Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Innocent people don’t delay justice.

Russia bombs Ukraine’s maternity hospitals; Republicans in the House can’t sort out supporting Ukraine.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

I was promised a recession.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

Accountability, motherfuckers.

I’m more Christian than these people and I’m an atheist.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.

‘Museums aren’t America’s attic for its racist shit.’

Consistently wrong since 2002

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

I was confident that someone would point it out and thought why not me.

Don’t expect peaches from an apple tree.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

You are here: Home / Healthcare / Wednesday Evening Open Thread: Repro Rights Are Human Rights

Wednesday Evening Open Thread: Repro Rights Are Human Rights

by | 117 Comments

This post is in: , , , ,


Sharing is caring!

Reader Interactions

117Comments

  2. 2.

    bbleh

    The zealots don’t care — they’re pretty thoroughly disconnected from reality — but the rest of the Republicans are scrambling madly, TIFG’s all-too-obvious squirming and lying being only the first of several exhibits.  Doesn’t matter how many carefully spun statements they issue or how delicately they try to finesse it — it’s branded on their foreheads now, and almost everybody knows it.

    The low-info voters are a problem — who knows what they’ll base their decisions on — but politically it’s about the best possible case: Dems are mad as hell, and most Republicans are sputtering and floundering.

    But as always, a thought for the women caught in the undertow, until we can bring this nightmarish stupidity to an end.

    (And OT, TIFG now 0 for 3 this week at NY Appellate Division.  Sorry bud — see you Monday!)

  3. 3.

    RSA

    Here’s a paragraph from the 2016 Republican platform, which the national committee resolved not to change in 2020. They don’t have anything new for 2024 as far as I know.

    The Constitution’s guarantee that no one can “be deprived of life, liberty or property” deliberately echoes the Declaration of Independence’s proclamation that “all” are “endowed by their Creator” with the inalienable right to life. Accordingly, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to children before birth.

    This isn’t hard.

    Also, Trump needs a better make-up artist. In that abortion statement video he looks like he’s wearing blackface. (Not that it would surprise anyone if he were, but…)

  7. 7.

    Jeffro

    Josh Marshall is spot-on.

    also: trumpov is terrified to take a position other than putting his fingers in his ears and repeating “STATES’ RIGHTS!!”

    trumpov’s telling comment on punishing doctors who provide abortions

    Trump’s answer is also particularly puzzling when you consider that he’s stumbled over much the same issue before [when he told Chris Matthews that “there has to be some form of punishment for the woman”]. About 8 in 10 Americans oppose punishing women for abortions. Even major antiabortion groups didn’t support that idea at the time. Trump reversed himself on it within a matter of hours.

    Trump has always been much more comfortable speaking in broad strokes about overturning Roe. When it comes to specifics and what’s politically acceptable — three-quarters of Americans oppose making providing an abortion a felony — he’s out of his depth. His positions have changed significantly even since he switched from “very pro-choice” to pro-life as he launched his political career and even during the 2024 campaign. He called six-week abortion bans “terrible” seven months ago; now he won’t even say that.

    The problem for the GOP right now is that this is such a divisive issue that it is crying out for leadership and a path forward — a set of principles that can steer them in a fraught time in which the American people don’t like what Republicans have done with their newfound ability to restrict abortion rights.  But in Trump, they have someone almost uniquely afraid and unwilling to guide them. And Wednesday was just the first taste of how that could go wrong.

    The sheer ineptitude of the GOP, post-catch, in catching the car they’ve been chasing for 50 year is something to behold though.  I can’t lay it all on Mr. “Some Form of Punishment for The Woman” Guy.

  8. 8.

    TBone

    I just watched part of Deadline Whitehouse.  John Bolton was asked about abortion and Nicole’s face was priceless when Bolton stated that Roe was unconstitutional and, therefore, wrongly decided.  Bolton was there for the interview because he’s warning about the dangers of a second term, and he was atrocious. I’m glad SO glad that sanctimonious, money grubbing prick is not running anything but a failed book sale!  He stated that both candidates are unfit and that he’ll be voting for his own write-in.  Nicole pushed back somewhat admirably on all points, finally repeatedly asking how we’re supposed to square his warning with the fact that he’s not supporting President Biden.  I feel dirty now.

