This is a very polite way to express the thought: "Unfortunately a crucial blocking faction of your Congress takes orders from a criminally indicted Russian stooge candidate for president." https://t.co/Odm5ladIvl
— David Frum (@davidfrum) April 11, 2024
“Ukraine of today may be east Asia of tomorrow” Japan Prime Minister in the Congress of the USA
Note how Moscow Mike doesn’t applaud…pic.twitter.com/i29TPwpL8c
— Rodrigo Figueredo???????? (@GeorgeArtwell) April 11, 2024
BREAKING: After President Biden slammed House Speaker Mike Johnson for not bringing a vote to the floor on Ukraine aid, the Japanese Prime Minister slammed Johnson and Republicans for their refusal to support Ukraine. Republicans are embarrassing the U.S. on the world stage.
— Biden’s Wins (@BidensWins) April 11, 2024
“Although the world looks to your leadership, the US should not be expected to do it all, unaided and on your own… I am here to say that Japan is already standing shoulder to shoulder with the United States. You are not alone. We are with you.” ???????????? https://t.co/XJjmIzLJu6
— Jada Fraser (@JadaCFraser) April 11, 2024
House Speaker Mike Johnson is negotiating with White House to advance Ukraine aid https://t.co/PaXehQxc8A
— The Associated Press (@AP) April 12, 2024
… House Republican Leader Steve Scalise told reporters that Johnson had been talking with White House officials about a package that would deviate from the Senate’s $95 billion foreign security package and include several Republican demands. It comes after Johnson has delayed for months on advancing aid that would provide desperately needed ammunition and weaponry for Kyiv, trying to find the right time to advance a package that will be a painful political lift.
“There’s been no agreement reached,” Scalise said. “Obviously there would have to an agreement reached not just with the White House, but with our own members.”…
The Republican speaker is set to travel to the former president’s Mar-a-Lago club in Florida on Friday to meet with Trump and has been consulting him in recent weeks on the Ukraine funding to gain his support — or at least prevent him from openly opposing the package.
Sen. Markwayne Mullin, an Oklahoma Republican who often works closely with House lawmakers, said this week he and Trump have spoken with Johnson “in depth” about how to advance Ukraine aid. It is not clear whether Trump would lend any political support, but Mullin said he was hoping to get the former president behind the package, especially now that Johnson’s job is at stake…
Pelosi and Hoyer making impassioned pitches in Dem whips, encouraging members to sign Ukraine discharge petition even if they don't support Israel $$
— Heather Caygle (@heatherscope) April 11, 2024
So far 193 Democrats (out of 213) have signed onto the petition
— Heather Caygle (@heatherscope) April 11, 2024
??Urgent: @SpeakerJohnson, your district’s Military Families are watching. The stakes of Ukraine aid are HIGH – inaction risks involving our Troops in a European conflict. They've served us bravely; let's serve them now by supporting this aid. #PassUkraineAidNOW pic.twitter.com/aFBezI0lyZ
— VoteVets (@votevets) April 11, 2024
Gin & Tonic
“House Speaker Mike Johnson is negotiating with White House to advance Ukraine aid”
I call bullshit.
schrodingers_cat
Who are the 20 Ds sitting on the sidelines and aiding EmptyG?
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
Good call.
Gin & Tonic
@schrodingers_cat: 10 to 1 it’s “the squad.”
Baud
Now that’s funny.
schrodingers_cat
@Gin & Tonic: Yep. That would be my guess as well. The performance art caucus.
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic:
edited: tweet deleted because it was the list of 25 names, and 5 had already signed.
correct list is at comment #12.
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
More than them. They’re only 6 or 8 people.
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: AOC, Jayapal, Katie fucking Porter, didn’t read any further
smith
@schrodingers_cat: Here’s a list, posted yesterday, that put the number at 25, but perhaps progress has been made since then.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: There are Squad adjacents like Ro Khanna and Pramila Jaypal among others.
Q. How can you call yourself a progressive when you are against any progress?
I checked the list, you are right. Squad, Squad++ and Manchin Lite like Jared Golden etc.
WaterGirl
Updated version:
B1naryS3rf
Has anyone done a deep dive into EmptyG’s backers? Or might the Krafty Kompromat Krew simply have some particularly juicy stuff (bleccch) on her?
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: Katie Porter already told us that she doesn’t give a fuck.
