The latest horserace report from Politico says that Jim Jordan allies’ attempts to strong-arm colleagues into falling in line has backfired and “could soon doom his speakership push outright.” The Jordon skeptics seem especially irate about Sean Hannity publishing the 20 GOP defectors’ names and phone numbers to activate the Fox News army of angry recliner chair-bound voters, calling the effort “a coordinated push with a threatening theme: Vote for Jordan — or else.”
Again, welcome to the party, pals. Please excuse the rest of us for drinking all the punch and hoovering up the hors d’oeuvres while y’all were still part of the rampaging extortionist mob. Here’s our offer: nothing.
Acknowledging that his speaker bid is in limbo, Jordan punted his plan to hold a second vote on Tuesday after Republicans privately warned he was at risk of seeing his opponents’ numbers grow. Instead, he is expected to huddle with allies and make calls in an attempt to get his bid back on track before a second vote as soon as Wednesday.
“We’re going to keep working, and we’re going to get the votes,” Jordan said on Tuesday night, saying that Republicans were having “great conversations.”
But one House Republican, who was granted anonymity to speak frankly about private conversations, said that Jordan and his lieutenants are “calling people who voted for him trying to stop the bleeding.” And they warned that those calls are “pissing off” members rather than winning them over, noting Jordan has failed to strongly and publicly disavow the attacks against his detractors.
Even if Jordan publicly calls off the flying monkeys today, it may be too late. Unnamed House Repubs in the Politico piece said the attempts to bully members into submission “amounted to a preview of the tactics that the ultraconservative Ohioan could employ if he claimed the top gavel — a readiness to unleash online wrath from the GOP base and its favored conservative pundits.”
That was okay when Jordan helped gin up a mob to overturn the 2020 election and then held a knife to the U.S. economy’s throat by threatening to not pay our bills. The GOP holdouts are only squawking now because the Freedom Caucus is aiming the mob at them.
I’m going to call my shitty Jordan-supporting rep today to once again register my objections to the absurd notion that a person who encouraged a mob to invade a congressional chamber should lead it. If you have a Democratic rep, consider thanking them for voting for Jeffries — and encourage them to stay strong.
Open thread.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊😊😊
Tony Jay
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
What a beautiful day to be alive. Why yes I am finishing work in about half an hour, however did you guess?
p.a.
Oh the political thuggery they use against others is now turned on themselves? Whocouldaknowed!
Sanjeevs
Maybe the DoJ should investigate that sometime.
geg6
Leopards, faces, rinse and repeat.
Regardless, may Gym continue to suffer humiliation after humiliation. Fucker.
Wag
All Jeffries needs to do is welcome five members of the GOP caucus to the Dem fold and then we can move on.
A guy can have dreams, can’t he?
Betty Cracker
@p.a.: I know I’ve been harping on this constantly, but yeah, their astonishment at this turn of events pisses me off! I want to strap them to a chair, prop their eyelids up with toothpicks and make them watch a video of Trump’s nauseating rendition of “The Snake” on endless loop.
Anonymous At Work
How many abstentions to give Jefferies the gavel? 20? More, fewer?
dmsilev
Jordan was trying to run things like a particularly thuggish Mafia Don (note that the GOP likes to describe their factions as “The Five Families”…). Or, if I thought he had a hint of classicism, like he was putting into practice Machiavelli’s dictum from The Prince that it was better for a ruler to be feared than to be loved. The problem in both cases is that it only works if your targets have reason to be afraid of you. If the emotion your threats spark is instead hatred, you turn them into hardened enemies. Which is a big problem when you need 98% of the entire caucus to affirmatively support you.
Jay C
I read somewhere that one of Jordan’s non-fans in the House proposed- in the event that ‘Rasslin’ Jim falls short again- that they simply move to make the Speaker Pro Tem official Speaker, and be done with the drama*. What Rep. McHenry thinks of the idea isn’t known at present….
*this is sarcasm.
dmsilev
@Anonymous At Work: He’d need 212 to be an absolute majority of those voting, so if that dropped to 423 (with all Dems present), he’d get the (temporary) majority.
NorthLeft
Yeah, kind of funny that the media has not been all over Jordan to denounce those violence prone and abuse loving MAGAts about their harassment and threats towards his opponents, er, fellow Republicans.
As usual, a double standard for extreme right wing Republicans.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Wag: Finding five 21st-century Republican congresspersons willing to make a move that’ll end their political careers and put their lives and the lives of their loved ones in jeopardy is not an easy lift. It’s right up there with tasking Abraham to find ten righteous people in Sodom.
