Credit where due to this Iowa Republican standing up to criticism of the leg for following its policy and allowing a 14 day Satanist display on the grounds, as they do with other religions. https://t.co/wOwxSVgXyc
— David Burbach (also @dburbach Bluesky) (@dburbach) December 10, 2023
Rep. Pastor Dunwell has indeed done well. Full text of his (very long) message at the bottom of this post. (Needless to say, the ‘good Christian’ responses to his message make it clear that for many among the Jesus Flock, it’s not about actually professing the tenets of their faith, it’s about demanding *everyone else* bend the knee.)
Elsewhere…
For 25 years, the International Space Station has impacted our view of Earth and who we are. It has served as a lesson in international cooperation and the importance of taking action to care for our planet.
Happy birthday, @Space_Station! pic.twitter.com/RaccWeQ4I6
— Vice President Kamala Harris (@VP) December 10, 2023
BREAKING NEWS: Vice President Kamala Harris is now the sole record holder for most tie breaking votes cast by any Vice President in US History! https://t.co/qwdey65oX7
— That Unhinged Biden Guy (@What46HasDone) December 5, 2023
Bingo. "Elections in my democratic country are pointless" is a self-fulfilling prophecy that baffles those of us from authoritarian regimes where our votes, when they existed at all, really were worthless. https://t.co/C1ulAYhTZl
— Garry Kasparov (@Kasparov63) December 5, 2023
Speaking of Iowa…
2024 Primary schedule (Jan. & Feb.)
We are only 37 days away from the Republican Iowa caucus. pic.twitter.com/syomKJOn4d
— Candidly Tiff (@tify330) December 9, 2023
On The Road – Albatrossity – Mid-century Modern Christmases
NotMax
Y’know, the future ain’t what it used to be.
;)
Ben Cisco
He’ll get primaried for it.
Betty
Maybe Pastor Dunwell could counsel Mike Johnson on the proper interpretation of the First Amendment. Mike seems to be confused.
OzarkHillbilly
@Betty: He’s not confused, he just doesn’t care about anything that gets in the way of imposing his religious beliefs on others.
Suzanne
This guy can say goodbye to his career. He and Mitt Romney can commiserate over a (root) beer.
NotMax
Dear Mr. Dunwell,
Produce demands equal time!
:)
Suzanne
@NotMax: Can someone do a FSM display, STAT?
Geminid
I see Nevada Democrats have finally moved to a primary. Caucuses are a poor way to decide elections so it’s not surprising the Nevada Republicans will still go that route.
I saw an item in Politico Playbook this morning: Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee lost the runoff for Houston Mayor Saturday. She has until this afternoon to file for reelection to Congress.
RandomMonster
Good morning and Hail Satan!
RevRick
Coerced faith is no faith at all. Worship at the Satanic Temple is closer to what Jesus envisioned as the Kingdom of God, than you must bend your knee to my way … or else! Because the Kingdom of God/Heaven must mean the full flourishing of humanity— fully human and fully alive — or it’s just the latest imperialism with a coat of religious language painted on top.
OzarkHillbilly
@Suzanne: All you need is a colander.
Baud
@Geminid:
👍
Matt McIrvin
People who want the state to get mixed up in religion never seem to imagine that somebody else’s version of faith could end up in the driver’s seat.
Kay
Judge is approaching this case with what has become the usual cavalier, careless approach to womens health and autonomy and liberty:
Same sloppy, junk work as the anti abortion lobbyists. He can’t be bothered to figure any of this out – it’s not important. They already have a physician’s opinion that it was a miscarriage, which they are ignoring. Meanwhile this young woman with no criminal record will now be indicted for having a miscarriage.
We want the indictment process halted and an inquiry into why the prosecutor tried to bring charges. Do they need a basic, 6th grade level course in facts about pregnancy and womens health? Do we have to require that?
NotMax
@Suzanne
While waiting, would ya settle for this?
:)
lowtechcyclist
Truth.
Baud
@Kay:
Oppressing the oppressors? Not cool, say the oppressors.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Kay: Holy moly. A lot of pregnancies end in miscarriages, and I would bet that if the miscarriage is early enough, many of them occur on the toilet. This is insane
ETA: Also that guy babbling about viability? The woman miscarried. What is he talking about?
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊😊😊
lowtechcyclist
@Matt McIrvin:
Even if Christianity exactly as I see and experience it were made the official religion, that would turn it into a disaster before too long. I don’t want anyone’s faith in the driver’s seat, including my own.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
catclub
@Matt McIrvin: The people who pushed religious charter schools in Louisiana do not smile on Islamic madrassahs getting that sweet government money.
lowtechcyclist
@Kay:
What a horror show. Flushing one’s miscarried fetus down the toilet is not uncommon – it’s happened to women I know. I mean, what are they expecting women in that situation to do, grab a net from their aquarium, fish it out of the toilet, and take it down to the funeral parlor? Boggles the mind.
Kay
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I’m trying to find out more about the hospital visits- I bet she was sent home to miscarry – refused medical care – because anti abortion state agents have providers so cowed they won’t even treat miscarrying women anymore. She’s lucky she didn’t bleed to death.
