Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I also would like a pony to improve my balloon juice experience.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the gop

I’m just a talker, trying to find a channel!

So many bastards, so little time.

In short, I come down firmly on all sides of the issue.

Republicans can’t even be trusted with their own money.

He imagines himself as The Big Bad, Who Is Universally Feared… instead of The Big Jagoff, Who Is Universally Mocked.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL.

Everyone is in a bubble, but some bubbles model reality far better than others!

Nikki Haley, who can’t acknowledge ‘slavery’, is a pathetic shill.

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

This country desperately needs a functioning Fourth Estate.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

Days Since JD Vance Insulted Women Across America: Zero

An almost top 10,000 blog!

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

We won’t go back.

This fight is for everything.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Monday Morning Open Thread: Thank All the Gods for President Biden

Monday Morning Open Thread: Thank All the Gods for President Biden

by | 209 Comments

This post is in: , ,



 
Meanwhile a Fox News reporter adds a line to his resume:


 

Reader Interactions

209Comments

  5. 5.

    BellyCat

    Fox & MAGA:  Never let inconvenient facts get in the way of a false but persuasive (and  profitable!) narrative.

  8. 8.

    Cacti

    It’s always good news for Joe here at Zionist-juice.

    Thank you for helping free hostages who found themselves in that situation because of the blind, deaf, Israel-first policies you’ve supported for a half century.

    Give him a Nobel Peace Prize.

  9. 9.

    Glenn Snowden

    It’s always good news for grandpa Joe here at Zionist juice.

    Too bad his blind support of Israel is going to repel young people and Muslim-Americans.

  12. 12.

    Kay

    Propublica has a good story out tracking why Republicans are not permitted to support exceptions for the health/life of the mother – pressure from fundamentalist religious groups. The threat is real too- a female lawmaker in Louisiana tried to put an exception in for children who are raped and they primaried her and knocked her out:

    For the anti-abortion movement, the goal has always been total abortion bans with no exceptions and constitutional recognition that a fetus has the same rights as a person, said Mary Ziegler, a leading historian of the U.S. abortion debate.
    This unyielding position was influenced by thinkers like Charles E. Rice, a law professor at the University of Notre Dame whose 1990 book “No Exception: A Pro-Life Imperative,” argues that the anti-abortion movement should not support any exceptions — even for the life of the pregnant person.

    You can see this celebration of women dying in childbirth at the national Right to Life rally in DC every year- they’re right out there with it but this is the first time I’ve seen a national media org dare to cover it:

    The Catholic Church and the anti-abortion movement also have a history of celebrating the stories of women who were willing to sacrifice their lives to continue their pregnancies.
    One of the most well-known stories is about Chiara Corbella Petrillo, a young Italian woman who refused chemotherapy in 2011 for cancer on her tongue because she was pregnant. As the cancer progressed, it became difficult for her to speak and see. A year after giving birth to a healthy baby boy, she died.
    Live Action, a major anti-abortion advocacy group, included Petrillo on a list of “7 Brave Mothers Who Risked Their Lives to Save Their Preborn Babies.”

    Women said far Right religious extremists would sacrifice women if they were permitted to write laws,  but they were told they were hysterical and it would never happen. It’s now the law in nine states.

  16. 16.

    zhena gogolia

    I noticed the goalpost change in the prayer requests in church yesterday. From “ceasefire” we have moved on to “permanent ceasefire,” without ever pausing to offer a prayer of thanks for the “ceasefire” that Biden engineered.

  17. 17.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Eunicecycle:

    Everyone must be Cyber Monday-ing!

    Is Cyber Monday even a thing anymore?  It strikes me as a relic from 20-25 years ago when a lot of people had a computer on their desk at work, but didn’t yet have one at home.

    The news reports say there was a huge amount of online commerce this past weekend; people aren’t waiting for Monday to shop online.

  19. 19.

    Soprano2

    Came in to work this morning and wondered why my office felt like a meat locker. Come to find out, the people who prepared the meal for our Thanksgiving celebration on Wednesday turned the air conditioner on in the lunchroom; they forgot to turn it back to heat when we were done, so the air conditioner has been on for the unit that controls the temps in my office since Wednesday! I have my space heater on  right now. I shouldn’t have to check to see if they set it back, but I probably should because they always forget. This happened once in the middle of February!

  21. 21.

    Jeffro

    @BellyCat:Fox & MAGA:  Never let inconvenient facts get in the way of a false but persuasive (and  profitable!) narrative.

    So true.

    Fox’s top story right now?  President Biden’s supposed apology to American Muslims for questioning Hamas’ reported death toll numbers in Gaza.

    (Fox: He apologized…to them!  Unforgivable!  Practically treason!! )

    It would be one thing if they simply weren’t reporting the good things he is responsible for.  But to fan the flames all day every day is completely disgusting.

  22. 22.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    They should tell people who is writing these laws. This is basic information people need:

    Paul Benjamin Linton was one of them. A longtime Catholic legal activist, he had argued against Rice’s commitment to a no-exceptions position that had no chance in the Supreme Court — not because he disagreed with it morally, but because he believed an incremental strategy would result in more babies being born. (Linton did not respond to emails and voicemails.)
    After Trump’s election, he shifted to supporting banning abortion completely. Linton began drafting legislation that did not include explicit exceptions for the life or health of the pregnant person. Starting in 2019, he promoted some of the country’s strictest abortion bans in Tennessee, Idaho, and Texas. Those trigger laws, unenforceable at the time they were passed, became a stark reality for millions of people of childbearing age when Roe was overturned. Though slightly modified in 2023, they continue to sharply limit the ability of doctors to provide abortions to patients facing health risks.

    I wondered why they weren’t amending any of these laws. They’re wildly unpopular with the public and put womens health and lives at risk. It’s not going away, either. It’s just building as more and more women are refused medical care.
    They can’t amend any of the laws because religous extremist lobbying groups forbid it.
    It actually makes me wonder how long this has been going on. I think there should be a comparison done between religious health care companies and secular health care companies to see if more women are dying due to complications from pregnancy under the care of the religious health care companies. They could be withholding care even in states where women have a full set of rights. Federal regulators should compare outcomes and look for a difference. Are women more likely to die in a religious hospital?

  24. 24.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: I hate Donald Trump with the white hot heat of 10K exploding supernovas, but I give the repulsive pig credit for understanding that knuckling under to the forced-birth zealots is a mistake, at least outside of far-right strongholds. There’s an article in Rolling Stone about how Trump is trying to have it both ways, running as an abortion law “moderate” and as the Roe slayer at the same time.

    Trump’s “spiritual advisor — slimy misogynist and antisemite Robert Jeffress, commented on Trump’s position:

    The pastor tells Rolling Stone he spoke to the former president more recently about the matter, saying that “some months ago when I was talking on the phone with President Trump about this issue, I agreed with him that Republican losses were due to extreme positions on this issue and that he had the right strategy. He is, of course, still very, very pro-life, but it is not going to do him, or the movement, any good to pretend that he should campaign on a six-week ban, like others have.”

    Jeffress continues, “He is going to be the Republican nominee to take on Joe Biden … and anyone who thought they could muscle Donald Trump into doing or saying anything on this important issue clearly does not know Donald Trump.”

    I don’t know about that last part. Trump is pretty dumb and has a weakness for flattery. He can easily be goaded into taking positions that harm himself politically.

    But it will be interesting to see how this issue plays out in the remainder of the primary. Trump thinks he can offer the zealots nothing and they’ll still be on board because he killed Roe. Maybe he’s right. We’ll see.

  25. 25.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud: No, it’s a very left-wing church (why would you think it’s right-wing, since they’re asking for a permanent ceasefire?). There’s just this one leftie guy who has to offer a prayer request trolling Biden every week.

  26. 26.

