Lesson of Donald Trump's plan: say you're soaking the rich, even though you're actually not, and talking heads will repeat your claim anyway
— Catherine Rampell (@crampell) September 29, 2015
Best headline on the internet today: http://t.co/3LApdPaWoR
— Megan McArdle (@asymmetricinfo) September 28, 2015
Trump's tax plan is neither populist nor deficit neutral. Just because he claims otherwise doesn't make it so. http://t.co/zRjFRQBWEm
— Catherine Rampell (@crampell) September 29, 2015
Donald Trump's plan is a big, budget-busting tax cut for the rich, even hedge fund managers. http://t.co/cclioBZuBz
— Josh Barro (@jbarro) September 28, 2015
If a tax plan cuts top rate – and ends the estate tax – that's a big boost to wealthiest, no matter carried interest http://t.co/5yRnTvvmOY
— Mark Murray (@mmurraypolitics) September 28, 2015
1) Looking at what few details of Trump tax plan are available, basic contours very much like Jeb!'s & Mitt 2012.
http://t.co/M9vJX4x6xX
— Billmon (@billmon1) September 28, 2015
Proof that Trump's tax plan stinks–Grover Norquist supports it–just like he supported all of Bush's tax cuts. http://t.co/bSUKKTgWOD
— Bruce Bartlett (@BruceBartlett) September 28, 2015
If you want to argue details, there’s plenty included in the articles linked above. But since EvenTheVerySerious professionals — including contrarian indicator Megan McArgleBargle — have reached a consensus that Trump’s plan is the same old manure in a shiny new gilt-plated bucket, I feel my job here is done.
OzarkHillbilly
I am shocked, shocked I tell you.
Frank Bolton
I wonder if Trump is doing this because he wants an injection of plutocratic ca$h into his campaign. He has to be noting that the media isn’t as obsequious and breathless as it was a month, two months ago. After all, there was very little upside for the overclass-wing to support his campaign until these tax plans go released.
On the other hand, I think that it’s going to backfire for him. The VSP courtiers are still in full ‘take down Trump, by any means possible’ mode, as we can see from their (in context, not so-)surprising skepticism towards his plans — plans which they fawned over in the past.
Jeffro
All Trump did, all he wanted to do, was to have his plan be an order of magnitude YOOOOOUUUUUGER than Jeb!’s, and that’s exactly what it is (which is kind of amazing, since Jeb!’s is W’s tax cuts on steroids)
Ordinarily, I’d say something dumb at this point, like “Trump’s going to lose a few percentage points of support over this”, but there is absolutely no one on the GOP side with a remotely honest tax reform plan, one that asks more of the wealthy, one that ends some of the bigger obscenities in our tax code (like carried interest). None. So where would they go? Other things will knock him down by degrees (like Rubio insulting him and consolidating the anti-Trump side) but this ain’t it.
Amir Khalid
The Donald’s youthful misadventures probably included the theft of other kids’ homework, so I can’t say this surprises me.
Baud
It’s compassionate conservatives all the way down.
Frank Bolton
@Jeffro: By itself, it won’t hurt him. The problem is that Trump is creating an opening for another populist white supremacist to occupy the space he left.
Fortunately for Trump, the GOP establishment has a much tighter grip on the rest of the field than they do on him, so there’s little chance of that happening. The only one who could even attempt to mount a challenge would Cruz, since he can actually raise a not-pathetic amount of money from small donors. Note Cruz has his own set of obstacles that would prevent him from picking up the flag of classical fascism, like being the third-biggest ‘cuckservative’ in the eyes of the neo-nazis next to Huckabee and Bush.
mai naem mobile
OT – Jeezus, the Republicans at the Planned Parenthood.hearing are real assholes. I know that’s not news but where are the assholes on the Dem side? I want more 47% tapes.
Baud
@mai naem mobile:
Baud! 2016!
Turgidson
Wait, McArdle thinks Trump’s plan is shit? That makes me wonder if we’re not all missing something. She’s not quite as reliable in her always-wrongness as Bloody Bill WRONG Kristol, but she’s no slouch.
Baud
@Turgidson:
I think she thinks Trump is shit. If an establishment candidate adopted Trump’s plan verbatim, she would think it was written with the hand of god.
Tripod
Ann Romney is up on yahoo in a Katie Couric interview. They may well be positioning Mittster as a white knight – not that the GOP’s know-nothing voters would be buying that bullshit, but the moneyed elites might be starting to pucker up about their options going nowhere fast.
maya
That seals it – Jeb! Trump for president.
azlib
I guess we are back to deficits do not matter again, as if they ever did with this crowd.
trollhattan
@Baud:
Bingo!
