No reason given, but to me it looks like “no one is above the law” isn’t exactly true, if you read the fine print.
Here is the ruling. https://t.co/1oRTjOJNau
— Mueller, She Wrote (@MuellerSheWrote) March 25, 2024
Hopefully Omnes or one of our other BJ attorneys will be able to explain why it isn’t what it appears to be. I certainly hope they can.
Full text:
Open thread.
Update: This is the clearest summary I have seen yet.
Update:
Financial fraud: Appellate grants in part his motion for a stay of asset seizures by lowering the bond requirement to $175 million. He has 10 days to post it and cannot borrow from NY Institutions. The full judgment ($464M + interest) stands pending appeal.
Election…
— Jack E. Smith ⚖️ (@7Veritas4) March 25, 2024
.
geg6
This is totally fucked up. Does this say what I think it does? That everything except the monitor is stayed, pending the pennies on the dollar disgorgement, until the appeal is adjudicated? WTAF?!?!?!
B1naryS3rf
Two systems of justice, blah blah blah. I’m not at all surprised. There are powerful vested interests at all levels who want this fucker back in the big chair.
Randal Sexton
Feh. After he is convicted of something and sentenced to X years, he gets to bargain it down to 0.369 * X years, for REASONS . (0.369 = 175/474)
Frankensteinbeck
@geg6:
Dunno. $175 million is a Hell of a lot, apparently more than Trump has, but he might be able to get a loan that big in 10 days.
debit
I feel like I’m living in a GRRM series where the shittiest people do the worst things and never suffer a single second of remorse or pay for the things they’ve done in any way. And the last novel where justice and/or karma might happen is never going to be finished.
Melancholy Jaques
The only consolation is that interest is running on the judgment.
The appeals will take, what, three years at least?
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
I’m not surprised. He had appealed. On the news, they said they might defer collection of the full amount until the appeals were dealt with.
Frankensteinbeck
What does ‘perfecting the appeal’ mean?
Omnes Omnibus
Reposted from below: I think we can take the reduction in the bond amount as a sign that the court of appeals thinks that the penalty was probably too high and will reduce it. The ten days of extra time are likely to be because Trump would have been looking for a half a billion and people who would not consider that might consider $175 million.* The rest of the stay is pretty standard.
Judgments get reduced on appeal quite often. I would not get overly concerned about this. It isn’t the best news, but I don’t think it is something nefarious.
*I hope not.
B1naryS3rf
If one of us owed the government $200, they’d spend untold dollars collecting it, but this motherfucker gets cut a break…again. Doesn’t matter if he just keeps delaying justice, they can hold scary figures over his head forever, he laughs and mocks us.
scottharris
@Frankensteinbeck: it means he has to file his appellate brief no later than July 8 so the case can be argued in September 2024. Otherwise, he could have delayed filing his appellate brief (delaying oral argument and decision)
Mr. Bemused Senior
Meanwhile [WaPo gift link, the hush money trial]
lowtechcyclist
The bummer is having to wait another ten days to see if he can come up with $175M. I was really looking forward to seeing the hammer fall TODAY. Or at least seeing how he was going to miraculously produce $464M.
TBone
I am not giving these fuckers any more of my attention today. It’s rainbows and butterflies for me for the rest of the day. TCM here I come.
Even better: Dishing with Julia is on. Her boeuf bourguinon episode.
Scout211
Thank you. It’s very helpful to put the legal aspects of this apellate ruling into perspective.
I very much appreciate your comments here.
Jeffro
I’m so fucking sick of this.
We should have thrown him into a dark dungeon on the morning of Jan 7th, and been done with him.
WaterGirl
@Mr. Bemused Senior: It’s not a hush money trial, it’s election interference. The hush money was part of the scheme to interfere with the election, as was the false paperwork which engender the 43 or so felony counts.
No need for us to use their framing, which lets people blow it off because who cares if he slept with a hooker.
Not yelling at you, just a the press that pushes the framing as hush money. I don’t think we need to help them along. :-)
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus:
So EVERYTHING was stayed?
It’s not just the monetary amount that was stayed?
The only good news is that he got a shorter clock in filing the appeal?
Mr. Bemused Senior
@WaterGirl: well, to be fair, it was the fraudulent payment that is the first act. I used the short hand, but I take your point and I agree, the motivation was the election.
UncleEbeneezer
@Omnes Omnibus: Thank you for weighing in with a reality-check. I’m trying to stop building up Christmas Day expectations for the one, final day/moment of Judgement/Justice, on this stuff, for the sake of my sanity and to avoid despair. I try to assume there will be some sort of wrinkle to every big event, when it comes to Trump’s legal affairs.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: Most things were stayed. Again, not unusual in an appeal.
UncleEbeneezer
@TBone: Wise decision. The only thing we can do to undercut the attempts to manufacture constant disappointment/outrage is to recognize it for what it is and tap out. Better for our spirits and mental health, which is ultimately better for our ability to be productive in our efforts to defend Democracy, re-elect Biden etc.