    Geminid

    @Baud: This is more of a leftwing position. Critics of Israel have advocated for a permanent ceasefire since Israel first retaliated for the October 7 attack.

  27. 27.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I’m concerned about the effort here to do what you did in Ohio. All of the court challenges by Republicans are finally over, but they did what they wanted to do by drastically shortening the period of time the amendment backers have to get signatures. (They probably need three or four times the amount, because I know the MO state officials will do everything they can to disqualify enough signatures to keep it off the ballot.) Problem is, two different groups are trying to get amendments on the ballot, and they are different. This, from my local paper, sums up the nut of the situation:

    “It’s too early right now to know which petition will go forward, but Abortion Action Missouri is committed to the most expansive policy possible,” said Maggie Olivia, senior policy manager at Abortion Action Missouri, a grassroots pro-choice advocacy organization.

    An additional six initiative petitions were filed by Jamie Corley, director of the Missouri Women and Family Research Fund, which have been pitched as a middle ground between the state’s current abortion ban and petitions from Fitz-James, most of which seek to legalize abortion up to 24 weeks after conception or until fetal viability, with exceptions for the health and safety of the mother.

    “It would enshrine access to abortion in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, protect access to contraception and give women immunity from criminal prosecution,” Corley said. “For the exception of fatal fetal abnormality, rape and incest, you can get an abortion through viability, which is about halfway through pregnancy.”

    So the actual pro-woman group wants legalization up to 24 weeks, while the group with the suspicious-sounding name wants legalization up to 12 weeks. I don’t like the 12 week thing, but if it was with no restrictions I could live with it, because it would be a hell of a lot better than what we have now. What I’m afraid of, though, is that it would be up to 12 weeks with all the bullshit restrictions we used to have before they pretty much outlawed abortion in MO – waiting periods, ultrasounds, having to listen to a bullshit reading mandated by the state that’s full of lies, that kind of crap. What I’m afraid of is that the measures from the suspiciously-named Missouri Women and Family Research Fund is actually an effort to kneecap the real abortion legalization effort by trying to present a “middle ground” that’s nothing of the kind. I’m afraid the people for the real effort are going to have to work a lot harder than the people in Ohio did to get the word out, or else their amendment will fail.

  28. 28.

    SuzieC

    After reading this, I looked at this morning’s WaPo.  Jennifer Rubin has a good column entitled “Biden’s bear hug worked with Israel.”  She, at least, is giving credit where due.

  29. 29.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker: I think he’s right that the anti-abortion zealots will fall in line.

     

    @zhena gogolia: Seems like they go out of their way to undercut Democrats.  This isn’t the first time you’ve mentioned it.  Didn’t they also do some righty things during COVID?

     

    @Geminid:

    Right, but righties will appropriate left wing positions to fool lefties.

  30. 30.

    Soprano2

    @zhena gogolia: I’m sure Duncan Black at Eschaton has already moved the goalposts, and is busily denouncing Biden because what he did isn’t good enough. I think Obama not being the president he thought he was getting broke that guy’s brain; he didn’t used to be like that.

  31. 31.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    I think this is an area where organiing can make a real difference (because outside of NPR and Propublica) we’re obviously not going to get any coverage of womens health from media. The (ongoing) effort to put on ballot initiatives in 5 states can make a real difference in educating voters, based on my experience in Ohio. People had really good questions.

    I’m serious about wanting a regulator to look at outcomes for womens health in religious hospitals. This “sacrifice the mother” ideology is fucking scary if you’re flat on your back in the hospital at their mercy. Catholic Charities is about 60% federally funded. They receive a billion and a half a year from federal taxes. Regulators can absolutely can look at where that taxpayer money is going and what it is supporting. It shouldn’t be supporting an ideology that believes in denying modern medical care to women and killing them.

  32. 32.

    Chris

    @Kay:

    Propublica has a good story out tracking why Republicans are not permitted to support exceptions for the health/life of the mother – pressure from fundamentalist religious groups. The threat is real too- a female lawmaker in Louisiana tried to put an exception in for children who are raped and they primaried her and knocked her out:

    I used to be “pro-life,” when I was young, stupid, and mostly Republican.

    Nothing cured me of it faster than talking to actual religious fundamentalists and hearing what they actually believed, as opposed to the watered down version the MSM assures us they believe.  Like the fact that 1) they believed in zero exceptions, not even in cases of rape or a real danger to the mother’s life, and 2) they believed in not only banning abortion but all forms of birth control, because even preventing the abortion question from arising in the first place is too “liberal” an option for them; women must do everything they can to absolutely maximize the chances of their pregnancy, and then can’t do anything to end it.

    I’ve often thought that it would do people a world of good, especially those who’ve lived in blue states their whole lives, to just be dropped off at the corner bar in a blood-red county somewhere and simply listen to the unfiltered views of every conservative who starts talking about politics, without CNN to clean it up with all their crap about “economic anxiety” and “people just feel left behind.”  It’d certainly leave them with a far more realistic view of what conservatism actually is.

  33. 33.

    Soprano2

    @Chris: Don’t they believe that if you got rid of all the birth control the young women would all quit having sex outside of marriage? That’s the sense I’ve always gotten about their position against birth control. If they could limit it to married people only they might be OK with some birth control. It’s all about controlling young people’s sex lives, not “saving babies”.

  34. 34.

    Scout211

    @Betty Cracker: But it will be interesting to see how this issue plays out in the remainder of the primary. Trump thinks he can offer the zealots nothing and they’ll still be on board because he killed Roe. Maybe he’s right. We’ll see.

    I read that article this morning and one thing that stood out was the statement that the Trump team was looking beyond the primary and starting to focus on their strategy to run against Biden.  They believe that claiming that Trump is a “moderate” on abortion will not make a difference in the primary. Apparently, Trump has already won the primary.

    This, sadly, may be true.

  35. 35.

    Soprano2

    @Chris:  I’ve often thought that it would do people a world of good, especially those who’ve lived in blue states their whole lives, to just be dropped off at the corner bar in a blood-red county somewhere and simply listen to the unfiltered views of every conservative who starts talking about politics, without CNN to clean it up with all their crap about “economic anxiety” and “people just feel left behind.” It’d certainly leave them with a far more realistic view of what conservatism actually is.

    This, 1,000% this. The press cleans it all up and leaves out how much racism drives a lot of their beliefs and attitudes. (I firmly believe that the real reason our workplace quit wanting to do the Adopt-a-Family Christmas thing is because one year we got a black family. I noticed after that there was a notable drop-off in enthusiasm, and the excuse I heard was that people felt they didn’t make enough money to participate anymore.) There’s also a lot of misogyny too; they absolutely hate that they can’t tell their noxious jokes at work anymore, or grab some woman’s butt if they feel like it. They think these are men’s spaces, and women should understand that they have to put up with these behaviors if they want to work there. “That’s the way men are, they can’t help it” is the attitude, and that it’s wrong to expect differently.

  36. 36.

    Baud

    @Soprano2:

    Don’t they believe that if you got rid of all the birth control the young women would all quit having sex outside of marriage?

     
    I don’t think the outcome matters that much. Either women stop having sex or they have sex and get pregnant and must bear that punishment. Either way, it’s all good.

  37. 37.

    Suzanne

    @lowtechcyclist:

    The news reports say there was a huge amount of online commerce this past weekend; people aren’t waiting for Monday to shop online. 

    Yeah, I’m just about done. I typically use the holiday weekend time to order some gifts, but also to get any clothing items that I might need on sale.

    Yesterday, I went for an 11-mile run, and the band of my sports bra chafed my skin off and I was bleeding. So I ordered a couple of new ones, which look to be softer.

  38. 38.

    Another Scott

    @Soprano2: Made me look – I haven’t popped over there in years.

    As usual, he doesn’t write enough to give a decent picture about what he thinks and what he is advocating.

