that proclivity also.

    except it wasn’t about his sexual proclivities at all. It was about his obsession with outdoing and undoing all the work of the Obama administration. The rumor was TIFG hired hookers so he could watch them pee on the bed that the Obama’s slept in when they made their state visit to Russia. And Putin has a copy of them and has been using them to ‘influence’ his puppet POTUS.

    It would have been an obviously made up wingnut theory except nothing that we’d normally think was obviously made up can be excluded as out of the realm of possibility with TIFG. and in his case sounds like something right up his alley.

  54. 54.

    frosty

    @Betty Cracker: Family Dysfunction Awareness Day

    Love this! Sadly, I wasn’t able to participate. We went to my brother’s house again this year where he hosts his wife’s siblings, spouses, kids, etc. Our sons and nephews couldn’t make it this year. Unfortunately, everyone in the house is a Trump hater, so we didn’t have any Family Disfunction to be Aware of.

    Made for a pretty fun day though, if a bit overwhelming for us introverts after awhile.

  55. 55.

    Princess

    @artem1s: The fact that Trump is bringing this up again NOW, when no one else is thinking about it at all, makes me wonder if Putin is leaning on him again about it.

  56. 56.

    Geminid

    @RevRick: According to the story reported by former British intelligence official Michael Steele, the women in question did not pee on Trump but rather on the bed President Obama had slept in, while Trump watched. I thought the more salacious version tended to discredit this part of the “Steele Dossier” and by extension, the whole of it.

  58. 58.

    p.a.

    @artem1s: oy, had not heard/intentionally scrubbed from my memory that angle!😳🤢

    Since my nickname for him is “orange shitstain” I find this eminently believable.

  61. 61.

    StringOnAStick

    @Geminid: I think your theory that it got fed to Steele as a story that would discredit the whole dossier is a good one.  It is odd though that he keeps bringing it up, that makes me think “hmm, every accusation is a confession from these guys” so I don’t know .  If peeing on the bed Obama slept in was the goal, he could have walked up, pulled it out and done it himself.  If it happened at all I suspect the two hookers were hired by Russians to put on quite the lascivious show in the process because they knew they could get the mango moron to watch that.  Peep show plus pee show!

  62. 62.

    narya

    @OzarkHillbilly: One of my personal regrets is that I didn’t really get to talk to my grandfather about his anarchism in any depth. Although we all talked “politics” when I was growing up, he didn’t really talk about/preach his anarchism, so I don’t know how he came to it. My father tells the story of going to the yearly anarchist picnics when he started dating my mom, and, when he’d join a circle of people, suddenly the conversation would turn to the weather.

  63. 63.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @OzarkHillbilly: I once read through the collection of Benjamin Franklin’s letters from about that period and I remember being struck with how slow and difficult it was to correspond with Europe. Due to weather or pirates, your letter saying “there is a five shilling error in this bill” might take six months to get to England, if it gets there at all, with another six months for the reply.

  68. 68.

    artem1s

    @Josie:

     I’m wondering if it all has a connection to lead in house paint and in water pipes

    forget the water pipes and paint. the lead problem was in our gasoline up until 1995. 70-80 years of gas exhaust spewing fumes onto roads, parking lots, farms, garage floors, seeping out of gas station tanks, and settling into the soil. those old commercials with black babies chewing on paint chips only served to place in public’s mind that the problem was an ‘urban’ issues that was the result of slovenly parenting. very little research was ever done to determine the low lead exposure in rural farming communities for instance. wouldn’t want the public to link papaw’s dementia with the beloved oil and gas industry in Texas, would we? or the hotrod T-Birds everyone in the 70’s thought were so coo-el.

  69. 69.

    TriassicSands

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I know next to nothing about either of them (and care even less) and would be happy if I’d never heard either name. Neither one is remotely important in my life and I dare say that Biden didn’t “confuse one for the other” so much as he simply doesn’t think either one is such a critical part of his life or current responsibilities that he has to make sure he’s sure what each one is doing 24 hours a day.

  70. 70.

    zhena gogolia

    @StringOnAStick: I think geminid is saying that the version in which they peed ON TRUMP is not what was in the dossier — that was that he watched them pee on Obama’s bed, which is much more believable. So the less believable one got circulated instead of what was actually in the dossier.

  71. 71.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: I don’t know much about the situation in Argentina, but my impression is that outcome was more about inflation and anger at the incumbent ruling party. The culture war bullshit that was definitely part of the Argentine right-wing kook’s campaign was maybe more of a condiment than the main course? Whereas the outcome in the Netherlands was the reverse? I need to read up on it, but this Geert Wilders character has been an anti-Islam demagogue for decades.

