Looks like the fact — and, more important, the meme — that the Republicans are doing everything they can to further damage the American economy, in a deliberate attempt to improve their own electoral chances in 2012, might finally be gaining some traction:
E.J. Dionne at the Washingon Post, on “Gridlocking the Lives of the Jobless“:
The economy needs another jolt, but Congress is in gridlock. Democrats, or most of them, realize that their political futures and the well-being of millions of households hang on whether unemployment can be brought down. Yet Republicans have the capacity to block even the smallest steps forward…
__
For the moment, Republicans have no interest in moving the nation’s debate toward investments in job creation because they gain twice over from keeping Washington mired in discussions on the deficit. It’s a brute fact that Republicans benefit if the economy stays sluggish. And despite their role in ballooning the deficit during the Bush years, they will always outbid Democrats on spending cuts….
Kevin Drum, as befits a Mother Jones progressive, is pessimistic:
I wonder if this is ever going to become a serious talking point? It gets batted around now and again by the odd newspaper columnist or blogger, but that’s about it. No serious person in a position of real influence really wants to accuse an entire party of cynically trying to tank the economy, after all.
__
But it would sure make headlines if Obama decided to take up this ball and run with it. He’ll never do it, because it wouldn’t be postpartisan or pragmatic. But Republicans are all set to turn the next 18 months into the World War III of political campaigns, and this would sure be a way of showing them that two can play at that game.
Jonathan Cohn at eventheliberal TNR fact-checks the Republican’s “economic nonsense“:
A lot of us are begging, even pleading, with President Obama to focus more on economic stimulus and less on deficit reduction. But let’s not kid ourselves. President Obama isn’t the obstacle to passing a new jobs program. The Republican Party is…
__
According to the very best evidence we have, the Recovery Act prevented the economic downturn from becoming a full-brown depression or something very close to it. And private sector employment has been growing, albeit in fits and starts. The primary reason employment overall isn’t growing faster is that public sector workforces are shrinking, because low tax revenues are forcing local and state governments to balance their budgets with spending cuts.
__
If the federal government, which has the ability to borrow money, had simply maintained the assistance it provided after the Recovery Act expired, many more people would have jobs. And what would have worked a few months ago would still work today: Extending new assistance to the states would boost employment, by (among other things) keeping teachers, first responders, and plenty of other government workers from losing their positions…
__
It’s about ideological rigidity (government is always bad) and partisan opportunism.
Steve Benen at the Washington Monthly adds context on GOP television mouthpiece Senator “Shakedown” Shelby:
Richard Shelby isn’t just some random television personality. He’s the ranking member of the Senate Banking Committee; he recently killed an important nomination to the Federal Reserve’s Board of Governors; he’s trying to kill accountability and safeguards for Wall Street; and last year, he held several nominees for key military posts hostage until he was paid off in pork for his state.
__
If Americans want to know why Washington isn’t doing more to create jobs, look no further than the confused senior senator from the state of Alabama.
I think “confused” is overly polite; Shelby is simply working to confuse other people, to benefit himself and his co-conspirators in the GOP (Greedy Old Perverts), no matter how badly their actions may damage the rest of us. And we need to keep reminding people why he’s doing it.
(Tony Auth via GoComics.com)
Comrade Kevin
Yes, but, BULLY PULPIT!
Spaghetti Lee
Mr. Boehner, where are the jobs?
Fits on a T-shirt, bumper sticker, etc.
agrippa
People are going to have to take care of themselves.
The political class and the economists do not care; and,if they do care, neither has a clue.
The political class is interested in rewarding their friends and punishing their enemies. The economists position is: “if there is no solution, there is no problem”. people are on their own.
sauve qui peut.
OzoneR
President Obama didn’t put the focus completely on deficit reduction, with the exception of pay freezes and long term deficit reduction plans, until the American people told him to in November.
Neither of Obama’s budgets in 2009 and 2010 had spending cuts, they had spending increases. He attempted at pushing a major infrastructure program in high-speed rail and Republican governors REJECTED it. (How would the New Deal have gone if governors rejected WPA projects?)
And there’s also the wide prevailing idea that public jobs are being cut because of low tax revenue caused by the loss of private sector jobs, which are being cut because of taxes and regulation. The fact that people don’t see that this view is everywhere makes me wonder just how in touch the left is with the public.