    Biden’s people (and probably Biden himself) are prisoners of The Blob and nothing will change…

    seems to be the gist of it.

    Meh.

    It’s kinda amazing that the place is still running, given how little effort he seems to put into it.  :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  40. 40.

    Chris

    @Betty Cracker:

    I think Trump understands that at their core what animates most “pro-life” voters isn’t babies’ lives, or religious piety, or even the question of abortion itself: it’s misogyny.  And as President “grab her by the pussy, when you’re a star they let you do it” Trump, he has a unique credibility in that respect.  They don’t need him to pass the abortion litmus test to prove that he believes women are less than men; he’s already proven that to their satisfaction, and that’s what they really care about.

  41. 41.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    It makes sense they would change tactics though. I think they will be able to get signatures for both. Our signature gathering was the easiest part of the process and an early indicator that we would win- people were signing.

    The truth is they are going to keep stumbling over the health of the mother because they cannot legislate every medical situation. It just doesn’t work. People are going to have to accept the fact that decisions on womens health have to be between women and their physicians. I know this makes people angry because they feel they have a right to make decisions for all women because obviously women are too stupid and evil to make good decisions, but they cannot write a law that pushes the woman and dcotor out and leaves the medical decisions to clerics and lawyers. Women will die. The authors of Roe recognized this 50 years ago, probably because the decision was informed by doctors at the Mayo Clinic. Americans will eventually realize it too. 12 weeks or 15 weeks or24 weeks with no health/life of the mother exception doesn’t touch the “pregnant women being refused medical care” problem.

  42. 42.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: I’ve thought about the religious hospitals angle a lot lately since you flagged the recent Texas Tribune article on the women who’ve joined a lawsuit against the state. Not so much about the religious hospital angle in that story but just in general. It’s a great question, and it should be investigated.

    I’ve been working on a post about a personal experience with that, which I’ll probably never finish. But I do wonder how far back this threat to the health of the mother goes. The danger is elevated now thanks to SCOTUS and fanatics gaining control of statehouses, but maybe it was always an issue.

  43. 43.

    Suzanne

    @Baud:

    Either women stop having sex or they have sex and get pregnant and must bear that punishment. Either way, it’s all good. 

    They also think that getting pregnant will coerce women into marriage and dropping out of school, thereby making them financially dependent, thereby restoring men to the proper place of social dominance.

  45. 45.

    Soprano2

    @Baud: I don’t know, I never got the feeling that pregnancy inside of marriage was considered a punishment for sex by these people. I would agree that some of them think you should have a lot of babies, but I never got the sense that they would force married women to quit using birth control – just the single ones. I guess YYMV.

  46. 46.

    R-Jud

    @Suzanne: Black Friday is also discount-sports-bra Friday for me. When I was in the US in August (but my suitcase was still in the UK), I was pleasantly surprised by the replacement I picked up at Target.

  48. 48.

    mrmoshpotato

    Biden should start responding to this bullshit with “Do you think VP Harris is too Black, and/or Indian, and/or female to run for re-election?”

  51. 51.

    Chris

    @Soprano2:

    … maybe?  The closest thing to a coherent argument I’ve heard is “well easily available birth control just encourages people to have sex all the time which is going to lead to more pregnancies anyway since birth control isn’t foolproof,” but it’s pretty clear they’re just rationalizing at that point.

  53. 53.

    Soprano2

    @Another Scott: Yep, he complains a lot about how Biden doesn’t use the power of the presidency to do a bunch of things, and how all of his national security people are actually warmongers who want wars, and on and on like that. Somehow Biden should be able to forgive all those student loans even though the Supreme Court said he couldn’t. There are definitely things to be critical of Biden for – he promised not to drill in the Arctic, then said there was no choice but to do it. I feel that it’s bad to make promises like that if you can’t keep them. However, he rarely gives Biden credit for what he actually does – he just moves the goalposts and keeps complaining.

  54. 54.

    Chris

    @Scout211:

    I mean, Trump has absolutely won the primary.  More precisely, there was never a meaningful primary to begin with.  The only reason anyone pretended otherwise is that the media has been desperately trying to wishcast a new Republican candidate because they find the real one embarrassing.

  55. 55.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    Ugh. My stomch flip flopped when I thought of it, partly because I had a bad experience with a ghoulish religious nut nurse during a pregnancy emergency.

    You think about rural areas with one hospital or health care provider company. If it’s run by religous nuts have they been denying women medical care for the last 50 years?

  57. 57.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I wonder what will happen if both amendments pass. That could create a real problem. Lucky for us, state judges are chosen using that Missouri system, so the Republican governor isn’t easily able to pack them with crazy Federalist wingnuts. I agree, I keep asking people if they’re OK with the idea that women who are having miscarriages are being told to go home until they get infected or start bleeding to death because doctors are afraid to treat them. Some of them deny this is even happening!

  59. 59.

    sab

    @Betty Cracker: Teddy Roosevelt taught his children that it was young men’s duty to join the military and women’s duty to bear children, with inherent risks of pain and death for both groups. Just God’s plan. If men have to die in battle then women have to die in childbirth.

  60. 60.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I knew a woman who lived in South Dakota in the late ’70’s. She was married, but the only doctor in her town was a Catholic who refused to prescribe birth control to any of his patients. She said she had to travel 100 miles to see a doctor who would prescribe her birth control pills. I think this kind of thing has been going on for a long time, but the press hasn’t told us about it because it’s one of those yucky “women’s issues”. If it doesn’t happen to a white man, they don’t think it’s that important.

  61. 61.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    Right after Donald Trump killed Roe, anti choice lobbyists (Susan B Anthony) were gloating that they would write laws in blue states too – immediately start limiting choice in blue states after they put in bans in red states – they used “Minnesota” as an example of a state where they would rewrite laws.

    So I’m not surprised at all they have astroturf groups with competing amendments. The goal is now and has always been to ban abortions nationwide with no exceptions for health/life of the mother. THat’s where they intend to go.

  63. 63.

    schrodingers_cat

    @sab: Teddy had some rather charming attitudes towards natives also.

    Has anyone noticed how the online left expressing solidarity for Palestine has morphed into open antisemitism and now anti-Americanism.
    Many of my Twitter peeps in India(who are on the left and oppose the BJP, that’s why they are mutuals) fall into this category.

  64. 64.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    I actually switched denists recently because the dentist I had retired and I was given a young dentist who preaches while I’m trapped in the chair. Sort of a nasty, judgmental preaching too – I can’t believe he thinks this is effective at sucking in adherents – he’s clearly fucking furious at the world. So much anger. Anyway! I went to a new group where I got a friendly, breezy millennial who is a good listener. Asks questions and listens to the answers. No preaching. But unlike your friend I had a choice.

  65. 65.

    Suzanne

    @Soprano2:

    but the press hasn’t told us about it because it’s one of those yucky “women’s issues” 

    This is a really important point. I am still astounded by how many men find women’s bodies gross.

  66. 66.

    eclare

    @Kay:

    When my mom was pregnant with me, she told anyone who had any kind of decision making power (this was 1968) not to take her to a Catholic hospital under any circumstance.

  70. 70.

    Chris

    @Soprano2:

    There’s also a weird resentment from a certain type of people, who feel on some level that there’s something wrong with all the bad behavior in “men’s spaces,” but are angry at the thought that the solution involves feminism and wokeness – or, more generally, simply angry at the reality that feminists and “woke” people are the only ones trying to solve the problem.  They really want to believe that the real problem is that we don’t respect authority and tradition and family values anymore and if only we could get back to that idealized flag-and-apple-pie world, men would stop acting like pigs.

