It seems like the third anniversary of the MAGA insurrection at the Capitol got more attention this year than in 2022 and 2023. Maybe because it’s an election year? I’m not sure, but I think it’s a good thing.
As Josh Marshall observed today at TPM, 1/6/2021 is as relevant as ever because the coup attempt “remains at the center of our politics.” That’s because in fact it is still ongoing, as Adam occasionally reminds us. It didn’t have to be this way, but this is the reality:
We can imagine an alternative timeline in which our version of January 6th happened but Trump and his supporters were thoroughly discredited by their attempt to overthrow the government of the United States. Trump discredited. Perhaps he is under arrest. The Republican party is forced to reckon with the national betrayal it embraced and led. A new Republican leadership would slowly begin to emerge.
Needless to say this is not what happened. Rather than repudiate the attempted coup – which seemed barely possible until some point on January 8th – the party embraced it, validated it, pursued a consistent policy of protecting the reputation and freedom of those who carried it out. It is true enough that a bare majority of elected Republicans won’t explicitly excuse the behavior of the individual insurrectionists who committed discrete crimes of assault, vandalism and trespass on January 6th. But shock troops are always expendable. The coup attempt itself – the criminal effort to remain in power after clearly losing a free and fair election – the institutional Republican party has defended on every front. The vanishingly small number of elected Republicans who denounced this crime are easily identified by the fact that they have all been driven out of the party.
Just today on Face the Nation, Speaker Mike Johnson refused to say Biden won the 2020 election fair and square and defended Trump’s “poisoning the blood” rhetoric. On Meet the Press, MAGA try-hard Elise Stefanik (R-NY) tap-danced to the same tune as Johnson on the 2020 election outcome (constitutional violations!) and refused to commit to certifying the 2024 election results.
So yeah, it’s January 7, 2024 but it’s still January 6, 2021. We’ll have to keep reliving that damned day until the coup leaders are held accountable and their apologists are discredited and/or bounced out of office. Maybe this election year will be a turning point. When the former liar in chief collects his party’s nomination, he’ll be shouting in our faces like an airhorn again. That will suck, but it might be clarifying too.
Open thread.
Alison Rose
I hate Republicans.
Baud
We’ve got the Veep and the Insurrection Act authority this time.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Sadly, I don’t think we’ll live to see that day. Doesn’t mean we don’t keep fighting tooth and nail for it…
Alison Rose
Okay, it’s an OT and I got a chuckle out of this so I’m gonna share it: I saw a tweet from Heather Cox Richardson and noticed that after her name, it said “(TDPR)” and I was trying to figure out what that stood for. Not her Substack name, not any kind of academic title, nothing I could think of. I tried Googling the acronym but none of the options seemed to apply to her in any way. So I went to her Facebook page and searched it and it turns out it stands for The Dread Pirate Richardson. LOLZ.
TaMara
Just some peaceful tourists:
lowtechcyclist
I’m done with that logic. I thought 2016 would be clarifying, after Trump gave the GOP permission to be open and public with its prejudices and hatreds. So at this point I don’t give a damn whether it’s clarifying or not; what they are is crystal clear already, unless one is invested in not seeing it.
This time, we need to save the Republic, full stop.
TaMara
I also suspect Boebert’s congressional career is not just toast, it’s burnt toast
Boebert Punches Ex
That link seems to be paywalled for some. Here’s a quote:
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@TaMara:
It was toast the instant she decided to carpetbag into the godforsakeneasternplainsofcolorado for what somebody must have told her would be an “easy” seat.
It’s a very insular environment and they’ve got plenty of their own home-grown nutjobs to choose from. They won’t go with an outsider.
Baud
@TaMara:
When you make MTG facepalm…
Alison Rose
@TaMara: Paywalled — here’s the archive link.
Peke Daddy
@Baud: There are always orcs in the authoritarian personality stand. We’ll see how they like a whiff of grapeshot.
Jackie
@TaMara: Needs a subscription to read😞
TaMara
@Alison Rose: Oh, thanks!…I got the 1 free article when I clicked over, so I thought it would be okay.
TaMara
@Jackie: Here’s the important part:
Miss Bianca
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
@TaMara:
Well, maybe now that Doug Lamborn has announced *he* won’t be running in CD-5, she’ll be thinking about taking her chances there!//
(Seriously, *all* of CO’s Republican-held Congressional Districts up for grabs this year?! Who’da thunk? Don’t tell me Lamborn is on the “RINO liberal squish” hitlist as well! )
Jackie
@Alison Rose: Thank you! And it appears to be much ado about nothing. Gossip fodder.
hrprogressive
It must be said repeatedly until enough people Get It:
The only problem the Republican Party has with January 6th is that it was unsuccessful.
Had the Trump Cult succeeded, every single (R) would be just fine being in the Dictator’s Party.
There is no “both sidesing” that brutal truth, no matter how many contrarians or “real leftists” would like that to be true.
Jackie
As for J6, once TIFG AND his MAGA congressional enablers are found guilty/kicked out of office, etc, we can’t let J6 become buried. If/when TIFG is AGAIN defeated, what happens after the election will say a lot.
TaMara
@Miss Bianca: I guess Lamborn got on the wrong side of Dave Williams the head of the CO GOP. They really are just crumbling from the inside out.
That was a gimmie seat w/o spending any money (and they have no money) and now it’s going to be a mess – it’ll still be an easy Repub seat, but not without some embarrassment, I’m sure.
TaMara
@Jackie: She punched him in front of witnesses at a restaurant. It’s a pattern of behavior for her and hopefully will make her untouchable in politics AND the GOP media gravy train. Anything that gets her out of the public eye will be welcome.
Eolirin
@TaMara: If they really fuck up we could end up with a Roy Moore like situation for a cycle in at least one of those seats.
No way we keep it, but anything helps going into 2024. We really need a house majority just to prevent any fuckery around election certification.
bbleh
That will suck, but it might be clarifying too.
I don’t think it can hurt. He’s not gonna convince much anyone who’s not already a cultist, and the increasingly unhinged nature of the things he now says regularly may get some of the fence-sitters finally to throw in the towel and at least not vote for him, if not switch to Biden entirely.
