Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires Republicans to act in good faith.

Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

They are not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

We’re watching the self-immolation of the leading world power on a level unprecedented in human history.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

Hell hath no fury like a farmer bankrupted.

Second rate reporter says what?

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

One way or another, he’s a liar.

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. do not touch it.”

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

Dumb motherfuckers cannot understand a consequence that most 4 year olds have fully sorted out.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Open Thread – *Another* GOP Debate!?!

Open Thread – *Another* GOP Debate!?!

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CNN, this time, Jake Tapper moderating. You’ve been warned. Livestream here.

Guardian liveblog here.

Reader Interactions

252Comments

  4. 4.

    Feebog

    Another debate? I thought they had cut down on them. Seems like we have already had a couple dozen already.

  5. 5.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    I watch these debates like I watch Project Runway or Top Chef. To see interesting stuff, but theres no way I would vote for any of them for president.

  6. 6.

    CaseyL

    Another evening of not bothering to turn the TV on, but following the excitement via BJ comments and Twitter.

    I’d watch the Canada thing, but the contrast would be too depressing.

  9. 9.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    @Baud: I can’t figure out if Trumpster has high cholesterol eyes or if its the cut out from the mask used for tanning.

  10. 10.

    Jim, Foolish LIteralist

    Matt Oswald ‏@ MattOswaltVA 9m9 minutes ago
    $5 bucks says George Zimmerman is in the audience #GOPDebate

  24. 24.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    What a disappointment. No nasty fighting (yet?). ::pouts::

  26. 26.

    jl

    Joining in late, just in time to listen to fake sensible moderate Kasich try to pass of 30 year old failed Reagan economic snake oil as new innovative economic thinking.

  31. 31.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    Margaret Trudeau looks pretty hawt for however old she is. Also too, Obama doesn’t talk like Trumpster. Not at all. He’s talking about leaving stuff better for our kids. Nothing about how rich he is or the size of his tool.

  32. 32.

    Anne Laurie

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Marco really shouldn’t talk about trade with Colombia. Just saying.

    That’s the advantage of local knowledge — Rubio’s pandering to the Floridians who make a nice living off Latin & South American trade and the people who engage in it, and there’s lots of them. Yeah, there will be jokes tomorrow about his druglord brother-in-law, but Trump’s already locked up the TookRJerbs! votes.

  33. 33.

    jl

    Another chance for the incompetent moderators to call out GOPers on anti-factual nonsense. There are no millions of undocumented workers flooding the US.

    Why is Rubio here? Is he still a candidate?

    Edit: Actually evidence does not support Rubio’s contention on low sill jobs. If anything, higher skilled workers are crowding into lower skill labor market because the labor market has been so weak overall.

    Edit2: though, thank God and FSM, the labor market seems to be improving for critical months before election when voters start making up their minds about which party to support.

  37. 37.

    Warren Terra

    The problem with parodying Trump, as with the @readonaldtrump account you quote, is that it just confuses the issue of how genuinely awful the real thing is.

  39. 39.

    msdc

    “Donald T. Trump” has got to be a fake account, right? Trump’s middle initial is J, and that twitter handle is one letter off from the real Trump’s.

    Also, he’s far more humble and presidential than the real Donald Trump.

  41. 41.

    Anne Laurie

    Trump just spoiled the ‘secret’ of Carson’s planned endorsement. Any chance this tees Carson off enough to revoke instead?

  42. 42.

    jl

    @debbie: Thanks. I’m taking a break from the debate to watch the Trump make up tutorial. Looks funny. I see cheetos are involved.

  43. 43.

    Bill Murray

    I think calling a jerk circle rather than a circle jerk would be more Presidential. To be really cool (for 1983) he should have gone with Parade of the Horribles which was a Circle Jerks song

  46. 46.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @jl:

    Why is Rubio here? Is he still a candidate?

    We have to dispel with (sic) this fiction that Rubio knows that he’s losing.

  48. 48.

    Aleta

    I heard Trump charged his own sons interest on the loans they took out to attend Trump University.

