Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The words do not have to be perfect.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

The revolution will be supervised.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

No one could have predicted…

I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Bark louder, little dog.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

The willow is too close to the house.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

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184Comments

  6. 6.

    Davebo

    Can I say that as much as I love all the other front pagers it’s awesome to have Sarah back!

    Go girl! (I mean, brilliant and insightful female…) ;0)

  7. 7.

    pat

    So the donald will be beaten into tiny bits by two women..

    Jeez, I hope he doesn’t take it out on his wife…..
    eta, yes it sounds awful but I leave it out there anyway Can not imagine being married to that …… person.

  9. 9.

    Davebo

    @pat:

    Jeez, I hope he doesn’t take it out on his wife…..

    Don’t worry. Immigrants will do the jobs Americans won’t. And if Melania decides she’s had enough and wants to bail and cash in on whatever the prenup offers we could have “President Bachelor” on reality TV.

    It’ll be huuuge!

  11. 11.

    Sarah, Proud and Tall

    @Corner Stone:

    She spent a considerable amount of time comprehensively and intelligently outlining and critiquing the Republican strategy to attack the integrity of the federal judiciary, its judges and our rule of law, by refusing to confirm judicial nominations and slandering appointees and sitting judges, and you just got “childish name calling”?

    Sure, the childish name calling bit was fun, but if that’s all you got out of the speech, you need your eyes and ears tested.

    ETA: Or that was actual sarcasm and I didn’t notice. It’s hard to tell because you’re so grumpy all the time.

  15. 15.

    Benw

    Donald Trump, you’ve been served a Warren for your arrest…. For being a flaming dickbag.

    The Warren Serve

  21. 21.

    guachi

    @Sarah, Proud and Tall:

    She spent a considerable amount of time comprehensively and intelligently outlining and critiquing the Republican strategy to attack the integrity of the federal judiciary, its judges and our rule of law, by refusing to confirm judicial nominations and slandering appointees and sitting judges, and you just got “childish name calling”?

    Corner Stone is making fun of me. I think. I liked the opening of the speech because it did exactly what you said. Then turned it off at the name calling part. I thought it didn’t work and didn’t fit with the rest of the speech.

    “The judge is a disgrace? No, you’re a disgrace.”
    “The judge should be ashamed? No, you should be ashamed.”

    It sounded about one step above a second grader saying “I’m stupid? No, you’re stupid.” “I know you are, but what am I.”

    I just don’t get the love for stooping to Trump’s level and using the same insults he uses.

  26. 26.

    Corner Stone

    @guachi: Because those lines were 3% of her blistering ass speech. That’s why, you fucking tool.

    Ohm heavens. Allow me to locate that newfangled device that rotates these four lettered channel names.

  28. 28.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @guachi: If you can’t see how it fit with her general point about justice, you weren’t really paying attention. She was speaking to the “Anti-Federalist Society.”

  29. 29.

    Kropadope

    Judge Curiel is following the word of the law rather than bend it to suit the interests of one rich and powerful, but oh-so-fragile defendant.

    Damn, I love my Senator.

  31. 31.

    Sarah, Proud and Tall

    @guachi:

    Eh. Warren is the one who can give principled, content-packed, law nerd attack speeches scattered with enough Trump-bait insults that he gets pissed and says even more stupid shit. The insults are an integral part of the plan.

    I’m with lamh36 on this –

    I think that is the strategy…Liz as attack dog, Biden as conciliator for those poss GOP who just cant back Trump, Michelle O for her high regard with female voters (Black and White, but esp Black women, most consistent and loyal Dem voters, right)…

    POTUS to throw punches and remind, defend, and just basically knock GOP over head with his accomplishments, plus I think he REALLY wants to be able to land punches on Trump that he couldn’t do during the height of the birther bullshit Trump was steering, both cause of just not “fighting down” as Prez, but also he had the 2012 re-election campaign to worry about. Now no elections, and NMFTG.

    that leaves, the candidate herself, who probably, can’t get too down in gutter with Trump but who can still twist the knives that Warren, Biden and POTUS will leave in Trump’s side.

  36. 36.

    Punchy

    FWIW, Jeff Sessions is the off-shore betting fav for Trump’s VP. Julio (Julian? Bueller?) Castro best odds for Dems, but its much more open (not a strong favorite). HRC is -300 to win. Thats titties.

  37. 37.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    Los Angeles Times Verified account
    ‏@latimes

    Bernie Sanders has nothing to say about Hillary Clinton at D.C. rally

    Such a small man. He can’t shine PBO’s shoes.