  9. 9.

    MattF

    I watched a video of the original statement TFG made on abortion. I know this is trivial, but his Man-Tan makeup was grotesque. Dark brown everywhere but his temples. I wonder what he sees when he looks in a mirror.

    ETA: RSA above agrees.

  10. 10.

    Princess

    We all know Trump is a liar and we all know he’ll sign whatever ban Congress puts in front of him. Even his supporters know he’s a liar — that’s why they don’t care if he says he won’t sign.

  11. 11.

    Tony Jay

    The thought of the GOP getting brutally beaten around the head, neck and genitals with the consequences of ending Roe for (checks calendar) the next seven months fills me with such pleasure I can’t even imagine how I could possibly feel guilty about it.

    It’s a disaster for them, and their extremist base just wants more, more and more.

    Delicious schadenfreude. Serve it up thick and steaming on a bed of MAGAt tears.

  12. 12.

    lowtechcyclist

    @RSA:

    In that abortion statement video he looks like he’s wearing blackface.

    Well, brownface, but close enough.

    A vote for a Republican – any Republican from Trump on down to state legislature – is a vote to ban abortion.  It’s crystal clear: that’s what they’ve done wherever they have the power, and that’s what they’ll do wherever they get it.

    And where they ban it, there will be no exceptions for rape, incest, or the life of the mother.  Go home and bleed until your nonviable fetus is actually dead, and if you’re lucky, you won’t be dead as well.  If you’re not lucky, that’s your next-of-kin’s problem.

  13. 13.

    Spanky

    Former Speaker Nancy Pelosi on former President Trump’s abortion statement: “He either is stupid, or he thinks the rest of us are”

    In my experience, it’s usually been both. Stupid people don’t know how stupid they sound. And when you add narcissism to the mix …

  14. 14.

    Mike in Pasadena

    Just take a bus ride, easo peaso. If you bleed out on the road, the bus company will return the body to state of origin for prosecution.

  15. 15.

    Jackie

    @MattF: His face looked like dried out shoe leather – with very white ears.

    The idea TIFG didn’t see what we see… or maybe he has a Kari Lake mirror?

    I think his makeup person secretly hates him.

  18. 18.

    wjca

    @Tony Jay: It’s a disaster for them, and their extremist base just wants more, more and more.

    The first step, when you find yourself in a hole, is to stop digging.  But they can’t stop digging.

  21. 21.

    TBone

    @Baud: us.  They’ll give us all freedom.  Men are affected by the loss of womens’ rights.  If I were still single, I’d damn sure stay that way these days with NO chance of pregnancy marring my safety and security.

  24. 24.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Leto:

    That clown’s statement is all everybody needs to know about (N)ice, (P)olite (R)epublican radio’s editorial slant for the last quarter century.

    The Totebagger Radio crowd remains this clown’s audience and they’re not all that anxious for “diversity” in the sense that we define it.

  25. 25.

    Chris Johnson

    They should show women the people crawling on the floor and speaking in tongues in the Arizona legislature, around the state seal.

    THOSE are the people who think they have a right to control your body.

  26. 26.

    Leto

    @RSA: funny. Those protections apply to an unborn child, but a woman? Lol, go fuck yourselves! I mean we’ve known that since forever now but like Baud said, use that to continue to beat them mercilessly.

    And the commercial for my local CBS station right now is the Biden “Trumpov killed Roe, elect me to guarantee women’s right” commercial. It’s def a good commercial and I hope the all the dipshits low info/normies are paying attention.

  27. 27.

    TBone

    @Chris Johnson: 👍

    I remember the first time I went to a Baptist church (involuntarily as a yoot) and saw that happen in person.  It’s not something you EVER forget.

  28. 28.