BUT …
Depending on voters to “wake up” because of what’s shouting in their faces is a weak substitute for strategy: if they haven’t got it by now, the large majority of them ain’t gonna get it ever. And depending on “the media” to “tell the truth” is only marginally better: they’ve got their own incentives, and alienating the cultists isn’t among them. The principal responsibility is on Democratic politicians, because it’s their job. They’re the ones who need to make the case, over and over, to the voters. They’re the ones who need to badger and pressure the media, and to discipline themselves sufficiently that a coherent message gets through. They’re the ones who have to make clear both the threat that TIFG and his
brown shirtsred hats pose and the fact that an election is a choice between real alternatives and not a Christmas list.And to his credit, Biden and the WH are doing exactly that, and evidence so far suggests it’s working. I’d like to hear more Senators and Reps and Governors shouting the same message, but it’s a long time yet ’til November.
Eolirin
@TaMara: Didn’t the Governor of Montana body slam a reporter during the campaign and then go on to win their election? Idk that punching a dude is in any way disqualifying to the GOP voter.
Though, granted, the Governor of Montana isn’t a woman, so that may be a factor in things.
Jeffro
I think Kay asked a great question in the last thread: why don’t they [the GOP powers-that-be] just rip the band-aid off and treat trump like any other loser?
Rationally, the GOP should have kicked trump to the curb like they do all their other losing candidates.
But…
Rationally, they should have kicked his losing ass to the curb loooooong ago. But for the reasons above, they can’t/won’t.
oldgold
Since the 1974 election, the GOP has not had to pay a steep political price for their treachery and/ or gross political malfeasance. In 1974, they paid the price for Watergate. Since then, for Iran-Contra, Bush v. Gore, Iraq War, Covid response and January 6, the GOP has for most part skated. I expect the same this year. For many reasons the Dems have had and continue to have a serious messaging problem.
I expect the Dems to lose the Senate and narrowly regain the House . As for the Presidency, I do not like our present position, but continue have some hope.
TaMara
@Eolirin: I’m really hoping CO3 goes for Frisch – if only because they are tired of GOP drama, Boebert or not.
We picked up the 8th because of the bizarre (and popular) punk rock guy running – I forget the backstory, but popular with the GOP voters. I could go for something like that in Ken Buck’s district. But that’s wishful thinking on my part.
@Eolirin: I think it’s just too much drama around her – if it was just punching him, they’d be fine with it, but it’s the constant bad behavior. Of course, since she supposedly always carries, if she had shot him, that might have improved her odds in that district. 😉
MattF
Boebert could get away with all this… who knows if she has avid fans in the uninhabitable regions of Colorado? We’ll find out, I guess.
Eolirin
@bbleh: It’s not just our politician’s jobs, it’s ours as well. Activists, the volunteer organizing base, and even just involved citizens are equal participants in a Democracy to elected officials.
We shouldn’t just be leaving it to party officials.
Eolirin
@Jeffro: Eh, I think the single biggest motivating factor is that their base would literally murder them if they tried.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@TaMara:
@Miss Bianca:
Where does Boebert’s leaving her current district leave the Dem that was going to challenge her. Are his chances still good?
Scout211
And the hits keep on coming.
It’s a long read full of information already known by the J6 Committee report but these Trump advisors’ statements are from the Special Counsel’s investigation.
. . .
. . .
. . .
Bold added.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, … one for the Property Brothers fans.
There’s a lesson there somewhere, I think. Maybe…
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Jamey
I hate to say it, but we’re fucked six ways from Sunday. All this slouching toward authoritarianism has actually gotten us there.
The movement that Trump came to embody existed before his ascendance, albeit in nascent form, and will be here long after Trump has dissolved into a misshapen wet spot on the carpet at Mar-a-Lago.
Even when one side acted to destroy the American Republic, too many others were willing to brook “both-sides’” approaches to accommodating insurrectionists and institutionalists. Biden‘s DOJ slow footed its investigations and prosecution out of fear they would be accused of partisanship. And guess what, suckers: there have been nonstop accusations of partisanship, which have gained amplification through a jaded retail media establishment that’s “just reporting the facts”—oftentimes months or years ex-post-facto, as they held back the reporting till they could make bank publishing tell-alls based on their shitty access journamalism.
I’m a big fan of President Biden, but I feel and his administration been far too timid prosecuting the crimes of January 6 or fortifying ramparts against fascism, like a concerted effort to expand SCOTUS. And it’s all going to come back to hit us in the face as people grow tired of the constant struggle to defend rights and freedoms that are increasingly irrelevant while Republicans successfully chip away at our laws, civil liberties, and the basic concept that there is such thing as “truth.”
Sorry to be such a downer.
Hoodie
@Jeffro: The GOP fears letting him go because they’re not really unified, and they’re not unified because they ultimately are a collection of zealots who do not believe in compromise and grifters who only want attention. They can’t even manage a working majority in the House, let alone pass historic legislation like Pelosi did with similar margins. Trump was their savior in 2016 because they couldn’t coalesce around any of their other candidates. He wasn’t even a Republican.
Alison Rose
@Another Scott: LOL I wonder if Property Brother Jonathan is gonna have to do a bunch of “no that’s not me” posts like that dude Matt Gertz always has to do when Matt Gaetz is in the trending topics.
Jamey
I hate to say it, but we’re fucked six ways from Sunday. All this slouching toward authoritarianism has actually gotten us there.
The movement that Trump came to embody existed before his ascendance, albeit in nascent form, and will be here long after Trump has dissolved into a misshapen wet spot on the carpet at Mar-a-Lago.
Even when one side acted to destroy the American Republic, too many others were willing to brook “both-sides’” approaches to accommodating insurrectionists and institutionalists. Biden‘s DOJ slow footed its investigations and prosecution out of fear they would be accused of partisanship. And guess what, suckers: there have been nonstop accusations of partisanship, which have gained amplification through a jaded retail media establishment that’s “just reporting the facts”—oftentimes months or years ex-post-facto, as they held back the reporting till they could make bank publishing tell-alls based on their shitty access journamalism.