Anyway
@catclub:
Undermining public schools is the overarching goal
NotMax
Regarding those gifts, FYI.
Kay
@lowtechcyclist:
The GJ are going to indict. The state is portraying her as an evil, selfish, scheming woman – the anti abortion movement’s depiction of women – and she’s AA and AA are prosecuted at a higher rate for pregnancy-related offenses.
Matt McIrvin
@lowtechcyclist: I think that for the people who do, the power to coerce is primary. Conservatives imagine that liberals want regulations just to control people for its own sake–I suspect a lot of that is projection.
Baud
@Kay:
Less political backlash that way.
Kay
This was exactly my fear with miscarriage and anit abortion extremists, which I said on this blog. A miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion and any random Right wing assistant county prosecutor can now bring charges on it whenever they feel like it. They aren’t physicians, yet they’re making these calls that they aren’t qualified or trained to make. Women are being prosecuted on religious and ideological grounds for medical issues. I knew it would happen.
sdhays
@Kay: In a just society, the prosecutor would find himself charged with felony abuse of power over something like this.
Suzanne
@Kay:
JFC.
I know there are legions of men out there who find women’s bodies extremely gross and mysterious. It’s a tragedy there’s any of these adolescents in positions of authority.
Matt McIrvin
The ghouls who pass and enforce these laws need to be removed from power. Stuff that got dismissed as a strawman parade of horribles is actually happening all over. We saw them happen in Central and South America years ago when they had a wave of super strict abortion laws and people didn’t listen then.
Anyway
@Kay:
Ah, I wondered about that. I feel for the poor woman – first having to lose the pregnancy and now being hounded by the state.
Trivia Man
@Matt McIrvin: I hereby propose that we outlaw baptism by immersion (heresy!!) and the use of alcohol in any ritual (think of the children!!)
I bet one or the other or both of those could pass in about half the counties in n America.
WaterGirl
@Kay: This story gives new meaning to WTF is wrong with these people?
Kay
@Baud:
Trumbull County is a Trump county but voted for the abortion rights amendment by a comfortable margin, so it is not, actually, the will of the voters in Trumbull that women be prosecuted for miscarriages. But obviously Trump county + AA “Bad Woman” probably changes the analysis.
I’m hoping The Women of Social Media can generate enough public outrage that they quietly drop this whole mess and leave this poor woman alone.
lowtechcyclist
@Matt McIrvin:
“Who would Jesus coerce?”
Kosh III
”
“When religion and politics travel in the same cart, the riders believe nothing can stand in their way. Their movements become headlong – faster and faster and faster. They put aside all thoughts of obstacles and forget the precipice does not show itself to the man in a blind rush until it’s too late.” FrankHerbert
Kay
@WaterGirl:
Women on social media are treating it as sort of a companion case to the Texas case where the Texas AG won’t allow access to medical care, so that’s good. The Ohio case got picked up by international outlets yesterday so idrawing attention is working.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay: Somebody should sue these DAs for practicing medicine w/o a license.
Ken
Rep. Dunwell’s response misses the point in one respect. The Satanic Temple doesn’t worship Satan; they use the imagery to promote civil rights and the separation of church and state. When a legislature or court says that it’s OK to display a manger or cross on public property because it’s not a government endorsement of religion, the Temple shows up to say “Oh really? Then this shouldn’t be a problem either.”
gene108
As someone who enthusiastically registered to vote in high school, and eagerly voted, at 17, in the 1992 Democratic primary election, moved out of state after graduating college and did not vote from the ages of 24 to 29 (1998, 2000, and 2002).
I can get being preoccupied in one’s 20’s with other things than following politics, but somewhere shocking comes along it gets one off their butt and back to voting.
For me, it was Bush, Jr.’s first term in office. I made sure to register for the 2004 election and have been a regular voter ever since.
I’m not sure what the 18 to 29 year old voters need to be shocked into becoming regular voters. Maybe nothing can because everything’s been so cynical, since they were born they never knew anything else.
I don’t really know.
Scout211
Here is the GoFundMe for Brittany Watts to help her pay her legal fees.
Justice for Brittany Watts
it’s currently at $30,000 after asking for $20,000 (now the goal is $40,000).
Her story is recounted on the GoFundMe page, which concludes:
Brit in Chicago
Dunwell’s distinction between his opinions “as a follower of Christ” and his opinions (and actions) “as an Iowan and a State Representative” is enormously important. Each person to be free to believe what they want on religious matters; all such beliefs to be kept out of the public sphere, to play no role in setting government policy (precisely because other people are also entitled to their religious beliefs, and they may differ from yours—and yes, other people are real and have rights too).
I suspect I’m opposed to Dunwell on just about every political question but he has the crucial thing right. It should not be thought of as a political question but rather as defining the region within which political questions and political differences arise.
As some guy is said to have said: Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s.
SiubhanDuinne
@Scout211:
Wait. WHAT? Does this mean that the authorities (cops, prosecutors) smashed up the plumbing in her house? Utterly obscene.
eclare
@Scout211:
Glad to see that, thanks.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
Having been coerced into joining someone else’s One True Faith by people with governmental authority over me(1) (I only escaped by lucky timing), I have no sympathy for people who complain that religions they don’t approve of get equal time with their preferred One True Faith.
