The leering degenerate pictured above (the one who is unfortunately still breathing) plans to issue a statement this morning on reproductive rights and women’s bodily autonomy. Here’s the heads up on the Defendant’s wildly overvalued crappy knock-off Twitter site:
Notice anything weird about that message, apart from the mindboggling presumptuousness that would inspire an amoral dullard like that to weigh in on the medical decisions of tens of millions of American women and their doctors? I think maybe it finally dawned on the halfwit that he can’t actually “negotiate” a ban at a gestational cutoff that will “make both sides happy” and bring the country “together,” as he has preposterously suggested in the recent past.
Nope, it sounds like Lumpy is starting to understand that the plurality of anti-abortion fanatics in his party won’t be content with the demise of Roe. They want abortion banned in the U.S., and that deeply unpopular mandate is a threat to their party’s electoral fortunes. Hence the bullshit about “an obligation to the salvation of our Nation” blah blah blah.
It’s fundamentally a defensive message, IMO, a plea to the fanatics not to flip the fuck out and refuse to turnout for the Defendant when he declines to commit political suicide by endorsing an unpopular federal ban or signal approval of the 6-week abortion ban that will go into effect in the Defendant’s adopted home state in a few weeks. Well, good luck with that, Lumpy. Fanatics are by definition irrational.
Open thread.
On The Road – Albatrossity – Westward 2015, week 3
Shalimar
If I had the stomach for pretending to be one of them, there is so much work that could be done demoralizing MAGA cult members into feeling betrayed by many of Trump’s policies. Add this no-win situation for him to his endorsement of Tom Emmer yesterday on the very long list.
Baud
Whatever he says will be a lie anyway. The only pertinent question is how much it helps us.
Baud
@Shalimar:
Yes. I’ve always felt I should have done that. For the country. But I didn’t.
Suzanne
Godspeed with that. Abortion is a thing that much of the crazy-ass religious conservatives will never compromise on.
Maybe one shouldn’t actively court the worst people in the country into one’s coalition.
Shalimar
Joke I saw yesterday and sent to several Trump-supporting family members (who most likely won’t respond, as they usually don’t to jokes at their expense) said “Christians warn us about the Antichrist for 2000 years, and when he shows up, they buy a bible from him.”
Baud
“To save the nation, Republicans must let babies be murdered.”
That’s the message I hope the GOP base hears. (Although who knows how they’ll react.”
Baud
@Shalimar:
👍
brantl
After he shoots off his mouth, he’s going to think he’s stepped into a woodchipper.
Baud
Maybe he’ll speak from the heart and express regret for all the abortions he’s paid for. The media would eat that up.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
They would indeed. And I suppose there’s some chance that Dump could manage a superficial facsimile of speaking from the heart. But saying anything that suggests he might’ve done the wrong thing – na ga ha pen.
ColoradoGuy
Hmm. He wrote some of that screed, but not all of it. I wonder how many bottles of ketchup ended up on the wall when that was composed. “Women’s Rights” is just about the last subject he has any interest in.
p.a.
And don’t forget: contraception is a target too. Attempts at THAT ban will really go over well!
yellowdog
They are capable of holding five contradictory ideas in their tiny little skull cavities. The evangelicals will vote for him; what other choice do they have?
brantl
@yellowdog: When you’ve got nothing in there, there’s lots of room.
satby
So I got into a discussion about abortion with a young Christian couple at the market, as one does when one doesn’t really have fucks to give about whether people buy stuff from her or not 😂
But they’re nice kids, a mixed race couple, and we had a respectful discussion. As I told them, my purpose in even discussing it wasn’t to convert them to my view, just to get them to start questioning their own. Most people are completely ignorant of embryology and are easy prey for the liars on the right. More importantly, though the anti abortion movement is very much based in white supremacy, that isn’t well known to younger people because they aren’t taught history at all. The husband was black, and when he said that at some point there should be restrictions for “abortions of convenience”, I pointed out that “convenience” is a pretty dismissive word for the crisis a pregnancy could cause for someone and that we already fought a war about controlling other people’s bodies in this country. That shook him a bit, as I meant it to, and in the end he and she both clarified their thoughts about the idea that with proper social support abortion could become “safe, legal, and rare”. They’re young, and still idealistic that people would adopt children with catastrophic medical issues, but they expressed an understanding of why that isn’t society’s decision so I took the tiny win.
