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rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

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You are here: Home / Politics / Republican Venality / Hey Media and “Never Trump Conservatives,” Welcome to 2002 and Beyond

Hey Media and “Never Trump Conservatives,” Welcome to 2002 and Beyond

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I gotta admit, while I appreciate the fact that many are now, after Trump and Stone are shitting all over a grieving Gold Star family, horrified by Trump and what may Republicans are doing, I’d like to just say where the fuck have you guys been? This isn’t fucking news. While you all were dancing along singing both sides do it, unaware until now that the beat was set to Horst-Wessel-Lied, this happened in 2002:

And then in 2004, shit was going on:

kerrypurpleheart

Delegates to the Republican National Convention found a new way to take a jab at Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry’s Vietnam service record: by sporting adhesive bandages with small purple hearts on them.

Morton Blackwell, a prominent Virginia delegate, has been handing out the heart-covered bandages to delegates, who’ve worn them on their chins, cheeks, the backs of their hands and other places.

Blackwell is president of the Leadership Institute, an educational foundation he founded in 1979. According to its Web site, the institute prepares conservatives for success in politics, government and the news media.

You’ll be amused to know that Morton Blackwell and company tried to stop Trump but failed, and is now in exile. If I remember correctly, Dr. Frankenstein also died lonely and angry and a failure, floating on a ship at sea.

Now I was a wingnut then, but even I had the good god damned sense to see through that crap:

For those blinded by partisan hatred, we need to review this one more time. John Kerry, regardless of his politics, his post-war antics, and his voting record, is a bona-fide national military hero, wounded numerous times in combat, and a recipient of the Silver Star and the Bronze Star, as well as several Purple Hearts and, btw, personally saving another man’s life. Period. End of story. While there are any number of Senators and Congressman who I wouldn’t spit on if they were on fire, John Kerry is a hero, and there is nothing you can do to change that fact.

And then, of course, there were other vets who weren’t treated so fairly- Scott Beauchamp. I’m not even going to go into the specifics, you can click the link and read for days.

And then, of course, there is just a few months ago. This isn’t Trump. This is the Rancid Pubis’s NRSC:

The NRSC is led by Sen. Roger Wicker (Heller, Cotton, and Ernst are also leadership, to give you an idea who these scumbags are), who had this to say after a recent Trump flare-up:

Mississippi Sen. Roger Wicker, who’s helming the GOP effort to keep control of the Senate, also declined to comment. “I’m not gonna make a career out of responding to every comment and every tweet,” he told reporters after a leadership meeting.

So this is nothing new. They’ll shit on any veteran who they think is in the way of what they want right now, all the while pretending they are the ones who support the troops and voting down any legislation that might help them. And we’ve been screaming about this for years, but the media is just now noticing?

They’re either incompetent, or we’ve just learned what a bridge too far is for them. Either way, they have not covered themselves in glory.

Reader Interactions

188Comments

  1. 1.

    hilts

    “They have not covered themselves in glory”

    They have covered themselves in the putrid, steaming mountain of Donald Trump’s bullshit which dwarfs Mount Everest.

  2. 2.

    sukabi

    Since you’re the blog owner you can bigfoot all you want… but seriously 3 posts in 3 minutes? Try the rhythm method.

  3. 3.

    Frankensteinbeck

    The media and the Republican base don’t give a damn about veterans either. I believe it’s Trump’s personal, loud attempt to get into a pissing match with a grieving mother that dragged this over the line. Trump himself is rubbing people’s noses in it who would otherwise have turned a blind eye.

  5. 5.

    eddie blake

    not… standing up…

    holy flaming turdballs, batman.

    there is no circle of hell harsh enough for these gop scumbags.

  6. 6.

    scav

    They boo the gay service members on active duty, but full-throatedly support the ones torturing people (same and opposite sexual degradation included). This is not new.