Little Boots
oh, fine,Tom and I had a thing, but start new thread, sure, whatever.
WereBear
I have noticed they haven’t done a daaaaaaaaaaaamn thing about jobs.
I imagine some people who don’t have jobs might notice even more; they have the time.
In fact, I thought of a video that would contrast some of the whining, entitled, nasty types who have been supporting Republicans lately, with just a title card: THEY VOTE. Won’t you show up too?
Little Boots
@WereBear:
but if they can just abort all the potential workers then …
no wait, they’re all about the birthin, never mind.
fasteddie9318
I get that it’s not post-partisan, whatever that means, but clearly DC isn’t post-partisan either. But how is it not pragmatic? Is it more pragmatic to let the Republicans use Obama’s economic record like a pinata for the next year and a half than it is to fight back?
@OzoneR:
Is that what the voters told him, or is that what the Village Idiots decided that the voters were telling him? I suspect a lot of voters were just trying to tell him that the economy still sucked and that they were really hurting.
OzoneR
@fasteddie9318:
whether they meant it or not, that’s what the voters told them. The Republicans didn’t mince words, they made it clear they would CUT spending and focus on the deficit if they won, and they made the public believe that was the road to more jobs, if even jobs were a factor. Hell, the Democrats did pretty good in states like California and Nevada, where unemployment is ridiculous high and got killed in states where it was not.
Spending lost them the election, it just so happens too many think spending = bad economy.
gwangung
It’s a common statement on non-lefty blogs.
Either folks are stupid and parrot back whatever the Village Idiots tell them, or people actually think that. Maybe a bit of both.
OzoneR
Anyone who believes this is really not fucking paying attention. The only way it’ll make headlines is if Obama is sending pictures of his penis to interns while he’s taking the ball and running with it.
This fantasy notion that somehow the media is going to fawn over the new progressive fighter Super Obama is so stupid, it makes my head hurt. When was the last time the media fawned over a progressive anybody. it’s not like he hasn’t tried, I’ve seen “More of this please” on the blogs more times than I’ve seen my fingers. It just doesn’t make news.
I mean I know you HAVE to believe that or cynicism and hopelessness will set in, because liberals think without that they have nothing else…but c’mon. You can’t really believe this after seeing the last three years.
fasteddie9318
@gwangung: The commentariat on non-lefty blogs != representative sample of voters. But OzoneR is right, they voted for the cut spending party whether that’s the message they intended to send or not.
OzoneR
@gwangung:
I tend to think it’s more the former, which is why there’s hope, but that hope is going to require the left either destroy the Fox News culture, or emulate it.
Suffern ACE
@fasteddie9318: You might argue, that, say, the voters in Wisconsin weren’t told that Walker planned to use the budget as an excuse to break the unions. You would be correct. However, he did run on stopping the construction of that train. It was a central issue of the campaign. In Wisconsin at least, they said no to the rail. There is no way to play with that.
Litlebritdifrnt
My local RWNJ radio station was screaming “government does not create jobs” today, while completely ignoring the fact that the biggest employer in this area is The Federal Government. (Camp Lejeune is our major employer) These people are insane.
Davis X. Machina
The worse, the better.
The GOP is the last major Leninist parliamentary party in the West.
jwb
@fasteddie9318: Hell, in Wisconsin they evidently voted for a wacko supreme court justice even though they were well warned that it would mean rulings like the one that came down today. So you have to say that people really did knowingly vote for this shit.
WereBear
Who can forget Rush Limbaugh declaring, on the eve of imminent economic meltdown, that he “wants the President to fail.”
In some alternate universe, he did… and Rush looks up to see that not all the flames around his house come from scented candles…
boss bitch
From a very painful article on Romney’s very painful and unfunny visit to a diner:
http://www.slate.com/BLOGS/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/06/14/mitt-romney-vs-diners.aspx
Right. Mr. “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt” is going to create a federal program for people who are unemployed. The guy who said he would repeal ACA is someone you should consider voting for over Obama.
This is what we are dealing with.
Cacti
@jwb:
Then, of course, there’s Michigan, who, were it not for direct government intervention would have lost the State’s most important industry and decided to say thank you by…
Flipping the rest of the country the bird and voting in the party that opposed said intervention.
