Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I really should read my own blog.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

The US Supreme Court is on the ballot in november.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

In my day, never was longer.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Republicans don’t trust women.

It’s easier to kill a dangerous animal than a man who just happens to have different thoughts/values than one’s own.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

I was promised a recession.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Republicans can’t even be trusted with their own money.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” is supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

This fight is for everything.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / Counterpoint Open Thread: The Repubs Just Shot Themselves in Their Clown Shoes

Counterpoint Open Thread: The Repubs Just Shot Themselves in Their Clown Shoes

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We complain that every GOP legislator is an angry moron, but at least some of them have been functional enough to put together bills sufficient to be treated as legislation… or to hire staffers that will handle those details for them. But the Repub (Very) Base, and the Angry Toddler Caucus that speaks for them, is doing its best to undermine those last remaining props, like Langford. Cynic that I am, I agree with Josh Marshall — “Make No Mistake. The House GOP is On the Ropes Here.”:

I wouldn’t be so quick to assume Democrats got taken by working with Senate Republicans to put together this bipartisan border deal. There are a number of provisions in this deal which many Democrats won’t like at all just on the merits. That is an important question. But here I’m talking about the politics. It’s House Republicans who are in an awkward position now.

House Republicans are now clearly refusing to support provisions they’ve been demanding for years. Now they claim that they are refusing to support or even allow a vote on the deal because it doesn’t go far enough. But it’s a bit late for that since they were already pretty open about simply refusing to vote for anything until Trump becomes President again.

They certainly aren’t the only political party to opt for politics in an election year over the policies they purportedly want. But if they’re going to do that, it’s elementary that the other party will and should hit them over the head with it. Trump told them to kill the bill and the House leadership is doing everything it can to accomplish that. Trump owns them. They follow his commands…

Over the last 48 hours every House Republican has been putting out statements that the bill is absolutely, positively dead on arrival. DEAD, they tell you! They’re protesting a bit too much. They really, really want this bill to die in the Senate. If it doesn’t get a vote in the Senate, there’s not a lot of pressure. Schedule a vote on what? House Republicans can reasonably ask. It hasn’t even passed the Senate. If and when it does pass the Senate it gets harder to refuse it a vote.

You and I both know that “NO!” is the Republican superpower. You have something so popular, so un-no-able and yet they say “NO!” and it works. But here the protestations give away the game. Can they prevent it from getting a vote in the House even if it passes the Senate? Probably? If I were betting I would say they can and will. But their actions tell us that they know refusing the bill a vote in the House after it’s passed on a bipartisan basis in the Senate will do them a lot of harm on their signature issue during an election year.

Democrats should force them to accept that damage. It won’t do itself. They have to force it. And the key is getting it passed in the Senate.

Reader Interactions

123Comments

  1. 1.

    MattF

    Don’t know— but one should bear in mind that the R margin in the House is very nearly zero, while the U.S.S. TFG is visibly leaking and listing. Various things could happen, and House Ds could decide they rather enjoy beating up their R ‘friends’.

  2. 2.

    Yutsano

    If the Democrats want to force this bill from what I understand they need to start the discharge petition like yesterday. We of course don’t know what all is happening since Jeffries is probably holding his cards to his chest. But I’ve also seen that while Johnson blusters a lot he’s also pretty weak in the role. So who knows what’s going to happen.

    EDIT: It’s also my understanding that while Scalise is flapping his gums he’s not back in the chamber yet.

  3. 3.

    Betty Cracker

    I admire Lankford’s slam on Musk, who has been telling his incel fanbase the Great Replacement theory is the gospel truth every damn day. He’s one immigrant I’d love to see deported like yesterday. We’ve got way too many native-born fascist oligarchs in the U.S. already and don’t need to import any.

  4. 4.

    BR

    Josh Marshall had a super important post today that needs to be shared far and wide:

    t’s a profile of far-right Kahanist politician Itamar Ben Gvir, who is one of the two ultra-far-right figure keeping Netanyahu in power. Through the article he pines for the return of Donald Trump who would, Ben Gvir says, finally give Israel the free hand it needs to encourage the “voluntary” departure of the Gazan population and resettle the strip with Israel settlements.

    “Instead of giving us his full backing, Biden is busy with giving humanitarian aid and fuel [to Gaza], which goes to Hamas,” Ben-Gvir told the Journal. “If Trump was in power, the U.S. conduct would be completely different.”