  7. 7.

    hilts

    U.S. Republican Donald Trump’s presidential campaign appealed to Capitol Hill for support on Monday as his attacks on the Muslim parents of a decorated American soldier killed in Iraq drew sharp rebukes from fellow party members… Rob Wasinger, a onetime congressional candidate who has been working for the Trump camp on congressional outreach, sent an email to senior Senate aides saying, “We want to get several member statements out today on this, and would really appreciate your help.” A similar appeal was made to Republicans in the House of Representatives, according to a senior aide. Attached to the appeal were talking points lawmakers could use to try to tamp down the controversy growing since last week’s appearance at the Democratic convention by the Khans, the parents of U.S. Army Captain Humayun Khan, who was killed by a bomb in Iraq 12 years ago. The Trump campaign did not respond to requests for comment, and Wasinger refused to comment when contacted by telephone.

    h/t Trump campaign asks Capitol Hill for support in Khan controversy

  8. 8.

    dmsilev

    @hilts: And, apparently, the response of the rest of the GOP was that today was a good day to mow the lawn. And tomorrow, the hedges need to be trimmed. Wednesday is the day for regrouting the shower. Etc.

  9. 9.

    singfoom

    Well, it’s because both sides do it. Liberals opposed the Iraq war, so therefore we hate the troops. See? That’s totally the same as bad mouthing Gold Star families. Fucking journalism, how does it work?

  10. 10.

    terben

    So who’s setting your agenda today, John? Who is manipulating your outrage and making you react? While you are reacting, you aren’t acting. You aren’t doing anything positive. You are becoming the victim and the tool of someone who is expert at manipulating the media.

  11. 11.

    jl

    Regarding the part of the post addressed to the media: they are corporate hacks first and foremost. The ratings and profits risk-return profile of calling BS in this case was favorable. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I read that Khan is a lawyer, and a lot of his practice is in immigration law. So, good chance that if Trump is dumb enough to keep up this crap, some rotting red herring can be found and dragged around under people’s noses and be claimed to support vile and insane smears. The ride might upset our stomachs even more. I hope not, but it might.

  12. 12.

    ? Martin

    The only reasons conservatives are bailing on the party is because they know it’ll affect their reputation going forward. That wasn’t true in 2004 when they went after Kerry. It has nothing to do with attacking veterans and everything to do with how they’ll be perceived for attacking veterans. Had this been Jeb!, they’d all be standing right there with him.

  14. 14.

    sukabi

    They’ve been doing this for decades, just very openly for the last two. Of course if the corporate media and beltway hacks were interested in anything other than preserving their access things might not be in such a disgraceful state. Beltway hacks, corporate media have promoted, enabled, encouraged this bullshit with their “both sides do it” lies.

  15. 15.

    JMG

    @terben: Terbem, were you born in this galaxy? Of course John is reacting. That’s what journalism and indeed human life is about most of the time, reacting to stuff. I reacted to the first sight of my wife 40 years ago with the thought, “wow, that’s a beautiful girl.” Then I acted. Accusing John Cole of passivity isn’t as reprehensible as attacking a Gold Star Mother, but it’s just as stupid.

  16. 16.

    scav

    @Frankensteinbeck: Oh come, come. John’s front paging a topic is meaningless inaction, whereas a single comment in a thread has ultimate transformative impact! (that validates an entire life — certainly an entire self-esteem.)

  18. 18.

    lamh36

    Oh gawd…the Khans are on hardball with Tweety..

    I’m not even gonna watch…just hope Tweety doesn’t embarrass himself

  22. 22.

    Percysowner

    Wow! I started to read the comments on the Kerry thread and they were so er…different and um….interesting. You’ve come a long way, baby. (sorry about the baby, it’s part of the song). I found this blog when I was searching for Republicans who actually thought torture was BAD and WRONG. There was you and there was Andrew Sullivan. I ditched Sully years ago, but you? You applied thought and empathy and compassion to the totality of the Republican dogma and you came back from the dark side. You are one of my go to sites for politics, and pet blegs.

  23. 23.

    raven

    The next day saw a march to Arlington led by “gold star” mothers who had lost their sons. The anger rose to fever pitch when entrance was denied these brave women who wished only to lay fiowers at the graves of their children. Some tried to scale the gate, others pulled them down and counseled patience. The incursion was to last a week.

    Later, time in the halls of Congress to meet with those who claimed to represent us – to demand they honor the memories of our fallen comrades by moving to bring the war to an end. On our way back to camp, a “suit” yelled, “Get a job and make something of yourself!” to a one-armed combat vet who chased the coward into the rotunda and behind the safety of the guards there.