    Jeffro

    @TBone: this was great (also from Josh/TPM):

    full panic kari lake says she opposes today’s ruling and demands katie hobbs solve the situation. also believes abortion should be left to the states. also opposes abortion. also Arizona is a state. also, LOL

    LOL indeed.

    This was a state Supreme Court decision, MAGAts!  Isn’t that what the Orange One wants?  “Leave it to the states”, right?

    What’s the problem here?  Defend it.

  30. 30.

    Leto

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: exactly. I actually enjoy some of the weekend programming because it’s more POC focused. Things that are happening in the Latino community, black people, more science stuff… if I wanted more conservative viewpoints, I’d turn it to AM and watch as my brains dribble out of my ears.

    It’s also apparently too hard for these morons to give just a moments time to introspection on why more people are rejecting the conservative viewpoint on almost all issues. It’s basically the Skinner meme, all the time.

  32. 32.

    lowtechcyclist

    @TBone:

    I remember the first time I went to a Baptist church (involuntarily as a yoot) and saw that happen in person.  It’s not something you EVER forget.

    That happened at a Baptist church, back when you were young?

    Fifty years ago, all the Baptists I knew, or knew of for that matter, were adamantly against speaking in tongues and all the rest of that Pentecostal stuff.

    Been a long time since I had a dog in that fight, but I once did, so I was very much aware of how the sides lined up.

  35. 35.

    Sure Lurkalot

    Does “abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one” fit on a bumper sticker?

  36. 36.

    Ruckus

    Former Speaker Nancy Pelosi on former President Trump’s abortion statement: “He either is stupid, or he thinks the rest of us are”

    A. He is stupid AND he thinks the rest of us are.

    B. Both of the above is another answer.

  37. 37.

    RedDirtGirl

    @Leto: I’ve been reading a bit about that. Makes me uncomfortable to be in the position of feeling any sympathy for NPR. That is not my normal state.

  39. 39.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @TBone:

    I feel dirty now.

    That’s what happens GWB flunkies are given the limelight on our “librul” teevee station.

  40. 40.

    TBone

    @lowtechcyclist: yeah, it’s a long story but it was my first experience outside of mom’s taking us to a Unitarian church or to grandparents’ Methodist.  Both of which happened less times than I have fingers.  It was like an out of body experience realizing that these were grown adult people I was watching.

  42. 42.

    Doc Sardonic

    @lowtechcyclist: Depends on which flavor Baptist, there are more flavors of Baptist than a fucking Baskin-Robbin’s. You got the foot washing Baptists, the snake handlin’ Baptists, the hard shell Baptists, the solid Bible preaching Baptists(they glued most all the pages together hence solid) etc.

  43. 43.

    waspuppet

    You know what else isn’t “the worst thing in the world”? Shutting your piehole and minding your own fcking business about whether someone has an abortion.

  44. 44.

    waspuppet

    @RSA: I would never criticize someone for what God gave them, or for experimenting with gender or what have you, but given that his self-image is “20th-century American tough guy businessman,” Trump’s appearance has reached the “We gotta take the keys from Grandpa” point.

  46. 46.

    Ruckus

    @TBone:

    They were adults but they were not grown up. There is a difference between breathing long enough to be considered an adult, and actually being one in reality.

  47. 47.

    Jeffro

    @Sure Lurkalot: right??!

    If they’re consistent (which they so rarely are)…they’d sound like the psychos that they are, but at least we’d know they had principles.

    If they’re not consistent (as in, almost always)…they sound like lying psychos who can’t be trusted with anything, for any reason.

    “Leave it to the states…NO, not like that…you’re hurting my election chances!”

    “What’s the big deal?  Just get a bus ticket to some other state if you want an abortion, you demoness!”

    and on and on and on…

    Next up from the “mind” of trumpov: “Ok, a federal law may be necessary to set some minimal parameters here while making sure the sluts don’t get away with it protecting the unborn…”

    I fully expect the MAGAts from trumpov on down to just blow past any and all questions and switch over to lying about Democrats non-stop.  Starting about 5 minutes ago…

  48. 48.

    smith

    @Jeffro: kari lake says she opposes today’s ruling and demands katie hobbs solve the situation

    And TFG said something similar

    The former president predicted that Arizona’s governor and others “are going to bring it back into reason.”