Anybody-but-Donald would hew a, “This seems very promising on first glance, and I’ll have to run some numbers to evaluate it further before I say anything more.”
i.e., “Yee-haw, hubby gets a raise so I’m making a pitcher of mojitos in the Thermomix.”
maya
@Turgidson:
No tax break on pink Himalayan salt.
PaulW
When push comes to shove, every Republican candidate is gonna push a tax-cuts budget now and forever and always until they come out with a tax plan where the upper 1 percent gets a zero percent tax rate. At which point American voters *might* wake up to the reality that trickle-down supply-side Laffer Curve fantasy-based budgeting is all bullsh-t.
PaulW
@maya:
so we’re talking stem-cell cloning or straight-up Brundlefly teleporter accident?
PaulW
@azlib:
it only matters when they can blame deficits on Democrats. Obviously.
hells littlest angel
Few if any of the Tweeters cited can be fairly characterized as “EvenTheVerySerious professionals.” I respect both Rampell and Barro as honest opinionators. But, yeah, my shocked face has gotten severely overworked by all the Trump-is-full-of-shit stories.
Josie
@mai naem mobile: You should listen to Elijah Cummings rip into the Republicans for bringing up Ms. Richards salary. It is in a diary on DKos and will make you feel much better:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/09/29/1425917/-Rep-Elijah-Cummings-eviscerates-GOP-Chairman-for-Planned-Parenthood-salary-hypocrisy
trollhattan
@Josie:
Oh. Damn. He brought the wood.
goblue72
@Turgidson: She’s a Koch paid-for shill. The Kochs want Trump out of the way, so that somebody they can buy will take the lead. She’s just doing what she’s paid to do – shill for Koch. Its not like she has any other marketable skill.
maya
@PaulW: Nope. Simple corporate merger.
joes527
@PaulW:
Why do you think 0 is a hard limit for them?
Two words: refundable credits.
kc
Does no one remember how the media let George W. Bush get away with lying his ass about his tax plan?
Peale
Trumps biggest monied ally has been his “future treasury secretary” Carl Icahn. Carl’s been interviewing about how the rich would pay more taxes. I would like someone to ask him if he was lying or just used?
srv
Since when did liberals care about deficit neutrality?
What’s a few more trillion to the deficit to you? It’s just monopoly money to you people.
Germy Shoemangler
@Peale: Lying, most likely, like everyone else in Trump’s circle. And the idiots waving signs at his rallies are lying to themselves.
Shantanu Saha
In Trump’s defense, his tax plan would bankrupt the country at record speed, so the eventual revolution would not only be advanced more quickly, but also have little in the way of organized government to oppose it.
Archon
The good news is lefty bloggers have done a good job the past couple cycles of thrashing Republicans tax plans to pieces. Without that the establishment press would still be calling Jeb Bush and Trump’s plan “populist”.
Benw
I think we still come out ahead with Prez Trump. If we elect Jeb! we have to add the cost of invading Iran to the debt as well. All things being equal, if rather just give the extra billions directly to rich Americans like Trump’s proposing, rather than launder the dollars through American war contractors back into the pockets of American millionaires.
Peale
Anyway, the issue with Bushes tax plan if I recall was that it eliminated or capped state and mortgage tax deductions so would adversely affect middle class taxpayers. Who lowers taxes on the rich the most doesn’t really matter to republican voters as long as they don’t have to pay for it. So I’m thinking this plan is a nothing burger as far as primary voters are concerned.
guachi
@srv:
Out of the last 14 elections, seven have been won by Democrats and seven by Republicans. Only one of those seven Republican terms ended with lower deficits as a percentage of GDP than they started with. All seven Democratic terms ended (or are predicted to end) with lower deficits. Every. Single. One.
Keith G
So, I am guessing AL has a twitter account. Okay.
trollhattan
@guachi:
“There you go again” with your fancypants facts and such.
Baud
@guachi:
Yeah, but who made things better for those people, which is what the deficit really means?
skerry
@Josie: I love me some Elijah. I’m so happy to be able to vote for him.
NotMax
…and a yooge chicken in every pot.
srv
Sam Harris says Pope Pius’ Jesuit ninjas tried to Hitler.
You know who else liked those things?
piratedan
@guachi: this stfu moment has been brought to you by Nabisco…..
BillinGlendaleCA
@NotMax:
Frankensteinbeck
I don’t think this will make any difference at all. Trump’s tax plan could be a paper with LOLOLOLOLOL written on it. His base has demonstrated that they don’t give a wild fuck about his policies, or any conservative dogma, as long as he occasionally says something openly, hatefully, undeniably bigoted. Since I always figured they saw conservative dogma as the closest thing they could get to the white supremacy they really wanted, I haven’t been surprised so far. Well, I was surprised by one thing – that someone finally let the cat out of the bag.