I’m a big fan of President Biden, but I feel he and his administration been far too timid prosecuting the crimes of January 6 or fortifying ramparts against fascism, like a concerted effort to expand SCOTUS. And it’s all going to come back to hit us in the face as people grow tired of the constant struggle to defend rights and freedoms that are increasingly irrelevant while Republicans successfully chip away at our laws, civil liberties, and the basic concept that there is such thing as “truth.”
Sorry to be such a downer.
Alison Rose
@Jamey:
Are you sorry? I don’t think you are.
bbleh
@Eolirin: oh yes, I regularly yell things like “vote, donate, volunteer, organize!” And those things are absolutely essential — more so now perhaps than ever, because there really are few or no more “swing voters,” only potential voters who don’t make it to the polls, which means GOTV, which requires said 4 things.
BUT framing and delivering a message, especially regarding the toxicity of TIFG and the MAGA SA, isn’t something that can be done at all efficiently or effectively by the grassroots. It’s a leadership function. The grassroots can support it, and do things to turn the message into votes, but otherwise it’s like one-on-one conversations, and I gotta tellya, ain’t too many people I talk to who don’t have an opinion one way or the other that they’re sticking to like glue.
Jamey
@Alison Rose: that’s your takeaway?
I’m more apologetic than sorry.
Jeffg166
Maybe we will get lucky and TFG will croak.
TaMara
@Alison Rose: 😁
Eolirin
@Jamey: Some historical perspective might be useful; we’ve been in worse places and come out of them before. Go look at how things were in the 30s, 40s and 50s. Or in the lead up to the Civil War.
It doesn’t mean we will win this time, that sort of determination can only be made in retrospect and we’re still in the middle of events, but we’ve won before and under worse circumstance.
That things are dire doesn’t mean they’re lost. We keep fighting.
JoyceH
@Alison Rose:
There’s a fellow on Twitter who posts as Liam Nissan. He’s leftist and funny. And the number of posters who think they’re actually posting back to Liam Neeson is astonishing.
Eolirin
@bbleh: If there aren’t that many people who don’t already have an opinion, the only real value of messaging is to remind people that they already know what they already know.
So yeah, there’s a value in beating the drum loudly and repeatedly because getting people to pay attention to and remember anything in our electorate is… well, much harder than I wish it was. But it’s also not going to accomplish that much without the support. We do need both, very desperately.
And there’s really solid proof that the only way you do change anyone’s mind is with solid, consistent, non-combative, one on one messaging from someone they view as a friend. So we can’t really be laying off that side of things either. It does actually make a difference if enough people work on enough of the people in their social circles individually. It’s a ton of emotional labor though.
Bill Arnold
Did this get any attention? The New York Times completely changed an obnoxious recent headline (well, retaining two words):
“Clashing Over Jan. 6, Trump and Biden Show Reality is at Stake in 2024
became
“Trump Signals an Election Year Full of Falsehoods on Jan. 6 and Democracy”
(Retaining the words “Trump” and “and”. )
Hoodie
@bbleh: I’d say it’s a pretty good sign that Biden’s kickoff speech was directly on the insurrection. I have little doubt it will be a major element of the campaign, if not the centerpiece since the economy is now being widely portrayed as awesome and doesn’t need at lot of explanation from the campaign. The main economic message might be “why would you want to put this at risk of an unstable maniac screwing it up?”
Alison Rose
@JoyceH: BRB making Twitter accounts for Meryl Sheep, Idris Elbow, and Pedro Pastel.
bbleh
@Jamey: I don’t think this is fair. It’s true that TIFG is at least as much symptom as cause — I think of him as a kind of catalyst — which means the authoritarianism and reactionism and general assholicness won’t go away when he does. And in part because of that, as noted, “the media” (apart from the overt propagandists) aren’t gonna be much help. (See also Perlstein, Rick, on both topics.)
BUT of the 2,000 or so 1/6 rioters whom the FBI estimates committed criminal acts, DOJ have now charged 1,234, of whom 736 have pleaded guilty and 167 of 170 who went to trial have been found guilty of at least one offense, and investigations are continuing. Source.
And as to expanding the USSC, that would have required Congressional action (or, I suppose, amending the Constitution), and there’s no possible way it would ever have cleared the Senate.
bbleh
@Eolirin: well good on ya. Both personally and in volunteer work, rather than trying to change minds, I tend to focus on motivating people who are already leaning my way actually to vote (dammit!), and to get their friends to vote, because I think the bang-for-the-emotional-buck is much higher in the current environment, but YMMV.
hitchhiker
Some of you will remember that my twin grandkids were born just as the thugs were pushing their way into the Capitol.
Yesterday we were at the their birthday party, held at a lovely park with a new climbing toy setup just right for 3-yr-olds. The weather had been awful the night before, and became awful again later in the day, but for those few hours the sun was out and the kids were wild with happiness and sugar.
My little grandson spent most of his time with his favorite aunt, scooting up and down the dirt trails as fast as he could go. His sister chased giant bubbles around with a horde of bigger kids, in a state of delighted frenzy. Later, we popped them into the bath to warm up while their grandpas assembled a hotwheels track thing that was my present … and for the rest of the day, they played with that.
I’m disgusted to my soul with the Republican establishment; for me the day is always bound up together with gladness and determination to pound those sorry motherfuckers into electoral dust.
Generation Alpha isn’t an abstraction — it’s a pair of siblings whom I will probably not live long enough to see as adults. They’re not going to be subjects of a dictatorship if I can help it.
Eolirin
@bbleh: Oh no, that’s absolutely the right approach from an organizing and outcomes perspective. This is more of a people in their personal lives thing. I don’t think it’s a thing you can really do that great of a job on if you’re trying to do it at scale. And it’s a rough kind of labor that not everyone is suited for.
But I think it’s important to not dismiss it as valuable either.
We should use any means we have, everywhere we can, as best suited to our capacity and circumstances.
oldgold
@Jamey: “Biden‘s DOJ slow footed its investigations and prosecution out of fear they would be accused of partisanship.”
