So why haven’t our fiscal conservative Republicans raised hell about these welfare queens:
Just before and immediately after the U.S. launched its invasion of Iraq, Bush administration officials optimistically predicted that Iraqi oil exports would soon finance the reconstruction of the country. That didn’t happen. U.S. taxpayers were stuck with the literally tens of billions of dollars in bills.
Now, five years later and with the price of oil reaching more than $100 a barrel, Iraqi oil exports are generating huge sums — $56.4 billion this year alone, according to the Government Accountability Office. Senator Carl Levin, the Chairman of the Armed Services Committee, says Iraq now has tens of billions of dollars in surplus funds in their banks and in other accounts around the world, including about $30 billion in U.S. banks right now.
But Levin notes that the Iraqis by and large are still not using their money to build new roads, bridges, schools and hospitals. Why should they? Uncle Sam is still doing that for them.
Just as a mental exercise, use this thread to list things we got RIGHT about the Iraq war.
*** Update ***
And just to show that I have not become a total left-wing pinko commie, let me state here and now that Michael Moore is fat.
smiley
Well, the military objective was met pretty easily. Whether it was “right” to do so is another question. Does that count?
SpotWeld
As near as I can tell, the money going to Iraq (and by that I mean the private contractors working in Iraq) is less objectionable to legislators because they can turn to the lobbyists or other corporate reps and say “I just landed you this huge contract, show me/my district some love.”
If Iraq started paying for all this itself, the
feedbackkickback loop would be eliminated.TenguPhule
We made Iran the leading power in the region.
We gave Al Queda and everyone else first hand demonstrations on how to thwart US military hardware and tactics through real life examples.
We destroyed the Myth of unquestioned American military superiority in extended field operations once and for all.
We have given China and Iran moral high ground.
We have given Al Queda the biggest recruiting and funding boost in its history.
We got everything right…for the other side.
Tim F.
What do you mean we, white man?
Zifnab
We did, in fact, invade Iraq, rather than aiming for Iraq and dropping all our artillery on Iran.
While 4000 US Servicemen have died, it is worth noting the over 25,000 servicemen who have not died and were – instead – seriously crippled.
Saddam Hussien was, in fact, the ruling dictator in Iraq and Bagdad was, in fact, the Iraqi capital city. I know plenty of people who would have missed these two questions if they’d been on Jeopardy.
We have been consistently fighting them over there and not over here for the last 5 years. That should count for something.
Iraqi’s WMD stockpile has been reduced to zero (if you don’t count the various high grade munitions and supplies we brought in).
I’m sure somebody, somewhere in that country is getting candy and flowers. Maybe even a pony.
Hey, it got Bush re-elected. Mission Accomplished, right?
Punchy
I think we’ve successfully proven that Iraq’s WMDs were moved into Syria. And Saddam was a meanie.
4tehlulz
>>We got everything right…for the other side.
Thread was won at this comment.
Balconesfault
We screwed the war in Iraq up so much, that it has kept us from invading Syria and Iran, which by the original plan was going to follow pretty rapidly upon our securing Iraq.
cleek
shut your sucking face, uncle sucker
you’re a sock-stuffing bass-licking, uncle stuffer
you’re an uncle sucker, yes it’s true
nobody sucks uncles quite like you
everybody…!
joe
They said that post-war Iraq would serve a model of democracy for the entire Middle East. I think they got that right; people throughout the region have had the opportunity to understand what democracy and liberation could mean for their own countries.
Oh, and domestically, this war was going to bring about a partsian realignment, creating a permanent majority for a generation. They seem to have been right about that, too.
John Cole
My drill sergeant used to say “What do you mean we? You got a mouse in your pocket?”
I mean the US.
Kynn
Well, there was …
…
…
… I got nothin’.
Billy K
I could make a pretty good argument that this was actually a mistaker; that our intent was indeed to drop all our munitions on Iran.
Tim F.
If that’s how we’re gonna roll, then I have to go with invading Afghanistan first. Think of how much more moronic we would look if we’d listened to the neocons and skipped bin Laden altogether.
