You are seen and you are loved. š³ļøāš
Happy International Transgender Day of Visibility! pic.twitter.com/xrSUbEjC3B
ā ABS-CBN News (@ABSCBNNews) March 31, 2024
The original International Transgender Day of Visibility was organized (in Michigan) in 2009, but President Biden’s White House was the first to issue an official proclamation noting it. This year, because the Christian liturgical calendar is lunar-based and therefore shifts every year, TDOV and Easter fall on the same day. Cue the manufactured outrage from the Wingnut Wurlitzer…
Growing up a religious Catholic, who went to church twice weekly I understand that Easter changes every year and transgender visibility day always occurs on the same date.
This is just making stuff up to be outraged about . https://t.co/4VVeLcBlVY
ā Andy Kaczynski (@KFILE) March 30, 2024
Trump, of course, thinks of Easter as a(nother) way to celebrate his favorite form of personal redemption, affinity fraud…
āSo I said to them, āLet any who have gold take it off.ā So they gave it to me, and I threw it into the fire, and out came this calf- which can be yours for the low, low price of five easy installments of $19.99ā https://t.co/t68a6p7qZE
ā Russell Moore (@drmoore) March 26, 2024
Iām not saying heās the antichrist, but if God was real and sending someone to test Christiansā¦ well, he couldnāt be more obvious about it. https://t.co/piVg5tkULP
ā Jean-Michel Connard ??? (@torriangray) March 27, 2024
.@SykesCharlie: It’s Holy Week and Trump decides to grift off the sale of his own Bible. Heās raising money off of it to help pay legal bills related to his troubles with a porn star. You can’t be serious pic.twitter.com/qMj4LtUt66
ā Biden-Harris HQ (@BidenHQ) March 27, 2024
In case you forgot, and now that Trump is stooping to selling bibles, hereās Sarah Cooper and her amazing rendition of Trump bibling.?? pic.twitter.com/tjgFuESieP
ā ??Laurie (@Laurieluvsmolly) March 30, 2024
War for Ukraine Day 766: Russia Continues to Threaten Ballistic Missile and Rocket Attacks
Baud
Mike in NC
The biggest laugh is anybody thinking that Fat Bastard gave a damn about Easter, or the Baby Jesus, or anything remotely related to Christianity or religion. His handlers just gave him a script to read from. Pathetic.
Ohio Mom
There are so many different versions and translations of the Christian Bible, I wonder which one Trump (well, his underlings) chose. Obviously the cheapest ā I think the Protestant version is shorter than the Catholic, then there is the question whether it is both Testaments or just the New.
ETA: As a Jewish person, I have no doubt just demonstrated a more extensive knowledge of the Christian Bible than Trump could begin to imagine.
Chetan Murthy
@Ohio Mom: IIUC, the KJV, bc that’s what the evangelicals claim is the One True Version.
Jay
@Ohio Mom:
the free on line King James Version.
Jacqueline Squid Onassis
Iām wondering how visible I should be tomorrow. Ā Will something like lightly frosted glass be a good look or should I go with fully opaque while Iām at the aquarium?
v
@Ohio Mom:
Gotta be both, right?Ā Otherwise they can’t get their boner on for, y’know, prohibiting eating shrimp, pork, mixed fiber garments, Teh Ghey [sic], and all that.
ETA: oh right, only one of those; the rest are alright, my bad.
coin operated
This atheist approves this message…
Spanky
@Chetan Murthy:
@Jay:
These two comments should be married.
Yutsano
@Jacqueline Squid Onassis: Whatever you decide, don’t forget to make it fabulous!
EDIT: It’s your day after all. So feel free to own it!
dmsilev
@Mike in NC: That’s for sure. He pretty much is the embodiment of all seven of the deadly sins, and can lay a strong claim to have violated all Ten Commandments. Not sure about the ‘honor your parents’ one; theyāve been gone for a while so itās hard to say.
dmsilev
@Ohio Mom:
Watch that Sarah Cooper video in the last Tweet. Itās obvious he doesnāt know the difference.
Doc Sardonic
@Ohio Mom: The King Jimmy version what has the words in the Kingās English just like Jesus spoke them. also because it is public domain and royalty free
Ohio Mom
@Chetan Murthy: Yes, of course.
Mathguy
@dmsilev: She does a terrific job of capturing his confusion.
v
@Ohio Mom: ah here we go: https://www.rawstory.com/raw-investigates/the-overlooked-detail-in-trumps-bible-sales-pitch/
Citizen Alan
Well, duh! That’s all the republican party has been for at least the last quarter century! Cleek’s Law, and all that.
Scout211
Some of these things I did not know.Ā Tweet
Scout211ās daughterās birthday. Ā š
RFK, jr tried to claim Cesar Chavez as someone who would have supported his campaign and would have voted for him. Ā The family has pushed back.
bbleh
Interesting thing I’m seeing is, it’s not just a (predictable) Wingnut Wurlitzer issue, it’s also something for Very Concerned Moderate Centrists to tut-tut about. Ā “Well clearly Biden simply doesn’t care about the Christian Community the way he should, because it’s such an insult. Ā Really, it’s a terrible own-goal, and one that really concerns me!”