    The fact that not only did this world never exist, but nobody on the “social conservative” side is even trying to make it exist, that if you want the world to look less like a nineties stand-up comedian’s wet dream, the only people on your side are wine moms and tedious activists instead of cops and preachers, just infuriates them, so they just reject that reality altogether.  And blame the feminists and wine moms.

    (The press corps, with all its self-importance and sense of being the gatekeepers of what is and isn’t proper behavior in politics, is lousy with this kind of thinking).

  71. 71.

    Ohio Mom

    @Another Scott: IIRC, Atrios has said he feels he needs to keep the site running because of the commentator community. They are a tight bunch and the baby blue blog is their internet home.

    On his Twitter, he describes himself as “used to be internet famous,” or he did, the last time I was over there.

    The internet was very good to him in the beginning, as I recall the bonanza from ad sales allowed him to buy a rowhouse. I sometimes wonder if he feels trapped or okay with coasting through the remainder of his career. It’s not like other sectors don’t have their middle-aged men coasting along until retirement.

  72. 72.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I don’t know for sure that it’s an astroturf group, but when I read a name like that all the red flags go up, and then seeing what they’re doing I get an even stronger sense that they’re not on the level.

  73. 73.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Religion and politics. He grew up in a poor area of Toledo and is a legit success story but he’s so bitter! He’s one of those religious Righties who thinks no one works except for them. I hate the assumption that I will AGREE with his views because it’s based on my age and race and economic level. He thinks we’re the same. We’re not. Also- just don’t fucking BOTHER me! I don’t do this to my people- I don’t trap them in my office and lecture them about critical race theory (although I could). It’s not about ME. It’s about them.

    My new dentist has that horrible 3 day beard young men love but as long as he sticks to my dental health and the weather we’ll get along just fine.

  74. 74.

    Soprano2

    @eclare: My friend who had to travel 100 miles for birth control told me she’d rather die in a ditch than go to a Catholic hospital.

  75. 75.

    sab

    @eclare: When my dad was in practice in the 1970s one of our local hospitals was run by an actual nun. Scary bad practice things went on in radiology because everyone was scared to challenge her bad decisions.

    A couple generations later the same hospital group has a Hindu CEO. He used to be our GP. We are very pleased. Sorry he’s not our GP anymore, but relieved he’s in charge.

  79. 79.

    Chris

    @sab:

    There’s something fascinating about the Teddy Roosevelt/Woodrow Wilson phase of liberalism.  It eventually gives way to the more laid-back liberalism of the New Deal years, which in turn gives way to the proactively pro-civil-rights liberalism of the postwar years, which in turns expands to include women’s liberation and gay rights and all that…  And yet, you can totally picture the alternate universe in which TR/WW style Progressivism eventually curdles into the explicit American version of fascism, and it would feel like just as natural a progression.

    The early twentieth century was a watershed moment.

  80. 80.

    eclare

    @Soprano2:

    Luckily we lived in Memphis so my mom had other hospital choices.  I was born at Memphis Baptist, huge downtown hospital.  Again, it was 1968, before the RWNJ’s took over healthcare.

    My mom would have agreed with your friend.

  81. 81.

    Kristine

    @Kay:

    I’m serious about wanting a regulator to look at outcomes for womens health in religious hospitals. This “sacrifice the mother” ideology is fucking scary if you’re flat on your back in the hospital at their mercy.

    I recall my mom telling me that at one RC hospital in which she worked in the 50s or early 60s (in NY state), the unspoken rule was that if given the choice between saving the mother or saving the baby, they were to save the baby. It would be very interesting to learn whether that has changed.

  82. 82.

    Ohio Mom

    @Soprano2: That’s the story of my cousin Eleanor. Aunt Ethel wanted her tubes tied after baby number four but the Catholic obstetrician refused. Thus baby number five, Eleanor.

    Now they lived in the Bronx and had plenty of choice of doctors, but Ethel was passive and easily overwhelmed. Maybe because she had more children then she could handle. Where was my uncle in all of this, exactly where he wanted to be.

    One of the mysteries to me of Ohio Dad’s family is that none of them can be objective about the others’ quirks. Everyone on my family knows the story of Eleanor, if it had happened in Ohio Dad’s family, no one would notice the back story.

    Yes, just had Thanksgiving with them.

  83. 83.

    sab

    @Kay: Do you know anything about Matriots? Ohio has a chapter. It’s a political action committee that is encouraging women to run for office. But the ones belonging around me seem to be very RWNJs sneaking on to school boards, as a more palatable alternative to Moms for Liberty.

  84. 84.

    Lyrebird

    @Kay: Sympathies.  I switched dermatologists in the state where we used to live, even though it added months to my appointment wait.  Older doc who wasn’t quite named Daniel Patrick Flaherty but close, had the nerve to rant about immigrants being lazy.  I wanted to give him a piece of my mind, but at the time he was already removing small pieces of my face.  I did clarify at the end of the procedure that yes his Irish forebears came through so-called “chain migration” just like mine did.  Ugh.​
     

    ETA: Ugh to his attitudes and his hypocrisy, not to his or my forebears.

  85. 85.

    Princess

    @Betty Cracker: The zealots will be 100% behind Trump no matter what he says because he has enough cred because he killed Roe. They know and I know and you know that if he’s president again and has the house and senate, there will be a complete ban on abortion in the country. White Republican woman who care about abortion but care about their taxes even more will be happy to trust what he says in the campaign and close their eyes and vote for him.

  86. 86.

    sab

    @Ohio Mom: My Catholic mother in law had her tubes tied after baby number six, over the objections of her priest. She said she had no intention of risking dying in childbirth and leaving her husband alone with all those kids.

  87. 87.

    Geminid

    @Scout211: Trump is still going to campaign in Iowa this coming weekend. Governor Reynolds and Iowa evangelical heavy-hitter Van der Platz are organizing for DeSantis and Trump’s team is not taking the state for granted.

    Trump might put his opponents away with decisive wins in Iowa and New Hampshire but conversely, poor showings in those states could presage a difficult renomination campaign.

  88. 88.

    Soprano2

    @Lyrebird: I used to have a GP who was decent enough, but then he started writing editorials in the local paper where he expressed pretty extreme right-wing views. That’s when I started looking for another GP, because it made me uncomfortable to know I was seeing a doctor with such extreme views even though he never mentioned them during our visits. I have a doc now that I’m extremely happy with.

  89. 89.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kristine: I had preeclampsia and gave birth at a Catholic hospital. My mom was a nurse there for 20+ years. She worked in the cardiac care unit, but when I was in labor, she parked herself by the door and would not budge, even though she’d done a shift earlier that day and it took 19 hours for the baby to be born.

    I knew my mom was out there and asked Bill to go tell her to go get some rest, get something to eat, etc., and he did. He also told her he was sure the baby would be fine. She said, “I’m not worried about YOUR baby, I’m worried about MINE.”

    Now I wonder if she was worried about the unspoken rule you mentioned…

  90. 90.

    Kay

    @Lyrebird:

    Good for you. It’s such a pain to switch and I knew they would want a whole new set of x rays but I felt so good once it was done. I just don’t need this aggravation and the feeling of helplessness because as you say we’re at their mercy during procedures.

    My middle son is coming over to the new one too, so Mr. Bitter Scolder lost two patients. I don’t understand bitter bootstrappers. He made it! Probably one of maybe 10% who made it to college from his poverty-stricken high school and he went all the way to dental school. Why isn’t he… happy? Why is he worried about people getting food stamps?

  93. 93.

    Matt

    “Subtle diplomacy” like giving a country $14b in weapons while pretending the casualty counts from their in-progress war crimes are propaganda.

    I’m sure those 5000+ dead Palestinian children will rest easier knowing that ol’ Joe is glad-handing with the guy who ordered them killed.

  94. 94.

    tam1MI

    Did anyone here watch the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day parade on Thursday? I was somewhat astounded that people on the Naive American float were brandishing Palestinian flags and the network didn’t cut away from it.

