Valued commenter clay posted this CNN article on the previous thread. Let’s keep that thread on oceanography for Boussinesq and mess around with the politics here.
The CNN story continues a Washington Post story that didn’t make a whole lot of sense to me the other day. It still doesn’t make much sense, although this tweet may help:
Comey is what happens when second-order concerns about the perception of legitimacy overtake first-order efforts to do legitimate work.
— Tom Scocca (@tomscocca) October 29, 2016
So I still haven’t figured it out. And here’s an open thread.
eric
Here it is: Comey knew that the facts did not support any further investigation of Hillary. He also knew that the NYC FBI and the Fox News/RW News Syndicate would generate a feeding frenzy that would consume him along with Hillary. So, he preemptively explained the evidence that would be used in the anticipated frenzy to insulate himself from the inevitable claim that he was protecting Hillary as another cog in the Hillary-Machine.
Edmunddantes
Comey was more concerned about covering his butt and protecting his image than doing the actual work the job required. Pretty much inline with his real image versus the hagiography media tried to paint him with.
Spanky
From the CNN piece:
Might just be the takeaway that matters.
realbtl
Shorter- CYA
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
Via LGM, here is an interesting discussion of the same idea (if I understand you correctly): Villains, Careerists, and Patriots. Money quote:
Cheryl Rofer
Another thought:
Jeffro
Well hey, an open thread – thanks Cheryl!
I just dropped this in at the bottom of the “I started a joke” thread: NFLTG Boehner lets fly
Suuuure it’s coffee, John…
Cheryl Rofer
Or this
clay
I’m valued, hot damn!
The story in a nutshell is that Comey knew the fake documents were fake, but was worried that if they were leaked, he wouldn’t be able to disprove them without compromising sources. So he shut down the investigation, while simultaneously wagging his finger at Clinton for carelessness.
The charitable read on Comey (and one I’m inclined to lean towards) is that he was stuck in an impossible position — undercut by certain factions below him, while being pressured by the Republican-controlled Congress and the vast amount of media noise that they can drum up, all the while trying to sift through the Russian disinformation. So he tried to thread the needle as best he could, but failed.
In this read, Comey’s kinda like Ned Stark: good and honorable, and trying his to do his best in a game he doesn’t want to play, while not realizing that the rules have been changed. (And both were beheaded by a despicable boy-king.)
Cheryl Rofer
@Jeffro: I’ve been wondering if that Boehner interview is a way of opening the path for Republicans to move away from Trump.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jeffro: I am sure there was some coffee in the cup.
Cheryl Rofer
LOL
clay
@Cheryl Rofer: If they gave a damn what Boehner thought, then he wouldn’t have had to quit his job.
SFAW
Comey’s desire to make sure that EVERYONE knew how unimpeachably integritous he was [by divulging actual “fake news” that benefited Shitgibbon (and hurt Hitlary – a two-fer!), so that no one else could say that he was withholding (bogus) evidence], rather than just proving it by doing his fucking job, because he might have to respond to the proles calling him to account. In other words: he didn’t want RWNJs to be mean to him, so he told them (indirectly) how integritous he was.
Or something like that.
After he testifies before Mueller, Congress, and Judge Wapner, he can commit seppuku, as far as I’m concerned, if he REALLY wanted to show how honorable he was/is.
Fuckim
scav
@Cheryl Rofer: Ha!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cheryl Rofer: Macron was more or less openly contemptuous, wasn’t he? That whole thing where he visibly pivoted to Merkel (the pivot!). and apparently trump took a second stab at handshake dominance, and young Emmanuel wasn’t having it? We’ll have to see what happens when the Rough Beast gets back to twitter
ETA: I’d like to see a timeline on those trump-Macron interactions
piratedan
well it does seem like the Russians had a very good dossier on the players and how to manipulate them. Using the CDS of the NY FBI station as a stick with which to drive Comey, knowing that they were cheerleaders for Trump would make him “look bad” if he wasn’t out in front. Obama, being who he is, wasn’t twisting his arms or applying pressure to do the right thing, he assumed that Comey would. Instead Comey was played by his own need to have the “untainted” rep and tainted it anyway in the hopes that Clinton would win anyway.
if we ever get out of this fucking mess (post the indictments for treason, et al) someone may need to send John Wick after Vald’s ass.