    So now the people who created this horror show are expecting a DEMOCRATIC governor to save them? In a state where just today, all but one REPUBLICAN in the AZ House blocked an attempt to repeal the law that’s causing all this anguish?

  50. 50.

    Jeffro

    @Doc Sardonic:Depends on which flavor Baptist, there are more flavors of Baptist than a fucking Baskin-Robbin’s. You got the foot washing Baptists, the snake handlin’ Baptists, the hard shell Baptists, the solid Bible preaching Baptists(they glued most all the pages together hence solid) etc.

    which ones are the OGs and which ones are the “splitters“, is all I want to know…

  51. 51.

    Baud

    @smith:

    They want the media to focus their attention on the Dem governor and stop pressing Republicans to explain their position.

  52. 52.

    TBone

    @Ruckus: well, most of them were parents, so to my yootful mind back then, they were grown ass adults.  They had parental authority (that’s how I was forced to attend), which should be boggling to all of us.

    ETA I remain as childlike as I possibly can at this age 😎

  53. 53.

    Old School

    Americans travelled hundreds of miles to see the eclipse. So why do they mind having to do it to get an abortion?— New York Times Pitchbot (@DougJBalloon) April 10, 2024

  55. 55.

    Leto

    Joy Reid showing the holy rollers on the AZ senate floor. Looks just as absolutely whacky as any parody group doing it. Can’t wait for their reactions when the rest of the religions do that on the Seal as well.

  59. 59.

    Leto

    @TBone: lemme know if I can do something to help.

    Joy’s lead off segment is the alliance between the Christian nationalists and Trumpov. GOP as a whole, basically.

    Edit: the title of that song… *childish chuckle

  60. 60.

    Jackie

    @smith: The GQP and TIFG are finally saying the super secret part out loud: “We screw the country; the Dems fix it.”

    That video clip will be Biden’s next political ad.

  62. 62.

    Eyeroller

    @Doc Sardonic: Not that I wish to defend Baptists, but most of the weird practices you mention are Pentecostal, not Baptist.  Snake-handling and speaking in tongues are definitely Pentecostal (or similar) and not Baptist, for instance.

  63. 63.

    TBone

    @Eyeroller: ummm that’s not my experience.  Southern stuff can get real weird.  I don’t think they’re too particular about which brand.

  64. 64.

    smith

    @Baud: It seems to me that the biggest supporters of Murc’s Law are Republicans. Poor little innocent bystanders who demand that the only people with agency step in and save them.

    And of course, as they hoped, the Democratic AG has announced she won’t prosecute anyone under this law, so at least for now there won’t be shocking tales of what it does to women that Republicans might have to answer for before November.

  65. 65.

    Doc Sardonic

    @Jeffro: They are all splitters….I remember a road trip I was on one time and was passing through rural North Carolina on a two lane back road that was so winding in the mountains that it felt like you were driving one of those slinky cartoon cars. We reached a flat straight part going through a little tiny town, and coming into town you see The Without Spot or Blemish Baptist church, a little farther(150 yards maybe) there was The GREATER Without Spot or Blemish Baptist church.

  67. 67.

    Doc Sardonic

    @Eyeroller: Where do you think the Pentecostals got some of that stuff from, the Northern Baptists and The Southern Baptist Convention are the mainstream Baptists and they do not believe in that stuff

  74. 74.

    Another Scott

    @Jeffro: The “religious right” folks aren’t on the defensive.  They’re continuing to press for total bans – they don’t care if GQPers don’t want to do that.

    E.g. NPR.org (from June 2023):

    MCCAMMON: Well, first, it helps to understand there’s a concern among some in the GOP that as new abortion restrictions have taken effect across the country, there may be backlash from voters. And the party’s presidential hopefuls have each been navigating that concern differently. You know, I asked Ralph Reed, the founder of the Faith and Freedom Coalition, about this yesterday.