    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/waiting-for-trump

  5. 5.

    YY_Sima Qian

    Genuine question, when was the last time the GOP paid an electoral price for refusing to support legislations that purport to advance policies they had purportedly advocated for years? It is also not obvious that there are 10 GOP Senators willing to go straight against Trump.

    The merits of the Senate package is not terrible on the merits, but not good either. The more fundamental issue is that these compromises w/ an ever more extremist GOP further solidifies & legitimizes the nativist/reactionary framing over an ever expanding field of policy areas, & keeps the political debate on grounds that favor the nativist reactionaries, demoralizes & cause disillusionment among one part of the Dem coalition or another, & the electoral benefit to Dems generally are illusive.

    While each compromise is defensible in isolation, the overall dynamic is deeply damaging. We have seen how that dynamic work out over the medium to long term on national security & domestic “law & order”.

    Lastly, compromises such as Obamacare, the ARRA, TARP, IRA at least got half a loaf that improved upon the status quo. The immigration provisions in the current deal is worse than the status quo, & give legitimizes the made up border “crisis” w/ a bipartisan deal of approval.

    If the deal gives Ukraine the desperately need aid (for a while, anyway), that is a big positive, but we should not kid ourselves on the immigration part.

  6. 6.

    Trivia Man

    It just takes one brave clown caucus member to MTV.

    Then dems can help make it explicit- whoever runs for speaker must commit to bringing that bill to the floor

  8. 8.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    Posted at the end of the other thread:

    It isn’t just the Americas and Asia, here are a lot of migrants from Africa who are also paying smuggler ‘guides’ to help them get into the US. We have long had infrastructure to deal with migrants and asylum seekers. That system IS overwhelmed right now. There is a lot of world wide upheaval right now and plenty of people are running to places they think are ‘safe’. In the process, that makes the residents of those ‘safe’ places mad and they become less safe for those migrants. This is true for the US, Europe, and even smaller countries like Chile and Costa Rica.

    In the US, for instance, we currently have a shortage of affordable housing. Rents have really increased. Homelessness has gone up pretty dramatically. Having 10K people crossing the border daily is not helping.

    While I’m generally pretty pro-immigrant, there are limits to how many poor, desperate people we can absorb at once. There have to be limits. I think that limit should be higher than most people in the US do. MAGAs think that limit should be zero. There are actually a lot of normie Republicans who are fine with a number that isn’t zero but isn’t as high as what I’d prefer. A compromise really is needed here and I’m fine with the bill. It isn’t ideal, but it is necessary.

    I’ll add that both soft GOPers AND more conservative Dems want more border security. They want faster processing of immigration claims. They want limits and they want those enforced, humanely.  The Republicans are not doing themselves any favor by whining endlessly, then doing nothing when there was a real chance to tighten security.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    The electoral price here, if any, would be weakening their ability to successfully attack Biden on the border issue.

    No Republican is going to lose on the border issue. They might lose seats if they fail to support Ukraine.

  10. 10.

    trollhattan

    @MattF: Will be a while yet* before we send some drooling Kevin McCarthy seat-warmer to D.C. Enjoy it as long as you can.

    *After the May 21 special election.

  11. 11.

    BR

    @Baud: ​
    The thing that was key with Josh’s post (really the WSJ piece he’s quoting from) is that the far right in Israel is now on the record saying Biden is being too nice in Gaza and that they want Trump.

  15. 15.

    dmsilev

    If Senate Republicans, bowing to Trump as of course they will, successfully filibuster the bill, will it just go away with a fizzle? The press will do its usual and say “Congress failed to pass….” rather than “Republicans blocked…”.

    So, sorry to say, I’m not sure this failing to pass will be that much of a political cudgel. A different story  of course if it somehow does pass the Senate and the House either kills it or just refuses to vote on it.

  16. 16.

    Bill Arnold

    @Baud:

    I’m not sure who will be moved by that though.

    Might provide some clarity, or at least doubt, to some of the “I will vote against Biden the Genocider” people. (The sincere ones.)

  17. 17.

    Baud

    Via Reddit, only the best people

    Arkansas Gov. Sarah Huckabee Sanders (R), who has repeatedly pledged to “protect kids” with anti-LGBTQ+ laws, appointed a man to a top state prison post even though he had previously been fired from a local police force for receiving oral sex from a teen girl in a post office parking lot.