Major Major Major Major
Scocca’s tweet is dead-on.
hitchhiker
Not sure, but I have the impression Comey places high value on 2 things only:
1. His own reputation as a boy scout who always takes the honorable path.
2. The reputation of the FBI as a place where honest professionals work hard to protect the public against criminals.
In the pre-July cockup trash-HRC announcement, those values were not really in conflict … even if the fake email made its way into the press, it was all good. He didn’t anticipate that the announcement would require him to take the October 28th step, and he especially didn’t anticipate that the 10/28 step would become a factor in the catastrophic election.
Now BOTH of his priorities are in the ditch.
And we’re all vomiting while he experiences mild nausea.
catclub
@Spanky: I would add – and the FBI fell for a pretty lame bit of fake evidence/intelligence. It has only taken 14 months for them to figure out it was fake.
The FBI is MUCH less competent that they wish to be percieved. There was a long time that whenever some ‘hacker’ was interviewed on computer intrusions by the FBI, the FBI guys were incredibly clueless. Does Aaron Schwartz ring a bell?
I do not know if that has even changed. I think their recruitment methods look for extremely straight ( all implications intended) arrows who
generally can pass their (outdated but still literal) anti-communist screening. Outside the box thinkers not welcome. Authoritarians, yes.
Gin & Tonic
@Cheryl Rofer: I’m fairly certain that nearly every leader at the NATO summit has better mastery of English syntax than Trump does.
Corner Stone
@Cheryl Rofer:
What should have happened from the very beginning. This isn’t new. Not a surprise. This should have been disclosed months and months ago. Obama should have said, “Fuck you, Turtle.” And make all this public, loudly.
Quinerly
I’ll leave this here. Seems like a good place: observer.com/2017/05/mike-rogers-nsa-chief-admits-trump-colluded-with-russia/
Jeffro
@Cheryl Rofer:
I hear you, but I just can’t see it. Boehner’s already old news. There are so few conservative voices speaking out against him in any way, for even the most egregious behavior (and it’s hard to decide what the most egregious behavior even is, at this point. The obvious love for Putin and other dictators? All the violating of the emoluments clause? Giving away classified info right and left? Who knows?)
Anyway, the GOP truly is Trumpov’s party at this point, reporter-beatings and all. It’s funny to hear Boehner vent but other than a couple of commentators like Frum and Rubin sticking to their principles, there’s no one willing to stand up to him. Kind of hard to, when, on the Right, there’s always somebody crazier willing to primary you, and there’s always the pain of losing Mercer/Koch cash for breaking ranks.
Peale
@Cheryl Rofer: It would be fun if the global lingua franca again became French just to piss us off.
Kay
I always feel like people would benefit from reading a job description every day. It’s so easy to get off track. Comey isn’t responsible for how it “appears” to Republicans. He’s not responsible for their perceptions. He simply had to do the job and let the chips fall where they may and that would have taken real courage and discipline, because they would have savaged him.
I am sympathetic to losing sight of what it is you’re supposed to be doing because that is remarkably easy to do at work, oddly enough. All kinds of side tracks appear and you get lost in the weeds and boy did he get lost.
Corner Stone
@hitchhiker:
This and nothing else. Nothing else.
catclub
@Cheryl Rofer: acted on, but did not actually investigate. worst of all worlds.
if anyone asked “how do we falsify this info on Lynch promising to go easy on Clinton” it would be to ask the people named. But that is too easy.
Calouste
@Cheryl Rofer: It’s not like the shitgibbon understands English either. He hears stuff, but he doesn’t understand the message.
SFAW
@Cheryl Rofer:
Hell, Shitgibbon doesn’t even understand higher-than-fourth-grade-level English. (Yes, I’m being charitable re: the level.)