  38. 38.

    Redshift

    @Sarah, Proud and Tall: I think Obama will remind people of his accomplishments and really the troops very effectively, but I think he’ll leave the righteous anger to people like Warren.

    His way of driving Trump insane is by mocking him (starting with the Correspondents Dinner.) Trump hates that, and lashes out. And it works especially well because Obama smoothly does what is just good-natured ribbing, but Trump is so thin-skinned he goes ballistic and looks like the nutcase he is.

  41. 41.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Redshift: There was a guy(first Senator to endorse HRC) on LOD who can mock folk pretty well, in fact he used to do it professionally.

  43. 43.

    NotMax

    Open Thread, so – couple of tidbits.

    1) Say howdy to Nihonium, Moscovium, Tennessine and Oganesson.

    2) Time for a fundraiser? Ideal spot for Coleville*, a quiet retreat for BJers.

    Nobody likes moving into a new home, only to find it full of bugs left over from the last occupant.

    But if that was the only drawback standing between you and ownership over an entire town, you might be willing to deal with it.

    A former town for American spies in West Virginia has gone up for auction at a minimum bid of US$1 million.… Source

    *Coleburg? Cole Corners? Balloonville? Tunchtown?

  46. 46.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @redshirt:

    Sad, and. finally, irrelevant. Obama gave him a good send off to work with today, and he’s just too bitter to act magnanimously. One more week of putting up with him is a small price to pay for the others coming off the sidelines to help though, instead of having to listen to his sniping and whining.

  47. 47.

    burnspbesq

    @guachi:

    I just don’t get the love for stooping to Trump’s level and using the same insults he uses.

    There are probably 40-50 million potential voters who can’t function on any higher level than that.

  48. 48.

    Kropadope

    @Redshift: He has also done the best job so far of arguing that not knowing what you’re talking about and specifically not having any policy understanding is not a good thing.

  51. 51.

    Sarah, Proud and Tall

    @Redshift:

    Oh absolutely. Warren does the straight out insults. Potus is much more effective with a wry comment, a glance at the audience and a chuckle. Trump’s head will explode.

  53. 53.

    redshirt

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Yep. He needs to be shuffled off the stage and marginalized. He brings nothing to the coming battle and in fact he’s more likely to stab Clinton in the back first chance he got.

    To Heck with Bernie Sanders. Hope a real Dem takes his Senate seat ASAP.

  58. 58.

    Matt McIrvin

    I won’t buy unless they throw in the scary balloon thing that chases people.

  61. 61.

    Feebog

    This is getting embarrassing. As surrogates Trump has Jan Brewer, Scotty Brown and Pam Bondi. Clinton has POTUS, FLOTUS, VP Biden, Warren, B. Clinton, Al Franken, Barney Frank, Amy Klobachar, Sherrod Brown, Barbara Boxer, Harry Reid, it’s like bringing an atomic bomb to a knife fight.

  62. 62.

    SW1

    Warren delivers a pretty good imitation of McConnell’s affectation of gravitas. Mitch probably no likey.

  63. 63.

    TaMara (HFG)

    @Gin & Tonic: My FB was filled with all kinds of California drama – whining about voting irregularity, voters not showing up, confusion at voting locations. On and on. Somehow, if Sanders can pull out the win there, we’ll all be feeling the Bern. I honestly do not get it.

  71. 71.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @TaMara (HFG):

    voters not showing up

    Huh? Are they proposing that the State of California go to poeple’s homes and drag them to the polls?

  75. 75.

    Kropadope

    @Gin & Tonic: The public statements of all three; Obama, Clinton, and Sanders; say that Sanders is on board to help Clinton and the Democrats beat Trump and the Republicans this Fall. No equivocation or caveats, Sanders’s position is the same as it has been from day one of his campaign. The Republicans have to go down and we need a revolution at the ballot box to put in a new Democratic Congress supporting a new Democratic president. ETA: Not once, but in every election.

  83. 83.

    Major Major Major Major

    Sanders seems to be cooling off now. This’ll be officially over by Wednesday I think, maybe Tuesday night. Meantime he needs to rein in his surrogates.

    I wonder if he was living in an ‘unskewed polls’ parallel universe about California though. If that’s the case, his actions this week make perfect sense.

  84. 84.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @TaMara (HFG):

    Who would you rather go to war with against Trump’s orc army – Obama, the Obama coalition and the power of the evil Democratic Establishment, or Sanders and his petulant Berniebros who need to be led by the hand to vote? Sanders and his supporters caring about California shows how much he’s lost the plot.