ThymeZone
Well, a few relevant things a few of us were saying back in 2002 …..
Iraq was not a WMD threat to US, even if weapons existed, which there was no evidence was the case. There was no motive that made sense for threatening the US. Saddam was mainly a thief, and warring with us would not help his thievery, made no sense at all. Additional inspections would settle the question.
Iraq would destabilize if we took Saddam out, and we would not be able to put the toothpaste back in the tube. A sure quagmire. See the British experience there, 75 years ago.
Iraq had nothing to do with 911. Therefore 911 was not justification for war with Iraq.
Creating a quagmire and bogging down in the region would give Muslim radicals just the focus they needed to be more, not less, of a threat to the West.
The cost of the war was greatly underestimated.
If there were no oil in Iraq, we wouldn’t waste our time on the country at all.
“We” got those things right. Alas, “we” weren’t the ones who were listened to. Ergo, the present mess.
Martin
Agreed. And this point can’t be stressed enough. At the military level, this was an unqualified success, as usual. It was at *every other level* that this has been a fuck-up. It’s why the ‘don’t you support our troops?!’ crowd piss me off so badly. Right now we’re just churning up good soldiers, civilians, and money hoping that somehow the political/diplomatic effort will accidentally find success. How they expect an American with an M-16 to get sunni and shiite to get along is beyond me, but if they just stay long enough we win.
I’m starting to get the sense that ‘victory’ is secretly being defined by the wingnuts as ‘all muslims are dead through attrition’.
DBrown
A lot of American defense contractors made $$$ and are moving to Dubai … . Wait, you asked for what went right or just what was right for the US blood merchants?
Stooleo
Well, we showed that H.W. Bush was not a total fucking pussy by not going into Bagdad.
ed
Top Ten Things We Got Right in Iraq
10.
9.
8.
7.
6.
5.
4.
3.
2.
1.
ThymeZone
Especially when our Most Experienced Military/Foreign Policy presidential candidate can’t tell the sunnis from the shiites.
As I assume our current president cannot.
But hey, who is picking nits?
jrg
Because the “fiscal conservative Republicans” are helping the Easter Bunny hunt arctic snipes (a natural predator of elves) at the north pole.
Tsulagi
9/11 changed everything.
cbear
On a related note-
I have a question thats been bugging me for awhile:
If Dougie Feith is the fucking stupidest guy on the face of the earth—what does that make Chimpy?
b. hussein canuckistani
Record profits for Exxon, Gulf-Mobil, Shell… I think it’s Mission Accomplished all along the line.
ThymeZone
The guy who listens to the fucking stupidest guy on earth.
Zifnab
Psh. Whatever. Bush Sr was still a pussy. Clearly you didn’t get the memo. Warmongering can’t fail, it can only be failed. Bush Jr’s flaw wasn’t in invading. It was failing to follow Doug Feith’s instructions to the letter. If we’d just listened to Feith, we’d all be swimming in flowers, candy, and pony presents.
salvage
Killed Saddam and his spawn.
Of course to whack them you had to kill / get killed hundreds of thousands of other people(so far) maim countless more for billions of dollars and who knows what other consequences down the road so while it was right to kill Saddam I’m not sure if that was the right way to do it so it may not count.
ThymeZone
When I hear our government hyping the terrorist thread, I just can’t help thinking of Warren Zevon:
Justin Slotman
SIR! I MEANT THE “ROYAL WE”, SIR!
The Other Steve
You’re right. We should give some credit to Bush.
We did successfully find Iraq on a map. It would have been embarassing if our soldiers had invaded Utah.
cbear
Thanks. Here’s another one:
If we were to breed George W. and Koko the gorilla—would the offspring have greater or lesser communication skills than it’s father?
(sadly, I actually do wonder about these things)
ThymeZone
Sorry, “threat” not “thread.”
Jeff
This was the basis of a great deal of Sen Boxer’s questions to Petraeus and Crocker.
Besides the questions about how ironic it was Ahmadinejad was greeted with kisses and flowers while Bush and Cheney had to sneak in.