ETA: [Shakes fist ineffectually at Calouste and G&T]
Corner Stone
Wow. I can feel a huge FUCK YOU moment coming on for Rick Wilson…wait for it…wait for it…wait…
Major Major Major Major
@Peale: Might piss ‘us’ off, but certainly not moi.
Quinerly
Posted this this AM. Apologies for the repeat but well worth the read if you haven’t taken a peek at it. Mind you now, someone needs to tell Joe of the Morning that Trump was identifying himself as a Repug and buddies with Ronnie …until: hollywoodreporter.com/news/donald-trump-angled-soviet-posting-1980s-says-nobel-prize-winner-1006312
clay
@Kay:
As a public school teacher, I am also sympathetic.
Betty Cracker
@SFAW: Yeah, that’s my take too. Comey screwed the pooch. I was watching some hearing recently, and Comey was praised to the skies for always striving to fulfill his highest remit: Protect the Bureau. And I thought, really? What about the American people? Comey’s firing was improper because he was running the investigation into Trump. But damned if he wasn’t an ass-covering incompetent at best or corrupt careerist at worst.
catclub
@Corner Stone:
most of Obama’s own goals were re-nominating GOP pols to important positions in his admin. Comey is number one.
Bernanke and Not filling the Federal reserve is number two, Defense secretaries is number three. Does Tim Geithner actually count as a Democrat?
he shouldn’t.
Cheryl Rofer
@catclub:
That is the most bizarre part. They seem never to have checked it out.
SFAW
@Betty Cracker:
Not unlike the RWNJ scared-of-their-own-shadow mofos who say the Preznit’s main job is to protect the ‘Murican people.
Wrong, you fucking morons: it’s Defend The Constitution. Everything else is secondary. (OK, not completely true, just being dramatic.)
germy
Has there been a renewed attempt to discredit Comey since he left the administration?
I mean, he is what he is, but lately I feel like the trump team is trying to cast a shadow over him.
Corner Stone
God I hate James Comey. Fucking prick.
catclub
@Jeffro:
Michael Gerson may have joined them. The common thread there is Jewish. Better antennae for fascists?
geg6
Unfuckingbelievable. I keep saying this, like, once or twice a week ever since November 9 and telling myself that I shouldn’t be so naive in the future. And then some shit like this comes out and here I am saying it again.
clay
@Betty Cracker:
Comey might say that a Bureau with a damaged reputation can’t protect the American people. And I’m not so sure he’d be wrong. As is becoming all too clear over the past four months, we need independent, strong institutions in order for our republic to function. Undercutting those institutions can have disastrous consequences.
I’m particularly attuned to the part of the story that says Comey felt he couldn’t publicly disprove the documents without burning sources and methods. After reading Adam’s posts — and has been made overwhelmingly clear in the last two weeks — we need people that take this stuff seriously.
hovercraft
@Cheryl Rofer:
He may want it to be, but the problem is he has no following, the base hates him for being Obama’s doormat, so the media and the left may cheer him on, but it won’t change republican behavior.
FormerSwingVoter
It’s important for people to recognize what’s going on here – Law Enforcement Officers consistently get their information from Fox News, Drudge Report, and Breitbart. The right-wing radicalization of our Law Enforcement apparatus is the single greatest and gravest threat to our country right now – police over the past few years have gotten angrier and angrier, more and more racist, and more and more violent, while simultaneously becoming far more defensive of the police who exhibit these traits.
The police I know used to talk about how the police weren’t actually racist. Over the past few years, as they’ve gone further and further down the Fox News rabbithole, they’ve switched to explaining why it’s okay for the police to be racist. Polls before the election when Hillary was at her highest were showing that police supported Trump over her by a ratio of 84-6.
We have to acknowledge the elephant in the room – Fox News’ blind and unwavering support of the police in any and all circumstances has now radicalized almost every Law Enforcement Officer in America. They manipulated the media to elect Trump in the exact same way they manipulate the media to make sure cops always walk free no matter what crimes they commit. This was intentional. This was on purpose. They have a literal playbook on how to do this, and train their media-facing officers on how to do this. And now they no longer believe that any of the rest of us have basic human rights because of Fox News.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Black Russian?