  72. 72.

    StringOnAStick

    We did thanksgiving at some friends home, so we got to watch their extended family dysfunction instead of our own.  Luckily for me I had some minor eardrum surgery that has left me pretty damned deaf, hopefully only temporarily.  Our friend is a recovering alcoholic and his wife doesn’t drink, but our friend’s sister and her husband are full blown alcoholics who spend all their spare time in their local small town bar so of course they are total Fox bots.

    My husband told me later that our friend (solid liberal D) got into it with his sister about EV’s being worse for global warming, and not in the sense Martin preaches here, but as a hit on CA, claiming all the electricity generated there is natural gas and coal power plants, which is easily refuted but she only believes Fox Facts no matter what reputable source you show her.  And she’s a drunken alcoholic so she’s an utter shit about it too.

    My husband said he was glad I didn’t hear any of it, probably because in a non deaf state I would have shredded her.  I appreciate how our friend stays close to his drunken wingnut siblings and maybe I’m a bad person for cutting mine out of my life, but so far I feel no guilt, only peace!

  73. 73.

    Trivia Man

    @RevRick: Correction: the allegation is more personal and leaves TFIG dry. While in Moscow, he paid hookers to piss on the bed Obama used when he was visiting Moscow.
    “I’m a germaphobe” doesn’t help in that case, just makes it more likely to be true.

    bonus comment – “Melania told me that’s the one story she doesn’t believe” I can only hear as “she believes all the other bad stories about me”.

  76. 76.

    hueyplong

    The various “golden” scenarios distract us from what Trump is saying and doing in this decade. The only tall tale about him that lacks credibility is one in which he is solicitous of the feelings or circumstances of another human being.

  77. 77.

    HeleninEire

    @Citizen Scientist: I’ve been following it all night and into this morning. I know those streets and it breaks my heart. Luckily I was able to confirm that all my friends are safe. And all of them are absolutely appalled at the actions of their fellow Irish citizens. The place where the attack took place (Parnell Square) is only a stones throw away from a neighborhood that has a lot of disaffected youth in it. They were just itching for a reason to riot. And they only had to walk 7 minutes from home to start their riots.

    The only saving grace is that the Irish don’t have nearly the same access to guns that we do so the injuries were less lethal, both at the school and in the aftermath.

  78. 78.

    StringOnAStick

    @Betty Cracker: Argentina’s election was about the incredibly high inflation there, an ongoing intractable multi decade problem that has destroyed their middle class.  The Netherlands issue is maybe a little about inflation, which compared to Argentina’s gaping wound is just a paper cut, but mostly about anti Muslim immigration.  Different excuses to end up with the same result.

    It is so sad, I loved it when I travelled in Argentina a few years ago.  Given their economic problems I don’t think they are a popular choice for immigration.

  79. 79.

    Ken

    I see I’m not alone in having more-or-less forgotten the Steele dossier and the pee tapes. Thank goodness for the Streisand Effect.

  80. 80.

    Geminid

    @StringOnAStick: I don’t neccesarily think the story was fed to Steele in order to discredit his “dossier;” it was one of many reports Steele had collected from sources he had found trustworthy on other matters, and that he believed cumulatively raised a big red flag. But the effect of this story was to discredit his report in general, even though it was a relatively insignificant part of the whole.

    Steele acted as a collector of intelligence for his clients, Had he been a joumalist he might have edited this particular story out before releasing the report to the public.

    After the dossier was released, I noticed that Steele, who looks like he could be James Bond’s nephew, would not comment on it. I also noticed that the people who threatened to sue or even prosecute Steele never tried to follow through.

  81. 81.

    EireIAm (formerly Fled the US)

    @HeleninEire: We moved her about 5 years ago and live down south of the canal. It’s been awful watching the images from center city last night. Flashbacks to J6 (my first job was in a building that overlooked the capitol building) and utter horror at what I was seeing.

    Things seem much calmer today but still pretty tense. It’s been a bit of a relief, though, that there hasn’t been any ‘good people on both sides’ BS, though. Even the Taoiseach, who I find a bit mealy mouthed on occasion, has come out with a fairly strong statement against the violence.

  82. 82.

    oldgold

    The good news and bad news from my Thanksgiving gathering of 2 dozen family members is this. Good News: Everyone is a Democrat and detests Trump. Bad News: All, but a few, are  worried about Biden for a reason very few here seem to think is a real thing.