  86. 86.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @Redshift: The Obama campaign pitch is going to be ‘hey, you voted for me, and I’ve been okay at this job, haven’t I, and I like Hillary, and we have a lot in common. That guy with the weird hair, not so much.’

    This is not an election about converting Republicans. It is not an election about ‘persuading independents’, as much as the press will make it out to be so. It is about making sure that every Obama ’08 and ’12 voter shows up for ’16.

    And Sanders is finishing the game. It’s not a hockey game where if you’re down in the third period you knock someone’s teeth out; it’s not a basketball game where you switch to garbage time; it’s more like the NFL in a fourth quarter 18 points down and half the crowd has gone home but you’re not going to stop competing. Let him finish the game in DC and then we’ll talk.

  88. 88.

    Kropadope

    @Emma: There’s this thing called the internet where you can look up what’s known as his “record.”
    You’ll find he has been fighting for equal opportunity for all people since before he was in politics. He made major improvements to the city of Burlington as mayor, has reliably supported the Democratic party’s initiatives in both houses of Congress, has had the foresight to point out the flaws in these initiatives, has had the pragmatism to vote for these initiatives when they’re an improvement on the status quo, then went right to work fixing the shortcomings of these very same bills. He hasn’t been the most effective legislator ever, but he has done incredibly well for himself considering he’s an independent.

  89. 89.

    TheMightyTrowel

    She’s my senator, so i just sent her office an email to say how proud I was to have her represent me in the US Senate. Never hurts to send an unalloyed positive note and might make one of the intern email-monkey’s smile.

  91. 91.

    amk

    Don’t something like 3/5th of the states have early voting for GE? I hope hillz campaign is doing GOTV to bank these votes under the radar, like in CA.

  95. 95.

    Major Major Major Major

    @amk: Don’t worry, they will. She has Obama’s team, and they did that in 2008 and 2012. It’s super important for Dems, especially weekend voting, since so much of the Dem base is working-class brown people. (This is why weekend voting is the first thing to go when there’s a Republican SoS in a swing state.)

  96. 96.

    seaboogie

    @AdamK: Great minds…just scrolling back. I think the caps and exclamation mark really sell it, though…..

    Warren has a way of getting really almost snidely over the top in her voice when she is wanting to punch Trump in the kidneys, a quality that I appreciate.

  104. 104.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: Right, what does that have to do with anything I said there other than it being the context in which Bernie and Hillary and Barack are all saying that Bernie intends to help Democrats win their elections this Fall?

  108. 108.

    amk

    @Kropadope: He did the least possible minimum decent thing, so? Self absorbed as he is, he has zero sense of occasion. But, enough about him. Moving on to better and smarter things.

  110. 110.

    Major Major Major Major

    @TaMara (HFG): Yeah, that first link mentioned “Rigged voting machines”… let’s stick with the LA Times.

    Sounds like the problems were the registration/party-switching deadline being so close to the election, and the unusually high level of interest this time around especially with new voters (regarding the updated lists not making it on time, etc.).

  111. 111.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    The crowd at Bernie’s rally in DC is all white. Probably bussed in with the last of the $200 million he raised. That’s some revolution.

  112. 112.

    burnspbesq

    @redshirt:

    Sad.

    Agreed, but that appears to be the reality. Even nincompoops get to vote, and you have to reach them on the level on which they operate.

  115. 115.

    seaboogie

    @jl: Nah, that stuff is descriptive…for impact you need to sell her agency with name plus impactful onomatopoeiac word….so I say NancySmash yes, and also ElizaBOOM, which also speaks to the youngs as a current reference a la mic-drop – in the parlance of our day.

  120. 120.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @NotMax: That was the status quo, you have to get a permit from the Sheriff’s department. In most counties it’s quite difficult.

  121. 121.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: My point is that all the professional politicos are saying that Bernie is on board. Emma won’t believe him without “acts,” but he has decades of acts that also support the idea that he will support the Democrats this Fall. Why you are trying to make this an argument about something else entirely, I will pretend to not understand because my primary theory on why has been debated to exhaustion and anyone who will honestly consider the idea already has.

  122. 122.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @TaMara (HFG): If you’re too stupid to register to vote and too stupid to find your fucking polling place; I’m afraid there’s not much that can be done for you.

    We have a party here in CA called the “American Independent Party”(it’s George Wallace’s old party) that some morons thought meant that they were pure as a snowflake(find some of those in CA in June), because heaven forbid they’re register as one of those slimy and compromised Democrats.

