Remember the set of ludicrous charts from the Petraeus testimony, in particular this one that Kevin Drum mocked:
More Friedman Units to Provide a Clear-Eyed View
Look closely at the chart, and then remember Kevin’s sage words:
It looks like some kind of timeline for withdrawal, but all it actually says is that we’ll withdraw five brigades by next July, something we already know is driven not by strategic considerations but by operational realities, and that eventually — someday — we’ll draw down to five brigades. Could be tomorrow, could be ten years from now, but hey — the slide shows troops levels going down, and that’s the graphic that counts.
And the target date for deciding whether the actual date is tomorrow or 2017? March of 2008, exactly six months from now. Sometimes these guys make Atrios’s job too easy.
The chart actually states that the decision will be made around March 8th, which is next week. And look what appears today in the NY Times:
The commander of American forces in the Middle East says he will endorse a brief pause in troop reductions from Iraq this summer, but then will seek a resumption of withdrawals to ease stress on the overall military and allow him to balance deployments across the volatile region.
Those comments by Adm. William J. Fallon, leader of the military’s Central Command, added to indications that American troop levels in Iraq would hold at about 140,000, at least temporarily, after the departure by July of five additional combat brigades ordered to Iraq last year by President Bush.
But Admiral Fallon, in an interview on Tuesday at his headquarters at MacDill Air Force Base here, made clear his appraisal that the halt in reductions should be temporary — and brief — just long enough to allow “all the dust to settle” and to provide an opportunity for “a clear-eyed view” of the way ahead.
Operation Dump This Mess On The Next Administration needs some more Friedman Units.
Buck
Love it!
jake
I still can’t look at The Pet Raeus chart without thinking of this one.
I also can’t help but think “overwatch” is synonymous with “reacharound.”
Maybe I think too much.
TenguPhule
Gen. Betrayus proceeds like clockwork.
cd6
I enjoy “tactical overwatch” as much as the next guy, but I think that they really went overboard on the “strategical overwatch” in this season.
Dennis - SGMM
Of course, the additional brigades added to the Army by Donald Rumsfeld, along with those added by current SecDef Robert Gates will mean that the Army can maintain that troop strength in Iraq without having to send a troop there three, four or even five times in a row. Not to mention that the time between deployments has allowed the troops to spend time with their families, retrain and re-equip. The farsighted Sec’s also have relieved the strain on the National Guard. Without those added brigades guardsmen would have had to spend years away from their civilian jobs and their loved ones.
/snark
TenguPhule
It’s like watching a long slow motion charge of the Light Brigade with about 2000 times more people.
Zuzu
Wow wow wow.
Good catch.
Really really good catch.
The Grand Panjandrum
But the Surge is working:
OK. Not the best example. This is good news:
That sure told’em!
I’m not sure we can take much more this success.
Dennis - SGMM
Donald Rumsfeld, 2003: “It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months,” he said, speaking at the American air base at Aviano, in northern Italy.
John McCain, 2008: At a town hall meeting in New Hampshire, a crowd member asked McCain about a Bush statement that troops could stay in Iraq for 50 years.
“Maybe 100,” McCain replied.
Tax Analyst
Break out the hats & hooters! I’m gonna ride my pony all the way to Eye-rack to get me a clear-eyed view of all teh sellybration & candy & flowers.
Yup, I’ll be over-watchin’ the whole spectickle.
Does the bullshit EVER stop with these guys? Yeah, that’s purely rhetorical – by now we know all too well that it doesn’t.
Good call, John
srv
In case you aren’t angry enough, Wired has some new photos of Bushism at its best in Abu Ghraib.
I’m sure Jonah can’t get enough of it.
DrDave
How many of you are old enough to remember the draft?
How many are young enough to be drafted? Or have kids old enough to be drafted?
Bush does not believe in military conscription–because God knows, he–and Cheney and most of the other hypocritical douche bags who got us into Iraq–did everything in their power to stay out of Southeast Asia, but has anyone asked McCain how he would man the military to stay in the Middle East at or above current troop levels for the next 5, 10, 50, 100 years?
I’m not saying….I’m just saying.
cleek
hey, i know that chart!
Cassidy
Maybe a draft wouldn’t be such a bad thing. Not so much for iraq, but a little bit of public service might be good for most of the the younger generations.
