I am still not over the ridiculous and murderous ruling that came from the Arizona Supreme Court yesterday.
The territorial Speaker of the House in 1864 – for the territory that later became Arizona – was William Claude Jones.
He’s the one who is legislating from beyond the grave. He’s quite the role model, and definitely someone whose views should be determining women’s rights to self-determination and controlling our own bodies.
According to his Wikipedia page. William Claude Jones married a 15-year-old and was described contemporaneously as a “pursuer of nubile females”..
He abandoned his 15-year-old wife a short time later, and then married another 15 year old.
***
Speaking of dubious at best, I listened to a great discussion of Supreme Court rulings and more.
YouTube summary:
As the first-ever trial of a former President looks imminent & certain, an only-on-Talking-Feds roundtable of Molly Jong-Fast, Josh Marshall, & Sen Sheldon Whitehouse joins Harry to assess how the spectacle of Trump-in-the-chair will play on the campaign trail. They then move on to the re-emergence of abortion as a year-long white-hot political issue in Florida & therefore the election before taking on Trump’s vulgar attempts to exploit base anti-immigrant sentiment.
YouTube left off a description of the most interesting part where they talked briefly about the US Supreme Court and how they have recently become “triers of fact”, which is supposed to be reserved for the lower courts, and making rulings based on bullshit and “facts” that aren’t facts at all. That conversation starts around the 35-minute mark, and lasts maybe 10 minutes.
Sheldon Whitehouse and Josh Marshall were both at their best. I’m not that familiar with Molly Jong-Fast, so I can’t speak to whether she was at her best, but the whole thing was a great conversation.
Open thread.
Baud
William Claude Jones probably never imagined the infamy that would befall him a century and a half later.
Steeplejack
@Baud:
Let that be a warning to you!
narya
Molly has her own podcast; I’ve listened to it sporadically. She does occasionally have interesting guests and/or interesting things to say. (She’s Erica Jong’s daughter, for the olds hanging out here.)
Trollhattan
In case folks missed this, LGM’s Lemiux yesterday detailed how AZ Republican Governor Ducey literally court-packed the AZ Supreme Court and baked in this outcome (among others). He appointed five of the current seven, after having expanded the court from five to seven. One wonders what current Governor Hobbs might do to begin reversing the impact.
lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2024/04/arizona-supreme-court-sends-women-back-to-1865
TBone
Thanks for that video link, WG! I’ll be watching that in it’s entirety. An on-topic supplement:
jefftiedrich.com/p/arizonas-forced-birth-fascists-revive
TBone
@narya: we had every Jong book when I was a kid 💜
piratedan
as fractured as the AZ GOP is currently, they are in complete agreement that this monster that they constructed is an anvil politically. EVERY GOP candidate that is up for a federal office is running away from this decision and in every instance, receipts are being shown in response. AZ Dems are acutely aware of what is going down and THEY WILL tie this decision to the GOP at every opportunity. There is an abortion provision that has been in the works for months to get on the ballot, expect that to succeed now. I would also suggest that complacency on GOP retention and challenges to federal offices to now be uphill.
This WILL be the tipping point in at least two, perhaps three Congressional races (Schweikert, Ciscomani and maybe even Crane) and the Senate seat and could very well led to a flip (maybe even BOTH chambers) in the statehouse.
This is a big fucking deal here in the state. Both the Governor and the AG have said they aren’t enforcing this, but as we’ve seen before, out in the less urban regions of the state lay true believers and a local county AG could actually go there (see Cochise County).
Baud
@piratedan:
Good. The only thing we can control is our response.
dmsilev
@piratedan: I saw a statement from Kari Lake that was basically running away from the decision as fast as she could, to the point where she just about said that abortion was a private and personal decision.
How her head stayed attached to her neck after that bit of cognitive whiplash, I do not know.
WaterGirl
@piratedan: 60% YES on the abortion initiative is hard to get, but this ruling might just help them get over the top.
WaterGirl
@dmsilev: Good that she’s on tape 2 years ago, saying this law that was on the books was awesome.
Steeplejack
@narya:
Molly Jong-Fast also has a weekly piece in Vanity Fair and an active and useful Twitter feed (Nitter link here). And recently she has become a regular guest on many of the MSNBC political shows.
Dangerman
The world has gone mad.
I have never considered buying a dash cam but I’m shopping for one. Removable. For my LA driving.
There must be some site I can upload videos.
Dontdrivelikeadick.com?
There should be a way to know that the driver approaching you is an asshole. AI, please save me!
cain
@dmsilev:
That’s going to depress the pro-lifer vote for sure in that state. Probably open up the AZ GOP for attacks from other GOP areas in other states as well.
Of course, the media won’t pursue that – they got more ‘Biden is old’ stories to cover although since the SOTU that has pretty much died.
Old School
@Baud:
I feel slightly bad for him as I can’t find anything that says whether William Claude Jones voted for or against the 1864 abortion law.
It appears that the abortion law was part of the Howell Code (named after William Thompson Howell). Wikipedia doesn’t list ages for any of Howell’s three wives.
Trollhattan
@Dangerman: Grampa Uber driver in a shiny new Camry tried to take me out this a.m. and gave me a good stern honking for the temerity of existing in space and time. Mentally told him I have a real job and just go home.
Yay, commuting!
Butch
@Steeplejack: You said everything I was going to say, so I’ll just add that Molly is the one who first described “Judge” Jeanine Pirro as “a box of whine.”
zhena gogolia
@Dangerman: But I thought you were Dangerman!
piratedan
@WaterGirl: my understanding is that AZ is trending younger in the metro areas and this ruling orchestrated by Ducey (and is being traced back to him and publicized) and the AZ lege to “give” them this kind of reading and that the state wankers wrote their existing legislation to get THIS interpretation of territorial law.
