Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Democrats have delivered the Square Deal, the New Deal, the Fair Deal, and now… the Big Joe Biden Deal.

If you are in line to indict donald trump, stay in line.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

Hot air and ill-informed banter

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

An unpunished coup is a training exercise.

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you don’t.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

Don’t expect peaches from an apple tree.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

It could be worse. Vance could have said “post-menopausal sows.” Waiting for that audiotape to surface.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

There are a lot more evil idiots than evil geniuses.

It’s a doggy dog world.

White supremacy is terrorism.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / 2024 Primaries / Primary Open Thread: Michigan Edition

Primary Open Thread: Michigan Edition

by | 120 Comments

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Suzy Villarreal, 63, self-employed, voted for Joe at the Maybury Elementary School in Detroit.

“The alternative is a nutcase, who is trying to take our rights away. I don’t like the idea of the government making choices for women.

I have a granddaughter and I’m really worried about her future and her ability to make her own decisions about her body.”

“I get what’s happening in Dearborn and I’d be pissed too but now is not the time for a protest vote.

It’s just going to hurt Biden and get the other guy elected. We can’t let that happen.”

2) Michigan doesn’t have party registration so it’s difficult to tell which party a voter has pulled a ballot for (challenging on trying to get turnout for each party)

3) This is the first time that Michigan has had a presidential primary this early and only the secind time it’s been an actual primary and not a caucus or “firehouse primary”

4) Fifteen percent is the threshhold for delegate allocation statewide and for individual Congressional District national delegate allocation

5) Which means less than 15% does not translate to delegates to the Democratic Convention, which is how nominees for president are chosen

6) And no, I have no idea what’s going to happen, wouldn’t trust “exit polls” (like ever, not just today) and polls are open until 8 pm.

7) Note on when polls close: There are four counties in Michigan that are on Central time (those are on in the Upper Pennisula on the Wisconsin border) and that’s why some new organizations say that polls close at 9 pm. They don’t, it just takes into account those counties.

8) Here’s hoping the headlines haven’t already been written that whatever happens in Michigan today will show Trump’s strength and Biden’s weakness, but I’m not optimistic.

Seriously:Thank you, Captain Obvious…

Reuters found its perfect header photo — a woman in a burqa standing three steps behind a burly, bearded dude. “‘Uncommitted’ voters angry over Gaza test Biden’s support in Michigan”:

President Joe Biden’s support for Israel’s war against Hamas in Gaza was being put to the test on Tuesday in Michigan, home to a large Arab American constituency where Democratic voters were urged to mark their primary ballots as “uncommitted” in protest…

Six voters Reuters interviewed at a polling place on Tuesday in Dearborn – a liberal city that is the epicenter of the pushback against Biden’s Israel strategy – said they were voting uncommitted. Another said he was voting for Trump.

But in Detroit, Michigan’s largest city, most Democrats interviewed said they would stick with Biden despite misgivings about his Israel policy, because of their dislike for Trump or Republican policies on abortion rights…

DUELING REPUBLICAN CONTESTS
Michigan turnout for Trump rival Nikki Haley, who won nearly 40% of Republican votes in her home state of South Carolina on Saturday, could offer signs about the number of Republicans who harbor doubts about a second four-year Trump term.

Michigan’s Republican Party, beset by internal turmoil, will allocate some delegates to the party’s July convention based on Tuesday’s primary results.

Rival factions are holding dueling party meetings on Saturday that will award the bulk of the delegates. It was unclear, however, which results will be official, although Trump was expected to handily win both sets of Saturday’s votes.

Opinion polls show Trump holding an average statewide lead of nearly 57 percentage points over Haley, according to the poll tracking website FiveThirtyEight.

Still, the results in Michigan will be watched to see how much Trump struggles to attract large numbers of moderates and traditional Republicans, voters he will likely need to win back the White House in November…

There will be spinning:

Reader Interactions

120Comments

  1. 1.