Reverend Spooner
As long as you had the option for non-military civil service, I wouldn’t have a problem with this. I’d also support Smedley Butler’s idea of a “war tax” that reduced the salary of every American to the level of the lowest soldier in the combat zone, for the duration of the conflict. (Assuming they made more than the privates, anyway.) If we did that, either a) we’d never fight another war of aggression, or b) privates would make $100,000 a year.
Cassidy
I just believe in community service, whether it be volunteering, Peace Corp., anything that requires young adults to give something back to the community.
DrDave
Charlie Rangel has been saying this–and proposing it as legislation–for years. And I don’t necessarily disagree. Rangel’s two valid points are that (1) national service breeds patriotism because those who serve, civilly or militarily, feel that they have a vested interest in the nation and (2) the People would be more careful about allowing our leaders to [pick an adjective] haphazardly/carelessly/recklessly take the nation to war if THEIR kids might be the ones sent to the front.
Wilfred
Then support Obama; National Service is a central theme of this campaign.
jake
(3) It would make the Brown Squirts squeal like stuck pigs.
The specter of a draft, by the way, is likely part of the reason for the chorus of “Ew, yuck, McCane!” from the fRightened Kneepadists. I know J.M. wasn’t drafted but he grew up in that culture. And how the hell else is he going to keep the U.S. in Iraq for 100 years?
srv
Because the bedrock of the american experiment is service to the state and not vice-versa. There’s no downside to indoctrinating everyone into that idea.
Cassidy
Allready did. Voted in the Florida Primary.
Something to bear in mind re: McCain and draft. McCain is not a draftee. “Career” Servicemen, of that time period, could barely tolerate draftees for multiple reasons. So while logically, a draft is the easy answer to maintain a long and lengthy occupation, the question is whether McCain has the same visceral distaste and could he get past that?
DrDave
By making Bush’s tax cuts permanent, of course.
cleek
ask not what your country can do for you. E pluribus enum.
cleek
“enum” ?
quick, spot the programmer!
“unum”, of course.
Dork
There’s no way they lower the troop numbers in July, John. If Iraq reverses in violence just months before the elections, they’re toast.
And please don’t tell me that it has to happen, via some mandatory deployment this or that. They don’t give a fuck about the troops, only their politics.
We’ll have 160K troops in Iraq until the 3rd week of October. Then, Bush’ll declare a huge troop withdrawl and shower McCain with credit for it. This shit is too easy.
SteveinSC
The violence that was Iraq a year or so has somehow gotten conflated with the invasion itself, and the surge somehow our victory in that war. Yes, the sectarian violence is down (not because of the surge), but the self-evident centrigual forces are there. It is all in suspension waiting for us to leave. Nothing has happened to cement the country together. Just factions like Yugoslavia, waiting for Tito to die. Each arming themselves and waiting. Oddly enough, now is the time to force the adminstration to start the withdrawal. Victory in Eye-rak!!!! Victory!!! Thank you Jesus, thank you! Then get the fuck out. I for one would be happy to give the fascists their victory party to see this done.
Dork
Speaking of several more Friedman Units…in a development that involves cronyism, incompetence, ridiculous expectations, and Lou Dobbs’ head exploding….
Dennis - SGMM
Remember the “Anbar Awakening”? Bushco and the Shiites have managed to mishandle it into
Sunni Forces Losing Patience With U.S.
The opening graf:
This is good news for John McCain.
Cassidy
I am assuming you’re being sarcastic, so forgive me if I’m wrong.
1) Isn’t the bedrock of liberal thought the “community” or social betterment?
2) Is it illogical to ask young adults to give back to a community that is essentially paying for their various education levels?
Krista
Shall I put on the coffee and go get some spare blankets and pillows, then? You’ll have to roshambo each other for the spare bedroom, but there’s lots of space in the yard for tents. :)
Punchy
From Dork’s link:
Crunch those numbers: they will take THREE YEARS to “fence” 100 miles. That means, with simple math, they will “fence” exactly 146 meters a day. 18 meters an hour. For a computerized fence.
Boeing is sandbagging for the Mother of All Extended Contracts.
Krista
To ask them to give back to their community? That’s not illogical in the least. I think it’s something that should be encouraged in all youth and adults, be it at the community level or a national level.
But to forcibly conscript them into a poorly executed war of choice — a war that the vast majority of them likely think was the ultimate exercise in asshattery? I personally don’t think that is at all fair.
ThymeZone
That’s a noble and generous offer, and we appreciate it. But I am sure that every American mom and dad will be proud to have their little boy or girl grow up to serve their time in Iraq.