  49. 49.

    Warren Terra

    @Aleta:

    I heard Trump charged his own sons interest on the loans they took out to attend Trump University.

    on the other hand, Trump University falsely advertised that high-rolling customers would get to meet the Donald, so by your theory his sons were buying a chance not to meet him. Cheap at the price!

  52. 52.

    Mandalay

    Marco’s gifts to the nation when he becomes president:
    – tax cuts for billionaires
    – increasing the retirement age to 70 for under 55s.

    He’s crunched the numbers and decided that America has more billionaires than under 55s.

  54. 54.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    @schrodinger’s cat: I was trying to make the comment short but I wanted to add that Justin is 45 so I’m guessing Margarets got to be in her 70s and she looks like shes in her 50s.

  56. 56.

    PsiFighter37

    I just finished exercising and I see no shouting or yelling. Is this what acceptance by the Establishment looks like?

  60. 60.

    jl

    Who is putting on this debate? Moderators are assuming that social security and Medicare are going bankrupt? Ignorant and lazy, or corrupt, or both, journinalism?

    Edit: OK, CNN debate.

  63. 63.

    Anne Laurie

    Trump just complained to Dana Bash, in Florida, that ‘the Democrats want to keep Social Security as it is — they want to expand it.’ Because all those retired seniors can’t wait to vote against Social Security! Are we sure he’s not a Democratic mole, after all?

  64. 64.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @jl: Marco and the moderators. The moderators asked about Social Security and Marco talked about Debt Crisis!.

  65. 65.

    Anne Laurie

    @rikyrah: The RNC did cut the number of debates, from 20+ last cyle to 12. Unfortunately for RNC PR BS, twelve is at least nine too many this year!

  69. 69.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Baud: WTF is the matter with them? I came to see a fight. And to drink a hot toddy in time to the fight. Assuming that it’s a scannable meter, of course.

  74. 74.

    jl

    Cruz, in between lies, mouths more 30 year old Reagan era slogans and tries to present it as new innovative thinking.

    And CNN goes for an asinine gotcha. Cruz compares Trump to HRC!!!???? Yep, CNN vapid idiocy.

  76. 76.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    This is the weirdest Republican primary, one or the other of them take turns actually blowing the whistle on the standard Republican talking points, for example Rubio saying no, foreign aid is 1%, so harping on it like it’s bankrupting us is insane, or Trump saying invading Iraq was based on lies and a yuge mistake — but they each only have one, and they all contradict each other’s, plus of course their proposals about what to do about these things are completely insane.

  78. 78.

    Anne Laurie

    @Mandalay:

    He’s crunched the numbers and decided that America has more billionaires than under 55s

    Rubio’s looking forward to his rapidly approaching post-candidacy career: The billionaires will reward him, the common voters havent.

  80. 80.

    jl

    Cruz is such an oblivious smarmy dishonest self-satisfied ass, he would be good to run against.

  85. 85.

    PsiFighter37

    I really despise the generic ‘fraud and abuse’ throwaway lines. Fucking itemize what it is! Otherwise it’s an empty applause line that means jack.shit, especially when it comes to using it to pay for something else.

  87. 87.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Aleta: Sorry about that; I’ll stop. It’s folk medicinal, since we’re both coming off colds.

  88. 88.

    jl

    @PsiFighter37:

    ” empty applause line that means jack.shit, ”

    Everything I’ve heard so far is an empty applause line that means jack shit, But I admit that I tuned in a little late.

  89. 89.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    Jeezus, did Reince put some mild tranquilizers in these idiots’ water? This is boring. I thought we were going to have duels at the very least.

  90. 90.

    Mandalay

    Comrade Kasich tells Marco we don’t need to raise the retirement age – we can means test Social Security payments instead.

    Not much wild applause for that one.

  94. 94.

    Anne Laurie

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Trump, it will be proclaimed tomorrow, is ‘pivoting towards the general’ by speaking semi-sensibly about voters outside the Repub base. Cruz is going big for the Spite Voters at the heart of that base.

