The (Not-so) Supremes will be talking about the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) this week, so let’s have a go ourselves, shall we?
The title of the piece is mine, the rest is Argiope.
Not-So-Supreme Court Argument – Spitting Rage
by Argiope:
EMTALA passed in 1986 to prevent hospitals from turning away people who couldn’t pay during things like heart attacks or giving birth. It also requires hospitals to stabilize people with pregnancy emergencies, like ectopics and inevitable miscarriages with a high risk of sepsis, both of which are best treated by ending the pregnancy.
Along came post-Dobbs Idaho, where an extreme abortion ban was ready to go into effect the minute Roe fell.
Common-clay-of-the-new-West Idaho authoritahs decided not to honor EMTALA, and to direct their state’s physicians NOT to perform abortions that could save the health of the mother when doing so would go against Idaho’s bans.
The Biden administration then sued Idaho for non-compliance with EMTALA.
Meanwhile, Texas said, “Hold my beer, Idaho,” and sued the Biden administration back. They wanted to tie their own doctors’ hands similarly to Idaho, and conveniently forgot that Article VI, Paragraph 2 of the Constitution means that federal law overrides state law when these are in conflict.
That all leads us to April 24, when SCOTUS will hear the federal case against the state of Idaho and Solicitor General Preloger will try to legally prevent Idaho’s women from suffering unnecessarily.
Justices Alito and Thomas, who are not doctors but stayed in a Holiday Inn last night, will:
- Holler “State’s Rights” very loudly and insist that Idaho has a perfect right to cause infertility, hysterectomy, sepsis, and near death for its pregnant citizens.
- They’ll say Idaho has a right to prevent its physicians from doing what their Hippocratic oaths, medical judgment and common sense say they should.
Justice Fundy Baby Voice will of course:
- Acknowledge that ladies do have parts and be very concerned
- yet resolute in her conviction that fetal people have even MORE parts that count than grown-ass women do.
This is your regular reminder that safe, effective abortion pills are available by mail in all 50 states, and Idaho and Texas need them.
These pills are not gonna solve the issues EMTALA is meant to address, but they speak to why the Comstock Act, passed in 1873, needs to stay unenforced. Better yet, Dems should overturn the Comstock Act as soon as we have a trifecta again in January.
I am so sick of this Supreme Court. How did it even get this far?
Federal Law > State Law. End of story.
Update at 2:20 pm: I pulled this earlier as soon as I realized it was Day 1 of the NY Election Interference trial. Posting again now. First comment after repost is #14.
trollhattan
Okay, re-fristing this here.
Read more at: sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article287884335.html#storylink=cpy
ETA Nullification seems to be the Republican’s favorite chew toy and this lot in the USSC seem dazzled at opportunities to pitch in.
Anoniminous
tl;dr Conservativism:
12 year olds are mature enough to give birth but not mature enough to check a book out of a library.
jimmiraybob
SCOTUS test of US Constitution.
Was there a “long history and tradition” of US Constitutions in the British colonies?
No?
Null and void.
Next
Leto
@trollhattan: I posted this below in response to your post right here:
At what point do doctors stop working in these states? I mean, a whole slew of medical professions are potentially affected by this.
At what point does the medical profession as a whole say, “We cannot in good faith recommend our people practice in these states?” I don’t know if they would, but I feel like we’re fast approaching this inflection point.
Leto
@Anoniminous: we say that in the military as well: you’re old enough to operate this lethal weapon system, but not to have a drink. It’s essentially the same mind set, just worse with this.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Trump’s defense team is up. Blanche is referring to Trump as “President” Trump. He’s innocent, by the way according to Blanche
WaterGirl
@trollhattan:
Just reading that makes me livid.
WaterGirl
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Can you remind me? Is audio or video available, or do we have to rely on live blogging?
Old School
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I know people like to joke about how incompetent Trump’s lawyers are, but I’m not too surprised they remember what side to argue.
Timill
@WaterGirl: Should we have a Trump thread each day when the court is in session to avoid derailing the other threads?
WaterGirl
@Timill: Yeah, I was thinking something similar.
WaterGirl
I am all discombobulated this morning, and I (blissfully) forgot about the Trump trial. So I’m gonna pull this one before it gets any more comments and post it later when we are better able to focus.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
There’s no direct audio or video; there is live coverage – such as it is. For example, ABC News.