  95. 95.

    WaterGirl

    @zhena gogolia:

    There’s just this one leftie guy who has to offer a prayer request trolling Biden every week.

    Perhaps next week you could offer a prayer request, praying for people who are part of the problem, because they can never be satisfied.  Perhaps ending with “there are none so blind as those who will not see”.  Offer a prayer for those who are well-meaning but are being used by people who are very un-christian-like.

  96. 96.

    Scout211

    @Geminid: Trump is still going to campaign in Iowa this coming weekend. Governor Reynolds and Iowa evangelical heavy-hitter Van der Platz are organizing for DeSantis and Trump’s team is not taking the state for granted.

    From Trump’s recent statements (screeds), he is going there to exact revenge on Reynolds and Vander Plaatz.  Maybe the campaign is focused on beating DeSantis but he is focused on punishing the two traitors.

  97. 97.

    Kristine

    @Betty Cracker:

    Now I wonder if she was worried about the unspoken rule you mentioned…

    I have no doubt.

    And given what you’ve written about your mom, anyone who tried to enforce that rule would’ve been really, really sorry.

  99. 99.

    MomSense

    My reply function seems to be borked. This is re zhenagoglia and the ceasefire prayer.
    Wonder if the offerer of that prayer realizes that Israel and Palestine were in a ceasefire until Hamas broke it on 10/7?

  100. 100.

    tam1MI

    @Baud: Misspelling, or your name for a certain group of people?

    Misspelling. I meant “Native American”. Although “Naive American” has a certain ring…

  101. 101.

    Kay

    @Kristine:

    If they can do those rankings of “best maternity hospitals” they can do “worst” too, right? In terms of maternal mortality/poor health outcomes?

  106. 106.

    Kay

    cnnpolitics
    1h
    The Republican primary campaign is careening toward its final act, with seven weeks to go until the Iowa caucuses and former President Donald Trump the overwhelming favorite to claim his third consecutive GOP presidential nomination — and a rematch with the politically hobbled President Joe Biden.

    “Politically hobbled”. They are so, so hoping for a Trump win – good for their careers! Think of the book sales!
    When Biden beats these douchebags I hope he doesn’t answer any of their stupid questions for the entire second term. Make them irrelevant.

  111. 111.

    Betty Cracker

    I went to a Baptist school in 5th grade (my grandparents made me), and our homerun teacher was forced to abandon prayer requests because the kids started trying to one-up each other by making up ever more lurid tales about troubled family members and neighbors. It was pretty funny.

  112. 112.

    WaterGirl

    @zhena gogolia: I wonder if, perhaps, your might have won more than you think?  Maybe you opened other people’s eyes to him.  Just a thought!

    I suppose one last prayer requests praying for incorrigible dicks is out of the question!

  113. 113.

    Geminid

    @Scout211: Trump campaign manager Suzie Wilds knows how to motivate her candidate: with enemies. But Reynolds has a following and Van der Platz was a power in Iowa Republican politics long before Trump showed up. So this could be an interesting fight. I just hope the caucuses are contentious and bitter.

  115. 115.

    Scout211

    @Kay: They are so, so hoping for a Trump win – good for their careers! Think of the book sales!

    And just this morning,

    Scoop: Haberman, Swan sign deal for Trump book

    Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan have signed a deal for the definitive book about Donald Trump’s final act in public life — whatever that final act is.

    Why it matters: The two have owned the Trump beat for years, with deep, wide sources in his orbit and throughout the Republican Party he has transformed.

    Simon and Schuster won a furious competition for the deeply reported book by the two New York Times political correspondents.

    Ugh.

  121. 121.

    Kathleen

    @lowtechcyclist: What we do have is a bunch of  wannabe reality show stars who are constantly auditioning for jobs on “The Real Narcissists of The Ministry of Propaganda And Entertainment” co hosted by Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon, produced by Mark Burnett. Their jobs are currently protected by the Constitution.

  122. 122.

    Old School

    @Scout211:

    Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan have signed a deal for the definitive book about Donald Trump’s final act in public life — whatever that final act is.

    So Trump will die at the end of the book?

  124. 124.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Think of the ratings! Think of the hits on their web site! Never mind that he’s a fascist who wants to install a fascist dictatorship with him at the head, he’s good for their bottom line and exciting to cover to boot. It’s disgusting. All these idiots have to do it read about Project 2025 and tell people about it, but they’re too unmotivated to do that because it goes against what they want, which is another 4 year TFG presidency like the last one – lots of turmoil, but not much that actually affected their lives.

  129. 129.

    Kay

    @Scout211:

    Why it matters: The two have owned the Trump beat for years, with deep, wide sources in his orbit and throughout the Republican Party he has transformed.

    Simon and Schuster won a furious competition for the deeply reported book by the two New York Times political correspondents.

    It’s just so gross how they use their own media outlets to promote one another. How the hell do they know it’s “deeply reported” if it hasn’t been released? Did Maggie Haberman and the NYTimes tell them that?
    It’s all such cheap junk.

  130. 130.

    Kay

    @Scout211:

    I mean, seriously. Is there some limit to what extent the NYTimes and their horrible political team profit off the demise of this country? Christ almighty, the beach houses they all got in the first round weren’t enough?

    Putting their big, fat fingers on the scale in pursuit of their own careers and profit.

  131. 131.

    Kathleen

    @Chris: Carholic Church’s position was that sex in marriage was only for procreation. So interrupting the procreation process with a pill made sex a sin whether you were married or not. However you could use the “rhythm method” if you were married

  134. 134.

    catclub

    @Soprano2: ​
     

    it made me uncomfortable to know I was seeing a doctor with such extreme views even though he never mentioned them during our visits. I have a doc now that I’m extremely happy with.

    … and I have no idea what his views are on anything outside of medical care!

  135. 135.

    Kay

    @Kathleen:

    It’s nto about children, or pregnancy, or any of that. It’s about control of women. The single biggest predictor of an anti choice voter is a negative view of women.

    It’s interesting to watch these fundie religions and GOP politicians show their hand with the life/health of the mother- where they don’t trust women to judge when they need medical care – because health care is undergoing this whole process where they realize they have ignored womens self reports for decades. They’re currently training health care workers to stop letting antiquated notions about women get in the way of high quality care in the industry, while these religions and politicians go in the opposite direction. I know which group I’m going with.

  136. 136.

    Jackie

    @Soprano2:

    I never got the sense that they would force married women to quit using birth control

    I remember my mom needing dad to give her Dr permission to get birth control pills in the middle ‘60s to help regulate her periods.

  137. 137.

    Kathleen

    @Kay: I belive Republicans will next propose that mothers who die in childbirth will be jailed and prosecuted. I’m not trying to be snarky or glib either. Imagine how NYT or WaPoop will spin that. Again. this is not snark. This is truly where we are.

  138. 138.

    Kay

    @Kathleen:

    And of course a lot of women have a negative view of women, hence disrespect for or dislike of women remains the single biggest predictor- better than gender. If you believe women are sneaky and dishonest and intrinsically immoral and liable to do just about anything without a heavy hand controlling them you’re an anti choice voter. The views line up perfectly.

  139. 139.

    Miss Bianca

    @Baud:

    Why is the rhythm method ok if the intent is sex without procreation?

    Because it’s not supposed to work. (which I suspect you knew, anyway.) :)

    I’m so old I remember a “Congratulations” card in my baby book that read “What do you call people who practice the rhythm method?” and then you opened it up and it said: “Parents”.

    (Of course, as a sprout I had no idea what that meant – I thought “the rhythm method” had something to do with dancing! Probably because there was a dancing couple on the front of the card, who were then cooing over a baby inside.)

  140. 140.