There go two miscreants
I was reading a short article on octopus intelligence this morning and came across a line that seems applicable here:
Ken
@Jay C: If they mean they’d nominate McHenry and hope he can win a roll vote, sure. Without the vote, I suspect both the Democrats and the parliamentarian would have objections.
EDIT: I’m somewhat reminded of recent UK politics, where the Tories’s slim majority in the Commons has let them run through PMs like potato chips, each being selected by a very small sliver of the UK electorate.
Tony Jay
@Anonymous At Work:
If the ‘moderates’ (I know, I know) in the GOP want to flex a bit they really could just be elsewhere during the next Speaker vote. Jeffries gets elected, then the nutbars have a ticking clock in the corner of the screen where the Dems get to control House business until such a time as the rest of the GOP make the moderates an offer they can’t refuse.
Won’t happen, of course, but they could get together and do that. If they wanted to neuter the crazies.
p.a.
@Betty Cracker: heh, first comes self-knowledge/admission. They have to admit: yes, we are fascists. Then The Night of the Long Knives won’t be a shock.
MattF
Looking forward to Jordan getting fewer votes this time. Possibly a lot fewer.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@dmsilev: Yeah, that’s the second part of the fear-or-love thing that everyone seems to miss: don’t engender hatred.
lowtechcyclist
Leopards, faces, etc.
And it is amusing that some of them still hope for help from us Communist Demon-Rats who are so awful that the notion of cutting a deal with us, let alone actual power-sharing, is anathema to them! No, we evil people are supposed to be so generous that we’d save their sorry asses from themselves without expecting anything in return.
One can only laugh.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Ken: I hope they’d have objections! Giving McHenry more power allows them all to dodge responsibility and/or work out some sort of compromise (ie, govern). It would be a continuation of Trump’s use of “acting” officials.
catclub
@Anonymous At Work: Jeffries has 212 votes. House is 435 members, so 12 GOP abstentions should do it.
lowtechcyclist
@Tony Jay:
You’re right, that’s all it would take. Just ten of them not being in the building when the next vote takes place.
But it won’t happen, because they’ve sold themselves on the notion that nothing could possibly be worse than coming to terms with the Dems.
lowtechcyclist
Currently 433, so it would only take 10.
Anonymous At Work
@dmsilev: So, 5 defections or 12 abstentions? Imagine all 20 waiting until the end to vote at all, much less for who. That is power. Screwed up power because they have no governing philosophy or no philosophy they want to explicate…
Frankensteinbeck
Well, yes. That’s the core principle of modern conservatism.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Imagine if a few people learned something from this…
Tony Jay
@lowtechcyclist:
Charlie Cale voice – “Bullshit!”
Gym Jordan voice – “You reckon so, huh? Hold my beer.”
The only power they hold rests in unity and a common appreciation of the value of their vote in a representative democra…..ahhhhhh, fuckit, you’re right. Gutless as a hollowed out pig carcass and so dumb they couldn’t pick between a chocolate mouse and an upturned ass.
Jeffro
Yup – and they’d be right, too.
I saw one of the WaPo’s op-ed clowns proposing that maybe there should be no Speaker (yes, really). Sure, let’s just destroy another rule/law/norm just because Republicans don’t have any interest in rules/laws/norms. Unbelievable.
hueyplong
@There go two miscreants: “Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.”
Not sure how the process works, but it seems like someone should say “nominated” about the quoted line.
Self Satisfaction and Anger are having a fist fight inside my head as I read about how intolerable GOP reps find the thuggish tactics of their fellow Republicans only when turned on themselves.
efgoldman will live forever.
Paul in KY
@Wag: They just have to caucus with us. Can be ‘Independents’ or ‘American Independents’ or ‘(Insert Name Here) for (Insert State Here)’ Party.
Ken
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Being shot didn’t change Scalise’s stance on gun legislation, so I have my doubts.
Also if any of them do learn from this, I suspect all that would come out of it is a law forbidding publishing Congressperson’s phone numbers.
Geminid
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: There are some Republican Reps whose careers are going to end anyway because they are ready and/or willing to retire. I’m not saying they will defect, just that they are more likely to defect than their colleagues who hope to make it into the next Congress
Ed. As to physical peril, 10 Republican Representatives voted to Impeach Trump and they and their families remain unharmed. Two are in this Congress. The reaction to a “wrong” vote here would be no greater than to an Impeachment vote, it seems to me, and will likely be less.
