• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

This blog will pay for itself.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

…and a burning sense of injustice to juice the soul.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

It’s not hopeless, and we’re not helpless.

Even though I know this is a bad idea, I’m off to do it anyway!

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

It’s a new day. Light all those Biden polls of young people on fire and throw away the ashes.

There are no moderate republicans – only extremists and cowards.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

Today’s gop: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

President Biden is doing good where he can, and getting it done.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

Mobile Menu

  • Four Directions Montana
  • Donate with Venmo, Zelle & PayPal
  • Site Feedback
  • War in Ukraine
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • COVID-19 Coronavirus
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • 2024 Elections
  • Garden Chats
  • On The Road
  • Targeted Fundraising!
You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Military / More Friedman Units to Provide a Clear-Eyed View

More Friedman Units to Provide a Clear-Eyed View

by John Cole|  February 27, 200810:57 pm| 76 Comments

This post is in: Military, War, Republican Crime Syndicate - aka the Bush Admin.

FacebookTweetEmail

Remember the set of ludicrous charts from the Petraeus testimony, in particular this one that Kevin Drum mocked:

Look closely at the chart, and then remember Kevin’s sage words:

It looks like some kind of timeline for withdrawal, but all it actually says is that we’ll withdraw five brigades by next July, something we already know is driven not by strategic considerations but by operational realities, and that eventually — someday — we’ll draw down to five brigades. Could be tomorrow, could be ten years from now, but hey — the slide shows troops levels going down, and that’s the graphic that counts.

And the target date for deciding whether the actual date is tomorrow or 2017? March of 2008, exactly six months from now. Sometimes these guys make Atrios’s job too easy.

The chart actually states that the decision will be made around March 8th, which is next week. And look what appears today in the NY Times:

The commander of American forces in the Middle East says he will endorse a brief pause in troop reductions from Iraq this summer, but then will seek a resumption of withdrawals to ease stress on the overall military and allow him to balance deployments across the volatile region.

Those comments by Adm. William J. Fallon, leader of the military’s Central Command, added to indications that American troop levels in Iraq would hold at about 140,000, at least temporarily, after the departure by July of five additional combat brigades ordered to Iraq last year by President Bush.

But Admiral Fallon, in an interview on Tuesday at his headquarters at MacDill Air Force Base here, made clear his appraisal that the halt in reductions should be temporary — and brief — just long enough to allow “all the dust to settle” and to provide an opportunity for “a clear-eyed view” of the way ahead.

Operation Dump This Mess On The Next Administration needs some more Friedman Units.

FacebookTweetEmail
Previous Post: « The Stupid, It Burns
Next Post: Thursday Open Thread »

Reader Interactions

76Comments

  1. 1.

    Buck

    February 27, 2008 at 11:20 pm

    Operation Dump This Mess On The Next Administration needs some more Friedman Units.

    Love it!

  2. 2.

    jake

    February 27, 2008 at 11:29 pm

    I still can’t look at The Pet Raeus chart without thinking of this one.

    I also can’t help but think “overwatch” is synonymous with “reacharound.”

    Maybe I think too much.

  3. 3.

    TenguPhule

    February 27, 2008 at 11:51 pm

    Gen. Betrayus proceeds like clockwork.

  4. 4.

    cd6

    February 27, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    I enjoy “tactical overwatch” as much as the next guy, but I think that they really went overboard on the “strategical overwatch” in this season.

  5. 5.

    Dennis - SGMM

    February 27, 2008 at 11:58 pm

    Of course, the additional brigades added to the Army by Donald Rumsfeld, along with those added by current SecDef Robert Gates will mean that the Army can maintain that troop strength in Iraq without having to send a troop there three, four or even five times in a row. Not to mention that the time between deployments has allowed the troops to spend time with their families, retrain and re-equip. The farsighted Sec’s also have relieved the strain on the National Guard. Without those added brigades guardsmen would have had to spend years away from their civilian jobs and their loved ones.

    /snark

  6. 6.

    TenguPhule

    February 28, 2008 at 12:05 am

    It’s like watching a long slow motion charge of the Light Brigade with about 2000 times more people.