Oh no, another crazy bastard!
Betty Cracker
@lowtechcyclist: Since democracy requires consensus, to some extent, it depends on the slow learners catching up, unfortunately.
oldgold
@Jamey: “Biden‘s DOJ slow footed its investigations and prosecution out of fear they would be accused of partisanship.”
Oh no, another crazy bastard spreading lies!
Another Scott
Meanwhile, … ICYMI – RollCall.com (from 1/5):
I don’t think it necessarily means that Jeffries is going to get the gavel earlier than January 2025, but it will potentially slow things down more and make bypassing the Rules Committee (and thereby opening up the floor to 2/3 votes to passing stuff rather than depending on the GQP to unanimously agree) more frequent.
We’ll see.
Cheers,
Scott.
Mike in NC
Trying to imagine the Republican Party without Trump would be akin to imagining the German National Socialist Workers Party without Hitler. Unpossible!
Gravie
We held a little “Defend Democracy” January 6 rally yesterday in our smallish Central Oregon town, pop. 100,000. Mostly, we got a bunch of thumbs-ups and supportive honks and waves from passing cars, although there were a few hecklers. One young woman shrieked “It’s a republic!” out the window of her car as it sped by. One jackass rolled coal. Some dude in a patriotic sweatshirt (eagles, stars and stripes, some such) stood across the street chanting “Let’s go, Brandon” at the top of his lungs. I yelled back, “We’re laughing at you!” He left. All in all, a good day.
H.E.Wolf
What the doomers conveniently forget, as they parachute into comment threads, is that they themselves have the power to get off their butts and volunteer their time, labor, and/or money to get out the Democratic vote in time for election day.
I wonder why it doesn’t seem to occur to them that they have the option to help, instead of carp? … I’m fishing for an answer here. :)
suzanne
@TaMara:
Did she get kicked out of Golden Corral for that? FFS.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Mike in NC: The Republican Party long preceded Trump and has been paving the way for someone like him to become a dictator for decades.
Eolirin
@Another Scott: Yeah, we should get Santos’s seat, but I’d be shocked if we got any of the others. We’re not actually any closer to a majority (other than potentially Santos’s seat), they’re just temporarily down members.
Geminid
@H.E.Wolf: Complaints about others, but when it comes to their own efforts they are very koi.
H.E.Wolf
While I’m on the topic of helping to GOTV: PostcardsToVoters.org has addresses for NY Democrats for the Feb. 13 special election to replace George Santos. Info at their website for new and returning writers.
I’m headed back to the 5 postcards I have in progress. (Look at that huge number! PTV loves us slowpokes, too.)
Betty Cracker
@TaMara: Slugging that asshole is the only relatable thing Boebert has ever done. Of course, she’s as loathsome as he is…
H.E.Wolf
@Geminid:
Thank you and cod bless you! :-)
bbleh
@Geminid: or they’re just casting about randomly, instead of getting reel.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
If it doesn’t occur to them, we can always ask “what can you do?” This sort of helplessness comes about for a few reasons.
We’re obsessed with those at the top. That not only puts unrealistic expectations on them, but also creates impressions like voting being the extent of civic responsibility and political offices are either obscure in their role or appear unattainable.
There is less focus on community nowadays. People are isolated and may not even know where to begin to work to improve their community.
On top of that, we live in a media environment that is intent on exacerbating these problems
Jamey
That’s unnecessary. You should probably delete the comment.
I don’t expect you to agree with everything below, but at least we can agree you shouldn’t shit on the mentally ill by recklessly throwing around words like crazy.
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: I recently found that Lauren Boebert was born in Altamonte Springs, Florida. Also, that the band The Royal Guardsman were from Ocala. They’re the ones with the minor hits about Snoopy and the Red Baron.
Alison Rose
@Jamey:
I respect a desire to not seem ableist, but not all of us with mental illness considered terms like “crazy” when used colloquially to be so. I call myself crazy all the time, and considering the cornucopia of diagnoses I have, I think I’ve earned that right. And using words like “crazy” or “insane” in a slang way has nothing to do with their past medical usages. If you personally disagree and don’t like the use of those words, that’s fine, and I would never tell you that you’re wrong to feel that way. But others don’t share that sentiment. It has been a long time since any medical professional regularly used words like that in practice, so think of it like copyright law.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Jamey: Trump has been arrested. He’s going on trial. The cases look strong and at least some will resolve before the election.
TBone
@Betty Cracker: bwahahaha!
japa21
@oldgold:
Finally a statement I agree with.
oldgold
@Jamey: I was making fun of myself.
Yesterday, I commented:
“I am not so sure Garland is a to be saluted for his handling of this. It was not until November 18, 2022 that Jack Smith was appointed Special Counsel. At a minimum 12 months too late. Had Garland acted with due dispatch, we would not be racing the clock to save the Republic.”
To which WaterGirl replied:
”@oldgold: That is simply not true. If you mistakenly believe what you are saying, you are still spreading lies. Do some research on the facts, and then get back to us.”
Betty Cracker
@Geminid: Well, it figures she started out here. A friend informed me today that notorious Trump troll Catturd™️ is also a Floridian. We really do have more than our fair share of MAGA creeps.
Jamey
@H.E.Wolf: I did not just parachute in. I have been reading this blog for 12 to 15 years. I seldom comment or read the comment threads because, frankly, they’re kind of clubby.
For what it’s worth, it has occurred to me to get off my ass. I went door-to-door in Scranton, Pennsylvania in 2008, when I pushed for Obama/Biden. I did the same in New Jersey 3 to get Andy Kim elected to what was (in 2018) a very Trumpy district. I regularly get involved in phone bank and postcard campaigns for Democratic candidates and progressive causes.
I am involved and doing what I can to push back against lazy authoritarianism, and voter apathy. But I occasionally get disspirited, as I am now after seeing major media reporting on 1/6.
The regulars here are a tough crowd. But being called a “crazy bastard” by some random a****le, or condescended to by being asked “whether it occurred to me to help” doe does it to make this more than an echo chamber. I guess. I’ll just come here for the articles.
scav
It’s so heartwarming when the pastry has friends.
gene108
@TaMara:
Hope this video gets more traitors ID’d.