    Mousebumples

    Question – why was Obama not on the 08 primary ballot? I probably knew that once upon a time, but I don’t recall.

    Comment – last time I was in Michigan was probably 10 ish years ago when I worked a shift at the Walgreens in Marinette, WI for a few days. Far enough from my home that they put me up in a cheap hotel and covered 1 meal a day (no alcohol allowed). Went to Menominee, MI, across the bridge, for dinner one night and got a glass of wine on a separate check. 😂 Good food, but I was glad to get back to my own bed a few days later…

    Go Biden!

  2. 2.

    Chris

    Roommate and I put on The Fifth Element in lieu of the Michigan primaries.

    People on the IMDb message boards used to rag on the idea of “why would a profit-driven capitalist take money to help the Ultimate Evil destroy the world?  Money that they won’t be able to spend because the money, the world, and them will all be gone?  Doesn’t make any sense!”  It makes perfect sense.  Either he’s doing it for the lolz or he really is that dumb.  Either way, tell me with a straight face that you can’t picture Elon Musk doing that.

    (Unrelatedly, also my favorite Gary Oldman role).

  3. 3.

    bbleh

    I just can’t get too excited about Dem primary results in ONE state in February when (1) short of medical disaster there’s no doubt about the nominee and (2) there’s an issue that is both VERY important to an important segment of the Dem coalition in that state and evolving VERY rapidly.  The issue is indeed very important in its own right — in fact, Biden himself is seized of it, and correctly so — but as regards the nomination and election (which is, ah, more than seven months away), it’s just the media selling clicks.

  4. 4.

    Jay

    Isn’t one of the “Gaza Protest” vote org’s “leader” a Republican Palestinian who voted for TIFG, ran for office as a Republican, is still registered as a Republican, and is now pretending to be a “Democrat who’s Party Left Him”?,

  5. 5.

    CHETAN R MURTHY

    @Chris: you might ask them to look up the ceteris paribus fallacy.  The belief that the small change that you make will not affect the larger world, that is to say, everything else will stay the same. Except, you’ll get the extra money from the thing that you did.

  6. 6.

    Anne Laurie

    @Jay: Isn’t one of the “Gaza Protest” vote org’s “leader” a Republican Palestinian who voted for TIFG, ran for office as a Republican, and is now pretending to be a “Democrat who’s Party Left Him”?

    At least one!  But I covered that yesterday, and wanted to get the newest information out — as I said, There will be spinning…

  8. 8.

    H.E.Wolf

    I’ll be checking Electoral-Vote.com tomorrow AM for a summary of Michigan’s results. They usually put up their daily blog post ~ 9 AM Eastern Time… and they’re usually the most reasonable and non-panicked bloggers around. (Unless blogger V is writing; he’s more of a pessimist than blogger Z.)

  12. 12.

    dmsilev

    @Mousebumples:

    Question – why was Obama not on the 08 primary ballot? I probably knew that once upon a time, but I don’t recall.

    It was something to do with the scheduling conflicting with DNC rules at the time, so the primary was ruled to be nonbinding or something like that. Clinton stayed on the ballot and of course won; some of her more fanatical supporters tried later on to argue that the Michigan vote (and I think one other state) “proved” that she was really the winner of the primaries. To be clear, then-Senator Clinton herself wasn’t making these arguments, it was the “PUMA” crowd.

    (It’s been a while. Details are fuzzy in my mind. Take with all due grains of salt)

  15. 15.

    Citizen Alan

    @Chris:

    (Unrelatedly, also my favorite Gary Oldman role).

    One of the most fascinating things to me about The Fifth Element is that I can’t recall another film in which the main hero and the primary villain (the Great Evil was just a big ball of energy, after all) were almost completely unaware of each other. Dallas and Zorg never had any scenes together, Dallas went the whole movie without any idea who Zorg was, and Zorg, IIRC, knew nothing about Dallas except his name and the fact that he had won a free ticket to the star liner. Dallas played no role in Zorg’s death (he was killed by an angry, dying tertiary villain who was trying unsuccessfully to take out Dallas), and Dallas seemingly had no idea whose ship he was stealing to escape the doomed space liner. Really a strange and whimsical relationship.