MomSense
@mai naem mobile:
I’m really trying to keep my anger in check but those motherfucking republicans can take their no brain, condescending, paternalistic bullshit and shove it.
They have not one ounce of care or concern for the wellbeing of babies, children, or their mothers once they are born. They don’t care if they have hungry bellies, live in squalor, and have no means for being educated and nurtured to their full potential. They are cynically playing the fetus fetishists and Christianist freaks for their own power, opportunity, and money.
Mike in NC
Trump’s fans don’t give a rat’s ass about his tax “plan”. If it called for a regressive flat tax where every person in America paid the same rate (perennial Republican wet dream) and their taxes actually went up, that would be OK as long as he promised to build The Wall and boot out all the wetbacks and other Not Real Americans.
Gimlet
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trent-franks-abortion-slavery
Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ) said his fellow House conservatives understand the value of human life like those who fought for the freedom of slaves.
“The last issue that tore us apart like this was slavery,” Franks said. “And it’s the same argument. Those that were for slavery said, ‘Well there’s not really a person here. There’s no person involved here.’ The Supreme Court said the same thing, just like they did in Roe vs. Wade. But there were those who understood that the foundational core principal that made this country what it was is that we believe that all of us are created, and that makes us equal.”
Kay
@MomSense:
Interesting, though, that it doesn’t seem to be working:
They attribute it to “so many women having personal experience with the organization” and maybe that’s true, but I wonder if it’s also because Republicans tried the same thing in 2011.
Patricia Kayden
So when will Jebbie! call Trump out for this thievery? That could be very entertaining when Trump hits back.
Didn’t think that Republicans could outdo the Clown Car of 2012 but they really have this time around.
piratedan
@Gimlet: obviously Franks missed 7th grade science were things like pupa stages and cocoons and birth were discussed. It’s not a butterfly until it emerges from the cocoon Trent, just like it isn’t a “baby” until it’s born. For fucks sake, if they’re that demented, how come they don’t issue SSN numbers and voter registration cards to the unborn if you still consider them people, just like corporations….
gah these fuckers make me wonder how in the fuck does anyone vote for them.
Patricia Kayden
@Gimlet: Abortions are perfectly legal (with restrictions) in the U.S. so it’s not just like slavery. Plus, no one in their right minds believes that Republicans care about children — they only care about forcing women to give birth. After the birth of the child, the woman is on her own.
srv
@guachi: You liberals and your numbers. So when Trump runs a $1.4T deficit his first year like Obama, but ends up at $1.3T after eight years…. Winning!
Gimlet
@piratedan:
And where do all those unbaptized fetus souls go now that they’ve closed down Limbo?
Patricia Kayden
@srv: You’re still running your mouth? You do know that this is a liberal/progressive blog right? Why aren’t you at Stormfront or Redstate or some other rightwing haven where you belong?
But please make sure you come back after Secretary Clinton wins in November 2016. Post a picture of you crying. In fact a video would be better. LOL.
JPL
@Patricia Kayden: Slavery was legal in our country but the rest of your comment is spot on.
Baud
@Kay:
These guys don’t care about polls because their party hasn’t been punished by voters. They are like spoiled children.
Cervantes
And thanks!
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@piratedan:
I am completely convinced that if I stood up at a Republican townhall with the candidates and asked, “What does a Pap smear test for?” not a single one of the current candidates could answer correctly, and that includes Carly and Dr. Carson.
Patricia Kayden
@srv: How many billions of $$$ did you and your warmongering Republicans spend in Iraq in a needless war? How many Iraqis were killed by Cheney and company? How many American service members lost their limbs and lives for an unnecessary war?
How many jobs were lost under the Bush administration? How did Bush squander the surplus that he inherited from President Clinton?
There are no Republicans alive who have anything to say about deficits — not now and not ever. Your party has destroyed the American economy whenever they’re in the White House. Try again.
Anoniminous
@srv:
Goddamn numbers. Reality is a bitch, ain’t it?
Kay
@Baud:
They seem to have a particular tone deafness on “womens issues” though. That’s really where they have spectacular crack-ups. Remember the all-male panel ‘o clerics they seated on birth control? Jesus. They’re political professionals. No one said “boy, that looks bad”.
It’s almost like they don’t really listen to women :)
Cervantes
@Baud:
Considering she’s a child of the Kochs, you may well be right.
Baud
@Kay:
They listen to plenty of women. It’s just that the women they listen to echo what they want to hear.
piratedan
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): well it’s as if these folks were busy coasting along and never passed 6th grade civics, 7th grade science et al. I’m not sure have of these gentlemen would make it past the 2nd round of “Are you smarter than a 5th grader” and here they are “representing us” and their supposed fear for the safety of the unborn. If there was a way to sell a fetus a gun to protect itself, I’m sure that would be on a House bill tomorrow, but they would refuse the funding for the operations….