Meanwhile, we’ll stock up on yellow ribbon.
Jay C
Krista: “roshambo”?
Can you translate that out of Canadian, please?
ThymeZone
I think that frequent references to Barack Hussein Obama, plus magnetic car decals depicting Obama in his African garb, are all the reminder it will take to remind Americans of the alternative … surrender.
Never surrender. Without doubt, the absolutely right campaign slogan for our time. McCain is a shoe-in right now.
ThymeZone
Will we get Canadian Bacon for breakfast?
I’m on the way …..
Cassidy
Completely not what was said. Compulsory public service, i. e. volunteering at shelters, cleaning up trash on highways, joining the Peace Corp, etc., is not the same as consciption into military service. Requiring young adults to give back to their community is a completely different concept.
I am not a fan of conscription. It’s a matter of survival.
Punchy
Jay — it translates to American as “roshambo”.
(Rock, paper, scissors?)
chopper
first I kick you in the nuts as hard as I can, then you kick me in the nuts as hard as you can…
ThymeZone
It works well for the Mormons. That’s why I was rooting for Mitt Romney.
Buck
Aren’t “compulsory” and “voluntary” two different things?
ThymeZone
Oh, here in Arizona we call that game “Cassidy.”
canuckistani
If I convert to Islam, I can gay-marry a whole bunch of you to get you Canadian citizenship. My fees are reasonable and consummation is definitely not required. I’m also looking for waiters for abortion and dope parties if you need work.
But I suspect the food is better at Krista’s.
ThymeZone
If you could send me a picture …..
Face
Make it a part of high-school graduation. 20 hours of community service in addition to whatever other requirements are necessary. I have no prob with dat.
I think we’d have a much cleaner enviro if we forced some of the millions incarcerated to pick up trash, plant trees, protect the rhinos, wash my car, and bounce all the frat boys out of my favorite bar.
ThymeZone
Oooh … Bush press conference starting.
Our leader speaks. Gotta listen.
ThymeZone
Just trying to help.
ThymeZone
Here’s Bush. Wow, I just never dreamed when I was a kid that someday Alfred E. Newman would be president.
srv
Ask one of our founders about involuntary indentured servitude and get back to us with that.
No, it is not illogical to expect them to return the favor for something the majority of them had no choice in.
ThymeZone
Still taking those Dumb Pills, are ya?
Glad to see you got the titer just about right. Steady as she goes, lad.
Cassidy
Comparing community service to indentured service…interesting. What other tidbits of hyperbole do you have for us?
Was thinking more like 500 to graduate college, but the specifics are debatable. Either way, as stated earlier, we’d probably have a much nicer and cleaner society if we were made to take ownership of it.
ThymeZone
It think we are almost in agreement, it’s just the details we need to work on.
Dennis - SGMM
I sure do remember the draft. It ended the war in Vietnam. Anyone who spent any time there (I spent a year) quickly realized that we could not “win” short of killing nearly everyone. When the majority (Those not able to finagle their way out of it) finally realized that they, or their sons, might have their asses shot clean off in an endless war to support a corrupt and unpopular government in a country that hadn’t attacked us (Sound familiar?) it tended to clear their vision about diplomacy through ordnance.
ThymeZone
Yes, what some of us called the Nixon-Kissinger Doctrine.
Or, Peace With Honor, if you prefer.
Krista
Hm. That’d be 15 hours a month for the average 8-month school year, over a 4-year undergrad. Four hours a week. It doesn’t sound like much, but if the student is also working to pay their way through college, that might be a bit much, especially during exam/term paper time.
Overall, however, the idea is sound.
As well, I have to ask: why do you refer to it as “graduating college”? Shouldn’t it be “graduating from college”? I’ve seen the former usage often, and it just strikes me as being poor grammar. Am I incorrect, or is this considered correct usage where you are?
ThymeZone
Yes, and no.
SA2SQ.
srv
Hey, if you can’t accept the founders thought it was relative, take it up with them.
You and Cassidy are obviously better because your philosophy about a new form of servitude is unbigoted except for age.
Obviously, you have a truthy interpretation of what compulsory means. Was that educated or beaten into you?
Cassidy
Just my own thoughts really. I’m not a policy-maker by any stretch, and my biases towards the military are well known. Overall, I’d just like to see more community involvement from those who benefit.
I won’t say it’s correct grammar, but it is largely used in that manner.