Paul in KY
@dmsilev: The ‘ruler’ thing only applies if you are an absolute monarch or dictator.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
In the abstract, that’s a legitimately hard choice. You just have to know what you want.
H.E.Wolf
Good morning! It is indeed a beautiful day. The Democratic Party in the US House is united, and grassroots activism this fall is trending Democratic as well.
On which note, who would like to come off the bench and write a few GOTV postcards? I just got a teeny-tiny finger brace for an injured finger tendon – on my writing hand, of course! – and the resultant slowdown reminds me to invite other folks to join in. The more the merrier!
https://balloon-juice.com/postcard-writing-opportunities/
NotMax
@p.a.
Night of the Long Q-tips?
//
Paul in KY
@There go two miscreants: On that quote: No shit
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Mary Gay Scanlon (PA-05) here. She’s been outstanding since day 1. And her primary was contested by a deep pool of 10 great candidates. The Democratic Party is very strong in this corner of the state. Not sure how true that is at the state level, but we just got back a majority in the state leg. And of course there’s Fetterman.
NotMax
Very good 15 minute report about the Xi & Putin economic confab currently bring held in China.
TriassicSands
Gee, is it possible that some Republican House members are beginning to see what it is like dealing with the Republican Party. Jordan is Trump-lite and being revolted by Jordan’s tactics should make the entire party wake up and realize who and what they’ve become? But it won’t. Republicans think only of themselves and House Republicans are even more narrowly focused — on keeping their jobs no matter what they have to do to accomplish that. No matter who they have to bow to or hurt.
Unfortunately, for Jordan, as this all plays out publicly, some Republicans may actually come to realize that making Jordan the Speaker of the House will create a potential risk for all of their seats, especially those in swing districts. Sadly, I don’t think this is likely to result in any wider understanding or changes in behavior beyond this immediate issue. For example, I wouldn’t expect any sudden upsurge in House Representatives denouncing Trump and extremism.
Still, if they reject Jordan and every other possible candidate drawn from the worst of worst, then it may save us from circling the drain even further down the toilet.
Anonymous At Work
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: In the last 20 votes or so for Speaker, Democrats are 100%. Only a few defections against Pelosi based on “someone else.” And you know she counted the votes and let them vote for “Someone Else (D-NYT/WaPo)”.
Chief Oshkosh
Yep. Not a single one of them is fit to serve. Some of the dumbest, meanest, vilest humans that exist in our time. Here’s hoping they and their constituents fully embrace the message of their lord and savior and fuck off to a cave somewhere.
NotMax
Unfair to clowns. And to cars.
//
cain
Strange that the media hasn’t asked republicans about working with the Dems as part of bipartisan comity. You know how they are always asking us Dems to do all the time.
They really think we are boy scouts !
Right wingers man.. both media and GOP.
Paul in KY
@Tony Jay: Ha ha ha! Oh, the alternate universe that might happen in…
Barbara
@TriassicSands: It never ceases to amaze me. This is the party that just about trademarked the phrase “Just say no!” to the rest of the world when it comes to drugs or just about every other form of conduct they deem socially undesirable. And here they are wringing their hands at having to stand up for their supposed actual principles because there is a possibility they might lose their plum position. And so they give away all the power they hold in that position in order not to lose it. These are very pampered, spoiled and essentially unserious people.
rikyrah
I will breathe a sigh of relief once 46 and AFO are out of the air space in the Middle East.
Geminid
@TriassicSands: One problem for House Republicans is that Jordan and his adherents could adopt a course of “rule or ruin.” McCarthy could barely get the required votes, and it could be that the hardliners won’t allow anyone else to.
I still think that’s a Republican problem though, and not a more general one. I expect that if this Republican caucus can’t fill it, the post of Speaker will be filled though the votes of 212 Democrats and 5 or more Republicans.
hueyplong
@TriassicSands: Things could still go in any direction, but one of them is a scenario in which the easiest way out for “moderate” GOPers after a bunch of Trump convictions and social media meltdowns is to pretend that Trump was great, as were his “policies,” but he somehow, at some indeterminate point, “went too far” in his personal makeup (and by that I don’t mean he chose the wrong shade of orange).
It will of course be easier for them if Trump conveniently falls victim to the fatal stroke that all people of conscience wish upon him. Others [raises hand sheepishly] hope for a non-fatal stroke of the Woodrow Wilson variety that leaves him able to comprehend his rejection but unable to do anything else.
And the foregoing is the rosiest scenario. Others aren’t so great.
Paul in KY
@rikyrah: Me too!