Mmmm, the Grievance, strong it is with them!
Melancholy Jaques
@Chetan Murthy:
The website biblegateway has over 60 Bible versions available online.
The choices include:
Some day I will pick a few passages and see how much they differ.
mrmoshpotato
@Scout211:
Apparently we’re celebrating this with dinner tomorrow!
zhena gogolia
I prefer the King James because itās great poetry but it is far from accurate
Melancholy Jaques
@zhena gogolia:
How would anyone know what is accurate?
Librarian
@zhena gogolia: Accurate in comparison to what?
bbleh
@Melancholy Jaques: Aw, quite apart from deciding what’s “real” and what’s not (eg various stories about Jesus being added long after the fact), the translation issues are substantial. Ā And at least a lot of the NT was written in (deliberately) simple Greek. You get into the OT and … ???! Ā Literal Word of God indeed.
dmsilev
@bbleh: Tomorrow, the Very Concerned Pundits can tut-tut that Joe and Jill Biden didn’t attend church “the right way” (whatever they did, it’s wrong. Because.) and probably there’s also going to be something Wrong about the all the kids searching for Easter Eggs on the White House lawn.
\Trump, I assume, will celebrate Easter in the manner of his ancestors, by playing golf.
bbleh
@dmsilev: it is meet and right so to do. Ā Amen.
Melancholy Jaques
@bbleh:
I don’t consider it possible for the Bible to be accurate in the sense of the text reflecting reality. The Gospels don’t even agree with each other on important points.
LikeĀ @Librarian: I’m asking does accurate mean a correct translation from some source? What source? How does anyone know if the source had another source? The earliest copy of the New Testament is from the 4th century.
Princess
Unlike Trump, Biden will go to church tomorrow morning.
bbleh
@Melancholy Jaques: and while Mark probably was written around 60AD (that’s quite a while after the death of Jesus), even the other Synoptic Gospels weren’t written until later, in part drawing on Mark, and other books were written later still! Ā And those we call the NT were agreed upon by a bunch of guys hundreds of years later, while others were excluded because Reasons.
And that’s the one we know a lot about. Ā The OLD Testament … oy!
NotMax
Cue Mike the TV.
:)
@Scout211
Also too, World Backup Day.
sdhays
@Princess: Thatās unfair. Trump considers his time on his golden toilet āchurch timeā.
He very piously spends time there every day.
Spanky
@Librarian: Accurate in comparison to the original scrolls, written in Greek. Apparently, the KJV translators took liberties that they maybe oughtn’t have.
Don’t ask me details. I’m no expert.
Mousebumples
On topic with Transgender Day of a Visibility tomorrow –
Thanks (from this cishet white woman) for all you have taught me and shown me over the years. It is not your job to teach me how to be a better ally, and I appreciate you. It might be the Midwest Nice in me, but I get nervous about awkward! and am afraid of asking Dumb Questions to the trans people I know in Real Life. (and I ask plenty of Dumb Questions about political stuff here, so maybe I’m less worried about making you all look at my silly at this point? Lol)
Though I suppose things can get awkward on a blog, too, but the point still stands.
And if my pharmacy knowledge brain can help in return, ask away.
NotMax
@sdhays
Arrgh. Now have “Golden Helmet of Mambrino:” from Man of La Mancha. running through the head,, transposed to “Golden Toilet of Bedminster” (that locale because the scansion works).
Gretchen
@dmsilev: the wing nuts are complaining about the guidance that kidsā submissions of Easter eggs not have any religious symbolism, blaming it on Bidenās supposed hatred of Christians. Even though the guidance is from the Egg Board, sponsors of the event, and has been in place for 45 years.
Jacqueline Squid Onassis
One of the difficult things trans folks are facing these days are liberals who proclaim their opposition to book banning while also asserting that the fact that trans people exist isnāt an appropriate thing for kids to know. Ā Itās been an energy drain dealing with that lately. Ā Itās been lonely being the only one, in the threads Iāve been involved in, pushing back against that. Ā None of the liberals has chimed in against that odious and harmful position.
dmsilev
@Gretchen: Sigh. And I _thought_ I was joking.
Jacqueline Squid Onassis
@Mousebumples: You can ask me anything, Iām an open book. Ā As long as youāre making the effort, itās not awkward with me. Ā I canāt say I speak for all of us – Iām old, after all – but at least I can give an answer from my perspective.
NotMax
@Gretchen
Do Chinese restaurants have a special on Easter egg rolls?
“They’re stuffed with Peeps and jelly beans.”
//
Ben Cisco
Your attention please.
The Alabama Crimson Tide is headed to the Final Four!!
Carry on.
RevRick
@Ben Cisco: Oh, the next team from which UConn will take its soul.
strange visitor (from another planet)
@NotMax: points for the ReBoot reference.
RevRick
For those who donāt know who Russell Moore is, heās the former president of the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention. He was forced out for expressing alarm at the alignment of Evangelicals with Trump.
Mousebumples
@Jacqueline Squid Onassis: Appreciate it. I think I’m good for now, but I’ll keep that in mind. ā¤ļø
rikyrah
You are seen.