Steve
@OzoneR: Even a few seconds with the exit polls will show you that the biggest difference between 2008 and 2010 is that senior citizens swung to the GOP by huge margins. For literally every other age group, the shift was constant and minor. And of course the electorate looked more like a midterm year than a presidential year, which always happens, so the seniors not only voted more Republican but showed up in higher numbers.
The #1 reason for Republican victories was the health care bill and the successful Republican message that Democrats slashed Medicare. That’s the empirical reality. Unless seniors are overwhelmingly concerned about the budget deficit and no other demographic cares about it at all, there is simply no way to interpret the 2010 election as a mandate for spending cuts.
OzoneR
I posted this video on my Facebook wall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTzMqm2TwgE&feature=share
and the response was “well, the wars/foreign aid/entitlements also add to the budget deficit, and taxes are too high” even after Reich explained, you know, they not.
If Reich can’t get through to these people, no one can.
OzoneR
@Steve:
It doesn’t matter, they RAN on spending cuts, they made it clear they were going to cut spending, they didn’t hide it, they ran commercials like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqrzrHug–8
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_UpGBi3iec
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiD4iDQD9Iw
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-p8FPMw0co
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIJbhtnO8IU
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iX6v9o9lOs
Either the public voted for Republicans knowing this or being ignorant to it, either way, they sanctioned it.
Omnes Omnibus
@jwb: Nothing personal, but fuck you. An election against a second tier opponent that Prosser should have won in a walk was turned into a stunningly competitive contest. All of this done between February and April. Of course, it means nothing and, as far as you are concerned, Wisconsin is full of rightwing assholes who deserve what they get. Asshole.
jo6pac
0 doesn’t care all he and the staff want is great jobs on the way out. 0 wins the 2nd term to finish off ronnie-ray-gunnes dream. Finish off those dirty, shoeless hippes that brought tricky dick down and those that are of that age group.
jwb
@Omnes Omnibus: Read what I wrote. I didn’t say Wisconsinites got what they deserved; I said that Wisconsinites knowingly voted for a wacko supreme court justice. Given everything that happened in Wisconsin prior to the election, you really can’t claim that anyone who voted the GOP candidate did so not knowing what they were voting for. That’s my only claim: we have a hell of a lot of people who will willingly and knowingly vote for wackos.
Little Boots
omnes is losing his equanimity. this is not a good sign.
OzoneR
@Cacti:
Rick Snyder even got endorsed by UNIONS…but he must have been running against a Conservadem, right?
Oh…wait
ltshinysides
For all the early talk about the shitshow that is the early Repub. primary(and make no mistake, it is a joke), Obama is still toast in the general. By all accounts, the unemployment rate is not going to rebound for quite some time, and he is going to get torched on it. Whatever mouth-breather the GOP nominates will get the full, unquestioning backing of everyone who ever even momentarily bought the “Obama is a Dirty foreigner” meme, as well as a media looking for a dramatic, scandal or recount-ridden election. I would love to be told how I am wrong, but i cannot join in the elation of the clown show that is the Republican Presidential field, as I am terrified that one of the assholes on that stage last night will probably be the next president.
I have been reading this blog for years, and have never commented, but this is bugging me to no end. Is no one else seeing this? I am really not trolling, but i do not see how Obama gets re-elected, which goes against EVERYTHING i have read.
jwb
@Little Boots: I’m sure he’s just upset. Not a good day for Wisconsin. It will take years and years to undo this damage.
Spaghetti Lee
Can I just repeat that there’s few things on the liberal side of politics that I hate more than the “You got what you voted for” meme? It does nothing-nothing-to help stop these teabagger thugs, and it only serves to divide their opponents.
Little Boots
@jwb:
it really will. we are not this state. we really are not. it’s pathetic what we’ve become.
jl
GOP officials have stated that that defeating Obama is their top priority. I think that is one thing, maybe the only thing, where we can take them at their word.
So, this cynical GOP strategy is something bloggers have to snoop out, and agonize about there there is sufficient evidence, and if there is reasonable doubt?
It would be nice if some more focus would be put on how nonsensical the GOP, and GOP economists’ arguments are.