Corner Stone
@germy: Probably. But it doesn’t matter. He fucked this up from word Go. The laughable memo about Lynch saying she would protect HRC is just that – laughable. Forget about what it said or what the provenance was. Comey fucked this up six ways to Sunday even if you take the baseline that the memo never existed, existed but was obviously fake, was obviously fake and Comey knew it, Comey never figured out it was fake.
In any of those contingencies, Comey made the wrong decision, using the wrong decision making criteria.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
A little news feed blurb crossed my screen this morning, saying Trump was about to rescind sanctions on Russia. I haven’t seen a confirmation, but if true, I anticipate a big Intel leak in the next 24-48. I don’t see the IC now letting Trump do further damage without serious repercussions.
Kay
@clay:
I can check myself now, where I used to end up in Comey-like mazes. Go back, Mr. Comey! Start at the beginning! What is your job?
catclub
@germy: yes. This is probably part of it. Show he was an idiot – even if it makes it look worse for Trump.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@catclub: I don’t know if Wilson’s Jewish, or Ana Navarro, Mark Salter, Mike Murphy, McMullen, George Will… the line seems to be more electeds vs those who stay on the sidelines. I don’t know how many pundits outside the hardcore FoxNews/Townhall circuit (I include Hewitt in there, though I don’t know where he came from) are trump supporters
clay
@Kay:
Well, right now… it’s nothing.
Peale
@hovercraft: And he won’t vote for a Democrat. Or raise money for them. Or provide pro bono services to those whom Trump is aiming to harm. So yeah, his conscience is clear. Good for him.
catclub
@clay:
I am particularly attuned to that sounding like post-hoc ass covering. There is no reason he has to publicly disprove them.
Cheryl Rofer
The sources and methods thing bothers me too. I suspect, but of course have no way of proving or even making a persuasive argument, that that excuse is wildly overused.
When you’re on the inside of the classification ball, you can see the connections, so it looks like if you say anything, everyone can figure everything else out. But, from my observations, that’s not true. The problem is that you don’t know what information the other guys have, so it’s much easier to say nothing. But that is always a tradeoff, and one of the things traded off is the ability of the American public to make their decisions.
Major Major Major Major
@West of the Rockies (been a while):
Bloomberg this morning bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-26/trump-to-maintain-russia-sanctions-economic-adviser-cohn-…
Peale
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Let’s hope he does something worse, like “retroactively” ends them and declares that anyone who got around them can get off scot free.
SFAW
@clay:
It already HAD a damaged rep, springing from their various corner-cutting ops in their Labs 5/10/15 years ago (don’t recall exactly when it came to light). The way to regain the trust they need is to NOT DO WHAT COMEY DID re: divulging of “evidence” they knew to be questionable.
You seem to be giving Comey much more benefit-of-the-doubt that would seem reasonable, given his ratfucking of the election on two or three occasions (depending on whether one considers the latest revelation, and his 10/28 BS to be one, or two, ratfuckings). He’s a dishonest weasel, more concerned with his own rep than with doing the right thing.
germy
@Major Major Major Major: Then what happens to Gianforte’s investments? :/
clay
@Cheryl Rofer:
If the FBI (minus the anti-Clinton faction) knew it was fake, then why would they? (Serious question, not snark.)
Cheryl Rofer
I wonder if Comey can shuck all his posturing to testify in a straightforward way to Congress. That might be his best CYA strategy at this point.
catclub
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Good to see a list of people I never read. You may be right that I evaluated based on limited evidence.
Corner Stone
I hope a massive news dump comes out this evening. I want this piece of shit to be at peak fuming when he is stewing on the flight coming back to the states.
germy
@Cheryl Rofer: I don’t understand this:
Why do they decline?
clay
@catclub:
The story — and let’s operate under the assumption that the basic facts in the story are correct — says that Comey was worried that the documents would be leaked, which would ‘show’ that Lynch was colluding to quash the Hillary investigation. If Comey wasn’t able to publicly disprove them, then it would’ve been much worse off for Hillary than it even was.