  83. 83.

    Geminid

    @zhena gogolia: Well, I see a difference between someone watching a woman pee and having one pee on himself. And while I have not “done my own research” I suspect the former behavior is more common than the latter.

  84. 84.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Geminid: It always had a very Rick James/CharlieMurphie’s Couch vibe from the Chapelle Show, to me.  I could totally see it being a GRU lie concocted because it would look so in-character with Trump’s childishness and racist obsession wit Obama.  Or it could be true (or partially true) for the very same reason.

  85. 85.

    zhena gogolia

    @oldgold: No one here thinks it is not a real thing. We are dealing with reality. The incumbent president is old. He is also a highly skilled politician who has an excellent record to run on for his first term. To replace him with RFK Jr. or Sherrod Brown or J. B. Pritzker would be to pre-emptively concede the election to a fascist dictator. We cannot do that. All we can do is support our incumbent president with all our words and deeds until the danger is passed.

    ETA: He also beat Trump before. Trump is also old but no one seems to think that is “a real thing.”

  86. 86.

    zhena gogolia

    @Geminid: I think they are both equally “salacious.” One is more humiliating to the patron than the other, but that doesn’t mean it’s more “salacious.”

  87. 87.

    gene108

    The pee-tape was Trump supposedly staying in hotel room once occupied by President Barack Obama and Michelle Obama, in Moscow, and included the same bed they supposedly slept on.

    Trump had a couple of prostitutes over. He had them be on the bed, because the Obama’s supposedly slept there.

  89. 89.

    Brachiator

    @oldgold:

    Good News: Everyone is a Democrat and detests Trump. Bad News: All, but a few, are  worried about Biden for a reason very few here seem to think is a real thing.

    Did your guests have an opinion about VP Kamala Harris?

    Did anyone even hint that they might vote Republican this time around? Did they have an opinion about any of the Republican candidates scrambling to possibly replace Trump?

  90. 90.

    BellyCat

    Spent three months in the Netherlands 15 years ago. Wonderful place. Wonderful people. Refreshingly, they enjoy good arguments.

    There is as much a right wing there as the US. Which is to say that 27% fear (black) immigrants will ruin it for them. T’is a shame.

  91. 91.

    lowtechcyclist

    We had T-Day dinner at my stepsister’s house. We’re all left of center, so no MAGA issues. I didn’t hear a single word of political or even politics-adjacent conversation, so I have no idea whether any of the extended group thinks Biden is too old. Since most of the attendees were of my generation of the family (early 60s to early 70s, except for my 59 year old wife), there was a lot of discussion of health plans and scoping out retirement communities.

    My younger sister and her husband, who are both retired, are on ACA plans until they hit 65 and can get Medicare. My BIL thought that Medicare was free and that a Medigap policy was all they’d need to pay for, so I was explaining to him the difference between Part A (free) and Part B (not). Stimulating conversation. ;-)​

  92. 92.

    oldgold

    @Brachiator: To answer your questions:

    Did not talk about Harris. Which might say a lot.

    No one indicated any interest in voting Republican.

    Of the other Republican candidates, (most of my family members  are Iowans, so these nincompoops are on their radar) all are considered clowns.

  93. 93.

    Citizen Alan

    @RevRick: That was not my recollection of the story. Rather, it was that he supposedly rented a hotel room in Moscow in which Barack and Michelle Obama had stayed a week previously and then hired two prostitutes to engage in water sports with each other on the bed the Obamax had slept in, presumably out of some bizarre attempt to ritually defile it.

  94. 94.

    Torrey

    @zhena gogolia: ​
     
    I’m very glad you brought this up. I’m becoming increasingly annoyed by the late-night comedians who, with rare exceptions, seem unable to fulfill what seems to be their constitutional duty to joke about the current president without making the joke all about Biden’s age and then relying on the stereotype of age equaling incompetence. I worry that the constant drumbeat of Biden-is-old-therefore-losing-it will have an effect, particularly on people who aren’t otherwise focusing on politics, i.e., normies.

  95. 95.

    Baud

    @Torrey:

    Could be.  OTOH, there’s something to be said for setting low expectations. Hard to predict how it will all shake out.  All we can do is keep plugging away.

  96. 96.

    Another Scott

    @Torrey: I blame SNL.  It trained people that there’s money to be made in going for the really cheap, obvious joke.