We are supposed to believe that uncertainty and regulation of financial markets, and being mean to rich people and CEOs will throw the economy into decades long stagnation?
How do you even measure ‘uncertainty’ and ‘regulation’? Intuitively, things like the Cuban Missile crisis, Soviet expansion attempts like invasion of Afghanistan, break up of the Soviet Union should have killed the market for years.
Regulations! Regulations! Oppressive new laws? Medicare, environmental regulation (which started ramping up under Nixon), did they kill the economy for decade?
Being mean to rich people? How about the Reagan and Clinton tax increases? How about arrests and convictions after previous financial crises, even the Savings and Loan Crisis under Reagan and Bush I? They threw the economy into a permanent 1939.
Maybe if one of the GOP economists could propose how to measure this horrible uncertainty and regulation, rather than just blowing smoke, we might make it into some kind of empirical question. But they haven’t.
OzoneR
@Spaghetti Lee:
no it doesn’t, but it acknowledges reality.
jwb
@ltshinysides: Lot of time still to go, and the debt ceiling clusterfuck to get through this summer. I really wouldn’t put much stock in any handicapping until after that plays out because it almost certainly will be a completely different game after that.
ppcli
@OzoneR:
Sadly, yes. The Republicans have mastered the strategy of saying something over and over, with ruthless message discipline, until it becomes accepted dogma. It’s true that against stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain; and stupidity channeled by Luntz-crafted slogans is more formidable still. Consider:
Sez Cohn:
That’s certainly what I believe: Stimulus should have been bigger, as Krugman said, but things would have been incalculably worse without it. My economist friends at the U, even the Republican ones, are in various shades of agreement about that. (One of them was asked by the Bush admin to be part of their budget team – not a lefty by any means.) And yet, listening to [communist-socialist! Radio Dnieper!] NPR when they had Paul Diamond on, I hear the interviewer say (approximately – from memory) “but it’s accepted wisdom that the stimulus was a failure”.
[In defence of the
talking headdisembodied voice, he may not have been asserting conventional wisdom but rather setting up Diamond with an easy pitch over the plate. The point is not that disembodied voice man was a blockhead, since he may not have been, but rather that the CW is sufficiently entrenched that he could say that and he could count on people nodding along.]OzoneR
@ltshinysides: The unemployment rate is 9.1% and he STILL beats them all. It will not be 9.1% next November, by every account it will be lower. CEO’s admitted today they will ramp up hiring later this year. Some states are already coming out of the budget crunches.
The economy won’t be booming next year, but it will be better than it is today, just like it is better now than it was last year at this time.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@jo6pac: Want to translate that to English, Jo? Or am I feeding a quasi-literate paid troll? If so, you are a testament to what the average-and-above-intelligence crowd is up against. It gives me hope. We need to embarrass your asses in terms that even YOU dumb fuckers can understand. This is where the Democratic Party fails. It seems so easy to everyone else.
Steve
@Spaghetti Lee: Particularly when it’s a 51-49 election. The logic goes: Republicans are crazy and unacceptable, so unless the election is 100-0 we’re doomed as a nation cause we have too many stupid people. Then you have the elections where the people who rely on social programs vote overwhelmingly for the Dems, they get outvoted by the teabaggers, and the meme is like “too bad your Medicaid got cut, maybe you should have thought about that when you elected a Republican.” Sigh.
jl
I hate to say it, but Obama seems to be spouting nonsense too, in order to justify his own bizarre political passivity.
I heard the Turkish barbarian, Cenk Uygur on TYT, report some quotes from recent meetings between Obama and Congressional leaders. Reportedly Obama said that he had to be careful about what he said for fear of how the markets would react.
Very sad if he actually said that.
But maybe Obama is right. It is a miracle that the US economy survived the tough rhetoric of Truman, or LBJ when he negotiated Medicare and played hard ball with Congress.
The level of economic reporting and argument is as low as it can go, even on a common sense level, any common sense about it has disappeared from the media in this country. People spout nonsense. Sad to say some prominent GOP aligned economists seem to be encouraging it.