    Meanwhile, Rubio is soliciting for his next job as a lobbyist. And Kasich is saying nasty things to all those not-good-centrist people who made fun of his recycled Reaganisms when they weren’t ignoring him, during what will almost certainly be his last hurrah.

  95. 95.

    jl

    @Mai.naem.mobile: Trump announced he would tone it down for this debate. He has said he realized he can’t act like a mean drunk circus clown for the general, and I suppose he views himself as the presumptive nominee and therefore it is time to move towards presidential civility and gravitas.

  96. 96.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    How would Failgunner’s tariff not result in reciprocal tariffs against us?

  97. 97.

    Jim, Foolish LIteralist

    You can all catch this video of Elizabeth Warren eviscerating/destroying/disemboweling Mitch McConnell and his Supreme Asshole Caucus later. It’ll be on Rachel Maddow website, I’m sure.

    has anyone asked Drumpft about his rallies?

  98. 98.

    jl

    @Mandalay: The Establishment GOPers can talk about cutting and gutting Social Security and Medicare all they want. Make for some good attack ads for the general, if any of them get the nomination.

  99. 99.

    raven

    I think Trump is a bit wary after this shit in Fayettenam. He was ok with the sucker punch but when the dude is on film saying “next time we may have to kill him” Mr Badass may have to chill for a while.

  104. 104.

    jl

    There are some shreds of truth to what Trump says on trade. I can see why he will be a dangerous candidate if he is allowed to emphasize trade and jobs.

    Cruz may be a brilliant debater, but he seems to know nothing about the real world, and his habit of coughing up nothing but standard reactionary GOP bromides rivals Rubio’s act.

  106. 106.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @Anne Laurie: Exactly. The danger being of course that the base voters who have gotten Trump to this point want precisely the opposite, so the energy might drain out.

    It’s like Rubio thinking that everyone wanted him to get down in the gutter with Trump, and then when he did he realized that the only thing anyone at all liked about him was the boyish boy scout oh he’s just like my grandson thing, and now even that was gone.

  107. 107.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Piece of advice, don’t ever say that to a woman to her face, your hawt for your age

    Yup. Like saying “You’re pretty smart for a girl” or “For a black person, you speak very well.” Pompous and patronizing.

  108. 108.

    Aleta

    @jl: He’s reminding me of a boa constrictor who’s too stuffed on steaks to bother springing onto the beady rodent to his left.

  109. 109.

    gene108

    Fixed the futon frame in my living room. One of the arms was falling apart. Had to hammer part of it together, but foolishly forgot to put a towel or something over the surface, so if you look closely you can see where I was banging away.

    But damn…feel good to not need new furniture…

    EDIT: Oh yeah..the debate.. the Republicans are scary, vile nativists, who want to destroy whatever hope the working stiff has at a decent retirement…

  113. 113.

    Mary G

    This is dull. I wondered when they would figure out that giving any other candidate mentioned in your answer 30 seconds to respond just meant giving the other guy more time to talk, so it’s better not to mention them. Ben Carson asking for attack in the last debate might have clued them in. But the me, me, me is deadly boring.

  121. 121.

    PsiFighter37

    Rubio definitely jammed the hall with his supporters. Hope he enjoys his last stand.

  125. 125.

    Mandalay

    @jl:

    The Establishment GOPers can talk about cutting and gutting Social Security and Medicare all they want. Make for some good attack ads for the general, if any of them get the nomination.

    Right. But Trump surely has it in the bag now, and he has promised that he wouldn’t touch retirement benefits.

    For all his alleged charisma and marketing skills, the real reason Trump is strolling to victory is that he is not bound to all the absurd GOP tenets that his rivals must blindly follow.

  127. 127.

    jl

    Rubio can get off good responses when he wants too.

    Problem is that Rubio’s move towards sanity is wasted on a lot of this audience.

  130. 130.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    Oh boy. Don’t bring the French if you can’t handle it.