Anyway, as I understand it, the Satanic Temple isn’t so much extolling evil as throwing a spotlight on the sanctimoniousness and hypocrisy of Christianist in-your-face dogma. Or am I mistaken in that?
(1) I was an army conscript. The person telling me to get baptized was an officer. Pretty simple math if you ask me.
ETA: And I see @Ken at 42 got there before I did.
Scout211
Yes, they took her toilet as evidence and scraped out the plumbing to get the remains as evidence.
ETA: from a local news source.
Matt McIrvin
@gene108: Many states and municipalities make it difficult for college students to vote locally, and will sometimes openly say they don’t think these kids should be voting. I think there are a lot of kids who register and then don’t jump through the required hoops to keep voting in college. That gets them out of the habit.
Denali5
I was in ER by the time I miscarried. The thought of being prosecuted for what happened never occurred to me. These poor women are living through dangerous times.
NotMax
@Brit in Chicago
“Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s.”
– Jay Sarno
;)
schrodingers_cat
@Scout211: Who snitched on her? How did the police even become involved?
Living in a red state is hazardous to your health if you are woman, especially if you are not white.
Are there numbers on how many women are prosecuted under these new laws and their demographic breakdown
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
There’s a misdemeanor abuse of a corpse, too, so they could have pounded their chests in religious fervor and still avoided saddling her with a felony. They charged her with the felony. That’s probably the “enhancement for being AA”.
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
*sorry – not “charged” – but the GJ will indict.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay: Grand juries in these cases should be made up of women only. Men are too ignorant.
Soprano2
@Kay: Being able to do things like this is the whole point of criminalizing abortion. Several R’s in the MO legislature are once again going to introduce a bill to charge any woman who gets an abortion with HOMICIDE. So even if you leave the state to get a legal abortion, when you return they want to charge you with murder. And then they wonder why young people are leaving states like MO in droves.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
🎶Badiyah! Something to remember🎶
🎶Badiyah! Flooding in December🎶
Another Scott
@Ken: +1
There’s a method to their practices.
Cheers,
Scott.
Frankensteinbeck
Dude. DUDE. Your religious symbol is a man being crucified. At best the simplified person is a crucifix, a torture and execution implement. Your symbol of light and hope is a primitive electric chair.
The satanists put up a goat in a red robe and some candles.
jonas
That struck me as well. He clearly has no clue what the Satanic Temple is or what their actual tenets are. But at least he’s standing up for their right to have their display.
Jeffro
Just a quick reminder about what we’re talking about (and should be talking to others about) when we talking about inflation: sheer, unadulterated price-gouging
(despite record profits, of course)
Btw on an economic note, Catherine Rampell had up a good piece in the WaPo a day or two ago about how the U.S. economy is – despite having weathered a global pandemic – doing better now than it was projected to in early 2020. Government intervention works, if it’s early enough and big enough.
She also made the great point that perhaps the national sour mood on the economy might be due to people feeling that they were due/overdue for a big raise, but naturally didn’t like the price hikes that also ensued over these past few years (even if, on net, they’re ahead)
Soprano2
I have to say, I need to stay out of the comments of Adam’s posts. There is lots of good information in the posts, but the comments are a celebration of “we’re doomed, we’ve already lost”, and I sure don’t need that right now.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ken: @jonas: Isn’t he just taking them at their word? They say they are a religious organization and they jumped through the procedural hoops to put up a display.
NotMax
Fair warning: appetite suppressant ahead.
Words almost fail me.
sab
@WaterGirl: For those of old enough to remember before Roe v Wade, we are back to the “good old days.” When I was handing out out sample ballots before the Issue 1 election in Ohio I had old white women who looked like MAGA types coming up to me absolutely outraged about the Dobbs decision. They knew what was coming because they had seen it before.
schrodingers_cat
@Soprano2: The almost gloating tone of how they (doomers) have seen the light and know what is coming while the rest of us are idiots is what gets me.
Soprano2
@schrodingers_cat: They are certain that TFG has already won, Democrats never tell anyone anything good they’ve done, and we’ve already lost all the battles so we’d better get ready for fascist government. ETA – and it’s all Joe Biden’s fault because he was supposed to be perfect and able to do things that are not possible. I think in some ways they want a Democratic TFG, who will break all the rules and do anything he/she wants in service of forcing things into place.
lowtechcyclist
@Soprano2:
Since I see Omnes in the thread, I’d ask: doesn’t this contravene the Full Faith and Credit clause of Article IV of the Constitution? If an activity A is legal in state X, isn’t it unconstitutional for state Y to charge anyone for doing A in state X?
Omnes Omnibus
@Soprano2: There was a person who suggested a few days ago that the low number of comments on Adam’s threads was a sign of waning interest in Ukraine’s plight. I, at the time, suggested that many people probably read the threads but did not feel qualified to to say much about the material. I stand by that, but I also think that the atmosphere of those threads causes many to scroll on by.
sab
@schrodingers_cat: According to a local paper, her water broke. She went to the bathroom and miscarried into the toilet, flushed it then went to the hospital for follow-up care. A nurse at the hospital snitched and called the police, who raided her house and tore out the plumbing, retrieved the fetus, and the rest followed. So much for medical privacy.