Edit: I put in some missing words. I tried to type fast, which is always a mistake for me.
ppcli
@OzoneR:
And there’s also the wide prevailing idea that public jobs are being cut because of low tax revenue caused by the loss of private sector jobs, which are being cut because of taxes and regulation. The fact that people don’t see that this view is everywhere makes me wonder just how in touch the left is with the public.
Sadly, yes. The Republicans have mastered the strategy of saying something over and over, with ruthless message discipline, until it becomes accepted dogma. It’s true that against stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain; and stupidity channeled by Luntz-crafted slogans is more formidable still. Consider:
Sez Cohn:
According to the very best evidence we have, the Recovery Act prevented the economic downturn from becoming a full-brown depression or something very close to it.
That’s certainly what I believe: Stimulus should have been bigger, as Krugman said, but things would have been incalculably worse without it. My economist friends at the U, even the Republican ones, are in various shades of agreement about that. (One of them was asked by the Bush admin to be part of their budget team – not a lefty by any means.) And yet, listening to [communist-soc*ialist! Radio Dnieper!] NPR when they had Paul Diamond on, I hear the interviewer say (approximately – from memory) “but it’s accepted wisdom that the stimulus was a failure”.
[In defence of the talking head disembodied voice, he may not have been asserting conventional wisdom but rather setting up Diamond with an easy pitch over the plate. The point is not that disembodied voice man was a blockhead, since he may not have been, but rather that the CW is sufficiently entrenched that he could say that and he could count on people nodding along.]
(Add: Aw crap, moderation for the soci*alist word. I’ll try again – moderator please delete one of these.]
OzoneR
@Steve:
Except that’s true. If half the country is stupid, than we’ll get half stupid policies.
That’s how democracy works. You get outvoted, you suffer the consequences. That’s why you do everything you can NOT to get outvoted and quite frankly I rarely see the left do that.
Martin
Perfect for the Balloon Juice parent.
Download Samuel L. Jackson’s audiobook version of Go The Fuck To Sleep for free
Spaghetti Lee
@OzoneR:
I’m sure that’s real comforting to the innocent people who are suffering because of it. I got onto this whole liberalism thing because it seemed like a political ideology focused on helping people. I’ll leave the smug self-righteousness about other people’s misery to the Randroid scum.
Cacti
@jl:
At what point did LBJ or Truman have to deal with an opposition who was willing to default on the full faith and credit of the United States and tank the national economy all for a temporary political victory?
Martin
@OzoneR:
Actually, in a 2-party democracy if 51% of the country is stupid, you get 100% stupid policies.
OzoneR
@jl:
Except it’s true. and he said it about the debt ceiling, that he had to be careful not to set the tone that he would be as unreasonable as Republicans, thus making it less likely the debt ceiling will be raised.
Dude, do you KNOW what the economy was like after World War II? And he never had to worry about a default. Hell, his tough rhetoric didn’t stop the anti-labor Taft Hartley Act from passing, now did it?
LBJ NEGOTIATED Medicare. You’re not calling on Obama to negotiate, he’s already doing that and that’s annoying you, you’re calling on him to propagate to excite…somebody, no one of us is really sure who.
Suffern ACE
@Martin: And in our current system, the best you actually get are 75% stupid policies, since 1/2 of the supposedly “non-stupid” side at any given moment might be stupid in its own special way.
OzoneR
@Spaghetti Lee:
and it is, but when it loses, you’re shit out of luck until the next election, then you try again. I don’t really think some people get this whole democracy thing.
General Stuck
You know I got whacky, even progressive blasphemy when it comes to the economy. While I believe the government needs to keep spending money to keep us bouncing along just above some sort of sane bottom to our jobs and economic plight, the problems run much deeper, and government spending alone will not bring back prosperity near like we’ve known it.
And until enough of the country realizes that the GOP on economic matters is the enemy of the general welfare of this country, and therefore their best interests, the structural changes in ideology and law will not happen, no matter how much money the government spends.
It is an entrenched mind set we are fighting, of cheap credit and hyperconsumerism for the general public. And short term profiteering not based on solid free market principles of supply AND demand/
The CBO pretty much confirmed this today with their bleak outlook on jobs and econ growth for the long and short term, and they took a Keynesian approach to not slow down government spending right now, until the economy gets some better.