You are loved.
You are us.š
rikyrah
The Bibles are the way for churches to launder money to the Orange Menace.š š š
Percysowner
TFG called on President Biden to apologize to āCatholics and Christiansā for having Trans Visibility Day on Easter. Thatās right guys you once you get rid of all of your mutual āenemiesā you will then turn on each other and march yourselves back to the Middle Ages.
RevRick
@Spanky: The King James Version was probably the greatest work a committee has ever produced, combining what was the best available scholarship at its time with an elegance of language seldom matched.
I use the New Revised Standard Version, which is far more faithful to the original texts, but at the cost of felicity of language. But no text is ever accurate, for as an Italian proverb goes, āThe translator is a traitor.ā
There are, after all, a multitude of problems presented by the words themselves, which may have no exact corresponding words. The word atonement, for instance, is a neologism of at-one-ment, an attempt to convey a Greek understanding of an Aramaic word into English that has veered way off its original meaning.
Take for instance, the Hebrew name, El Shaddai, which is translated as God Almighty. But it can also be plausibly translated as āGod with breastsā, given its usual context of nurturing images.
West of the Rockies
Republicans have a monkey on their backs, a serious addiction:Ā it’s called resentment.Ā Ā They are only happy when they’re angry.
What a shitty way to go through life.
RevRick
@bbleh: The earliest ābookā of the New Testament is Paulās First Letter to the Thessalonians, written about 45 CE, about 15 years after the fact.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Percysowner: WTF is there to apologize about?
randy khan
Speaking of Easter, we’re around the anniversary of when Trump said in 2020 that Covid would die down in time for people to go Easter services in person.
I truly think that one of the causes of all of the Covid denialism is the way that Trump minimized it again and again even as it got worse and worse. Ā That’s part of what convinced people it was a hoax.
Quiltingfool
I worked with a woman who had an English lit degree with an emphasis in Shakespearean literature (Ag chemical firm, go figure). Ā One day I mentioned that I struggled with the language in the KJV; I could read it and get most of it, but some of it went over my head. Ā She said that her studies of Shakespeare really made reading the KJV much easier. Ā Made sense to me considering when the KJV was translated. Ā The style of writing Ā was appropriate to people in that time.
wjca
And written by someone who hadn’t been there.Ā And had views which strike me as antithetical to what the faith had originally been about.
HumboldtBlue
Seeing as though we are celebrating cool people, here’s a ridiculously cool music video.
If Bach Wrote The “Cantina Band” Song (Star Wars)
Torrey
@Melancholy Jaques:Ā āĀ The KJV is a very political text, and there are a number of cases where it was carefully translated so that it fit His Majesty’s political interests. There are a few good books (pun noted but not intended) on the construction of the KJV and the politics involved: Nicholson’s God’s Secretaries, Bobrick’s Wide as the Water, Moore & Reid (eds.) Manifold Greatness. There’s also a problem with the particular text from which the KJV was translated, the “textus receptus.” It’s not considered the most reliable. There’s a YouTuber who goes under the name of “magnify” who has some pretty accessible examples, although I don’t think he deals with the textus receptus issue.ā
ETA: I see RevRick got there first with some good examples. Even the choice of the translation of ekklesia as “church” poses some interesting problems.
Quiltingfool
@Percysowner: Huh. Ā Catholics and Christians. Ā Once again, that horrid man displays his utter ignorance. Ā Seems he thinks that Catholics arenāt Christian? Ā Then again, one of his evangelical buddies told him they are the only evangelicals are Christians, wouldnāt surprise me.
Torrey
@Quiltingfool:Ā
āĀ Heh. I grew up in a very King James-y church. The one good thing I got from it was that, when I was prepared to read Shakespeare, I found I had already learned that version of English.ā So it works both ways.
Urza
I see everyone mentioning the original Greek and Hebrew for the Bible but never mentioning that quite a few books were originally in Aramaic.Ā Related to Hebrew but definitely not the same thing.Ā And it was hard for much of the 20th century to translate from those originals.
Urza
@Quiltingfool: Many Christians, especially evangelicals don’t think Catholics are Christian.Ā Antichrist is a common term for the Pope.
mrmoshpotato
@Ben Cisco:
@RevRick:
Hehe.Ā Most likely.
mrmoshpotato
@rikyrah:
QFT!
mrmoshpotato
@West of the Rockies:
Also QFT!
wjca
Not surprising, since Jesus, and his disciples, were native speakers of Aramaic.Ā If you want an idea of what was realy said, you pretty much have to go back to that.Ā (If only to do a reverse translation, to see what the Greek text you are looking at probably said originally.)
Melancholy Jaques
@RevRick:
I thought it was Galatians. Sources are not in complete agreement.
Melancholy Jaques
@Torrey:
I’m kind of familiar with all this. That’s why I asked how anyone could say that any version was accurate.
m.j.
@Quiltingfool:
Most of the original Nazis were Catholic.
He should show more respect.