  7. 7.

    Zuzu

    February 28, 2008 at 12:07 am

    Wow wow wow.

    Good catch.

    Really really good catch.

  8. 8.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    February 28, 2008 at 12:32 am

    But the Surge is working:

    Iraq’s three-man presidency council Wednesday announced that it’s vetoed legislation that U.S. officials two weeks ago hailed as significant political progress.

    OK. Not the best example. This is good news:

    Also Wednesday, U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said he hoped that Turkey’s incursion into northern Iraq to fight Kurdish rebels would last a “week or two” but “not months.”

    That sure told’em!

    I’m not sure we can take much more this success.

  9. 9.

    Dennis - SGMM

    February 28, 2008 at 12:40 am

    Also Wednesday, U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said he hoped that Turkey’s incursion into northern Iraq to fight Kurdish rebels would last a “week or two” but “not months.”

    Donald Rumsfeld, 2003: “It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months,” he said, speaking at the American air base at Aviano, in northern Italy.

    John McCain, 2008: At a town hall meeting in New Hampshire, a crowd member asked McCain about a Bush statement that troops could stay in Iraq for 50 years.

    “Maybe 100,” McCain replied.

  10. 10.

    Tax Analyst

    February 28, 2008 at 12:58 am

    The Grand Panjandrum Says:

    But the Surge is working:

    Iraq’s three-man presidency council Wednesday announced that it’s vetoed legislation that U.S. officials two weeks ago hailed as significant political progress.

    OK. Not the best example. This is good news:

    Also Wednesday, U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said he hoped that Turkey’s incursion into northern Iraq to fight Kurdish rebels would last a “week or two” but “not months.”

    That sure told’em!

    I’m not sure we can take much more this success

    Break out the hats & hooters! I’m gonna ride my pony all the way to Eye-rack to get me a clear-eyed view of all teh sellybration & candy & flowers.

    Yup, I’ll be over-watchin’ the whole spectickle.

    Does the bullshit EVER stop with these guys? Yeah, that’s purely rhetorical – by now we know all too well that it doesn’t.

    Good call, John

  11. 11.

    srv

    February 28, 2008 at 3:24 am

    In case you aren’t angry enough, Wired has some new photos of Bushism at its best in Abu Ghraib.

    I’m sure Jonah can’t get enough of it.

  12. 12.

    DrDave

    February 28, 2008 at 6:51 am

    How many of you are old enough to remember the draft?

    How many are young enough to be drafted? Or have kids old enough to be drafted?

    Bush does not believe in military conscription–because God knows, he–and Cheney and most of the other hypocritical douche bags who got us into Iraq–did everything in their power to stay out of Southeast Asia, but has anyone asked McCain how he would man the military to stay in the Middle East at or above current troop levels for the next 5, 10, 50, 100 years?

    I’m not saying….I’m just saying.

  13. 13.

    cleek

    February 28, 2008 at 7:00 am

    hey, i know that chart!

  14. 14.

    Cassidy

    February 28, 2008 at 7:01 am

    Maybe a draft wouldn’t be such a bad thing. Not so much for iraq, but a little bit of public service might be good for most of the the younger generations.

  15. 15.

    Reverend Spooner

    February 28, 2008 at 7:50 am

    Maybe a draft wouldn’t be such a bad thing. Not so much for iraq, but a little bit of public service might be good for most of the the younger generations.

    As long as you had the option for non-military civil service, I wouldn’t have a problem with this. I’d also support Smedley Butler’s idea of a “war tax” that reduced the salary of every American to the level of the lowest soldier in the combat zone, for the duration of the conflict. (Assuming they made more than the privates, anyway.) If we did that, either a) we’d never fight another war of aggression, or b) privates would make $100,000 a year.

  16. 16.

    Cassidy

    February 28, 2008 at 7:55 am

    As long as you had the option for non-military civil service

    I just believe in community service, whether it be volunteering, Peace Corp., anything that requires young adults to give something back to the community.

  17. 17.

    DrDave

    February 28, 2008 at 8:00 am

    Maybe a draft wouldn’t be such a bad thing. Not so much for iraq, but a little bit of public service might be good for most of the the younger generations.