Eolirin
@WaterGirl: Not a lawyer but that seems normal to me? Everything should have been stayed except the financial monitoring if it was going to appeal, I would think. Because the appeal could reverse the judgment, you wouldn’t want the penalties to go through before that’s concluded. Reversing the penalties could be messy if not impossible.
My understanding is that if Trump can post the new lower bond amount he gets to appeal. If he can’t, and he still only has 10 days to do so, he doesn’t and then the stay goes away because the appeal goes away.
Butch
Every place I’m looking the reaction is anger. Do the courts know? Do they think they’re immune from public opinion? I guess the answer is yes.
Lapassionara
I’ll be interested to see TIFG’s reaction. Will he be grateful? Does he know how to express gratitude? Or will he keep whining?
Baud
@Eolirin:
No, he gets to appeal regardless.
Melancholy Jaques
@Butch:
Yes they are and for the most part they are supposed to be.
Melancholy Jaques
@Omnes Omnibus:
I did not follow of Trump’s cases very closely, so I’m curious what his assignments of error will be.
The NY Appellate Division will certainly understand that their ruling on liability will apply to the very large NY financial community. Damages, on the other hand, who knows?
TBone
@UncleEbeneezer: Julia is an absolute delight. She lifts my spirits every time!
Villago Delenda Est
Justice is being delayed, yet again.
Scott P.
Then you are looking in the wrong places. There are plenty of rage-merchants on the left that want to make you angry in the same way Fox News does to the right, for the same self-serving reasons. Switch them off.
Eolirin
@Baud: I thought New York law precluded appeals if the bond was not posted?
Leto
@TBone: So the FX channel has a slate of movies on today that I really like. Currently playing is Jumanji. Also camping a rare NPC is my video game, so watching the movie on one screen while waiting for the prompt on my other. Beats giving this turd any more mental space.
Sure Lurkalot
In a few weeks I have to send money to the IRS for 2023 actual and 2024 estimated taxes. This isn’t the first time I have shouted to myself, “why the fuck should I?” The amount is a grain of sand in a desert compared to the sums of money the Trumps of this country have kept for themselves by fraud, deception, unjust enrichment and unbridled greed (the last of which might not be illegal but a disease curable by taking away the source of addiction).
Omnes Omnibus
OT: UN passes an immediate ceasefire resolution.
Baud
@Eolirin:
I don’t know for sure about New York, but usually the only purpose of the bond is to prevent execution of the judgment against assets. It’s not required for an appeal.
Melancholy Jaques
@Eolirin:
No, the first appeal is a right. The bond is only to delay enforcement of the judgment. The appellant must first apply to the trial court the, if not successful, to the appellate court. It is all pretty normal, as is the long time it takes to resolve appellate cases.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
👍
geg6
@Eolirin:
That’s not how I understand it. If he doesn’t post the $$, the appeal can go ahead, but the penalty can go forward. And it’s his problem if he wins the appeal and all his money is gone.
RandomMonster
He only knows whining.
TBone
@Leto: 👍
Bon appetit everybody!
debit
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s good news!
EireIAm
He gets 10 extra days to post bond, but his criminal trial is going ahead on April 15th.
Doug R
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m thinking they realized he probably only has about $175 TOTAL unencumbered at least within NY/NJ/DC.
Anonymous At Work
Places are listing the appeal as lifting the portion of the judgement removing the defendants from serving as a corporate officer. HOWEVER, this just stays that portion pending appeal, which is correct. Once the judgement went into effect, TFG would have trouble operating the TO’s shell companies, etc. because he’d not be part of them and they’d run into operating difficulties and start losing (more) money.
Overall, this reads like “We expect a Chapter 13 restructuring to occur after you lose the appeals.”
Doug R
@WaterGirl: So now I’m hearing Stormy says she was relieved when they offered her the payment because it meant they weren’t going to kill her.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@EireIAm: The criminal trial is for a different crime, right? I’m so confused.
wjca
You might want to consider two things:
1) “everywhere I’m looking” is a far cry from “everywhere”. And not just because you don’t inflict Faux News on yourself. It might be worth a quick look at places where self-styled moderates hang out. You may distain them, but they represent a big chunk of the electorate.
2) as Omnes pointed out above (@Omnes Omnibus: ) , actions like this are pretty routine. What the appeals court has done may, in their experience, very much constitute equal treatment — that is, what would typically happen regardless of who the defendant is.
Ruckus
Guys, really!