    Later on the mall, we set up camp. We were told that the White House said we were not veterans, but impostors, besmirching the good name of veterans. Within an hour, more than a thousand DD214s and discharge papers were collected from those in camp. We knew who we were.

    We learned that the White House had gone to court to have our camp declared illegal and they wanted the DC police to “evict” us. We voted to stay.

  24. 24.

    BC in Illinois

    I would like to know the answer to Khizr Kahn’s question:

    Has Donald Trump ever been to Arlington Cemetary?

    I grew up in the Washington area, so I went there as a child and a teenager and then in college. I’ve been at funerals at the Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery in St. Louis. And I don’t think that people need to be there often, but there is the emotional impact of row after row of gravestones and then [like being at the Wall] connecting the gravestones and the names to real life–remembering the people you knew who could be in a military cemetery like that. Or even knowing that there are people you knew who are buried at Arlington or Jefferson Barracks. Or that there are people you know, buried elsewhere, who could have been buried at Arlington or Jefferson Barracks.[Not to mention the countless numbers of people you don’t know, who are bound to us by the duties they performed in our name.]

    Donald Trump is 70. He is three years older than I am. We turned 20 in the late 1960s. Does he know anyone at Arlington? Has he ever been there?

  26. 26.

    sigaba

    Interesting comment thread on that 2004 post. Don’t see any of those names around :)

  29. 29.

    Baud

    GOP has had a problem with veterans for a long time. And you can google more examples since 2012.

    But they keep winning the veterans vote because some hippy supposedly spit on a Vietnam vet in 1973, so why should they change.

  33. 33.

    Schlemazel

    @terben:
    I know you are saying words but all I am hearing is “blah, blah, blah, -fart noise-, blah, blah, blaaaaaaaaaaah

  35. 35.

    Villago Delenda Est

    The Rethuglican party has a long history of shitting on soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines, in the name of pursing power. Not to mention elevating deserting and draft dodging scum to positions of power. Donald Drumpf is no different in this regard.

    John McCain, who did serve honorably and and with distinction, should renounce Drumpf full throatedly. Hillary Clinton has done nothing, ever, in her entire life like Drumpf has done over the past few days…even after she has been repeatedly falsely accused in the death of Sean Smith by Smith’s grieving mother. She has said nothing disrespectful toward Patricia Smith.

    Unlike Donald Drumpf.

  44. 44.

    Quinerly

    @Baud:
    I go back and forth with Tweety. Love hate relationship. I really had a falling out with him during the Clenis years. Came back around to him in later years…then “out” with him. He’s redeeming himself tonight. Very good show. People are submitting questions by Twitter.

  46. 46.

    sigaba

    @Villago Delenda Est: McCain might lose his primary if he repudiates Trump. Apparently his father and grandfather both died within a few months of retiring from the Navy, and it has been suggested he’s afraid of the same thing happening if he leaves the senate. A strange man.

  47. 47.

    Cermet

    @raven: Exactly what this is this? President Obama certainly did not do this nor say any such thing. So, is this troll bait?

  49. 49.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Quinerly: I liked what Mrs Khan said, when Tweety asked if they wanted an apology: I don’t want to hear anything from him, and I don’t want to say anything to him

  50. 50.

    sukabi

    @raven: had to google it, 1971 Nixon’s WH. I have seen that snippet posted around but wasn’t sure of the where, when or how of it…

    There is a person in particular that’s busy smearing the Khans today that was doing much the same things back then in Nixon’s White House.

    Nasty little ratf^cker.

  56. 56.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    John McCain also honorably made the decision to put Sarah Palin one elderly man’s heartbeat away from being President. Of the United States. Eight years ago. The idea that he would do anything except sell his soul to win elections comes from some thought system with which I am unfamiliar.

  59. 59.

    Trentrunner

    Just watched the Khans interviewed on Hardball.

    They are better Americans than I can even aspire to be.

  60. 60.