Roger Moore
@Gimlet:
See, they have it backward. The Supreme Court recognized that the pregnant woman is a person who should have control over her own body. The fetus fetishists want to claim that the fetus has rights as a person, but the pregnant woman doesn’t.
Gimlet
@Roger Moore:
I’m sure they’ll give all those little feti a specially written tax break in their legislation.
Cervantes
@srv:
Those are exactly the rhetorical devices you should be using if you’re trying to expose yourself as a fool.
Otherwise don’t.
Kay
@Baud:
I went to a Democratic womens meeting in Cleveland in 2010 (or something, around then) and Cecile Richards was the speaker. She’s really smart and very confident.
Gimlet
@Kay:
Has anyone mentioned yet she’s the daughter of the late Ann Richards from Texas?
Baud
@Kay:
She needs to be.
Cervantes
@Kay:
It was in 2011, after the mid-terms that brought the Tea Party in.
Kay
@Roger Moore:
They should give up on comparisons. The Supreme Court gave up, and there’s nothing courts like better than THIS is like THIS, so let’s do THIS. They dealt with the reality, which is that it’s not “like” anything else.
Not acorns ‘n oak trees, not slavery, not the Holocaust. Pregnancy and abortion is unique. Just deal with the thing itself, and stop reaching for compare/contrast.
Kay
@Gimlet:
I knew it but I haven;t read that this time. She’s a good speaker. She has that Texas thing where they love Texas, but that’s almost a given. That state seems to inspire more devotion than any other. They’re crazy about the place.
Baud
@Kay:
Not even like a bun in the oven?
MomSense
@Kay:
I bet there are a lot of women looking at that mess of a hearings and thinking that those men should shut their mouths and leave it alone.
Cervantes
@Baud:
Maybe if it were all about storks and their bundles, and women were to use guns to shoot down the storks, then abortion, even late-term, would be OK.
Kay
@Baud:
My daughter is taking graduate science classes at U of Pittsburgh. She likes her instructor, it’s microbiology or something, and some wingnut in the room tried to hijack a discussion of stem cell research by saying “Planned Parenthood does fetal research, don’t they?” You remember fake questions that were really opinions in college, I’m sure. It was always so obvious the person was just pontificating.
She said the instructor shut her right down “Planned Parenthood is a clinic, and that’s not what we’re talking about”.
NOT like a clinic. No. Wrong.
Baud
@Cervantes:
I would love to re-read your comment while high, but I don’t do drugs.
@Kay:
I would have said “we just found out first vivisection volunteer.”
Tim C.
@Gimlet: Ahhh so she is a Jedi, like her mother before her.
Anoniminous
@Kay:
The ultimate problem with Conservatives. They don’t know what they are talking about and they don’t want to learn.
P.S. “Microbiology or something.” Perhaps Molecular Biology?
Iowa Old Lady
@Kay: I think Richards is on Maddow’s show tonight. I was very impressed by how calm and unrattled she was while Chaffetz was grilling her. I couldn’t have done that.
Cervantes
@Baud:
Improves all my comments, actually.
JPL
@Iowa Old Lady: Thanks for the information.
raven
@Iowa Old Lady: yes
Baud
@Cervantes:
Touchè.
Anoniminous
According to Pew Research women lean Democratic by 52%-36%. Which is good. Unfortunately they “lean” Democratic. According to the WaPo women vote in higher numbers than men. The problem is young women are less likely to turn out; the average participation rate for 18 – 29 year olds is 21% in mid-terms and 45% in presidential elections. These are the people who are most affected by the GOP’s War on Women and they stand aside.
I don’t get it.
Bobby Thomson
@srv: Ted Kennedy?
Right to Rise
This should be the loadstar of tax policy:
“Don’t punish success. Reward it”.
Jeb’s plan does just that and in a more fiscally responsible, serious matter than Trump and his clown show.
Patrick
@srv:
Since when did conservatives care about deficit neutrality?
What’s a few more trillion to the deficit to you? It’s just monopoly money to you people. Hell, during Bush there was supplemental funding every six months to the war with very little debate. A war that has cost in excess of a $trillion dollars. But to right-wingers it is just monopoly money.
Right to Rise
BTW, Jeb justlanded a big fundraising fish in the form of an ex-Scott Walker donor.
The Brinks trucks are beginning to back in to Jeb’s driveway…Brinks…trucks.
And Trump is going to have his hand forced soon. He’s going to have to literally put his money where his mouth is and start self-financing.
