Four years apart. pic.twitter.com/FntYHv9vIx
— daveweigel (@daveweigel) August 3, 2015
…. healing wounds, and wounding… uhhhh…
Well, apparently stupidity is an infinite resource:
Yeah, maybe don’t do that http://t.co/m5pdVQhkWE pic.twitter.com/gXxNcxGKAS
— Elizabeth Harrington (@LizWFB) August 3, 2015
Totally not desperate Ted Cruz now eating bacon off a gun barrel. http://t.co/Z7vJutjaCG #nottheonion pic.twitter.com/5163D7sRGq
— Mother Jones (@MotherJones) August 4, 2015
Prediction: to prove his bona fides, Ted Cruz will bite the head off a live chicken during GOP debate. https://t.co/gpwvSgunTG
— Jeet Heer (@HeerJeet) August 4, 2015
***********
Apart from keeping all hands inside the car (with the windows rolled up), what’s on the agenda for the day?
RK
Is bacon on a gun barrel Freudian?
Hkedi
I would pay good money to see the Republican candidates go through a “japanese game show” style obstacle course, the way things are going, it will probably happen in 2020.
hellslittlestangel
An egg fried on Louie Gohmert’s head would go good with that bacon.
raven
It ain’t no fucking machine gun Mr Cuban badass.
Baud
Meh. Everyone knows the dignity of presidency was forever lost that time Obama put his feet up on his desk.
Baud
@Hkedi:
If Trump doesn’t unzip his pants and challenge the other candidates to a dick-measuring contest during the debate, I will be disappointed.
different-church-lady
@Baud: So they’re going to use a micrometer, are they?
mai naem mobile
Its the Presidents Birthday. I hope he does something awesomely trolly just for the GOP to lose their shit over.
different-church-lady
@mai naem mobile: You mean, like, continuing to exist?
OzarkHillbilly
The stupid, it hurts.
@raven: Shhhhhhh…..
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@Baud: So, you’re setting the bar low?
gene108
http://www.today.com/money/amazon-kmart-walmart-com-stop-selling-realistic-toy-guns-ny-t35856
I am left to wonder, how Rossen’s expirement ties into two high profile cases of people being shot by police, who had toy guns.
Ignoring recent history, when running such a piece seems like sloppy journalism to me.
Though I should probably be used to sloppy journalism from the MSM, I still feel like they should try to do better.
Warren Terra
There is a widespread belief on the internets that bacon makes everything better. We owe a debt to Sen. Cruz for testing the limits of this theory. Turns out that bacon doesn’t make mindless Freudian gun-worship better.
Warren Terra
@gene108:
It may be relevant that Jeff Rossen is apparently just about the whitest, most besuited guy on the planet. Also: I’m guessing he had some dude behind him with a big-ass camera on their shoulder, a news van, and maybe a lighting tech and a coffee flunky. Let’s just say that it’s not likely to have been a carefully devised attempt to explore the nature of police violence against young Black and Brown men and boys.
ETA to be fair to TODAY, the point is that the cops (who were in on it in any case) interpreted Rossen waving a moderately realistic toy gun as an actual threat – so perhaps I wasn’t fair to harp on the ludicrous casting here, it isn’t really relevant to the message.
BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: Rachel pointed that out on her show.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I heard he once wore jeans in the Oval(shudders).
geg6
Happy birthday, President Obama!
Schlemazel
@gene108:
I am sure his little ‘experiment’ shows that everyone of the ~400 people killed by police in the US this year had it coming/brought it on themselves. #bluelivesmatter
this is the media today (no pun intended) comforting the comfortable and afflicting the afflicted.
Bobby B.
@Warren Terra: I find the Today show soothing to watch because the sight of people jumping up and down holding signs like “we love you grandma Pookie” tranqquilizes me, like watching fish in an aquarium.