Dems knew this was coming and its not like they set a trap, the GOP has been telegraphing this for a while and the locals just connected the dots. This is the same crew that punished the former State House leader for his testimony on the events of J6 and the fallout from Trump losing narrowly.
It’s not as if there wasn’t election urgency from Dems before, but this adds a level of clarity to the stakes. After watching what took place in Kansas and Ohio, I do not expect a different outcome in AZ, if the statewide referendum doesn’t get to 60, the statehouse flip is very much in play now.
MomSense
I’m really hating this trajectory. Should we take bets on when the witch trials will begin? How far backwards are we going to go?
Jackie
@trollhaven:
Also of note: After AZ judges are initially appointed, to retain their position they must be elected in.
The WaPo has a looong article about it. The tidbit about the judges is at the end. Two of the judges who voted yesterday are up for election THIS NOV.
gift link:
https://wapo.st/4cKIUjn
@Trollhattan:
Bex
@Steeplejack: Molly doesn’t look anything like that podcast picture. It’s about 20 years out of date. I love her two color hair, BTW,
piratedan
the local state blog for Dems is all over this issue with multiple articles and receipts, this ruling could also impact the GOP primary, some of which are hotly contested.
blogforarizona.net/a-few-thoughts-on-the-state-of-abortion-in-arizona-today-and-through-november/
this is just one of the four major pieces offered up at the state level. So if you’re into a deeper dive on AZ items, this is a decent place to start.
Steeplejack
@Butch:
Sometimes she just contributes to the yakfest, but occasionally she hits big, as here on Morning Joe, calling out Axios for both-sides-ing Trump.
jimmiraybob
From the Wiki page it looks like the first child bride was 12. And this came after he abandoned hist first wife and three children.
Bex
@MomSense: They’ve only just started. They long for the good old days of the 14th century.
Gin & Tonic
@Dangerman:
In Boston, that’s super-simple.
Mousebumples
I’m going to give a ☝️ to WaterGirl’s thermometers for Four Directions for AZ (& NV). I have no idea where we are with angel matches, but I might need to see if I have any extra scratch to throw in.
I feel for you, Arizonans. This is where I was afraid the WI SC decision would go… Until we elected Justice Protasewicz. (thanks again to all who helped postcard, donate, etc.!) Our SC tossed out an 1848 abortion ban not that long ago.
Steeplejack
@Bex:
I don’t know about the podcast picture. I don’t listen to it. Her Twitter pic is current. She toned down her hair a bit last year after she started appearing on the MSNBC shows.
beckya57
@Steeplejack: she’s also on Threads. @watergirl Molly JF is very worth following. Was on TV last night talking about how the normalizing frame of this very abnormal moment is enabling autocracy.
p.a.
Note that under Ceausescu! the abortion ban was more liberal than under some of the god-botherers.
Journal of Alternative Perspectives in the Social Sciences(2013) Volume 5 No 2, 294-322
Consequences of Romania’sAbortion Ban under Ceausescu’s Regime:
To achieve the demographic goals of the state,Ceauşescu criminalized abortion in 1966, demanding that each family have at least four children. In the 23 years that ensued (1966-1989), the policies enforced were among the most brutal in the world, resulting in serious socioeconomic consequences for the Romanians.
Decree 770, which came into being on October 1st
1966, instituted severe measures and punishments with the goal of eradicating abortion, effectively subordinating the people to the power of the state.
The new law created mechanisms of absolute control over people’s reproductive lives: gynechological exams became mandatory for women in their fertile years, and childless couples over the age of 25 were charged a celibacy tax (Scarlat, 2005; Kligman, 1998)
Although modern policies that ban abortion tend to have low efficacy, as they not so much decrease demand as shift it from legal to illegal markets, in Romania the abortion ban was very effective in the short run.
Decree 770 was implemented in October 1966. It effectively banned abortion, except when: a) the mother’s life was at risk; b)one of the parents had a hereditary disease; c) the woman was physically or mentally handicapped; d) the woman was at least 45 years old; e) the woman already had four children; or f) the pregnancy occurred as a result of rape or incest (Scarlat, 2005)
In order to effectively achieve its demographic goals,the government started to stringently regulate gynecologists and nurses in hospitals and maternity homes. It also implemented mandatory gynecological exams, without which women could not access public health care services. These policies led to a sharp decrease in the availability of back-alley abortions. At the sametime, although not officially prohibited, contraceptives were not available in the Romanian marketplace(Kligman,1998). Schools did not teach sexual education and the government used its propagandizing to advertise only the positive sides of maternity. Even movies that showed how to avoid a pregnancy were censored (Kligman,1998)
As mentioned before, the upper classes in Romania were most able to access family planning methods, with the burden of the abortion ban falling on the poor and rural populations whose choices were severely curtailed.
In Romania, a country that espoused strong “pro-family” values, the relative impoverishment of families led to high numbers of child abandonment. The difference between public discourse and action was striking: poverty and exhaustion led to such exorbitant child abandonment rates that state institutions could not take in any more members, and their infrastructure was so poor that children were kept in cages, often malnourished.
This situation increased infant mortality and infanticide rates to such a point that the government would not register a newborn until two weeks after their delivery (Kligman, 1998).
This conflict between government intervention and individual will led Romania to have the highest maternal mortality rate in Europe – by 1989, Romania’s maternal mortality rate was 169.4 per 1,000 women, in comparisonto 49 in Russia, the communist country with the second highest rates (Lataianu, 2001). This naturally led to a high number of orphans: Trebici (as cited inLataianu, 2001).
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: hahaha
Only when he’s running into danger, not when he’s dodging it.
Fake Irishman
@WaterGirl:
AZ needs simple majority. FL (that other dumpster fire decision) needs 60.
WaterGirl
@MomSense: We are going to stop them, MomSense. We will.
Bex
@Steeplejack: Don’t know what you mean by toned down. It’s still blonde and red,
Paul in KY
@Dangerman: Anything Trump on the car tells you. May not see alot of those out in LA.