  16. 16.

    Brachiator

    Also noteworthy: the organizers have said their goal was 10K uncommitted votes. If uncommitted is over 20K they’ll claim victory by doubling their target when reality is the total is usually 20K

    I have no idea how any amount of uncommitted votes could be a “victory,” but since it’s a primary I am not that concerned about any protest vote.

  17. 17.

    Jackie

    To add to the muddle, a Michigan judge tells QAnon idiot she’s no longer in charge of the Michigan GQP party:

    A Michigan judge ruled on Tuesday that, contrary to her claims otherwise, Kristina Karamo is in fact no longer the chairperson of the Michigan Republican Party.

    Kent County Circuit Judge Joseph Rossi on Tuesday granted a preliminary injunction against Karamo, prohibiting her from acting as chair. Karamo has refused to give up the title, even after the Republican National Committee officially recognized her successor, former congressman Pete Hoekstra, this month.

    Karamo, a QAnon conspiracy theorist who ran unsuccessfully for Michigan Secretary of State in 2022, swiftly became disliked by the Michigan GOP after being elected to the chair, presiding over catastrophic financial collapse and intra-party fighting that led to a physical brawl between officials.

    Despite Hoekstra being selected to replace her, and despite former President Donald Trump endorsing Hoekstra’s chairmanship, Karamo went so far as to lock Hoekstra out of the servers that would help him manage the party, triggering a succession crisis.

    Rossi’s ruling came four days before Hoekstra and Karamo were set to hold dueling conventions in different parts of the state. It was not immediately clear whether Karamo’s convention would proceed after the judicial decision.

    Michigan is holding its primary Tuesday, but only some of the Republican delegates will be awarded as a result. The rest will be doled out based on the results of caucuses held at the Michigan GOP convention Saturday.

    More at link:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/02/27/michigan-primary-election-2024-campaign-updates/#link-PTTBEONVLJENFJCWK2R5P3ZRNA

  18. 18.

    Hoppie

    It’s such an important primary, DailyKos Elections doesn’t even have  a LiveBlog going.  Watch what people do !

  21. 21.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    Radio news just made it sound like the Muslim communities in Michigan are taking a stand against Biden, making it sound like TFG is going to get their votes.

    I won’t point out how stupid that is if they are actually voting that way. I’m sure that TFG is really going to care about them when he’s President…lol

  22. 22.

    Chris

    @bbleh:

    I remember LGM doing a post on some theorist of capitalism or other, can’t remember who (think it was one of Loomis’ obituaries). But halfway through they describe the theory that made him famous, and I’m like “holy shit, that’s Zorg. That’s the bad guy from that zany science fiction movie I loved as a kid. We really are ruled by supervillains, aren’t we?”

  23. 23.

    Eduardo

    @dmsilev: You remember the drama the way I do, and the other state was Florida.

    I don’t remember quite well whether Hillary herself was trying to count FL & MI, too.  Let’s be honest, she tried to win in any way that she could including some really far-fetched superdelegates rebelion.  (Like Obama would win more delegates in the primaries and caucuses and then she would run the score with the super delegates and she would be the nominee.  Pretty wild lol.

    Yep, she tried to seat those delegates that she “won” in MI and FL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Michigan_Democratic_presidential_primary#:~:text=Clinton%20%5Bsays%5D%20that%20the%20Michigan,should%20re%2Ddo%20the%20primaries.

  24. 24.

    Chris

    @Citizen Alan:

    Yeah, I noticed that. Apparently they were supposed to meet on the cruise starship in the original script, but then it got changed. This works better, if only because it’s so unusual in this kind of film.

  27. 27.

    Jackie

    Question: MSNBC is showing 117 delegates for Dems, but 16 delegates for GQP. Is that a typo? Or why the big difference?

  28. 28.