Recap coverage after coust session ends probably more valuable.
Frankensteinbeck
@Leto:
We have already passed that point. Red states are increasingly having trouble staffing any service that involves women’s health – which is most of them – because doctors don’t want to work where they’re not allowed to even try to help their patients.
WaterGirl
@Frankensteinbeck: @Leto:
Absurdity codified into law. Life-threatening absordity.
trollhattan
@Frankensteinbeck:
Liberty University’s new Turbocharged Medical School will be able to flood god-fearing confederate-loving states with doctors for the ladies, soon enough.
NB Did not take the time to look up whether they’re actually doing this. We could also get the University of Austin Medical School and Center for Seance.
Baud
@trollhattan:
Read that as re-fisting and thought it was too early for BJ After Dark.
TBone
@jimmiraybob: I think I just fell in love 😂
WaterGirl
@trollhattan:
NB?
trollhattan
@WaterGirl: Note Bene, kind of a turbocharged i.e.
Mousebumples
@WaterGirl: Latin
Citizen Alan
Buttery males. It always comes back to buttery males.
Leto
@Baud: after all the Pecker jokes?
@Frankensteinbeck: @trollhattan: can’t wait for red states and blue states to have two separate medical licensing boards:
Blue state: alright, here’s a science based back test that you need to pass. Best practices, latest findings, etc. Good luck!
Red state: alright, find in your Bible where it says you can’t treat genital warts. KJV only, none of this hippy NIV sacrilege!
(Yes, I know each state has their own licensing boards but you get the gist)
WaterGirl
@Mousebumples: Biting my tongue so as not to go off on a rant about abbreviations.
Martin
Thanks for posting this. I think the EMTALA case isn’t getting enough attention. I don’t think USSC will strike down the whole thing – I think whatsername Barrett and Roberts aren’t that committed to democratic turnout efforts – but I can see some kind of bullshit ‘in compliance with state law’ clause being glued on here, without consideration of the ramifications of that.
The interaction with abortion is bad enough but I guaranteed that multiple states will immediately legislate a carve out for hospitals to turn away undocumented and a carve out for hospitals to turn away people who can’t pay, and a broad carve out for ‘religious exceptions’. The law would get gutted.
But I don’t really see a situation where they allow federal supremacy on the one issue that they worked so hard to give all the authority to the states on. To back out on this idea would be to admit that Dobbs was a stupid decision. And to affirm EMTALA opens the door to federal definitions of ‘necessary healthcare’ which Dobbs specifically rejects.
sdhays
Didn’t the legal lights on the Arizona Supreme Court show the way on this, though? The EMTALA was passed while Roe was the law of the land – a different context, if you will – and now that it’s not, the previous Congress’ assumption of a right to an abortion no longer holds, and therefore that means there’s a carve out for abortion until Congress reaffirms that it meant to include abortion.
And then the Not-So-Supreme Court can take away the Federal government’s supremacy later, if necessary.
Leto
O/T: ACAB? Always.
UPDATED: Raleigh Cops Tell Judge that Allowing the Public to See Footage of a Botched Raid Would be “Dangerous”
Just pull out your police misconduct bingo card, and get ready to yell!
sdhays
I wonder if anyone who signed onto Alito’s embarrassing write-up has any second thoughts at all. I’m still gobsmacked that no one looked at him relying on an English Witch Judge as a legal authority and said, “You know, maybe I’ll write my own concurring opinion here.”
pat
@Anoniminous:
12 year olds are mature enough to give birth but not mature enough to check a book out of a library.
But they can work all day without a lunch break.
How do these monsters get elected?
Martin
@sdhays: We know they did. After all, it was leaked in order to head off those very problems.
sdhays
@Leto: You would think that something that “warrants” a “Quick Knock warrant” would be important enough to be very careful about which damn house the warrant was for.
I totally believe this type of thing happens all the time. Within the first year of moving into my current town house, I had the police knock on my door at 7am wanting to come in and set up a sniper toward the neighbor who’s house was behind mine. Before I answered, he was told by his colleague that their target house was actually right next to ours!
Pretty big fuck up when you’re talking about needing(?) a sniper? Glad they didn’t think my house was the target!
Sure Lurkalot
Party of cruelty, suffering and death.
trollhattan
@Leto: “Dangerous” for whom?