    Kathleen

    @Baud: Liberals and Progressives cut self proclaimed “lefties” a lot of slack. Too much IMHO but very few agree with my views regarding how too little attention is paid to dangers from the left so I’ll shut up.

  141. 141.

    Kay

    @Kathleen:

    I genuinely worry about far Right prosecutors at the county level and miscarriages. But, it’s been really heartening to see what is a genuine “movement” spring up in response to Trump getting rid of Roe. It’s real and it came about DESPITE an almost complete lack of media coverage. Other than a couple of NPR reports the real consequences for women simply have not been covered but we found that people in Ohio were interested in it and wanted to talk about it. Media isn’t leading this or writing the narrative. They’re way behind the public. It’s a beautiful thing when that happens :)

  144. 144.

    narya

    @Kay: I’m in the middle of last week’s “Strict Scrutiny,” which is a deep dive into the Texas lawsuit. It’s brutal going: they’re reading the trial transcript, and the utter contempt of the prosecutor for a woman who was basically told to go wait until she was near death–and who nearly died as a result, plus suffered impaired fertility–is enraging and depressing.

  146. 146.

    Kathleen

    @Baud: I’m just the messenger LOL. The rhythm method is complicated and unpredictable and not effective. I’m just repeating rules decreed by an institution which covered up decades of abuse of children.

  147. 147.

    Kathleen

    @Kay: Yes. Control of women’s bodies. ETA auditing differences in outcomes between Carholic and non Catholic hospitals should be done.

  148. 148.

    StringOnAStick

    @Soprano2: The Christian identity white supremacists want zero birth control for anyone, married or not, because making more white babies for the fatherland is essential to that “you will not replace us” theme.  If they could write laws that all nonwhite people are automatically sterilized, they would.

  149. 149.

    geg6

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: ​ Yep. Same here. One of the major Pittsburgh hospitals was run by the Sisters of Mercy and, if you had pregnancy complications, you knew not to go there because they would let you die before doing a D&C.​
     

    ETA: That hospital is now part of UPMC, so not so much anti-woman now.

  151. 151.

    geg6

    @Soprano2: ​
     
    They don’t consider it a punishment for sex within marriage, but they certainly do consider children and being a stay-at-home mom the chains that keep women in a marriage whether they like it or not. Thus, no birth control for married women either.

  153. 153.

    Bill Arnold

    @zhena gogolia:
    Some in the “ceasefire now” anti-American/anti-Israeli contingents are insisting that it is a truce.. (No, more formal than that.)
    Truce, Cease-Fire and Armistice: The Legal Nuances (NYTimes, Patrick J. Lyons, Feb. 22, 2016)
    This, from 2016, is helpful. Looks like it is currently a temporary “cessation of hostilities” in this taxonomy, at least, and maybe a “ceasefire”. (I copied most of the piece here.)

    Strictly speaking, a truce is an informal halt in fighting. They are typically arranged locally — think of enemy commanders agreeing under a white flag to allow each side some time to evacuate casualties from a battlefield. Truces tend to be brief and temporary, and do not necessarily signal any willingness to settle the larger conflict.
    A cessation of hostilities is broader and more formal than a truce, but is not quite a cease-fire agreement. One or both sides declare that they will suspend fighting over all. Cessations are usually meant to be the start of a larger peace process, but they are provisional and nonbinding, and in a conflict that involves many parties, like the civil war in Syria, the cessation may apply to only some opponents.
    A cease-fire is typically a negotiated agreement to cease hostilities and take other steps to calm things down, like pulling back heavy weapons or marking out a “green line” or demilitarized zone to separate opposing forces. Though cease-fires are usually meant to be binding, to last a while and to hold even after a few violations, they do not themselves end a conflict, only pause it.
    An armistice is a formal agreement to cease all military operations in a conflict permanently. It ends the war, but it does not establish peace; for that, a peace treaty must be negotiated and ratified. But in an armistice, the parties make a commitment to stop trying to settle their differences on the battlefield.

  154. 154.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Chris: Definitely. TR was big on fretting about “race suicide”; WW was both extremely racist and keen on draconian civil liberties violations for the domestic war effort.

  157. 157.

    Brachiator

    If you try to tell this to the mainstream media, they look at you like you have three heads. All they see is the short staircase, the occasional gaffe, and the comfort sneakers. The idea Biden’s deep experience and subtle diplomacy gets things done never enters their thinking

    Coming late to the thread to see good news about hostage releases.

    I really want to comment AL for selecting an instructive set of Twitter posts that demonstrate how committed some of the media is to pushing their “Biden is too old narrative.” This is as meretricious as Trump’s bullshit about rigged elections.

    And Biden has got things done despite a GOP House leadership with its head up its ass and Republican Senators foolishly trying to block key Biden appointments.

    What a world.

  159. 159.

    StringOnAStick

    @Kay: When I spent 6 years as a temp dental hygienist, I got to see a lot of different offices (Denver area).  Invariably the ones where I had concerns about asepsis standards were the RW ones, and the only places where they physically barred me from the sterilization room were RW Christian offices (I suspected they were using very outdated equipment that would not pass legal muster).

    Dentistry tends to be a conservative profession, especially the older guys, and they run their offices like abusive petty dictators.  In CO you can’t file a complaint about a dental office unless your name is fully public, a system that guarantees that only the most egregious ones get busted because the reporter will likely be blackballed and lose their career.  The old boys club is real and it’s one of the reasons why I love looking at the photos of more recent graduating dental classes: Now at least half are women.

  160. 160.

    Ruckus

    @Chris:

    Conservatism is Control.

    Everything is about that – control. This is so that everyone’s life is the same restricted, zero or close to it concept of everything. IOW everything as far away from democracy as possible but still able to call it that. “We have a free country – as long as you follow all our demands to live just as we want demand how everyone has to exist!” You have the freedom to breathe as long as everything else is to their “standards.”

  161. 161.

    geg6

    @Baud: ​
     
    Because the chances you would actually procreate using the rhythm method were roughly 90%, based on my own family’s experience. There is a reason my parents had six kids and would have had more had my mother’s uterus held up.

  165. 165.

    Jackie

    Probably a dead thread, but:

    Speaker Mike Johnson will be in Sarasota, Fla., today for a tour of the airport and a fundraiser with Rep. Vern Buchanan (R-Fla.), a wealthy member of the House Ways and Means Committee.

    A few things to note: Johnson and Buchanan are touring the Sarasota Bradenton International Airport. They will receive an “update on the airport’s new terminal expansion project. The $100M project includes a 5-gate terminal, covering 75,300 sq ft. The new facility will also include a 4-lane security checkpoint and 5 boarding hold rooms with 970 seats,” according to Buchanan’s office.

    Some of this fundingis from the $1-trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill, which Johnson and Buchanan both voted against.

    https://punchbowl.news/archive/112723-punchbowl-news-am/

    I’d love to see a crowd of FL Dems waving “Thanks Biden!” at the Sarasota Bradenton International Airport while Johnson’s there!

  166. 166.

    marcopolo

    @Soprano2: If both amendments pass, my understanding is the one with the most votes takes effect.  This is exactly why this new group (which has to be another trick funded by Rs–and only possible because of the endless delay and court shit regarding the initial ballot initiative) is muddying the waters.  I haven’t seen any Rs attacking it.  We are just going to have to word of mouth the fuck out of explaining all of it & keep our fingers crossed the 24 week version wins.

  170. 170.

    geg6

    @Baud: ​ TBH, my mom was most definitely NOT trying avoid pregnancy. My dad was the one who insisted (he was a reluctant RC convert). And he only insisted because my mom had had such a difficult time with her first four pregnancies that he was afraid she’d die. She would never have stopped having kids if she hadn’t been forced to have a hysterectomy after my youngest sister was born.​
     
    For context on how Catholics used to look at these things, I go back to my mother. Her parents finally had their first live baby at age 41. That is, after my grandmother had been pregnant 12 times and either miscarried or had a stillbirth for each one.