    Lorne Michaels is 79.  (And he was born in “Mandatory Palestine” according to Wikipedia.)  They’ve joked about him occasionally over the years, but I don’t recall them ever saying he was “old” – they’re probably too afraid of him to do that…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  97. 97.

    BellyCat

    The Netherlands are unique in that they generally believe consenting adults may do as they wish. Legalized drugs and sex work are taxed and regulated for economic benefit and personal safety. Generally, very open-minded.

    Legalization of drugs elsewhere has undoubtedly cut into drug tourism formerly fueled by The Youngs, in part contributing to economic challenges familiar to all countries resulting from cheap mass produced/globally shipped goods.

    The standard of living is high there and it ain’t cheap; thus, economic panic has ensued as The Olds feel a pinch and The Youngs aren’t doing as well as their parents did. Convenient group to blame? Immigrants. (Sound familiar?)

  99. 99.

    citizen dave

    Covid really helped my situation as far as being subjected to wingnut holiday gatherings; covid and age of sibling-in-laws, etc.  I was at my wife’s relatives yesterday, but common sense ones.  Some of them may have even been R voters, I don’t know, but no politics came up.  But, on the way to pick up my online-nutter-gatherer sister-in-law, my wife says “Sister was telling me the other day about paying for stuff with your palm, have you heard of that?”  I had to say, well I told you about it awhile back, I think Whole Foods is going to do it.  [Google confirmed–by the end of the year.  Guess I’ll be doing it, I’m an amazon linked, whole foods app on my phone guy].

     

    What about that Dolly Parton Dallas Cowboys cheerleader outfit halftime show?  Whoa.

  100. 100.

    BellyCat

    AP: “Thirteen Israeli hostages were released, according to Israeli media, and 12 Thai hostages were also freed.”

    Promising! What’s the Thai explanation?

  101. 101.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Princess:

    Putin is leaning on him again

    Putin never leaned on him in the first place.  Didn’t have to.  Remember the Russian intelligence leak?  Russia didn’t have to give Trump direct orders, because the shit Putin would have asked Trump to do is the shit Trump already wanted to do anyway.  He was the perfect useful idiot.

    @StringOnAStick:

    The Netherlands issue is maybe a little about inflation, which compared to Argentina’s gaping wound is just a paper cut

    Isn’t the Netherlands inflation really, really, really bad?  Like, 40% or something?  That’s going to be a giant hit on any incumbent government, on top of the racism issue.

    The Argentinian inflation of 160% after years of nearly 100% is… so bad that everything else goes out the window.  That’s insane.  I don’t understand how you can have an economy at all under those circumstances.  People are going to go to a barter system, or maybe exclusively use American currency?  They’re sure as Hell going to turf out the old government.

  103. 103.

    Baud

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I hadn’t heard that the Netherlands inflation was that bad. That would explain a lot.

    People are going to go to a barter system, or maybe exclusively use American currency?

     

    Yes, I think that’s what they do.

  104. 104.

    CaseyL

    I suspect “orderliness” is also a cherished value in the Netherlands (as it is throughout much of Northern Europe).  Immigrants bring different cultural influences, some more chaotic than they’re comfortable with.   That amplifies the economic fears of “immigrants taking our jobs.”

  105. 105.

    Another Scott

    Meanwhile, … InsideEVs.com:

    Europeans are ditching what used to be the de facto fuel for passenger cars–diesel–in favor of battery-powered vehicles.

    According to the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association (ACEA), new EV registrations in the European Union have surpassed those of diesel-powered cars from January to October for the first time. This means EVs are now the third most popular type of vehicle here, after gas-powered cars and hybrids.

    Last month, EU registrations for battery-electric cars increased by 36.3% compared to October 2022, reaching 121,808 units, while the diesel car market continued to decline, with sales seeing a decrease of 13.2 percent.

    Year-to-date, the EU saw 1.2 million new EVs registered on its territory, a massive increase of 53.1% compared to last year, and reached a total market share of 14% in the first ten months of this year.

    By contrast, diesel-powered cars went from having a 15.9% market share in October of last year to just 12% this year. That’s a noteworthy decrease when compared to the year 2015 when diesel had a grip on the European car market with a 50% share. Year-to-date, diesel has a 13.9% share.

    […]

    … gradually, and then suddenly.

    Good, good. It can happen here, too.

    I wonder if Ford and the other Big 3 are going to be nimble enough when their cash-cow giant pickups are sitting on the lot for months the way 440 and 426 Superbirds/Daytonas sat on the lot in Marietta the early 1970s…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  110. 110.