TaMara
@Betty Cracker: Just for you. :-D
Alison Rose
@TaMara: LOLLLLL
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: It’s a sad situation. We Virginians on the other hand pride our state on the many Presidents born here, 9 in all.*
We are also the only state that produces aircraft carriers. We still let other states help pay for them, though, since they cost $14 billion each.
* A trick question: Who were the 9 Presidents born in Virginia?
Betty Cracker
@oldgold: & @Jamey: FWIW, I think the jury is still out on how the DOJ handled the coup investigation at the top. Whether the investigation should have started sooner and what role politics played in the timing are legitimate questions in my view. I am also not thrilled with how tone-policey this place can be sometimes, though I understand why it is that way. You are both welcome to comment in my threads.
columbusqueen
@Betty Cracker: Or as the Liberal Redneck said, “Florida, the Fertile Crescent of crazy crackers.”
Betty Cracker
@columbusqueen: He’s not wrong! 🙃
@Geminid: I could only think of four, but Google says there were eight total!
@TaMara: Lord! 😂
Jamey
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Thanks. I share your hope, but cannot fully feel your optimism at the moment.
Geminid
@Jamey: Well, people do get piled onto here, which is what I was doing with my “koi” crack.
The question of the adequacy or inadequacy of the Biden administration’s- particularly Merrick Garland’s- response to the Insurrection has been a hot topic here, especially yesterday. My own attitude is somewhat different than those of Garland’s defenders and detractors. These cases interest me, but I don’t feel the urgency about them that others do. My belief all along has been that we’ll have still have to beat Trump this November 5, no matter how these various cases go. So that’s the fight that concerns me.
Jamey
@Betty Cracker: Noted. But for what it’s worth, my parents were legally married at the time of my conception and birth. so at least grant that “crazy bastard” is both factually and clinically inaccurate.
Jamey
@Geminid:
@Geminid: I wasn’t aware of the comment thread yesterday. I read BJ articles religiously, but, for reasons I’ve already shared, I tend to steer clear of the comment threads.
Maybe the regular BJ commentariat want to have a think on that for a minute.
But probably not.
zhena gogolia
@Jamey: What do you think a comment thread is for? For everyone to agree with each other?
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: There’s a trick answer. The standard count is 8: Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Munroe, Harrison, Tyler, Taylor and Wilson. But Sam Houston was the first President of the Republic of Texas.
There is a Sam Houston Wayside in the Shenandoah Valley, about 10 miles north of Lexington on Route 11. He was born nearby, but the house is long gone. The state of Texas provided a big chunk of pink granite, and there are bronze plaques from five entities including the Cherokee Nation. He went to live with the Cherokee after a tough divorce, and they kind of adopted him.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@zhena gogolia: I believe one rotating tag states “Balloon Juice has never been a home for the linguistically delicate.”
Jamey
i’m going to push back a bit, once again:
@Alison Rose: calling yourself crazy is one thing.
Calling a stranger you disagree with a “crazy bastard” is something entirely different.
TBone
@Jamey: I don’t belong to any club that would have me as a member.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Jamey: If it bothered you so much; ask oldgold, who originally made the comment, about Biden’s age. Then we’ll see how the crazedness accusation wheel turns.
Eta: Yeah, I know I’m instigating.
Geminid
@Jamey: Well, the regular Balloon Joice commentariat is a bunch of individuals, and we manage to fight with each other over a lot of things. But I get what you are saying about the comments. I know there are plenty of people who read articles and comments but don’t comment themselves. Some probably don’t like the arguing.
Jamey
@zhena gogolia: is it for name-calling when you don’t agree with people?
I made a valid point about the pace of DOJ investigations and prosecutions connected to January 6.
One person disagreed with me and cited statistics about the number of 1/6 participants brought to justice. I don’t have a problem with that.
Another person offered no proof, and dismissed me as a crazy bastard. My guess is that person felt empowered to do this, because it’s how things sometimes work around here.
I’m here bitching and moaning because I don’t believe that is how things should work, at least, not, if as many here claim, “we’re better than them.”
JaySinWA
@Miss Bianca: I checked, she’s already filed for the 4th and said no to running for the 5th after Lamborn announced he’s not running. But things may change.
zhena gogolia
@Jamey: Are you talking about oldgold? Because oldgold was agreeing with you and identifying with you, because he felt dissed about making a similar comment the other day. He was being ironic with the phrase “crazy bastard.”
Jamey
@zhena gogolia: I appreciate the explanation. Apologies to others that I didn’t figure this out sooner.
zhena gogolia
@Jamey: People should be more careful about marking their sarcasm.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@zhena gogolia: Sarcasm that requires marking is inept sarcasm.
zhena gogolia
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Well, you had to be reading all the threads to understand what oldgold was trying to say. I guess that’s inept.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@zhena gogolia: Right. The context of the sarcasm needs to be locally available; if not in the same comment, certainly on the same thread.
I read every article here and a significant amount of most comment threads and I had no idea either.
Scout211
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
You have a good point. I have often wondered why so many commenters here can’t read my mind accurately. Sigh.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Scout211: Great example, heavily sarcastic and I understood without any prompting. Thank you for adeptly illustrating my point.
ETA: Where the use of sarcasm obscures one’s intent, that person might consider a different rhetorical tool.
eclare
@zhena gogolia:
Yeah, that comment assumed that Jamey had read all of the comments to yesterday’s thread.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Jamey: welcome to Balloon Juice. In my experience it is a welcoming and friendly place, but perhaps I am just comfortable among a snarling mass of vitriolic jackals.
Jamey
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Except that Biden is, in fact, way too old.**
**(am I doing it right?)
Miss Bianca
@Geminid: I love The Royal Guardsmen! Lauren Boebert, not so much.
Are Altamonte Springs and Ocala next door to each other?
Miss Bianca
@Geminid: Are we counting ol’ Jeff Davis as one of the nine? (he was born in VA, right?)