Our county sheriffs are very reticent about releasing body cam and dashboard video, with the city police marginally better. And if California won’t do it….
sdhays
@Martin: I’m not saying I’m surprised they agreed with the decision – I wasn’t surprised at all. I’m just still surprised that they were happy with (bullied into?) signing their name to a decision explicitly relying on Witch Judge Law.
None of them have a modicum of self respect? That was the best they could do? Just saying “because we said so” would have been less embarrassing (and more truthful).
Leto
@sdhays: the fact that it happens so much, “Oops, wrong house!”, and that departments continue to 1) do it and 2) not be held accountable for the destruction, is… maddening. I know that people freak out over “defund the police” and oh noes! Rampant crime everywhere and total anarchy… but at this point, will it? Really? As I’ve mentioned before, even though there’s a significant overlap with cops and military politically (conservative), we really, really don’t like each other and it comes down to how we view our roles in society.
@trollhattan: ACAB. At this point it just doesn’t matter. ACAB. I mean we all have that story of knowing that 1 good cop, but… everything surrounding law enforcement in this country is just fucked beyond belief. I think about this last season of Fargo and the whole sovereign citizen sheriff bullshit. And how that if even city cops don’t quite buy into that, they’re also not far off from that. And how multiple court rulings state that cops don’t have a duty to “protect and serve”. Idk. Lot of frustration.
gene108
@Old School:
His criminal defense lawyers aren’t incompetent. If they were more criminal trials would’ve occurred and he might even have been convicted by now.
He’s getting a return for the $100 million in legal fees.
Argiope
@Leto: I have a colleague who works in FL. Their very nutty Surgeon General has told all clinicians in the state not to recommend mRNA vaccines because in his completely non-scientifically-based, ideology-driven opinion, those vaccines are dangerous. He’s also not urging measles vaccines among susceptible people during a measles outbreak. That guy apparently signs off on medical licensure, at least according to my colleague. It’s kind of terrifying to practice in that environment.
WaterGirl
@Argiope: Horrifying.
gene108
@Leto:
Health outcomes between Republican and Democratic run states are diverging, with Dem states having improving health outcomes and R states worse outcomes.
It’ll be interesting to see how much more outcomes diverge post-Dobbs.
Leto
@Argiope: Oh, I remember your surgeon general. His thoughts/practices on corona, as well as what you’ve mentioned… how DeSantis hired him… just straight up malpractice, but here we are.
@gene108: I’ve mentioned this before, but it’s one of the reasons we won’t move back South. I mean there’s multitude, but this is a big one.
JoyceH
I just don’t understand the rationale of these states. If a woman is having a miscarriage, whether or not an abortion is performed, the outcome is NEVER going to be a healthy baby.
gvg
@Leto: Assume if they don’t want to release, they have something to hide, like invoking the fifth.
Voters need to hold them accountable.
WaterGirl
@JoyceH: It’s about controlling women, not concern for babies once they are born.
It’s about keeping those uppity women in their place, showing them who’s the boss.
Gretchen
Mike Pence has an opinion piece in the NYT today claiming that Democrats want taxpayer funded abortion up until the moment of birth, and the NYT just prints it as if it’s fact. And he’s calling for a national “standard” (not ban – they know people don’t want a ban). It’s infuriating that these people with no medical training feel ready to dictate how medical practice goes.
nytimes.com/2024/04/20/opinion/donald-trump-abortion.html?unlocked_article_code=1.mU0.aovf.JtdAQ3UGA…
Baud
@Gretchen:
Squish. The current talking point is that we want post birth abortions.
Gretchen
@JoyceH: they always claim to know someone whose water broke at 18 weeks but somehow continued the pregnancy until viability and had a 22 week baby who is now a healthy teenager. They never know someone who was denied care and died of sepsis, even though that’s the more likely outcome.
Gretchen
@Baud: so true. That just proves that he’s a sensible moderate and we have to do it his way. One side wants to ban all abortion, the other side wants to murder healthy newborns. Banning nearly all abortions is just compromise at work.