Gus
If by we, you mean those of us DFHs who were against the war from the beginning, the answer is everything.
Rick Taylor
Boy that’s a tough one. It’d be easier to come up with a list of words that rhyme with “orange.”
Forging relations with Sunni resistant groups to take out the more extreme terrorists may have been a good idea. If we had to stay, it was probably better than the alternative. Of course it contributes to decentralizing power in Iraq, and the groups we’re empowering today may be killing Americans or fighting the Shiite government tomorrow. Still, with all the bad choices, this was probably the closest thing we’ve come to doing something right I can think of.
Unless you want to be cynical. Then it would have to be the staged event of toppling the statue of Saddam. It didn’t do much for Iraq, but it was a good propoganda coup in the US and allowed Republicans to argue things were going real well in Iraq for a bit longer. You’ve got to hand it to the Bush administration, they’re not good at policy, but photo opportunities for political gain are another matter.
p.a.
I was going to say something snarky about what we got right, but with 30,000 US casualties, 10x more of Iraqis, and $$$ spent counted in the trillions, I think I’ll just STFU and say the only potential good that may come from this is a generational realignment (if the Dems get their act together), and hopefully a new admin. with the balls to investigate and prosecute everyone involved in perpetrating this murderous fraud.
Maybe a little humility added to the national psyche also, but let’s not get unrealistic.
kenga
Again.
Krista
Good drill sergeant, that. Mocking your words AND implying an insult to the size of your manhood — nicely done!
Ugh
well, let’s see. We killed bin Laden and Zawahiri. Oh wait nope.
Well at least we caught the people involved in the anthrax attacks. Err, whoops, didn’t do that either.
Got rid of Saddam’s WMDs? Huh, not that either.
Erm, rolled back Iranian influence? Dang.
Made the U.S. even more popular? No? Shucks.
Davis X. Machina
The sturm-und-drang surrounding going in (2002 mid-terms) and staying in (2004 general) guaranteed a few critical years of GOP dominance, in turn saving the nation from the grim specters of gay marriage and slightly higher top marginal rates of income tax.
Cheap at the price.
protected static
Don’t call me ‘sir,’ I work for a living. Now drop and give me twenty.
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
I suppose ousting a murderous despot doesn’t count to you guys, does it? Liberating 20 million people? Nah, prolly not.
Well, how about this: It led to a Democratic-led Congress. And they’ve done a bang-up job!
Gerald Curl
A fresh coat of paint and some soccer balls can solve all the world’s problems.
jack fate
Why you gotta ask a question you give the answer to? But yeah, he is one fat fuck, amirite?
AkaDad
I say we eliminate all subsidies to oil companies and use that to pay off the debt.
Cyrus
Balconesfault at 12:08 is right. Suppose the world was exactly the same as in the real world until March 2003 but after that, day-to-day stuff went better: Al Qaeda decided to let us have our way with majority-Shiite Iraq, we managed to keep the electricity on, we didn’t disband the Iraqi army or insist on complete and total de-Baathification, Abu Ghraib prisoners weren’t tortured, etc. We would have invaded Syria and Iran just in time for the 2004 election.
Delia
Um, we started the downhill slide of American dominance in world affairs?
I’m sure all this won’t entirely sort itself out for a few years yet, and the 28 percenters will be off in their corner for the rest of their natural lives in full denial. But it looks like the PNAC crowd will find that its true destiny is pretty much the opposite of what it had in mind.
Tsulagi
So, back to this question…
Knew there had to be a good reason. Only needed to check the serious adults at RedState to find a really smart frontpager with the answer…
See, asking Iraq to pay a little more for its own reconstruction clearly is a thinly veiled liberal Democratic plot. Those traitors know if the Iraqis have to pony up their money, they’ll get mad and ask us to leave. Of course while that would benefit our Treasury and military, it would lessen the patriot warriors’ number of opportunities at playing dressup as the serious adults. With lapel pins.
I wonder if RS frontpagers get their drool cups monogrammed so they don’t mix them up with the other guys.