WaterGirl
@Anonymous At Work: Here’s what I wrote yesterday.
We already know, though, that one R was voted for McCarthy yesterday “out of loyalty” has said he will vote for Gym Jordan today. And one pro-Jordan R was out yesterday at a funeral, and he will be back today.
So that changes the numbers a bit. If everyone but those two voted exactly the same it would be:
Assuming everyone else votes the same, but have 11 R no-shows or 11 Rs voting present…
Otherwise, if the same number are voting (433) then we need 10 Rs to vote for someone who is not Gym Jordan.
JPL
@rikyrah: SAME! If something happened, the republican controlled House would not approve a new VP.
Jeff Del Papa
I saw an article earlier today, anonymous text to the spouses of the 20, demanding that they tell their partner to change their vote.
the 102nd chairborne are in fine form today.
WaterGirl
@H.E.Wolf: so sorry to hear about your finger!
Surely a few folks will step up to write in your place!
edit: Here’s the link to all the postcard information.
Political Action
Postcard Writing Information
Geminid
I saw a report that someone asked Hakeem Jeffries if Democrats would vote for extending Patrick McHenry’s temporary Speakership, and he replied, “All options are on the table to end the Republican civil war.”
Soprano2
@Geminid: I don’t think the danger is zero, but I think it’s extremely small. That said, if these people became independents and caucused with Democrats, the press would slobber all over them.
WaterGirl
@Jeff Del Papa: What I read is that at least one spouse had received an anonymous email that basically said “tell him to vote for Jordan” with an implied “or else”. I think i read that at TPM or Politico.
Wondering where you saw the info about 20 texts, one to each spouse?
Old Man Shadow
That’s consistent with conservative behavior: they’re only capable of caring about something or recognizing that it’s a problem when it happens to them.
Scout211
On the CNN live updates. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
ETA: Sour loser? I think auto-correct may be on to something. LOL
Dangerman
Is there a BJ equivalent of the Bat Signal for a nomination?
frosty
@There go two miscreants: Nominated!
Geminid
@Scout211:
“Sour, dour and losing power.”
Balconesfault
@lowtechcyclist: “Date rape” and all that …
BruceFromOhio
@rikyrah: Same. I started thinking about it and then stopped thinking about it.
WaterGirl
@Scout211: Thanks for that! My favorite parts:
Personally, I think the Rs are slow learners. Even someone from another planet who had never seen any of them before should have known – as soon as Gym Jordan told Scalise “you get one vote on the floor, and if you don’t win, you support me”
(The first word the aliens would learn is BULLY.)
… to which I would have replied: Fuck you!
Balconesfault
@TriassicSands:
“making Jordan the Speaker of the House will create a potential risk for all of their seats, especially those in swing districts.”
Making Jordan the speaker virtually guarantees that at some point in the future they will have to vote on articles of impeachment for Biden with no substance to them.
That’s a daunting proposition to anyone who will have to run in a Republican primary where a yes vote will be obligatory, and then run in a general election where a yes vote will be fatal.
McCarthy was just smart enough that he’d have kept the impeachment articles from coming to the floor, at least until after all the primaries were done.
hueyplong
@Jeff Del Papa: So instead of making an offer of, well, anything to the holdouts, they just re-threaten the spouses? At this point they aren’t even pretending to be something other than a RICO enterprise. Yes, holdouts, this is what you can expect regarding any and all issues that come up for the remainder of a Jordan speakership.
wjca
In all the responses to this, why has nobody pointed out that this should read:
“The GOP holdouts are only squawking now because the Freedom Caucus is aiming the mob at them again.”
Because, after all, the Jan 6 mob also was aimed at them. (See the pictures of Republican Congressmen fleeing down the halls that day.)
Apparently they are slow learners. Or possessed of very short memories, if they couldn’t foresee this happening again.
Redshift
I feel like there’s a certain similarity between Jordan’s nomination and the DeSantis campaign. McCarthy could get elected, barely, by horse-trading, but Jordan can’t win the holdouts over by offering changes (I hope!), it’s because, like Meatball Ron, the problem isn’t what he’s offering, it’s him.
Anonymous At Work
@WaterGirl: Scalise should have replied with “goose and gander, MFer” But that would take some abstract thought, I bet.
NotMax
@Tony Jay
Did someone say mousse? (In the broadest definition thereof.)
:)
SiubhanDuinne
Hmmm, odd. Anne Laurie had a post up about Biden in Israel. I wrote a long, thoughtful, grammatically-perfect comment, only to see the whole thing — post, comment, and all — disappear *poof* into the clear blue sky. Wonder why she pulled it.