    RALPH REED: There’s a perception out there that we’re on the defensive right now, post-ops. So what I’ve tried to say is, you know, get off your back heels, get on your toes and get on offense and off defense.

    MCCAMMON: And Reed notes that while most Americans support legal abortion, at least in the first trimester, that support does weaken later in pregnancy. So he thinks there’s an opportunity for Republicans there.

    RASCOE: So what would getting on the offense, as Reed puts it, mean for Republicans who oppose abortion rights?

    MCCAMMON: Well, many anti-abortion rights activists are pushing Republican leaders to advocate for a national ban on abortion. Of course, they don’t have the votes for that in Congress, and that’s something former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, another presidential candidate, acknowledged. You know, she says a national ban is not realistic and that she will work toward finding consensus on abortion. But former Vice President Mike Pence is calling on every GOP candidate to support at least a 15-week nationwide ban. Here he is at the Faith and Freedom Coalition on Friday.

    The religious RWNJs are thrilled – still. They want to keep pushing.

    “Be careful what you wish for…”

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  75. 75.

    Mike in NC

    Journalists everywhere: “Let’s ask convicted rapist Donald Trump his deep thoughts about a national abortion ban”.

  76. 76.

    Eyeroller

    @TBone: Any church can call itself Baptist since there’s no universal accrediting body and every “Baptist” church is autonomous.  There are Primitive Baptist churches but they are rare outside the South.  These are the “hard shell” or “foot washing’ Baptists mentioned above, but they aren’t into speaking in tongues etc. and are mostly in the South.  Speaking in tongues is very much NOT part of conventional Baptist doctrine, but could well be something that some church that calls itself “Baptist” might do.

  77. 77.

    kalakal

    @TBone: I remember watching Bolton in some TV studio in 2008 as the results came in for Obama vs McCain.

    It was a textbook example of an inability to face reality. He started off confident, wibbling away how Palin was a great VP pick and had energized the public in McCain’s favour despite what all the stupid polls were saying. As the results came in and McCain was tanking he sounded like he was a stuck tape loop, going “the energized base, the energized base” before loosing completely and ranting about how the voters were idiots. Charmless git

  78. 78.

    Jay

    @smith:

    while the State Ag and the Maricopa County Ag have said they won’t enforce the law,

    it doesn’t mean that wingnut county Ag’s and Prosecutor’s won’t.

  81. 81.

    Kay

    They still don’t get it. You not only can’t get an abortion in Arizona, you can’t safely be pregnant in Arizona. If something goes wrong your physician is barred from treating you.

    They don’t care about women so none of the people drafting the laws thought the laws thru – they never considered that an abortion ban puts every pregnant woman in the state at risk.
    The women suing the State of Texas aren’t suing because they couldn’t get an abortion – they’re suing because they were denied emergency medical care in pregnancy.

    I talked to lots and lots of women during Ohio’s pro choice campaign and probably half of them talked about how abortion bans deny women emergency medical care.

    Are they saying all pregnant women in anti choice states should take a bus to a modern state to get medical care? They can’t just ignore this – it’s a big part of what’s driving voters.

  82. 82.

    Kay

    I don’t accept that American women in 22 states shoud be denied emergency medical care in pregnancy.

    Imagine media and Republicans casually tossing this off this with any other group other than women- no one would even dare suggest it. It’s monstrous. It’s a serious violation of human rights.

    So, no, I don’t accept “left up to the states”. The right to access emergency medical care should not be denied to women no matter where they live. This isn’t negotiable. It’s outrageous that anyone would even think I would accept that – not for women, not for anyone.

  83. 83.

    Jeffro

    @Another Scott: Who said they – the MAGA hordes – were on defense?  I’m talking about their politicians, who (except for the reddest of red districts) are running away, hard, here.

    I absolutely, 110%, hope that the religious right continues to push hard, LOUDLY, for what they want.