  18. 18.

    BR

    @Baud: ​
    It’s about that piece of information bubbling up to left leaning independents and Dems who are unhappy with Biden on Gaza. They aren’t likely to vote Trump but the young voters in their circle might sit out the election — there’s a real chance of that if something doesn’t change. They need to hear the actual words that the right wants to go even further with the destruction in Gaza and wants Trump’s help in doing so.

  19. 19.

    Trivia Man

    The eventual solution IMHO is help make other countries stronger and safer. We wink at corporate pillaging and turn a blind eye to helpful warlords world wide.

    But we, the USA, should be helping be the change we want to see instead of NIMBY. Stronger countries dont have as many refugees as a failing state does.

  21. 21.

    Kay

    @BR:

    Everyone knows they want Trump. That’s part of what the dissenters object to- they think the Israeli government has Biden promoting/funding an extremely unpopular policy that will harm Biden politically so we are essentially playing right into their hands. They get Biden backing them until they work to beat Biden then they get the President they prefer, Trump. Win/win.

  22. 22.

    Yutsano

    @YY_Sima Qian: Good morning! I see you’re getting a little snow.

    The immigration deal is pretty bad. But it’s not all bad. Getting more asylum workers and actually FUNDING that is a big deal. But the limits for shutting down the border are terrible. And giving the President that much power is rife for abuse. I know in my heart the bill sacrifices good immigration policy for the Ukraine funding. The question becomes is that worth it. My personal opinion is that it is. The government can always fix bad policy (or make it worse if Allah forbid the current Republicans take charge!) but Ukraine is fighting for its existence.

  23. 23.

    minachica

    @Baud: I think it the same “saying the quiet part out loud” that Republicans are doing by refusing to do anything on immigration because that would give Biden a win. It might be useful when campaigning. No?

  25. 25.

    JPL

    @Yutsano: I actually think it is because it takes away trump’s thunder.   It sounds terrible for me to sacrifice people, but if Biden doesn’t win, then more than the immigrants is lost.  imo

  26. 26.

    Albatrossity

    I wish I had enough faith that enough GOP senators can do the right thing every once in a while, but I’m afraid I don’t think that will happen. I’d be happy to be wrong, and the teeth-gnashing of the chaos muppets in the House GOP certainly is evidence that at least some of them think it will pass the Senate, but the Senate has caved time and time again when it comes to doing Trump’s bidding. In an election year, I don’t see that they will do anything different.

  27. 27.

    Kay

    @BR:

    Or you know, the Biden Administration could actually discuss the situation publicly and express some concern and sympathy for the civilian deaths. I have no idea why Josh Marshall by way of the WSJ has to somehow disseminate this to the Dem base. Seems like a very roundabout way for the Biden Administration to speak to two parts of their own base. Joe Biden’s a good talker. He could just say it.

  35. 35.

    kindness

    From what I’ve read I have to figure most Americans would be fine with the Senate bill.  Now most Americans won’t read any part of the bill and they’ll be listening to their favorite media talking heads to explain it to them.  Well, we’ve already seen that Fox (and probably the rest of right wing media) is more than happy to broadcast whole loads of bullshit that have nothing to do with the bill at all.

    I figure the Senate passes it and the House sits on it.  I think if Jeffries could get a Discharge Petition on it though it would pass the House.  Those 20 Biden district Republicans need this bill as much as we do.

  36. 36.

    C Stars

    The fact is Republicans have been screaming about the border being an emergency for years, doing the dumb publicity stunts bussing and flying people around the country and speaking with utmost concern and urgency whenever they have a chance. Now they have a bill in which they get what they want (kind of), it’s no longer an emergency because Trump wants them to wait? I think the optics look bad. Especially for those people who bought the act that our immediate future is threatened because of what’s happening on the border, and now they see the GOP stalling. Anyway, it’s all politics but I do think that Biden called their bluff.

  37. 37.

    TBone

    Sleight of hand is a very important concept.  I learned it as a young, would-be magician with the encouragement of a beloved uncle who gave me the magic tricks paraphernalia as gifts. He taught sign language (and much, much more) at a school for the deaf and kept honey bees for a hobby. He rode his bicycle to school to teach every day. He also taught me to juggle.

  38. 38.

    trollhattan

    @Baud: ​
    Uhhhh.
    “Well, you see, because the alleged incident took place at the Post Office, which is federal, we lacked jurisdiction to investigate it further. Hey look, Guatemalans!“

  39. 39.