Corner Stone
@Major Major Major Major: According to the Trump Corollary, that means sanctions are going away asap.
OGLiberal
@catclub: Two more – Podhoretz and Kristol. Also Jewish…
hovercraft
The princeling is finally getting his moment in the sun, I hope he enjoys it.
Via POLITICO
A perfect fit for the Twitler family, no wonder he sits outside the oval office.
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major:
Oh yeah? So about golden boy Jared’s meetings with Gorkov….
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Major Major Major Major:
Ah, okay… well, theory two then: if Trump returns “triumphant” from his European/ME tour, he’ll still get knocked down with a day or so by additional leaks — it’s a pattern. The IC (or whoever is leaking) won’t allow him to gain momentum.
Corner Stone
@germy: As a guess, the FBI does not trust Chaffetz and do not want to give him source material that he can ratfuck.
TenguPhule
I respectfully disagree with Cheryl’s dismissal of Trump’s Article V Fuckup.
This constant cascade of fuckups is threatening to turn into an out of control avalanche.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@hovercraft: I love this part
it is remarkable he seems to be so media-shy, given that his wife likes to talk to friendly media, and Uday and Qusay don’t know when to shut up. I wonder if that’s the insecurity looking almost like self-awareness. OTOH, he took all those portfolios from his idiot FIL.
mdblanche
@Omnes Omnibus: Now that it’s all someone else’s problem the percentage of coffee in the cup is finally above 50%.
Corner Stone
@clay:
No, that means the Director of the FBI would be operating in a permanent crouch. He made no move to investigate these “facts”. Maybe because he did not want to? Either way, if he is going to hold fire based on something he “knows” to be false then what fucking good is he?
SFAW
@germy:
Not sure if it’s the same item, but I think it was the Comey memos they were declining about.
ETA: Of course, that didn’t really answer your question, did it? Sorry.
Cheryl Rofer
@clay: But how did they know it was fake?
Major Major Major Major
@hovercraft:
You know, zeitgeist some paradigms.
clay
@SFAW:
I just think he’s more likely to have been part of the ratfucked, rather than the ratfucking. And, yes, that is in no small part due to his own decisions and actions, but like I said above, I think he was being squeezed and played, and didn’t know how to thread the needle. He made the wrong decision in July — hindsight is 20/20 — but I think he was trying to get the FBI out of the election as quickly as possible.
Frankensteinbeck
I think personal bias comes into play here, and people with a grandiose opinion of themselves are particularly vulnerable to it. All signs are he hates the Clintons. That makes it easy to convince himself that trashing her way more than is necessary is the justified, honest thing to do.
catclub
@clay: But if even investigating the allegations in those documents reveals sources and methods, then the people threatening to leak them would ALSO be revealing sources and methods – which is (or used to be) a cardinal sin. So Comey is worried that his own employees are likely to commit a cardinal sin, but not worried enough to do something to falsify those documents – and cannot investigate the allegation. Still sounds like post-hoc ass covering.
hovercraft
@Major Major Major Major:
This is part of the clean up effort after he took a dump in the punch bowl at NATO yesterday. He has gotten awful reviews, Nicholas Burns said it was the worst presidential visit to NATO in 68 years. His buddy Theresa May scolded him publicly for a serious breach and everyone treated him like he had cooties. They may have wanted to lift sanctions, but given his tantrum there was no way.
? Martin
@Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: Right. This is perhaps a bit of a philosophical point, though.
We have this notion of what a given culture ought to be. How the FBI should operate, or what American values are, and so on. That notion is fictional. It’s akin to a mass delusion – something we more or less all agree on yet isn’t actually real. A real problem in this space is whether a given action conforms to that culture, or whether a given action will change the culture to make it conforming (or non-conforming). You see this kind of stuff all the time – first gay kiss on TV, or the first transgender kid in your school, etc. The culture inevitably changes in some way in response to that act, which can make it more conforming, or in some cases less. At some point lynching people became less conforming, while gay kissing became more.