    May their words be plastered here, there, and everywhere.  Billboards, social media, talk radio.  All of it.

    Just like the Blessed Pronunciations of Their Orange Idol, it mobilizes their base a bit…but it mobilizes our side even more.

  84. 84.

    smith

    @Jay: There are barriers to county DAs doing that immediately, based on a current executive order from the governor:

    Here’s why: Arizona Gov. Katie Hobbs, a Democrat, issued an executive order last year consolidating prosecutions of abortion cases with the Arizona Attorney General’s Office. Attorney General Kris Mayes, a Democrat and staunch abortion rights defender, said then and recommitted on Tuesday that she would never prosecute an abortion case, seemingly nullifying any threat of county prosecutors pursuing such cases.

    But there have been objections to the legal basis for Hobbs’ and Mayes’ power play, including from county prosecutors themselves. The county attorneys said they are elected officials and their authority cannot be usurped by the governor. Lawsuits to settle the issue were threatened last year, but never actually filed.

    So it’s possible that any criminal prosecution of an abortion case would lead first to a lawsuit against Hobbs’ executive order, which could delay the criminal case or prompt another stay of enforcement of the ban, Piatt said.

    So it’s likely that any attempts to enforce it will be tied up in court cases. Hopefully, the abortion referendum will pass before any women are victimized by this decision.

  85. 85.

    TBone

    Some good news per Marc Elias:

    An Arizona appeals court rejected failed Republican candidate Abe Hamadeh’s lawsuit trying to overturn his loss in the 2022 state attorney general race, marking the seventh time the election denier has lost in court.

  86. 86.

    Jeffro

    @Kay: I don’t accept “left up to the states”. The right to access emergency medical care should not be denied to women no matter where they live. This isn’t negotiable. It’s outrageous that anyone would even think I would accept that – not for women, not for anyone.

    Exactly.  For the multitude of reasons that a woman might seek medical care (emergency or no), it’s not up to the Arizona Supreme Court or Florida legislature to say “eh…too bad…die“.

    And if ever there was a case for ‘cancel culture’…these slime who want to jibber about “eh, just buy a bus ticket to another state if you want an abortion so badly” can and should literally spend their remaining days broke and alone.

  87. 87.

    TBone

    @smith: the flight of OB/GYN doctors resulting from the chilling effect that the law has reinforced is already harming us all.

  88. 88.

    Doc Sardonic

    @Eyeroller: Yes, I should have included the term Primitive with my initial post. Once you get outside of the mainstream Baptist conventions, it can potentially get weird, as my family was Primitive Baptist up until a few generations back, myself I am a lapsed Southern Baptist, studying to become a Dudist Priest

  89. 89.

    Martin

    So, here in Orange County one of our hospitals built a big fancy women’s hospital. 11 stories high it’s one of the taller buildings in the county. It wouldn’t be unfair to call it an ‘anchor baby hospital’ – airport close with ocean views, wealthy foreign couples wanting dual citizenship for their kid could pretty easily get a travel visa for an extended stay in the US in a pretty nice area with a lot of different asian, etc. communities. It’s a cheap, easy way to get citizenship for your kid. My neighborhood has a large concentration of Taiwanese owners who rent the property out, as the neighborhood was built soon after previous China/Taiwan security concerns, these homes are to some degree escape options for well off Taiwanese families (and has served as great income) as well as commonly used to send their kids to the US for the last year of high school, get CA residency and cheap in-state tuition, and possibly avoid mandatory military service. The number of such students I talked to in my career is easily in the hundreds.

    Abortion tourism is unquestionably a thing, and will expand as a thing. CA provided funding to abortion providers to help ensure that a surge of demand from other states didn’t make services unavailable for CA residents. CA doesn’t have a lot of people or providers near the AZ border, so AZ residents will probably have to travel pretty far into the state, or more likely, hop over to Vegas, or fly into some of the more upscale parts of the state. Middle and upper class women were always willing to trade out abortion access for tax cuts because they’d almost certainly save more in taxes than it would cost to fly to California or to France or wherever. And there’s money to be made on the other side of the business as well.