  123. 123.

    NotMax

    Brings out some salient points, even if only skims the surface.

    Why Democrats divided may be a good thing for the party

    Related:

    Despite their numbers, only 46 percent of Millennials, 18-to-34 year olds, are likely to vote. They make up just 17 percent of likely voters in California.

    That’s not unusual, as voters tend to participate more in elections as they grow older. Baby boomers today have higher rates of voter turnout than Millennials, but boomers came out to vote at about the same rate as Millennials when they were the same age, according to data from the Center for Information and Research on Civic Learning and Engagement, a nonpartisan research institute at Tufts University in Boston.

    “The reality is youth are very small percentage of the vote,” says Professor Leighley. “That’s true even in [presidential] election years … [and] even under the most generous assumptions.”

    Still, Millennials did show up at polling stations across Los Angeles on primary day – making it more likely that they will vote again. Source

  124. 124.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kropadope: Then there is your record, which includes your statements that you are here to be an asshole/troll. How am I to resolve this?

  125. 125.

    burnspbesq

    @Kropadope:

    he has decades of acts that also support the idea that he will support the Democrats this Fall

    Which are, quite appropriately, being discounted because of his behavior over the past 13 months.

  126. 126.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @BillinGlendaleCA: And “rigged voting machines”? We use ink-a-vote in LA county. A “voting machine” is a card with numbers and circles for each number. It’s inserted into a device that has laminated cards with little holes next to the names and you put the little pin in the hole for your preferred candidate. That’s the “machine”. How one rigs that, I have no clue. I’m not sure what they use in other counties.

  127. 127.

    burnspbesq

    @NotMax:

    I heard something on KCRW yesterday to the effect that preliminary exit polling suggests that in the CA primary, the folks who actually showed up to vote skewed older than expected. It seems almost self-evident that only a relatively small percentage of voters who registered over the last few months actually showed up.

    Sen. Sanders apparently doesn’t get Alec Baldwin’s Rolex; he’s not a closer.

  128. 128.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: I have resorted tio that with my interactions with specific people here ho are, in my mind, being every bit as assholish. Is it worse that I’m doing it because I’m trying while bean asshole comes to people like you naturally?

    Seriously, you do Omnes Omnibusthis whenever I try to play nice, even in the beginning when I was always playing nice. You throw out red herrings or twist my words or flat out lie about what I or someone else is saying. I get along with people here fine for a decade and I’m suddenly pissed off most of the time and you don’t stop to wonder why.

    I say Bernie intends to support the Democratic primary winner in the Fall and I point to his record and statements from several high-ranking Democrats to support the idea. Your response, “he lost the primary.” Not only is that completely useless and off-the-point, it was designed to be deliberately antagonistic. This sort of shit was going on for months before I decided I wanted to rip on people who were reliably being assholes. You have been one of the worst of the bunch.

  129. 129.

    Anne Laurie

    @NotMax: Green Balloons, WV. I swear, if I had the money I’d buy it… but I wouldn’t move out of New England.

  130. 130.

    MobiusKlein

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I have direct folks I know in SoCal that had all sorts of snafus voting this time around.
    Not some tinfoil hat level thing, just that shit happens sometimes.

  134. 134.

    Matt McIrvin

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I think one of the theories that was going around in past cycles was that people could rig the tabulators that counted and aggregated votes, even with optical-scan paper ballots. Of course you’d have to make sure you don’t create a close or implausible situation such that somebody asks for a hand recount.

    Greg Palast did some good work on vote tampering and suppression for a while, but sometimes he goes a bit off the deep end by interpreting numbers as dramatically as he can. He’ll find interesting evidence that some people might have been stricken from the voter rolls improperly, but then he’ll add up the numbers as if every single one of those people was a legit voter who would have shown up and voted exactly the same way, and cite that as the consequence of the vote-tampering.

    Anyway, right now, he’s claiming that a lot of Sanders voters had their votes nullified because they were no-party-preference voters who didn’t say the correct phrase when they exchanged their NPP ballots for crossover ballots (he plays up the claim that you had to say some exact magic words or it wouldn’t work). But at least he puts a lot of the blame on the Sanders campaign for not making the effort to educate them:

    http://www.gregpalast.com/california-stolen-sanders-right-nowspecial-bulletin-greg-palast/

  136. 136.

    jacy

    The thing about the “name calling” — it’s the best way to get the yam to sputter. He’s going to spend so much time painstakingly crafting barely-legible twitter retorts to every single perceived slight, he won’t have time for anything else. Every time someone, especially Warren, pokes him, it pays uncountable dividends. Hell, he’ll probably spontaneously combust long before election eve……

  137. 137.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: Not true. I come here to get views on the news and links on interesting stories that I may not see otherwise. I choose to antagonize particular people who themselves are being constantly antagonistic on the occasions where reading 100s of uncalled for “Bernie and his supporters suck” posts begins to wear on me.