So a typical miscarriage until the crazy people got involved. Pretty much Kay has predicted.
I suppose women in Warren, Ohio now know that they dare not risk followup medical care after a miscarriage.
WendyBinFL
@Kay: What a nightmare! I lost my much-longed-for first pregnancy at 16 weeks. I started bleeding and cramping and lost… something, which I saved (God help me) and turned over to my ob/gyn. He said it was a “blighted ovum” that would never have developed into a healthy child. To think I could have been prosecuted! And of course, I was beyond the “compromise” 15-week limit. Grrr! (And then my dear mother-in-law wanted to know if it was a boy or a girl! AAAAARRGH!) After a second miscarriage — which got flushed — we adopted our daughter, and then I got pregnant and had our son, so… happy ending.
schrodingers_cat
@sab: Was the nurse a bible thumping Republican voting fundie?How is this not a violation of doctor-patient privacy?
sab
@Omnes Omnibus: I know you don’t use the pie filter. I do, and Adam’s threads lately are a dessert cart to me. I see the handful of thoughtful comments every night by the usual commenters who make the effort to be informed in their comments, and the trolls and troll feeders just go by as pastry pictures.
Frankensteinbeck
@Omnes Omnibus:
I stopped reading them for this reason.
Omnes Omnibus
@lowtechcyclist: Short answer: Generally so, but it can get complicated. Also, the law may be unconstitutional, but it’s on the books right now. People can get prosecuted under it and later have the law overturned. Their lives are still fucked up by it. Unfortunately, I have to head out for a busy day in a few minutes so I can’t really add more.
Quiltingfool
Me neither. You have enough stress and worry in your life, don’t need more.
We don’t know the future. Knowing what we can do, and doing it is the best we can do.
Right now I’m blind with rage at what women are being forced to suffer at the hands of the state. I live in a county where all the elected offices are held by Republicans, and I know some of them. They aren’t evil, but they CHOOSE to belong to a political party that revels in cruelty. So, they are choosing evil.
I will never vote for a Republican. Ever.
There go two miscreants
@Omnes Omnibus: Yep, I’m in that category. Rely on Adam’s posts for news about Ukraine but I find the comments unhelpful so I skip them.
catclub
And many of the people who say “all things come of thee, O Lord”
are fine with that, since for them, nothing belongs to Ceasar, and all to God.
sab
@schrodingers_cat: I agree. But there are exceptions for reporting law violations. That is how we protect abused children. So a fundie nurse with a cooperative prosecuting attorney can cause a lot of trouble.
We have a school nurse like that on our school board. She is active in Right to Life, but gets away with it because she is a school nurse.
jonas
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes, but he seems to assume that they actually worship Satan and desire to harm people through witchcraft or the Dark Arts or something. In reality, they’re basically secular humanists who use this pagan imagery to make a point about free speech and freedom of (indeed, from) religion in public spaces.
eclare
@Frankensteinbeck:
I don’t read Adam’s posts or comments. Seems like every time I reconsider there is something from Adam about how people shouldn’t be mean in the comments. And I move on.
Raoul Paste
@Omnes Omnibus: I think your assessment of Adam’s threads is correct
WaterGirl
@Kay: That’s good. This is horrifying.
sdhays
@NotMax: I think that’s more sacrilegious than the Satanic Temple’s tasteful display in the Iowa State Capitol, but somehow I don’t think right wing evangelicals will be offended.
lowtechcyclist
@Omnes Omnibus:
Life is like that! Thanks for the short version.
All too true, sadly.
zhena gogolia
@Omnes Omnibus: I used to read the info in the posts and at least visit the threads. But all the Biden-bashing has turned me away.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
What happened to not worshipping graven images? Good Christians shouldn’t concern themselves with such mundane things as statues.
Eyeroller
@Frankensteinbeck:
Same. Attacking the Biden administration every night doesn’t change the situation. Doomerism isn’t helpful either.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, … TheHill.com:
Good, good.
Cheers,
Scott.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Eyeroller: I see it more as drill sargeant than doom vibes. He wants to light a fire under people, but I don’t think people are generally responsive to that method in such a casual environment.
Eyeroller
@WendyBinFL: They probably explained this to you, but a “blighted ovum” is a fertilized egg that dies before it even earns the label of “embryo,” or else dies very early and is reabsorbed, so there’s nothing in the gestational sac. This seems to be a pretty common cause of miscarriage. It at least gets started with development, however. Ever-earlier detection of pregnancy revealed a surprisingly high rate of fertilized eggs that never implant or implant but then die before even reaching “blighted” status. Really, God is the biggest abortionist of all.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Translated to wingnut, all women are murderers.