  91. 91.

    Jay

    @smith:

    So it’s likely that any attempts to enforce it will be tied up in court cases. Hopefully, the abortion referendum will pass before any women are victimized by this decision.

    That is all based on the assumption that the wingnut County AG’s, Prosecutors and Judges don’t go all in on the harassment factor.

    They can go all “your not the boss of me”, arrest somebody, jail them, then the State AG has to file suit to stop the proceedings and release the accused, to the same Wingnut State Supreme “Court” that created this ruling.

    Sure the accused might not get a wingnut judge, but maybe not.

  92. 92.

    Princess

    @smith:  I think we will get tales of horrible outcomes in AZ for women right away. This AG may not prosecute but the next Republican AG will and doctors know this and will refuse to treat or perform abortions immediately. The threat of future prosecution will be enough.

  93. 93.

    Martin

    @smith: Yeah, I think Hobbs and Mayes are on thin ice there. They’re doing a little too much of saying the quiet part out loud themselves. Nullifying courts is not a great look, even when you’re right. They could have gotten the same result playing a more subtle hand.

  94. 94.

    Princess

    @Martin: I think this (middle class women trading choice for tax cuts because they’re rich enough to fly somewhere) is an overstated. All the money in the world might not get you to a clinic fast enough if a pregnancy suddenly turns septic and women of child bearing age know someone who has needed sudden care and are acutely aware of this. And no one wants to fly to and from an abortion. But there are a lot of women who are 50+ who won’t get pregnant again, and they’re the ones who are very willing to trade the abortions they no longer need for tax cuts.

  95. 95.

    Martin

    @Jay: Not sure how wingnut the state supreme court is in this specific case. It’s not like the 1864 law superseded any newer one, I think it’s the newest law anyone there bothered to pass.

    Too much lawyering and not enough legislating. Roe made a lot of legislators very lazy. A lot of Democrats thought it was safer to do nothing than to do something. A few states have been very proactive on this issue, but only a few.

  96. 96.

    Jeffro

    @Princess:there are a lot of women who are 50+ who won’t get pregnant again, and they’re the ones who are very willing to trade the abortions they no longer need for tax cuts.

    True, there are some who want the tax cuts above all else.

    There’s also plenty who just want to vote trumpov because they think it’ll restore their group’s dominance (or the feeling of dominance, anyway).

    It’s the same sort of thing that explains why – according to them and their tribe – the economy was “horrible” on Obama’s last day as president, “amazing” on trumpov’s first and last day, then went back to being “horrible” on Biden’s first day.

    “if my guy is in charge, my group is dominant, and I feel awesome”

    “if my guy has been evicted from office, is facing 88 felony counts, and keeps demonstrating that he belongs in an institution…I feel…less awesome”

  97. 97.

    Eunicecycle

    @Princess: and then there’s a lot of us 50+ women who remember what it was like before Roe, and who fought to make abortion legal. And we are mad as hell that we have to do it again, for our daughters and granddaughters.

  99. 99.

    wjca

    @smith: just today, all but one REPUBLICAN in the AZ House blocked an attempt to repeal the law that’s causing all this anguish?

    Well, that makes it far easier to tie them to the position.  Said position soon to be under a bus.

  100. 100.

    wjca

    @Jay: while the State Ag and the Maricopa County Ag have said they won’t enforce the law,

    it doesn’t mean that wingnut county Ag’s and Prosecutor’s won’t.

    At least that puts the pain in the parts of the state which badly need a wake-up call.

  101. 101.

    wjca

    @smith: So it’s possible that any criminal prosecution of an abortion case would lead first to a lawsuit against Hobbs’ executive order, which could delay the criminal case or prompt another stay of enforcement of the ban

    Alternatively, they could just file the case, and defy the governor.  Which seems more the RWNJ style.

    EDT Jay got there first

  103. 103.