    For a supposed lawyer, you seem to have a major problem with distinctions. This isn’t even a fine nuance. I have been coming here for a long time without being deemed a troll, so obviously that’s not my purpose in coming here. If I’m trolling a particular person, it’s because I think that person his or herself is demonstrating troll-like behavior and I am counter trolling.

    If I were coming to troll I wouldn’t have reduced my time spent reading and posting as much as I have. The reason I’m taking longer, more frequent breaks from this site is because I’m tired of fighting people.

    ETA: There was a period of two weeks where all I was doing was deliberately trolling, but that is long since over.

  139. 139.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kropadope: Okay, a different approach for when you wake up: Chill out. The results are the results. I think you believe you are a precious flower. I have no reason to try again to convince you that any Dem is better than any GOPer. I’ve tried. If you can’t see it, you get only my contempt.

  140. 140.

    seaboogie

    @Kropadope: I’m thinking that “trolling” has such a derogatory charge, that except perhaps for the truly hardcore actual trolls, we might take a cue from @TildaSwinton’sBaldCap and use #pancakes. Everybody likes #pancakes – even the ones who prefer #waffles. It’s all good breakfast carbs that benefit from succoring sucre of syrup….

  143. 143.

    TriassicSands

    @Sarah, Proud and Tall:

    Senator Warren demeaned herself and her office by resorting to childish name calling. After all, Donald Trump would never resort to anything as immature and crass as calling political opponents names. Clinton will obviously have to rein in Warren, so she (Clinton) and Mr. Trump can carry on the kind of high-minded campaign that is Trump’s forte.

  144. 144.

    Luthe

    Jumping late onto the Warren name train:

    Liz Flare

    (from Trump’s POV): Liz unFair

  146. 146.

    Anne Laurie

    @Kropadope:

    My point is that all the professional politicos are saying that Bernie is on board… he has decades of acts that also support the idea that he will support the Democrats this Fall.

    According to Barney Frank, Bernie has decades of bitching & grandstanding & demanding special concessions before he gets on board, usually, and quietly votes for the bill he’s been hissy-fitting over. This is why the two of them haven’t gotten along in decades — according to Barney, Sanders wasted everyones’ energy & opportunities on showboating; according to Bernie, Frank was a corrupt sellout who kept trading favors for incremental advances when he should’ve been calling for REVOLUTION!

    Barney Frank was a gay man from a mostly blue-collar district who never had the luxury of choosing “principles” over politics. He has said, very explicitly, that he sympathized with President Obama having to be 150% as good as any other President just to get more than 50% credit for his accomplishments. Bernie Sanders, despite all his poormouthing, has had a lot more freedom to polish his purity trophies in public. The two men were never going to love each other — too many personality traits in common — but the difference between the voting demographics of Burlington VT and Newton MA shaped a particularly bitter ‘working’ relationship.

    The people at the top of the Dem org charts are now congratulating Sanders for his ‘very generous’ choice to concede, because they’re the grown-ups and they don’t want him niggling about some perceived slight in front of the media any longer. None of us here are in that elite group, so we’re free to grouse about alte kackers and their special snowflake cadres.

  147. 147.

    TriassicSands

    @guachi:

    That’s what surrogates are for in campaigns. Clinton absolutely should not do it. Plus, I don’t think she could pull it off nearly as well as Warren did.

    I think you’ll find a lot of Democrats heartened by someone standing up to Trump and crushing him at his own game. Now, don’t get me wrong, nothing Warren said will make a bit of difference with Trump supporters or even people leaning to Trump. However, Trump is so thin-skinned that he may not be able to let Warren get away with her attacks and that will mean he’ll be spending precious campaign time going after someone who isn’t even a candidate. And if he’s spending all his time calling two women names, that won’t help him at all.

  148. 148.