Martin
I think I’m the only human who remembers this but many elections ago one of the GOP debates took all questions from voters and one was a guy who held up a KJV Bible and asked the candidates if they would on stage proclaim that book to be the the actual truth, or some shit like that, and everyone seemed super confused by the question when it was *extremely* clear to me once I saw it was a KJV Bible what this guys angle was. He wanted them to denounce other versions of the Bible.
We really minimize what motivates the right. That guy was in no way an outlier.
Origuy
There are a lot of words in the Bible, particularly in the Epistles that appear nowhere else in known writing. In linguistics, these are called hapax legomenon.
eclare
I think TIFG read about Easter in, as he put it, Two Corinthians.
For those who do not know, there is no such thing as Two Corinthians.Ā It is called Second Corinthians.
Frankensteinbeck
@Jacqueline Squid Onassis:
Geez, seriously?Ā I’m glad I’m not frequenting those places.Ā While I know everyone here agrees, just to be specific, of course it’s appropriate for kids to know about trans people.Ā It’s intuitive to kids.Ā Boy turns into a girl?Ā Boy was secretly a girl inside and now gets to be one?Ā (And the other way around, girl was actually a boy, of course.)Ā Sure, this is standard fairy tale stuff.Ā Only adults think it’s weird.Ā Heck, not sure what you really are, and need to find out?Ā That’s their life.
Kids didn’t choke on Tip becoming Ozma a hundred years ago, and they find the concept just as easy and obvious today.
eclare
@Jay:
Yes.Ā King James is public domain.Ā TIFG would have had to pay for the New International, which I believe is the most popular.
Always look to the money to find the logic behind any question.Ā Always.
West of the Rockies
@Percysowner:
Catholics are Christians
Not that that’s a compliment….
Sister Golden Bear
@Mousebumples: Dumb Questions welcomed. With the caveat that when you’ve heard one trans person’s experience… you’ve heard one trans person’s experience.
@Jacqueline Squid Onassis: I haven’t encountered that myself, but sadly it doesn’t surprise me.
As for my feelings about TDOV this year, a Kiwi friend of mine put it well: “I should say something about Trans Day of Visibility, but Iām just tired of it all, whÄnau. The same problems as last year, but worse. The manufactured outrage over it landing on the same day as Easter Sunday. The same politicians using us as political mileage to play to their thuggish followers.” We just want to be left the fuck alone and live our lives.
Mokum
@Urza: the german Pope was considered a great intellectual, whathis name, Ratzinger. He said that only the catholic church was a church āin the true sense of the wordā. So both sides and allthat applies in this case, for once.
SectionH
Srsly late. Oh well.
In recognition of Trans Awareness day (late, sorry) Ā Mr S and I were counting the trans people we do know personally and we’re only around 5, 6, 7? I knew at least one woman he doesn’t remember. Which is fair enough because we spent a few years trading jobs off. But add friends whose friends are trans, which is many more. But more visibility is better, dammit.
And srsly belated shout-out to Janey Godley (she of Trump is a Cunt fame) because she has been fighting against JKbitch and all the TERFs and yeah.
opiejeanne
@Percysowner: You’ll notice that he separated Catholics from Christians which is something nasty that some Evangelical and Fundamentalists have been doing for years.
SectionH
It was her sign. https://janeygodley.com/2016/06/28/welcomed-trump-scotland/
SectionH
@Frankensteinbeck: Tig! Tig > Ozma was just Ā natural. Ā Mr S read your comment to me and I went way back in my childhood, and you’re right – kids don’t care. I always did like Ozma (!) but Ruth PT – I loved Betsey and Trot too, esp. Trot. (The Giant Horse sez, “I’ll trot slower for Trot, though I’d much rather not. I can pace, I can race, I can canter a lot.”)
Yeah, written a long time before I was born, but that was a universe worth perusing. And I think Ruth did it amazingly well.
mrmoshpotato
@SectionH: I’d forgotten.Ā God bless her.
Eolirin
@Frankensteinbeck: I wouldn’t be so sure everyone here agrees with that position. Though thankfully no one’s gone so far as to have said so directly, at least where I would have seen it.
Some people have gotten pretty close in the past though.
mrmoshpotato
@SectionH:
Who have you all been talking about tonight?Ā Google fails me.
Eolirin
@mrmoshpotato: It’s Tip, not Tig, I think. The Wizard of Oz books. Princess Ozma is the ruler of Oz.
sab
@Eolirin: My mother (born 1928) read all of those, and it was one of the joys of my childhood to come north from Florida to visit Ohio grandparents, and get to read Mom’s childhood books up in the attic. Full set of Oz books. I loved them.
SectionH
@mrmoshpotato: TY! I’m a Struan Roberson: we never forget.
TBone
@eclare: Heather Cox Richardson tackles this today.Ā It’s a retread of the 2021 Lee Greenwood commemorative for the 20th anniversary of 911.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/march-30-2024
SectionH
@mrmoshpotato: Wizard of Oz? the OZ books. Frank L Baum wrote about 6, but when he tried to kill the story, the money guys wanted more and Ā I think I’ve discovered first Fanfic ever written: there are more OZ books written mostly -srsly well by Ruth Plumly Thompson than by Baum. But she was really good. Better than Baum, esp. yeah, young girls were always the main characters. and made the difference
eta: we need to discover more of her OZ books, because damn! You want Something Different: Be Nice to It – that was what those books about!