    Charlie Rangel has been saying this–and proposing it as legislation–for years. And I don’t necessarily disagree. Rangel’s two valid points are that (1) national service breeds patriotism because those who serve, civilly or militarily, feel that they have a vested interest in the nation and (2) the People would be more careful about allowing our leaders to [pick an adjective] haphazardly/carelessly/recklessly take the nation to war if THEIR kids might be the ones sent to the front.

  18. 18.

    Wilfred

    February 28, 2008 at 8:08 am

    I just believe in community service, whether it be volunteering, Peace Corp., anything that requires young adults to give something back to the community.

    Then support Obama; National Service is a central theme of this campaign.

  19. 19.

    jake

    February 28, 2008 at 8:23 am

    (2) the People would be more careful about allowing our leaders to [pick an adjective] haphazardly/carelessly/recklessly take the nation to war if THEIR kids might be the ones sent to the front.

    (3) It would make the Brown Squirts squeal like stuck pigs.

    The specter of a draft, by the way, is likely part of the reason for the chorus of “Ew, yuck, McCane!” from the fRightened Kneepadists. I know J.M. wasn’t drafted but he grew up in that culture. And how the hell else is he going to keep the U.S. in Iraq for 100 years?

  20. 20.

    srv

    February 28, 2008 at 8:57 am

    anything that requires young adults to give something back to the community.

    Because the bedrock of the american experiment is service to the state and not vice-versa. There’s no downside to indoctrinating everyone into that idea.

  21. 21.

    Cassidy

    February 28, 2008 at 8:57 am

    Then support Obama;

    Allready did. Voted in the Florida Primary.

    Something to bear in mind re: McCain and draft. McCain is not a draftee. “Career” Servicemen, of that time period, could barely tolerate draftees for multiple reasons. So while logically, a draft is the easy answer to maintain a long and lengthy occupation, the question is whether McCain has the same visceral distaste and could he get past that?

  22. 22.

    DrDave

    February 28, 2008 at 9:02 am

    And how the hell else is he going to keep the U.S. in Iraq for 100 years?

    By making Bush’s tax cuts permanent, of course.

  23. 23.

    cleek

    February 28, 2008 at 9:02 am

    Because the bedrock of the american experiment is service to the state and not vice-versa.

    ask not what your country can do for you. E pluribus enum.

  24. 24.

    cleek

    February 28, 2008 at 9:03 am

    “enum” ?

    quick, spot the programmer!

    “unum”, of course.

  25. 25.

    Dork

    February 28, 2008 at 9:03 am

    There’s no way they lower the troop numbers in July, John. If Iraq reverses in violence just months before the elections, they’re toast.

    And please don’t tell me that it has to happen, via some mandatory deployment this or that. They don’t give a fuck about the troops, only their politics.

    We’ll have 160K troops in Iraq until the 3rd week of October. Then, Bush’ll declare a huge troop withdrawl and shower McCain with credit for it. This shit is too easy.

  26. 26.

    SteveinSC

    February 28, 2008 at 9:06 am

    The violence that was Iraq a year or so has somehow gotten conflated with the invasion itself, and the surge somehow our victory in that war. Yes, the sectarian violence is down (not because of the surge), but the self-evident centrigual forces are there. It is all in suspension waiting for us to leave. Nothing has happened to cement the country together. Just factions like Yugoslavia, waiting for Tito to die. Each arming themselves and waiting. Oddly enough, now is the time to force the adminstration to start the withdrawal. Victory in Eye-rak!!!! Victory!!! Thank you Jesus, thank you! Then get the fuck out. I for one would be happy to give the fascists their victory party to see this done.

  27. 27.

    Dork

    February 28, 2008 at 9:15 am

    Speaking of several more Friedman Units…in a development that involves cronyism, incompetence, ridiculous expectations, and Lou Dobbs’ head exploding….

  28. 28.