This is a guy who has “money.” But not nearly that much money. This is a guy that lies about money (and how much he has) as easily as he breathes. Possibly easier. He’s lived his entire life trying to be something he’s never been nor ever will be. I believe the word egomaniac applies here. He is THE prime example that there are things that money cannot buy. And as Omnes states, this is not unusual. Is it somewhat disheartening? Sure. He’s earned some pretty large penalties for being himself. IANAL so I have no idea if this is normal but he doesn’t have the money, and will extremely likely never have the money. If he sold off every single piece of property his name is on, he wouldn’t have the money. He’s lied about what he is and how much money he’s got, his entire life. It’s a disease and it affects him and everyone in his circle. Which many seem to be within, because enough people once voted for him to be something he was once again incapable of being.
Bill Arnold
Not gonna Pollyanna this one. This will be perceived as a win by the Trump Cult, and it kinda is.
At least
(1) The court monitoring of his finances is still in place, which will cramp financial shenanigans.
(2) His financial maneuvering room will be cramped by two large allegedly secured bonds, if he manages to get somebody to do this reduced one. Even if some hostile-to-the-USA entity is doing the “securing”, that still has costs, including possible disclosure and being “owned”(a servant relationship) by somebody else.
(3) He’s on the record for being too cash-poor, and maybe too poor, and maybe distrusted by people looking at collateral, and therefore unable to secure the larger bond; he can brag all he wants (and he has already) about how he could have, but that will be perceived by most as the BS that it is.
cain
@Omnes Omnibus:
See, this is what I like about coming here. On reddit, you’ll get a lot of shit and we have someone here who can tell us what is norm and what is batshit. Thanks Omnes, much appreciated.
TeezySkeezy
Hm.
Eolirin
@geg6: Got it.
As another question to the legal folk, if the monitor discovers additional financial malfeasance, that can get tried separately?
Jackie
Hush money trial will begin on April 15 – aka Tax Day lol
Old Man Shadow
In a country where the poor and marginalized can be murdered with near impunity by the police simply for the “crime” of existing, this constant deference to a shitty human being because he’s allegedly rich and was powerful really cranks the rage up to 11.
Anoniminous
What is not being said is appellate courts will reduce the judgement if the convicted has the money to buy the lawyer(s) to appeal. With the right connections and enough buck-a-roonies you can skip the argy-bargy and just buy the judge. If you’re one of the 78% of Americans living from paycheck to paycheck you’re fucked.
Steve in the ATL
@Scout211:
@UncleEbeneezer:
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!
cain
@Scott P.: The anger is because for anyone else who isn’t rich – we would have had to suffer the consequences. But Trump is literally proving the Prosperity Gospel as true.
mrmoshpotato
@debit:
I have a feeling you just described Game of Thrones. Oh I would’ve turned that off in a New York minute.
rikyrah
Election Interference trial to begin April 15th
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: I wonder about that myself.
Omnes Omnibus
New York Times Pitchbot
@DougJBalloon
I just watched several episodes of “Dog the Bounty Hunter”. Here’s how I think Trump can make bail today….(1/23)
cain
@Omnes Omnibus: The fact that the U.S. abstained tells a LOT.
schrodingers_cat
I wonder how many peddlers of doom on the left are on Kremlin’s payroll. They want us to feel frustrated and then disengage from politics. Focusing on all the minutaie of the Orange One’s many cases is not a fruitful endeavor IMHO
Thanks to BJ lawyers for keeping it real.
wjca
From some perspectives, that we prefer a little reality to blind rage. Unlike, say TIFG’s cultists. And, apparently, some on the other end of the spectrum as well.
Baud
@cain:
What does it tell?
Thor Heyerdahl
https://mastodon.social/@GottaLaff/112157257564638829 (I’ve done the bolding)
geg6
@Scott P.:
People have every right to be pissed over this. Do you think you’d get this kind of deference? How about a working class black single mother?
Fuck this shit. I give up on the justice system. We don’t have one. Justice is apparently for rich assholes only. Forget it if you are a normal person.
rumpole
@Omnes Omnibus: What’s really troubling about it is not the result so much, but the lack of explanation. Abba’s brief is terrible, but the one thing that the AG said that (IMO) was dumb was to suggest to the appellate court that they had no authority to stay execution of the bond unless that was crystal clear. (Apparently, it’s not and if it is there’s truly something rotten afoot).
Engoron’s ruling was very careful: as much as he could, he relied on the credibility of witnesses to shape the record to prevent his being overturned. I don’t know if there’s any merits-based-tea-leaf reading to be done. But if you look at the cases that she cites in her brief (Sauter is a good example) what she’s asking for is not out of bounds, but that’s a case under the federal rules. There, the defendant was dead to rights under the Sherman Act, but the bond would have killed his business before the appeal ran out. The court reduced the amount and imposed conditions: much like here, as the monitoring should prevent looting.
If the discretion exists per the CPLR (and it burns my ass to say this), the appellate court probably got the law right here. But it would have helped its credibility a lot to issue a full written opinion explaining its reasoning.
trollhattan
Evidently Wimpy had it correct the whole time: “I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamberder today.”