TBone
@SectionH: š
TBone
@opiejeanne: Rumpy neighbors’ son once told me there were no Xtians in France.Ā I asked who he thought the Notre Dame Cathedral was built for (it has just caught fire recently).Ā I don’t think they are aware of the existence or details of the religions of anyone but themselves, as was highlighted in the post here yesterday about NPCs.Ā They aren’t taught to care, so they just don’t.Ā Lack of innate curiousity also.Ā It’s all just so fuckin’ stoopid and they pass that down from generation to generation.
satby
@Eolirin: Agree, there’s been quite a lot that skates close to full TERF. planet eddie posts usually incite a it, and why they don’t post any longer, which is a loss.
sab
@satby: Planet eddie posts being gone are absolutely not a loss. Toxic.
lowtechcyclist
@Chetan Murthy:Ā ā
Also, it’s not copyrighted, so he wouldn’t have had to get anyone’s permission, let alone pay anyone, to use the King James translation. (ETA: Beaten by a mile, i see. :-)
Not relevant to Dump, but the fundies often refer to the KJV as the AV, the Authorized Version.
Yes, it was originally known as the Authorized Version. Why was it called this? Whose authorization is being referred to? That of King James. But they like calling it the Authorized Version because they want to make it sound like it was authorized by the Holy Spirit or some such. It probably works in environments where questioning is discouraged.
TBone
@randy khan: “Open all the churches!” I remember that so distinctly through gritted teeth.Ā Premature Resurrection, dicknose.
sab
@sab: I think JK Rowling has lost her mind, but people like planet eddie feed on her, and get undeservedĀ divisive attention from voicing in. Not helping trans cause at all.
I am pro trans, and planet eddie was extremely nasty to me. That is their thing, find a platform and stir stuff up and divide people.
satby
@sab: disagree vehemently. And the toxicity was not on planet eddie’s part.
sab
@satby: It absolutely was. All cis women were their enemy and misunderstood them and hated them. You will never win me over to their cause. Toxic. Came here and inflamed us. Fucked up her all women AA group and then bragged about it here. Who does that?
satby
@sab: Not relitigating that with you, but that is absolutely not what was stated by planet eddie, that was the recap by their detractors. Your recollection is bullshit, and TODAY on Transgender Visibility Day, I’m going to remember a friend who died last year, way before her time, her health compromised by the stress of being a trans activist under conditions of increasing hatred and attacks; some of those by “allies”.
phaser set to ignore
sab
@satby: Sorry but I have two transgender grandchildren and a two gay grandchildren and eddie’s unfortunate posting infuriated me. Implied bad intentions where there were none (cannot same the same for them.)
Huge mistake for Cole to let them on the front page here. We have excellent jackals in the comments. It is not helpful to have toxic frontpagers undercutting all their good work.
TBone
I awoke extra early to the sounds and sights of The Last Picture Show on TCM š¤£, fittingly, and now Beyonce is busting a move
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma8X2iMdv8U
TBone
Hahahaha Western Kentucky University represents!Ā Kyle Rittenhouse runaway!
https://crooksandliars.com/2024/03/killer-kyle-visits-another-campus-gets
TBone
It’s a beautiful day for schadenfreude!
https://crooksandliars.com/2024/03/alina-habba-hit-humiliating-allegations
bjacques
@dmsilev: not only has Trump violated all 10 (make that 11) and committed all seven mortal sins, but heās also working his way through the Book of Leviticus and making impressive progress!
And about 8000 years from now, the only Bible that will matter is the Orange Catholic Bible!
sab
Normal people when they are iffy on gender say they. Just because they are not her or him.
Illintioned people when they are iffy on gender do bad things. Watch the news.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@TBone: This revelation should be stunning and shocking. Why am I not even mildly surprised?
sab
@sab:Ā I just want kids safe and healthy.
Political gender trans stuff makes that awkward , just because of politics., but al that political trans stufv was just there anyway.
Those kids are still out there, and still just normal healthy kids.
sab
@satby: You are not helping them. You might be hurting them.
BellyCat
I learned a LOT from Planet Eddieās posts, especially regarding the complexity of trans peopleās challenges, and miss their posts.
Itās unfortunate that the territory is so complicated that misunderstandings even among trans supporters can easily take place.
Trans people have the right to be visible OR invisible (due to fears about safety) today, as they wish. This CIS HET male supports their journey, regardless. And for Biden and Harris to voice their support (on Easter, no less) is spectacular!
p.a.
From my readings at Fred Clark’s slacktivist: KJV, King James I authorized “his” version as a defense of royal prerogative in his struggles with Parliament and the separatist churches. Ā It was deliberately mistranslated to tilt the wording to imply support for hierarchical and executive privilege. Ā So “justice” in the (Koine Greek?) earliest versions are often KJV’ed into “righteousness”, a much more amorphous concept.