Trump has his fortune, but Jeb has a fundraising base as bottomless than a bread basket at the Olive Garden.
Patrick
@Iowa Old Lady:
They made a mockery of her salary. Has the GOP House EVER asked another head of any organization how much their salary is?
Baud
@Right to Rise:
I’m feeding you because it’s slow tonight. What’s your take on Rubio, who seems to be the current non-Jeb for establishment guys looking for an alternative?
Omnes Omnibus
@Right to Rise: Ew, used donors. I hope Jebbie has some handiwipes.
Soylent Green
No worries. After Trump cuts federal revenues, he will just get Mexico to make up the difference.
dmsilev
@Baud: With a slogan like “vote for Jeb; his fundraisers have all the taste and texture of an Olive Gardens bread-like product!” on his side, how can you even ask about alternative candidates?
Anoniminous
@Right to Rise:
Exactly. As Marx said, “The basis of Socialism is: from each according to their ability, to each according to their work.”
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: He has ass wipes like R2R.
Right to Rise
@Baud:
(1) Rubio lacks gravitas. He looks like he just graduated college and is playing dress-up in Daddy’s suit. Get him off his prepared script and the amateurism and lack of experience really shows.
(2) Marco Rubio lacks the Bush name and contact network. He’s also a pariah in his home state now that he jumped rank on Jeb. Rubio was supposed to run for president in 2024 and be a placeholder for George P. Everyone in FL GOP political circles knows this. He just destroyed his career by jumping rank.
(3) Jeb Bush has executive experience. Rubio resembles Barack Obama, young, first-term Senator with limited experience and has never run anything so much as a lemonade stand. That’s a negative in GOP circles.
(4) Jeb has been through tough political battles, i.e. charter school reform in Florida Charter schools in Florida open up with every new suburban development now! Some are even for-profit. This is Jeb’s biggest victory and he’s going to talk about it more. It will go great in the general election: Jeb for the children, Democrats for teacher’s unions and cushy public jobs on the taxpayer dime. Private sector innovation. Disruptive forces such as MMOCs and etc. Future vs. past. A great issue, and destroys a key Democrat interest group in the process, and as a bonus there are billions to be made in education reform.
(5) Marco Rubio Super PAC + campaign cash= $45,200,000
Impressive, no? But look at Jeb’s haul of Super PAC + campaign cash: $119,900,000
And that’s before the Walker cash infusion.
BRINKS. TRUCKS. .
Schlemazel
@Right to Retch:
UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH!!
Remind me,how’d that work out for Mitt?
Right to Rise
@Schlemazel:
Who won the nomination last time?
Who?
Say his name, beyatch.
Bobby Thomson
@Right to Rise: the word you wanted to use is lodestar
@Right to Rise:
“as bottomless than”? Syntax, motherfucker, do you use it?
Don’t just mail it in, son.
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: Nicely done.
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus:
Same person — Walker’s guy — was also a Romney donor, and before that an Obama donor.
Baud
@Right to Rise:
That was a detailed response. Thanks. FWIW, like you, I would like to see Jeb win the nomination.
raven
@Right to Rise: Hey motherfucker, don’t you be sweatin my boy or I’ll be on your ass like white on rice.
dmsilev
@Right to Rise: You were blathering about UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH! VICTORY! in the general election part of 2012.
President Romney has been strangely low-profile ever since November 2012.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes: Not in this election cycle, one would hope.
Right to Rise
@dmsilev:
Obama won for two reasons that won’t be available for Hillary: first, Sandy. Second, elderly black women turned out in larger numbers than normal. Mostly for nostalgia reasons about civil rights.
Hillary won’t have either advantage. Black turnout will be way, way down with a boring white candidate. And GOP turnout will be up.
Hillary is Satan to the GOP base, even the part that actively hates Bush. They’ll turn out just to see the bitch go down once and for all. And when it comes to that last statement, as Broadway Joe once said, I guarantee it!.
Right to Rise
Running on education reform will really be the key though.
School reform and pushing charters and testing accountability will be the central domestic issue for Jeb when he’s the nominee in the Fall Campaign of 2016.
That’s why I never got why some in the base dislike Common Core. It can be the springboard to federal backing of charter schools/vouchers, and a Democrat interest group can be annihilated.
Bobby Thomson
@Omnes Omnibus: he’s one of Obama’s 2008 Wall Street donors who got butt hurt by Obama’s rhetoric and jumped ship in 2010.
Baud
@Right to Rise:
Not tax reform?
Mike in NC
Read an online article today that said GOP strategists are calling the panic inside JEBzzz camp now 7 on a scale of 10.