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Jamey: You’ll find that as a point of agreement with the other party. I say if you’re young enough to vote, you’re young enough to be President.
oldgold
i am called out for calling someone “another crazy bastard,” with me being the other crazy bastard. Fine. I am sorry if I hurt Jamey’s feelings.
The funny part is that Jamey in registering her outrage at my language, saw fit to call me a “random asshole.” It made me laugh.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Jamey: too much white space
Scout211
You thought I was being sarcastic? Huh. You illustrated my point exactly.
LOL, yes I am being /s this time
zhena gogolia
@oldgold: That is pretty funny.
Jeffro
I did not know this…however, I would kind of like for us to stop, since they’re huge wastes of money.
As Ukraine is showing daily, the next (dozen) wars are going to be all about the drones.
Miss Bianca
@Jamey:
No, you didn’t. Unless you have some actual evidence to back up your assertions – or some actual expertise in the field of prosecuting complex federal cases – you in fact have no way to make a “valid point” about the pace of the DOJ investigations and prosecutions.
What you’re doing is venting because things aren’t moving as fast as you want them to. Which is fine, I guess, but that’s not making a “valid point”, that’s…just, like, your opinion, man.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Scout211: That raises another good point, readers will find meaning in words entirely independent of authors’ original intent.
Jamey
@oldgold: I figured by that time the gloves were off.
Funny you don’t dispute the claim.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Jamey: We all random assholes here, bruh.
Betty Cracker
@Miss Bianca: My favorite movie cross-ref meme:
Scout211
@Miss Bianca: TBH, there is a fine line here in the balloon-juice comment section between a “valid point” and a “valid opinion.” And there is often a lack of evidence to back up commenters opinions and points, valid or not.
We are an opinionated bunch here. And believe you me, all my opinions and points are valid.*
*that is indeed, /s
Gretchen
Stefanik thinks Trump will pick her because she supports him. She doesn’t realize that she’s going to have to bleach her hair and get lip plumpers to even register with him.
Miss Bianca
@Betty Cracker: LOL!! Good one!
Eolirin
@Scout211: Clearly they aren’t trying hard enough.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Betty Cracker: OMG I hadn’t seen that before. It’s perfect!
Eolirin
@Jeffro: Idk.
What would have happened to the Russian forces if Ukraine had had air superiority day one? Would drones have been enough to prevent that air superiority from being established if Ukraine had a fleet of modern fighter jets?
Also, how do we get the drones where we need them? We can retrofit a lot of those aircraft carriers to be mobile drone bases.
I’m not saying drones won’t be a huge part of warfare going forward, they clearly will, but I think the situation is a bit more complex than just “all drones all the time”.
Especially against forces like the ones the US or China has, instead of ones like the Russians have.
bbleh
@Gretchen: lol, he ain’t gonna pick nobody who has any serious brand or recognition of their own. One reason he picked Dense Pence was that pretty much nobody else was willing at the time, but another was that he had no presence and no future, so there was no way he could eclipse even a tiny fraction of TIFG’s Infinitely Strong (yet somehow fragile) Brilliance.
I would not be at all surprised if Stefanik already has several strikes against her in the Very Big Book Of Grievances, even if only for some occasional mouthiness at a time Himself would have considered inappropriate.
It’ll be another Alina Habba, or another Pence or some slobbering backbencher from some hopelessly gerrymandered backwater who can barely string a couple syllables together without tripping over his own feet.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I love my den of random assholes. Y’all are the best!
Geminid
@Jeffro: Drones played a big part in the second Armenian/Azerbaijani War in 2021, and helped the Azeris win back territory lost in 1992. Drones also helped Turkiye drive back the Wagner Group in Libya the year before. So they are definitely on the cutting edge of modern warfare. Last year Turkiye started sailing a combination drone/helicopter carrier, and they’ve announced plans to build three more.
Ukraine may be different from the next wars anyway. In any event, most countries are scrambling to catch up with drone technology and anti-drone technology too.
Energy weapons will likely be part of the latter category. An interesting aspect of the latest series of US destroyers and aircraft carriers is electrical generating capacity that far exceeds the needs of their current weapons systems. I think it’s for energy weapons as yet undeployed.
A lot of people would like us to stop building aircraft carriers, but not Senators Kaine and Warner and the rest of our Congressional delegation. Virginia’s economy benefits greatly from our role in the military-industrial complex, and our politicians intend to keep it that way. They would say to your suggestion, “Great idea! Let’s build more aircraft carriers and more drones.”
Uncle Cosmo
I disagree completely.
I think you’re about the sorriest piece of shit that’s ever posted here. Including “Boob in Putinland” and “BSMiasma.”
I will cordially invite you to fuck the hell off. And I know I’m not alone in this….
Jamey
@Miss Bianca: I cited Washington Post’s reporting as support for my point, which, yeah, is my opinion… as points of view tend to be.
if you believe I’m being overly credulous, please tell me why you feel WaPo got it wrong.
Jamey
@Uncle Cosmo: Gee, that sucks that you think I’m a piece of shit and people agree with you. You and those people should hang out more.
An apology is not the same as being sorry. I stand by what I said. I was agreeing with the commenter.
Jackie
Is Johnson gonna get kicked off the island? The MAGA House is going to be HOWLING!
Uncle Cosmo
@oldgold: If you want to see a crazy bastard, look in the mirror. Presuming you have a reflection.
jimmiraybob
I nominate James Comer of the great state of Confusion. Do I have a second?
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@bbleh: Back in the before-times, it was conventional wisdom that a VP pick should add “balance” to a ticket, and maybe bring in a constituency not already well-served by the top of the ticket.
Reagan had his Bush (foreign policy experience)
Bush had his Quayle (relative youth, evangelicals?)
Clinton had his Gore (unconventional pick without obvious balance)
W had his Cheney (DC insider, foreign policy experience)
Obama had his Biden (DC insider, foreign policy experience)
TFH had his Pence (evangelicals)
Biden has his Harris (relative youth, DC outsider)
bbleh
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: and I would say it still is the CW. It’s just that in TIFG’s case the need to hog the entire spotlight at all times is paramount, and he’s genuinely paranoid. I absolutely believe that Pence’s almost unnaturally self-effacing nature, plus the fact that his political career was capital-O Over otherwise, were more important than his putative appeal to the bible-bangers.