I’m starting with the folks holding the 2nd on the house, then rounding back to the 1st folks. Hope they like doggie chew toys.
Scout211
LOL. Well, we all hang out on an almost top 10,000 blog on the regular. Does that answer your question?
Leto
@Steve in the ATL:
Apes strong together!
Jackie
@Omnes Omnibus: I take some comfort that TIFG be given ten extra days to find $175M, probably means he doesn’t have that amount in cash on hand. So TIFG is still going to be holding out his MAGA hat begging for alms.
If after 10 days TIFG still can’t come up with the bond will be telling. As in his billionaire acquaintances don’t think TIFG’s going to win the presidency come Nov so there’s no incentive for them to throw away their own money.
rikyrah
@Omnes Omnibus:
thanks for the explanation.
rikyrah
This has been on my mind for awhile.
Can anyone answer this.
Where is Imma?
Did he announce that he was leaving BJ?
TBone
@Thor Heyerdahl: 💙 thank you. Not watching on TV or anywhere but here today.
Cacti
Crime/misconduct pays when you’re rich and white.
There has never been a time this wasn’t so in this country.
Omnes Omnibus
@rikyrah: I see him on Twitter quite often.
EireIAm
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Yup, totally different. I think that’s the Stormy Daniels hush money trial. The one that the FBI tried to screw over by dropping 20K+ records on the defense last week or something.
dirge
This is incorrect, unless I’m somehow misreading the text of the court order in the post above.
cain
@Baud: U.S. relations with Israel ain’t that great – usually the U.S. vetoes any resolution from the UN preferring to work with Israel directly.
Ksmiami
@Jeffro: yep. I think America is beyond broken at this point. And I doubt we’ll ever get back to normal
Anoniminous
Left wing rage merchants stop coal companies from sending 8 year olds into the mine shaft to contract Black Lung Disease.
Right wing range merchants do this.
Note the similarity
rikyrah
@Omnes Omnibus:
do you have his twitter handle? Wanna look him up
Eolirin
@Ksmiami: Authoritarism, but just from our side, isn’t a solution to the brokenness of America ffs.
cain
@cain: There is this as well:
cain
@Anoniminous:
It would be nice if you added a content warning for that link some of us may not have the mental health function to see such imagery.
UncleEbeneezer
What is also going unmentioned here is that Trump requested a stay on his criminal trial for Prosecutorial Misconduct and that stay was DENIED. Very good news. And it can’t be appealed.
wjca
This resolution passing is basically an attention step. A smack up side the head that US support is close to disappearing, if they don’t get with the (humanitarian aid at minimum, and probably the ceasefireas well) program. A big escalation over just telling them we’re losing patience.
Anoniminous
@schrodingers_cat:
Since you are so knowledgeable about the US Left you should be able to provide a brief discourse about the uses of IWW Direct Action tactics during the CIO organizing drives in the 1930s and how the IWW connection was used to smear the CIO as “under the control of Moscow.”
Eolirin
@Anoniminous: Left wing rage merchants don’t stop shit. They actively get in the way of the people doing the work to make things better.
trollhattan
@cain:
He’s such a pissy little tinpot dictator. Too bad his pissiness is getting 10s of thousands killed.
Eolirin
@Anoniminous: You are engaging in a category error.
schrodingers_cat
@Anoniminous: I have no idea what your comment means.
Manyakitty
@Omnes Omnibus: thanks for this. Hope you’re right, as I’m using your take to talk myself and some non-juicers off the ledge right now.
Ruckus
@debit:
The shittiest people DO do the worst things. That’s what makes them the shittiest people.
And sure $175 million is not $474 million but that was never going to fly. Because he doesn’t have it, and no one is going to give it to him, which still wouldn’t be enough if they did because that’s not a gift, I believe it would be a payment. What would he owe someone who gave him that much? And even if he sold off his properties, who is going to pay him a half a billion in a very few days, with zero expectations of getting not one dime in return?
This is a human being who seems to think that everything in his life revolves around his monetary valuation. (And in his case it actually might because what else has he got to show?)
Manyakitty
@WaterGirl: AGREED! Message discipline matters.
Mai Naem mobile
I’m disappointed but I still don’t think he can come up with the $175M, especially with the judge being the master of TFG’s companies. I don’t think he can come up with much more than $20M and I have a feeling that would be a stretch. He also needs to keep on paying the lawyers for all the other cases which at the least will eat up all the GOP fundraising proceeds. Dumbass should have sold a lot of his properties while he was POTUS. He could have sold them to foreign companies who thought they could curry favor with him and then actually not do anything for them. He’s just a really crappy crappy businessman who’s learned nothing from past financial mistakes.
FelonyGovt
Unfortunately, it’s ever thus, that the wealthy can engage in lengthy, costly litigation, waging a war of attrition and delaying the ultimate result for years. As Omnes explained, large awards are often reduced on appeal. I try not to get too involved in the minutiae of TIFG’s various legal matters, too jubilant about the initial awards or results, or too down about things like this.