    Kay

    Amusing and gratifying to watch state Republican parties panic:

    ALERT: Michigan Republican Party blasts Trump’s attack on family of solider killed in Iraq, Capt. Humayun Khan

    ALERT- Michigan Republican Party terrified of downside risk of making a moronic bigot their standard-bearer: hopes not to be held accountable

  61. 61.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    DiFi coming up on Tweety to talk Trump and the Khans. I’m not a fan, but I predict she will gut under the cheeto glaze something fierce.

  62. 62.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Bill E Pilgrim: He made his decision in that regard when he forgot everything he may have learned at the Hanoi Hilton and embraced torturers to win the 2008 GOP nomination. His ambition sold his integrity for the brass ring.

  63. 63.

    D58826

    There have been a couple of articles on the subject if the shoe was on the other foot and the liberals had picked someone bats*t crazy life Sean Penn. What I got a laugh about was the one article where the writer’s said that his right leaning friends could vote for Joe Biden but Hillary was a bridge to far. The thing is Hillary and Uncle Joe are not really that far apart on most issues. Certainly a lot closer than Hillary and Bernie. If the right wing hadn’t spent the past 25 years that Hillary is the spawn of Satan, they would have no problem switching for one election cycle. So not only has the party madness given them Trump but it has precluded them from an honorable alternative to voting for Trump.. May they roast in their own juices.

  64. 64.

    raven

    @sukabi: As many times as I’d looked at that site I actually didn’t know the the author was in Korea the same time as I was.

  65. 65.

    RandomMonster

    I started reading here around the time Cole pivoted leftward. Stopped in most every day since. Come for the snark, stay for the pets…

  66. 66.

    Gene108

    I am drawing a blank on all the details, ATM, but 10 or so years ago the Democrats had a kid as a spokesperson for an issue.

    Michelle Malkin said the family had granite countertops and they started giving the kid hell for speaking up.

    Not the first time they’ve gun after an innocent messenger for saying something they disagreed with.

  67. 67.

    Anoniminous

    @lamh36:

    He is doing what he has been doing his whole life what got him the nomination. Suddenly people are fighting back and he can’t handle it.

  68. 68.

    JMG

    Trump supporters exist in every country. They’re the assholes, the losers who can only think of either kissing up or kicking down. If Clinton went to a Trump rally and told them they had small penises they’d wet themselves. A drag on humanity as a whole.

  69. 69.

    seaboogie

    @hilts:

    Trump campaign asks Capitol Hill for support in Khan controversy

    I continue to be amazed when Trump is referred to as either a Republican or – most especially – as a politician. He is neither. He is simply a psychopath with a grudge to settle. That the GOP is so morally bankrupt as to allow the Trump phenom to happen is all on them.

  72. 72.

    satby

    @satby: and because I can’t edit my comment, John was still a moderate Republican, and lots of his commentators were conservatives. But I think I had found the blog via Joe Gandy’s, and later was redirected here by Atrios, and I think a lot of us arrived by the same path.
    I like the crowd here now better anyway, with a few (bro) exceptions.

  76. 76.

    D58826

    @Gene108: It was over the issue of funding SCHIP the medical plan for kids. The ‘pro-family’ (cough gag wheeze cough) wanted to make major cuts and the democrats wanted to increase the funding.

  77. 77.

    Cermet

    @Baud: Good, nice to get content – blind post of past history don’t exactly make sense even in context. Especially after Raven questioned, down two commentator posts down, whether Khan was a hero or just got in the way of an explosive by blind chance.

  82. 82.

    D58826

    @satby: And I found my way here via a link from every ones favorite blogger – Sully. What wait he isn’t every ones favorite blogger. Well we’ll let it go this time.

  83. 83.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @seaboogie: The Drumpf phenomenon is the logical result of playing the race card under the table for 50 years. The GOP (and “Conservatism”) built this. It belongs to them. Now that the monster has broken free of the restraints, all the sudden some of them realize that this may have not been a good idea. Their problem is they can’t sell “everything for the .01%!” without the racism, the xenophobia, the sexism, the militarism, the sheer hatred. They need that base to have a shot at power.