Geminid
First announcer: “It’s getting kind of chippy down there on the Comments Section.”
Second: “Looks like another typical Sunday afternoon.”
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Jamey: Brilliant sarcasm. You’ll be a full-grown jackal in no time.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@bbleh: So what will that asshole do this year?
Geminid
@Uncle Cosmo: Do you think the Ravens are going to make any noise in the playoffs?
Jamey
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Thanks! That’s probably the most insulting accusation leveled at me here all day.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Jamey: Word. Glad to be of service.
Of course.
Like a bird with a ratchet in its throat.
Another Scott
@bbleh: Falwell, Jr. is rested and ready!!1
Cheers,
Scott.
Geminid
@Miss Bianca: No, the trick answer is Sam Houston, the first President of the Republic of Texas established in 1836.
Jefferson Davis was born in Kentucky. He just acted like he was born in Virginia.
Another Scott
ICYMI, Teri Kanefield has some thoughts on Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.
I agree with her that it’s complicated.
(The fact that states have their own rules about ballot access might be a better approach than the 14th, given all the minefields there.)
Yet another argument for a baseline of clear, national voting standards. It seems crazy that someone violating their oath and inciting a mob to attack Congress (not just the Capitol building, but the legislature itself) potentially has to be allowed on the ballot because of the way the 14th was written to exclude everyone else who took an oath, but not the instigator, and to come into effect only after they win a race. And if that’s the way it turns out then the law needs to be changed.
IANAL.
Cheers,
Scott.
Timill
@Geminid: You’d do better adding Richard Henry Lee (of the FFV) and Cyrus Griffin.
Timill
@Another Scott: To get to that conclusion, you have to assume that the writers of the Amendment thought that Jefferson Davis should be excluded from returning to the House or the Senate, but should be allowed to be President.
Which is nuts. And if the conclusion is nuts, then so is the premise.
Another Scott
@Timill: My gut agrees.
I don’t see the flaw in Teri’s reasoning on the various scenarios though. Do you?
Cheers,
Scott.
bbleh
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: per 128, I think it’ll be either a Fox-ready woman (“hot” in the Fox sense, and a sharp and nasty sh!t-talker a la Huckabee Sanders) but with NO political history or standing or even prospects (rules out Sanders, for example) and hence the VP nom obviously and solely thanks to him, OR a total beta-male politician with almost no standing and certainly no other prospects but with some quality that the commentariat can say makes him plausible, a la Pence, who again is the VP nom solely thanks to TIFG and is utterly secondary to him.
Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if he holds some kind of “debate,” complete with audience voting, just to make candidates crawl publicly the way he did with Cabinet meetings, which of course Fox would cover live in its entirety.
zhena gogolia
@bbleh: It won’t be a woman or a person of color.
Citizen Alan
@bbleh: It would not require a Constitutional amendment, but you are correct that it was a non-starter even when Dems held the House because the Dems only had 51 in the Senate, and that included Machinema (and probably 2 or 3 others who wouldn’t have gone along with it; Angus King fer sure).
oldgold
@Jamey: I do dispute it. An asshole – yes; but, a random one – never!
gene108
@Miss Bianca:
Conversely, the Garland defenders are not providing evidence the DOJ acted like their hair is on fire trying to prosecute the J6 instigators, like Trump, Lindel, Rudy, etc.
Only DA Willis has included Trump’s flunkies in criminal proceedings.
By being so secretive on investigating a highly public incident, the DOJ has left itself open to criticism from all sides.
Betty Cracker
@zhena gogolia: I heard a never Trump GOP operative who still has contacts in the party speculating about this the other day. She said she’s heard The Beast likes the idea of picking a woman or black man (a black woman would probably be a bridge too far) as long as that person has no chance of eclipsing Trump.
This person said AL Sen. Britt might be in the running, plus Noem or Byron Donalds (R-FL). I’ve heard that a VP from the same state as the POTUS candidate might be a problem, but I don’t know if that’s accurate.
bbleh
@Another Scott: IANAL either but I read through it quickly, and while it’s thoughtful and lucid, two things bugged me.
First, she asserted “someone has to decide for the entire nation.” Why? The people don’t elect the President; the states do. Why can’t different states reach their own different but reasonable (ie not found to be unconstitutional by the USSC) conclusions about who is eligible to run for the state’s electoral votes?
And second, she infers rather a lot from the fact that 14/3 provides a mechanism for Congress to override the prohibition on holding office, specifically that it means that there can be no prohibition on running for office. This seems like sophistry to me: I don’t think it would be unreasonable for a state to say that if someone may not hold office then they can’t appear on a ballot to run for that office. Moreover, if it applies to 14/3, why not to Article II, which says “nobody shall be eligible to the Office” who doesn’t meet qualifications? It doesn’t say they can’t run for it.
I still think the SC will take one or more of the several off-ramps and say he’s gotta stay on the ballot everywhere. It’d be too explosive otherwise.
Alison Rose
@Jamey: As you have already learned, oldgold was being sarcastic/jokey. I think that was kind of obvious, because even in the desecrated halls of Balloon Juice, it would be odd for someone to call someone a crazy bastard for a calmly stated differing opinion.
When I called a dude on FB who was arguing that Earth is the only planet in the universe a crazy bastard, I think that was warranted, even though he was “a stranger I disagreed with”.
bbleh
@zhena gogolia: @Betty Cracker: a Hot Babe he Totally Owns. Complete with smirking on all sides, plus nasty comparisons of all sorts with Harris and Biden. The MAGAts would love it.
Geminid
@zhena gogolia: I actually think Trump will make a more conventional choice, a Senator or a Governor. My reasoning: Trump desperately wants to win, and believes he has to win. Assuming Susan Wiles is still his campaign manager this summer, she’ll tell him that a shaky, flaky VP could cost him a winnable election. I think others will tell him the same.