Psycheout
America hasn’t been attacked by terrorists since 9/11, thanks to the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq and George Bush’s steadfast leadership.
Burns you lefties up, doesn’t it?
And remember, we weren’t in Iraq when the terrorists incinerated innocent American civilians in planes and buildings on 9/11.
But keep screaming “no blood for oil” and stamping your feet along with Cindy Sheehan and your Code Pinko friends, if it makes your feel better. Nothing quite like speaking truth to power, is there?
I find it ironic that you’re upset about the new democracy in Iraq making profits from its own oil. I thought the war was all about oil and the evil intentions of Darth Cheney and ChimpyMcHitlerBurton to steal it. They never did, did they? Yet now you seem to be demanding that we seize it (or the profits) for ourselves. Sad, really.
Ed Drone
I’ll answer that by asking a musical question:
Too Much for the Whistle
(To the tune of “Red River Valley”)
Now, it was Ben Franklin who told it, a tale from when he was a boy.
Bright pennies lay there in his pocket, when he spotted a wonderful toy.
A shiny, new whistle – he bought it – but his brothers told him with a laugh,
“You paid far too much for your whistle; you could have had it for half.”
Chorus:
Are we paying too much for our whistle?
It’s the question heard all ‘round the earth.
Are we paying too much for our whistle?
Is it costing us more than it’s worth?
When you see a car ad on your TV, “No interest, and no money down.”
Do you rush right down then and buy one, and drive it all over town,
Where you’re joined by all of those others, in long lines going nowhere?
Then think of the words of Ben Franklin, as you gasp for a breath of clean air.
Repeat Chorus
The president called him “a monster.” the president said, “He’s a threat.”
And, “We’ve got to invade them to save us,” from the weapons we haven’t found yet.
Our forces used “shock and awe” tactics, we rolled over their army with ease,
And took quick control of the oil fields we need to feed our SUVs.
Repeat Chorus
The economy’s deep in the doldrums, the economy’s stuck in a slump.
The president said he could fix it, before we end up in the dump.
So he took all the tax we collected, though all you doubters might scoff,
And gave it away to the wealthy, and it’s up to our kids to pay off.
Repeat Chorus
Copyright ©2003 Bob Clayton & Ed Drone
Psycheout
Well there is that…but, er, “no blood for oil!”
Yeah, but, um, look over there!
Just can’t see the forest for the trees, these folks.
Thread over, Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop wins.
Cernig
If Iraq started paying for itself, all the money would go to Serbia. Apparently Bush is OK with the Iraqis handing massive arms contracts to people who burn US embassies down – the Pentagon approved the latest one, Serbia’s biggest arms deal ever.
Regards, C
Soylent Green
If the murderous despot in question had been occupying, say, the Oval Office, then sacrificing the lives of 4,000 of our troops and maiming 20,000 more and passing the trillion-dollar-cost to our kids and grandkids and great grandkids might have been worth it.
But some dude in Baghdad who did nothing to us? Not so much.
And if the fucker was still in power we would be much better off. Hell, we could have let him have Kuwait and still come out ahead.
b. hussein canuckistani
What about the guys who were going to dismantle the Brooklyn Bridge with wrenches and soldering guns?
John S.
Fixed.
protected static
Don’t forget the guys who had procured battle dress uniforms, load-bearing equipment, and those oh-so-dangerous of all contemporary firearms: paintball guns!
Zifnab
I love how EEEL points to Congressional Poll numbers without asking what they mean. You know, Kim Jong Il has absolutely stellar poll numbers in N.Korea. He must be a great leader, right? And when asked whether they’d like Comcast internet or no internet at all, I’m betting I know what the consensus would be around here. So we must all love Comcast, correct? But why doesn’t EEEL ever mention the 70% disapproval rating on Iraq? What’s that? Because polls have a notorious liberal bias? Ah, it all makes perfect sense to me now.
Horray for logical fallacies!
eponymous
I guess the Anthrax attacks that occurred over several weeks starting on 18 September 2001 don’t really count…
binzinerator
You conveniently forgot about the anthrax attacks that started Sept 18 and killed 5 and infected 17 others, some of them disabled for life. Or maybe you’re just a dumbass.