  85. 85.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Villago Delenda Est: matt yglesias put up a tweet about Bernistas who are now for Johnson

    Matthew Yglesias ‏@ mattyglesias 1h1 hour ago Maine, USA
    Matthew Yglesias
    Sanders fans more likely to back Johnson than Stein b/c for many people politics isn’t about issues/ideology.

    the replies are largely dominated by one such specimen who describes himself as a “defender of men”. No correlation, I’m sure.

  88. 88.

    Cermet

    @raven: Are you trying to be an ass? Your post had no background so exactly what should I have thought? It is your responsibility to provide either a link or context. If you are calling me that name in the title of the link, then fuck off ass wipe; your a stupid shit. Otherwise, no comment.

  90. 90.

    satby

    @rikyrah: I did, way later, thanks. Lots I didn’t know and it will be very helpful, because this election I may not be in the country, but dammit, my vote will be counted!

  91. 91.

    rikyrah

    @lamh36:

    These are the people that booed a gay soldier at the debates. And, had no problem with Ron Paul saying that if you don’t have insurance, oh well. Too bad for you.

  96. 96.

    raven

    @Cermet: Fuck you. I told John he missed the treatment of the VVAW, not just Kerry and then posted information that supported it.

  97. 97.

    rikyrah

    @satby:
    Well, if you are not going to be in the country, you can definitely put in the FPCA right now. Get yourself in the pipeline to get the ballot.

  99. 99.

    D58826

    @Quinerly: Tweety is Tweety. He isn’t going to change (or shut-up and let the guest answer his questions) so just take the good with the bad (and a stiff drink).

  100. 100.

    bemused

    Trump has yooge tantrums when he gets less than 100% adoration and doesn’t behave much better when he does.

  101. 101.

    Schlemazel

    @D58826:
    This is very old bullshit. People say stuff like, “I could vote for the person who isn’t actually running but not the one who is” This allows them to pretend they are sane

  105. 105.

    raven

    @Cermet: I want to know what the fuck you are taking about with this bullshit?

    Especially after Raven questioned, down two commentator posts down, whether Khan was a hero or just got in the way of an explosive by blind chance.

  106. 106.

    Quinerly

    @D58826:
    Yep. I’ve been back and forth with him…back to his CNBC days. It was the old Tweety tonight. Kinda nice. I still like him when he speaks of his days with Pres. Carter as a speechwriter.

  109. 109.

    gogol's wife

    @Schlemazel:

    I was pressing a guy today who said he couldn’t vote for Trump but also couldn’t vote for Hillary. When I asked why he couldn’t vote for her, he said, “I would prefer that someone else be president.” Great reason.

  110. 110.

    Fair Economist

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    John McCain also honorably made the decision to put Sarah Palin one elderly man’s recurrent cancer survivor’s heartbeat away from being President

    FTFY

  111. 111.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @raven: I think what we have here is a misinterpretation of one of your posts. Cermet, please quote the original post you’re referring to so raven has a chance to defend his own words.

  113. 113.

    D58826

    @Baud: I read somewhere in the past day or so that when Cindy Sheehan was protesting outside the Bush ranch, Bush issued a gracious statement about support her right to protest and the freedom of speech. No anger no hate . It’s not really hard. Unless your Trump.

  114. 114.

    satby

    @rikyrah: thanks, it’s not certain yet, but I will just in case. Have to nail down a place to come home to after I leave.
    Though by then the replacement garage in Beverly should be done ?

  115. 115.

    Archon

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    I do think future historians will look back at this era and consider this frightful turn by the Republican Party inevitable due to the Southern Strategy and it’s logical endgame.

  116. 116.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Baud: Paulistas were the first to start the birf certificate nonsense…and they pulled it on John McCain, saying he wasn’t natural born because he was born in a military hospital in the Panama Canal Zone.

  117. 117.

    raven

    @Villago Delenda Est: This dumb fuck must be talking about this post:

    6

    raven says:
    August 1, 2016 at 3:10 pm
    Bill Mitchell:

    Hate to spit in the politically correct punchbowl but getting shot or blown up in the line of duty makes you a soldier, not a hero.

    In WWII, you were a hero if you risked your life taking out a machine gun to save your platoon. Now, ur a hero if you step on a landmine.