The anti-abortion side has lied, and lied, and lied. Propaganda works. We need to counter it when we have an opening. (And keep a device handy to Google data.) Not everyone argues in bad faith, good faith ones can be nudged.
Ksmiami
The GOP can’t be trusted on women’s rights. Period.
Baud
@satby:
👍
Ramalama
An adjudicated rapist says what now?
I hope he keeps saying “in cases of RAPE…” causing everyone’s ears to perk up and think of E Jean Carroll, and the millions he will soon be giving to her.
Jeffro
98% of the current GOP will fall right in line with whatever he says. That’s ok, we’re not trying to convince them of anything.
The important thing is to keep pointing out to the rest of the electorate (the remaining 2% + blessed ‘independents’ + our side) that a) he has no principles other than power, and b) that his followers are lying when they say they’ll stop at “exceptions”, or “15 weeks”, or anything short of a full-on theocracy.
Narya
I want someone to ask him what he thinks of the Comstock Act.
Princess
Unfortunately I expect that most of his team who hears him “compromise “ on abortion will assume he’s lying to get votes and will continue to support him and trust he will impose a ban they life if elected. And that’s a good call on their parts because he probably will. The question is how many squishy white women who want abortion rights but also tax cuts will believe him. Again, I suspect a lot will, because they want to and their husbands want them to. He’s a con man and a really good one. This is his super power.
satby
@Narya: 😂 as if he knows.
I’ve been up since 3 am. Going back to bed now that I’m finally drowsy again.
Baud
@Princess:
Agreed. They’re not stupid when it comes to politics.
Princess
@Baud: These people — the single issue anti-abortion voters, among whom I number family members — may be “fanatics” in one sense but not in the sense that they are crazed or emotional. They play the long game. They vote strategically. They saw the judges he appointed. They see Roe is gone. They won’t abandon him no matter what he says today. They view him as their tool, not as a saint.
PST
@Princess:
Also agreed, and with the subsequent comments. Strange how a reputation as an unprincipled liar can sometimes be useful.
Ksmiami
@PST: and that’s why the Dems need to call it out for the pandering and dangerous rhetoric it is. The GOP is a threat to women’s health and liberty.
PST
I would bet that TFG’s statement, if it comes out as expected, will hurt him only with the undecideds, regardless of whatever precise line he tries to draw. Any national ban will alarm voters in the squishy middle more than any exceptions will alienate the hard core. Not only will the latter recognize a tactical, electioneering lie when they see it, as noted, but they have nowhere else to go. On the other hand, there must be at least a few voters in places like Pennsylvania who finally see the war on women’s rights as now a threat to them at home, not just an issue for Texas or Alabama.
TS
When someone tells you who they are believe them. trump will lie as necessary to win elections. The winning is important, the rest is irrelevant. He has no policies/ideas/thoughts that cannot change if they are vote dependant.
The Thin Black Duke
Bottom line, nothing has changed: the people who vote for Trump were always going to vote for Trump. This November we’re going to find out whether if women value their reproductive rights more than tax cuts, pronouns and Jim Crow 2.0.
Baud
@The Thin Black Duke:
👍
MomSense
It’s a little late to try and close the barn door now. Trump and his party support an abortion ban. They will target oral contraception, marriage equality, our LGBTQ+ community, journalists, anyone who those ignorant fucks think might be an immigrant, and more rights. They are anti modernity and will tear apart as much of the social safety net as they can. Every one of Trump’s budgets included cuts to Medicare and Social Security.
Trump is also a malignant narcissist who is not capable of empathy, although he does enjoy the suffering of others. He is in league with dictators and I think completely compromised by Putin/Russia. He will sell this country’s security to the highest bidder. That this absolute disgrace is the presumptive nominee is proof of the failure of our free press and the greed and racism of too many of our citizens who should be shamed and shunned for their behavior.
RandomMonster
His turd, or whatever they call a message on his stupid site, is also a slightly cleaned up version of an answer he gave in an interview, which Michael Steele called a word salad and commentators criticized for blatantly saying he would tell people anything because he has to “win elections”. The message is just him doubling down on the garbage he spewed over the weekend.