    Dennis - SGMM

    February 28, 2008 at 9:18 am

    Remember the “Anbar Awakening”? Bushco and the Shiites have managed to mishandle it into
    Sunni Forces Losing Patience With U.S.
    The opening graf:

    Since Feb. 8, thousands of fighters in restive Diyala province have left their posts in order to pressure the government and its American backers to replace the province’s Shiite police chief. On Wednesday, their leaders warned that they would disband completely if their demands were not met. In Babil province, south of Baghdad, fighters have refused to man their checkpoints after U.S. soldiers killed several comrades in mid-February in circumstances that remain in dispute.

    This is good news for John McCain.

  29. 29.

    Cassidy

    February 28, 2008 at 9:21 am

    Because the bedrock of the american experiment is service to the state and not vice-versa. There’s no downside to indoctrinating everyone into that idea.

    I am assuming you’re being sarcastic, so forgive me if I’m wrong.

    1) Isn’t the bedrock of liberal thought the “community” or social betterment?

    2) Is it illogical to ask young adults to give back to a community that is essentially paying for their various education levels?

  30. 30.

    Krista

    February 28, 2008 at 9:24 am

    How many of you are old enough to remember the draft?

    How many are young enough to be drafted? Or have kids old enough to be drafted?

    Bush does not believe in military conscription—because God knows, he—and Cheney and most of the other hypocritical douche bags who got us into Iraq—did everything in their power to stay out of Southeast Asia, but has anyone asked McCain how he would man the military to stay in the Middle East at or above current troop levels for the next 5, 10, 50, 100 years?

    I’m not saying….I’m just saying.

    Shall I put on the coffee and go get some spare blankets and pillows, then? You’ll have to roshambo each other for the spare bedroom, but there’s lots of space in the yard for tents. :)

  31. 31.

    Punchy

    February 28, 2008 at 9:24 am

    From Dork’s link:

    But officials said yesterday that they now expect to complete the first phase of the virtual fence’s deployment — roughly 100 miles near Tucson and Yuma, Ariz., and El Paso, Tex. — by the end of 2011, instead of by the end of 2008. That target falls outside Boeing’s initial contract, which will end in September 2009 but can be extended.

    Crunch those numbers: they will take THREE YEARS to “fence” 100 miles. That means, with simple math, they will “fence” exactly 146 meters a day. 18 meters an hour. For a computerized fence.

    Boeing is sandbagging for the Mother of All Extended Contracts.

  32. 32.

    Krista

    February 28, 2008 at 9:38 am

    Is it illogical to ask young adults to give back to a community that is essentially paying for their various education levels?

    To ask them to give back to their community? That’s not illogical in the least. I think it’s something that should be encouraged in all youth and adults, be it at the community level or a national level.

    But to forcibly conscript them into a poorly executed war of choice — a war that the vast majority of them likely think was the ultimate exercise in asshattery? I personally don’t think that is at all fair.

  33. 33.

    ThymeZone

    February 28, 2008 at 9:38 am

    Shall I put on the coffee and go get some spare blankets and pillows, then? You’ll have to roshambo each other for the spare bedroom, but there’s lots of space in the yard for tents.

    That’s a noble and generous offer, and we appreciate it. But I am sure that every American mom and dad will be proud to have their little boy or girl grow up to serve their time in Iraq.

    Meanwhile, we’ll stock up on yellow ribbon.

  34. 34.

    Jay C

    February 28, 2008 at 9:42 am

    Krista: “roshambo”?

    Can you translate that out of Canadian, please?

  35. 35.

    ThymeZone

    February 28, 2008 at 9:43 am

    And how the hell else is he going to keep the U.S. in Iraq for 100 years?

    I think that frequent references to Barack Hussein Obama, plus magnetic car decals depicting Obama in his African garb, are all the reminder it will take to remind Americans of the alternative … surrender.

    Never surrender. Without doubt, the absolutely right campaign slogan for our time. McCain is a shoe-in right now.

  36. 36.

    ThymeZone

    February 28, 2008 at 9:44 am

    Shall I put on the coffee

    Will we get Canadian Bacon for breakfast?

    I’m on the way …..

  37. 37.