Omnes Omnibus
@Right to Rise: I seem to recall you guaranteeing a Romney win in the 2012 general election. I don’t put much stock in your guarantees.
Baud
@Mike in NC:
The concern level has been raised to orange.
Right to Rise
@Baud:
Secondary.
Jeb will run as the Education President. That’s the plan. Take an issue Democrats are traditionally viewed positively on (education) and make it a liability. It’s downright…what’s that word…Rovian. ‘
Do you remember?
Patrick
@Right to Rise:
Really? So the worst economy since the Depression had absolutely nothing to do with it?
BTW – Do you see any possibility that women might turn out in bigger number because of Hillary?
It is interesting how you right-wingers call Hillary derogatory names because she is a woman. You are about as bad of a cheerleader for Jeb Bush as there could be. The war on women is obviously not over considering your postings filled with name-calling.
Right to Rise
@Mike in NC:
[citation needed]
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: This time you were quick enough.
Patrick
@Mike in NC:
Interesting article from Politico earlier today:
Right to Rise
@Patrick:
Twenty-Twelve. Not 2008.
Single mothers, lesbians and etc will turnout in higher numbers to vote for her but traditionalist, married women will turnout in numbers just as big to counter them and V-O-T-E G-O-P as they always do.
The divide isn’t women vs. men. It’s single women and/or lesbians vs. married women. Married women with kids are rock-ribbed Republican.
Right to Rise
@efgoldman:
The base will fall in line.
Jeb ran on charters as Florida governor. He’s passionate about kids and education reform.
He will run on it as president.
Notice how he hasn’t budged on Common Core. He really wants to help educate children. As the father of Latinos, he’s especially sensitive to the achievement gap and the failing “schools” (really prisons) that are in the inner city, propped up by teacher’s unions.
Can’t you just envision that ad, backed by a multi-million dollar buy? Jeb Bush, first in English, then in Spanish, saying something along those lines with smiling children in the background, perhaps contrasted with scowling teacher union leaders in black-and-white.
Baud
@Right to Rise:
W. ran as the education president as well as the tax cut president, so I was curious what issue Jeb would emphasize.
Gin & Tonic
@efgoldman: DougJ already denied it explicitly.
some guy
today’s battle in the GOP War on Women was a resounding success. Thanks,now lets see to it that Trey Gowdy gets a leadership role.
the thugs are trying to make this a cakewalk for Hillary.
dmsilev
@Right to Rise:
Bullshit.
Obama had a steady lead all summer and fall (c.f. the summary of Nate Silver’s model predictions, long before the hurricane hit, and ‘elderly black women’ aren’t a huge demographic.
Right to Rise
@efgoldman:
And I remember when your side was delusional enough to scream that the election was “stolen” in 2004 by Satanic Diebold machines controlled by Dick Cheney’s death rays or some such ridiculous horseshit. That was fun!
some guy
the jokes, they just write themselves.
Patrick
@Right to Rise:
Like they did in 2012, when not enough of them showed up to vote? The GOP base wants a REAL conservative, not a fake one like Jeb (or like George W, or George Sr).
Right to Rise
@dmsilev:
Every demographic is a huge demographic in swing states. Electioneering 101, folks.
Asians probably lost Romney Virginia, and they’re a tiny demographic nationally but an important one in a swing state.
dexwood
Donald is a circus ringmaster, a barker, nothing more.
Oh man, is that Jeb? guy still pissing in the stream here? Minimum wage troll and overpaid.
Right to Rise
@dmsilev:
Romeny was surging strong off of his first debate performance until Sandy. The map was even expanding.
Without Sandy those polls would have closed and Romney would ave won big in the last week like Reagan in 1980.
raven
The bat signal got changed to asshole douchebags and they are streaming in.
Patrick
@Right to Rise:
That’s just silly. If debates made such a big difference, then John Kerry (who won every debate against Bush) would have become our President in 2004.
Gin & Tonic
@raven: Can’t figure out why people who should know better engage with a useless turd.
Princess
Who’d be the easiest to beat? I think Jeb; and Fiorina. Both of them would make any of Hillary’s negatives melt. Jeb; (I’ve moved from the question mark to a semi-colon. I don’t think he has the personality to sustain a full question mark) disposes of the dynasty problem, and Fiorina will make anyone look warm and personable.
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
Like I said, it was real slow here when I started.
Right to Rise
@Patrick:
He did win the all-important Ohio Exit Polls, LOL!
Kay
@Right to Rise:
Standardized testing is really unpopular with parents. Ohio had to seat a commission and reduce testing time just 2 months ago. There’s also a multi-faceted charter school scandal in Ohio that has generated about a scathing newspaper editorial a day since June, so by all means, run on that. This is the Cleveland paper today, but it doesn’t matter- Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown. Columbus, Toledo- it’s daily:
This is a good headline for Bush’s edu-launch, don’t you think?