    NotMax

    If truth in advertising was a criterion the R ballot choices would be:

    Uncommitted
    Haley
    Should Be Committed

    //

  30. 30.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Unrelated to MI: Why the fuck do the weirdos in the GOP care so much about Biden getting an ice cream cone? They say it isn’t manly. Like they would even know what manly is.

  32. 32.

    NobodySpecial

    Ah, Matty Y., wrong as ever. Ballooning out leftie criticism of the Democratic candidate isn’t a predisposition to the left, it’s a convenient excuse for the fascist press to bag on the Democrats.

  34. 34.

    Hoppie

    Detroit Free-Press declaring Biden winner.  Surprise, surprise.  Currently just under 80 % for Joe, about 15% in.

  36. 36.

    dmsilev

    @Omnes Omnibus: Please remember that the International Communist Conspiracy to Sap and Impurify Our Precious Bodily Fluids included children’s ice cream. It’s all connected, man.

  37. 37.

    NotMax

    @Jackie

    On Tuesday, Michigan will hold a state-run presidential primary. Democrats will use the results of this contest to allocate their delegates to the national convention.

    The Republican process is expected to rely on a combination of the primary results and the outcome of a GOP convention set to be held on Saturday.

    The Michigan Republican delegate allocation will happen on Saturday in two steps:

    The state committee will formally award the state’s 16 statewide delegates based on the results of Tuesday’s primary. According to party rules, the delegates will be awarded proportionally, with a 12.5% threshold required to win delegates.

    The state’s congressional district delegates (the remaining 39 of the state’s 55 delegates) will be awarded by votes of conventiongoers from each congressional district. These convention attendees are party activists who were previously elected earlier in the process. The general public cannot vote at the convention. Source

    Thing is because of the R party schism in Michigan there will be two competing conventions on Saturday, each claiming legitimacy.

  41. 41.

    citizen dave

    @Omnes Omnibus: Among hundreds of facts of this absurd era of the Orange Man and our nation, the comeback is to ask them why they idolize a man who uses pancake ORANGE makeup, every day of his life.

  42. 42.

    smith

    Will wonders never cease — it looks like “Judge” Cannon just made a couple of rulings against TFG.

  43. 43.

    Jeffro

    the headlines from our snooze media re: Michigan are already ridiculous

    BIDEN PREVAILS BUT STRONG SHOWING FROM “UNCOMMITTED”; TRUMP DEFEATS HALEY (WaPo)

    BIDEN AND TRUMP WIN MICHIGAN PRIMARIES AMID DISCONTENT IN BOTH PARTIES (NYT)

    The actual vote percentages, you ask?

    Biden 79%, all others (including the blessed ‘uncommitted’) 16%

    Trump 66%, Haley 30%

    tell me who’s the stronger candidate going into this election, hmmm?

  46. 46.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is coming under some heavy criticism after she showed off her freezer full of ice cream during the coronavirus outbreak.

    They always try to make a mountain out of a mole hill tan suit

  48. 48.

    EarthWindFire

    @Omnes Omnibus: Stupid but not surprising. Conservatives have been weird about Dems and food forever. Obama and his mustard, Biden and his ice cream cones. Apparently the conservative manly meal is the DJT special: burnt steak with ketchup and at least two scoops more ice cream than anyone else in a BOWL.

  51. 51.

    Jeffro

    @Jay:Isn’t one of the “Gaza Protest” vote org’s “leader” a Republican Palestinian who voted for TIFG, ran for office as a Republican, is still registered as a Republican, and is now pretending to be a “Democrat who’s Party Left Him”?,

    I’m tempted sometimes to pretend that I’m a “principled conservative whose party left him” and write me some op-eds and letters to the editor.  Or hell, even just run for president (since apparently if I do that, I can’t be arrested for anything, ever).

    The funny thing is, I could make the case for principled conservative positions on a host of issues – dealing with climate change, immigration, balancing the budget on the backs of the rich – with a straight face.