    Nukular Biskits

    @p.a.:

    Also too, this means it’s (yet another) dangerous time for Arabs- of course- and male sikhs. And others: my neighbor is Armenian, and boy does he hate the TSA.

    While I don’t hate the TSA (they are just doing their jobs, after all), I swear the screening requirements seems to be arbitrary and, quite frequently, change.

  111. 111.

    Ruckus

    @zhena gogolia:

    Joe is over that very specific age marker 80 yrs!

    SFB is what, a whole 3 yrs younger, and acts like a drunken alley bum. Is it possible that his followers see him the same way but think that is normal human?

  112. 112.

    artem1s

    @Ruckus:

    acts like a drunken alley bum. Is it possible that his followers see him the same way but think that is normal human?

    sounds like rural Ohio to me. so yea, probably exactly what they experience as normal. ‘He pretty much kept to himself and tended his meth kitchen before he went off in a drunken spree and shot up his family and neighbors’

  113. 113.

    kalakal

    Having enjoyed an American holiday yesterday I was excited to hear of good news from my homeland today.

    Who among us can say that Brexit Britain is not world beating? The words pathetic and ludicrous are getting a lot of excercise

    That’ll show ’em

    I laughed until I stopped.

  114. 114.

    Nukular Biskits

    @Another Scott:

    I wonder if Ford and the other Big 3 are going to be nimble enough when their cash-cow giant pickups are sitting on the lot for months the way 440 and 426 Superbirds/Daytonas sat on the lot in Marietta the early 1970s…

    Not just the 70s.

    Back during the 2008 economic meltdown, dealers couldn’t give away pickups, particularly the heavy-duty ones.

    A friend of mine picked up a brand new, very nice, King Ranch F250 4×4 for under $40K.

  117. 117.

    evodevo

    @Another Scott:  Well, one big factor in this situation is the high price of gas and diesel in Europe, compared to here…when we were over there several years ago, prices were $2-3 a LITER…I have no idea what they are now, but that alone would make me consider an EV…

    Oh, wait..I just looked it up, and the prices are comparable to CA’s…never mind…

  118. 118.

    Brachiator

    @Another Scott:

    Year-to-date, the EU saw 1.2 million new EVs registered on its territory, a massive increase of 53.1% compared to last year, and reached a total market share of 14% in the first ten months of this year.

    Very interesting. I wonder what the situation with charging stations might be like?

  119. 119.

    karen marie

    @Phylllis: I don’t know about bulbs but I ended up using Amazon to get a 9 volt battery for my laser thermometer. I looked at prices locally and it was cheaper to go with Amazon. Two days to arrive and I got two for the price of one.

  120. 120.

    Miss Bianca

    @Betty Cracker: Reposting from dead thread, just for you, Betty:

    We were at the neighbors’ for Thanksgiving and suddenly one of them went bug-eyed about the immigrant hordes swarming over our OPEN BORDER!! 10,000 PER DAY! BRINGING ALL THEIR DIRT AND DISEASE AND BABY-RAPING WITH THEM!!

    She was not talking about the Canadian border.

    Should have channelled my inner Leslie Jones and just shut that shit down instead of trying to engage. Oh, well. I was just so fucking gobsmacked by the sheer “DUSKY HORDE PANIC OH NOES” that I couldn’t help myself.

    No lasting hard feelings, I suspect, but mayhap I’ll find an excuse to do Thanksgiving elsehow next year…

    ETA: I did make reference, at the end of the evening, to Family Dysfunction Awareness Day, and reminded my neighbor that since we had now had six Thanksgivings together, we officially qualified as an honorary Dysfunctional Family by having a political row at Thanksgiving Dinner. We did manage to get some laffs out of that one.

  121. 121.

    Brachiator

    @Baud:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I hadn’t heard that the Netherlands inflation was that bad. That would explain a lot.

    At one point, inflation got as high as 140 percent, with a poverty rate of 40 percent.

    But the solutions offered by Milei are extreme, and retrograde. He would abolish the central bank and use dollars instead of printing pesos to curb inflation. Note that some people there already use dollars.

    A good short video on the election and situation in Argentina.