    Ladyraxterinok

    How ever angry OK Republicans get at Lankford, he has 4 more years in office as senator

  41. 41.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    Did you see the jury is still out in the Michigan shooter’s mother’s case? Our local court gossips think the state doesn’t have it – that the jury will aquit. I didn’t watch all or most of it but from what I saw I would not convict. She was distracted, she’s gun nutty and irresponsible like all of our gun nuts, but I just don’t think her behavior reaches a criminal level.

    I still think bringing the charges will have a deterrent effect. I bet a lot of parents in Michigan are locking up the ol weapons cache this week.

  42. 42.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @Yutsano: Yes, central southern China has been hit by sleets & freezing rain the past few days, which has wreaked havoc on ground transportation across several provinces, including Hubei. AGW, the gift that keeps on giving!

    Like I said, the Senate deal is defensible in isolation. The problem is that Dems is ceding the framing of political & policy debate to an ever more radicalized GOP. We have seen the cost of Dems ceding the framing in national security & domestic crime to the GOP over the decades, & the victims domestically & internationally. Unless Dems & all of us start to shift the grounds upon which political & policy debates happen away from home field advantage for the nativists & reactionaries, it will be an uphill battle to defeat them, at the polls or in the legislatures. We will then have to wait for the popular backlash against overreach by the nativist reactionaries (as has happened w/ abortion), but how many people will be hurt in that process?

  43. 43.

    Ivan X

    @YY_Sima Qian: Yes, but, we are fucked, sir. We have two political parties in this country, and one of them is insane extremist. They openly support white supremacy, do not believe in government, and are transparent, almost defiant, in their grift. Even if they cheat via gerrymandering and vote suppression, they shouldn’t be able to win one election with the platform they have and the bad faith they so joyously embrace. But, as long as voters keep voting for them, can we expect to find any compromise with this party anything other than disquieting and distasteful?

  44. 44.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @Ivan X: If I was a Dem legislator in Congress I would hold my nose & vote for the package, while trying to hold back my the vomit. However, Biden winning in Nov. is not enough to defeat or even contain the nativist reactionaries, any more than Obama winning twice did, any more than Dem winning all those elections during the Cold War avoided ugly foreign & domestic policies & uglier consequences that reverberate to this day.

    It’s necessary, but insufficient.

  45. 45.

    Ivan X

    @YY_Sima Qian: Necessary but insufficient is what has mostly snuffed out my personal political enthusiasm since 2010. I’m not saying that as a complaint, just as a statement of realpolitik. It’s hard to motivate myself around just being able to hold the line against willful destruction, with never a hope of advancing forward. It’s hard to accept that my fellow citizens, even if personally decent people, are voting for a party that’s all in on deceit, obstruction, contempt, and oppositionalism. It fucking sucks.

    Sorry all, sometimes I have a drink and get into a good mood. Today is not one of those days. The weather in CA is not helping.

  46. 46.

    Mike in NC

    Being a Republican in the US House is basically another form of Wingnut Welfare. Do nothing at all and collect a fat paycheck.

    I still think Marjorie Traitor Greene is going to be their next Speaker.

  52. 52.

    Ruckus

    @C Stars:

    Rethuglicans have little choice other than SFB. The rank side of their party likes him. They quite possibly cannot get one of their own in the WH who isn’t him. And he didn’t do their rich supporters any harm when he was in. Joe Biden is doing a rather good job as president, just look at the FTFNYT about how bad he is. That is because their audience is the wealthy who benefit from screwing the population. They HAVE to talk up SFB, they have NO ONE ELSE to write about. SFB has actually decimated a lot of the rethuglican party and any ideals they may have had, other than MONEY. SFB has screwed their party as much as he has the country, maybe more. All we can hope is that he’s convicted of a few of the felonies he’s been charged with well before the election. Because they have no one else. They have backed him hard core because he supposedly had money, the absolutely only thing left the rethuglican party can actually count on. What are the rest of their policies? Don’t worry I’m not holding my breath.

  53. 53.

    gene108

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    Genuine question, when was the last time the GOP paid an electoral price for refusing to support legislations that purport to advance policies they had purportedly advocated for years?