And of course, is exactly why the wingers want to snap shut the gov pocketbook. Because Obama and dems will get blamed for it. But long term, our problem is turning back 30 years of wingnut econ policy running this country, and that will take some time. People ought to be worried and frustrated, but Obama’s general approval numbers seem fairly steady, as do the lower numbers for GOP approval. So maybe the country gets it a little more than we give them credit for. Sure hope so.
Here is an excellent blog entry by Tienle, that broadly lays out what can rescue us from our doldrums, at least in a pure economic sense. The changing of philosophy away from the awful damage right wing governance has given us, will take a lot longer, with the wingnuts fighting against that change, every step of the way. It’s the economy stupid, needs to be broadened to, It’s the energy, stupid
jl
@Cacti:
” At what point did LBJ or Truman have to deal with an opposition who was willing to default on the full faith and credit of the United States and tank the national economy all for a temporary political victory? ”
So what? I said that Obama reportedly feared how the markets would respond to what he said, not that he feared how the markets would respond to what the GOP did because of what he said. Those are two different things, and I trust that Obama can make his points with precision.
And even so, so what? You try to please the bully, because if you piss him off, he might not be able to help himself and do something crazy. And of course, the bully himself is the sole judge of what justifiably pisses him off so much he cannot control himself.
I don’t agree with you at all on this point.
ltshinysides
@jwb:
Fair ’nuff. Too much cable news in my diet, I think. That shit can be a kick in the dick every day.
boss bitch
@jl:
His point was that Democrats in Congress haz bully pulpit too and they could fucking use it sometime instead of waiting on him to give a ground shaking speech every day. All the things they want him to say, the gutter-below the belt stuff, they can say themselves.
And yes, what the president of the united states says can affect the markets. Why is that common sense fact up for debate?
Mike Kay (Chief of Staff)
@boss bitch: that article was sickening. When Al Gore used engage in the very same pseudo-bonding the press would crucify him as “inauthentic”.
of course, IOKIYAR
OzoneR
@jl: I don’t think you get what Obama is trying to say.
The business community are petrified that the Republicans won’t raise the debt ceiling, they’re relying on Obama to be the adult who finds some way to get them to do it. If he starts acting as unreasonable as them, the possibility that we default skyrockets and that creates economic chaos.
He DOES need to be careful with what he says, this is very different than LBJ and Truman punching Republicans over labor and civil rights issues, both of which did NOTHING to help their respective causes.
Little Boots
the Democrats have to learn how to look the Republicans in the eye and say Fuck You! the debt ceiling is the perfect opportunity. it will hurt Wall Street first. they know the Republicans cannot afford that, literally. use that, bitches. stop dicking around, and use that.
OzoneR
@Little Boots:
and then it will hurt everyone else. Wall Street can take the blow, the rest of the country cannot, and they will absorb the blow by screwing regular folk again.
I thought we already established THEY DON’T FUCKING CARE. Most of them ran in opposition to the damn bank bailout, why do you think they give a shit what Wall Street thinks?
Spaghetti Lee
@OzoneR:
I never said I didn’t get “this whole democracy thing”. In fact, I’d bet that two of the most important things in winning elections is keeping morale on your side high and trying to heal intraparty divisions, two things this crap of yours Ain’t helping to accomplish.
OzoneR
@Spaghetti Lee:
Not looking to do either with this, there are other ways to do that that we can and have discussed, all I’m doing is acknowledging reality.
Little Boots
@OzoneR:
they care about the rich. did we not establish that? cause we should. they care about the rich. everyone else? not so much. but wall street. extreme caring going on.
El Cid
Is a full-brown Depression one in which UPS controls everything?
Little Boots
@El Cid:
at least then, things are moving. but no. a full blown depression is complete stasis.
Davis X. Machina
What happens if a liberal president gives a liberal speech in the woods….
Steve
@OzoneR: My point is that it’s stupid to make snotty comments to people about how they shouldn’t have voted GOP when they actually didn’t vote GOP. “Well gee, maybe you should have tried harder not to get outvoted” should probably join my list of idiotic comments that liberals make.
Little Boots
@Little Boots:
is that true. i’m not sure that even means anything. am I right?
Davis X. Machina
@Evolved Deep Southerner:
“Better fewer, but better.”