    AxelFoley

    @Sarah, Proud and Tall:

    I’m with lamh36 on this –

    I think that is the strategy…Liz as attack dog, Biden as conciliator for those poss GOP who just cant back Trump, Michelle O for her high regard with female voters (Black and White, but esp Black women, most consistent and loyal Dem voters, right)…

    POTUS to throw punches and remind, defend, and just basically knock GOP over head with his accomplishments, plus I think he REALLY wants to be able to land punches on Trump that he couldn’t do during the height of the birther bullshit Trump was steering, both cause of just not “fighting down” as Prez, but also he had the 2012 re-election campaign to worry about. Now no elections, and NMFTG.

    that leaves, the candidate herself, who probably, can’t get too down in gutter with Trump but who can still twist the knives that Warren, Biden and POTUS will leave in Trump’s side.

    Death by a thousand cuts. I LOVE it.

  150. 150.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Okay, a different approach for when you wake up: Chill out. The results are the results. I think you believe you are a precious flower. I have no reason to try again to convince you that any Dem is better than any GOPer. I’ve tried. If you can’t see it, you get only my contempt.

    You see? this is my exact problem. My issue is not with the primary results, no matter how hard you keep trying to make it about that. I plan on supporting Clinton in the GE, which I have made clear several times. I’d even likely support her in the primary if it were held today. My problem is with the way a handful of Clinton supporters turn every thread into a slag on Bernie and his supporters marathon.

    I haven’t said a word criticising the results of the primaries ever or criticizing Hillary today. When I have criticized Hillary in the past, I did so based on policy and politics which I supported with quotes and voting records. That I did so shouldn’t mean that I need to immediately recite a loyalty pledge to support the Democratic nominee. Hell, on this thread I was initially trying real hard to stay positive, even after your first couple of deliberate provocations.

    That you can’t distinguish between my discomfort with the miasma of assholishness that has settled over this site and lack of support for the Democratic nominee is your problem. Frankly, it makes me wonder how you passed fourth grade reading comprehension, let alone the bar exam. What you wrote which I quoted above is framed around lies that you and a handful of people have refused to let go of for a year.

  151. 151.

    hkedi [Kang T.Q.]

    It’s been said a couple of times incompletely in earlier posts, but I do like “The Warren Terror”

    I like the pun and how it will gall conservatives.

    :edited to avoid mis-understanding.:

  152. 152.

    Kropadope

    @Anne Laurie:

    According to Barney Frank, Bernie has decades of bitching & grandstanding & demanding special concessions before he gets on board, usually, and quietly votes for the bill he’s been hissy-fitting over.

    How dare he try to negotiate? He wants to improve the bills he’s voting on, what does he think he is? A Senator? Bernie should sit down, shut up, and do what his betters tell him like a good little sheep.

  155. 155.

    Felanius Kootea

    @TheMightyTrowel: Good point. I bet most people don’t think to thank their representatives when they do a great job (I know I don’t, but I should).

  156. 156.

    Soylent Green

    @Kropadope: The thing is, Krope, this election is not about you.

    Your feelings don’t matter any more than mine do.

    We are not Hillary or Bernie supporters anymore, we are Democrats. This election is no longer about which group of primary voters is the most moral or rational or better looking, it’s about saving America from a motherfucking disaster.

    So shut the fuck up already about your feelings.

  157. 157.

    TriassicSands

    I support Clinton over Sanders for the nomination. I would have preferred it if Sanders had dropped out weeks ago.

    That said, I strongly suspect that the realist in HIllary Clinton isn’t particularly bothered by what Sanders is doing. I supported Obama in 2008 and I remember Clinton’s campaign as being quite nasty — far nastier than Sanders has been this year — including some disgusting racist crap (especially in South Carolina). In fact, when Clinton lost in SC, she and/or her campaign downplayed the loss because of all the black voters in SC and pointed out that Jesse Jackson also won the SC primary when he ran.

    From The Progressive:

    And sure enough, after the embarrassing loss, the Clinton campaign tried to dismiss the results by stressing the black vote that Obama got and by mentioning that Jesse Jackson had won South Carolina in 1988, as well.

    True to form, Hillary Clinton didn’t even give a concession speech, demonstrating again the haughtiness of someone who believes she’s entitled to the White House, someone who won’t deign to properly acknowledge this upstart Obama who stands in her way.

    Clinton stayed in the race until the bitter end, which is what Sanders has promised to do. Criticizing him for doing what he said he’d do seems utterly pointless.

    What matters now is not how soon Sanders throws in the towel, but how sincere his support of Clinton is once he does.

    Since Sanders has said he would stay in to the end — and that means taking it to the convention — why not wait and see what he does when he reaches the point where his own words require him to do everything he can to defeat Donald Trump?