How many on our side fell for that white board schtick?
smith
@WaterGirl: Really disappointed to see Chuy Garcia and Danny Davis on that list. I’m not in either district, but I supported Garcia in the mayoral primary. I’m thinking of writing to him expressing my unhappiness that he’d let Ukraine fall because of the actions of a completely different country that Ukrainians have no influence on.
ETA: Yes, I know this reluctance to sign is an expression of disapproval of Biden’s slow response to the crisis in Gaza, but victimizing Ukraine over that is not morally defensible in my opinion.
UncleEbeneezer
Some pretty funny Tweets/jokes embedded in this article:
Anyway
@schrodingers_cat:
Is Peltola in the Squad?
ETA I thought Alaskans would be anti-Putin
schrodingers_cat
@Anyway: She is a red state D, so I would put her in the Manchin Lite group. So did I.
Warblewarble
The root problem is the linkage of funding for Ukraine , with funding for Israels genocide.
Baud
I know the bill gives money to Israel, but I thought I read it has money for humanitarian aid for Gaza. True?
Eolirin
I would hope if the Democrats can get the five republicans they need beyond their own caucus, that Jeffries will be able to get the remaining 20 dems to sign the damn petition, even if they’re going to vote against the bill
This is a two step process isn’t it?
Baud
@Warblewarble:
Everyone understands the problem. Republicans aren’t going to vote for Ukraine only.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: What Israel is doing is unpleasant but even Sec Austin said that it is not genocide.
These words are used too loosely.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Doesn’t matter. The holdouts don’t want to vote for money to Israel.
WaterGirl
@smith: I would happily sign on to a list of people who think we shouldn’t give Israel another dime until they stop what they are doing too Palestinians.
But, like you, I put aid to Ukraine above everything, and there will be many ways to express their thoughts about Israel AFTER we give Ukraine what they need.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Their inaction aids Putin. So they are ultimately aiding EmptyG and Putin.
schrodingers_cat
India will go to polls starting next weekend. It will be a hard fought contest despite BJP’s bravado. The voting is going to occur in several phases will take over a month
I am watching it closely. I may be in India during the last stage of the polling. Will keep you guys updated.
JPL
@zhena gogolia: Andy Kim! I understand that they don’t want to support genocide, but won’t they be supporting the mass murder of Ukranians?
ugh
smith
@WaterGirl: Yes, it’s morally inconsistent to try to stop genocide in Gaza by allowing genocide in Ukraine. Delivering a message is one thing, but abandoning allies in desperate straits is not the way to do it. It’s the same kind of hostage taking the GQP does with the budget.
Warblewarble
Defence Sec.says no genocide, hah ,magic wand.
Dan B
The aid to Israel can be slow walked. Biden seems afraid if weapons are not delivered and Iran attacks he’ll be blamed. My wish is the weapons delivery is halted immediately with demands for rapid changes in the Gaza war being key to the restoration of weapons shipments. Action in addition to threats. Bibi only responds to strength.
Brachiator
How could this be? Fox News tells me that only Trump commands the respect of world leaders.
But seriously, it is telling that the Japanese leader would do openly condemn the Republicans.
I’m way past being disgusted with the GOP and Trump, Putin’s Orange Toady.
Bill Arnold
@Warblewarble:
You do understand that Vova Putin is wanted man charged with a two war crimes of a genocidal nature, right?
Do you support genocide?
Baud
The frustrating part is that I believe it was Hamas that has been rejecting cease fire deals recently.
Bill Arnold
@Baud:
They are pro-genocide, then.
JanieM
@WaterGirl: That list is outdated. Chellie Pingree signed a while ago. Beyond that I haven’t checked.
Here’s a more recent tally:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTaMB3k5Z37OAM8HEMhDtwbLGzwn1wDXSNcoTmXEJbpfbacfp-m0fJGyb36lcNOhgqGO5-bArbibS5a/pubhtml?gid=614612044&single=true
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Only Biden and Israel have agency. Hamas doesn’t, so say our progressive betters.
schrodingers_cat
@Bill Arnold: Yes. Actions speak louder than words.
JanieM
The House site listing signatories by date, including Jared Golden today.
Warblewarble
@Bill Arnold: Since when does condemnation of genocide become support for genocide.It was this administration that slowwalked providing needed arms to Ukraine for fear of provoking Putin and bypassed Congress to provide arms to Israel.
JPL
@JanieM: Thank you.