Are you really that big a dumbass or are you a spoof of a dumbass?
Zifnab
Those letters went to Daschel’s office. One could argue they were being used to combat the terrorist threat.
dbrown
Thank god that at least one right-winger, Psycheout, is posting here. It gets so borrrrrring listening to all the intelligent liberals agree over and over again with each other.
Thanks and keep up the stupid remarks – otherwise I’d have to post more of my same old!
binzinerator
Ed Drone, that was very nice.
That’s about the most succinct and accurate account of Bush’s War I’ve seen.
jack fate
Huh? How often do you have to repeat that before you believe it? Anthrax? Or does that not count because, odds are, it wasn’t perpetrated by an Islamofascist™?
Jesus, and I used to consider you somewhat intelligent and rational.
Non Sequitur?
Your a sad little man. Not even worth the effort.
abiodun
If we got the “military part” right, then why are US troops still dying and losing limbs and eyes in Iraq?
I am tired of this propanganda- “we got the military part right”.
lou
lou
err sorry.
zsa
We got the most important part right. It’s not like we didn’t occupy the right country … Iraq sits atop a large amount of pre-peak oil deposits.
All the rest is just window dressing.
p.a.
Go tell the 10 million+ Iraqi women how much better off they are you ass. When they’re finished with you you’ll be able to hit high notes you never could before.
binzinerator
One murderous despot does nothing to us and is forced from office by gunpoint and swings on the end of a rope in disgrace. The other murderous despot causes the deaths of thousands of our people for his own personal agenda and will retire in wealth and safety while claiming to be another Truman.
If there was any justice, Bush should get at least the same as Saddam got.
binzinerator
Dude. Haven’t you heard? Impeachment is off the table.
jake
So, if I go to Levin’s house, smash the windows, chain saw the walls, take a sledgehammer to the toilets and smear crap all over his counters, can I present him with a bill when I make a half-assed attempt to clean up the mess?
Rick Taylor
Well it would be if that’s what happened. But with over two million refugees after five years of occupation, hundreds of thousands dead, no sign of a stable unified society, a society where kidnappings and brutal murders are common place, where the educated are fleeing, women threatened with violence if they don’t wear proper Islamic dress, and Christian’s persecuted, that’s an extraordinary claim to make. Go read Riverbend‘s blog and then explain to me how she’s been liberated.
If this war had gone the way war supporters had said it would, if it had resulted in the formation of a stable sectarian government after a year or two funded by Iraqi oil that didn’t need any U.S. troops to prop it up and that was a tremendous inspiration to lovers of Democracy everywhere, I’d shut up about politics. I’d be extremely embarrassed about my pessimism going in, and I’d admit I obviously knew nothing. I seriously wonder just what would have had to happen in Iraq, how badly it would have had to go, for those who supported it to admit it was not actually a success.
Medicine Man
Tiger attacks. The absence of tiger attacks since 2001 tells me that Bush’s resolute leadership has protected us from the deadly menace of tiger attacks. Praise Bush!
binzinerator
It works like this: The part of Bush’s War that people say we got right — like the first few weeks of the invasion where everything went according to plan — is known as the “military part”.
Whether the plan was a good idea or legal is beside the point. What matters is that it all worked just like it was supposed to. The US armed forces invaded Iraq and Baghdad fell. As planned. Since that’s called the military part, we got the military part right. Things went as planned. Objectives were met. Statues toppled. Ordinance dropped. Some people blown up. Saddam ran away. Everything was as right as rain.
Of course the following part — the next 5 years of clusterfuck that is undeniably a military disaster — is not the military part. Obviously.
And this is how we got the military part right even though we sure as hell didn’t.
This is a very useful way of looking at things. Consider this: We now can say the Wehrmacht got their military part right too. They successfully invaded Russia. It was a smashing military success as long as you don’t count Stalingrad as a part of it.