Does Bush know anything about these states he’s visiting? He’s been out of the loop for a while. Education is more than union-busting and shouting “government schools!” over and over again, which I think Christie and Walker discovered.
Right to Rise
@Kay:
Suburban parents have no reason to worry. The high-stakes testing and charters are mostly for low-income areas, and those moms (no use in saying “parents” since 99% of the time in urban schools there’s only one) don’t vote.
Charters pushed in suburban areas are very different, and the suburban traditional public schools will easily sail past the testing benchmark scores.
Accountability, creative disruption, innovation, and choice. The three keywords of Jeb’s education reform.
dmsilev
@Right to Rise: And then Obama handed him his ass in the second and third debates.
“Please proceed, Governor”.
Besides, what’s your argument? The country saw Obama exhibiting effective leadership at a moment of regional crisis, and this is somehow unfair? I urge you to have your candidate run on the slogan of “Jeb! He’ll handle natural disasters every bit as well as his brother did!”.
Frankensteinbeck
@Princess:
I think Trump would be the easiest to beat, because there’s no coming back from a -50 favorability with hispanic voters. After him, I think Jeb:( would be easiest to beat, because whoever gets the R nomination will have the same piles of cash, and Jeb:( is just a fantastically shitty campaigner. He has all the advantages, and can’t even manage the ‘not-Trump’ role.
raven
@Gin & Tonic: They’re bored.
Gin & Tonic
Poor Mitt. He coulda been a contender.
Omnes Omnibus
@Right to Rise:
Awesome.
Patrick
@Right to Rise:
And Romney won the critical Karl Rove FoxNews exit poll, LOL
Kay
@Baud:
:)
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
Ha. I’m tempted to go see if that’s how it’s written on Jeb’s website.
Anoniminous
@Omnes Omnibus:
AND a fanatical devotion to the Pope.
Mike in NC
@Right to Rise:
(1) Sources demand anonymity, as always in politics.
(2) Links are available six inches north of your asshole. Stick your hand in and grope.
Right to Rise
@Mike in NC:
IOW, you made it up.
Patrick
@efgoldman:
Teri Schiavo is why I could never vote for Jeb. I believe in small government, not a tyrannical government. What Jeb Bush attempted to do to Michael Schiavo should have been criminal.
Omnes Omnibus
@Anoniminous: “Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms – Oh damn!”
Anoniminous
@Baud:
Buzzword list from Idiot Boy’s Foundation for Excellence in Education
Kay
@Anoniminous:
Maybe. We don’t actually talk about her schoolwork. We talk about people we like or don’t like in her classes :)
We don’t like that one student, with the fake question.
Mike in NC
@Omnes Omnibus: JEBzzz entire background in education consisted of getting a BA degree in Latin American Studies. A slightly more rigorous curriculum than basketweaving. He apparently lusted after hot Latinas but had to settle for considerably less than Selma Hayek.
Zinsky
The arrogance of these rich pricks, who inherited their wealth in the first place, astounds me. Do they really think they can live in the greatest country in the world and not have to pay a nickel for the privilege of doing so?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike in NC: Let’s say nothing bad about hot Latinas.
Kay
@Anoniminous:
There was a scandal in Maine with his foundation. The reporter won an award. Does Maine have anything to do with New Hampshire? Can we just say “that scandal in New Hampshire (or was it Maine?) anyway, that Jeb Bush Foundation scandal in…New England”
Anoniminous
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m supposed to be at a concert of Bartok and Beethoven string quartets. Instead I have a case of the creeping crud and reading vacuous RtR nonsense.
So my sense of humor is shot.
NotMax
@Right to Rise
Brink’s, clodhopper. With an apostrophe.
Dictionaries are not expensive. And Google is free.
Anoniminous
@Kay:
Rightyho.
I asked because the silliness would have almost have made sense in a Molecular Biology class, not so much in Micro.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Right to Rise:
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/jeb-bush-2016-donors-republicans-214166
Anoniminous
@Kay:
Since the whole thing was a scam I’m not surprised.
Cervantes
@NotMax:
You have seen their logo, I assume.
Kay
I saw ten minutes of Bill Clinton’s interview on CNN. I forgot about him. He was good in the interview. He has almost a childish way of inserting facts he knows into conversations- it’s kind of endearing, like a smart 9 year old. He told Erin Burnett the Pope is a Jesuit. Thank you, Bill, for that information. Noted.
It’s fun to watch “a natural”, at anything really, and he is good at talking.
He’s now ready to campaign for Hillary, I would like to announce. That’s what he said.