Geminid
@WaterGirl: Many of these Representatives have signed the petition.
schrodingers_cat
@JPL: We need about 20 more as I had mentioned in my first comment on this topic.
This is the list from yesterday. Jared Golden has signed so its 20 who haven’t yet signed on.
Baud
@Warblewarble:
I’m not going to get into using genocide as an accusation, but trying to blame the administration is classic whataboutism.
japa21
@smith: Davis has since signed. Garcia not yet.
He is my Congressman and I just sent him the following email.
Geminid
@Anyway: I’m pretty sure Mary Peltola has signed the petition. Same with Andy Kim and Katie Porter, and a dozen others on that list.
JPL
@Geminid: Janie also posted this list…Office of the Clerk, U.S. House of Representatives – Discharge Petition Details – 9
Jackie
@smith:
Well said! We need to contact those on the list with that sentence!
Anyway
@Baud:
I don’t think much aid has been allowed into Gaza in the week following the WKC shooting despite Israel’s assurances.
Baud
It would be good to post an updated list, to avoid inadvertent spread of misinformation.
WaterGirl
Baud
@Anyway:
I thought I read the opposite. But I don’t know.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I just posted a link. Can’t embed it.
WaterGirl
@JanieM: Thank you.
Updated version is now at #12.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
According to Geminid, Golden has signed.
ETA: Yes, Golden signed today.
WaterGirl
@Baud: I updated the image at #12 to what JanieM says is the latest version.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
I think that’s accurate except for Golden.
Anyway
@Geminid:
I saw the updated list… Holding up aid to Ukraine for any reason is indefensible. I’m not convinced 4-5 Rs will step up to sign the discharge petition
JPL
@Baud: It was significantly more after Biden’s conversation with bibi. CNN tracked the numbers. It is probably not enough and too late to help some, but there was a dramatic increase.
WaterGirl
@Geminid: @Baud: I updated comment #12 with the latest link JanieM linked to, and I removed the tweet that apparently had 5 names on it who had already signed.
WaterGirl
Most recent signatories.
Baud
Interesting that AOC is listed as persuadable.
Layer8Problem
My representative Richie Torres signed. The rep in the next district over, Jamaal Bowman, “Strongly opposed.” Words fail me.
Warblewarble
@Baud: The real whataboutism ,is that Zelensky has been calling out for air defences that have not been forhcoming. Where Israel bombs Iran’s consulate bringing the region to the brink of a wider war, and the us pledges it’s full support, which only encourages further recklessness.
Baud
@Warblewarble:
That’s not whataboutism, since I’m not using that as a reason not to pass this bill.
Anyway
@JPL:
I was going by an article in the Guardian
karen marie
Just imagine the heads exploding If Democrats held up legislation to see if a former Democratic president would agree to Democratic members of the House and/or Senate voting in favor of anything.
We do live in the stupidest of times.
WaterGirl
@Anyway: @JPL: @Baud: Times of Israel
MisterForkbeard
@Warblewarble: Words typed in a sequence do not constitute a sentence. Or a thought.
If you’re gonna do whataboutism, try to figure out how to make it vaguely sensical first.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Thanks.
HeiSokoly
@JPL: That list is well out of date—Kim has signed, he is a strong supporter of Ukraine but was out of town due to his campaign; Peltola has signed; Porter signed after a NAFO campaign; ten of those who haven’t signed also supported Jayapal’s anti-Ukraine letter in Sept 2022, and some also voted against standalone Ukraine aid in March 2022.
Here is the real list of signers—check before expending emotion:
https://clerk.house.gov/DischargePetition/2024031209?CongressNum=118
Geminid
Washington, DC all news station WTOP just had an update on the Key Bridge removal project. An Army Corps of Engineers Colonel said the plan was to clear a 35 foot deep, 280 foot wide channel by the end of this month. The channel will then be deepened and widened.
Salvage divers are working with low visibility and contending with strong currents. Besides cutting up and rigging bridge sections for removal, they are looking for three missing construction workers.
WTOP also had a report on Maryland’s Democratic Senate primary. A recent poll showed Prince George’s County Executive Angela Alsobrooks closing the gap with Rep. David Trone, trailing 43 to 40%. The primary election is in May, I think.
Jinchi
How does a line like that get past the editor’s desk? Trump will not lend any political support for Ukraine. He is the reason Republicans oppose aid.