  171. 171.

    StringOnAStick

    @Matt McIrvin: WW’s draconian civil liberties violations while the country nearly collapsed from the Spanish Flu deserve more notoriety too.  Plus requiring continued troop shipments when the epidemiologists begged him not to is why that deadly flu rapidly  spread from its origin in Kansas to all over the world.

  172. 172.

    Jeffro

    @Chris:I think Trump understands that at their core what animates most “pro-life” voters isn’t babies’ lives, or religious piety, or even the question of abortion itself: it’s misogyny.  And as President “grab her by the pussy, when you’re a star they let you do it” Trump, he has a unique credibility in that respect.  They don’t need him to pass the abortion litmus test to prove that he believes women are less than men; he’s already proven that to their satisfaction, and that’s what they really care about.

    Yup.  He was, after all, the guy who said, “There has to be some form of punishment” [for women who have abortions]

  173. 173.

    Ohio Mom

    @Paul in KY: There’s something about this math that doesn’t add up. Yes, more whitey-white babies if birth control and abortion are universally banned but also many more babies of all other colors. Aren’t those behind the bans worried about there being too many of “them”?

  175. 175.

    Ruckus

    @Soprano2:

    No sex is their idea of birth control. The concept that a human can enjoy sex is against their concept of humanity. No enjoyment, only suffering is their entire concept of humanity. Read that bible, all of it. Listen to the sermons, read the entire book, not just the suggested parts. Life is about suffering and nothing should get in the way of that. And yes, I was sent to church as a child. But I could read at a very young age, so I did exactly as I suggested, I read the bible. I had to attend church as a child and wondered what that had to do with life. People all around did not attend church and survived and prospered. Then I watched and the people that attended church did the same things as those that didn’t. They just felt guilty about it. But they didn’t stop doing those things. Seemed like a complete fucking waste of time and effort, that going to church for absolution so they could continue doing human things. The level of guilt for doing non harmful human things seemed asinine. Living for a lot of decades since hasn’t changed my mind that it actually is asinine.

  176. 176.

    BR

    @Kay: ​
    Just because people have short memories, there need to be billboards saying “Trump’s Judges Ended Roe” in swing districts across the country.

  178. 178.

    cain

    @Soprano2:

    @Chris: Don’t they believe that if you got rid of all the birth control the young women would all quit having sex outside of marriage? That’s the sense I’ve always gotten about their position against birth control. If they could limit it to married people only they might be OK with some birth control. It’s all about controlling young people’s sex lives, not “saving babies”

    It’s only women’s sex lives. Notice how the man can squeak past – and it’s always the woman – since they also use the Adam and Eve story as the reason.

    They are still mad that women kicked them out of paradise – it’s absolutely crazy to me that some stupid story that absolutely has as much basis of truth as greek myths is why women are being condemned. Crazy fucks.

  179. 179.

    Scout211

    Musk went to Israel  to try to make nice.  The advertisers are watching.

    Elon Musk visited Israel Monday, meeting the country’s leaders and walking through a kibbutz destroyed by Hamas last month as he tried to calm outrage caused by his endorsement of an anti-semitic post on his social media platform, X.

    Musk was taken to Kfar Azza — one of the kibbutzim attacked on October 7 — by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The kibbutz was the home of Abigail Edan, a four-year-old American dual citizen abducted by the militant group that day and released Sunday.

    In a live online conversation on X with Netanyahu Monday, Musk agreed with the prime minister that Israel must destroy Hamas.

  180. 180.

    Jackie

    @BR: Not just swing states. There are Blue pockets in Red states that could display those billboards, too. Plenty of GQP voters who are uncomfortable with their government sticking their noses in their Dr’s exam rooms drive in/thru those areas!

  185. 185.

    trollhattan

    Meanwhile, petro-state uses climate summit to build on petro bidnez. Surprising? Experts disagree.

    Leaked briefing documents reveal plans to discuss fossil fuel deals with 15 nations.

    The UN body responsible for the COP28 summit told the BBC hosts were expected to act without bias or self-interest.

    The UAE team did not deny using COP28 meetings for business talks, and said “private meetings are private”.

    It declined to comment on what was discussed in the meetings and said its work has been focused on “meaningful climate action”.

    The documents – obtained by independent journalists at the Centre for Climate Reporting working alongside the BBC – were prepared by the UAE’s COP28 team for meetings with at least 27 foreign governments ahead of the COP28 summit, which starts on 30 November.

    They included proposed “talking points”, such as one for China which says Adnoc, the UAE’s state oil company, is “willing to jointly evaluate international LNG [liquefied natural gas] opportunities” in Mozambique, Canada and Australia.

    The documents suggest telling a Colombian minister that Adnoc “stands ready” to support Colombia to develop its fossil fuel resources.

    There are talking points for 13 other countries, including Germany and Egypt, which suggest telling them Adnoc wants to work with their governments to develop fossil fuel projects.
    BBC

    Have to acknowledge the vast cynicism here. Really top notch.

  186. 186.

    Geminid

    @Scout211: A lot of anti-semites are like Musk. They support Jewish people living 5,000 miles away but resent the Jewish Americans they share a country with.

  189. 189.

    lowtechcyclist

    @sab:

    My Catholic mother in law had her tubes tied after baby number six, over the objections of her priest.

    You fill up my Census
    like a family of Catholics…

  191. 191.

    Paul in KY

    @Kathleen: IMO, I think the ‘Dangers from The Left’ ™ pale in comparison to the ‘Dangers from the Right’. At least at this period in time.

  192. 192.

    Paul in KY

    @Ohio Mom: They don’t like the ‘too many of them’ aspect, but they are trying to get newer generations of stooges/parishioners for their places, so they want this for that reason. Anyway, soon Pres for Life Trump will be putting all those ‘others’ on boats for their ‘real’ homelands anyway, so your point will (Trump Willing) be moot! Also! Too!

  193. 193.

    Freemark

    @Soprano2: ​
      I didn’t get that from his posts at all. He is pessimistic but that certainly isn’t unreasonable considering the realities. He wants the US to stop pretending Israel under Netanyahu is a reasonable partner and not the really bad actor that it actually is.

  194. 194.

    Martin

    @Ohio Mom: Sure, but there are other ways of dealing with that.

    The issue right now is that they are demographically in decline, and at least part of that solution has to be more white babies because they are worried about the impact of birth control and abortion in the white community that they can see. The effect that might have on birthrates for people of color is a separate problem to be dealt with separately – and many of them believe that those birthrates won’t change because they are already higher – that people of color aren’t availing themselves of these instruments the way that whites are. But the birthrate is the long-term concern, where the growing populations of color can be addressed in short-term plans – deporting them, denying them access to voting, etc. They know they need to rule from a minority position while trying to grow back to a majority position.

    But I think you’re also giving them too much credit for this being part of a goal-based strategy and not a reactionary ‘OMG, look how many brown people there are, we need to make more white people’ or how that sentiment might be comorbid with ideas that God will reward them for making more white christian babies – some degree of magical thinking.

    And if you look at the real leaders of the ‘more white babies’ thing, they are all straight up fascists, and so the movement may be less of a conservative electoral strategy and more of a fascist we-will-genocide-our-way-to-power kind of strategy, where more babies isn’t part of politics as you’re thinking, but part of a racial purity eugenics plan. The electoral strategy is AR-15s, not babies.

  195. 195.

    Chris

    @Kay:

    It’s not even “profit” in the literal, “if Fort Knox is nuked, the value of my gold decuples” sense.  It’s middle-school playground follow-the-leader rules.  They’re the remoras who’ve found a bully and attached themselves to him so they can be badass by association and so that when he pushes kids’ faces into water fountains, they can be among those laughing at them and not those about to be them.