Anyway
@sab:
Can’t remember all the details now but a woman was prosecuted and convicted in Indiana for feticide after she took drugs to end her pregnancy and had to go to the emergency room. They used the same line- “obligated to report cases of suspected child abuse” and brought in the DA and cops. This was an Indian-American woman, Purvi Patel, and it made news at the time due to the charge of feticide. This was in the pre-Dobbs day – 2013 maybe? It struck me then that non-white women are charged more harshly in these cases.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I have been through basic training (fwiw Adam has not) and that’s not how it works.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Omnes Omnibus: Noted. Still, he wants us on a war footing.
lowtechcyclist
@Eyeroller:
Do you have a link? I was under the impression that there was really no way to detect a fertilized egg before implantation.
zhena gogolia
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I want us on a war footing too. The war for us right now is electing as many Democrats as we can, starting with Biden-Harris. We are not in normal times. We have to put out only positivity regarding our Democratic candidates. This is our last chance.
Paul in KY
@Kay: It is a complete travesty how they are treating this poor woman. The ‘law’ is definitely an Ass here! I hope your hope comes out true here. Am praying for it.
WendyBinFL
@Eyeroller: Thanks, Eyeroller. Yes, my sainted ob/gyn was careful to explain that, and went on to say that the medical term was sexist — it could just as easily have been a blighted sperm!
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@zhena gogolia: Sounds like we on the same page.
Tazj
@Kay: I was shocked when I saw what that judge said. “There are better scholars than I. “ And apparently you’re choosing to ignore the people who know better than you. Why is he speaking about viability when doctors said her pregnancy was non viable before the miscarriage ?
Soprano2
@Omnes Omnibus: It definitely makes me want to turn away. I have enough bad crap in my life right now without having to read that we almost have a fascist government already and the U.S. will completely abandon Ukraine, which means Putin will take over Europe. I’m exaggerating a little bit, but really not much. I try to be a realist, not an “everything is already lost” doomer.
RaflW
@Soprano2: This sort of wild over reach, made even more visible by the Texas case blaring now, is why I do think the GOP is in much worse shape heading into Nov. 2024 than the conventional wisdom/pundit/early poll stuff suggests.
It is incumbent on Dems to run affirmatively on access to reproductive care and abortion. It is working so far, and we can dispense with the lousy past “safe, legal and rare” caving in to the christianists. Because it turns out, problem pregnancies aren’t rare. (And, to be clear, there doesn’t even need to be a problem for abortion to be available to women).
EireIAm (formerly Fled the US)
@lowtechcyclist: Pregnancy tests detect the hormone human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG). It’s made by the embryo. It shows up in the blood and urine around a week after fertilization. Implantation happens between 1 and 2 weeks after fertilization.
So, yes, we can likely detect the presence of a fertilized egg before it’s been implanted. But (last I checked) the medical definition of pregnancy requires implantation. There are a lot of “chemical” pregnancies that never get past the very early stage, though. Whether or not those are embryos that failed to implant or embryos that implanted and then the pregnancy failed we can’t know with current technology (again, as I understand it).
OzarkHillbilly
@Tazj: He will happily mansplain it to you.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
I believe this too. Polls aren’t carching everything. Youth participation has been relatively high. I don’t even worry about complacency like I may have before. “Run up the score” seems like a worthy goal for November.
Miss Bianca
@Kay: Yeah, I’ve seen this coming too. For YEARS.
I’ll spare the jackaltariat another rant on the subject.
Soprano2
@lowtechcyclist: Here’s an article about the proposed law. It doesn’t say whether or not it would apply to someone who traveled out of state, or only to women who obtain an abortion in MO. I see Mike Moon was mentioned, and he’s definitely one who doesn’t think that deeply about things like this.
Quiltingfool
If you’re really into reading about doom and gloom vis a vis Biden, saunter over to the No More Mister Nice Guy blog. Whoo. He is convinced Biden will lose and hammers on it constantly. Funny thing, though, he never has anything about abortion….
I skim through his column and read the comments; most commenters push back.
Soprano2
@zhena gogolia: There can certainly be grounds for criticizing Biden and Democrats in their approach to Ukraine, but passing legislation that was basically impossible to pass in December 2022 isn’t one of them. That’s what gets me, the wishcasting that they should have done something that they probably wanted to do but was made impossible by Manchin, Sinema, and the filibuster. I think Biden got as much as he could get, but they still criticize because it wasn’t enough.
Quiltingfool
@Soprano2: That Mike Moon is a piece of work. He really needs to go away, but I expect he will be in politics a long time. He doesn’t seem to be able to ascend any higher politically, though. Wonder why, heh.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Soprano2: There’s always more to do. Keep going.
Eyeroller
@EireIAm (formerly Fled the US): So just barely at implantation. I was thinking it was a little earlier but not really. Also “implantation” has a medical definition that may not be quite what a developmental biologist would use.
Geminid
Senator Tom Cotton has endorsed Kari Lake for Arizona Senator. Not sure why an Army guy like Cotton would go out of his way to help a Marine like Ruben Gallego but speaking as a Democrat, I’ll take it!
The flaky Lake is a weak candidate. She is already well known in the state, and polling shows she’s way under water in likeability.
Miss Bianca
@Another Scott: Oh, so *now* SCOTUS is being circumspect about picking up abortion cases?