    I copied and pasted a tweet from BILL MITCHELL. That’s why, you know, his motherfucking NAME is on itl

  118. 118.

    Schlemazel

    As long as we are telling tales of how we found this place:
    The Great Orange Satan used to have BJ on their blogroll. I clicked through a few times & to be honest did not see the appeal, I figured Kos knew JC somehow because there was nothing in the dozen or so times I stopped by I thought was educational or enlightening. One day on some lefty blog someplace someone posted “You should see what is happening on Balloon Juice!” I do not remember the trigger but Cole had started to make the switch and was taking a world of shit from commenters. There was a change over as more and more liberals dove into the fight & wingnuts fled so as to not puncture their beloved bubbles. It was epic & John stood toe to to with those assholes. I think of those days every time he points out what a bunch of assholes we all are.

  119. 119.

    satby

    @gogol’s wife: my right wing nut cousin and lots of his friends were all over how they couldn’t vote for Drumpf but couldn’t vote for “that liar” either. I hope they all go Libertarian, because they’re all Republican voters normally.

  121. 121.

    Kelly

    The Trump campaign is clearly a diversionary maneuver. No logistic support, drawing fire from all directions. What is the real goal being masked by all this? I suspect lizard people.

  122. 122.

    Archon

    @sigaba: Not sure if this was mentioned upstream but Arlington Cemetery was purposely built on Robert E Lee’s front lawn.

  124. 124.

    gogol's wife

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    I saw that post — raven was quoting someone else, but because of the punctuation I too thought for a moment he was expressing his own opinion. But he was quoting some slandering Repub.

  126. 126.

    hilts

    @Quinerly: @D58826:

    Chris Matthews pushed MSNBC execs to fire Phil Donahue in the run up to the Iraq war so I’ve never been a fan. Judy Woodruff also interviewed the Khans on tonight’s broadcast of the PBS NewsHour

  127. 127.

    Tim C.

    @RandomMonster: me too, I got the tip over at Kos that there was as epic rant from a Republican who was defective….. I mean defecting. Was my first sample of an epic John rant and I’ve been here, commenting occasionoccasionally ever since. This community rocks.

  129. 129.

    jacy

    @rikyrah:

    I don’t remember how I got here, but it was at the time of the Terry Schiavo debacle. It’s been an affirmation for me of the goodness in people to watch our esteemed bloghost’s journey and how thoughtful and honest he has been throughout it.

  130. 130.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @raven: Yup, I was pretty sure that was the one.

    Bill Mitchell is an ass, obviously. CPT Khan did something that officers are supposed to do: lead by example, and protect their troops. CPT Khan saved hundreds of lives that day by taking those 10 steps…the IED laden vehicle was going to drive into a mess tent.

  132. 132.

    debbie

    @satby:

    One of my Republican brothers is thinking about backing Gary Johnson. Fine with me. The one brother still with Trump insists he supports Trump because he is an outsider. I ask him how someone can buy politicians, like Trump brags he has, gets all that access, and be anything but an insider? He tells me I’m twisting his words. I tell him he’s a sociopath (he’s still questioning the birth certificate), and he leaves the room. Winning!

  133. 133.

    Kay

    @Schlemazel:

    It just doesn’t make sense to me. Do they vote for local candidates they aren’t thrilled with? I have, hundreds of times. In a local race their vote has a much bigger impact. They should be LESS worried about the uniqueness and preciousness of their vote in a Presidential race. Odds are, it doesn’t matter at all. Do they really feel personally responsible for each and every decision or outcome based on one vote?

    Can you imagine if they had a decision to make that didn’t involve tens of millions of other contributors? I don’t think they could function. Something bad might happen, and it might be tangentially connected in some attenuated way to them. Too risky. They cannot bear this moral burden.

  134. 134.

    Roger Moore

    @raven:

    I told John he missed the treatment of the VVAW, not just Kerry and then posted information that supported it.

    I understood what you were doing, but it might have been better to combine the two in a single comment so people with short attention spans could follow more easily.

  135. 135.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @jacy: I arrived post-conversion. Atrios linked to him a few times, and his comment threads were getting increasingly nutty as the PUMAs and the Naderites joined forces to declare Obama a secret Republican sell-out et cetera et cetera… So I stayed here.