    Of course he also just lost any remaining Republican votes by even trying.

  132. 132.

    jl

    Everything is simple with Trump. Laws don’t let you commit war crimes ‘Expand the laws’! Simple.

  135. 135.

    jl

    @Baud:

    ” I don’t like it when Rubio is the reasonable won. ”

    ‘Won’ in same sentence with ‘Rubio’, I smell a typo.

    And you need to put yourself in the place of the typical GOP primary voter, and from that viewpoint, Rubio is not reasonable at all.

  136. 136.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Baud: I don’t like it when any of those motherfuckers is the reasonable one. It’s not entertaining. ::Continues to pout. And to drink::

  140. 140.

    jl

    Cruz is such a contemptible ass, I’d like listening to his inconsistent incoherent smarmy pitches except he’ll probably lose the nomination, and all his total and miserable fail won’t be available for the general election.

  142. 142.

    Keith P.

    I want to see a Jewish moderator ask Donald Trump when was the last time he has loathed himself.

  145. 145.

    Mandalay

    Deluded Cruz is bragging he would “rip up the deal with Iran” as though it mattered.

    The train is leaving. President Cruz could stay on or jump off, but he couldn’t derail the train.

  146. 146.

    Felonius Monk

    I’m going to put on my hip boots. These guys are spreading so much bullshit that I feel I’m being suffocated.

    Please, God/FSM, lightning bolts now.

  147. 147.

    Dream On

    Trump speaks the language of annihilation, both he and Cruz. Honestly makes me want to cry hearing this. I promise you that the most unbalanced in our society are hearing this loud and clear… bad year ahead.

    quick sample:
    1. CLASSIFICATION: All cultures have categories to distinguish people into “us and them” by ethnicity, race, religion, or nationality: German and Jew, Hutu and Tutsi. Bipolar societies that lack mixed categories, such as Rwanda and Burundi, are the most likely to have genocide. […]

    3. DEHUMANIZATION: One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects or diseases. Dehumanization overcomes the normal human revulsion against murder. At this stage, hate propaganda in print and on hate radios is used to vilify the victim group.

  149. 149.

    jl

    Is the self-appointed enforcer of reactionary thug loon life Hewitt moderating this sick dog of a debate again?

  152. 152.

    Barbara

    @Mai.naem.mobile: Actually, she was very young when she got married, and started having kids immediately. I think Justin is the oldest, so she is probably more like 65. If you are over 50, you might just barely remember how shocked people were when it was learned that Pierre Trudeau got married more or less secretly and the bride was only just out of her teens.

  153. 153.

    Betty Cracker

    Christ. Kasich cites service w/ Rummy at the Pentagon after 9/11 as a foreign policy credential.

  161. 161.

    PsiFighter37

    The Cuba stuff is so passe. Only the old-timer Cubans in Miami will think this is a good stand. Everyone else will think it’s a joke.

  164. 164.

    Keith P.

    Haha, Bash asks Trump, “Just to clarify, would you continue relations with Cuba or not?” Trump: “I would want a good deal.” Crowd: “-laughter-“

  170. 170.

    gene108

    How can people live with this level of paranoia that Cruz has that he thinks Iranians want to murder us all…

    That kind of paranoia should be considered a mental illness.

  171. 171.

    Gin & Tonic

    @SiubhanDuinne: Like saying “You’re pretty smart for a girl”

    I say that to my wife from time to time. It never gets the laugh I think it should.

  172. 172.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    Three years is one of the longest negotiations Trump has ever seen, guess he didn’t know about the negotiations over the Ambassador Hotel between the LA school board and Trump.

  174. 174.

    jl

    I get angry with HRC when she occasionally resorts to cheesy debating tricks. But she only does that only occasionally these days, and if it doesn’t work she can come back with a respectable response.

    But cheesy debating tricks are Cruz’ whole world. I think Cruz is just a walking collection of dishonest cheesy debating tricks. Trump just stomped all over Cruz on his cheesy tricks, and I’m not sure Cruz even understood it.