    But then there’s the problem of no one in the a) GOP or b) the media giving a shit, so hmmm, I think I’ll just read a book.

  52. 52.

    Chris

    @cain:

     

    Yeah, but North Korea never did that communism to Christianity jump and Trump assures me that he and Little Rocket Man are BFFs nevertheless.

  53. 53.

    lowtechcyclist

    At least for the moment, per CNN, Trump’s broken the 60% barrier, with about 66% of the GOP vote so far.

    Biden’s got ~80% of the Dem vote so far, with Dean Phillips running about a mile behind ‘uncommitted.’

  54. 54.

    Scout211

    I was about to comment in Cole’s post but it disappeared.  I guess there was big footage going on.  But he has some righteous rantage in his post for tonight, so stay tuned.  😊

  55. 55.

    Anoniminous

    @dmsilev:

    Sterling Hayden, the actor who played Brig. Gen. Jack Ripper, was in the OSS during WW 2 and fought alongside Communist partisans in Yugoslavia.   He was given the Order of Merit by Tito.  He was so impressed by the Communists he joined after the war.  During the McCarthy Era the FBI told him to denounce the CPUSA and name names or he would go to jail and lose custody of his children.  He kowtowed.  Later he would write, I don’t think you have the foggiest notion of the contempt I have had for myself since the day I did that thing” in his autobiography.

  57. 57.

    Splitting Image

    @Ksmiami:

    they hate sex, beer, drag shows, modern medicine, books, Disney, Hollywood, most Americans, tacos and dogs. Did I miss anything?

    The Super Bowl.

    If more liberals embraced the Bible, they’d hate that too.

  58. 58.

    BlueGuitarist

    @Jeffro:

    ftfnyt
    “President Biden confronted his most significant challenge in Michigan…Donald J. Trump…coasted to victory.”
    Oy vey

  59. 59.

    Jeffro

    @smith:Will wonders never cease — it looks like “Judge” Cannon just made a couple of rulings against TFG.

    She desperately wants to hold on to the case, so that she can continue allowing delay after delay for trumpov (and eventually, throwing it out)

    If it goes to another judge/court, it’s out of her hands.

  61. 61.

    Ken

    I find myself moderately curious whether the event in Sam Robinson’s tweet managed to keep to their timetable.

    Just kidding, there’s no way they kept everyone to two- and three-minute speeches. I’m really wondering which of the speakers went over by the largest percentage.

  63. 63.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Ksmiami:

    they hate sex, beer, drag shows, modern medicine, books, Disney, Hollywood, most Americans, tacos and dogs. Did I miss anything?

    Yes, of course you did, but it’s not your fault. The list is a LOT longer than that, no way one person could keep track of it all.

  64. 64.

    VFX Lurker

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:

    Radio news just made it sound like the Muslim communities in Michigan are taking a stand against Biden, making it sound like TFG is going to get their votes.

    I won’t point out how stupid that is if they are actually voting that way. I’m sure that TFG is really going to care about them when he’s President…lol

    I figured that was going to happen. It doesn’t matter why any of these voters voted “uncommitted” — the folks who report the news will spin it in favor of the orange criminal.

  65. 65.

    Jeffro

    @BlueGuitarist: this is exactly how they’re spinning it and it’s just fucking ridiculous.

    “retread former POTUS essentially running as an incumbent, against a challenger with no real hope of winning, still only pulling 2/3 of the GOP vote…MAGNIFICENT!”

    how about asking “WHY?”, snooze media?  WHY is it that trumpov isn’t pulling HUGE, dare I say Biden-esque numbers with the GOP faithful?  What are the challenges there?  What does it mean for November?  And most of all…could it get worse for trumpov?

  66. 66.

    Jackie

    @Omnes Omnibus: I saw that. People were quick to show TIFG publicly eating a popsicle and the sainted Reagan eating an ice cream cone.