    Soprano2

    @Leto: The thing is, NPR has much more diversity of viewpoints than they used to, it’s just that those viewpoints are from women, people of color and gay people. Did you notice he never said the viewpoint that he thinks is missing is the conservative Republican one? To white people even letting others in feels like they’re dominating. That’s what happens when you’re used to your views being the dominant ones everywhere.

  104. 104.

    Jackie

    @Eunicecycle: ABSOLUTELY!!!

    My daughter is safe – only because she had to have a hysterectomy in her mid ‘30s while living in WA. She currently lives in FL.

    My DIL and granddaughters are safe – so far – because they live in a Blue state.

  105. 105.

    Gin & Tonic

    I have been reliably informed that today is National Gin and Tonic Day. I think I may celebrate.

  107. 107.

    RaflW

    @waspuppet: Also, why was Trump shouting while standing in an empty “library”? (Sound stage? Cheesy office, whatever.) Did he shout like that on The Apprentice? I never watched that shit.

    I could only watch a few moments from his Monday ‘announcement’, it was so disconcerting.

    I suppose if the AZ Supremes were going to do this — and what they’ve done is horrible — at least it bigfooted the crap out of Trump’s effort to ‘get ahead’ of the Dobbs issue (he can’t, but AZ timing made it all the harder!).

  109. 109.

    Kent

    6,482 people.

    That was the population of the Arizona territory in 1864 when this law was passed by the territorial legislature.   Obviously there were more people living in Arizona back then.  But they were Navajo, Hopi, Apache, etc.  so didn’t count.

    Of course women couldn’t vote, and Blacks couldn’t either in Arizona.  And lots of these 6,482 people were cowboys, prospectors and so forth who would have never gotten near a polling place.  So generously we can estimate that it was no more than about 3000 white men at best who elected the white male territorial legislature that passed a strict abortion ban that millions of 21st century women are subject to.

    Think about that for a moment.

  112. 112.

    Betsy

    @waspuppet: thank you. exactly.

    also if the decision about yes abortion or no abortion  should be kicked down to the individual states?

    I have an idea. How about let’s kick it all the way down to the individual woman.

    if every state can decide for “itself”* whether abortion should be a thing, then every person can decide for themselves whether abortion should be a thing

    * where “itself” = other people

  113. 113.

    Chris T.

    @Jeffro:

    these slime who want to jibber about “eh, just buy a bus ticket to another state if you want an abortion so badly” can and should literally spend their remaining days broke and alone.

    They should have heart attacks in states that forbid cardiac care. “Just take a bus to a blue state where they have cath labs and do bypass surgery!”

    (Yes, I know no state forbids cardiac care, and that the analogy falls apart even if you just squint at it too hard, but still…)

  115. 115.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Chris T.: ​
     

    They should have heart attacks in states that forbid cardiac care. “Just take a bus to a blue state where they have cath labs and do bypass surgery!”

    (Yes, I know no state forbids cardiac care, and that the analogy falls apart even if you just squint at it too hard, but still…)

    Not an analogy, but red states will have a harder time staffing their hospitals after a while, regardless of specialty. Not many doctors or nurses or other medical professionals are going to want to be part of a system that denies proper health care to women and trans persons, and full of people who harass hospital staff trying to save lives in the middle of a pandemic.

  116. 116.

    AM in NC

    @Leto: I hope this rightwing douchebag reads aaaaallllllllllllll of the comments at his screed.  He’ll see EXACTLY who he’s thrown his lot in with.

    Maybe it’ll give him pause about his “great awhitening” I mean, Uh, “awakening”, when he sees who it inexorably lumps him in with.

  117. 117.

    AM in NC

    @Kay:  Yep.  I notice they don’t make men travel to get medicine to help them “spread their seed’.

    Could you imagine the riots in the streets if men were told “Sorry, God clearly doesn’t want you fucking anymore, so any treatment for ED or Peyronies is illegal in this state because my God said so”.   We’d see dead legislators and judges, no doubt.

    But women? eh, whatevs.  For far too many people, it’s just , eh, it’ll magically work itself out, right?

Comments are closed.