Yay! Or should I say, “yay-ish”?
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Kay: It gets even worse when you learn that she was going to miscarry no matter what. She went to the ER twice in the days prior to the actual miscarriage, they basically told her she was probably going to miscarry and sent her home. The corenor said after the autopsy that the fetus died in the womb and noted the woman had visited the ER twice in the days before the event.
“Forensic pathologist Dr. George Sterbenz testified an autopsy found no injury to the fetus, and that the unborn fetus had died before passing through the birth canal. He said Watts’ medical records showed she visited the hospital twice before the delivery.
“This fetus was going to be non-viable. It was going to be non-viable because she had premature ruptured membranes — her water had broken early — and the fetus was too young to be delivered,” Sterbenz said.
Chief Oshkosh
@Betty:
I don’t know. Dunwell said that government is not a good arbiter of religion. THAT is very much what Mike Johnson says, too. What I want to hear is “religion is a poor arbiter of government.”
Eyeroller
@WendyBinFL: Maybe “blighted zygote” would be better. Or just get rid of the expression entirely. The more correct term seems to be “anembryonic pregnancy.”
However, one thing that an ovum is capable of doing that a sperm cannot do, is start to divide on its own without actually being fertilized. Needless to say, at least in most vertebrates those zygotes don’t get very far. Occasionally such freaks of nature turn cancerous. Properly fertilized eggs can also go badly awry and turn into a tumor (usually benign but sometimes malignant).
Soprano2
@Quiltingfool: Plus, you know that if they do manage to pass the law to prosecute women who have abortions for homicide it will be used selectively. They will NEVER prosecute a nice white woman for doing it, but it will be used against women of color a lot. Plus, how can they tell whether you got an abortion or had a miscarriage? It’s a nightmare law to try to enforce
I think Mike Moon is probably clinically insane in some ways, but down here the MAGA’s love him. He could never get elected statewide, because he’s batshit crazy.
Kristine
@Frankensteinbeck:
I’m at that point.
EireIAm (formerly Fled the US)
@Eyeroller: yeah, as I remember it (and it’s been decades since i was a paid biologist) HCG is the bit that gets the whole pregnancy rolling in terms of the woman’s body – maintaining the corpus luteum is the big part of that, but there may be stuff that happens to affect the uterus.
There are no hard lines in biology, it’s all a spectrum. But, yeah, we can detect fertilized eggs really early in the process and something like 20 or 30% do not go on to be viable pregnancies.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Soprano2: They know they can not get her on abortion/homicide grounds because the coroner’s report and her medical records contradict that. so they are trying to convict her of improper disposal of remains or something…as someone who has had multiple miscarriages they can fuck right off…
Frankensteinbeck
@Soprano2:
I guarantee you they will. Actively and viciously. Yes, they’ll be a lot more aggressive with minorities, but the evangelicals want to punish all women for having sex, not just minority women.
Gin & Tonic
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
Indeed.
I’ll mention something about time scales, that I think I’ve mentioned before. My paternal grandfather’s efforts toward a free and independent Ukraine got him sent to the Gulag in 1939; he never returned. His wife and daughters were exiled to Kazakhstan, from which they eventually did return. The daughters then had families, and life went on. A couple of years ago his great-grandson became a member of the Verkhovna Rada (the unicameral legislature) in free and independent Ukraine. Took 80-odd years, but my grandfather’s efforts came to fruition – even when ostensibly smart people were convinced the USSR would last for centuries.
One foot in front of the other. The Ukrainians are not going to give up. Neither should Americans.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Omnes Omnibus: [Adam’s Ukraine threads] I don’t read every day. Most days I read and skim the comments. Like many others I have little to contribute.
lowtechcyclist
@Chief Oshkosh:
No, I think he has it right. As long as government stays out of the arbiting-of-religion business, we’re each doing our own arbiting of government, with whatever religious beliefs, ethical sense, or random thoughts we bring to that activity.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Soprano2: They want us to become Romania under Ceausescu. They want to be able to track your period if you are of child bearing age and if you are pregnant at one inspection and not at the next they want to know what happened. DO these idiots know how many pregnancies end in miscarriage/blighted ovum/failed implantation ?? Hello Republic of Gilead…
They are already trying to make sure women in abortion banning states can not travel to get an abortion and can not order medication abortion meds through a prescription from a licensed physician in another state.
Soprano2
@Frankensteinbeck: Well, I’m basing that on how they use these kind of laws now, but you may be right.
Kathleen
@Scout211: Thank you for the link. I donated and posted on X.
WaterGirl
@Miss Bianca:
I think it’s fair to say that the 6 Supreme Court Justices have no scruples, no honor, no respect for the law.
But I’m pretty sure they know a steaming pile of shit when they see one, and they know they are already skating on thin ice because of all the blatant corruption.
That’s why I think they won’t touch the Trump case and why they aren’t going to do anything to at this point to step AGAIN into the pile of shit they DUMPED with the Dobbs ruling.