Baud
@Jinchi:
For the media, today will always be the day that Donald Trump became president of the United States.
Damien
@WaterGirl: TBF, I’m not seeing any reports of the evidence that Israel provided. I really hate to say it, but Netenyahu and his merry band of Judeo-Fascist fanatics has utterly destroyed any credibility that Israel had left.
I truly, truly hate that, because I feel a deep, personal connection to Israel. But goddamn.
smith
I’m sorry, but I don’t understand this. Are you saying Biden should have sent additional air defenses to Ukraine even though Congress has not voted funds for them?
WaterGirl
HumboldtBlue
@Baud:
She just donated some 200k or so to the DCCC to help races in other states.
Baud
@Damien:
Agreed. No information is trustworthy in all this.
Baud
@HumboldtBlue:
Thanks. Good on her for that.
WaterGirl
@Damien: It doesn’t sound like this agency has much credibility either!
UNRWA faced a wave of global funding cuts after Israel provided evidence that at least 12 of its staffers in the Strip took part in the October 7 assault on southern Israel, and Israeli officials have long accused the agency of having close ties to Hamas, teaching incitement against Israel in schools and even turning a blind eye to the construction of a large Hamas data center underneath its Gaza City headquarters.
smith
Gee, I wonder where all that publicity came from.
This is the fourth time in 5 days a motion to delay or dismiss this trial has failed. I can’t imagine what kind of tantrums the toddler will be throwing this weekend. He’ll be squirming right out of his skin.
Damien
@Baud:
I think the central problem is simply that neither of the actual combatants in this war want to stop fighting. AOC and the Squad can demand Biden call for a ceasefire all they like, but the part that I never hear addressed is how that would work. Who’s going to enforce it when neither the IDF nor Hamas/PIJ/Hezbollah/whatever want to stop the bloodshed; not even to mention that whoever’s going to enforce the ceasefire has to be trusted by whichever side is going to be doing it.
So who? Who is going to? Jordan, Egypt, Syria…Iran? And on Israel’s side, who else could it possibly be but the United States? What are we gonna do, send flyboys and troops into Israel or god forbid Gaza and put our own soldiers in harm’s way to enforce it? Dear god I can’t even imagine what happens when a rogue IDF SAM takes out a US plane, or if Hamas ambushes a squad of our troops.
In every war that has ever been fought, it ends when one side or the other either can’t or won’t fight anymore; Israel’s got enough military might on its own to utterly flatten Gaza even more than they already have, and Hamas is getting exactly what it wants by letting Israel destroy its standing on the world stage no matter how many Palestinians suffer in the process.
Sadly, it seems highly likely that this war is going to end with Israel winning a Pyrrhic victory: Netenyahu will succeed in seizing all of Gaza, and maybe he’ll even go for the West Bank too why not, and then there’s no more Palestine but at the cost of Israel being an absolute international pariah.
Hope I’m wrong.
Lyrebird
@HeiSokoly: Thanks, I thought I remembered that Reps Porter and Peltola had signed but didn’t know how to find that updated list. My district is represented in the first day or two YAY.
I still wish for more noise about the districts in PA OH and elsewhere that have jobs on the line for making the new military equipment here in the US of A.
WaterGirl
@smith:
Exactly! He’s like that guy who murdered him parents and then asked the court for leniency because he was an orphan.
Baud
@Damien:
I absolutely agree that’s the central problem.
Damien
@WaterGirl: I see now that the evidence has not been made public, but the UNRWA fired the 10 staffers who were identified and still alive. On the flip side there are 13,000 UNRWA staffers in Gaza.
Israel’s saying there are 450 Hamas infiltrates into UNRWA. I honestly think at this point that either Israel needs to start publicly releasing the information that they have or they need to do something else to rebuild their credibility, because there have been a number of things that have come out as being untrue.
On the other hand, I think that there needs to be a public investigation into UNRWA; we need to be able to judge these things accurately and selective release of information is just skewing everything.
Geminid
@Lyrebird: I think in the case of Ukraine aid, people in Republican districts can have an impact. A lot of Republican Representives have been straddling the fence on this issue, with a finger in the air. Some of them might respond to a push from their constituents.
Harrison Wesley
@smith: Let the throwing of hamberders begin!
Dan B
@Harrison Wesley: Has the market for Ketchup futures closed yet?
Another Scott
@WaterGirl: @Damien:
AFAIK, it’s still the case that Israel hasn’t provided evidence to back up those inciting charges against UNWRA.