OzarkHillbilly
@SiubhanDuinne: Because I had looked at it and she was afraid I might say something?
Cacti
I notice the Zionist-Juice front page hasn’t mentioned warmonger Joe’s visit to Israel to stick his nose up Likud’s backside.
I wonder why? 😏
NotMax
@OzarkHillbilly
Peek-a-boo posting.
:)
Geminid
@wjca: I think the Republicans you speak of could see these problems the day after the midterms. They just couldn’t figure out what to do about them. They hoped they could muddle through with McCarthy as Speaker, so they stuck to him like glue through 15 votes. Now they are back in the shit again. Sad!
wjca
The response might better have been: “OK. But you likewise only get one vote. If you don’t get elected, you drop out, too.” (Not that anyone would expect Jordan to honor such a commitment, of course.)
Redshift
@WaterGirl:
Don’t know about multiple spouses, but there was this story about multiple texts to one spouse (Don Bacon’s):
If that happened, it’s a good bet there were others, but I haven’t seen any reported.
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne: Clearly your views are being censored. SUBARU DIANNE IS BEING SUPPRESSED! SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM?! Aux barricades, Citoyens!
Ken
“I smeared my opponent, bribed the press to be on my side, and threatened to torture the electorate if we lost. I fail to see what more a decent politician could have done.”
— Pitt the Even Younger, Blackadder the Third “Dish and Dishonesty”
Geminid
@SiubhanDuinne: I think that post will be up later. There’s plenty else to talk about now, and Biden will be “wheels up” before too long.
hueyplong
@Redshift: Kind of feeling like the content of these texts fades in importance compared to the fact that they were sent to the spouses of the reps instead of the reps themselves. This is arguably worse form than wearing a tan suit in the White House while Black, or calling wannabe SS gangsters “deplorable” while penile-challenged.
Redshift
@hueyplong: And that they were texts instead of emails (at least some of them.) A spouse’s phone number is not in any way a legitimate channel for lobbying your rep, it’s only a way to try to be threatening.
sdhays
@Scout211: I’m getting sick of these credulous reports that pirate captain Gymmy the Jordan wasn’t involved in any intimidation tactics. Assuming that’s true, all that means is that Jordan didn’t personally make any threats.
Don Corleone didn’t typically personally issue his threats either.
montanareddog
@Chief Oshkosh:
And some of the whitest and malest. The video last week of the Democratic caucus on the steps of the Capitol, where Jeffries, Clark and Aguilar gave speeches about the Speaker shitshow, was a striking visualisation of the diversity of the Dem caucus when compared to the Rethug caucus.
rikyrah
@Geminid:
BWA HA AH AHA HA HA HA
rikyrah
@WaterGirl:
CONTACTING the spouses should have been an automatic disqualifier
Cacti
@SiubhanDuinne: Because AL and Adam are in the tank for Israel.
Nelle
My rep voted for Jordan yesterday; I’d gotten five people to call yesterday but the fix was in. I just called again and did my chatty grandma talk with a lovely 22 year old in the office who just arrived in DC. We talked about walking in DC (I lived there when I was 22). I asked if my rep was still in the Air Force Reserves (he is) and reminded her that his oath is too the Constitution, not to the party. I said that my husband, a Naval Academy grad with, among other things, three tours in Vietnam, still takes that oath seriously and is disturbed that the rep does not seem to as he supports someone who sought to overturn an election to be second in line for the presidency. Also that the man and his staff and followers believe that the way to get what you want is to threaten and bully and that is a rotten message for a smiling man who touts family values to send out to his constituents. I do chatty grandma well as that is who I actually am.
Now I need to harrass Grassley’s office for blocking the Afghan Adjustment Act, offering a path to citizenship for Afghan refugees.
Bobby Thomson
I’ll drink their booze and vote against them, but I draw the line at screwing their women
Trucmat
@Cacti:
That’s either an ignorant take or a dishonest take. Adam wrote a detailed analysis of the situation that by no means let Israel off lightly. Check your own bias before casting stones.
Cacti
@Trucmat: Adam is intelligent, erudite, and an absolute shrinking violet when it comes to any public disagreement with him.
AL has always censored posts she doesn’t like, and most recently, it’s anything remotely critical of Israel.
H.E.Wolf
@WaterGirl:
Yes, I am banning myself forevermore from using heavy-duty pruning shears in the garden. :)
The good news is that I have an excellent Occupational Therapist, and I’m 1-for-1 on completing my rehab exercises! Let’s see if I can keep up the good work on day 2.