Plus, people who vote good can also be terrible/jerky drivers.
bbleh
Meanwhile …
Trump says he wouldn’t sign federal abortion ban
cnn.com/2024/04/10/politics/trump-says-he-wouldnt-sign-federal-abortion-ban/index.html
Inquiring minds want to know:
— Probability he’s lying? (eta: by which I mean, not just saying what he thinks will sound good right now, but actively and deliberately saying the opposite of what he knows is the truth)
— Fraction of wingnuts who will believe he’s lying (for Jesus, of course) and of course will sign one in a heartbeat?
— Fraction of low-info voters who won’t think he’s lying?
WaterGirl
@Mousebumples: We just finished the NV match a few minutes ago!
So pretty soon the thermometer will show $10k for AZ and nearly $10k for NV. $10k each will be halfway there!
We have a new angel for AZ, I will check on NV in a minute.
BeautifulPlumage
@Bex: That picture is why she never smiles for photos now. Some RRWN used it to denigrate a piece she wrote about a very serious topic (may have been around abortion) and implied she found the subject amusing.
I like her podcast & guests : Fast Politics. Be warned that most Mondays her first guest is Rick Wilson, for those of you who avoid him.
Baud
@bbleh:
That probability is always 100%, on any topic.
ETA: Also, he doesn’t have to sign it for it to become law.
WaterGirl
@bbleh: Trump is definitely lying.
BeautifulPlumage
@Bex: Agree, same colors. She went with a shorter cut recently that looks great.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic: If this isn’t a situation for “all of them, Katie,” I don’t know what is.
Scuffletuffle
In
BostonMassachusetts, that’s super-simple.WaterGirl
@Fake Irishman: Oh, right. I knew that.
There’s so much going on, I apparently scrambled that detail. thanks
BeautifulPlumage
@narya: it was at one of her dinner parties that E. Jean Carroll met George Conway, who told her she had a case and encouraged her to file. Not sure if he also connected her to Robbie Kaplan.
Scuffletuffle
I think it is high time that we had a discussion of what the “Public Good” is exactly that is served by compelling people who are impregnated to carry to term no matter what. I suspect that the higher financial burden to taxpayers of the increased population of poor and medically compromised children might soon cause some discomfort.
bbleh
@Baud: Also, he doesn’t have to sign it for it to become law.
Ooh, good point. I wouldn’t give him credit for knowing that, but I’m sure at least some of his advisers do, and they might have briefed him on what a clever “out” it is.
Personally I think I give it about 70% actively lying 30% just saying what everybody agreed would be the best response and not thinking or caring about what might actually happen. I think he knows he’d sign it in a flash, because he couldn’t resist the show.
But I’m more interested in the other numbers. Ima guess well north of 90% of wingnuts don’t believe it for a minute, but mmmaybe there’s a few who are starting to doubt his True Christian Faith? Have read that there’s some stirring in the pews, not toward Dems but rather back toward a-pox-on-both-their-houses, we should stay out of this sordid pigsty. Wonder if that will be material anywhere.
Unfortunately I’m afraid there’s a lot more low-info voters who will be bamboozled by this. Like, 40-50% of them. It’s like his promise in 2016 not to touch Social Security.
Steeplejack
@Bex:
It used to be way more más—and purple!
catclub
1. he’s dead.
2. The legislature passed it.
3. Tell me again about the guy who wrote the Declaration of Independence i.e FREEDOM,….
and Sally Hemings?
Jay C
I’m surprised no one has mentioned what to me is yet another grotesquerie associated with the Arizona abortion decision: that bizarre “prayer session” in the chamber of the AZ Legislature with a bunch of nuts flopping around on the floor “speaking in tongues” – literal Holy Rollers – presumably praying for a favorable ruling….
PS: Anyone know if the election for those AZ SC Justices in Nov. is a simple “retention” election, or do they face alternative candidates?
Bex
@Steeplejack: Never saw her in that phase!
Josie
@Jackie:
The gift link doesn’t work for me, but I went directly to WaPo and read the article. I hope that someone is signed up to run against those two judges in November. If so, we could write post cards for them. Judicial elections are difficult since there is very little name recognition.
Fake Irishman
@Jay C:
if it’s retention, Hobbs gets to appoint new ones if they lose….
Steeplejack
@bbleh:
At this point “inquiring minds” should know that Trump is a congenital liar—one who “lies as often as he breathes,” to quote the assistant press secretary who resigned on January 6 (can’t remember her name)—and he will say anything if he thinks it will help him get elected and stay out of jail. No point in analyzing it.
Oh, yeah, he’s also mentally ill.
Bex
@Jay C: Sorta like the prayer meeting in the House Chamber when St. Moses Johnson was anointed.
Jay C
@Scuffletuffle:
Naaah: no “discomfort” likely in states with Republican Majorities in their Statehouses: what’s the likelihood of their ever voting an additional nickel of public money for poor children??
Citizen Alan
@Scuffletuffle: Why? None of the Forced Birth freaks support providing healthcare and other resources to impoverished children. The Venn diagram of people who want to abolish abortion and people who get physically angry when they see a young woman with 3 small children buying groceries on EBT is a perfect circle.
Ruckus
@Dangerman:
I have suspected for some time that in CA – or at least in SoCal, at least 1/3 of the drivers on the road have their heads located in their exit chute. It is extremely possible that I am underestimating that level and it may not be only CA. It is possible that the fact that in my lifetime, LA county population has grown 4 times it’s size from when I was born. Which is a somewhat long time ago, in the first half of the last century.
JWR
Possibly stupid question: How did this 1864 ruling make it to the high court, anyway, and did it involve some guy who runs one of those “Crisis Pregnancy” centers? I thought I’d read about that somewhere.
geg6
@Steeplejack:
Also the granddaughter of novelist Howard Fast.