Svensker
Yeah, we oughtta be real proud that the biggest most expensive military in the world could whoop some little 3rd world country’s army’s butt. Particularly since that army didn’t feel like taking a bullet for Saddam anyway. So, yeah, wow, does that show what a Big Tough Macho Country We Are! And the Iraqis are so lucky! Bombed, displaced, disappeared, Abu-Grhaib’d, ethnically cleansed, turned into refugees or flaming piles of rubble — thank you, America!
And WTF do you mean, no terrorist attacks since 9/11? Aren’t our soldiers being attacked by “terrorists” every day in Iraq? That’s what I’m told. And over 4000 of them have been killed — more than in 9/11. Considering Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, that seems pretty stupid. The more I listen to the warmonger cheerleaders, the madder I get.
We need Obama to get elected, real bad, since I’ve heard he’s for reconciliation and bringing people together. Cuz my gut right now is to go out and stomp any wingers I see, incarcerate the ones I can’t see and torture the shit out of all of ’em. Every day. Far as I can tell, Obama’s the only thing between me and a whole bunch of felony charges.
Calouste
Well, as long as you mean by “liberated” that you don’t have to wait to be arrested by the secret police and tortured before you meet a violent death, but you can just walk on the street and get blown up by a suicide bomber or shot by Blackwater’s trigger happy goons, I guess you’re right.
Xenos
What, you already forgot the innocent slingshot-wielding youth in Sand Francisco?
Or do we get to blame that one on Nancy Pelosi, as she has sapped our will to resist tigers?
willibro
Michael Moore is not fat. He is big-boned.
OniHanzo
EEEL and Psycheout: The Movie. Just wave around the same stupid rhetoric you’ve used for years like it has a pulse.
How promising do you think McCain is, fellas?
*hysterical laughter*
Tim F.
Don’t look now, but Iraqis are fast growing nostalgic for the living hell of Saddam’s Iraq, and not in the way that I’m nostalgic for Kris Kross. Gradually they are figuring out that torture, rampant crime, skull drillings and random disappearances isn’t much of an improvemen over torture and random disappearances plus electricity and sanitation.
I already know which poll you’re going to reply with. It’s old. If you don’t have anything more relevant then do yourself a favor and go back to picking a nit and taking a victory lap.
OniHanzo
Kris Kross?…..Really?
OriGuy
GrrlScientist over at ScienceBlogs posted this in honor of National Poetry Month. Kipling knew a little something about foreign occupation:
Mesopotamia
They shall not return to us, the resolute, the young,
The eager and whole-hearted whom we gave:
But the men who left them thriftily to die in their own dung,
Shall they come with years and honour to the grave?
They shall not return to us; the strong men coldly slain
In sight of help denied from day to day:
But the men who edged their agonies and chid them in their pain,
Are they too strong and wise to put away?
Our dead shall not return to us while Day and Night divide–
Never while the bars of sunset hold.
But the idle-minded overlings who quibbled while they died,
Shall they thrust for high employments as of old?
Shall we only threaten and be angry for an hour:
When the storm is ended shall we find
How softly but how swiftly they have sidled back to power
By the favour and contrivance of their kind?
Even while they soothe us, while they promise large amends,
Even while they make a show of fear,
Do they call upon their debtors, and take counsel with their friends,
To conform and re-establish each career?
Their lives cannot repay us — their death could not undo —
The shame that they have laid upon our race.
But the slothfulness that wasted and the arrogance that slew,
Shall we leave it unabated in its place?
Delia
One more time:
YOU MEAN CHENEY’S GONE????!!!!
But you’ve seriously miscounted. This liberates a helluva lot more than 20 million people. Billions and billions, as Carl Sagan, used to say.
Psycheout
So “reality based” of Tim F. to compare Saddam Hussein, brutal dictator, with Kris Kross.
But keep it up, Tim. Show us how far out there you really are.
TenguPhule
If you liberate the egg from the frying pan to the fire, does that count as liberation or a waste of eggs?
TenguPhule
Solid Gold Spoof.
Bow your head, EEEL. You are in the presence of a master.
Prospero
Try harder.