    The constant disparaging of Sanders and his supporters here is a waste of time and counterproductive at best. Clinton needs a substantial number of Sanders’ supporters to win in November. She knows that and she’s going to court them in a way that maximizes getting that support. She certainly won’t behave the way so many people here behave.

    Sorry, but I don’t understand the need to call people names, accuse them of being trolls and sock puppets just for offering opinions about Bernie Sanders.

  158. 158.

    Kropadope

    @Soylent Green:

    Your feelings don’t matter any more than mine do.

    This is another one of the Clique’s favorite lies. No, this is not about my feelings no matter how much you insist it is.

    It’s about honesty and culture. If you think it’s OK to defame people who disagree with you and tell half the people who voted in Democratic primaries that they have no business voting for your candidates, that’s on you.

  160. 160.

    MattF

    Charlie Pierce calls her “Senator Professor Warren”, which is pretty good.

    ETA: Lizzie Warren took an axe
    Gave The Donald forty whacks
    When she saw what she had done
    Gave him another forty one.

  161. 161.

    Kropadope

    @amk: Right, but why are my complaints about assholes mocked while hundreds and hundreds of posts complaining about a different set of assholes are encouraged, at this point even by the FPers? Of course it’s because the assholes I’m complaining about are generally agreed with around here; so lies, fabrications, red herrings, etc. are tolerated.

  162. 162.

    dogwood

    @Kropadope:
    You don’t need to keep pointing out Bernie’s record. The whole argument about him never accomplishing anything has never been persuasive to me in the least. If the people who were dead set on picking a senator who really gets things done they’d be begging Patty Murray to run. I didn’t choose Bernie because he doesn’t have the temperment for the presidency. His campaign showed that his policy interests are narrow, and his knowledge is lacking, not unlike most legislators who have the luxury of focusing on the issues they care about most. Presidents don’t have that luxury. A president has a camera in his or her face all day. You can’t look bored or sleepy or disengaged for a single moment. And that’s how Bernie most often looks when he’s not talking. Saying he’s not suited to the job isn’t a personal attack on anyone. Thousands of fine, experienced people with good ideas would be unsuited to the task.

  164. 164.

    TriassicSands

    @dogwood:

    You can’t look bored or sleepy or disengaged for a single moment.

    You must have missed George W. Bush’s presidency. Almost all I remember were the bored, sleepy, and disengaged looks. Maybe that’s just a special case of IOKIYAR.

    Now, if a photo caught the Kenyan Usurper looking bored, well, what a story that would make.

  166. 166.

    dogwood

    @TriassicSands:
    You’re exaggerating. Barack Obama has never had a bad or embarrassing image emerge in 8 years. He’s extraordinarily photogenic and seems to be authentically engaged and present at all times. But he’s definitely the exception. The images that came from the W years were pretty much the same as most presidents. A few real clunkers, but mostly fine otherwise.

  167. 167.

    Kropadope

    @amk:

    Ignoring your last line rant, it’s a effing blog, get a life, dood. You got nothing to prove to anyone.

    Dude, I have a fucking life. I have work, school, friends, and many disparate hobbies. This blog is invaluable to me to pursue many diverse threads of information. I would just like to be able to post without having my intentions impugned or downright lied about and I would like to be able to read without sifting through endless hatred against someone I supported before he lost the primary and his dedicated supporters who are often my friends and family, some of whom I have to try to convince to move to Hillary.

    I plan on voting for Hillary Clinton and I’m speaking up for her in my private life. I’ve read up on her but I’m not vested in her the way I have been other candidates, I’m sorry. If you want to talk about civic responsibility; shouldn’t knowledgeable, outspoken supporters of a candidate make a point of making affirmative cases for their candidate? Not only does it maintain a positive tone, it can help spread information; stats, policies, videos, anecdotes, etc; to the general public and especially less vested but active supporters.

    Now do you think my hardened Bernie friends will be more swayable by my lecturing them on the doxing of election workers or by a story about how beautifully Hillary spoke on Alzheimer’s disease and the stresses of in-home caretakers, with effective ideas to address the shortcomings? These sort of narratives also counter Donald’s “Heartless Hillary” business.

  168. 168.

    different-church-lady

    @Kropadope: You’ll notice I’m not beating you up on this thread.

    That’s because you’re making some sense. But I’d never admit that.

  170. 170.

    dogwood

    @different-church-lady:
    Very few people beat up on him around here, but he ignores them and focuses on the ones who give him a hard time. He’s desperate to be validated by the kool kids on BJ and it’s not gonna happen. I’ve tried to engage him many times, but he doesn’t bite. if you have to call someone a fucking asshole or a paid troll to get their attention, they’re probably not really looking for serious conversation anyway.