Reuters.com (from March 14):
From the beginning, it sounded like a usual right-wing smear job to get the press and politicians to panic and do something NOW NOW NOW, Which, coincidentally, is exactly what RWNJs in the US Congress and elsewhere were demanding for years.
Grr…,
Scott.
Jackie
@HumboldtBlue:
I read that today! I believe it was noted it was the first time she’s ever donated to the DCCC. She wants to win back the House with as large a majority as possible. 😊
Jay
@WaterGirl:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_allegations_against_UNRWA
Baud
@Jackie:
Every decent person should want that.
Jackie
@smith: Does TIFG have any big rallies or fund raising galas scheduled for this weekend? He’ll be a frothing, babbling, incoherent specimen, if so!
If only Faux, Newsmax, OAN and the like wouldn’t cut away as they tend to do, as of late…
smith
@Jackie: The unwinding of his mental capacity and emotional stability has been accelerating at a faster and faster pace recently. I’m more than halfway expecting him to have some kind of breakdown in the court room in the coming weeks.
Bill Arnold
@Damien:
OK, so somewhere between 10 and 450 Hamas “infiltrates” were/are in UNRWA, out of 13000 staffers in Gaza.
“Infiltrates” probably includes people who at least once received a phone call from a Hamas militant, or something similar. So, between one tenth of one percent and 4 percent, but probably well less than 1 percent. Pretty low, considering.
What percentage of people in the IDF have have expressed genocidal thoughts or advocated for war crimes in a documented way? I’d be surprised if it weren’t a few percent; the IDF is representative of non-Arab Israeli society; mandatory service.
I’d also like this as a check on the accuracy of Israeli public statements. I’m deeply suspicious of some of their numbers.
Geminid
@Jackie: Donald Trump has a rally scheduled tomorrow in Pennsylvania, at the Snecksville Volunteer Fire Department Fairgrounds. That’s in the Lehigh Valley, north of Allentown.
karen marie
@smith: I don’t think there have been four or five. This one – “too much publicity” – happened earlier in the week, so this is probably the second or third time you’re hearing about it.
The “too much publicity” motion and other Trump trial-related activities were discussed on the Lawfare podcast from this past Thursday.
Jay
@Bill Arnold:
One of Israel’s “claims” is based on a vid shot by a Palestinian family of Hamas shooters, shooting indiscriminately from a moving vehicle.
The SUV is the same make, model and year as many of UNRWA’s fleet,
but, the license plate is illegible,
the vehicle doesn’t have the UNRWA graphics, (bold and in black) on the sides, back and roof, (every aid agency in Gaza does this so the don’t get World Central Kitchened),
and the family that shot the video, were all killed when a 500lb bomb was dropped by the IDF on their house.
smith
@karen marie: I’m not sure, but the podcast might have been covering the motion, but not the ruling to deny it. Several news orgs say the ruling came today. From CNN:
Harrison Wesley
@Jay: How convenient!
Jackie
@Geminid: 👍🏻 May the RWNJ’s cover him in entirety! His voters need to see what they’re actually voting for. MAGA will never forsake him, but “normie republicans” (is there even such a thing?) need to see for their selves.
Jackie
@smith: You’re correct; Denied #4 came down today.
Jay
@Harrison Wesley:
It could be just convenient. The “Lavender” and other leaks have noted that PGM’s are only used in Gaza for supposed high value Hamas members, and dumb bombs are used for everybody else.
As a result, a lot of houses and buildings that are being bombed, arn’t the assigned target at all.
Harrison Wesley
@Geminid: I almost wish I were still in PA. I’d kind of like to check that out. Only been to Allentown once, but unlike Billy Joel and Frank Zappa, I enjoyed it.
Baud
Via reddit, haha Michael Steele.
Jay
https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
Jackie
BREAKING NEWS:
I guess TIFG will have to pardon him before Rocha can become his Ambassador to Cuba.
Jackie
@Baud: 😂
In spite of this community’s destain and hatred of Never Trumper republicans, (nebber mind former gop-now independent-leaning Dem…) I SO enjoy Michael Steele!
RaflW
@WaterGirl: I wrote to Ilhan, but he’s completely, utterly dug in because of Israel.