    Never in my adult lifetime. Maybe when I was a kid in the 1970’s and 1980’s? 🤷‍♀️

    The problem with the U.S. immigration system is that at its base is a lot of racism that restricts the ability of non-Europeans to immigrate here. If the U.S. really wanted a fair immigration system, it would start reducing barriers to non-European immigrants. There are not enough voters who strongly favor this to get a full scale correction to this problem, so there’s only going to be haphazard attempts to do something that makes things better for some people and worse for others.

  55. 55.

    Jackie

    Uh oh. The Border Patrol Union – who endorsed TIFG in 2020 has endorsed The Border Act of 2024! 😳😵‍💫

    As conservatives in Congress have blasted the new bipartisan border agreement for not going far enough, the legislation earned a key endorsement on Monday: the labor union that represents U.S. Border Patrol agents.
    The National Border Patrol Council — which represents more than 18,000 agents — said the bill would “drop illegal border crossings nationwide and will allow our agents to get back to detecting and apprehending those who want to cross our border illegally and evade apprehension.”

    It’s a significant statement of support from a group that endorsed former President Donald Trump in 2020 and has repeatedly railed against President Joe Biden’s handling of the border.
    “While not perfect, the Border Act of 2024 is a step in the right direction and is far better than the current status quo,” Brandon Judd, president of the council, said in the statement. “This is why the National Border Patrol Council endorses this bill and hopes for its quick passage.”
    Just last week, Judd attended a House Republican roundtable in the Capitol entitled “The Impact of the Biden Border Crisis” and slammed the Biden administration for having “destabilized our Southwest Border.”
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/new-immigration-bill-senate-bipartisan-border-patrol-endorsement-rcna137354

  56. 56.

    TBone

    @Baud: it’s the same one I posted for that OG guy.  I added a “bible” quote for panache, as is my wont.  I’m surprised no one asked why I told my sleight of hand parable. Like, what has that to do with… anything?

  57. 57.

    trollhattan

    @Jackie: ​
    “destabilized our Southwest Border.”

    Literally a job for geotechnical engineers, not some gun-totin’ lawmen.

  58. 58.

    cain

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    I hate when we describe their actions as ‘whining’ – they are cretins who believe cruelty is the point. That bullshit with a woman and her kids drowning is what makes it ‘not whining’ but something that actually is leading to death.

    (this isn’t directed at you specifically, a lot of folks on the internet is saying this and I wanted to get that out there)

  62. 62.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Baud: to infinity and beyond!

    [ETA a proposed campaign slogan. A bit used, perhaps, but still serviceable.]

  69. 69.

    Bill Arnold

    @TBone:
    Thanks. Hadn’t read that (or Timothy Snyder’s still short full “On Tyranny”) in a couple of years. Should be required reading at least once per year.

  71. 71.

    Jackie

    @Sally: Speaking of Brandon… TIFG wants to debate Biden NOW!!!

    (Haley is waving her hand at TIFG, saying “excuse me?!!”)

    Donald Trump pushed for an early debate with President Biden, CNBC reports.

    Said Trump: “I’d like to debate him now because we should debate. We should debate for the good of the country.”

    Biden replied: “Well, if I were him I’d want to debate me too. He’s got nothing else to do.”

  72. 72.

    lowtechcyclist

    Does anyone ever ask these GOP idiots, “What are the dire consequences America is experiencing as a result of whatever it is that you say is happening at the border?”

    For if there are no consequences to speak of, there is no crisis, end of story.

  75. 75.

    Elizabelle

    @Jackie:

    Biden replied: “Well, if I were him I’d want to debate me too. He’s got nothing else to do.”

    LOL.  Unsaid:  except sit his butt in a variety of courtrooms and shut his piehole.

  76. 76.

    Quadrillipede

    @TBone: I shall bookmark this. I think I’d independently arrived at about 8-10 of the points over the last decade or so, but the others all look practicable too. Been trying to get out of my comfort zone and start trying to make improvements where and when I can…

  80. 80.

    gene108

    @Kay:

    Remarks at a campaign reception (emphasis mine) on December 12, 2023 with media present:

    We know that this year’s Hanukkah is different after October the 7th attack. As I said after the attack, the safety of the Jewish people, the literal security of Israel as an independent Jewish state is literally at stake. But it is unshakeable, our commitment to Israel.

    We continue to provide military assistance to Israel as it goes after Hamas. And I’ve personally spent hours — hours, without exaggeration — talking to the Qataris, the Egyptians, the Israelis to secure the freedom of more than 100 hostages. And we’re go- — not going to stop until we — every hostage is returned home — (applause) — every one.