  122. 122.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Another Scott: Have you seen the viral vids of Miss Nepal from the Miss Universe pageant?  I looked them up (only for research purposes, mind you).  She made quite a stir due to the fact that she is much thicker in body type than the rest of the contestants.  She made the top 20 but didn’t win.  Anyways, yesterday I was watching the YouTube episode of one of my fave Black Comedy Podcasts (ThreeGuysOn) and they were having a blast talking about how fine she is but also about how all these pageants are based on White Supremacist beauty standards that are so out of touch with the consensus in their community.  For another glaring example: Serena Williams had her body ridiculed by white (and other non-Black) tennis fans for decades (while those same people obsessed over tall, skinny, blonde Maria Sharapova), while in Black circles everybody knew Serena was fine AF and it was a constant subject of thirst discussions.

  126. 126.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @zhena gogolia: He also beat Trump before. Trump is also old but no one seems to thin that is “a real thing.”

    Age is a number old is a vibe. Trump is older than Biden.

    @Miss Bianca: Concerns are a heritable trait, maybe..

    I, too, have a large group of unverifiable individuals who share all my biggest concerns.

  128. 128.

    emjayay

    @Betty Cracker: Well see the thing is that Mexicans and other Central Americans are brown and speak a foreign language and Middle Eastern Muslims are brown and speak a foreign language so the first group can’t tell the difference between themselves and the latter ones when they are marching down the road to the border.

  129. 129.

    RedDirtGirl

    @NotMax: Thanks! I just cancelled a bunch of services because they were really adding up, so I think I will take advantage of some of these. I’ll just make sure to mark my calendar for when the deals end so I don’t get walloped by the huge price increases down the line.

  130. 130.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Miss Bianca: I live in Los Angeles, surrounded by Mexican and Central American immigrants and I work with predominantly Asian-American kids and adults.  It is awesome.  They are wonderful people and bring so much great culture, food and everything else to our region.  This, to me, is what America should be.  I love it.  When I visit “heart-land” America with it’s crushing Whiteness, I feel like I can’t get out fast enough.

  132. 132.

    Brachiator

    @Baud:

    Sorry. I am reading and posting while riding on a crowded bus.

    Meant to post a reference to a short video on the Netherlands Election.

    The swerve to the right in both countries is sad, but informative. The winner of the election in the Netherlands once advocated banning all mosques.

  134. 134.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Baud: He definitely was speaking for a significant chunk of his community.  Though, skinny/no-butt people are beautiful too.

  137. 137.

    Miss Bianca

    @UncleEbeneezer: I think I almost made her cry by talking her about our dead neighbors, shot a couple days ago by a native-born American (it made national news, actually), and then saying, “was it immigrants that did that? You really think you’re in more danger from immigrants you don’t know than from our own gun-happy neighbors?”

    There may have been wine involved…

    But yeah, my experience working with immigrants teaching ESL made me realize that for the most part, they were extremely kind, caring, hard-working people – whether they were “legal” or not.

  138. 138.

    Ruckus

    @Torrey:

    Well other than his age what do they have to joke about? Joe does the job and seemingly rather well. That many people who are in his age bracket are retired and don’t do much is a lot of fuel for the kind of ageism that we hear. My mom was still working when she was 4-5 yrs older than Joe. As we get up there in years we all respond differently to aging, because we all age differently.

  139. 139.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @StringOnAStick: ​

    Given their economic problems I don’t think they are a popular choice for immigration.

    Argentina’s heyday as an immigration destination ended in the late 40s, with the final wave of expatriate Nazis. Many many Italians emigrated to Argentina in the late 19th Century, just as they did to the US.

  142. 142.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Villago Delenda Est: Many many Italians emigrated to Argentina in the late 19th Century

    Interestingly, I have heard from many native Spanish-speakers that the Argentinian accent is to their ears the most beautiful. Also I’ve read that this is because it has an Italian flavor to it.

    I’m not good enough in Spanish to pick that up, but I have noticed some very distinct aspects of that accent.

  143. 143.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @evodevo: Vehicle fuel in Europe has always been higher than in the US.  The US forces in Germany get heavily subsidized gas prices that result in them paying pretty much what they would “back in the World”, instead of much higher prices on the local economy.

  146. 146.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Miss Bianca: You should’ve added that undocumented immigrants commit crimes at lower rates than American-born citizens.  So even putting aside the fact that White-on-White crime is the shit she really needs to be worried about, her white neighbors/friends are more likely to commit crimes than those immigrants she’s so afraid of.

  148. 148.

    Geminid

    @Baud: Iran would like to frame this war as a West vs. Global South conflict, and the Filipino captives detract from that narrative. Plus, by facilitating their release, Iran books a diplomatic favor to Thailand.