Ruckus
@Dangerman:
I always assume that at least 33% of the drivers on the road at any one time really do not seem to care if they were to kill anyone else with their car, as long as they get where they want to go. My percentage may be on the low side.
Eunicecycle
@Steeplejack: I think it was Sarah Mathews. She was on Nicolle’s show yesterday.
Steeplejack
@Josie:
To late for you, but for others—gift link fixed:
“Catastrophic,” “a shock”: Arizona’s abortion ruling threatens to upend 2024 races.
gvg
From a legal standpoint IANAL what I have heard so far makes me think their ruling may be correct and the law does still stand. I thought the argument that it didn’t because of some implication of a subsequent law was shaky and possibly based on wishful thinking. Realistically we cannot leave laws like that lying around to be misused. They need to be actually repealed IMO.
Morally is a different matter. that law should never have existed. It is going to kill more women, again, just like it did before. Only solution is repeal or pass a constitutional amendment (state)
If we get to where we can pass an amendment, I think it would be worth putting in that all prior laws about abortion are repealed. that way if they ever repeal an amendment, they also have to put in what they do want, and get the responsibility for it.
We trusted in Roe too long and needed to codify it. Not sure it was ever possible, but we did need it.
We need to codify privacy rights too. With the internet, that is going to be an issue for both sexes. Thats a different related fight, and I can’t say I even understand it all.
WV Blondie
@geg6: Yep. I personally have always disliked “nepo names,” where a child uses the famous last names of their distinguished predecessors. Molly poses a particularly noxious example, using both her mother’s last name and her grandfather’s last name.
OTOH, it clearly helped her break into NY media circles … for better or worse.
Melancholy Jaques
@bbleh:
Trump is saying he won’t sign a federal abortion ban not because he won’t sign one (he will and he will brag about it), but because by saying this he can get the political media to give Biden four pinocchios for saying Republicans will impose a federal abortion ban.
MattF
Kevin Drum went to the trouble of reading the Az justices’ decision. It came down to the legal significance of a footnote in the current statute. Is the footnote an enforceable part of the statute? The fault here is with the extremists in the Az legislature that voted to put that footnote there.
And, FWIW, I’m a bit surprised to learn that Arizona was a state in 1864.
ETA: Or maybe it wasn’t.
piratedan
here’s something really scary, one of the current state legislators (Anthony Kern) invited some of the peeps who are wholly behind the developments of the AZ Supreme Court. Link is to a video obtained by a tik-tok account from a “prayer session” that takes place in the Legislative chamber itself.
secondnexus.com/arizona-kern-abortion-senate-tongues
Soprano2
@piratedan: What I don’t understand is how a law that was passed before AZ became a state can be considered still valid. I would think statehood would wipe the slate clean on laws.
What a horrible thing for the people of AZ, but it’ll sure help Dems in November.
Melancholy Jaques
@Soprano2:
It’s possible that when AZ became a state it incorporated the entire body of territorial statutes.
TBone
@Jay C: I posted a video of that absolute nightmare yesterday. Speaking in tongues.
ETA I see PirateDan has linked. Thanks, everyone should know about this.
Librarian
Also, 1864 was 17 years before the gunfight at the OK Corral.
Ruckus
@MomSense:
When the car is in reverse and the throttle is stuck wide open one pretty much has to wait till the car crashes or runs out of fuel.
I see no difference in politics from a runaway car. A segment of the ruling segment either has to change their minds – which seems like a physical/mystical/magical dream or die off. And as there will likely always be a segment of the population that always has to tell/demand that everyone else live like they think we all should do, even though they almost never do, this seems like an impossiblity.
Jackie
Happening right now:
Reporters are hovering outside the closed door 😂
I wonder how many bandages Johnson will have plastered on his face when they emerge!
Soprano2
@p.a.: I think having a policy like this is where Republicans would like to go.
Jackie
@Steeplejack: Thanks Steeplejack. I don’t know why my link went haywire 🤷🏼♀️
Kay
@jimmiraybob:
The article is from 2018 and since 2018 five states have banned child marriage, but it’s legal in the other 45.
The United States is really backward on womens/girls rights compared to other developed countries.
I didn’t really understand that until I started to compare – I don’t think most Americans are aware of it.
Baud
@Jackie:
I’m sure she will listen to reason.
Soprano2
@WaterGirl: All the God botherers know he’s lying, he’d sign one in a heartbeat if Congress passed one. To me the big problem is that lots of people don’t think he’s actually against abortion, that’s what they vote on rather than what he will actually do. I think too many of them still see him as that New York guy who they know probably paid mistresses to have abortions. They can’t imagine he would ban it.
TBone
@Jackie: I’m half surprised they’re not hogging for attention with a public debate press conference 😆🤢 but I know why it’s behind closed door.
Dangerman
@Trollhattan: I won’t take rideshare any longer; Uber drivers are most dangerous of all. Someday, there will be a helluva accident, Uber will get their ass sued off sndvthat will be the end of rideshare.
Baud
@TBone:
It’s because Speaker Johnson didn’t want to share a stage with Hunter’s dick pics.
piratedan
@Soprano2: I believe that the territorial charter can be adopted/modified as the foundation of a state constitution. 1912 is not exactly showing wholesale evolution and understanding of women’s rights at the time.
I believe that in 1862 Arizona was first a Confederacy recognized territory and in 1863, a federal one, as it was split from New Mexico Territory.
Dangerman
@zhena gogolia: Dangerman believes in safety! For example, mountain climbing, sign me up. Free solo El Cap? Hell no!!
SiubhanDuinne
@TBone:
I saw that when you posted it yesterday, and was 💯 convinced it was just a silly spoof, so I didn’t even bother to comment. It was many hours later that I learned, no, that state Senator really did bring a bunch of Holy-Rolling Tongue-Speaking folks into the chamber to
prayperform.From now on, I’ll take you at your word from the start.