The problem with the ‘don’t influence an election’ rule is that it’s impossible. If you have information relevant to the election, then both revealing it and not revealing it will influence the election, depending on ones perspective. Historically, revealing it was non-conforming and hiding it was conforming, but if you discovered that one candidate was a serial killer, then the perspective would change to the reverse – that hiding it would be non-conforming. Which types of things will shift that cultural norm are relative – they’re impossible to know objectively. You only know them by the signals being sent. So, you leak the information and see the response. If the response is that the NYT goes batshit over it, then the signal is that revealing it might become conforming.
It’s pretty much impossible for a person like Comey to get it right because it’s Calvinball – the rules change constantly depending on the circumstance, the individuals involved and so on. You want objectivity and evidence-based decision making, and it turns out those are completely ephemeral things. They simply don’t exist unless people agree to them.
Cheryl Rofer
@germy: Oh man, you would have to ask them.
One of the difficulties with this whole story is that there are so many moving parts and so little firm information. I’m working on a post to try to correct a small part of that. I’m going to disappear for a while to see if I can finish it.
MoxieM
@Peale: Lingua franca. see what you did there.
clay
@Cheryl Rofer: From the original WaPo story you linked to:
It sounds like they were looking into it.
hovercraft
@germy:
They are waiting for Mueller to say if they should hand them over, he gets to call the shots .
germy
@Corner Stone:
So they’re saving everything for Mueller? Sounds right to me.
germy
@hovercraft: Thanks, it’s clearer to me now. I don’t trust chaffetz or gowdy. They’re not looking for the truth, obviously, they’re running interference.
? Martin
@Corner Stone: I’d explain the FBI decision with one tweet:
Betty Cracker
@clay: Was it Comey’s job to game out political consequences? He sucks at it. But clearly part of his fucking job was to assert leadership over his agents, including the ones who were openly colluding with Rudy Giuliani to sandbag Clinton, and provide accurate intelligence to the DOJ and lawmakers. We know he failed at the first, and if the CNN story is accurate, he failed spectacularly in the second as well.
Jeffro
@catclub:
That may well be part of it. Or just being not-Fundie? But there are darned few of them – certainly not enough to start their own party. If they ever want to have some influence in politics, I encourage them to take their love of the Constitution, democracy, foreign policy with principles, and respect for institutions and vote with the one party that still honors those things.
Jeffro
@Corner Stone:
I was just thinking that very thing…it’s almost 4pm on the Friday before a 3-day weekend…or as we call it here in Trumpland, PRIME TIME!! Let’s have it, IC!!
germy
@? Martin: So he doesn’t want to climb into a leaky boat.
SFAW
@clay:
No. He chose to go above-and-beyond his “charter” in July, with his “yeah, we ain’t charging Hitlary, but DAMN I WISH WE COULD” press conference. [Yes, I know the FBI does not bring charges.] And then his “If I ratfuck Hitlary, will you RWNJs promise not to be mean to me” performance in late October served no valid purpose vis-a-vis furthering any investigation. He was afraid some rogue internal operation would divulge stuff, and he wanted to prevent that “problem”? Yeah, right.
At every decision significant point during the election, he chose the “fuck the Clintons” path, whether justified or not. [And, amazingly enough, it wasn’t justified. Whodathunk?] He’s hated the Clintons since he worked for Ken Starr (I think it was), and I feel confident that his CDS played a significant part in his ratfucking of Hillary’s campaign.
I don’t know why you keep trying to portray Comey as a mere babe-in-the-woods, because he wasn’t. He’s a fucking weasel. Standing up to Ashcroft in 2004 appears to be the only time he actually did something worthy of his vaunted-but-bullshit reputation for integrity.
Junior G-Man Louie Freeh had a similar rep, I think. And his CDS won out in the end, as well.
Give me Bill Bratton any day. He has his own faults, but he’s not an intellectually dishonest fuck like those two.