Mai Naem mobile
I think the Dems really need to hammer home the message about TFG being a national security risk with all his debts. It’s a big win even if all it accomplishes is Haley voters staying home.
TBone
@Ruckus: campaign funds (RNC+), GoFundMe and other constant money begs. Plus the shit $ that’s still under the radar re: espionage/Pooty.
TBone
@Mai Naem mobile: 👍
JBWoodford
@RandomMonster: With barely perceptible apologies to DJ Khaled and T-Pain:
All he does is whine, whine, whine
No matter what
Got grievance on his mind
He can never get enough
And every time he step up to the mic stand everybody gorge rise up….
Captain C
@cain: I think Bibi may have gotten the message that the Biden Administration is beyond tired of his shit.
rikyrah
Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) posted at 11:54 AM on Mon, Mar 25, 2024:
.@ElonMusk gets his case thrown out of court. Judge rules that the purpose of the suit by the self-proclaimed “free speech absolutist” was “punishing the Defendants for their speech.” https://t.co/ZMraKe5fuN
(https://x.com/JuddLegum/status/1772306036814164314?t=iY_ZNQTLl8CVDMEM4dVKHA&s=03)
Old Man Shadow
@cain: “Please don’t threaten us with a good time.”
sdhays
@Ruckus: Why should his ability to pay have anything to do with the amount he owes?
Leto
@FelonyGovt:
Then the laws need to be rewritten to reflect this new reality of: it doesn’t matter that the trial judge is following the current guidelines, we’re just going to make up shit as we go. Did the trial judge follow the legal guidelines established in award of damages? If yes, then proceed with the judgement. If no, adjust. Idk, this is a frustration that most of us have because again… it’s opaque and it’s not equal justice. Same ole same ole.
rikyrah
BRICS (@BRICSinfo) posted at 11:54 AM on Mon, Mar 25, 2024:![]()
President Donald Trump calls for peace between Israel and Gaza.”
JUST IN:
“We’ve got to get to peace, you can’t have this going on. Israel has to be very careful because you’re losing a lot of the world, a lot of support.”
https://t.co/raNBuyAmuH
(https://x.com/BRICSinfo/status/1772306066438545827?t=D-92ZFQhHQKCqb1DxZq0qg&s=03)
rikyrah
UH HUH
Citizens for Ethics (@CREWcrew) posted at 0:00 PM on Mon, Mar 25, 2024:
Allies of Leonard Leo have mounted an offensive against DC Attorney General Brian Schwalb, the man investigating Leo’s dark money network.
The campaign—led by conservative media, members of Congress and other AGs—just goes to show Leo’s massive influence. https://t.co/JNdJ0GJdS9
(https://x.com/CREWcrew/status/1772307575070986384?t=XiHnCSWaNx4dDAbgrmFVLA&s=03)
RandomMonster
@JBWoodford: Nice!
FelonyGovt
@rikyrah: He’s unbelievable. Didn’t he say just days ago that American Jews who vote for Democrats are disloyal and “should be ashamed” of ourselves because we’re not showing sufficient support for Israel. Got it.
Josie
@dirge:
Nope. I read it over several times to be sure, and you are correct.
rikyrah
Tennessee Senate Democrats (@TNSenateDems) posted at 10:01 AM on Thu, Mar 21, 2024:
NEW: Senate Republicans passed their bill to vacate @TSUedu’s board of trustees. Tennessee’s only public HBCU has been underfunded by $2B over time.
Sen. @CharlaneOliver says this meddling may also disrupt the college’s presidential search by discouraging good candidates.
https://t.co/f2ExXXvttj
(https://x.com/TNSenateDems/status/1770828113024323688?t=_JTmhkxamkleMiJ-nkaswQ&s=03)
Baud
@rikyrah:
He probably thinks Biden is about to accomplish something and wants to take credit.
WaterGirl
@Doug R: Wowser, I haven’t heard that.
Melancholy Jaques
@Bill Arnold:
There is nothing about this that is a win for Trump.
WaterGirl
@rikyrah: Thank you!
Every time I see it called the hush money trial it feels like I am being poked in the eye.
Anotherlurker
@RandomMonster: In light of this slap in the face to all but MAGATS, The Orange Traitor will be strutting and crowing like a Bantam Cock on Viagra.
The IRS is coming after me for $300.00 but this scumbag gets handled with kid gloves .
2 tiered justice, indeed.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@WaterGirl: I will be careful going forward.
WaterGirl
@rikyrah: I talked with Imm maybe 3 weeks ago? He is well, his son is well, I don’t believe he’s made any decision to leave BJ. Just busy, I think.