OzarkHillbilly
@Schlemazel:
Correction: 680 and counting.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
I guess I’m in the pocket of the police lobby, because I think it’s perfectly legitimate for a cop to interpret someone pulling a realistic toy gun and pointing it at them while they are out on the street as a real threat and responding as such. That means:
1) If you have a realistic looking toy gun, be fucking careful with it;
2) Don’t let your kids have realistic looking toy guns;
3) Maybe we should consider the value of having realistic looking toy guns at all;
4) It would be really nice if we could reduce the number realistic looking real guns in American society, so that it wasn’t so reasonable for police to think that a toy gun is a threat.
The problem with the John Crawford case is that he was not only carrying a toy gun in a store that sells toy guns, which is something the cops should have kept in mind, but also that he wasn’t pointing it at anyone or even paying attention to them. So, yeah, they should have been prosecuted for killing him, but that doesn’t have much to do with the situation described.
OzarkHillbilly
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym: I wonder if Don Lemon would like to try pulling that stunt?
Scott S.
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym: He lived in an open-carry state, too, didn’t he? You can have an infinite number of white nitwits waving guns around, but one black guy has one, and it’s a shoot-on-sight situation.
MomSense
@Baud:
Don’t forget the tan suit. That really set the presidency back.
bystander
The only way Rossen could have proven racism had nothing to do with the police killings of innocent people would have been if they had shot him dead without a single question. No one has ever suggested that the police should not take a person wielding what appears to be a gun seriously.
But I live in NYC and we have multiple cops to take down a guy committing the assault on the body politic of selling loose cigarettes, so I’m not too good a judge. BTW, I hate Chuck Schumer. I’ve written to him multiple times to tell him to do the right thing and support the plan for peace, not as he did when he voted for DOMA to appease a handful of his constituency.
Emma
@raven: Leave us out of it! As far as I can tell Cruz is invisible here. Mind you I do avoid political conversations these days.
satby
I guess I was way ahead of my time, because 30 years ago when my sons were children they had toy guns in neon colors, and after I capitulated on the toy gun issue after much discussion with the ex, neon colors where the only kinds of toy guns allowed for play. 30 years ago some kid was accidentally shot for waving a realistic toy gun at cops while gun control was in force in Chicago and it seemed like a responsible parent wouldn’t let kids play with something that could be mistaken in that way. Now with ammosexuals everywhere confusing the issue, I would be back to no toy guns allowed. Sorry kids, use a stick.
oldster
But dammit, New York State, don’t you realize?
If toy guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have toy guns!!
Baud
@raven:
You would think he would know what a machine gun is since his dad fought for Castro.
Kay
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
Is that true for everyone else? If I see a 12 year old in a park with a toy gun in Ohio is it “perfectly legitimate” for me to shoot the child dead? So we have a lower standard for professional police officers, not a higher one?
raven
@Baud: They proly had those grease guns.
OzarkHillbilly
I saw the robot thread this morn and all I can say is I am very grateful to the fine people of Philadelphia for destroying the “poor, sweet Canadian robot that was trying to hitchhike across country.” because they saved me the trouble of doing it myself. Why? because any…. thing…. that could inspire such syrupy sappy emotional claptrap needs to be destroyed.
raven
We’re under attack!!! Oh, wait , it’s the roofers!
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: I have several grease guns.
Joel
I have a particularly deep antipathy for morning shows.
raven
@OzarkHillbilly: My buddy in Champaign, aptly called Machine Gun Mike, has a couple. He’s ex-SF and I’ll never forget the 4th of July party in abut 1971 where he let go with that baby in the cornfield. There were some distraught Central Illinois hippies that day!
ThresherK (GPad)
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym: Part of me wonders if there is a TNRA, a Toy NRA, guaranteeing realistic toy gun access for all.
Wag
@Warren Terra:
But I’m sure the machine guns taste better with bacon. I would love to see a photo of Cruz felating a machine gun dripping with bacon grease
Elizabelle
@Baud: Good to see you here. Had noticed your absence.
Very sorry to hear of your mother’s passing. You’re in my thoughts.
Did you get your wit from her, or was she an early victim?
Elizabelle
Also thinking of Ultraviolet Thunder, who lost his mother yesterday morning. Happy to hear he had a good visit and conversation with her the day before.
Best to all the moms and kids out there, here or gone.
raven
Trump “We have to, and this gets me in trouble with some Republicans, take care of the people who can’t take care of themselves”.