    Faux ain’t got nutt’n else…🤷🏼‍♀️

  67. 67.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Anoniminous: ​
     

    During the McCarthy Era the FBI told him to denounce the CPUSA and name names or he would go to jail and lose custody of his children. He kowtowed. Later he would write, I don’t think you have the foggiest notion of the contempt I have had for myself since the day I did that thing” in his autobiography.

    Have to forgive a guy who knuckled under to the threat of losing custody of his kids. I’d do the same for mine.

  69. 69.

    Bill Arnold

    @Jay:
    Gen. Ripper: Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk… ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake, children’s ice cream.
    It is well known in some circles that fluoridation of the water supplies is a mass attack on human third eyes.
    Enjoy this quy, on a golden throne:
    Fluoride, Third Eye and the Conspiracy Against Humanity (Youtube, Jul 4, 2016, 8:00)

  72. 72.

    Mousebumples

    @Omnes Omnibus: Unrelated to MI: Why the fuck do the weirdos in the GOP care so much about Biden getting an ice cream cone? They say it isn’t manly. Like they would even know what manly is.

    Idk either, but they’re losing votes in the dairy state, I’d think.

    Related, I’m going to see if I have any Culver’s in the freezer to celebrate tonight’s Bucks beatdown. (The Hornets have 41 points in 42 minutes of basketball.)

  73. 73.

    Scout211

    AP has Marianne Williamson ahead of Dean Phillips right now.  Will Phillips get a clue?

    Phillips 2.7%

    Williamson 2.8%

  75. 75.

    Anoniminous

    @Jackie:

    Each National Party HQ decides how and how many delegates are awarded and when.  I don’t know why Michigan has 55 this year.

  76. 76.

    Jackie

    @NotMax: Ahhh! Thank you!
    Now I can focus on despite uncommitted numbers being higher than I like, Biden’s (so far ✊🏼 on wood) beating TIFG – thanks to Nikki! 😁

  77. 77.

    BlueGuitarist

    @Jeffro:

    from the tweet thread AL posted up top

    8) Here’s hoping the headlines haven’t already been written that whatever happens in Michigan today will show Trump’s strength and Biden’s weakness, but I’m not optimistic.

    You’’re right.
    They are sticking with their prewritten narrative though it looks ridiculous.

  81. 81.

    VFX Lurker

    Wow. MSNBC really sin’t interviewing anybody but “uncommitted” voters.

    Like he’s winning the state with almost 80% of the vote.

    There’s gotta be SOMEBODY to interview that’s a Biden voter.

    — Count QuarterBlacky @groove_sdc, 6:31 PM · Feb 27, 2024

    Anne Laurie called it: There will be spinning…

  85. 85.

    Jackie

    @Jeffro: I’m celebrating quietly; awaiting final tallies before I get loud and rowdy!

    I want Biden to beat TIFG AND Haley to beat the Dems Uncommitted.

    I think the R uncommitted is beating Dean Phillips 😂

  89. 89.

    dr. luba

    @Mousebumples: Michigan wanted to be one of the first states to vote, rather than be much later in they cycle, where the primary didn’t matter.

    DNC said no.  Michigan held the primary anyways.  Obama stayed off the ballot, like Biden did in NH th1s year.

  92. 92.

    Jeffro

    @VFX Lurker: isn’t it amazing that no one in the snooze media seems to be able to find Biden voters?

    like, EVER?

    It would be an all-time stunt for Biden/Harris to put some of their voters on a bus, send the bus to an Ohio diner, and then have footage of all of them looking around from their booths asking “well…where’s MY New York Times interview?”

    Totally serious here.  DO IT, Dark Brandon!!

  94. 94.

    Chris

    @Jeffro:

     

    I said something similar in 2016. You would never have known from the media coverage that the biggest voter bloc in the primary was Hillary Clinton supporters. Bigger than Sanders, bigger than Trump, bigger even that all the Never Trumps IIRC.

  97. 97.

    El Muneco

    @Citizen Alan: Just last week, WhatCulture did a stream on “Villains and Heroes who never met”. Some more obscure flicks and stretches to fit the category, but also in addition to “Fifth Element”,

    • Death Wish
    • No Country For Old Men
  98. 98.