Hildebrand
Doesn’t matter what he says, because he won’t be driving the bus on policy if he is re-elected, he will sign whatever is put in front of him. Thus, we continue to say he is for a ban, because that will happen.
Lumpy
Please don’t start calling Trump “Lumpy” 😕
Torrey
You know, without the very specific surrounding context and the picture, I’d have had some trouble narrowing down exactly who this phrase was referring to.
hueyplong
@MomSense: Agree. We’re at the point where even the marginally attentive are hearing GOP abortion “compromise” talk the way people in 1939 heard Hitler reference Danzig as his last territorial demand.
Keep up the pressure, every day. Prosecutions, civil suits, one news story after another about impending financial ruin. Not at all sure he can make it to November without breaking down, and once doubt is firmly on their side, the rate of incoming money will slow. It will all be too much.
Princess
The media will be in a quandary. They’ll want to push a kinder gentler Trump message on abortion. But if they do that, his gang will begin to get upset and the more the media talks about whatever he says, the bigger the holes in it will seem.
trnc
I think “salvation of our nation” is a reference to white America.
Narya
@satby: exactly. But that is the R game, and it’s getting some play. Plus I want to hear him fumble.
Princess
@trnc: I agree. It’s “Let me use weasel words suggesting I’ll be tolerant on abortion because we all agree the number one issue is that I win the election.” It’s “take back America from Those people,” — but it’s also a guy who identifies salvation of America with his own salvation from prosecution.
Soprano2
@satby: I’m glad you were able to do that. It seems to me that people like this are in a quandary, because what they want is impossible to legislate. They want to allow abortions for the “good” women who got pregnant the “right” way but need an abortion for what they consider are acceptable reasons, while denying them to “bad” women who got pregnant the “wrong” way for any reason. The comment you cite by the man gives it away. I remember hearing an older woman quoted right after the Dobbs decision saying something like “Now those young women will have to be more careful about who they fool around with”. My mother thought this way.
Baud
@Hildebrand:
👍
Baud
@Soprano2:
People want the status that comes with lording over other people’s private decisions without regard to the constraints that come with public policymaking.
Kay
A national law restricting abortion isn’t a compromise – it’s a fundamentally bad deal for women who still have a full set of rights.
Abortion is already banned in red states – all this “compromise” does is limit abortion in blue states, which is a net win for anti abortion lobbyists. The status quo is blue states are free and red states are banned. This makes blue states less free and leaves red state bans in place – a net loss for women, nationally.
Soprano2
@Baud: I heard an interview with a former conservative evangelical on Fresh Air. He said they’ve decided they need a bully to help them impose their will on the American people, because people who were one of them like George W were “too nice” to get the job done.
jonas
Shorter Trump: “*wink* *wink* We’ve got to pretend like we’re kinda flexible on abortion in order to win, but you know where we really stand…”
I agree with what others have said about the Christian right assuming he’s just lying/bullshitting to win. They literally do believe deception is ok, if it’s for the greater good. There’s not going to be much blowback over this and we’ll know why.
Baud
@Kay:
Yeah the “compromise” has always been gaslighting.
JML
@Soprano2: I think you nailed it. the exceptions where the GOP wants to allow abortions are based around whether they think the woman who needs one is good enough. Are they in the club (aka, a rich person), did they have the right kind of sex, etc.
It’s vile, frankly. And they certainly can’t articulate it as law.
Baud
@Soprano2:
He’s lying. The two worst justices are Father and Son Bush appointees.
Kay
The only way a national law restricting abortion is a compromise is if one assumes this election is a choice between two presidents who are opposed to abortion – one who opposes abortion with no exceptions and one who opposes abortion with exceptions. But that’s not the choice.
This “negotiation” is being conducted entirely on favorable terms for anti abortion lobbyists – they can only win and pro freedom people can only lose.
Baud
@Kay:
Sadly, I’ve seen commentary attempting to question Biden’s commitment to abortion rights.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@jonas: Not much blowback from the Talibangelical right, at any rate. The blowback will be coming from other directions, as has been the case ever since Dobbs.