Quiltingfool
Raffle winner announcement: If you won a raffle block (Ukraine and Four Direction quilt raffles), keep an eye on your mailbox. I mailed them out this morning, and according to the tracking receipt, if you live on the west coast, estimated delivery is Monday; everywhere else is Saturday. Not that I’d bet my life on it, but, maybe!
I had to fold them to fit an 8-1/2 x 11 mailer, so you might want to drag out the iron to press any creases. No iron? Uh, not sure what to do. My 65 y.o. self is astounded that people may not own an iron, but hey! Fabrics have changed! No disrespect towards iron-free households, lol. As a teen, I was in charge of ironing my dad’s shirts. I tried to explain to my mom they were “permanent press” and really didn’t need ironing. She didn’t buy it, so I made a game out of seeing how fast I could iron a shirt that would pass Mom’s inspection. Ah, the 70’s.
Watergirl, your block is in the mail, too, A thank you for all the work you’ve done for organizing the raffles and fundraising. I only wish it were more, you certainly deserve it!
I enjoyed working on the blocks, it really helps my mental health. We all need something to get through these trying days!
Oh, if TaMara is around, I liked the pet post where people shared their pet stories. I now want to get another cat, and rename Sassy – she can be Zooty and the new cat Rebo! No, just kidding. Yes, I am a Babylon 5 fan, so there!
SomeRandomGuy
TFG has a big sad coming to him. He keeps bragging he got more votes than any sitting President ever. That stopped being true at 12:00 noon 1/20/2021 – Biden now has the record for most votes for a sitting President. Taking away one of his toy lies is probably the only way to discipline him, short of a long prison term.
Donatellonerd
@WV Blondie: Her paternal grandfather and therefore her father’s last name. i think it’s ok to use the same hyphenated name you were born with and went through school with as an adult.
JWR
@MattF:
I wasn’t. Arizona didn’t become a state until 1912.
karen marie
Heather Cox Richardson has the most comprehensive explanation of the AZ law that I’ve seen. In context, the current ruling is even more preposterous.
OzarkHillbilly
That’s no problem in their minds. They’re just gonna cut the moochers off, and if a few die it must be God’s will!
Steeplejack
@Jackie:
Somehow you got Trollhattan’s comment at #4 in the URL part of the link.
Steeplejack
@Jackie:
On his face?! Think lower.
Kay
You’ll see more child brides with abortion bans.One of the reasons fundamentalist religious force girls to marry men is because the child is already the victim of a rape by that man that resulted in a pregnancy. They then force the child to marry to avoid rape charges for the man. They also don’t want to support a child and her baby, so forcing her to marry the rapist means she won’t be the responsibility of her parents.
Forcing girls to have the children of men who have raped them will result in more child marriages. Bet on it. I don’t really think Americans have gotten their arms around the whole set of horrors fundamentalist religious have in store for girls and women.
Jackie
Media Matters reports
Baud
@Kay:
Our side needs to learn how to be authoritarian about things we should be authoritarian about. We’ve been too cowed by libertarian chastisements.
WV Blondie
@Donatellonerd: My fairly intense dislike of the practice was born in grad school – the daughter of a professor was in the class behind me. She bragged about how she got in on her own merits (probably true), but after she started classes she started using her own last name in conjunction with her married name. This was in the ’80s, when that was an extremely rare custom. Today, I know, not so much. But I always thought she was a raging hypocrite. Didn’t help that it was an MBA program that I utterly loathed.
Josie
@Jay C:
Okay, I looked it up. The two judges must stand for a retention election (no opponent). If more than 50% for no, they must step down.
OzarkHillbilly
This being trump there is no way to know whether he was aware of the intricacies of what he was saying when he said it, but technically…
Biden was not a sitting president when he got those votes.
WaterGirl
@Kay: Excuse me while I go throw up.
Redshift
@Dangerman:
Here in VA, they can self-label with Gadsden flag license plates. That doesn’t cover all of them, but it gives you fair warning for a sizeable number.
The Thin Black Duke
In spite of how the spin doctors of the GOP and their enablers in the media attempt to control the narrative, I think they have no idea how immense the impact from Dobbs is going to impact them in November. That’s because a lot of women are going to die.
Baud
@The Thin Black Duke:
We haven’t heard many stories about deaths yet. Not sure we will between now and November. Hopefully enough voters have some foresight about the future.
ETA: I assume prescription abortion and ability to travel have helped save lives compared to that pre-Roe era.
Jackie
Pudd’n Boots is the newest Ted Cruz:
How soon will TIFG have a photo of Pudd’n Boots wearing a MAGA hat while phone banking with a prominent MAGA banner behind him? 🤭
Baud
@Jackie:
I’m sure he’s more interested in cultivating his own relationships rather than helping Trump.
Captain C
@Jackie:
I’m sure the 37 cents will help a lot.
Paul in KY
@Dangerman: My few Uber rides have been fine. You can always tell them to ‘slow the fuck down’ at any time in ride & they better damn well comply, IMO.
Uncle Cosmo
Actually, hon, you got the group name wrong: it’s Holy Rulers. Only aspirational as of press time, but watch that space!
Trollhattan
@Jackie: Did he work in “my good friend, Donald Trump” like Casey demanded?
TBone
@Baud: 😆 she just can’t help it, her expertise sets her apart
TBone
@SiubhanDuinne: I also was suspicious when I first saw it. This can’t be real! A healthy dose of skepticism is a wonderful thing, especially in these times so don’t let it wither!
TBone
@Quiltingfool: I recommend a clothes steamer. No chance of ruining anything important unless it’s silk.
Soprano2
@piratedan: I learned that most early feminists were actually against abortion because as you can imagine in the 1800’s the procedure was extremely dangerous; a lot of women died from it. So it’s not that surprising that in 1864 it would be outlawed. Things have changed, it’s crazy to have that law be in effect. This and the Comstock Act are good lessons that laws should actually be repealed if they’re no longer needed.