    We’ll continue leading the world in delivering humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian civilians as well to emphasize to our friends in Israel the need to protect civilian life. And they understand it, the vast majority of the population.

    But most of all, we condemn Hamas’s using rape, sexual violence, terrorism, and torture of Israeli women and girls without equivocation, without exception.

    You know, they — I saw some of the photographs when I was there — tying a mother and her daughter together on a rope and then pouring kerosene on them and then burning them, beheading infants, doing things that are just inhuman — totally, completely inhuman.

    I also recognize your hurt from the silence and the fear of the safety — your safety because of the surge of antisemitism here in America and around the world.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2023/12/12/remarks-by-president-biden-at-a-campaign-reception-5/

    This Israel-Gaza war will fracture the Democratic electorate on generational lines.

    There’s no way to say “we provide humanitarian aide to Gaza”, while not forcing Israel to accept a ceasefire, at a minimum, that will work with the people mad at U.S. Israel policy right now.

    The older generation that is pro-Israel is well connected, has deep pockets, and is very much embedded in our institutions, from Harvard to Congress, and feels very threatened in a world without the U.S. giving Israel a free hand to deal with Gaza.

    The Israeli conservative parties are setting themselves up nicely to undermine Biden and get their man Trump re-elected, and have very little reason to do anything the Biden administration wants.

  81. 81.

    cain

    @Jackie: You know he’s not going to debate Biden. He’s gonna cancel at the last minute because it’s not staffed by far right assholes.

    The whole thing is some attack on Haley – by going straight to debating Biden he can just claim  that Biden already thinks he’s the front runner and they should skip all this crap. Lazy fuck.

  83. 83.

    Baud

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Sec. 3402. Additional visas.  Authorizes an additional 250,000 immigrant visas for the next five fiscal years, which would be divided between the family-based (32,000/fiscal year) and employment-based 18,000/fiscal year) visa categories.  These visas would not expire until issued and are subject to numerical limitations in Sec. 202 and the allocation of immigrant visas in Sec. 203.

  85. 85.

    Lyrebird

    @Kay: ​
     

    I am puzzled by this part:

    Biden Administration could actually discuss the situation publicly and express some concern and sympathy for the civilian deaths.

    You are someone much more knowledgeable about politics than the kidz Baud and others are referring to, certainly more knowledgeable than I am. To me, though, it sure seems like nothing can move the needle here, not Biden’s personally apologizing to Muslim-American leaders (that was in November), him talking about the unacceptable death toll of Gazan civilians in uhh was it the Philly speech?, him flying there in the first place to make that humanitarian corridor by going himself…

    The war is an atrocity. The massive losses are not made better by this being the first US adminstration I’ve heard of to sanction violent settlers, but as a US voter, that matters to me, and it sounds like it’s completely lost in the social media floods.

  86. 86.

    lowtechcyclist

    @gene108:

    There’s no way to say “we provide humanitarian aide to Gaza”, while not forcing Israel to accept a ceasefire, at a minimum, that will work with the people mad at U.S. Israel policy right now.

    How do we force Israel to do anything?

  90. 90.

    lowtechcyclist

    @TBone:

    Agency is also a very important concept!

    Well yeah, but it’s important to understand the limits of one’s agency.

  91. 91.

    TBone

    PSA Jen Psaki is awesome tonight.  Sherilyn Ifill and Jena Griswold were amazing 🤩 and women warriors are just getting started.

  92. 92.

    TBone

    @lowtechcyclist: that’s exactly what I meant. Some of us don’t recognize the import of assignation of same.  Me included sometimes.  It’s hard to keep up when chaos dogs howl incessantly.

  93. 93.

    cain

    @gene108: Apparently, most of the population of Israel is quite ok to bomb the shit out of Gaza.

    I’d probably be careful vacationing in Egypt and other places with that attitude.

  94. 94.

    schrodingers_cat

    OT: My assortment of Pitt pens arrived today! I haven’t yet swatched them all. I am so excited. These are India Ink markers that are lightfast made by FaberCastell.

  95. 95.

    Kay

    @gene108:

    Read that statement again and tell me that’s sufficient to acknowlege 30,000 dead civilians, 40% of whom are children. It’s a single,bland sentence, inserted. Now compare to his last paragraph on Israeli losses. Does that seem even handed to you? It doesn’t to me – I would submit it’s not and anyone reading it can see it, unless they don’t want to.