Mnemosyne
@FormerSwingVoter:
I am fortunate that 2 out of the 3 police officers of my acquaintance are in that 6 percent, but I know what you mean. Police officers are being propagandized by the same forces that use Fox News as their mouthpiece.
clay
@catclub:
I’m not sure I follow. The people that would leak the memo would just need to do that — leak the memo, to Fox News or the NYT or whomever. And the NYT would contact a different source at the Bureau, and that source would confirm that, yes, this is an e-mail that the FBI has in their possession and are investigating, and then the NYT would publish it, and Loretta Lynch would be instantly ‘guilty’ of covering up Hillary’s ‘crimes’.
But that chain of events wouldn’t require any burning of sources or methods, just the leaked document.
But refuting the memo WOULD (or, at least, Comey worried it would) require revealing how they knew it was false. Which may (or may not) burn whatever source or method they used to conclude that it was false.
Was Comey right? Dunno. But I think it’s a serious enough consideration to justify some benefit of the doubt. I hope Adam chimes in here at some point.
Major Major Major Major
@Jeffro:
Never. The one thing they hate more than all of that being shit on is agreeing with a hippie.
hovercraft
@Major Major Major Major:
What does that have to do with the series of tubes?
Just One More Canuck
@clay: I assume I would be referred to as “grudgingly tolerated commenter” or “barely sentient commenter”
clay
@Betty Cracker: I’ve said throughout this entire thread — since I seem to be the only one offering any sort of defense of Comey — that he made the wrong choices. But I don’t think his choices were made out of malice, or a desire to see Trump elected. But rather that he couldn’t thread the tiny needle that he needed to. And I have some sympathy for the tight spot he was in.
But no, that doesn’t mean I think he did the right thing. But I do think that ‘the right thing’ may not have been as obvious as it seems now with the benefit of hindsight. (And I offer NO justification for his October letter, by the way.)
SFAW
@Just One More Canuck:
Hey, it’s better than “waste of space commenter” or “asshole curmudgeonly commenter” that I get
Frankensteinbeck
@hovercraft:
I read a big chunk of that article, until I got bored by the repetitious nature of Kushner’s actions. I am amazed by the article’s combination of informative muckraking and editorial attempts to polish the turd it uncovered. It’s not liberals who thought Kushner was soft. And ‘tough’ is as flattering a euphemism as you can get. The endlessly detailed history paints Kushner as corrupt, petty, spiteful, preeningly egotistical, and eager to abuse any power he gets. He comes off as cowardly and more interested in punching down or knifing people anonymously than direct confrontation. An all-around asshole truly worthy of the Trump family. I saw no indications of competence, either.
Major Major Major Major
@hovercraft: About as much as “blowing up” “digital”.
Millard Filmore
@Corner Stone:
Sounds like this situation was lifted from Atlas Shrugged: you learn whats going on by the denials.
OGLiberal
@FormerSwingVoter: I have a friend from childhood who is a cop. Smart guy, nice guy. He loves Trump, hated Obama and complains about Obamacare and how horrible it is…blah, blah, blah. I honestly believe he’s not racist (although I’m sure many of his co-workers are…grew up with them as well) but just about everything he supports is horrible. This is coming from a guy protected by one of the few strong unions left, with a government job that provides him with great healthcare benefits, who can retire before he is 50 with a full pension and then go on to work another 15-20 years in another job.
Mnemosyne
@clay:
I think this is the sticking point for all of these post-election defenses of Comey — they make sense for his July actions, but not for his October ones.
We still don’t know why he sent that letter to Congress in late October, and none of the justifications we’ve heard so far make any sense when you look at that action.
I think we’re still missing a major piece of the puzzle.
clay
Damage Control?
From CNN:
SFAW
@clay:
What he did went FAR beyond making “the wrong choices.” Getting behind the wheel after two beers is “making the wrong choice.” Had he only hurt himself, and not the entire country, THAT would have been “making the wrong choices.”
That’s like saying we have this abomination of a Cabinet because Shitgibbon “made the wrong choices.”
clay
@Mnemosyne: The BEST defense for his October letter — and it’s not a good one — is that he was trying to get ahead of potential leaks from within the FBI. And that he assumed that Trump was dead in the water after the debates and the Access Hollywood tape, and figured he wouldn’t be affecting the election.