Letting Putin win in Ukraine would be an extremely bitter pill. Her Democratic opponent in the primary is a self-dealing, smarmy old man. He was not of much use on the Mpls City Council. I do not want to support him. But she’s a mess of her own making — and, frankly, in general not very smart (she damn near lost to Samuels last time, because she wildly overestimated her incumbency advantage).
I was fine with her being in the MN Legislature, but she got lucky swooping in when Ellison moved to MN A.G. and here we are. Blergh.
Harrison Wesley
@Jackie: I totally agree. If the R’s had a bunch more people like him, we could have a functional two-party system. Though being Black and having an actual sense of humor kind of doomed him in the current iteration of the party.
cain
@schrodingers_cat:
Interestingly my hindutva uncle is not happy with Modi calling him a dictator and a braggart.
There was a bit of a celebration because we felt he was going way right wing.
Baud
@cain:
Interesting. Good news.
Jackie
Never mind. Question answered.
Cheryl from Maryland
cain
@Dan B: Biden needs to bring the 20 Dems to the white House and have some discussions.
piratedan
@WaterGirl: I pinged Grijalva on Instagram. indicated that even if he votes against it, it should be brought to the floor for a vote to happen.
CaseyL
Pramila Jayapal is my Representative. I’ve mostly liked her in the past, though she’s done a couple things that have pissed me off.
I’ve been polite in my previous communications with Jayapal on this issue. I just sent her another email, and I wasn’t polite this time. Among other things, I said abandoning Ukraine to help Gaza was a fool’s errand, since if Ukraine falls Europe will be too terrified for its own safety to even think about Gaza.
cain
@Baud: AOC is not a nutter she understands how things works. She isn’t a showboater she actually cares about the final outcome.
She is going to be President one day.
Anne Laurie
There’s an old saying: Why buy a cow, when milk is so cheap?
MTG is (a) already a true believer in all the Russian-pushed conspiracy theories; and (b) flagrantly open about the personal / financial stuff that might be used as blackmail. The Russians don’t have to threaten her, because she’s already on their side!
Martin
@schrodingers_cat: Genocide is a lot easier to implement via famine than bombing. Not sure Austin is the correct person to be asking that assessment. I don’t consider the Sec Def to be the moral agent that upholds human rights, which is where genocide lands. I agree there’s no military objective for genocide, but Israel leaders have suggested more than once they have a political objective for genocide. I mean, is that not what the settlement program contributes to doing?
I don’t think he’s a bad guy, I just think he’s unqualified to judge, or maybe more accurately, he wears the wrong hat to assess that.
schrodingers_cat
@cain: What was the straw that broke the camel’s back?
Jackie
@CaseyL: I contacted Jayapal, too. Depriving one for the other = stalemate – and is exactly what Putin and TIFG want.
cain
@Baud: I’m curious to know who he has been listening to get to that stage.
schrodingers_cat
@cain: Has he been listening to Dhruv Rathee?
Kay
@Martin:
If half a million Palestinians die of starvation because Israel won’t let food aid in it’s going to be considered a genocide, no matter what Austin says.
Biden’s going to have to somehow enforce the US demand that they let food aid in because they’re not complying. He only has one lever, and it’s the weapons we’re sending. They’re really backing him into a corner – famine is unacceptable. He won’t be able to NOT act if this gets worse.
Jackie
Did something happen after yesterday’s Biden’s meeting with Japan’s PM that I missed?
cain
@schrodingers_cat: he must be listening to someone but my uncle hates people who brag
cain
@schrodingers_cat: can’t say I have .. link ?
schrodingers_cat
@cain: I haven’t heard it myself but this video has gone viral
Is India becoming a dictatorship?
wjca
Either a) they think Biden has a magic wand which will make a ceasefire happen, or b) all they care about is the performance** of calling for a ceasefire, whether or not it actually happens. Or, I supposem they are utterly clueless about the people involved.
** And who does that sound like?
Kay
Well it’s actually the United States that is calling for a ceasefire, so one would hope they know how it would work. This is Biden on Tuesday:
The United States cannot let half a million people starve in a conflict where they’re providing the weapons, particuarly because we have a set of laws that say we cannot provide military aid to governments that get in the way of humanitarian aid “either directly or indirectly” . The status quo is unacceptable and not in the interest of the US. It’s also, incidentally, not in Joe Biden’s political interest. This policy is wildly unpopular – not just with Democrats, but also with Independents.