  176. 176.

    Baud

    If you asked me which candidate would be most likely to start WWIII, I would not have chosen Kasich.

    I would have been wrong.

  180. 180.

    Mandalay

    Grandpa Kasich claims that “our friends around the world” are baffled by our warming relationship with Cuba.

    Possibly the biggest lie in this debate, which has been full of lies.

  183. 183.

    debbie

    @Mandalay:

    The train is leaving.

    Are you sure it’s a train and not the bus Kasich says will run you over if you’re not on board with his agenda?

  185. 185.

    Keith P.

    @Mandalay: He’s definitely been working with a drama coach in attempts to enhance his likeability. He inserts these weird moments where he goes from regular serious-Kasich to jovial-Kasich-next-door that is somewhat jarring, like a valley of uncanniness.

  187. 187.

    Baud

    Haha. A Jimmy Carter reference. An oldie but goodie. But five points from Cruz for not saying “History’s Greatest Monster.”

  193. 193.

    jl

    Trump is smarter than the other GOPers and probably the moderators. And a bit quicker on is feet. That is not saying much, it is saying very little, but it is enough, along with fact that Trump is not bound by idiotic CW political conventions, for Trump to dominate these debates. Edit: meaning he was good at stomping all over Tapper’s lame attempt to manufacture a win-the-morning gotcha question on Trumps favorable comments on Russian and Chinese authoritarianism.

    Too bad he chickened out of the debate with Sanders. It will be interesting to see how he does against one the Dems in front of a sane audience.

  194. 194.

    Mandalay

    Tapper weirdly claimed that Trump was approving of Putin by calling him a strong leader.

    So Trump used Tapper to mop the floor.

  197. 197.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Mandalay: “Our friends around the world” usually means “the Likudniks.” Not sure if that applies in this case though.

  207. 207.

    jl

    @FlipYrWhig:

    “Our friends around the world” according to GOP are countries who say ‘How high’ when the US commands ‘jump’. Too bad it is an imaginary world.

    So much sickening raving lunacy in the last segment of the debate.

  209. 209.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Baud:

    She and her family have been travelling in France, Italy, and Greece. Not sure when they get back.

  211. 211.

    jl

    Gravitas test coming up for Trump.

    Edit: I guess Trump thinks lying about his rallies being invaded by violent liberal thugs will help with the gravitas and civility thing.

  212. 212.

    James E Powell

    @Anne Laurie:

    Isn’t he the current – and likely the last – corporate press/media anti-Trump darling? He’s planning on a big win in Ohio that will stun everyone and cause massive shifts in support

  215. 215.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    AFAIK she’s fine. She’s been posting some wonderful photos from Paris, Rome, and Athens on FB. Seems to be taking in every iconic architectural structure.

  219. 219.

    jl

    I like it when the GOP debates get so stupid, I cannot imagine general election voters not laughing.out loud. We are in one of those episodes now.

  222. 222.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Baud:

    I think she’s actually posted a few comments since she’s been in Europe. But it’s like 4:30 in the morning where she is. I’d cut her a little time-zone slack.

  223. 223.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    OT: Got email that my camera has been converted to full spectrum and should be back in a few days, I’m jazzed!

  225. 225.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    I’m going to give her a stern talking to when she gets back.

    Be careful. I think she could snap you like a twig.

  227. 227.

    jl

    My grandma was born just as them flying planes were getting off the ground, and I sat with her one evening as we watched a clip of the moon landing, and my grandma said “What a bunch of damn foolishness. Why do those fools want to go up to that dump anyway? What’s the point of it? I can’t figure it out. World going to damn fool hell is what.” That’s what my grandma said.

  231. 231.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    @Barbara: I looked her up on wikipedia.and,yeah, you’re right – shes 67. I’m too young for the early Trudeau stuff. For some reason I thought Justin was the middle kid. Justin’s own family looks like a frickin’ Ralph Lauren ad.