But I will ping him again.
cain
@Old Man Shadow:
Bibi is probably taking up throwing ketchup at the walls now too after hearing about the abstain vote. ;-)
Coupled with the sanctions on settlers – I think the Israeli probably get that we are collectively sick of Bibi.
cain
@rikyrah:
Fixed – and fuck this title that makes it look like he’s presidential and still president.
Jackie
@WaterGirl:
Absolutely! The MSM needs to remind TIFG of that “little tidbit” along with their viewers/readers. HE WAS THE ONE INTERFERING WITH THE 2016 ELECTION – and him whining about this trial is his ONUS!
Mai Naem mobile
This is the piece by the lawfare guy who wrote about Aileen Cannon’s clerks resigning. There’s more nuance in the story beyond the ‘Aileen Cannon’s clerks resigning!!!’ headline. https://davidlat.substack.com/p/clerking-for-judge-aileen-cannon-why-clerks-quit
cain
@rikyrah: They are losing their collective minds and going full on totalitarian freakout.
FelonyGovt
@WaterGirl: Please do tell him he’s missed. I’ve been wondering about him as well.
Ruckus
@Leto:
Beats giving this turd any more mental space.
You give this turd any mental space?
And yes I do know/understand he is in the public eye because of the crappy 4 yrs he served as whatever the hell he was supposed to be, wasn’t it the leader of something? I mean bang up job he did.
WaterGirl
@Mr. Bemused Senior: I hope you know that you don’t need to be careful just because I said something.
But if you agreed with my thinking, then I will be very happy if you decide you want to use the election interference framing instead of the lazy media’s framing.
Leto
@Ruckus: we’re all here talking about him, so yes, he’s in our mental space. Trying to keep it as minimal as possible. Time to walk the dog.
rikyrah
@WaterGirl:
THANKS.
Glad to hear that nothing is wrong with Little Imma.
davek319
Reprinted from Digby, if anyone missed it. Stakes. Not odds. FTFNYT. Guardrails are made of paper and bamboo.
West of the Rockies
This is a annoying.
But it is ultimately just noise.
He will lose and die soon enough.
We need to GOTV, stay alert, fight-fight-fight.
Don’t get overwhelmed and manipulated to distraction from the goal. Eyes on the prize.
rikyrah
Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) posted at 11:10 AM on Mon, Mar 25, 2024:
Spokesperson for New York AG James:
“Donald Trump is still facing accountability for his staggering fraud. The court has already found that he engaged in years of fraud to falsely inflate his net worth and unjustly enrich himself, his family, and his organization. The $464…
(https://x.com/kylegriffin1/status/1772294923489833270?t=9PYWn4736SZD-u1u8KCvSA&s=03)
rikyrah
Bob Cesca (@bobcesca_go) posted at 11:19 AM on Mon, Mar 25, 2024:
Trump just did to the state of New York what he’s done to countless subcontractors: claiming poverty and getting away with paying a fraction of what’s owed. It’s been 40+ years of this scam, and yet stupid people keep falling for it.
(https://x.com/bobcesca_go/status/1772297261482971546?t=iO2N-xNk_ABi_nsl1Ujl5w&s=03)
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus:
This seems to be lawyerly consensus on bluesky as well.
Madeleine
@rikyrah: thanks for asking about Imma and the Immp. I miss him,too, and hope he’s busy in good ways.
Barbara
@geg6: So can you put your mindset in a non-Trump universe and understand why that outcome might not be strictly fair?
Ever since I realized that the majority of the damages in this case are punitive, I assumed that the amount would eventually be scaled back.
prostratedragon
@rikyrah: Isn’t he busy today?
trollhattan
I, uh, you mean today? If not today, then not soon enough.
Baud
@trollhattan:
I blame Biden.
Mike in NC
We’ve seen over and over and over again how evil scum like Fat Bastard can get away with anything if they can pay somebody off.
Old School
@WaterGirl:
While that’s true, I assume calling it the “hush money” trial is more to differentiate the New York election interference trial from the Georgia election interference trial.
Chip Daniels
One of the things that wealth purchases, is an endless buffet of second chances, makeup tests, special exceptions, and waivers that normal people don’t get.
Which is why it is so outrageous when someone starts wanking on about meritocracy and complaining about affirmative action.
Jackie
Heh. One of the talking heads on TV reminded viewers that TIFG’s whining about the Election Interference trial is interfering with his ability to campaign, by needing to be in court four day a week, but that TIFG has only held a couple of rallies TOTAL. Unlike Biden, who’s been out across the country multiple times in the last 30 days.
TIFG is BROKE, the RNC is broke, so he can’t AFFORD to hold his precious rallies – in part, I suspect, because venues and cities are requiring him to pay upfront to cover costs – including additional police protection.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@cain: I had the same reaction to a “news” organization giving Trump that title
Jackie
And TIFG’s vengeance continues:
rikyrah
@Jackie:
Yep. cause he has a series of unpaid bills from rallies from when he was President.
geg6
@Ruckus:
“And sure $175 million is not $474 million but that was never going to fly. Because he doesn’t have it, and no one is going to give it to him”
So what makes him any different than anyone else who can’t pay a judgment or bail? No one in the court system gives a crap it those people can’t pay. Judgment happens to them. But apparently the very rich get a break no one else gets if they can’t pay?