UncleEbeneezer
@Miss Bianca: The whole presumption that “DOJ/Garland Dropped the Ball” has the very convenient nature that there’s absolutely no way to ever disprove it. It’s like “Hillary Ran A Flawed Campaign.” It’s an exercise in Monday morning quarterbacking for which all the believer has to do is just reassert “well I still think it’s true” no matter what happens or what information comes out.
Perfect example- for the longest time Garland-haters have claimed that DOJ wasn’t looking into Trump or VIPs in his world until after the January 6th Committee prompted them to do so. A related version is that nothing was really happening until Jack Smith was appointed Special Counsel. Adam Schiff made this claim/complaint in September of 2022 and all the Garland-haters were like “See? Adam Schiff/Jan 6th Committee agree with us” even while many of us noted that was highly likely that Schiff, the 1/6 Committee and everyone crying about DOJ’s lack of urgency, had no idea what DOJ was actually doing in it’s investigation because they DON’T DO INVESTIGATIONS IN PUBLIC!
Fast forward to December of 2023 and low and behold, court filings show that DOJ was, in fact investigating high-level people in Trump’s orbit and already considering Obstruction charges even before Jack Smith was appointed and even before the Jan 6th Committee recommended Obstruction charges in their report. They were doing exactly what Schiff complained they weren’t. Schiff was wrong and so were the people who trumpeted his claims.
And yet, I haven’t seen a single one of them do a mea culpa and say “you know what, it turns out we were wrong about that and DOJ was doing more than we thought.” (something you’d think they would celebrate given this is what they said they wanted)
Many commenters here (and even some front-page posters too) were all aboard the Schiff/Jan6Committee train and made the same mistake. None of them have owned up to it or changed their stance as a result. Note: They did the same thing with Mark Pomerantz/Manhattan DA’s office, bashing Alvin Bragg and then never admitting they were wrong even when we found out that his investigation of Trump had actually been open and ongoing all the time they claimed it was not. But how many mea culpas have we seen? ZERO
It doesn’t matter how many legal scholars you cite or how many statistics about the speed of the courts (including being shut down for a Pandemic) you share. They just know in their hearts that things should’ve moved faster the way people know that Hillary should’ve done something, anything different. And you can’t convince them otherwise. Hell, they can’t even tell you what WOULD convince them otherwise because the truth is that they’re just gonna double-down no matter what you say/write. They don’t want to be convinced. They want to refuse to be convinced, and be patted on the back and treated like very serious thinkers, for doing so. Honestly, it’s like arguing with your anti-vax relatives who are so certain there is something wrong with the Covid vaccine. The goal-posts will always be moved so they can maintain their stance. Sometimes I push back for the sake of other people reading along, but never because I think I will convince the haters. Even if Trump gets convicted and multiple reports show that DOJ handled the investigations to the letter of best investigatory practices, it won’t even matter. The haters will just claim it still should have been handled better because something, something, Merrick Garland and Hillary didn’t visit Wisconsin…
Betty Cracker
@Geminid: I’d feel a lot better if Wiles wasn’t running the campaign. She’s no dummy.
UncleEbeneezer
@gene108: If DOJ included all the co-conspirators in the first round of charges, there’s no way in hell he’d face trial before the election. The investigation is open and ongoing and Smith can charge all those fuckers with future, superseding indictments.
Miss Bianca
@Jamey: What WaPo reporting? If you’ve cited any WaPo reporting in any of your comments, I don’t see it . If you’re referring to that long URL-that’s-not-actually-a-link-to-something–pbs-something, you might want to make that an active link if you want people to look at it.
zhena gogolia
@gene108: The DOJ is always secretive.
Miss Bianca
@gene108: Jesus Christ on a fucking handcart, if the DOJ are doing their jobs properly, they are not telegraphing their moves to the press!
And certainly not to *me!* Do I assert that Merrick Garland probably knows how to do his fucking job as Attorney General better than any of his naysayers do? Yeah, sure I do. Do I have any evidence for that assertion? Well, gee, I dunno…I mean, just off the top of my head, wasn’t he the guy who prosecuted Timothy McVeigh?
I suppose there’s some way a “Do Nothing Garlander” could twist that into a “soft on domestic terrorism” proof…but if you’re gonna play that game, I’d just as soon you went and played with yourself.
evodevo
@bbleh: I still remember that dinner meeting with the Mittster lol
Chris
@Jeffro:
I think what people miss about Trump is just how much of an explosion of optimism he’s caused in right wing politics.
From the mid sixties until the mid 2010s, it was a truism in politics that you couldn’t go beyond a certain line in racism without alienating so much of the country you’d lose an election. That was the whole point of “dog whistle” politics. Nobody knew exactly where the line was, but it was widely believed that Trump was hell and gone over it; that was why everyone was sure he’d lose in 2016.
And then… he didn’t.
And then in 2020, after four years of very little gain and a hideously mismanaged last year… he actually gained votes.
Trump pulverized half a century of conventional wisdom and showed Republicans that they didn’t, in fact, need to be nearly as careful in being racist out loud; in fact, it might be better if they weren’t careful! I think it’s impossible to overstate just how thrilled this made right wingers of all levels and how excited they feel that their possibilities have been so dramatically expanded. It’s like they live in a world where George Wallace can win. It’s simply unthinkable to them that they’d ditch the person who opened up all that for them.
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: I’m just glad Wiles wasn’t running Trump’s 2020 campaign. That was a winnable race.
Ed. This one will be a lot tougher.
Soprano2
@Hoodie: We may get “lucky” in MO again this year because there’s a Republican “Freedom Caucus” in both the state House and Senate. They don’t compromise with even fellow Republicans at all. That’s what kept any initiative petition “reform” from passing last year.
Soprano2
@Geminid: This made me laugh, thanks. I don’t do that enough these days.
Jamey
@Miss Bianca: it doesn’t seem like this will sway your opinion, but: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/report-says-doj-resisted-investigating-trumps-role-in-jan-6-for-over-a-year
Washington Post’s Aaron Davis on PBS, discussing his reporting on the Jan 6 investigations. You can also read the full anrticle online if you have a WaPo subscription.