    Compare and contrast:

    You know, they — I saw some of the photographs when I was there — tying a mother and her daughter together on a rope and then pouring kerosene on them and then burning them, beheading infants, doing things that are just inhuman — totally, completely inhuman.

    We’ll continue leading the world in delivering humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian civilians as well to emphasize to our friends in Israel the need to protect civilian life.

    See it now? That’s what Arab Americans in Lansing and Kalamazoo and Detroit are seeing- the inequitable treatment. I see it too so I don’t blame them.

  98. 98.

    C Stars

    @Ruckus: LOL true, there’s really no “there” there, in terms of policy wins on their side. The only policy win for them now is King Trump. Whatever he says becomes reality.

  99. 99.

    Kay

    @gene108:

    Im voting for Biden. No one has to convince me – his Israel policy sucks but he’s good on many other things.

    But I don’t intend to blow smoke up peoples  asses either. The Biden Administration rhetoric on Palestininian casualties has been WOEFULLY insufficient and ridiculously skewed toward Israel losses, while barely acknowledging civilian deaths. Arab Americans are right to be upset.
    I think Biden has an Israel blind spot. He’s been a rah rah Israel senator his whole career so I’m not surprised by that – I Am surprised by his coldness and boilerplate bromides towards  the civilian victims. WTF. At least make a godammed effort to appear to care.

  101. 101.

    Quadrillipede

    @TBone: AFAICT, taking the time to figure out and make peace with yourself makes you more effective when you do apply yourself.

    (I write this as someone “over 45” who had a childhood that was decidedly not great in some aspects…)

  103. 103.

    gene108

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    Like I said, the Senate deal is defensible in isolation. The problem is that Dems is ceding the framing of political & policy debate to an ever more radicalized GOP.

    The basic disparity in how Democratic priorities are treated versus Republican priorities is due to each parties respective electorate. Democrats are a coalition of racial and ethnic minorities and some white people.

    The Republican electorate is mostly white. More important for the public framing of debates is anywhere between 3/5’s to 2/3’s of white men vote Republican, nationally, in any given election.

    The country is hardwired to treat the interests of white men as more important than anyone else’s concerns.

    If most white men think we are being invaded, that is how the issue will be framed.

    It’s changing here and there, but the change is very slow to spread.

    Unless Dems & all of us start to shift the grounds upon which political & policy debates happen away from home field advantage for the nativists & reactionaries, it will be an uphill battle to defeat them, at the polls or in the legislatures.

    The problem for Democrats to shift the debate on immigration is there isn’t a real consensus on immigration. Only a couple of points seem amenable to most Democrats. One is giving DACA recipients citizenship. The other is giving illegals immigrants, who have been here for years, and not broken any laws other than immigration laws, a way to be here legally.

    The rest of the pain points in the immigration that enables immigration officials to slow walk special visa applications for people in Iraq and Afghanistan, who aided the U.S., alleviating the 20+ year backlog of family sponsorship visas from Mexico, etc. really doesn’t have much consensus other than activists on these issues trying to expedite things.

    Republicans, on the other hand, have very strong opinions and near universal agreement on making immigration harder to impossible.

    We will then have to wait for the popular backlash against overreach by the nativist reactionaries (as has happened w/ abortion), but how many people will be hurt in that process?

    Yes. Large scale changes to the public’s attitude on issues such immigration does not happen until a crisis point is reached, like with abortion, or the evidence of systemic abuse of power becomes so overwhelming people decide to side with the victims, like the #MeToo movement.

  104. 104.

    Kay

    @Lyrebird:

    Dud he say “unacceptable”? I sure hope not, because if he meant “unacceptable” then he really has to take action, doesn’t he?

    The civilian casualties are obviously acceptable. We are in the process of giving them 10 billion more dollars to make more.

    I think it’s hard to defend this policy, which is why they are doing such a poor job of it. But that isn’t the fault of the people who are demanding they defend it.

    Maybe they can limit losses in Michigan to 50k of the. +\- Arab American vote they got last time, but I suggest they find someone other than members of the Biden Administration to do outreach. They seem deaf on this issue.

  105. 105.

    TBone

    @Quadrillipede: certainly something in that, in my experience!  My childhood wasn’t all rose gardens and puppies (far from it), and conquering those demons is an integral part of preparing oneself to be a thoughtful and informed citizen whose participation successful democracy depends upon.