Omnes Omnibus
I am going to walk away from the internet now.
geg6
@Barbara:
No. No I can’t. Fuck this shit. So glad I decided during undergrad that I really didn’t want to be a lawyer because I would be quitting at this point. There is no justice in this country. None. Why bother?
karen marie
@TBone: I’ve been watching the Anti-Chef on youtube. He does a lot of Julia’s recipes. It’s amazing and funny. Kind of like the pictures of perfect food next to pictures of reality.
UncleEbeneezer
@Old School: It’s also true. It is a case of Falsifying Business Documents (the actual charges in indictment) to conceal his Campaign Finance violation from voters. So it really is both a Hush Money and an Election Interference case. The former being the means for attempting to achieve the latter.
Maybe the best way to frame it is as a “Hush Money To Interfere With An Election” case.
karen marie
@Butch: Do you really want courts of law making decisions based on feelings? I don’t.
The Thursday afternoon Lawfare videos are terrific at providing an understanding of the sausage making. I ignore the loud complaints of the uninformed.
Geminid
@Jackie: Virginia 5th CD Rep. Bob Good endorsed DeSantis, and Trump henchman Chris LaCivita said that by the time they got through with him, Good would be “unelectable.”
Good already has a strong primary challenger in state Senator John McGuire. Kraven McCarthy is backing McGuire because Good was one of the 8 Republicans who helped vote McCarthy out of the Speaker’s chair.
The primary is in June. It’s an R+8 or 9 district* so unfortunately, Democrats probably won’t capitalize on this fight. Fun to watch though.
* VA05 extends from Charlottesville and Albemarle County south to the North Carolina line.
Ruckus
@TBone:
Yes – and it still isn’t working for him is it?
This is a person that values money above ALL else. Not working out all that well for him is it?
@sdhays:
What?
If he does not have the ability to pay, how does he satisfy the judgement? This is a legal judgement, he’s in trouble if he doesn’t pay. As it should be. But if he doesn’t have the money, he can’t pay the judgement, unless someone lends/gives him money. And he’s an old fart. Older than this old fart. He is never going to “earn” the money, likely never going to find the money, and so what happens next if he can’t pay this rightful judgement? A monetary penalty? That he won’t be able to pay? How does that solve anything? He thinks he can get away with anything.
Listen, I have nothing for him. I don’t feel sorry for him, I do not like or approve of him nor his crapola. I think he is and always has been a worse than useless human being.
To answer your question – if he does not have the ability to pay, he cannot satisfy the judgement. And he’s the 8 yr old, in a what, a 78 yr old body that thinks his shit doesn’t stink nor that he should have to do things that other humans have to do when they screw up and get caught. He’s not in any way special.
And on that note, how many people do you know that have had to pay a fine for doing the level of crap that he has? I’ve worked in professional sports, traveled around this country, on occasion had to deal with people who thought their shit didn’t stink. They are wrong, 100% of the time, it does. It always does. SFB is no different, not one bit. He has screwed up, on a reoccurring basis, just by being himself. He has screwed over other people and has zero remorse or concept that he actually done so. He seems to think he is above the law and above common decency – and he isn’t. He got caught and is in the fuck around and find out stage. He likely will never admit that but what likely is pissing him off is that he does actually know, and the penalty is not insignificant.
sdhays
@Jackie: As others have said before, there are other reasons Trump may not be getting in front of that many crowds these days.
Even if they can afford them, someone needs to organize them, and they’re all tripping over themselves trying to protect Trump’s ASSets rather than run a campaign. But even more critical: his dementia is getting worse, so his minions want to keep his public exposure for long periods of time to a minimum.
Old Man Shadow
@geg6: There is no such thing as justice. No karma. No god. No Judge.
Bad people get breaks because of privilege. Good people get shot multiple times at a traffic stop and then get slandered in the media as deserving it.
He will die free. He will get a biography from the official press that is reverential. He may even become president dictator next year. Probably get airports or highways or schools named after him. Maybe even a few statues because that is how America works
And during all of that, innocent people and children will die in mass shootings. Young women will be killed by abusive lovers and husbands. Young Black men and women will continue to be shot by police or railroaded from school to prison. Migrants will be denied help and sent away from America. Homeless people will still suffer without help.
WaterGirl
@Old Man Shadow:
You don’t know the future any more than I do.
But I do know that what you’ve written is doom porn, and anyone who buys into that won’t do a fucking thing to work toward making sure that’s not the future.
Self-fulling prophesy.
No thanks.