V.I. Lenin, On the Troll Question, 1923
El Cid
@Little Boots: Not full-blown. Full-brown.
Maybe it’s when everyone gets the shit scared out of them.
Little Boots
@El Cid:
vulgar, but possibly true.
Mike Kay (Chief of Staff)
@Davis X. Machina: great post. here’s the telling line:
that’s the confounding thing about bloggers — they love to tout how well read and learnered they are and they love to rightfully smack the MSM for being superficial. Yet, for all their scholarship, bloggers are overly emotional, which leads them to commit the very same superficial errors. Give bloggers lip service and they’ll love you long time, no matter how bad your voting record (ie weiner).
OzoneR
@Steve:
a significant number of people in the State of Wisconsin who supports liberal policies voted Republican. 70%+ people supported the public option, 60%+ supported ending tax cuts for the rich, where were these people on election day?
They were voting Republican.
Fred
This whole theme the last week that Rethugs are tanking the economy and that is bad for Dems is such horseshit.
The economy will do what it will do. Rethugs can slow down Obama’s achievements and perhaps water down some of his historical accomplishments as well. But the economy cannot be drastically improved or drastically destroyed by any one party, in any one 4 year period.
Before you reply, “but but the debt ceiling and Greenwald said blah blah yada yada and Krugman…and and Dr. Doom…blah blah”. Even Rethugs with all their huffing and puffing are not that stupid. Their most influential lobbyist (Chamber of Commerce) told them not to do it. Their second most infuential group (Wall Street) told them not to do it. They have a back channel whisper campaign telling everyone they won’t do it. So don’t believe any of the bullshit you are reading here or anywhere else or any of the typical hot air coming from the beltway.
It’s all BULLSHIT!
Violet
Over the last couple of days when I’ve been in the car and Limbaugh’s show has been on I’ve heard him discussing the economy. Weirdly, he’s blaming the bankers for the subprime mess. Today he went on and on about how the bankers repackaged the loans and made out like bandits and we were all left holding the bag. And we bailed out the banks and the bankers got off scott free with our money. Seriously.
Something’s happening when Rush Limbaugh is blaming rich Wall St. bankers for the problems with the economy. Something is up.
jwb
@OzoneR: “They were voting Republican.” Or not voting.
Roger Moore
@Mike Kay (Chief of Staff):
I think it’s a mistake to generalize about “bloggers” as if they are a single, coherent group. Bloggers also include people like Hilzoy, Ta-Nehisi Coates, and Daniel Larison who think through what they say before they say it. It includes people like our blog host who may spout off at the mouth but are willing to listen to people they disagree with and acknowledge when they say something reasonable.
The bigger problem in this case is that there’s a group of people who have preconceptions about Obama that are so fixed that they won’t bother to check the facts before condemning him. That kind of intellectual laziness is scarcely confined to bloggers, though. It’s just that blogging gives those people a big enough soap box that their obnoxiousness can be noticed.
Little Boots
@Fred:
hope you’re right. you may be.
jwb
@Violet: I think he’s worried that bankers will be giving most of their money to Obama this election cycle. Given how crazy the GOP has been acting, including Rush bashing on them, they probably will.
Little Boots
I think Obama will win. what he’ll win, remains to be seen.
El Cid
@Violet: You are forgetting that the Democrats did the bailout and TARP was signed by Obama. It just was. So SHUT UP.
Violet
@jwb:
If he’s worried about it, he’s not changing any minds by going on at length about how they stole money from regular Americans with their fancy bookkeeping.
I only listen to Limbaugh if I’m in the car during the time he’s on. That’s not really that often and so much of his show is commercials. I can’t believe I’ve heard him talk about it twice in the last couple of days, once today and maybe once last week.
I figure he’s hammering on it for a reason, but I can’t figure out why. Does he want the average listener to start hating Wall St. bankers? Why?
OzoneR
@jwb:
pretty much the same thing.
Violet
@El Cid:
Well, yeah, but that’s what I would expect Limbaugh to harp on. And he did talk about it. But the majority of this particular rant today was AT the bankers. He described how they repackaged the subprime loans and sold them and they made a ton of money. And then he said, “but they didn’t actually create anything” or “do anything” or something like that. It was a good thing I was at a stoplight because I honestly probably would have driven off the road.