Kay
@Baud:
I think Biden is personally uncomfortable wth abortion (and that comes thru when he speaks about it ) but I don’t care because he’s not forcing his religion on us AND Democrats have tons of women in leadership (including Harris) who are great on it and they’re enough for me – better, really. I feel ably represented by the women.
espierce
His plan is out on his overvalued social “network” according to this Washington Post gift article.
Scout211
This is his big statement?!
“Breaking” story on CNN:
He should have just announced that he’s fine with the status quo.
Gvg
In some ways the Republican Congressmen are more of a threat than Trump. No President can sign a bill that doesn’t exist or get passed by both houses. People need to think about that, not just the distraction of Trump.
They refuse to do nuance.
I think we should also emphasize that Roe WAs the compromise and worked for a long time. It was actually thought about and realistic about medical conflict of interests. It may not be the best we can do, but I appreciate that they tried.
In my view, it’s should always be between the doctor and woman, but I am not inclined to compromise either, and don’t trust the fanatics anymore.
Contraception should also be specifically protected, not assumed to be safe by prior judicial rulings.
Take the opportunity to point out that elections always matter.
Baud
@Scout211:
And the crowd goes mild.
Kay
@Baud:
I think Biden’s reluctance speaks to Democrats who are further Right on this issue than I am – there are a lot of older Democratic men where I live, primarily Catholic, who are uncomfortable with abortion – and I’m okay with that. They’re part of the Party too. They probably relate to Biden on it.
Baud
@Kay:
Like you said, who cares what he thinks personally?
Mousebumples
@Kay: I had a blunt discussion with my Catholic, conservative-leaning, anti-Trump uncle a few weeks ago.
My rights, and those of my daughter, are at risk. And that’s not okay. And the laws they pass are terrible (even if you agree on the theoretical “merits”) and outlaw miscarriage care, care for ectopic pregnancy, etc.
My mom tried to play peacemaker and asked if I was listening to both sides. I asked her how much of the other side I needed to listen to, in order to learn that my civil rights weren’t being valued or protected by the Anti Abortion movement. (she didn’t really have a response to that)
Kay
This country is really, really backward on women. It’s second class citizenry. There are NO advanced countries with as restrictive laws as the US- none. We’e an outlier on hating women.
Baud
@Mousebumples:
Do they ever ask the other side if they’ve listened to both sides?
JML
@Scout211: I suppose this might be the big plan for the GOP: try to confuse people as to who’s responsible? If a federal candidate is being blamed, they say it’s a state issue, nothing to do with them. If it’s a state candidate, blame the Supreme Court?
eff all of them. The GOP has wanted abortion bans for decades, now their right-wing base is coming for contraception and more. Keep hanging it on them. They hate women, they don’t trust women, they blame women, and they want women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. Submissive and out of sight. I hope to hell women turn out in waves and sink these scumbags.
Kay
@Mousebumples:
Good for you – really. I’m past the point where I can engage with them. I would need to know that they know the basics of pregnancy and delivery first – I refuse to explain miscarriages to one more person.
Mousebumples
@Baud: I’m guessing Biden falls where many older, religious (Democratic) are. Personally uncomfortable with abortion (eg they don’t want to get one/have a family member get one), but they understand that’s not where the government should be making decisions or dictating things.
That was me 20+ years ago. That discussion about rights and how the government shouldn’t be involved is what turned me from very Catholic Conservative to my current Liberal self, or steered me down that path, anyhow.
Baud
@Mousebumples:
Likely true. But I don’t care. His views haven’t affected his public policy on abortion rights, which are consistent with the Dem mainstream.
Betty
@Kay: Not to mention the lack of maternity leave or the relatively high level of maternal death.
Kay
@Mousebumples:
It really is a big tent. I remember when Hillary Clinton came out for an law banning flag burning – horrible pandering (and also unconstitutional) but widely popular among Right wing Democrats where I live. She got a standing ovation for it at Dem dinner I attended. I was one of like 3 people in the room who remained seated.
Mousebumples
@Kay: my aunt and uncle (and my mom and dad) both had miscarriages years ago. So I hoped my uncle would understand the dynamics. (and was pretty sure my mom would)
My uncle now has his first grandchild, too. A girl who lives in California. I was not subtle about bringing up my daughter’s rights, to bring that point home to my mom (who’s independent/liberal-leaning) he hoping my uncle would connect those dots.