Like I said, not a great defense. It may be true, but it’s still a bad call.
Mnemosyne
@clay:
Right, but it’s a defense that makes no sense. Even leaks from within the department wouldn’t have been as damaging as what he did.
Was he somehow convinced by someone that he had been wrong in July about Hillary not doing anything worthy of indictment, got pissed off thinking that he had been made a fool of by the Clintons, and flew off the handle? Even that explanation would make more sense than what we’re getting now about October.
TenguPhule
@clay:
If the fucker can’t maintain discipline in the FBI, why the fuck was he saying he was in charge of it?
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne:
This.
I still say we’re going to find a Russian connection to Comey. He just chickened out before the waters got too deep, but he’s still wet up to his weasel neck.
clay
@TenguPhule: Like I said, it’s a bad defense.
hovercraft
@Major Major Major Major:
I thought the digital went through the tubes and into the back of my computer, no? Though I still haven’t figured out how the “digital” gets to my phone or tablet!
I was being sarcastic, he sounds as informed as the late Senator Tubes.
Betty Cracker
@clay: I think Trump is going to try to conflate the intelligence leaks that are roasting his ass every evening with the inexcusable babbling like the Manchester leaks. Fox News is already laying the groundwork (or subliminally running White House political strategy). Of course, it’s a tough sell when Trump himself can’t keep his big mouth shut. But it’ll perhaps mollify the dimmer rubes, and that’s his base, after all.
mainmata
@clay: So when is the NY FBI Office going to be stripped of their traitors, starting with Jim Kallstrom who knows which are which.
? Martin
@Betty Cracker:
Sort of. The established norm was ‘don’t create political consequences’. But both disclosing and not disclosing, as well as how you disclose all carry political consequences, in much the way that revealing an impulsive bit of infidelity, not revealing it, and how you reveal it all have different consequences, depending on your timeframe. Remember, Comey fully expected to still be FBI director after the election and would have to defend decisions to not disclose, just as strongly as he had to defend decisions to disclose.
His best barometer for what constituted the right norm was public reaction, and I’d argue the NYT above all other agencies made the case that disclosing should be the norm because of their treatment of the email situation. The lack of comparable outrage over Russia, even though it was similarly leaked, informed him of what mattered to the electorate and what didn’t.
It’s a shitty system, but I’m hard pressed to come up with a more consistent one other than to drastically cut down the campaign period so that nearly everything can be disclosed prior to the campaign even beginning. But even that has its limits as we learned in Montana yesterday.
clay
@Betty Cracker: I think that Trump and Co. got their asses chewed out by Teresa May and at least Tillerson recognized the need to make some sort of public apology.
Also, forgot to mention in my original post… Boris Johnson is the equivalent of our Sec of State?!? I guess Trump doesn’t have a monopoly on horrible cabinets.
vhh
@Cheryl Rofer: The French pretty much invented the art of one-upsmanship, which they call “le jeu d’esprit.” By speaking French when he didn’t need to, Macron out-Trumped Trump (and by the way, reminded people that the US used to have a Secretary of State, John Kerry, who was comfortable speaking French).
vhh
@Peale: He probably can’t do that now.
One interesting consequence is that by trying to get the sanctions lifted under the table, Putin has made it harder for them to be lifted. Karma is a bitch that way.
Dave
@Betty Cracker: He was the worst sort of corrupt; the one that was incapable of understanding his own corruption. It’s a morality play given flesh. I would have more sympathy, it’s so easy to seduce ourselves with the lies we tell, except this outcome makes it unforgivable.
Tazj
I now fully understand why Maxine Waters was beside herself when she came out of the meetings about this and talked to reporters.
I have some sympathy for Comey. However, the apparent corruption in the NY FBI offices is scary and infuriating.
I think the reason the public didn’t seem as interested in the Trump-Russia connection as in Hillary’s emails and foundation is that the media preferred to cover controversy about Hillary and Mitch McConnell refused to give a bipartisan statement about Russian interference.
This has been said over and over again but our media and parts of government failed us miserably.
pluky
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: makes one wonder what the DGSE has on Trump.