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: I’m kinda lost. When ever greasing corn, I just rolled the cob over the stick of butter. No grease gun needed. Wait a minute….
satby
I’m hoping that today goes better than yesterday. I had a client blow an interview for an entry level job that she should have done well in, and a host family decide to take only 1 exchange student in stead of the two they originally committed to (fortunately, no students had been notified yet). Both events aren’t just demoralizing, they penalize me financially.
Today I have to do phone cold calling to try to dig up more open jobs for my disabled clients to apply to, and I am beginning to realize that I really am not down with this program at all. I love job coaching, but my clients are not competitive with an average job seeker and all the fluff in the world about “everyone has something” doesn’t really change that.
I’m dreading my day. I thought this year couldn’t be worse than last year. So wrong.
PurpleGirl
@gene108: But what about people, specifically black men, who are UNARMED?
satby
@Baud: Baud, I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your mother. Deepest condolences to you and your family.
OzarkHillbilly
Poor poor Darren Wilson…. It would seem nobody trusts him with a badge and a gun anymore.
Kay
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
In the toy gun shooting in Cleveland the police officer’s defenders said police officers are trained to respond to a threat of deadly force with deadly force. Are they also trained to do some other things, like gather information before shooting people or can they just rely on “training” when it benefits them? The guy who called it in gathered some information before he even called them. He said it might be a toy and was “probably a juvenile”. He did their job better than they did.
People do stupid things, especially children. I don’t think they can shift the entire burden off on the public and still retain the “professional” distinction. The higher duty of professionalism comes along with all the power they have. They don’t get one without the other.
Cervantes
@Bobby B.:
Don’t discount, either, the mesmerizing effect of the theme music.
Cervantes
@Kay:
They are simply and obviously out of control.
What are the odds some control can and will be re-exerted?
Baud
@Elizabelle:
Thank you. She had a less sarcastic humor than I do. I wouldn’t have tried to be witty around her because she would have taken it too seriously.
@satby:
Thank you.
debbie
@Baud:
I’m sorry for your loss. Whether expected or sudden (and I’ve experienced both), losing a parent absolutely sucks;
Patrick
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
So why is Cliven Bundy alive while all these black men are dead? Oh yes, Bundy is white…
Baud
@debbie:
Thanks. She had many health issues, but she was doing OK and this was really unexpected.
Cervantes
@PurpleGirl:
As the man said: Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay: What, you want professionals to act with professionalism? Next thing you know you’ll be wanting them to not beat up people for getting a little mouthy.
JPL
@Baud: I’m so sorry for your loss. Losing a parent sucks.
Cervantes
@Baud:
My condolences.
The pain is asymptotic: it never completely ends but it does become manageable.
Hang in there.
Elizabelle
@Baud: I’m sorry. Unexpected loss is harder, I think.
elmo
@Cervantes: If the man said that, he should have said it in proper English. You know, like Jesus.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: Stay strong.
debbie
@Kay:
We need to stop accepting the use of deadly force. A security guard where I work used to be a cop and she’s got several stories of shooting armed assailants coming at her in the leg.
Baud
Thanks all. My overly rational mind knows full well how ordinary and inevitable death is. But the rest of me hasn’t caught up yet.
Cervantes
@Joel:
But they’re really no worse than anything else the “news divisions” put out.
If anything they’re a little more honest about the role they play.
Cervantes
@Wag:
Whereas I would really rather not.
raven
@Baud: Aw, I just saw this. So sorry for your loss.
Patricia Kayden
@gene108: While cops may have a hard time distinguishing fake guns from real guns, the issue with the Black young man in Walmart and Tamir Rice appears to be shooting first and then asking questions later. Plus, Ohio is a state where you can open carry. In both of those cases, there was no opportunity to comply with orders to drop the gun before the officers opened fire.
@Baud: Echoing the condolences for the loss of your Mother.
@geg6: Hoping President Obama has a wonderful B’Day.
Cervantes
@elmo:
Sorry about that — but it’s funny you mention Jesus, because the line is remembered from the Albigensian Crusade: “Kill them all. The Lord knows which ones are his.”