The bookĀ God’s SecretariesĀ looks at the King’s advisors choice of translators, their assignments, and discussions/quarrels before, during, and after the KJV production. Ā There were separatists included in the hopes of co-opting their sects.
jonas
King James. A literary classic, to be sure, but far from a current or accurate translation. A lot of fundamentalist Protestants considered it divinely inspired, though, or something. Trump probably doesn’t even know the Bible is translated from ancient languages to begin with.
SectionH
@satby: Yes. It wasn’t to me anyway.
@TBone: WKU? Wow!! Good on them!
OzarkHillbilly
64 at last count, which begs the question that if the bible is the inerrant word of god, why do they keep changing it?
Baud
I should translate the Bible.
lowtechcyclist
Good morning, y’all, and happy Easter to those who observe. The Lord is risen!
This Christian is personally glad to share this joyous holy day with the Transgender Day of Visibility. Whether or not you desire to be visible to the wider world on this day, I am glad of your presence here in this community.
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
Good morning and happy Easter. āļøššæ
jonas
@TBone: Both Liz Dye and Devin Stone (Legal Eagle), iirc, have both done some pretty detailed — and devastating — deep dives into what Habba did with that waitress at Trump Bedminster and why, yes, she’s in some pretty deep shit. As in being disbarred-level shit.
ETTD. E.
Ken
There is now a New Revised Standard Version Updated edition.Ā Heaven knows what adjective they’ll tack onto the next major revision. Renovated New Revised Standard Version Updated, perhaps.
NeenerNeener
@West of the Rockies:Ā And Catholics are the OG Christians. All the other “Christians” are just Catholics with attitude.
jonas
@Melancholy Jaques:
@Librarian:
There are two main issues with the KJV. First, it relied onĀ editions and manuscripts of the Bible, particularly of the Greek New Testament, that have been long-superceded now with new discoveries and better textual criticism. You can see a number of examples here of passages that appear in the KJV which modern scholarship has shown were almost certainly mistakes or later interpolations. Secondly, while the committee that translated the KJV included some very good scholars and philologists of Greek and Hebrew, they were also very consciously working under a royal mandate and made sure their language supported Tudor-Stuart ideology about church and state. And of course it also reflected the general cultural prejudices of the day around sex, gender, slavery, etc
So, while its impact on English literature and thought has been enormous, it’s not considered an “accurate” translation in many ways by modern scholarly standards.
Princess
Iām being a bit contrarian here but I gained a new appreciation for the KJV when I learned Hebrew. Itās archaicizing English stays much closer to the cadence and literal meaning of the Hebrew than any other version, and it gives a much better feel of the original as a whole (though obviously with errors in particulars). Canāt say anything about the NT because I donāt know Greek. Every act of translation is an act of interpretation.
LiminalOwl
@NotMax: Thanks (not!) for the earworm.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Melancholy Jaques: Accurate is not even possible to pin down with the same source. Translation is not an exact art. Translators make choices to try to convey the sense of the original, but words have nuances that donāt translate exactly.
Iāve heard many a sermon that was based on āthe original Greek word was X and it would be better translated this wayā¦ā
zhena gogolia
@Librarian: Okay, I missed this last night. Accurate as a translation, as I’m sure someone will have mentioned in the meantime.
LiminalOwl
@Jacqueline Squid Onassis: Iām grateful for your perspective.
FWIW, I have heard many (wish I could say all) of my liberal friends and acquaintances fulminating against the book bans and other efforts at erasing trans folks and trans visibility. Ā And the beloved and I do what we can to educate our acquaintances as necessary.
evodevo
@wjca: Yes…this.Ā The first “Christian” schism was between Paul and the church fathers in Jerusalem, who considered him a loose cannon. (These people weren’t “christian” at that time – there were no christians, there were only Jews who followed the teachings of Jesus as his original followers interpreted/remembered them, and the original pharisees, sadducees, essenes, other sectarians, etc.Ā Paul was a Pharisee.)
TBone
@jonas: š isn’t this a perfect way to start the day.Ā Making Attorneys Get Attorneys š How smart does she feel NOW?
jonas
@Princess: Robert Alter, the Berkeley scholar who has produced what many consider the most masterful English translation of the Hebrew Bible since the KJV, would agree. He has called the KJV beautiful and lyrical, owing largely to the translators’ keen literary sensibilities, but acknowledges that there are also many places where they don’t get it quite right. “There are a lot of lapses,” as he put it in one interview.
TBone
Ron Filipkowski xit:
TBone
Leslie with some reminders:
https://digbysblog.net/2024/03/30/you-need-this/
pluky
@bjacques: Thou shalt not disfigure the soul!
pluky
@evodevo: Which Paul conveniently ‘won’ when the Jerusalem church was destroyed along with Second Temple Judaism in 70CE by the Romans.
RevRick
@OzarkHillbilly: The claim of biblical inerrancy is only made by Evangelical/fundamentalists. Us mainline Protestants would call that claim idolatry.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@RevRick: And as a translator who knows that translating something into English from modern Greek, let alone ancient Greek or Aramaic, depends on context, language history, tradition, quality of the original text(1), and what the original writer had for breakfast that day, I can say there’s no such thing as a perfect translation, just closest possible approximations.