    Cassidy

    February 28, 2008 at 9:48 am

    But to forcibly conscript them into a poorly executed war of choice—a war that the vast majority of them likely think was the ultimate exercise in asshattery? I personally don’t think that is at all fair.

    Completely not what was said. Compulsory public service, i. e. volunteering at shelters, cleaning up trash on highways, joining the Peace Corp, etc., is not the same as consciption into military service. Requiring young adults to give back to their community is a completely different concept.

    I am not a fan of conscription. It’s a matter of survival.

  38. 38.

    Punchy

    February 28, 2008 at 9:54 am

    Krista: “roshambo”?

    Can you translate that out of Canadian, please?

    Jay — it translates to American as “roshambo”.

    (Rock, paper, scissors?)

  39. 39.

    chopper

    February 28, 2008 at 9:55 am

    Krista: “roshambo”?

    Can you translate that out of Canadian, please?

    first I kick you in the nuts as hard as I can, then you kick me in the nuts as hard as you can…

  40. 40.

    ThymeZone

    February 28, 2008 at 9:55 am

    Compulsory public service

    It works well for the Mormons. That’s why I was rooting for Mitt Romney.

  41. 41.

    Buck

    February 28, 2008 at 9:56 am

    Aren’t “compulsory” and “voluntary” two different things?

  42. 42.

    ThymeZone

    February 28, 2008 at 9:56 am

    first I kick you in the nuts as hard as I can, then you kick me in the nuts as hard as you can…

    Oh, here in Arizona we call that game “Cassidy.”

  43. 43.

    canuckistani

    February 28, 2008 at 9:58 am

    If I convert to Islam, I can gay-marry a whole bunch of you to get you Canadian citizenship. My fees are reasonable and consummation is definitely not required. I’m also looking for waiters for abortion and dope parties if you need work.

    But I suspect the food is better at Krista’s.

  44. 44.

    ThymeZone

    February 28, 2008 at 10:00 am

    I can gay-marry a whole bunch of you to get you Canadian citizenship

    If you could send me a picture …..

  45. 45.

    Face

    February 28, 2008 at 10:00 am

    Compulsory public service, i. e. volunteering at shelters, cleaning up trash on highways, joining the Peace Corp, etc., is not the same as consciption into military service.

    Make it a part of high-school graduation. 20 hours of community service in addition to whatever other requirements are necessary. I have no prob with dat.

    I think we’d have a much cleaner enviro if we forced some of the millions incarcerated to pick up trash, plant trees, protect the rhinos, wash my car, and bounce all the frat boys out of my favorite bar.

  46. 46.

    ThymeZone

    February 28, 2008 at 10:01 am

    Oooh … Bush press conference starting.

    Our leader speaks. Gotta listen.

  47. 47.

    ThymeZone

    February 28, 2008 at 10:02 am

    Make it a part of high-school graduation. 20 hours of community detox

    Just trying to help.

  48. 48.

    ThymeZone

    February 28, 2008 at 10:07 am

    Here’s Bush. Wow, I just never dreamed when I was a kid that someday Alfred E. Newman would be president.

  49. 49.

    srv

    February 28, 2008 at 10:09 am

    1) Isn’t the bedrock of liberal thought the “community” or social betterment?

    Ask one of our founders about involuntary indentured servitude and get back to us with that.

    2) Is it illogical to ask young adults to give back to a community that is essentially paying for their various education levels?

    No, it is not illogical to expect them to return the favor for something the majority of them had no choice in.

  50. 50.

    ThymeZone

    February 28, 2008 at 10:13 am

    Ask one of our founders about involuntary indentured servitude and get back to us with that.

    Still taking those Dumb Pills, are ya?

    Glad to see you got the titer just about right. Steady as she goes, lad.

  51. 51.

    Cassidy

    February 28, 2008 at 10:13 am

    involuntary indentured servitude

    Comparing community service to indentured service…interesting. What other tidbits of hyperbole do you have for us?

    Make it a part of high-school graduation. 20 hours of community service in addition to whatever other requirements are necessary. I have no prob with dat.

    Was thinking more like 500 to graduate college, but the specifics are debatable. Either way, as stated earlier, we’d probably have a much nicer and cleaner society if we were made to take ownership of it.