WaterGirl
This is the clearest summary I have seen yet:
WaterGirl
@WaterGirl: The part you can’t see (after show more) is:
catclub
That stay order is very confusingly written. I thought items 2-5 were being enforced by the order, but now I think they are stayed.
I think a clear version would be: If a bond of $175M is paid in ten days, then the following terms of the judgement are stayed pending appeal: items 2-5.
Mel
@TBone: I hear that!
I’m making rice pudding and a chicken potpie and then hunkering down to watch “The Reluctant Traveler”. Comfort activities for trying times.
The Thin Black Duke
I think it’s vital to our mental health to recognize there’s no One Weird Trick that’s gonna take out Trump before November. Each of us will do what we can because– unfortunately–we also recognize that surrender is not an option.
Quinerly
@rikyrah:
I have been wondering too.
Tony G
@Frankensteinbeck: I wonder whether that deadbeat can come up with a bond for $175 million. If he can’t, then I guess that the appeals court will lower it again. This insane court ruling is a good illustration of the fact that the corruption in this country isn’t limited to the “red states”. The courts and other institutions of the government are totally corrupt throughout the country.
Chris Johnson
If he also can’t come up with $175 million it’s a moot point whether he could have come up with half a billion, isn’t it?
The thing from apparently Digby, above, was sure interesting and speaks to fascist intent. I would just add this ONE little teeny detail… to execute on that, they have to use loyal Trump FAMILY MEMBERS. Fucking everywhere. They have to cover firstly the Republican Party like a blanket, then the country: all the Eric Trumps and Kari Lakes and so on and on, all of them, dredge the gutters to come up with enough of them, and then they’ve got to perform.
They have to execute, using Trump and his people as the only available weapon.
I’m sorry, I don’t buy that it’s a real threat. These people are evil, but they absolutely suck.
I’m with Omnes (and Jack Smith, apparently). This is the stupidest time imaginable to panic, unless you’re Trump.
Layer8Problem
@Chris Johnson: I’d be more worried if the other side had a lot more post-WWI Weimar style Freikorps instead of flabby cosplay militia guys and unctuous religious nuts. Yeah, worrisome, but not impossible to counter.
Old Man Shadow
@WaterGirl: I don’t know the future, but he’s slithered out of consequences this far and the system sure as fuck seems to want to help him continue to do so and appears stacked that way.
You and I both know ordinary people don’t get treated with kid gloves by the “justice” system like this.
TBone
@karen marie: I will check that out, thank you! Julia’s penchant for being casual about mistakes and flair for silliness is part of what is endearing to me and anything “anti” is right up my alley 😉
TBone
@Mel: that’s some serious comfort food yum!
WaterGirl
@Old Man Shadow: I agree that the special treatment of Trump is maddening, and goes against everything the US is supposed to stand for.
But that’s a far cry from the dystopian future you described, and I for one am not ready to give up and go rock in the corner.
WaterGirl
I think this is a good way to look at it.
WaterGirl
And this:
.
WaterGirl
@WaterGirl: Full text of George Conway tweet above:
Miss Bianca
@The Thin Black Duke: I’m with you on this one.
Layer8Problem
@WaterGirl: ” . . . I for one am not ready to give up and go rock in the corner.”
And boy do they want us to. Discouragement and morale-breaking beats riot suppression and “insurgent” round-ups.
Old Man Shadow
@WaterGirl: Well, he might not win this November.
But given the other people certain parts of this country has “honored”, it doesn’t seem like much of a stretch to imagine a statue put up in Florida or Texas naming a high school after him.
Nor does it seem unreasonable to assume the media that continues to normalize and treat Republican extremists like reasonable politicians will give Trump a haigiography whenever the fuck Death stops killing kids with cancer and mass shootings and collects Trump.
It’s not fucking right. Hence there isn’t a natural order of justice in this universe. Nothing is fair.
We try to impose some small bit of order, some little corner of what we consider to be good and fair and right on the universe and it feels as if our best efforts still fail more often than not.
The fact that this asshole, this traitor, this abyss of a human soul is in the position where we even have to worry about him gaining power again is fucking rage inducing as is the inability of our government to hold him accountable.
Yeah, he still have to pay 175 million, but that seems more within his reach and the process gets dragged out by years while he edges closer to escaping without penalty.
lowtechcyclist
@cain: Fine with me!
Quadrillipede
Hmm, failing to post $175M might arguably more damaging for the “reputation” of a “billionaire” than failing to post $450M. I guess all this popcorn should be good for another ten days.
On a more serious note, looks like it’s going to be the vote in November that finally drives a wooden stake through this orange vampire’s heart…
I hope he’s degenerated into full-on Führer-in-the-bunker Downfall raging incoherence by that point. I heard that’s playing really well in the swing state suburbs atm.
Manyakitty
@The Thin Black Duke: absolutely.
dirge
Surely you’re not just figuring this out now.