I can’t do this with the general public, but if my extended family brings up politics, I’m asserting my opinion. And my rights. And my right to have rights.
Mousebumples
@Kay: yup. And so long as the MAGA right wants to keep kicking people out of the tent, I’ll invite them to vote Blue.
Kay
@Betty:
Agree. My daughter is a PA and she says US medical care is (finally) moving in a pro care of women direction but we’re so behind it’s going to take decades to ctach up to other developed countries. We won’t really progress without maternity leave. Maternal mortality stats include the year after the birth of the baby – a lot of US women die because they don’t get any care once the baby is delivered (because the baby is valued more than the mother).
Robmassing
Just like with the Covid vaccine, when he workshops this at his next stand-up gig, I mean rally, they won’t like it, and he’ll abandon it.
Trivia Man
@PST: A small bright side is it makes their job of running cover a little harder. I notice that the subreddit Conservative is still quiet about his announcement. Just one post with ZERO comments up after linking a fox story an hour ago. Normally the marching orders are fully formed immediately.
Princess
@Scout211: The follow up question from the media should be “If a Republican House and Senate put a bill with a national ban on your desk, will you sign it?” Because of course he will. But our failed media won’t ask him that.
Anyway, I don’t think what he has said today is going to move the needle for anyone in any direction. That’s good for us.
TS
@Kay:
While you had Roe v Wade you were, until the last few years ahead of some Australian States. Only recently have restrictions on abortion been removed by legislation and I am not sure all states have done this yet. Doctors had to sign to say the mothers health was in danger, and outside of capital cities it was not easy to obtain an abortion.
In 2009 a young lass in Qld was charged with procuring her own miscarriage, while her partner, was charged with attempting to procure an abortion and supplying drugs to procure an abortion.
This ended with a “not guilty” verdict and the Labor government voted into power in 2016, worked on, introduced and passed laws to ensure this doesn’t happen again in their state.
From 3 December 2018, the (Queensland) Termination of Pregnancy Act 2018 ensures termination of pregnancy is treated as a health issue rather than a criminal issue. The Act: supports a woman’s right to health, including reproductive health and autonomy.
Princess
He comes at us with “my personal view” and “Democracy is good; let the states decide!” Why not, “Democracy is good; let the women decide!” Why is the state some sacred unit for deciding this? I’d like to channel rikyrah and say lips so pursed.
SiubhanDuinne
I know how unpopular the FTFNYT is in these environs, but I feel compelled to point out that Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan, in their reporting on TFG’s abortion statement this morning, highlighted two separate instances of his lying. (Okay, they said “falsely claimed.” Baby steps.) I was unable to find any such statement in WaPo’s reporting.
Kay
@TS:
Thanks. I’ve read quite a bit about international standards but I don’t recall seeing Australia.
The United States is more restrictive than Saudi Arabia – they have exceptions for mental (and of course) physical health. American anti abortionists sneer at mental health exceptions – as if women have minds! Preposterous.
As someone else mentioned, you just have to look at maternity outcomes in the US to see how little regard there is for women – our maternal mortality rate is horrendous. No one cared for decades. It’s only now even mentioned in health care and it’s barely studied. There’s no funding available for research into womens health – no one cares.
Kay
@SiubhanDuinne:
I’m glad.
IMO NPR has been the best “major” news outlet on womens rights since Dobbs. They may be annoying on many other issues but they actually invested some time and money in covering womens rights, and it shows. Good work.
schrodingers_cat
This is no compromise. But a fig leaf for those who want to vote T. We have to see how many women value their own agency over supporting patriarchy and white supremacy.
Mousebumples
@Kay: our Black (and maybe general non-white, but I’m not positive) maternal mortality numbers are atrocious. I’m glad the MVP has made that a focus as well.
Betty
@TS: The Irish Catholic influence? It took Ireland a long time and a tragedy to change the law.
LiminalOwl
@satby: Thank you for doing this, and for giving me more ideas for respectfully pursuing such discussions.
SiubhanDuinne
@Kay:
From the very beginning, NPR has hired women at all levels, in noticeably disproportionate numbers to their commercial counterparts.