  52. 52.

    ThymeZone

    February 28, 2008 at 10:16 am

    we’d probably have a much nicer and cleaner society if we were made to take ownership of it. could get the crazy sociopathic stupid fuck Republicans out of government

    It think we are almost in agreement, it’s just the details we need to work on.

  53. 53.

    Dennis - SGMM

    February 28, 2008 at 10:20 am

    I sure do remember the draft. It ended the war in Vietnam. Anyone who spent any time there (I spent a year) quickly realized that we could not “win” short of killing nearly everyone. When the majority (Those not able to finagle their way out of it) finally realized that they, or their sons, might have their asses shot clean off in an endless war to support a corrupt and unpopular government in a country that hadn’t attacked us (Sound familiar?) it tended to clear their vision about diplomacy through ordnance.

  54. 54.

    ThymeZone

    February 28, 2008 at 10:22 am

    quickly realized that we could not “win” short of killing nearly everyone

    Yes, what some of us called the Nixon-Kissinger Doctrine.

    Or, Peace With Honor, if you prefer.

  55. 55.

    Krista

    February 28, 2008 at 10:25 am

    Make it a part of high-school graduation. 20 hours of community service in addition to whatever other requirements are necessary. I have no prob with dat.

    Was thinking more like 500 to graduate college, but the specifics are debatable. Either way, as stated earlier, we’d probably have a much nicer and cleaner society if we were made to take ownership of it.

    Hm. That’d be 15 hours a month for the average 8-month school year, over a 4-year undergrad. Four hours a week. It doesn’t sound like much, but if the student is also working to pay their way through college, that might be a bit much, especially during exam/term paper time.

    Overall, however, the idea is sound.

    As well, I have to ask: why do you refer to it as “graduating college”? Shouldn’t it be “graduating from college”? I’ve seen the former usage often, and it just strikes me as being poor grammar. Am I incorrect, or is this considered correct usage where you are?

  56. 56.

    ThymeZone

    February 28, 2008 at 10:31 am

    Shouldn’t it be “graduating from college”? I’ve seen the former usage often, and it just strikes me as being poor grammar. Am I incorrect, or is this considered correct usage where you are?

    Yes, and no.

    SA2SQ.

  57. 57.

    srv

    February 28, 2008 at 10:33 am

    Still taking those Dumb Pills, are ya?

    Hey, if you can’t accept the founders thought it was relative, take it up with them.

    You and Cassidy are obviously better because your philosophy about a new form of servitude is unbigoted except for age.

    Comparing community service to indentured service…interesting. What other tidbits of hyperbole do you have for us?

    Obviously, you have a truthy interpretation of what compulsory means. Was that educated or beaten into you?

  58. 58.

    Cassidy

    February 28, 2008 at 10:46 am

    Hm. That’d be 15 hours a month for the average 8-month school year, over a 4-year undergrad. Four hours a week. It doesn’t sound like much, but if the student is also working to pay their way through college, that might be a bit much, especially during exam/term paper time.

    Just my own thoughts really. I’m not a policy-maker by any stretch, and my biases towards the military are well known. Overall, I’d just like to see more community involvement from those who benefit.

    I won’t say it’s correct grammar, but it is largely used in that manner.

    You and Cassidy are obviously better because your philosophy about a new form of servitude is unbigoted except for age.

    So we’ll mark SRV down for the “I’m too good to pick up trash, but please give me my Pell Grant” crowd. Anyone else?

  59. 59.

    srv

    February 28, 2008 at 10:49 am

    Hey, if you can’t accept the founders thought it was relative, take it up with them.

    Not to besmirch all founders. The ones who were important obviously had issues. The ones who were just a vote, not so much.

    But not important, as neither ppGaz or Cassidy get nuance.

  60. 60.

    Cassidy

    February 28, 2008 at 10:49 am

    Overall, I’d just like to see more community involvement from those who benefit.