(1) I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve run into a roadblock translating a document only to discover that the original text suffered from badly mangled grammar that even a native speaker had trouble deciphering. It’s disturbingly common in the legal work I do.
Soprano2
@HumboldtBlue: Ok, that was cool!
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Why not? Thereās a LOLCat version, after all.
Fair Economist
@Urza: I wasn’t aware we had any of the original Aramaic texts, even now. There are some Aramaic texts from the Syrian church, but my understanding is they were back-translated from the Greek. It’s that some of the back-translation comes out so well (and some fixes emerge like “camel through a needle’s eye” turns into “rope through a needle’s eye”) that some of the Greek texts must have been translated from an Aramaic original.
jimmiraybob
@Ohio Mom: “…then there is the question whether it is both Testaments or just the New.”
Someone may have beat me to the punch but if one were to be left out of the “only Bible endorsed by”Ā it would be the New testament because of all the wokitude.
Also, much more rage and retribution in the Old.
Gvg
@opiejeanne: itās been done since the reformation, preceding the birth of America. In fact, a significant number of early settlers were fleeing losing the Christian civil war for at least a time. Since people believe what they want, that war never really can end, and a few years later a different side would win/lose and some would choose to flee. Different states of what would become the āUnitedā States were founded by different subsets of Christianity, with European enemies living next door to enemies. The colonists did not get along in the early days. Also subsequent waves of settlers might not be the same subset and the colonies could completely change over time. The founders would have been about the grandchildren of survivors of religious wars between Christians. And the colonies could not stand against England or any other European country without sticking together. The choice of no official church and the separation of church and state was deliberate to preserve their religions. The fools who want us to be a Christian nation would actually destroy religion if they succeeded. They donāt know history.
satby
@RevRick: Roman Catholics consider the Bible mostly allegorical, or so I was taught in my parochial school.
prostratedragon
Happens to be old JSB’s New Calendar birthday. A couple of Goldberg variations, reaaranged for string quartet, the same music that one keyboardist generally plays:
@HumboldtBlue:
One variation
Another variation
jimmiraybob
Some things don’t change.
From History dot com.
“In 1604, England’s King James I authorized a new translation of the Bible aimed at settling some thorny religious differences in his kingdomāand solidifying his own power.”
Supreme rulers will be supreme rulers.
zhena gogolia
@lowtechcyclist: He is risen indeed!
zhena gogolia
@Ken: Translators never give up!
lowtechcyclist
@RevRick:
Yeppers.
Also, the Bible is riddled with internal contradictions. And the general evangelical approach to this is to (a) ignore them as much as possible, or (b) failing that, come up with some arbitrary resolution of the contradiction.Ā And if one interpreted the Bible in general that arbitrarily, one could make it say pretty much anything.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud:
I can do that in one: Be kind to people.
All the rest of it is bullshit.
WaterGirl
@Scout211: After reading some “days” on that list, I wonder if we could get a Balloon Juice day, or a jackal day.
UncleEbeneezer
@Jacqueline Squid Onassis: Sorry to hear that. Ā I hadn’t seen these threads with people doing that with respect to book bans (though it doesn’t surprise me). Ā I try to always push back against that bullshit whenever and wherever I see it. Ā But because of work/life schedule I don’t read every post/thread here so I probably miss a lot of stuff. Ā The notion that kids can’t handle learning about the complexity of gender is just silly. Ā I think it’s the perfect time for them to start thinking about all kinds of serious and important stuff (gender, feminism, privilege, race etc.)
Miss Bianca
@Frankensteinbeck: Oh, my God…don’t remind the nutters about Tip turning into Ozma, or they’ll want to ban the Oz books next!
@SectionH: I disagree that RP Thompson’s books were better than Baum’s. They are good, tho, in their own way. (She seemed to be much more of a monarchist than Baum was, imho, anyway.)
Layer8Problem
@SiubhanDuinne:Ā Ooo, yeah, I forgot about that.Ā I wonder if they did the book of Job?Ā I’d be interested in the whole Ceiling Cat/Basement Cat interplay on that one.
UncleEbeneezer
@sab: I’m so sorry for the innocent trans grandchildren who are going to have to deal with your fragility. Ā I guarantee that if they haven’t already, once they start to become politically aware they will have to walk on eggshells with how they speak about their identity and Oppression just to avoid upsetting you. Ā And that is just sad for them. Ā I’ve known many Gay, Lesbian, Bi people who have told me about this dynamic with their family members where they always have to tone it down or be extra-careful because their family members can’t handle real talk about LGBTQ-phobia. Ā It puts a real limit on their relationship and trust with those family members. Ā It’s a real loss for the LGBTQ person. Ā Be aware that continuing with the attitude you are showing here will absolutely result in your Grandkids needing a person to give them a little support, listening, love etc., but you won’t be on that list of people who are really 100% on their side. Ā You can change that. Ā It’s not hard. Ā But it starts with stopping with this making-yourself-the-victim bullshit when Transgender People tell us hard truths. Ā It’s up to you.