Gretchen
@Anyway: That Indiana woman was trying to commit suicide and took poison to that end. It didn’t work, and they prosecuted her for harming the fetus rather than helping her for attempting to harm herself. Fetus more important than woman there.
zhena gogolia
I did get a bit depressed this morning — I pay no attention to Time’s person of the year, but yesterday some friends in another country asked me (incredulously) about Taylor Swift.
They didn’t make this explicit, but suddenly this morning I remembered who the person of the year was last year. Thinking of that did get me down.
Kathleen
@zhena gogolia: I’m with you.
Gretchen
@Tazj: Exactly. The coroner explicitly told him just before he said this that the fetus had died before it came out of the birth canal, but he still wanted to believe that it could have been viable. And none of these people say what she should have done with the remains. If there was some procedure she would/should have been told when she was at the hospital asking for help. What would have been the right thing for her to do with it? That’s been an issue with these women who want an abortion for a nonviable baby an have to carry it to term. Then they have to pay all the funeral expenses for a full-term baby, and many of those people don’t have an extra few thousand laying around to pay for a funeral.
Jinchi
I know kicking the youth is a favorite sport in an election year, but how is “upping their participation” in the primaries supposed to work in the 2024 presidential race?
tam1MI
We may not see eye to eye on other subjects, bit I am 100% in agreement with you here!
Anybody who didn’t see this coming wasn’t paying attention.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
My religion tells me that this woman behaved properly and te ding to her suffering is paramount right now.
Kathleen
@Miss Bianca: “Yay Near”?
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Jinchi: I don’t think that commenter had the 24 Presidential race foremost in their mind. To the extent that the youth do participate in the Presidential primary, I expect a strong showing for Joe Biden.
Layer8Problem
@RaflW:, @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
Absolutely. There’s realism and fighting smart, and there’s “We’ve already lost and there’s nothing left but to pack our bags or order the soon-to-be-mandated brown shirts and Sam Browne belts so the smart set says GIVE UP”. Fuck option two.
Jinchi
@zhena gogolia: Every year the media spend weeks arguing about Time’s “Person of the Year” and for the remaining weeks nothing they write has any impact whatsoever.
tam1MI
There are other offices beside that of President that need to be filled.
mrmoshpotato
🎂🥳🥳🥳
Geminid
@Soprano2: Biden was able to get $60 billion for arming Ukraine put into the Omnibus bill that passed right before last Christmas. The problem now is Biden hasn’t yet gotten $40 billion more. It’s possible that he won’t, but the confident assumption he won’t is not warranted in this case.
A more likely outcome will be like the Debt Ceiling crisis: weeks of angst, sweat and tears punctuated suddenly by a deal. And as with the Debt Ceiling resolution, people will still be mad at President Biden because he didn’t get the job done the way they would have.
That said, I really respect and appreciate Silverman’s Ukraine posts. It’s true they’ve been very dark and tense lately, but they have always had a lot of darkness and tension because of the nature of that war. I may disagree with some of his conclusions regarding politics, but these a mostly questions of prediction that I see no point in arguing.
Fortunately, the Kyiv Post, Kyiv independent and other good sources are freely available for people who find the Ukraine threads stressful but still want to keep up with the war.
Gretchen
@Jinchi: I’m afraid I have to disagree. There is so much sad, depressing stuff going on now, that we in Kansas City are enjoying the romance between Taylor Swift and our football player, Travis Kelce. Her tour generated enough economic activity to affect the GDP, mothers and daughters bonded over it, and art by a woman for women was celebrated. Bonus, it made the wingnuts furious. And it’s much better than when it was Trump in 2016.
Layer8Problem
@Jinchi:
I’m told Time used to be a thing back in the day. Viz. Life, Look.
Ruviana
@Scout211: Just donated. Almost at $33,000 now!
mrmoshpotato
@Suzanne: Hahaha! Yes please!
p.a.
I agree with “run up the score just in case”, so I’m not being an alarmist, but here’s this week’s rumble of thunder in the distance (from The Hill):
“Younger voters may be less likely to vote in 2024, despite their previous record, according to a poll released Tuesday by Harvard University’s Institute of Politics (IOP).
Of respondents aged 18-29 who said they voted in the 2020 election, only 49 percent said they “definitely” will be voting in the next presidential election; 17 percent said they will “probably” vote in the 2024 election.”
Joe’s just warming up the reelection ‘Vette right now so things will look better.
Anyway
@Gretchen:
I had not seen that in reports on the Indiana case (that it was a suicide attempt). Interesting.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@p.a.: Doubt persists despite strong election results for Democrats. Media’s gonna media.
Stacy
@Frankensteinbeck:
@Frankensteinbeck: I think they want to punish women for being women, for merely existing in a female body. Alito used that 17th century judge’s reasoning, who put two women to death for being witches, to justify overturning Roe. Kinda says it all about what the GOP think about women’s humanity.
Spanky
@Omnes Omnibus: I agree with both your points, as when I occasionally go into the comments I’m put off by a lot of them. Sometimes Adam’s.
Soprano2
@Gretchen: Plus imagine having to pay for a live birth for a baby that you know is going to die. That costs thousands of dollars in most places.