  171. 171.

    Applejinx

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Yikes, that’s telling. I continue to think the black vote is worth watching, and good lord has Bernie failed to persuade it. Barring ‘dem darkies ain’t know what’s good for dem selves’, that is a huge tip off that Clinton is better, and Sanders worse/riskier, than the noisy left wants to believe.

    No white faces in DC? Jesus. That is an indictment. I was already supporting Clinton and that still gives me pause.

  172. 172.

    NobodySpecial

    @dogwood: He does have a valid point about the cliquishness of BJ, but he’ll, it’s been that way for years around here. If we don’t celebrate bullies in real life, why do we give them deference here?

  173. 173.

    Kay

    @jacy:

    It will show no one will defend him. The dilemma for Republicans is they can’t defend their nominee. It could get really funny actually. There will be hundreds (literally!w/the House) of Democrats campaigning for Clinton and a gaping void for Trump. The contrast will be huge.

    Yesterday Obama,Warren and Biden were out for Clinton. Trump had his one operative and Michelle Bachmann.

    Months of that.

    Republican electeds have to go out and defend this;

    The actions in total paint a portrait of Trump’s sprawling organization frequently failing to pay small businesses and individuals, then sometimes tying them up in court and other negotiations for years. In some cases, the Trump teams financially overpower and outlast much smaller opponents, draining their resources. Some just give up the fight, or settle for less; some have ended up in bankruptcy or out of business altogether.
    Trump and his daughter Ivanka, in an interview with USA TODAY, shrugged off the lawsuits and other claims of non-payment. If a company or worker he hires isn’t paid fully, the Trumps said, it’s because The Trump Organization was unhappy with the work.

    It isn’t just that he doesn’t pay people- it’s that he and his family live so lavishly while not paying people.

  175. 175.

    dogwood

    @Kay:
    And the dilemma for Democrats is to sift through all the Trump stuff and decide where the disciplined focus should go. A lot of good material is going to be left on the cutting room floor.

  178. 178.

    Matt McIrvin

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: I remember being a little bothered when he ran that campaign ad set to Simon and Garfunkel’s “America”, showing all those cheering people going to Bernie rallies and shaking his hand while he was out on the campaign trail–maybe it’s because I’m getting old, but I thought it was really a lovely, moving ad… except that it was impossible not to notice how lily-white the crowds were. If you looked really closely I think you could see a black person in one shot. I think the Republicans would try to get more brown faces in there for a TV ad, even if they had to pay actors to do it.

  179. 179.

    Matt McIrvin

    @TriassicSands:

    I think you’ll find a lot of Democrats heartened by someone standing up to Trump and crushing him at his own game. Now, don’t get me wrong, nothing Warren said will make a bit of difference with Trump supporters or even people leaning to Trump. However, Trump is so thin-skinned that he may not be able to let Warren get away with her attacks and that will mean he’ll be spending precious campaign time going after someone who isn’t even a candidate. And if he’s spending all his time calling two women names, that won’t help him at all.

    The challenge in this race isn’t going to be pulling away real Trump supporters; that’s simply not going to happen in any great number. It’s getting the Democrats unified and fired up, and keeping people from staying home or voting third-party because the whole race disgusts them or because they’ve decided they don’t like either candidate. And maybe keeping a few low-info people with no real preference from voting Trump because it would be funny or they’re bored.

  180. 180.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I made the same point in some thread from months ago about that ad – if you were a single black mother in Cleveland who has always voted Democratic and saw that ad, what are you seeing? That ad showed the rural landscapes of New England and the kinds of communities that you just know aren’t anything like yours. I thought it was completely tone deaf, and actually bothered me at a much deeper level. It had a nativist whiff about it.

  181. 181.

    Jack the Second

    @Matt McIrvin: I think the attacks Warren made are important for another goal — keeping the Republican establishment embarrassed of Trump and keeping the media entertained with the “Trump is a buffoon” narrative.

    The Republicans have no problem circling the wagons around a turd and pretending he’s a perfectly reasonable candidate. Maybe if Warren keeps the heat up, anyone craven enough to support Trump will be too cowardly to stick his head out.

    Meanwhile, every ounce of ink and second of airtime the media happily spends reporting Warren’s attacks and the racist comments Trump made to inspire them and the sexist comments he made in response to them and holy fucking shit can you believe Trump is the Republican nominee will be one fewer ounce and second spent ginning up the next manufactured Clinton Controversy.

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