    I read that 25 Filipino farm workers were taken prisoner on October 7, and 32 others were murdered. Several young people from Nepal and Africa who were living at kibbutzes while on work/study programs were also murdered that day.

  149. 149.

    zhena gogolia

    I’m loving the fact that the Steele dossier report on the golden showers keeps getting repeated in this thread as people respond to an early comment.

  151. 151.

    zhena gogolia

    @Ruckus: That’s just it. There’s nothing to make fun of him for, but they have to give him “equal time,” so they keep flogging the same offensive jokes about his age.

  153. 153.

    kalakal

    @BellyCat: I lived there as a teen and in my 20s, loved it.

    The real number of immigrants to the Netherlands is very low by international comparisons

    Net immigration by country

    Right wing tossers conflate immigration, refugees, and asylum seekers for their scare stories.

    Europe has a lot of refugees (20% of the world total), some of the most desperate and vulnerable people on earth and these bastards just love to whip up hate against them

  154. 154.

    Torrey

    @Ruckus: ​ 

    other than his age what do they have to joke about?

    Colbert stands out as someone whose jokes about Biden aren’t all about age, or, insofar as they are about age, they don’t rely on the age = incompetence stereotype. Colbert jokes about his use of outdated slang–a way of joking about age without making it about decline–the aviator sunglasses, the ice cream, the cars, the dogs, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Polar Bear Plunge makes it into the next monologue. But then, Colbert seems to have good writers (including, apparently, his own self).​

  156. 156.

    Soprano2

    @oldgold: So what exactly do they say is the problem with his age? All I ever hear is “Biden is old, that’s bad”; no one ever says what they think will happen because he’s old.

  157. 157.

    Soprano2

    @zhena gogolia: Or what she said. Why is being young seen as obviously better by these people? Experience used to be prized, now it’s too often sneered at in favor of someone who is “prettier”. I still believe 90+% of this anxiety is unease about the VP.

  158. 158.

    brantl

    @TriassicSands: Taylor Swift has recently taken a stand for Democrats, and is driving a lot of young people to get registered to vote. She may matter to you, very soon.

  159. 159.

    wjca

    For those getting worked up about a RWNJ “winning” the election in the Netherlands, think about this: Dutch politics is extremely fractured.  That “win” was actually just a PLURALITY.   A plurality amounting to 35 seats in a parliament which has 150 total seats (i.e. less than 25%.).

    So, he does get first shot at trying to form a government. But when he fails (which is the smart money bet) someone more sane will put the new government together.

  161. 161.

    wjca

    @brantl: I get so sick of hearing about the “destruction of the middle class” when whatever is happening to the middle class is incinerating the poor.

    Two factors are in play here.

    1.  A lot of those people you see as poor, see themselves as middle class.  Even while getting incinerated.
    2.  The middle class, on whatever definition, are a significantly bigger slice of the voting population than the poor.

    So any politician looking for votes (which is pretty much all of them, even in safely gerrymandered districts) is going to speak of and to the “middle class” far more than to the poor.

  162. 162.

    kalakal

     

    @zhena gogolia:

    Blackadder had something to say about young politicians

    Pitt the even younger

    More seriously it really annoys me, they have no point of attack on Biden except to astro turf panic over his age. I’m not sure which is the biggest factor, racism against Kamala, who be a zillion times better president than any of her would be opponents, GOP and Dem, or the MSM pro GOP bias.

    It even appears in the BBC UK coverage , apparently a vast majority of the US population wants biden to step down

  163. 163.

    brantl

    @wjca: Not in this country, they aren’t. The poor in this country was large to start with, and growing daily. Take a look at the food insecurity stats in this country, and tell me those people aren’t poor.

  165. 165.

    Betty Cracker

    @Miss Bianca: At least y’all ended on a civil note!

    We did too, mostly. I think we convinced one uncle who despises Biden and Trump but originally said he planned to vote for Trump as the lesser of two evils to write in someone instead of voting for Trump. He won’t vote for Biden no matter what, so better he should throw away his vote on some rando than add to the shitgibbon’s total.

  166. 166.

    BellyCat

    Uncle Joe should lean into the age issue, like he did with Dark Brandon, transforming himself into Awesome Grandpa Joe. “Ice cream and treats for all!”

  167. 167.

    Bill Arnold

    @zhena gogolia:

    I think geminid is saying that the version in which they peed ON TRUMP is not what was in the dossier — that was that he watched them pee on Obama’s bed, which is much more believable. So the less believable one got circulated instead of what was actually in the dossier.