MomSense
@OzarkHillbilly:
Well I have a couple of glue guns and nobody is going to take them from me.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: It takes time. Take it.
Cervantes
… is not bad, compared to those among his confrères who will never learn anything.
MomSense
@Baud:
Really sorry, Baud.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay: I’ll just bet you are also against the shackling of elementary school pupils too, you soft on crime hippie liberal socialist.
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
Around here, they lock kids in “quiet rooms” for misbehaving in class.
ETA: https://stateimpact.npr.org/ohio/2012/08/05/see-which-ohio-schools-use-seclusion-rooms/
Kay
@debbie:
I just don’t think they should be able to rely on their training without also relying on the other parts of their training, or you’re talking about a special group of people who have enormous power but little or no responsibility for their actions.
None of the other people in that park in Cleveland overreacted. Some of them stayed away, one of them observed for a while, gathered some information and then called the professionals. If Cleveland is like any other place in Ohio the public don’t lack weapons. They were all under this “threat of deadly force”. The professionals arrive and it’s all bets are off- anything can happen? That can’t be right. There’s something wrong with this analysis.
PurpleGirl
@satby: Not to thread jack…
but my clients are not competitive with an average job seeker and all the fluff in the world about “everyone has something” doesn’t really change that.
Thank you. I agree. The term that I absolutely hate is “differently abled.” No, I’m not differently abled. I am disabled — I stutter. I have stuttered forever. I don’t have better hearing or sight or art talent or anything to compensate. And yes, it has had a negative impact on my ability to work.
ETA: I hope you do have a better day today.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone:)
OzarkHillbilly
@MomSense: “You can have my glue guns when you pry them from my cold dead hands.”
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
I’ve been against that since it started but I’m a on school committee and I have to tell you there are a certain group of public school parents who love, love, love zero tolerance. They love it for one of two reasons. They believe their child is harmed by disruption in the classroom (their kids are well-behaved) or they have poorly-behaved children and they believe kids should get hammered, because that’s how they raise their own kids.
The racial imbalance (which looks huge and blatantly inequitable to me, looking at national stats) is not a issue here because we (basically) have one race but I can guarantee when they reform the school to prison pipeline they will run right into the zero tolerance parents. They’ll know them because they love the phrase “slap on the wrist”. I cannot tell you how many juveniles I have met who have parents who want them punished more, not less. It’s a horrible idea- the court system is a blunt instrument and the parents will hate the result, but it’s WEEKLY, I hear this.
OzarkHillbilly
@PurpleGirl: I am sure you have something I lack, even if it is only a heightened sense of empathy. Not that empathy is marketable or anything.
boatboy_srq
@Baud: [[HUG]]
MomSense
@OzarkHillbilly:
Which is never because glue guns keep hands toasty (burny) warm, even dead hands.
OzarkHillbilly
I knew you were a soft on crime hippie liberal socialist….. The police aren’t teachers, they don’t belong in our schools. Back in my day schools dealt with their problems. I guess outsoucing isn’t just for corporations any more.
Belafon
@Baud: Are you sure it wasn’t when he put his hand on the Bible? I’m sure that’s what caused Roberts to mess up the oath.
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
Also, some of the principals are under intense pressure to get their test scores/graduation numbers up. We have one who is a habitual offender. They are shifting kids out of their school and into credit recovery “alternative programs” because their numbers go up. The mayor of Chicago juked his own stats. He credits the “sending” high school with the graduation stat for kids they refer out to credit recovery which is an absolute recipe for juking. Immediately his graduation stats shot up, and then he ran on his reforms “working”. Arne Duncan is doing the same thing. They’re essentially setting up two systems without admitting it. Everyone is happy- the principal gets credit for better numbers, politicians can say “reforms are working!” and the parents who want disruptive kids removed (and there are a lot of them and they’re loud) are happy because now there’s “order and discipline”. No one pays any attention to the kids who were quietly shuffled out.
rikyrah
Poll: Clinton’s favorability takes a major hit
Hillary Clinton’s favorability is sinking further underwater, according to the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll released Monday night.