So we’ll mark SRV down for the “I’m too good to pick up trash, but please give me my Pell Grant” crowd. Anyone else?
srv
Not to besmirch all founders. The ones who were important obviously had issues. The ones who were just a vote, not so much.
But not important, as neither ppGaz or Cassidy get nuance.
Cassidy
To expand further. As a somewhat libertarian leaning person, I’d like to see less Federal involvement in everyday life. So while this is assuming a Federal Law of some sort, I figure that if the majority of people become more active within their communities, and state level functions, because of it, eventually the need for a Federal mandate will go away in favor of a public willingness to be involved in community level volunteerism.
Cassidy
ThymeZone
Really, I think for an eighth grader, you are doing really well.
Keep pluggin away, kid.
ThymeZone
OMFG, Cassidy invents social engineering.
I mean, “libertarian” social engineering.
Brilliant. Kind of a hybrid thing. I see a great future for it.
srv
Thanks for proving my point. Service to country doesn’t build real character or serve the public interest. I think I’ll play with someone else now.
Face
500 is too much. I hate to say it, but you would be hard pressed to find 500 hours of community service to be done, if it was each student, times about 20,000 students? That’s ten million hours of service in four years, ongoing, in one town.
Plus, most go to college in a town other than the one they grow up in. So if it’s part of high school, it’ll benny the actual town in which they were raised.
Punchy
Uh….what? I suppose assisting Grandma across a busy intersection doesn’t help the elderly, either, eh?
tBone
Exactly. You know who else had compulsory national service? The Nazis.
One minute our youth will be planting flowers in public parks, the next they’ll be herding Jews into the ovens. But I guess you liberal fascists have no problem with that.
srv
Ah, when ‘someone must think for the children’ doesn’t work, move the goalposts to ‘someone must think for grandma’.
If you can’t indoctrinate kids in 12 grades into proper servitude, you think putting them in Iraq or Botswana is going to do the trick?
Will there ever be a day where people figure out that terms like ‘Service to country’ and ‘National Security’ don’t mean what they think it means? Probably not, given how many people conflate the old status quo repackaged with ‘Change’.
srv
I try to keep it down to your grade level, but you make it hard. Most eight graders today know what the Original Sin is, the conflict in the birthing of the nation, and who thought what.
I realize you’re too old to have learned any of that in your schooling, but as they say, you’re never too old to learn.
Jake
Time out. What happened to the chart?
Or does IE suck harder than I thought?
Cassidy
And now we see the disconnect between what is being said and your selfish, tiny little mind. I have not mentioned “service to country”. I could care less if you serve your country. I would imagine someone of your lack of character couldn’t serve your country.
I’ve been talking about giving back to your community.
srv
No? A “draft wouldn’t be such a bad thing”, and compulsory “public service”, “Federal mandates” and Peace Corps (a federal program) were not mentioned. I know many of your ilk only think of some of those things as service to country, but that doesn’t make it so.
You make my point about character again. You can’t help yourself. What you didn’t learn as a youth, you haven’t learned as an adult.
Tsulagi
Powerpoint doesn’t lie. In the hands of a true believer chosen by Jesus, God speaks through those slides. That you’re not awed by the chart above simply proves you’re not among the chosen ones so you doubt His word. Known truth.
I particularly like the chart immediately preceding the one above: Iraqi Security Forces Capabilities. Look at the number of Level 1 battalions. Pretty static trend line there, General. Even with new tuning of the Transition Readiness Assessment reports no longer shared with Congress. As with the previous annual State Dept. Global Terrorism report, so much good news and success those reports are simply no longer needed by Congress. Wouldn’t want to keep them from crafting their sternly worded resolutions.
But not to worry, even with the optimistic number of Level 1 ISF battalions who serve at their pleasure remaining static, the next chart showing a rapid transition in mission to kicking back watching Iraqis tend the flowers just naturally makes sense. Military geniuses Kristol and Hannity confirm. Don’t need any more than that.
Iraq: World’s largest dog and pony show for our valiant patriot warrior cheetovores. No cost is too great for that.
Cassidy
You’re cherrypicking.
ThymeZone
Try writing a complete sentence once in a while, that would be refreshing.
Reverend Spooner
It would’ve worked, too, if we hadn’t stopped. Just ask the wingnuts, that’s the whole basis of their Vietnam “stab in the back” theory.
Did any of the Paris peace talks take place at Versailles? The Godwinesque historical parallel would be downright creepy, if that were so.