TBone
@karen marie: 👍
Up next: dueling with pistols. That’s another reason why the Squeaker meeting with MTG is behind a closed door 😉
JWR
Hmm.
Much as I hate to defend NPR, this senior editor who fled to a right-wing site to shitpost about NPR’s coverage is almost too funny. They link to his article at The Free Press, (where libs go to be reborn as clods), titled “I’ve Been at NPR for 25 years. Here’s How We Lost America’s Trust,” where America’s trust seems to lie in simply regurgitating GOP talking points. Like the Russia Hoax, the infamous Lab Leak theory, and Hunter Biden’s laptop. Good for a laugh or three.
Trollhattan
@Dangerman:
We’ll use them traveling to other cities where the taxi service has been hollowed out and light rail service doesn’t exist, and always try Lyft first. They seem less bad on average.
Here, the car services to the airport have been mostly eliminated and rideshare “surge pricing” has made the trip REALLY EXPENSIVE unless going very off hours. Winning.
Far as I know they’re all still losing money, too. What’s the end game?
Baud
@JWR:
Americans = Republicans
TBone
@Trollhattan: fElon Skum is gonna corner the robotaxi market, he said. 🙄 There’s nothing that fucking guy won’t lie about. A big reveal is for 8/8 (the Nazi code being the important thing about that number 88 -the number 88 represents the phrase “Heil Hitler,” because H is the eighth letter in the alphabet).
rollingout.com/2024/04/08/elon-musk-tesla-robotaxi/
Trollhattan
@JWR:
Stalker much?
Well that settles it: no self-identified psychopaths in the newsroom.
Barbara
@Trollhattan: It’s like they can’t wrap their minds around the idea that a news channel or a publisher that wants to get additional customers has to appeal to those customers.
Josie
Oh, good grief. Trump’s lawyers have filed another suit to stop the upcoming trial. It seems their reason is “just because.” (unlawful state or local government actions.) When do they get called out for filing frivolous lawsuits?
ETA: politicalwire.com/2024/04/10/trump-tries-again-to-halt-criminal-trial/
topclimber
This is BIG: Trump’s announcement that he will not sign an abortion ban puts him at odds with Sen. Tim Scott, who said he would sign whatever one Congress got to his desk.
You read it here first: Tim Scott has just taken himself out of the GOP race for VP. Which he had no chance of winning, but hey, I got a comment quota to fill.
TBone
@Josie: I saw on TV that they sued the judge. Again. Since the docs are sealed, not sure what’s going on yet.
Belafon
@Trollhattan: “We prefer those who are biased in favor of our democracy.”
Baud
@Belafon:
“So you admit it!”
JWR
@Trollhattan:
Yeah, what’s wrong with embroidering their coverage with a layer of lies, just as another “viewpoint”? Sorry, Berliner, but the Overton Window has already moved way rightward for my taste.
Martin
@Trollhattan: I don’t see that as an NPR problem, but as a GOP problem.
anitamargarita
@Soprano2: does he even need to sign it, though? If he doesn’t veto it in 10 days it becomes law anyway, or am I’m mis-remembering?
cmorenc
@Scuffletuffle:
You are way over-thinking this, and way over-valuing rationality as an influence:
The “public good” to those who are firmly anti-abortion IS that no abortions will be allowed, no “child in utero” will be murdered by abortion. That’s the beginning, middle, and end of the issue to them. Try talking an anti-abortion evangelical out of the belief that God divinely “sparks” a human life into being at the moment of conception – abortion not only messes with the unborn child, but messes with God’s will. Those considerations vastly outweigh any financial “public good” cost arguments, which sound crass and even downright evil to their ears.
The market for the argument you are making is pitching to the choir who tend to believe abortion should be legal, at least most of the time the first trimester plus later in appropriate circumstances deemed by a woman and her physician.
JWR
@Josie:
Broken link. (Some /%E2%80%8B stuff got in there.) Try this one.
And there’s this link to the NBC story.
Ken
And said, and said, and said… Robotaxis are announced every year by Musk, and are perpetually just six months down the road, same as full-self-driving.
catclub
@JWR: Broader diversity of viewpoints. When the Catholic Church is considering Sainthood, they appoint a Catholic Priest to be devil’s advocate. They don’t ask a protestant, or a muslim, or a satan worshiper.
I suspect there could be quite a broad range of viewpoints among a large group of Democrats.
Frankensteinbeck
Trump will change his position on an abortion ban tomorrow. Then again the next day. Then again the next. He’s been doing this all year, and presumably before. Biden will nail Trump with recordings of Trump bragging about overturning Roe. Nothing else will matter.
Nunc Pro Tunc
@catclub: Not quite. When the Catholic Church was considering Sainthood for Mother Theresa, they specifically sought out Christopher Hitchens to get a contrarian viewpoint.
Apparently, he was not interviewed in the capacity of Devil’s Advocate, the position having been abolished in 1983. Hitch later bragged that, during the meeting, he represented the Devil pro bono.
Sure Lurkalot
@Citizen Alan:
Add to that…support for unfettered access to guns, the death penalty, the rejection of summer school lunch programs and state child tax credits and, and, and…
Soprano2
@Kay: I know a woman who actually works with trafficked people. She said parents “selling” their teenage daughters to men in rural areas is a problem. She knew of a 15-year-old girl who was sold to a man in his 20’s who was in the Army. She said it happens in those areas more than you’d think. I agree, with these abortion bans it’ll happen a lot more. I think most people have no idea how these fundamentalists think about young women and girls, especially the ones in rural areas.
NotMax
@TBone
Diverting attention from his kill directive.
Josie
@JWR: Thanks. I’m not surprised that I messed it up.
Grace
@Jay C: Retention. They have 6-year terms after an initial 2-year term following appointment.
WaterGirl
@Sure Lurkalot: So sorry to see yesterday (belatedly) that you got Covid!