    There are a few aspects here.
    (1) It was speculated at the time that the “pee tape” material was intjected into Steeles sources to (per common Russian procedure):
    (a) draw media attention away from other sections of the Steele memos (“dossier”). (E.g. the allegations that the Trump campaign paid (along with Russia) hacking talent to hack the DNC/etc. This was “disproven” by Cohen demonstrating that he wasn’t there, but there is still a McClatchy[1] report of one of Cohen’s cell phones being used in the area at the time, that they stand by.[2])
    (b) discredit the memos with material that, until substantiated by e.g. release of recordings, would taint the rest of the sections with doubt.
    (2) And then there was the influence operation that spread a false version of the material in that section, with motives probably similar to (a) and (b) above, though maybe/probably with different actors.
    Anyway, interesting that Trump is bringing it up again. One or two possible motives are … troubling. (or smile-inducing :-).

    [1] Cell signal puts Cohen outside Prague around time of purported Russian meeting (BY PETER STONE AND GREG GORDON UPDATED APRIL 18, 2019) (See the update at the top of the article acknowledging the content of the Mueller report.)
    [2] For bonus points, find an interview of Roger Stone by George Stephanopolis, and listen carefully.

  171. 171.

    StringOnAStick

    @Frankensteinbeck: Argentina’s citizens have been bartering aggressively for decades, in the big cities the weekend flea markets are filled with people trying to avoid  using currency to get their needs met.  Walk in any park in Buenos Aires and there will be men walking around the tourists saying “cambio, cambio” trying get tourists to illegally exchange his currency for US dollars.  They don’t do it loudly and have to be casual about it but you can tell  there’s plenty of desperation.

  172. 172.

    StringOnAStick

    @Brachiator: That’s an insane proposal. Linking the Argentinian dollar to the U.S. Dollar was what killed their economy almost 3 decades ago (thanks, Chicago school of economics!).

  174. 174.

    StringOnAStick

    @brantl: I have a friend who are married into a family that all live in Argentina; they and all of the people in their formerly middle class neighbourhood were so financially ruined by the inflation of the early 2000’s that their neighbourhood is now someplace where you do not open the door unless you know who it is because of armed gangs and each family member has been mugged several times.  They are no longer middle class, they are part of the better off poor.  The poor are the only growing socioeconomic class in Argentina.

  175. 175.

    RevRick

    @Citizen Alan: I stand corrected about what exactly was in the Steele Dossier, but the way Trump keeps bringing it up and harping about it suggests otherwise. I had to strain my brain to recall what I knew about the situation. For Trump to once again bring up the subject out of the blue, and in front of some high school kids no less, tells me that he feels a tremendous anxiety about what it implies. Given his narcissism and his personification as a tough guy he just can’t let it go. Which raises the question why.
    That he might have some paraphilia doesn’t matter to me at all. And if it was a case of him paying some hookers to pee on the bed the Obamas slept in just checks off the fact he’s a petty, vindictive little man.
    I bet 99% of us had long forgotten this scenario. But it seethes inside Trump, compelling him to rehash it.

  176. 176.

    Brachiator

    I’m loving the fact that the Steele dossier report on the golden showers keeps getting repeated in this thread as people respond to an early comment.

    Adding a bit more.

    This is such a strange story. I want to say that I doubt that the story is true because Trump is supposedly a germaphobe. Also, his purported behavior is odd, not just perverse. He is orchestrating a tableaux to express hated for Obama. That Trump would stage such an elaborate revenge fantasy suggests that he has done things like this before, but there are no hints or rumors that he has done anything like this before. I think that he would have a hard time preventing any leaks about this kind of behavior.

    This supposedly happened in 2013, long before Trump decided to run for president. But the White House Correspondents’ Dinner where Obama publicly roasted Trump took place in 2011, and we know that Trump holds grudges.

    So, in the end, whatever the truth of the matter, I am glad that this rumor continues to gnaw at Trump. He has earned whatever derision results from people continuing to talk about this.

    A last little tidbit from an article about this in The Cut.

    I will tell you that on January 11, 2017, the day after the Steele dossier was released online, the website PornHub says it saw a 273 percent spike in searches for the term “golden shower,” (people urinating on, or being urinated on by their partner.) PornHub also notes that the demographic most likely to search for golden showers is men over 65, a group to which Trump has belonged for some time.

    Trump is a strange man with strange resentments. He has brought suspicions onto himself.

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