    Warren Senders

    @Anoniminous:

    Sterling Hayden, the actor who played Brig. Gen. Jack Ripper, was in the OSS during WW 2 and fought alongside Communist partisans in Yugoslavia. He was given the Order of Merit by Tito. He was so impressed by the Communists he joined after the war. During the McCarthy Era the FBI told him to denounce the CPUSA and name names or he would go to jail and lose custody of his children.

    He wound up taking his kids traveling around the world for a couple of years on a schooner. I know his daughter; apparently it was a pretty amazing upbringing!

  103. 103.

    Anoniminous

    @Warren Senders:

    He was a real war hero.  The fighting in Yugoslavia was vicious, nasty, and bloody, much much worse than the fighting in the 1990s.  No quarter given by any side.

  104. 104.

    wjca

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:  I’m sure that TFG is really going to care about them [Muslims] when he’s President.

    Oh, no question that he’ll care.  The question is whether he will express that by deporting them (and to where), or will he just set up concentration camps to dump them in?

  109. 109.

    Subsole

    @cain:

    We certainly need to give the Israeli right the middle finger.

    The bitter irony about the Great Palestinian Nose-Cutting is that most Dems have been eager to chuck Bibi, ever since he started pissing on Obama. We’d probably be pretty damn sympathetic to them, if they hadn’t decided to stand up and loudly proclaim they were willing to fuck everyone over – including their own children – on the altar of their spite.

    They can’t even deign to address our worries that their strategy would do that. So far as I know, none have. We have to address their grievances, everyone else can get fucked.

    Point that out and you get glib bullshit, snark, and insults.

  112. 112.

    Steeplejack

    I’m sort of half watching MSNBC’s primary coverage, and Steve Kornacki tossed off a line about Dearborn’s “large Muslim population” and the threat to Biden of the “undecided” votes. I realized I hadn’t seen any actual demographic numbers and decided to do a little quick research. Wikipedia article on Wayne County.

    Wayne County has a population of about 1.8 million. Dearborn’s population is about 110,000. No information on religion in the Wikipedia Dearborn article, but the Wayne County article says the county at large has “an estimated 67,775 Muslims with 38 congregations.” Later the article says, “Altogether, 43.3% of the population was claimed as members by religious congregations, although members of historically African-American denominations were underrepresented due to incomplete information.” So maybe roughly double the number of Muslims to include the unrepresented people? That gives you 135,000-155,000 Muslims in the whole county, or about 8% of the population.

    I’m not trying to minimize the dissatisfaction of the protest voters, and I’m not saying they’re all Muslims, but I sort of feel like this could be another case where the media has been overemphasizing the threat to Biden. I guess we’ll see as the rest of the results come in.

    . . . And now Kornacki at the big board is saying that in Dearborn “undecided” is at 56% vs. 41% for Biden. I didn’t catch what percentage of the total vote is in. But we’re talking about small numbers overall.

  115. 115.

    Subsole

    @moonbat:

    “Smooooooke yooooooouuuuuuu!!!!”

    …

    “Wrong answer.”

    God, the comedic timing in that movie was just immaculate.

     

    Also the constant refrain of people inflating what they just did.

    “We bagged the guy. Wasn’t easy, but we got ’em.”

     

    And of course, who could forget

    “Supergreen.”

  117. 117.

    Citizen Alan

    @moonbat: Literally the only thing I’ve ever liked Chris Tucker in. If he’d had any sense, Tucker would have pushed for a sequel that focused on Ruby Rhod.

  119. 119.

    Chris

    @Anoniminous:

    The WWII fighting set the stage for the nineties fighting (not that it started in WWII either).

    The Serbians basically did a 1.0 run of what Putin’s doing in the Ukraine today, what with “they were the Nazis a couple generations ago, therefore it’s OK that we’re the Nazis now, and also we’re just going to keep calling them Nazis as we ethnically cleanse them.”

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