WaterGirl
@Josie: The weird thing is that the extra characters don’t show up anywhere in your comment. So I don’t think it was you that screwed up.
karen marie
@Steeplejack:
“(Arizona)State Rep. Matt Gress (R) moved Wednesday to bring a bill repealing the ban, which bans all abortions except to save the life of the other, to a House vote. Before a vote could be called, Republicans in the House—including Gress—voted to recess and temporarily table voting. It was unclear when voting would resume.”
brantl
@Dangerman: we could gofundme don’tdrivelikeadick.com?
mrmoshpotato
@karen marie:
The context makes this more insane and ass backwards?
Wow.
Soprano2
@JWR: When he says “viewpoint diversity”, he’s not talking about having women and people of color and gay people, he’s talking about political views. He never actually says that though, which makes his argument sound ridiculous. He should just outright say “We don’t have any Republican reporters”. Of course, he doesn’t really know that. I guess he assumes it because there aren’t that many white men there anymore.
Sure Lurkalot
@JWR: Bari Weiss (her media company) alert needed!
I read about half of this yesterday and had to stop at this:
Also, the opinion that NPR is radically left leaning is laughable.
gvg
@anitamargarita: Other way around. Look up pocket veto. He has 10 days to sign it. If he doesn’t and the legislative session is over, it’s a veto. Otherwise it goes back to the legislature…I guess they have to re pass it. Clinton did a few and I think Bush 1. I don’t recall it happening when the legislature was stiil in ”session”
dirge
Yeah, we’ve been seeing a lot of this lately. News organizations blatantly discriminating against fools, frauds, and cranks. Scientific journals censoring creationists and flat-earthers. Prosecutors openly showing their bias against criminals. Does no one care about diversity any more?
Jeffro
“I SAID STATES’ RIGHTS STATES’ RIGHTS STAAAAATES’ RIGHTS, NOW QUIT ASKING ME QUESTIONS I DON’T WANNA ANSWER”
trumpov’s telling comment on punishing doctors who provide abortions
Good luck dodging this one for seven more months, Donnie!
See, GOP? There is a downside to a leader with no principles except
staying out of prisonhis own power.Keep asking, reporters! You’ll get him on camera, red-faced and screaming “I SAID STATES’ RIGHTS NOW SHUT UP!!” before the month is out.
Ruckus
@Bex:
They long for the good old days of the 14th century.
That late?
Soprano2
@Baud: It is true that they’ve tried to go after the minority audience but it hasn’t worked that well. I think the Republicans changed after TFG was elected in 2016, and even if NPR had more Republican reporters the Republican listeners would have left anyway. He sounds like what he is, an older white man who is butt hurt that people like him don’t dominate NPR anymore. He’s probably mad there are so many women.
I actually think it’s Americans = white men. Just like usual, people in the press think the white man is the “default”, so if the white man doesn’t like what you’re doing there’s something wrong with it.
Sure Lurkalot
@NotMax:
Yeah right. One reason, competition. Like Musk’s idea of free speech is a platform he controls, he has the same affection for the free market…he’ll play if it’s free from any one else.
Trollhattan
@Ruckus: Checks out: Black Death arrives at Messina, October 1347.
Old days, good days, bestest days.
Ruckus
@Gin & Tonic:
It’s always a pretty good bet in most places that it’s at least one out of every four. At least.
And some places that rises to something like at least one out of every two.
It gets worse in places where public transportation is considered inhumane.
Ruckus
@Trollhattan:
Awwww a plague, the plague, any plague.
dirge
I am so tired of this lie.
sdhays
@JWR: They lost my trust over ten years ago because this piece of shit was driving reporting. I still miss it. But my blood pressure is much more under control after letting them go.
2liberal
TV series binge on Amazon Prime:
youtube.com/watch?v=Fvkr8AFqEBM
Baud
@gvg:
The bolded part is wrong. If they’re still in session, it becomes law without his signature.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
His lips were moving?His eyes were open? (He’s lying whenever he’s awake – and I’d bet quite often when he’s not)
gvg
@mrmoshpotato: The Constitution is older than that and we follow its laws (mostly). They also had representation problems and made bigoted laws that did not recognize women’s rights. The FACT that everything about this law is offensive, does not mean it’s not in force now the superseding Federal law ruling has been overturned. The way to deal with it is a new law. If Republicans actually wanted to solve the problem, they would quickly pass a new law.
They have not mentally adjusted to the reality that their ideas are really not the veal beliefs of most voters. they have been telling themselves for years that they were the majority, that most Americans did not want any abortion,,,,,we have to prove them wrong for the next several voting cycles
PST
@WV Blondie:
That might be a little unfair. She has her mother’s and father’s last names linked by a hyphen. There was a bit of that going around in the 70s and 80s. Wikipedia doesn’t show her having any different “birth name.” I recall a nightmare of hyphenated names at my daughter’s (b. 1985) school when I was on the board.
JWR
@Sure Lurkalot:
Same here. I mean, didn’t Mueller state that his report didn’t look into collusion? Yes, he did. That “collusion” idiocy will never die. Thanks a bunch, Bill Barr and our lazy Liberal media.
Kay
@Soprano2:
I met a woman who was married off by her parents at 15. She had two children with her 24 year old rapist/husband which kept her in the marriage for 4 years – she was afraid she would lose her children if she left because she had no skills, education or money. And she was right. A court awarded her children to the paternal grandparents – the rapists parents. It took her 4 years to get them back.
They won’t leave it if it means leaving their kids at the mercy of the cult members and rapist/father.
The parents know the girls can’t leave these marriages, that they’re trapping these girls. That’s the objective.
strange visitor (from another planet)
@JWR: no. iirc, the report said that the term, “collusion” isn’t a crime and that they couldn’t prove a criminal conspiracy beyond reasonable doubt because of all of the documented episodes of obstruction of justice as noted in the report and all the uncooperative witnesses who were dangled pardons so that they wouldn’t testify.
anitamargarita
@gvg: ah, thank you for clarifying
Sister Golden Bear
@bbleh: He won’t have to. His cronies have already signaled that they’ll invoke the Comstock Act to ban abortion, contraception and anything having to do with LBT, and especially T, people.
p.a.