And it’ll be a great mood-lifter if/when some additional postcarders weigh in at the Saturday evening party thread!
Searcher
This is what a breakup of the Republican Party looks like, right?
I don’t really hold out a lot of hope that the moderate(?) and extremist(anarchist?) wing of the Republican Party will really split, but not being able to elect a Speaker seems like a pretty solid indictment of the ability of the different factions of the party to work together.
Geminid
@Cacti: I have seen all kinds of comments critical of Israel across almost every post here since this latest war started.
Subsole
@cain:
The media does not want negotiation. They want capitulation.
They do not want balance. They want obedience.
They want endless, cringing, servility. A bottomless, silent well of coddling, pandering indulgence of Conservatives and their every sadistic, asinine whim.
And it ain’t the money. They could make five times the money and get 100 times the eyeballs reporting honestly on GOP scandals. They don’t. They bury them, instead.
I honestly think it’s some sort of daddy issues, at this point.
Subsole
@Soprano2:
Would they? They slobber over Democrats who switch sides, because they make fine cudgels with which to beat us over the head.
But the other way? No. That hurts the GOP, and therefore must be studiously ignored until it becomes impossible to do so. At which point it must be studiously downplayed.
Paul in KY
@Redshift: Jordan was that muscled up asshole in HS that would threaten you to do what he wanted or get a butt whipping. It might have worked then (unfortunately), but it ain’t working now.
Paul in KY
@Cacti: I hate Likud Israel, but I’m never going to be for a bunch of evil whackjobs who only target stoned ravers & murder kids as their specific targets.
Cacti
@Paul in KY: Hamas is a monster that Mossad created as part of Israel’s ongoing desire to keep the Palestinians stateless and oppressed.
That’s not to mention the hospital the IDF just blew up. And the civilians that they’re starving and bombarding with cluster munitions and white phosphorus.
You are on the side of a brutal colonial oppressor.
Paul in KY
@Subsole: I think it is more the wishes of their presslord paymasters, who happen to heavily, heavily trend GQP.
Bill Arnold
@Cacti:
Maybe you did not know that “bloodthirsty” is an old antisemitic trope (I ended up refreshing about the history of it that night). It’s also a silly trope in context, since Muslims and Jews (especially including observant clergy) both are religiously prohibited from drinking blood.
Anyway, there has been a lot of criticism of Israel the last few days here. With a focus on accuracy. Social media has been a disinformation cesspool all around.
I certainly agree with your longstanding complaint (I always check the archives) about conflation of criticism of the Israeli government (most of them, historically) with antisemitism. That sort of conflation is usually crude bullying religious nationalistic propaganda, or unthinking parroting of the same. E.g. we see it in/from India as well.
Geminid
@Bill Arnold: This war has really brought out the haters. Hamas knew it would.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
I was trying to place who Gym Jordan looks like in most photos and it finally clicked…Steve Martin playing the not altogether there Ruprecht in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels!
Central Planning
You get nothing! seems appropriate
Central Planning
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: Except Freddy Benson was acting like Ruprecht. Gym isn’t acting.
Cacti
@Bill Arnold: When an IDF general refers to the population of Gaza as “human animals”, in what way is it not an apt descriptor?
Tone policing for a now war criminal. And liberals wonder why apoliticals find them smug and insufferable.
Balconesfault
” liberals wonder why apoliticals find them smug and insufferable.”
So basically you are finding “liberals” as being smug and insufferable for not immediately accepting your framing on any issue.
Are you really complaining about liberals here? Are you meaning mainstream Democrats? Or is this just about anybody who doesn’t agree with how you want things to be defined?
Manyakitty
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: I made a point of calling and thanking Emilia Sykes yesterday. She’s a good one.
Bill Arnold
@Cacti:
The translation I saw was more “people we are fighting”, which rather more narrow. But still dehumanizing. And even bloody-minded, which is a reasonable description. “Bloodthirsty” is not, in context, though in other contexts it is a fine and apt metaphor. The Russian TV propagandist who talked about killing everyone in large regions of Ukraine? Genocidal. Bloodthirsty, unless they happen to be Jewish. (CBA to look at their bio. Genocidal makes their bio irrelevant.)
Manyakitty
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: but without the charm 🤮
WaterGirl
@H.E.Wolf: At least it wasn’t writing postcards that did it! :-)
You can never go wrong by religiously doing your PT exercises. You can do it!