  235. 235.

    jl

    I’m out, this GOP debate has entered the terminal unbearably stupid phase.
    I better get out before the humorous fun folksy personality questions start, since they make me gag.

    Oh, but nice that Trump won’t promise to self-fund for the general.

  236. 236.

    cmorenc

    @Baud:

    I’d build a wall between the U.S. and China and make China pay for it.

    China already *did* build a wall between the U.S. and China to prevent us from entering China from the North and West…not only that, but they had the brilliant foresight to know we were going to be a great threat in the future and build it centuries before the US even existed, rather than waiting until waaay too late like Trump’s proposed wall with Mexico. China is even getting us to pay for it via the huge trade imbalance in their favor with the US (or so the Donald might say).

  237. 237.

    Ken

    @Mandalay:

    Kasich claims that “our friends around the world” are baffled by our warming relationship with Cuba. Possibly the biggest lie in this debate.

    No, that’s true, just not in the way he meant it. They’re wondering what took us so long. Also why we bothered with the embargo, since no one else followed along.

    Now that I think about it, about the same questions raised when the Republicans talk about tearing up the Iran deal. OK, but all it means is that U.S. firms won’t be selling to Iran – the Europeans, Russians, and Chinese will.

  239. 239.

    Mandalay

    Accepting that he is an pompous asshole who is full of shit, Kasich has achieved ten times more in politics that the other three candidates combined. Rubio’s resume is paper thin, Cruz’s achievements amount to a brown stain on a Kleenex, and Trump has never even been a politician.

  240. 240.

    gene108

    I have a great question for the Republican debates: Other than Ronald Reagan, name another Republican President, since the end of WW2, who you admire and why.

  241. 241.

    Anne Laurie

    @James E Powell:

    He’s planning on a big win in Ohio that will stun everyone and cause massive shifts in support

    He’s been ‘uncharacteristically’ cranky tonight (of course Kay would tell us he’s always cranky but he’s been better at hiding it during the on-camera national debates). I think he’s given up on winning the nom, but figures he can still be The Adult VP — Biden to the Trump/Cruz… president. (Some comparisons I just cannot bear to put in pixels.)

    Of course I don’t see either Trump or Cruz paying Kasich any attention, tonight or any other time, but we all need our fantasies to get through the day.

  242. 242.

    Baud

    The canned nature of Cruz’s rhetoric takes a while to get a handle on, but it’s definitely not natural.

  248. 248.

    Mnemosyne

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I think she means Apu from “The Simpsons.”

    Also, I have to make you sad again — it will not work out for the hero of my book to be Canadian. He’s going to have to be American after all. I didn’t realize that the British blocked all refugees from the French Revolution from entering Canada.

  249. 249.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mnemosyne:

    I didn’t either. Although I should have, given the ill feeling between the two countries.

    Appu is an Indian film, which leads me to think the kitteh was referring to it. But I may be one of the few people on the planet who has never watched The Simpsons, so whichever it is I’m equally ignorant.

  250. 250.

    Mnemosyne

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Great Britain took in a huge number of refugees, but apparently the authorities in Canada were nervous about the ongoing border tensions with the United States combining with revolutionary fervor from France. They allowed some priests in, but no families, so my characters are probably going to Philadelphia instead.

  251. 251.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @Mandalay:

    Grandpa Kasich claims that “our friends around the world” are baffled by our warming relationship with Cuba

    No, they’re worried that the cost of having a holiday there will go up once the Americans show up, and that Floridian car dealers will buy up all the ’57 Cadillacs and Chevys on the cheap.

  252. 252.

    Mnemosyne

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Also, too, after reading about the tragic life of Charlotte Stuart, Duchess of Albany, I understand the anti-clericalism of the French Revolution a lot better. Apparently a nun having a long-term affair with a bishop and having three children with him was just one of those things that people expected bishops to do.

    ETA: Not just a bishop — an archbishop, one step below a cardinal.

    ETA2: Sorry, she was not a nun, she just grew up living in convents since there weren’t many other options for women in those days.

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