    To expand further. As a somewhat libertarian leaning person, I’d like to see less Federal involvement in everyday life. So while this is assuming a Federal Law of some sort, I figure that if the majority of people become more active within their communities, and state level functions, because of it, eventually the need for a Federal mandate will go away in favor of a public willingness to be involved in community level volunteerism.

  61. 61.

    Cassidy

    February 28, 2008 at 10:52 am

    founders

    Inigo Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

  62. 62.

    ThymeZone

    February 28, 2008 at 11:02 am

    if you can’t accept the founders thought it was relative

    Really, I think for an eighth grader, you are doing really well.

    Keep pluggin away, kid.

  63. 63.

    ThymeZone

    February 28, 2008 at 11:03 am

    eventually the need for a Federal mandate will go away in favor of a public willingness to be involved in community level volunteerism

    OMFG, Cassidy invents social engineering.

    I mean, “libertarian” social engineering.

    Brilliant. Kind of a hybrid thing. I see a great future for it.

  64. 64.

    srv

    February 28, 2008 at 11:09 am

    So we’ll mark SRV down for the “I’m too good to pick up trash, but please give me my Pell Grant” crowd. Anyone else?

    Thanks for proving my point. Service to country doesn’t build real character or serve the public interest. I think I’ll play with someone else now.

  65. 65.

    Face

    February 28, 2008 at 11:15 am

    Was thinking more like 500 to graduate college, but the specifics are debatable. Either way, as stated earlier, we’d probably have a much nicer and cleaner society if we were made to take ownership of it.

    500 is too much. I hate to say it, but you would be hard pressed to find 500 hours of community service to be done, if it was each student, times about 20,000 students? That’s ten million hours of service in four years, ongoing, in one town.

    Plus, most go to college in a town other than the one they grow up in. So if it’s part of high school, it’ll benny the actual town in which they were raised.

  66. 66.

    Punchy

    February 28, 2008 at 11:20 am

    Service to country doesn’t build real character or serve the public interest

    Uh….what? I suppose assisting Grandma across a busy intersection doesn’t help the elderly, either, eh?

  67. 67.

    tBone

    February 28, 2008 at 11:21 am

    Thanks for proving my point. Service to country doesn’t build real character or serve the public interest.

    Exactly. You know who else had compulsory national service? The Nazis.

    One minute our youth will be planting flowers in public parks, the next they’ll be herding Jews into the ovens. But I guess you liberal fascists have no problem with that.

  68. 68.

    srv

    February 28, 2008 at 11:38 am

    Uh….what? I suppose assisting Grandma across a busy intersection doesn’t help the elderly, either, eh?

    Ah, when ‘someone must think for the children’ doesn’t work, move the goalposts to ‘someone must think for grandma’.

    If you can’t indoctrinate kids in 12 grades into proper servitude, you think putting them in Iraq or Botswana is going to do the trick?

    Will there ever be a day where people figure out that terms like ‘Service to country’ and ‘National Security’ don’t mean what they think it means? Probably not, given how many people conflate the old status quo repackaged with ‘Change’.

  69. 69.

    srv

    February 28, 2008 at 11:53 am

    Really, I think for an eighth grader, you are doing really well.

    I try to keep it down to your grade level, but you make it hard. Most eight graders today know what the Original Sin is, the conflict in the birthing of the nation, and who thought what.

    I realize you’re too old to have learned any of that in your schooling, but as they say, you’re never too old to learn.

  70. 70.

    Jake

    February 28, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    Time out. What happened to the chart?
    Or does IE suck harder than I thought?

  71. 71.

    Cassidy

    February 28, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    Service to country doesn’t build real character or serve the public interest.

    And now we see the disconnect between what is being said and your selfish, tiny little mind. I have not mentioned “service to country”. I could care less if you serve your country. I would imagine someone of your lack of character couldn’t serve your country.

    I’ve been talking about giving back to your community.

  72. 72.

    srv

    February 28, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    And now we see the disconnect between what is being said and your selfish, tiny little mind. I have not mentioned “service to country”.

    No? A “draft wouldn’t be such a bad thing”, and compulsory “public service”, “Federal mandates” and Peace Corps (a federal program) were not mentioned. I know many of your ilk only think of some of those things as service to country, but that doesn’t make it so.