    (The bully in this case is the Republican Party and more generally the conservative movement, not Trump – this dynamic was in force long before he came along).

  196. 196.

    Chris

    @StringOnAStick:

    In general, the massive civil liberties violations in World War One, the original Red Scare, and World War Two all deserve way more attention, though the first of these is probably the least well known.

    The second Red Scare that everybody remembers was actually pretty mild by comparison, but it actually targeted “respectable” people (actors, politicians, senior officers and civil servants, Ivy League professors) instead of a few activists and certain ethnic groups, so it made a much stronger impression on mainstream society.  I think liberal activism for civil liberties that’s happened in the seventy years since owes a lot to 1950s liberals who thought they were above that kind of suspicion, and/or never really thought much about the consequences of these hysterias, getting caught flat-footed and actually internalizing the lesson that “oh, yeah, this is bad actually.”

  197. 197.

    Geminid

    @Freemark: Joe Biden and his team know who and what Benjamin Netanyahu is better than this Duncan Black guy. They deal with Netanyahu despite his character. Black should know this, but like many he likes to think he knows more about Israeli politics than Joe Biden does.

    This is not surprising; a lot of Americans think they know Israeli politics better than Israelis do.

  198. 198.

    stinger

    @Geminid:

    evangelical heavy-hitter Van der Platz

    He’s inexplicably powerful in the Iowa Republican party. Vander Plaats ran for governor in 2002, 2006, and 2010, losing every time. He was the R nominee for lt. governor in 2006 and lost.

    Nationally, he supported Huckabee in 2008, Santorum in 2012, and Ted Cruz in 2016. And now DeSantis.  The guy’s a loser backing losers.

  199. 199.

    Geminid

    @stinger: The losers Van der Platz backs somtimes win the Iowa caucuses before they lose the nomination race that follows.. Trump and his people will point that out if he somehow comes in second, but they’d rather not have to do this.

  202. 202.

    OGLiberal

    @Geminid: I do see Black giving credit where credit was due sometimes.  I think he is mostly critical of some of the folks who work for Biden, like he was with Larry Summers under Obama. (of course, Black still hates Larry Summers…which is quite defensible)  I think his biggest argument is that Biden should not be influenced by some of the bad – sometimes very bad – ideas these folks have about what should be done.  With this ceasefire I think Biden has struck as perfect a balance as he can.  There’s not much he can do to get Bibi to do mostly what we want/prefer, short of cutting off significant funding…and that is never, ever going to happen and would have a huge negative impact for Democrats in future elections. (and, also, potentially hurt rank-and-file Israelis, including those who don’t like Bibi…although there are plenty to the right of Bibi who might be worse)

    Time will tell but this ceasefire looks like a pretty big win for Biden and, more important, the people under fire in Gaza/Israel.  I’m even reading that both sides are open to an extension.

  203. 203.

    Geminid

    @OGLiberal: Also, Biden helped pressire Netanyahu into accepting opposition party leader Benny Gantz’s terms for forming a new “unity” government. That means the PM is now one member of a three man War Cabinet, along with Gantz and Defense Minister Gallant. The War Cabinet’s control of major decisions is part of the agreement ratified by the Knesset and has the force of law.

    This happened 5 days into the war, after intense pressure from the US, Knesset members including some in the Likud party, and the Israeli public. A lot of people here did not notice this change, but if Black has not mentioned it he hasn’t been paying attention.

  204. 204.

    OGLiberal

    @Geminid: Yes, he could mention the good stuff a bit more.  I think Biden and his team have handled this very difficult situation – more difficult than Ukraine, politically speaking – as well as they could.  It’s up to the Israeli people to get rid of Bibi once and for all, before he’s able to pull what Trump is trying to do here.  Sounds like they’ve had it with him so he might be gone – but dude is such a survivor and so corrupt that I don’t have much faith that will happen.  Also, the Israeli left basically doesn’t exist these days – at least not in numbers where they matter.  And some of Bibi’s louder opponents on the right are not any better than him and, in some cases, worse.  I’d be happy if they could just get to a point where any coalition that includes Likud does not also include Bibi as PM.

  205. 205.

    Geminid

    @OGLiberal: Now that Meretz is out of the Knesset, Labor is probably the most liberal of the mainly Jewish parties. They have only 4 seats though. And they are probably as hawkish on the Gaza war as the Center parties including Gantz’s.

    There are 10 or 11 Arab party MKs. The Hadat-Taal group are “Left” and want a permanent ceasefire and then a Two-state resolution to the larger conflict. Mansour Abbas’s Ra’am party is conservative on social issues; I have not seen their position on a ceasefire. Ra’am was a member of the last government, and they increased their members in the last election by one, from 4 to 5, so some Israeli Arabs evidently liked what they saw.

    Meretz was the “peace party.” They had 12 MKs going into 2001, but the Second Intifadah and the suicide bombing campaign that accompanied it knocked the props from under the peace camp. Meretz could only elect 5 or 6 MKs afterwards and last November they fell below the 3.25% threshold and were blanked.

    Meretz got 3.15% and the Arab Balad party got 2.86%. Essentially, these votes were wasted and that turned a 50-50 popular vote split between the pro-and anti-Netayahu parties into a 64-56 majority for Likud and three partners. These were the two Ultra-Orthodox parties and the Kahanist bloc led by Smotrich and Ben-Gvir. I think Likud got 32 MKs, United Torah got 6, Shas (the Sephardic “Haredi” party) got 12 and the Kahanists got 14.

    Netanyahu could have formed a coalition with a center party, but he was desperate to fix his corruption case. A center party would not have helped, but Smotrich and Ben-Gvir would. They extracted a steep price in Cabinet power because they knew Netanyahu was desperate.

    The new government was organized right before the deadline and took office January 1st. Then they started running the country into the ground.

  208. 208.

    evodevo

    @Betty Cracker: ​
      We had a situation in KY back in 2012 with a proposed merger of the U of L medical center and Catholic Health Initiatives…luckily it did not go through. I find it odd that Catholic dioceses all over the country are declaring bankruptcy due to all those sex abuse victim lawsuits, but they still seem to have the funds to buy out local secular hospitals (and then impose their religious strictures on health care, even when they supposedly have agreed not to) and take them over…
    https://www.epstudiossoftware.com/university-of-louisville-hospital-merger-with-catholic-health-initiatives-rejected/

  209. 209.

    YY_Sima Qian

    I think the Biden team deserved most the criticism for uncritical support (at least publicly) given Israel, even though plenty in Israeli government & security-intelligence apparatus had telegraphed that it will be a war of vengeance, & for the immediate U.N. conditional supply of arms & munitions. I also think the Biden team deserved more credit than they received for the instances they were able to convince or cajole Israel to restrain itself via private discussion, especially in the last couple of weeks. That is the cost of applying pressure only in private. This temporary truce is a real achievement. If it can be extended much longer then it will be a huge achievement of the Biden team applying its self limited leverage judiciously, while minimizing domestic political cost. Even if this achievement comes after 14K Palestinians have already been killed during the bombing campaign (& thousands more missing under the rubble), 70+% of all Gazans displaced from their homes w/ uncertain prospect for return (& only rubble to return to).

    However, I don’t see the truce lasting much longer. Israel is not going to leave Hamas as it currently is in Gaza – damaged but not fundamentally degraded. As Adam L. Silverman had written, the Israeli government is giving every indication of resuming high intensity warfare once all of the women & children hostages they could exchange are back, & have written off the rest. To destroy Hamas the IDF will have to go into the southern half of the Gaza Strip, where the vast majority of the 2+M Gazans are now crowded in. I am afraid that the positive glow of the temporary truce & hostage/prisoner exchange will be quickly overtaken by subsequent events.

Comments are closed.