Martin
@Damien: I’ve heard two approaches spelled out. But it’s key to recognize that Israel and Hamas were already in a ceasefire on Oct 7, so a durable ceasefire at a minimum means a reversion to the pre Oct 7 status-quo and that’s basically just it. Hostages and whatnot get worked out under the kinds of negotiations that would normally happen independent of that.
But that Biden hasn’t wanted a ceasefire, or possibly just a short-term ceasefire because he wants to get to this multinational PA peace deal and a durable ceasefire probably kills that plan because both sides could operate the prior durable ceasefire, but a short term one leaves enough pressure to try and get it done.
The ceasefire is enforced because there’s something at the end of it that both parties want. Though in this case both parties would likely be staring down threats to not get there.
Martin
@Kay: Biden has a much bigger lever – recognize a Palestinian state. And there are levers between those, such as not vetoing if France pushes a UN resolution to recognize a Palestinian state, which would pass if it got through the veto holding nations.
NotMax
@Martin
Tricky needle to thread for a multitude of reasons, including pitting the U.S. in opposition to a majority of the EU.
Aside from Sweden, the only EU members which recognize a state of Palestine are all former Soviet bloc countries.
rikyrah
@Baud:
They need to get over themselves
Martin
@NotMax: Macron is pretty seriously making the threat. It could be he’s out ahead of the US, and it could be Biden is okay with him making Bibi sweat (have a hard time believing the US, France, and UK aren’t very clear on where each other stand). Cameron floated the possibility as well. I think Bibi is on really thin ice here.
It doesn’t really matter if the rest of the EU recognize Palestine or not, if the big 5 get that resolution through, it’ll pass pretty easily and they’re recognized by the UN. Same basic path that Israel took.
But yeah, it’s been the trickiest needle on earth to thread for a while. Not holding my breath – this has been all of our natural lives.
Martin
@rikyrah: Barbara Lee won’t budge. She was the sole dissenting vote on the Afghanistan war. She’s a to-the-core pacifist.
NotMax
@Martin
For the record, next step after the Security Council is passage by a vote in favor of 2/3 of the General Assembly.
WaterGirl
@Jay: Lovely.
WaterGirl
@karen marie: @smith: I think smith is correct in saying it’s the 4th one this week.
I believe this one is different from the change of venue request.
WaterGirl
@RaflW: That’s frustrating.
WaterGirl
@cain: Yes, yes, yes, and HARD NO.
Gvg
@schrodingers_cat: so do you support Israel and how it is conducting it’s war?
I support Ukraine, but Israel needs to be reined in. The votes aren’t there, not even close yet, but something needs to be done.
Both peoples are real and due to past politics and habits doing the right thing is pulling in different directions.
I should have said all 3 peoples. We can not forget that Hamas is evil and started the latest fight. So Ukrainians, Israelis and Palestinians.
and I don’t think Israel needs more from us right now, they already had a lot of armament.
Gvg
@schrodingers_cat: 2 Florida reps. Florida has a fair amount of older Jewish voters.
Hamas started it with an atrocity and are presumably still raping and torturing the hostages. I don’t think this about Biden or loyalty to the party
I would hope that even the ones who signed don’t like the necessary compromise of giving to Israel. This is not easy.
Biden continuing to negotiate is the only way through. In the long run we are going to have to figure out a way to pull up Israel, which really means getting more Americans to update their thinking, including our Jewish elders.
Gvg
@Baud: That has always been the problem with helping the Palestinians. Terrible “leaders”. And they beat up and kill dissenters.
Decades of terrible selfish fanatical leaders who won’t quit going for getting rid of Israel entirely.
Gvg
@schrodingers_cat: youngsters who have not yet learned the whole story. So we have to start educating them. Some won’t learn but some will.
Progressives are not that powerful or numerous. It’s the young voters who just noticed the Palestinian problem now when they are being killed in bigger news headline numbers that give those few holdouts any power. They can be educated now their attention is caught. I hope anyway. The Palestinian issue need long term interest and attention. We need to get away from always supporting Israel for one thing.
wjca
The thing with hard core pacifists is, they are basically free-riding on others. They don’t want to fight, which is fine; lots of us would far prefer not to. But they also refuse to fight back when attacked, and refuse to support those who do.
They are free to do so only because others will do the fighting for them, and over their objections. Their position, if widespread, leaves bad actors (whether Putin or the local gang) free to take over by force. At which point, their freedom to decline to fight disappears. No more free ride.