    You make my point about character again. You can’t help yourself. What you didn’t learn as a youth, you haven’t learned as an adult.

  73. 73.

    Tsulagi

    February 28, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Powerpoint doesn’t lie. In the hands of a true believer chosen by Jesus, God speaks through those slides. That you’re not awed by the chart above simply proves you’re not among the chosen ones so you doubt His word. Known truth.

    I particularly like the chart immediately preceding the one above: Iraqi Security Forces Capabilities. Look at the number of Level 1 battalions. Pretty static trend line there, General. Even with new tuning of the Transition Readiness Assessment reports no longer shared with Congress. As with the previous annual State Dept. Global Terrorism report, so much good news and success those reports are simply no longer needed by Congress. Wouldn’t want to keep them from crafting their sternly worded resolutions.

    But not to worry, even with the optimistic number of Level 1 ISF battalions who serve at their pleasure remaining static, the next chart showing a rapid transition in mission to kicking back watching Iraqis tend the flowers just naturally makes sense. Military geniuses Kristol and Hannity confirm. Don’t need any more than that.

    Iraq: World’s largest dog and pony show for our valiant patriot warrior cheetovores. No cost is too great for that.

  74. 74.

    Cassidy

    February 28, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    No? A “draft wouldn’t be such a bad thing”, and compulsory “public service”, “Federal mandates” and Peace Corps (a federal program) were not mentioned. I know many of your ilk only think of some of those things as service to country, but that doesn’t make it so.

    You make my point about character again. You can’t help yourself. What you didn’t learn as a youth, you haven’t learned as an adult.

    You’re cherrypicking.

  75. 75.

    ThymeZone

    February 28, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    I try to keep it down to your grade level

    Try writing a complete sentence once in a while, that would be refreshing.

  76. 76.

    Reverend Spooner

    February 28, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    quickly realized that we could not “win” short of killing nearly everyone

    It would’ve worked, too, if we hadn’t stopped. Just ask the wingnuts, that’s the whole basis of their Vietnam “stab in the back” theory.

    Did any of the Paris peace talks take place at Versailles? The Godwinesque historical parallel would be downright creepy, if that were so.

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

Recent Comments

  • lowtechcyclist on Take the Fucking Win (Apr 15, 2024 @ 3:33pm)
  • WaterGirl on Henry Would Like His Lunch Right Now, Please (Open Thread) (Apr 15, 2024 @ 3:33pm)
  • smith on Henry Would Like His Lunch Right Now, Please (Open Thread) (Apr 15, 2024 @ 3:32pm)
  • zhena gogolia on Henry Would Like His Lunch Right Now, Please (Open Thread) (Apr 15, 2024 @ 3:31pm)
  • Ruckus on Henry Would Like His Lunch Right Now, Please (Open Thread) (Apr 15, 2024 @ 3:31pm)

🎈Keep Balloon Juice Ad Free

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year
View by Past Author

Balloon Juice Meetups!

All Meetups
Talk of Meetups – Meetup Planning
Proposed BJ meetups list from frosty

Fundraising 2023-24

Wis*Dems Supreme Court + SD-8
Virginia House Races
Four Directions – Montana
Worker Power AZ
Four Directions – Arizona
Four Directions – Nevada

Featuring

Medium Cool
Artists in Our Midst
Authors in Our Midst
Positive Climate News
War in Ukraine
Cole’s “Stories from the Road”
Classified Documents Primer

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Submit Photos to On the Road
Balloon Juice Mailing List Signup
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Links)
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Posts)

Fix Nyms with Apostrophes

Balloon Juice for Ukraine

Donate

Twitter / Spoutible

Balloon Juice (Spoutible)
WaterGirl (Spoutible)
TaMara (Spoutible)
John Cole
DougJ (aka NYT Pitchbot)
Betty Cracker
Tom Levenson
David Anderson
Major Major Major Major
ActualCitizensUnited

Political Action 2024

Postcard Writing Information

Balloon Juice for Four Directions AZ

Donate

Balloon Juice for Four Directions NV

Donate

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • YouTube
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2024 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!