Bill Arnold
@Melancholy Jaques:
Oh, it’s worth doing. I pick a few passages that translators have disputes, about, e.g.
1 Samuel 28:13
KJV: 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
(KJV is roughly correct, here, at least about the plurality of divine beings.)
Two Adulterous Sisters (Ezekiel 23) is good for this, too. (Some translations attempt to make it less racy.)
Bill Arnold
@rikyrah:
Orange Antichrist
Ella in New Mexico
I miss Sara Cooper so very much. Her comedy got me through the worst parts of Covid and Trump because she saw it right through every single one of his lies in such a hilarious way.
I miss Sara Cooper so very much. Her comedy got me through the worst parts of Covid and Trump because she saw it right through every single one of his lies in such a hilarious way.
I know she couldnāt continue to do that forever but dang I wish sheād come back some of her stuff sometime later this year for the general election.
opiejeanne
@NeenerNeener: Don’t say that around a Greek Orthodox person or you’ll get a lecture on which one is really the OG.
Jacqueline Squid Onassis
@sab: Thatāsā¦ an opinion. Ā One that doesnāt look good on you.
I miss those posts and itās clear that theyāre not here anymore because the comments were too depressing and exhausting to deal with.
evodevo
@pluky: Yep…he “grew” the Greek churches which took over Xtianity when the first Jewish rebellion failed and the original church fathers were scattered (actually I read where they left Jerusalem after James died and settled elsewhere).Ā I think their remnants were still around after 100 AD or so, but were overwhelmed numerically by the Greek church and the nascent Catholic church.
evodevo
@evodevo: Of course, the various theological sects of the now extant Xtian church spent the next couple three hundred years massacring, persecuting, and exiling one another trying, as Mark Twain said, to ease their brothers’ passage to heaven…
(See: The Jesus Wars by Philip Jenkins)
dnfree
@NeenerNeener: Members of Orthodox Churches (Greek Orthodox, for instance) will strongly disagree on which branch of Christianity is OG. Ā Some Orthodox practices go WAY back.
dnfree
@jonas: I have read Robert Alterās translations of several books of the Old Testament, and found them most helpful in distinguishing the Jewish understanding from the āChristianizedā English translations I know. Ā For new thing, the Old Testament doesnāt actually recognize the concept of a āsoulā separate from the body.
UncleEbeneezer
@Jacqueline Squid Onassis: Here’s a quick summary: There had been a bunch of instances of some very TERFy sentiments popping up whenever Trans Issues were brought up, but especially in response to a post by PlanetEddie. Ā When people rightfully called out the bullshit, pushed back on it and and tried to educate everyone (to make the space welcoming to Transgender and NB People), the commenters who started the mess with their TERF-adjacent remarks threw temper tantrums about how unfair everyone was being to them and cloaked themselves in Feminism. Ā Fast forward to a month or so later: PlanetEddie writes a long, detailed and sincere post about White Feminismā¢ and how it plays out in coalition spaces to harm Black/Brown and in this case, especially Transgender People. Ā It was a really excellent post that didn’t accuse anyone in particular of anything and had very wise words for allies who want to work in diverse coalitions. Ā But all the same people who created the first mess read it as a personal attack and pulled their same bullshit, literally taking a post about Trans/NB being marginalized by Cisgender People making these discussions all about themselves, and made the whole thing all about themselves. Ā A lot of pearl-clutching about the use of “TERF” or White Feminist.” Ā It was rather ridiculous and eventually, Cole had to step in and shut down the thread.
I don’t know the circumstances of PlanetEddie leaving the blog and having those posts removed but I know that PlanetEddie expressed extreme frustration with the way some commenters simply refused to listen/read and jumped to immediate defensive postures and antagonism. Ā Ironically, it was a picture-perfect example of the everything PlanetEddie had described in the second post. Ā To my mind, I will always chalk it up as an example of Cisgender commenters at BJ refusing to listen, and then chasing off one of our few Transgender voices. Ā And a sadly accurate snapshot of the way TERF-ism can be (and is) such a problem, even in Liberal/Progressive spaces, in 2024.
wjca
Or, as Jesus himself put it:
“All the Law and all the Prophets are this.Ā Thou shalt love the Lord your God with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself.”
Needless to say, evangelical bigots are very careful to ignore that.Ā While embracing all the nastiest bits of the Old Testament.
Jacqueline Squid Onassis
@UncleEbeneezer: Oh, I was here for those posts and comment threads and your summary is pretty accurate. Ā Any threads about trans folks is bound to be depressing and they always make me think of that great Phil Ochs song, āLove me, Iām a Liberalā.
The only thing that gives me hope is that the conversation about (cis) gays and lesbians was about at this point back in the early aughts. Ā That taught me how powerful visibility is and so here I am.
LiminalOwl
@SectionH: Baum wrote 13, I think. Ā Thompson wrote 19. Another three writers published a total of 7 (had to look that number up!)
My family part of the summer I was 9 in Provincetown, where the public library had an almost-complete set. I read all of the available onesā3 or 4 missing, I think? Ā And in high school I joined the International Wizard of Oz Club.