It was, at least in the early days, a matter of money. NPR didn’t have much to spend on salaries or perqs, and a lot of hungry young women got started, got good, got some power, and got to mentor younger generations of women. Not just the on-air stars like Susan Stamberg, Cokie Roberts, Linda Wertheimer, and Nina Totenberg, but writers, producers, and engineers as well.
I think that history accounts for a lot of their excellent coverage of women’s rights/women’s health and reproductive issues to this day. .
RevRick
@Baud: On the question of abortion, all Republicans (except for perhaps Murkowski) lie. They try to hide what they are up to by offering the supposedly moderate “solution” of a 16-week ban, but we know that is just a bait-and-switch tactic. We have the receipts. Look at what they’ve done in states they control. Time and again, they’ve passed these so-called moderate bans, and then when they got the opportunity, they turned around and adopted the most draconian laws they could.
And as I have said countless times before, if a zygote/embryo/fetus is a person, then a woman is not. She is reduced to the less-than-fully-human status of livestock.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
With those people, it’s about being assholer than thou, so it they will never stop until everyone else stops them, and then they will scream persecution. That’s why they think Trump is awesome.
Baud
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Spot on.
Soprano2
@Baud: To them, George W was a disappointment because he didn’t manage to outlaw abortion. That’s what they thought he would do.
Nettoyeur
@JML: The anti abortion crowd fear losing white majority status. But limiting birth control and abortion leads to the opposite outcome. Rich white suburban women will still be able to control fertility, bit Those People will have more kids. The nation will be kess white and poorer as a result. And then there will be will be torches and pitchforks.
Mike in NC
How fitting that in their fanatical zeal to ban all abortions, the Republican Party chose to be led by a convicted rapist. Can’t make that stuff up.
Soprano2
@Baud: No, they usually don’t.
TS
@Betty: Much of it was protestants – Presbyterians & other groups ran many of the “homes for unmarried mothers”. Children out of wedlock was a sin. Single mothers had their babes adopted except for the very few whose parents supported them. This did not stop until the 1970s. It was mainly RW governments that kept it going.
I’ve never forgotten having to have 2 doctors approve & then get my husband’s permission for a tubal ligation – 1980s. All men, none of them had to carry and birth any children. Fortunately my husband 100% was with me, else we would not still be married.
Jinchi
So you don’t think that the guy who prevented World War 3, brought peace to the Middle East and personally invented the cure for Covid can solve the abortion problem?
Soprano2
@Kay: It’s not just women who had babies, either, that are treated poorly by our system. When I see how much better my husband is now because he stayed in the hospital 7 days instead of the 5 he was in last time, I’m convinced he should have stayed longer before. All the numbers said he was ok, but mentally he wasn’t ready. They’re so quick to kick people out, it’s why we have bounceback laws. That’s why I’m getting help now, because he ended up back in the hospital and it makes them look bad. If he had even gone to a rehab place for a few days the first time he probably would have been fine. For one thing, he had gotten out of the habit of using the bathroom on his own because he had a catheter. For you or I that’s not a concern, but for someone with dementia it’s a big deal. That’s a HUGE quality of life issue, but they ignore it.
Soprano2
@Kay: But the mental health exceptions allow the “bad women” to have abortions, and they can’t allow that. /s/s/s
Mai Naem mobile
My regular drive home happens to be past a Planned Parenthood clinic which often has protesters standing with their anti abortion signs. I’m too chicken but I so want to tell them to go line up to adopt the gazillion kids in foster care in Arizona. And,oh, the Planned Parenthood clinic happens to be in the strip center with one of those so called ‘massage’ parlors.
UncleEbeneezer
@Baud: Exactly. Every time Biden speaks about abortion he is quite clearly on the side of letting women (and Trans/NB people) control their own reproductive health. He will veto any sort of ban/restriction and he will sign a Federal law codifying Roe if Congress ever passes one. And his DOJ challenges all the shitty state laws the GOP passes. That’s all that matters. I don’t need him to wear a “Say Abortion” tee shirt to know which side he’s on. And VP Harris is even more aggressive in her public language regarding abortion. Something that Biden must obviously be ok with because she wouldn’t be doing that if he wasn’t.
wjca
Sit home and sulk at how unfair the world is.
ChrisSherbak
@Princess: My thoughts exactly. Much better expressed. I do like the framing: “You have to let them kill babies so the GOP can win…”