“tRump continues to speak in generalities about…” hey MSM, let me do some free editing for you: “… about X because he doesn’t have the mental capacity to understand anything beyond vague slogans.” You’re welcome.
(Actually, something like enlarging the death penalty might get his attention and focus his “mind”, and that tells you reporters all you need to know.)
Ruckus
@Scuffletuffle:
I think it’s way past high time we discuss actual freedom in this country.
Freedom to not give birth if so desired.
Freedom from intrusion from government unless IT is in an actual danger to another person, whatever IT is. Drunk driving creates a very valid reason/necessity to intrude. For example.
Birth control and desired abortion DOES not.
PST
@MattF:
I read it too. The result is deplorable, but both the majority and the dissent were reasonably logical. (I would have joined the dissent.) The fault lies with Dobbs and everything that led to Dobbs. I blame TFG and the Turtle. What happens when a long-established statute is found to be unconstitutional by the Supreme Court if the Supreme Court later reverses itself? All the justices agree that the statute was never repealed, and it doesn’t just fade away from the lapse of time. It really doesn’t matter how bigoted the territorial legislature was, how long ago that was, how narrow the franchise was, or how astonishingly crazy some contemporary laws were. And to be fair, there were several times during the ensuing decades after statehood that the statute in question was passed again as part of a codification of the law. It all came down to a rather technical debate about how to reconcile the 1865 law with a 2022 law (itself pretty awful) that didn’t purport to repeal it. For what it’s worth, the dissent (which is to say the good guys) wrote:
I suspect both opinions were in fact result-oriented. Mine would have been had I been on the court. But there was enough actual logic and law on both sides to make them plausible. This wasn’t Cannon nonsense or SCOTUS partisan procrastinating.
karen marie
@Soprano2: Above in this thread I posted the link to Heather Cox Richardson’s history from 1864 that puts the law in context. It had zero to do with the welfare of women.
WaterGirl
@Ruckus: All of the above.
ColoradoGuy
The GOP True Believers aren’t hiding it any more. They aim to bring back slavery, bit by bit, starting with women.
No surprise they are aligned with Putin, who is a neo-feudalist, and sees himself as a Tsar.
Leto
Christ, John Bolton currently on Nicole Wallace’s show. Not sure why he isn’t part of SpaceX’s rocket test program…
Bupalos
Can you “be authoritarian about some things?” I’d suggest you’re either oriented towards authoritarianism and away from democratic civil rights or vice versa? I’d say you can argue about what is included and excluded from individual rights, and you can be more or less adamant and demanding about their inclusion or exclusion- more or less willing to negotiate that with your fellow citizens. But I don’t think moving those lines here or there to carve out particular issues within a democratic process deserves to be described as “being authoritarian” about them. And I hope you don’t mean “we shouldn’t submit to democratic processes when we don’t like their outcome.”
Trollhattan
@Leto:
John Bolton: a.k.a. Guy who was nuts even by Bush II admin standards yet proved not nutty enough for Trump admin.
Kind of a litmus test.
Princess
“Stay angry little Meg,” whispered Mrs. Whatsit. “You will need all your anger now.”
JWR
@strange visitor (from another planet):
That’s right, I think. But I’ve never really gotten the whole Collusion, No Collusion thing anyway. Just that it doesn’t mean what Repubs want it to mean.
Trollhattan
@Bupalos:
Smorgasthoritarian.
Think I’mma copyright that.
Baud
@Bupalos:
I’m using authoritarian as a counterpoint to libertarian, not as a counterpoint to democracy.
Dangerman
I’ve thought about it.
Want to know if your Uber driver is a dick? License plate is given out. Check don’tdrivelikeadick.com.
Want to know if your potential employee is a dick? Find the license plate and check don’tdrivelikeadick.com..
Want to know if your potential boyfriend or girlfriend is a dick? Find the license plate and check don’tdrivelikeadick.com.
Now, it wouldn’t work on a number of levels and a number of reasons, but I’m tired of dick drivers.
LA, get a fucking grip (note, only Big City I deal with these days is LA; I avoid SF and Silicon Valley entirely these days and, if I’m heading north into the Coastal Areas, I take a big time swing around the City. I’ve seen the Golden Gate. Hell, I’ve walked the Golden Gate. Been there, done that, too cheap to buy the shirt.
Jackie
Jarod Moskowitz strikes again! This in TIFG’s accusation that Democratic Jews who don’t vote GQP hate Jews:
twitter.com/JaredEMoskowitz/status/1778105437381890380
SiubhanDuinne
@Leto:
She gave him a huuuuge amount of air time. Ugh.
WaterGirl
@Trollhattan: Pretty much.
Ruckus
@Ken:
I imagine the largest stumbling block is insurance. It’s bad enough when humans are in charge. But full driving software out of elon’s shop? Is the insurance going to cost more than the vehicle? And sure humans cause accidents but at least mostly have at least the ability to see when something goes wrong. A computer has to be built around noticing most everything that can go wrong and react properly. It’s not the response time it’s the decision time after noticing and recognizing before the response time.
Bupalos
@Baud: Gotcha. I just don’t think it’s a word to try and seize or reinterpret. We don’t need to be a little authoritarian here and there. We need to stick to our democratic values and the rule of law everywhere.
Matt
@TBone: Fundamentalist Christianity is the direct cause of a epidemic of mental illness in this country.
At some point the voices in their heads shouting “KILL FOR JEEBUS” are going to win.
We’ve seen the results so many times at small-scale that there’s a name for when a dude flips out: a “family annihilator”.
Fifty years from now, we’re either going to have gotten these folks treatment or we’re going to have a theocracy (and mass graves aplenty).