NotMax
@Right to Rise
Translation: Jeb!’s gotta latch onto something to grease brother Neil’s palms and shovel moolah into his cruddy education company.
After all, Neil is still persona non grata insofar as banking goes.
NotMax
@Cervantes
Precisely why one of the links was to the company site to demonstrate how they refer to themselves (even the code for the logo on their own site includes the apostrophe, too).
Kay
@efgoldman:
I knew someone was going to object to that :)
Anoniminous
@efgoldman:
I oscillate between being mesmerized, annoyed, enthralled, and bored when listening to Bartok. Invoking humor wasn’t his strong point.
Frank Bolton
@Right to Rise:
They will? Exit polls from the past three elections show otherwise. Aside from showing white turnout dropping as a whole by about 1.5% every four years since 2004 (and outside the South, that’s considerably higher), the GOP has been steadily losing ground with whites outside the South and Appalachia. The Rockies is invisible right now because we’re talking about a drop to a 10-15% margin in a lot of these states as opposed to 20-25% margin, but that’s still a pretty big drop, one that spells trouble for the Republican Party in the Senate. More imminent, however, is that in the Midwest and Northeast the Republicans have been slipping steadily on Minnesota, Michigan, Iowa, Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New Hampshire — all heavily white states, one where they can’t use the excuse of racial minorities not voting for the GOP to explain their slackening performance. The only white swing state that the Republicans have really moved into their column since 2000 is Missouri.
Hell, 2012 was the first year in a damn long time where Democrats won working class whites in the Midwest. I don’t think your party knows just how much trouble it is in if it keeps running establishment candidates.
But no, yeah. Keep telling yourself that Jeb Bush will turn out the base. Just like McCain and Romney did.
NotMax
@Anoniminous
Hey, it’s a tough row to hoe for any classical composer whose name begins with B, aside from the Big 3.
:)
(Viva Buxtehude!)
Anoniminous
@NotMax:
“Bela Bartok” sounds, to me, like a Brand Name. Can never decide for what. perhaps a high fashion line of women’s clothing?
Renie
As a suburban married mom RtR has no idea what he is talking about when it comes to charter schools that Jeb pushes. PTAs all over HATE charter schools taking money from public schools. Only people who like charters are the money people pushing it. That’s who Jeb answers to.
Frank Bolton
@Frank Bolton: I apologize. I should have said that the white turnout drop is considerably lower outside of the South. And Southwest for that matter.
The basic conclusion you should take away from that is that even with non-Southern/Southwest whites being turned out in numbers of about 60-70%, they’re still increasingly rejecting the current Republican consensus.
Proof for that assertion:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1or-N33CpOZYQ1UfZo0h8yGPSyz0Db-xjmZOXg3VJi-Q/edit#gid=1670431880
http://www.vote90.com/images/voter-turnout-2012.png
Cervantes
@NotMax:
The text on the web-site and the code for the logo may both include it, but who looks at those things? How about the logo itself? On the web-site or, more to the point, here.
Their pretending the inconsistency does not exist must be one of those inscrutable bits of marketing wisdom, I expect.
NotMax
@Cervantes
The logo uses all caps as well, which numbnutz above did not.
NotMax
@efgoldman
They could have taken a lead from the legacy of the Bronk family, the source of the name of Bronx county in NY.
Brinx. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
:)
AxelFoley
@kc:
Fix’d
Matt McIrvin
@Right to Rise:
You keep saying that, but it’s completely false. Here’s the 2012 aggregate from RealClearPolitics, a good conservative site:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html
Here’s Sam Wang’s analysis of the electoral vote (which, as usual, hit on the nose on Election Day):
http://election.princeton.edu/history-of-electoral-votes-for-obama/
Sandy hit on October 29. The RCP average for Obama actually dropped for a few days after that (noise, I’d guess). Then Obama’s margin went back to what it had been just prior.
Obama had a big lead for most of the year until around the first debate on Oct. 3, after which Romney was briefly in the lead in national polls, though Wang’s state aggregation still had him not quite winning the electoral vote. Then Obama got enough of his mojo back after the second and third debates on Oct. 11 and 16 that the map wasn’t seriously in danger. The effect of Sandy seems to have been more or less neutral.
Matt McIrvin
…Now why would one get the impression that Hurricane Sandy saved Obama’s bacon? Probably because, in the endgame, pundits had an interest in portraying the race as all up in the air, and most Republicans were at that point spiraling off into fantasies of massive poll-skewing and a surge for Romney. The first debate had given them an opening. When Romney lost, the search was on for some explanation, and Sandy as the stroke of bad luck provided a convenient story.
But, no, Obama pretty much saved himself. By the point of “please proceed, Governor” it was all over.