It almost sounded like a slightly watered down Matt Taibbi rant, with a few Limbaugh jabs at “people who shouldn’t have been getting those loans in the first place.” But mostly it was at the bankers.
I still don’t get it.
Steve
@OzoneR: Sure, people who vote Republican deserve Republican policies. That doesn’t have a lot to do with my point.
Little Boots
nobody deserves Republican policies. but damn, I wish they would stop asking for them.
Spaghetti Lee
@Violet:
There’s no way the fat man has suddenly seen the light after all these years, so go with your first theory. The bankers are looking at the GOP and deciding they’re too crazy for comfort, so they must, of course, be demonized, along with everyone else outside of the Noble Teabagger Revolution. Which is fucking fine by me. Banker money is the only thing keeping the Republican party afloat. If they want to snub it, go ahead.
jwb
@OzoneR: In practice, but I don’t think people feel the same way about it. If you don’t vote, you can always disavow responsibility. It’s bullshit, of course, but I think that’s how people think.
Little Boots
@jwb:
people need to start thinking a little more deeply.
and everyone stop voting stupid, por favor!
Suffern ACE
@Spaghetti Lee: You cut medicare because you love grandchildren and think that will make them free of debt. You don’t raise the debt ceiling because the only people who benefit from that are New York bankers and the Chinese. Why do liberals like the Chinese more than grandchildren?
jwb
@Violet: Rush isn’t always particularly smart politically, as he often leads with his id and ends up in a reactionary rant. I think that’s the case here; as Spaghetti Lee noted, Rush has basically just shifted into demonization mode—because really that’s what he knows best, that’s what his listeners want to hear, and the bankers are twisting goopers’ arms on the debt ceiling. (I suspect what has the bankers very nervous is that the arm twisting is not going as well as they would like.)
jwb
@Suffern ACE: Awesome!
Little Boots
I’m still right. dammit.
NR
@Little Boots: They would, if the Democrats gave them a compelling alternative.
OzoneR
@NR:
What about all those wonderful Democrats the blogs love who lost, they weren’t compelling alternatives?
Marc McKenzie
“President Obama isn’t the obstacle to passing a new jobs program. The Republican Party is…”
Oh, thank you for saying this, Jonathan Cohn…I mean, it’s only what some of us have been saying for what, months now? That it’s the GOP that’s chiefly responsible? That they have no job plan? That we should be screaming that loudly?
Just sayin’.
Marc McKenzie
@Roger Moore:
“The bigger problem in this case is that there’s a group of people who have preconceptions about Obama that are so fixed that they won’t bother to check the facts before condemning him. That kind of intellectual laziness is scarcely confined to bloggers, though. It’s just that blogging gives those people a big enough soap box that their obnoxiousness can be noticed.”
Spot-on.
Marc McKenzie
@Mike Kay (Chief of Staff):
I’m afraid you’re right on this one, Mike….
Bruce S
The GOP’s austerity agenda has already made things worse where it’s been tried – overseas. It’s hard to believe it’s not a calculated strategy to kill the recovery. The evidence is in and even conservative and establishment economists have predicted that spending cuts are job-killers:
http://titanicsailsatdawn.blogspot.com/2011/06/pushing-spending-cuts-will-kill-fragile.html
catclub
I believe it was Paul Ryan who gave the following explanation for his vote in favor of the $700B TARP program:
“If he didn’t, the economy would implode and there would be a democratic landslide.” So his motivation was NOT the actual economy, but the GOP’s prospects.
Now the GOP is pretty much betting that if they wreck the economy, they will be swept into power.
Again, never mind the effect on the economy; it all about the GOP prospects.
catclub
@Violet: I read (as much as I could stand of) the transcript. He only blames Democrats and Fannie and Freddie and Jimmy Carter; the usual made up scapegoats.
Sasha
Is the GOP intentionally trying to stall the economy in order to improve their chances in 2012?
It’s not an accusation. I’m just asking a question, that’s all. :)
Everyone should “just ask” that question.
john f
@jl: Good points, I will use them the next time my dittohead coworkers bring the ‘uncertainty’ argument up. To add, the country had robust economic growth and record low unemployment during the late 90’s when tax rates were higher and the “uncertainty” of Y2K was approaching.