The Democratic presidential candidate is viewed unfavorably by 48 percent of likely voters, compared with 37 percent who view her favorably.
Her ratings are down significantly from the last NBC/WSJ poll in June, when 44 percent viewed Clinton favorably versus 40 percent who viewed her unfavorably.
These numbers will certainly add to the consternation already permeating Democratic circles following a recent Quinnipiac University poll which showed Clinton’s favorability drowning in key swing states.
NBC News points out that Clinton’s fav/unfav ratio, while worse than Barack Obama’s throughout his presidency, is identical to her husband Bill Clinton’s score heading into the Democratic nomination in ’92.
Pollster Bill McInturff compared Clinton’s campaign to a battleship able to withstand several torpedo strikes, “but there has been a torpedo that has hit something, and there are some leaks.”
Despite her low favorability numbers, Clinton remains the clear frontrunner among the current field of Democratic presidential candidates.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/poll-clintons-favorability-takes-a-major-hit/ar-BBlmWwe?ocid=HPCDHP
satby
@PurpleGirl: I appreciate your saying that. And honestly, if stuttering was the only problem I could find you a job fairly easily I think (still learning this gig). I’d like to think that there are places for everyone who wants to to work, but the expectation is that my clients, many of whom are cognitively impaired, can compete for jobs in an open market with people who are not disabled in that way. And this thinking has grown because we as a nation just don’t want to take care of our own citizens. I asked why some of these folks can’t go into a more sheltered work environment and it was treated as a near heresy.
Not to mention I feel like I’m sometimes throwing innocents to wolves. So many of our fellow citizens are such nice people.
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
The racial imbalance is indefensible and seems to be pure bias but the general idea is defended using sort of a reverse triage idea. Most kids aren’t a problem. If you remove the disruptive kids the kids who aren’t disruptive have a better “learning environment”. Kids themselves say this. If they’re serious about school they get really annoyed with constant interruptions and turmoil. They think it’s unfair, to them. It’s just really hard because public schools have to hit this mysterious “sweet spot” where everyone is considered and all needs and wants are heard. They make trade-offs. However. THAT doesn’t explain the discipline disparity between black kids and white kids for the same offenses. That’s another issue, and has to be addressed immediately.
Paul in KY
@Kay: If you think it is a real gun (seriously), you can shoot them or call police or run away in a zigzag manner. A kid with a real gun can shoot you dead just as easily as an adult with a real gun.
I would NEVER allow any children of mine to play with a very realistic copy of a real weapon.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay:
That’s a feature, not a bug. That’s why charter schools and vouchers are so popular with the ‘reformers’. Much easier if you can just get rid of the 20-30% of children who are more…. needful of additional resources.
J R in WV
@Baud:
My condolences as well. Losing your Mom is among the harder parts of growing older.
Hang in there!
Paul in KY
@raven: If that’s a true quote, that makes him a commie RINO.
schrodinger's cat
@Baud: {{{Baud}}} I did not know about your mother’s passing. I must have missed the thread. How are you holding up?
Paul in KY
@satby: Sorry to hear about that. Best of luck with the others.
Kathleen
@Kay: Yes. Next question.
Paul in KY
@Baud: Very sorry to hear of your mom’s passing.
Kathleen
@Joel: On the Today show this morning Shuck Todd told Matt Lauer Donald Trump represents “anti Washington” sentiment. This is the new Overlord talking point. I loathe them, also, but I will keep Today on while working out. Frothing Rage does wonders for helping me get heart rate up.
Paul in KY
@MomSense: Be pretty hard to pry those from your hands :-)
Paul in KY
@rikyrah: Good morning to you!
Kathleen
@Baud: My condolences to you and your family.
Kathleen
@Patrick: And he didn’t have a toy gun.
raven
@Paul in KY: I was watching when he said it.
Kathleen
@RK: Next, Ben Carson performs brain surgery with an AK47.
Paul in KY
@raven: That won’t help him with the nutwads. Sad to say that a sentiment from the 19th century would be a hippy disqualifier in the modern Repub party.