Soprano2
@Jinchi: There are primaries for offices other than president. I think that’s what they’re talking about.
pat
@EmbraceYourInnerCrone:
In other words, maybe she should have had an abortion right then. “Oh, just go home and wait and we’ll see what happens next.”
This is just unbelievable. I just donated to the Go Fund Me.
sab
@Gretchen: I am glad that Taylor Swift’s newest cat is a normal cat. The older two are Scottish folds (with the cute little folded ears.) Carefully bred Scottish folds are lovely little guys, but inbred Scottish folds are a genetic disaster with short painful lives.
I worry that kitty mills will start cranking them out when every little girl in America (and elsewhere in the world) decides she wants one.
sab
@Soprano2: And sitting around waiting and watching it die. One of my college roommates had to do that with her firstborn.
kalakal
@Omnes Omnibus: I would be in that category. With honourable exceptions I find the commentary far too defeatist.
@Soprano2: my take on it too
@schrodingers_cat:
exactly, the “we’re steely eyed realists, you’re blinded by sentiment” , ironically they are as emotion driven as those they criticise
Even Bismarck never thought that RealPolitik depended on wholly rational calculation, he was far too smart for that
I find Adam’s posts invaluable, the commentary less so
Elizabelle
If I was in Iowa, I would be down there taking multiple selfies with the Satanic display. The goat mask and velvet. Props for style there! Needs a colander on the head, too, to make its point clearer. Maybe a little pasta in the mix, stitched on to the cloak. Artfully.
I think it’s interesting that Rep Dunlop did not want to give the Satanists any credit for supporting the separation of church and state. He obfuscated, instead.
There go two miscreants
Heretic!!!
StringOnAStick
@Quiltingfool: The No More Mister Niceguy blog has always been doomertown, also during the Obama era too. He’s one of those guys for whom the D’s are always a huge disappointment, doing it wrong, selling us out to the fat cats but just at a slower rate, etc. I haven’t bothered to read him (and it’s definitely a guy) in years; all heat and no light.
frosty
Yes, a molar pregnancy. What fun it is to have to go through chemotherapy when all you wanted to do was start a family.
cain
@RandomMonster: I much prefer the Arabic version ‘Shaitan’! I think it’s because it was used in the long running, completed “Wheel of Time” series. :D Do not invoke the dark one’s name!
cain
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
He’s a fucking man, he doesn’t know shit about anything regarding pregnancy or viability other than when his dick gets involved. So sick of these people.
cain
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
He’s a fucking man, he doesn’t know shit about anything regarding pregnancy or viability other than when his dick gets involved. So sick of these people.
Elizabelle
Keeping Brittany Watts in my thoughts. What a travesty.
I hope eventually she will benefit from a successul lawsuit against her persecutors. In the meantime, getting this story out is valuable, so thank you Kay, and substacker Jessica Valenti, and all the good journalists and bloggers and activists for persevering.
cain
@lowtechcyclist:
A lot of churches run like a business – so you can imagine that they will want to be the official state version and there are many variations – it will turn into a internecine war between Christian faith. Whatever hate they have for liberals – it won’t compare to what the fuck will happen between denominations.
kalakal
@Layer8Problem:
Exactly.
Right now if I was a Dem senior strategist looking at the next election I’d be feeling a damn site happier than my GQP counterparts.
cain
@sab: She was in trouble regardless – even if she had brought the fetus and someone snitched they would have gone after her.
The prosecutors are looking to make an example of any woman who would misconceive. I’m not sure what charges they can actually bring to this woman. The damn thing was dead before it even hit the toilet.
cain
@Another Scott: I think the right wingers in the SCOTUS realize that they are further weaponizing abortion to the point that just about everyone is going to get really pissed off at the anti-abortion movement and consequently that’s going to drive votes against the republican party.
Gretchen
@Soprano2: yes. And hospital bills for the NICU if the baby lives for a few minutes. Dr Jen Gunter wrote about the pain of fighting over hospital bills for her preemie who lived for a few minutes
cain
@Frankensteinbeck:
We’ve hit a new phase – it’s punishing women for not delivering a baby.
cain
@Elizabelle:
There needs to be another million women march to protest against this – every woman is in danger of being charged in a red state if anything happens during a pregnancy. That’s where we are headed.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Dorothy A. Winsor: she was 20/22 weeks, with ruptured membranes which she went to the ER about twice. They sent her home, pretty much knowing she would miscarry. Knowing full well that she should have been offered a D and C in an OR, which would have cleared out her uterus of the dead fetus and also the placenta, which can cause massive, fatal hemorrhage if it only partial detaches from the uterine wall. A dead fetus that does NOT miscarry can also lead to sepsis and death. I assume the ER did not give her the option of a D and C for her dead/doomed fetus because that’s basically an abortion and they don’t what to do that. Or depending on what hospital group it belongs to, the hospital might be owned by the Catholic church.
Elizabelle
@cain: Maybe we will see a few of those marches next year.
Always ready to wear the pink hat again. Good organizing technique to inspire voters, too.
Matt McIrvin
@Geminid: If I were doing a day by day chronicle of the Ukraine war I’m sure it would make me feel the same way.