  107. 107.

    gene108

    @Ivan X:

    It’s hard to motivate myself around just being able to hold the line against willful destruction, with never a hope of advancing forward.

    I do not understand this view about “never a hope of advancing forward”.

    The level of acceptance for interracial marriage is nearly universal. A majority of people support gay marriage. People like not being denied health insurance based on pre-existing conditions. Most people want to solve global warming, as a general principle, though many do not know how much they can help individually. We had a black man as President, and currently have a biracial Indian-Jamaican woman as Vice President. Liberal is no longer a dirty word that kills political carriers and needs to be shunned by politicians.

    The list goes on.

    The reactionaries, unfortunately, do not quit trying to “take us back”, which can be exhausting.

  108. 108.

    ...now I try to be amused

    @Ruckus:

    Rethuglicans have little choice other than SFB.

    A Rachel Bitecofer thread on X-Twitter comes to mind:

    [Democrats are] not the GOP. As my lovely neighbor put it, the Republicans don’t take a turd & polish it – they take the turd & pick it up, hug it, & say, “that’s MY turd! I love this turd! This is the best damn turd in the world!” They do that because the party, the whole party, is made up of forest people. They will hug a turd because they know that unless they do, they will lose. They will operate on the assumption that they can win with a turd until they are proven wrong on election day.

    Dems are not like this. They abandon winnable races all the time when they *think* they have the wrong nominee. They have an entire universe of consultants & strategists with terrible track records that get rehired every cycle somehow. I think it is not only possible, it may even be likely, that the national Dem Party will write off Sanders under the erroneous (that means wrong) belief that he simply can’t win when in fact, if the party from top to bottom strategically rallied around him & made lemons out of lemonade, polarization virtually guarantees a close election.

  109. 109.

    Jackie

    @TBone: Watching now on time delay👍🏻

    Jen Psaki is awesome tonight.  Sherilyn Ifill and Jena Griswold were amazing 🤩 and women warriors are just getting started.

    We Democrats have amazing, strong women representing our party!

  110. 110.

    Kay

    @Lyrebird:

    I don’t mind losing with a good candidate who gives it their all. We’ll, I mind, but I mind less :)

    But I don’t understand just blithely alienating your supporters like they’re doing. If this is the most important election of our lifetimes then our politicians should act like it.
    If Biden is too bullheaded or blind to realize he has offended these people – and they’re right to be offended- then maybe he isn’t that worried about democracy after all.

  111. 111.

    gene108

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Does this bill address the Dreamers or the people stuck in GC waiting lists?

    There is a provision that people who immigrated here as minors, with one or both parents on an H1-b visa, can continue to stay on a dependent visa after turning 21. That’s about it.

  113. 113.

    Kay

    I watched the Jodie Foster True Detective because I like her and I like that women don’t have to fuck with their faces to work past 50 – but it’s HORRIBLE and she must have known it was horrible – she seems smart.

    It’s the dialogue. And the plot. And the characters.
    Why oh why did they do this to Jodie Foster.

  115. 115.

    Lyrebird

    @Kay: I’ll agree you are right, but I don’t feel like you read past the first third of my comment.

    If Biden is too bullheaded or blind to realize he has offended these people

    How does arranging a personal meeting to apologize square with what you said here?  And no that wasn’t a verbatim summary of what he said in the speech.  i need to go back to job hunting.

  116. 116.

    TBone

    Rachel is doing a great job explaining the chaos in Nevada this week and prior, and she’s funny too.

  118. 118.

    Kay

    @Lyrebird:

    I’d have to see what he said at his meeting with them in November. The only meeting I saw is the meeting they refused, 2 weeks ago, but that was with campaign people. They refused because they want to talk about the Israel policy before they talk re elect politics.

    I think Democrats are uncomfortable talking about it because they (actually) know it’s very bad – Sherrod Brown dodges discussing it too. That was probably effective politically for the first month or two – ignoring it- but we’re now going on month five. At some point they have to defend this policy.

  121. 121.

    Paul in KY

    @Kay: He was talking to a bunch of Jewish people. Also, Hamas did what they did. The kind of atrocities that generally have not been seen in civilized society since Hulagu Khan.

    He does need to be much more explicit in his condemnation of the Israeli ‘kill them all, God will know his own’ type response.

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