Gian
@bystander:
Douglas Zerby was drunk, sitting outside his friend’s house in long beach playing with a garden hose nozzle.
he was shot by cops who hid themselves and never announced themselves, he never saw the faces of the men who shot him down or even knew they were there.
the initial claim was he “pointed it at the officers” but they never gave him the chance.
http://ktla.com/2013/04/05/verdict-reached-in-douglas-zerby-wrongful-death-lawsuit/
a large part of the problem is we have police who are trained to be fearful, to escalate up the ladder of force first, and rapidly.
Paul in KY
@Gian: That is so fucked up (Mr. Zerby’s murder)!!! They took the word of some random dipshit that he had a gun, didn’t confirm it wasn’t, and then murdered him.
One look thru binoculars would have confirmed it. Also, how about a police officer asking him to drop it?!?!?
NorthLeft12
@rikyrah: Re: Hilary Clinton’s 48% disapproval rating. Don’t be surprised if the NY Times now says;
“See, we told you there was something crooked/wrong about her, and almost half of Americans agree with that!……..So it must be true.!!”
I just don’t get the hate for her….especially from people on the left too.
Kay
@Paul in KY:
Yeah, I disagree. Kids have always gotten more leeway to be dumb. Always. “Professional with extraordinary power” has to mean they are BETTER at assessing threats than random members of the public in a park, or I’ll just call my neighbor Keith when there’s a threat. He’s pretty level-headed and he has guns.
boatboy_srq
@OzarkHillbilly: Back in the day, teachers were actually paid enough to handle difficult situations, and took that as part of their job. Three decades of defunding education has done that in.
sherparick
@gene108: The point to understand Jeff Rossen is that police view a white guy wearing suit waving a gun, whether real or toy, completely different then they do a black or brown person, particularly a black or brown young man who is possibly waving a gun. The first individual (lets call him “Jeff” is viewed as neutral, potential ally, the latter as “the enemy.” Meanwhile, if a brother (a/k/a another policeman) is blowing someone, say his ex-wife, away, well then you just give him a hug when he is done. http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/17/new_jersey_policeman_reportedly_kills_wife_witnesses_say_officers_made_no.html
Paul in KY
@Kay: I’m not commenting on the sad situation up in Cleveland. If ANYONE is pointing at you what you really think is a loaded gun, you need to do something fast. Call the law, run, try & take it from them (if a small child), whatever. All it takes is that pull on the trigger to kill you.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: My daughter is so irritated by disruptive kids in the classroom that it makes school a miserable experience for her. She’s relatively well-behaved and is also extremely sensitive about this.
I have to say, when I hear her going on about this, the temptation is great to move her to some private school that has the ability to just kick these kids out. But I also know that that also involves most likely cocooning her in some highly artificial upper-class, lily-white, no-special-needs-kids environment, just because unlike many parents I’ve got the money to do it. And I’m not sure that would be good for her in the long run. Nobody is actually assaulting her or threatening her safety, as far as I can tell (which is more than I could say for my own experience, and I’ll certainly be keeping an eye on it). She’s just bothered by them acting out and getting called out by the teacher.
I tell her that no matter where she goes, if there are kids, she’s likely to encounter some who are rowdy and cause trouble, and there’s not really any getting around dealing with it to some degree. But it’s only a limited comfort.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Kay:
There apparently is a new cable reality show called “The Strictest Parents in the World” where the gimmick is that they have “troubled” teens go live with the titular parents for a few weeks. The twist is that most of the kids end up LOVING these new parents because, unlike their own homes, the new parents set clear limits, establish clear rules, praise the kids when they do things right, and don’t freak out if the kid does something wrong. They actually sit down with the kids be calmly discuss what went wrong and help the kid strategize how not to do it again.
I’ve been lurking on a Reddit message board with people who had abusive (usually narcissistic, but also borderline or unmedicated bipolar) parents and they all seem to love the show, because it shows that good parents are consistent and predictable and “strictness” isn’t really the issue. Now I’m kind of curious to watch it.
Ruckus
@different-church-lady: You have to specify which size of micrometer. I’d bet you meant a 1in.