Gretchen
@WaterGirl: I’m loving seeing the term fundy baby voice make it into the mainstream. I think that the originator of the term is Jess Piper of Blue Missouri, who is working hard to make sure that no state legislative office goes uncontested. https://bluemissouri.org
Here’s her article on the fundie baby voice: jesspiper.substack.com/p/the-fundie-baby-voice
WaterGirl
@Gretchen: That article is going to make me angry, isn’t it?
edit: okay, I had read that one earlier. whew! It was a good article.
VFX Lurker
Some thoughts:
rikyrah
@Leto:
I think, for now, it’s a one-by-one basis. If I was a female medical student of child bearing years, and wanted children biologically.
There is no way that I would try for a residency in ANY of these Red States. The specialty doesn’t have to be OB-GYN.
If you are a woman doctor, would YOU trust your pre-natal care or anything to do with your pregnancy to a RED STATE?
YOU, more than the general public, knows how quickly things can go sideways medically for a pregnant woman.
rikyrah
@Gretchen:
Jess Piper rocks!!
Leto
@rikyrah: true, regarding women of any medical profession. True.
Regarding things going medically sideways: Avalune was sick for her entire pregnancy. I mean, she threw up for the entire thing. One of the things we had to really focus on, was the foods she was able to keep down and her vitamins to make sure that the boy was progressing as he should. Part of her food assistance was WIC, because we were both broke ass college students. So thank everyone for that because that was so crucial for both of them getting the sustenance they needed.
Next up: her water broke early at the 7 1/2 month maker. When we got the hospital, and told them the original due date, they kept asking us, “Are you sure? Are you sure you have the correct date?” Both of us nodded and responded in unison, “Yes the date we were told was X, we’ve had that confirmed a few times.” He was a premie baby. Luckily he came out at 6lbs. That was another reason they kept asking us, “Are you sure you had the right date?” “Yes…” He spent about 48 hours in the NICU as a precaution, but overall he was fine.
Now he did have a few things pop up later on down the road, that were probably directly attributed to his early release date. But by that time I was in the military, had proper health care, and could get doctors to look at him and take corrective action.
But all of that… from the time he was conceived to the time he was out of the house at 19… conservatives wouldn’t have done a damn thing to help. WIC? They’re trying to eliminate that as hard as they can. Complications during birth? Good luck… ensuring that mom/child have post-birth healthcare, as well as proper education, food, shelter, all of that? You know this, we know this, they’re the anti-life party at every step of the way. And the need to be hammered as such every single damned day.
Idk, maybe some of the women/family who flee to blue states for basic medical care can find refuge there. Realize that there’s nothing for them back in red states and come to the blues. We still have issues here, but we’re not trying to actively kill you with every policy. If you don’t do it for yourselves, do it for your kids.
Rathskeller
@rikyrah:
That was a great article (on the baby fundy voice).
She posted yesterday about some low-level harrassment in MO of people trying to get petitions signed. A state senator and some minions were directly challenging people who had been offered a chance to sign a pro-choice opinion. They directly told some people not to sign the petition.
I’ve seen a lot of bullshit over the years, but this is disturbing and novel.
sdhays
Dead people are a lot less talkative at
partiesBible Study.rikyrah
Miranda (@DoomScroling) posted at 1:12 PM on Mon, Apr 22, 2024:
In a WIN for protecting people who travel for reproductive care, the Biden administration has issued a new rule which states that Drs cannot give medical records of patients to law enforcement of other states.
In other words, if someone from TX travels to CO for an abortion, Drs in CO will not be permitted to give TX law enforcement that patient’s medical records.
This is a rule change intended to protect patients who travel to states where abortions are legal to have an abortion as several gop lawmakers & AGs have stated they want to prosecute women who travel for care.
t.co/6qEZ9xvT0i
(https://x.com/DoomScroling/status/1782472627761598615?t=mWUcryySfxdaDWXHkZiUNw&s=03)
prostratedragon
@Baud: Only some …
WaterGirl
@rikyrah: Smart to make a rule. We need to make sure Biden wins again.
I think Joe is going to go down as one of the most effective presidents in history.
I gotta get out of this place
What gets me is that no one dem in congress (or on tv) states the obvious – republicans can’t be pro-life if they’re pro-death penalty. Any red state that hasn’t done away with the death penalty can’t call themselves pro-life! Talk about an oxymoron.
WaterGirl
@I gotta get out of this place: Good point about the death penalty. An even bigger point, I think, is that the Rs display no concern for a child once it’s born.