  137. 137.

    MikeBoyScout

    This thread may be beat, but

    what makes our US fighting forces a power to be reckoned with is we don’t leave our comrades behind.

    The GOP has been violating this principle with our Vets for a long time.

  138. 138.

    Roger Moore

    @Schlemazel:

    People say stuff like, “I could vote for the person who isn’t actually running but not the one who is” This allows them to pretend they are sane

    Yep. In the same way, once Hillary is in office, Obama will be rehabilitated enough that she can be criticized for not being as good as he was. The same thing happened to Bill once Obama was in office.

  140. 140.

    Ruckus

    @BC in Illinois:
    You and I are the same age, as are a number of vets on BJ. I’ve never been to Arlington or seen the Wall in person. But then I live in socal so it is more than a hop and a skip away. I did drive through DC, once.
    My point is a lot of people have never been and probably will never go. I think it’s a fair question for the Khan’s to ask, I’m not sure it’s fair for most of the rest of us although it may be a fair question for those who say they support the troops/vets but have no proof of doing so.

  142. 142.

    Schlemazel

    @Roger Moore: Many times you will hear people say “I wish I could vote for his wife instead of him”

    That is one thing you wont hear once Hillary is POTUS & not just because she has a husband!

  143. 143.

    Quinerly

    @hilts:
    I remember all the Phil Donohue stuff and was sad to see him go. I guess I never heard the part about Chris Matthews being involved. As I remember back then, Matthews was also against the war. My problems with Matthews were before that…Clinton impeachment and his obsession with the blowjob.

  144. 144.

    rikyrah

    @lamh36:

    WATCH: Military mom booed at Pence rally for asking about Trump’s treatment of Khan family.

    So, dare I expect for Pence to pass John McCain 2008/Crazy Cat Lady test?

    of course, he didn’t.

  145. 145.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Quinerly: yeah, Tweety is mercurial and had a man-crush on the Shrub, but he was pretty consistently skeptical of the Iraq War

  146. 146.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Ruckus: I’ve been to Arlington and to the Wall. When I was at Arlington (after getting a haircut at a Pentagon barber shop) it struck me how appropriate it was that so many windows in the Pentagon had a view of the lines of tombstones. Gives the people who work at the Pentagon a reminder, every day, of the terrible, terrible responsibilities they have.

  147. 147.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:

    You gotta love that Hillz criticized Donnie for his addiction to Twitter in her acceptance speech and he just HAD to prove her right on all counts. He can’t help himself.

  149. 149.

    rikyrah

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Their problem is they can’t sell “everything for the .01%!” without the racism, the xenophobia, the sexism, the militarism, the sheer hatred. They need that base to have a shot at power.

    true that.

  151. 151.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Mnemosyne: He’s so easily played, and he’s totally unaware he’s being played. For a guy who pats himself on the back about his shrewdness in negotiations, he’s pretty much an idiot savant.

  153. 153.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Cermet:

    Especially after Raven questioned, down two commentator posts down, whether Khan was a hero or just got in the way of an explosive by blind chance.

    Raven was merely pointing out that simply serving in the military – even in combat, even if one is killed – does not make one a hero. Most soldiers, sailor, marines, and airmen (airpeople?), like most people, are not heroes.

  154. 154.

    HinTN

    @sukabi: At the risk of reliving the past, I present for everyone’s enjoyment “cocktail weenies.” Remember when…?

  155. 155.

    Mike in NC

    MSNBC shows clip of military mom at Pence rally getting booed by a crowd of nothing but fat old white people for critizing Trump.

  157. 157.

    Roger Moore

    @Schlemazel:

    Many times you will hear people say “I wish I could vote for his wife instead of him”

    I certainly remember when I was working on Bill’s campaign that a lot of the hard core Democrats were more enamored with his wife and VP than they were with him. I assume a lot of it is because they weren’t forced into the practical compromises that he had to make as somebody who had to get stuff done. It’s the old problem of elections forcing you to choose between purity and results.

  159. 159.

    seaboogie

    @Villago Delenda Est:@Frankensteinbeck:

    Agreed. The GOP pols are opportunists who just want power with no clear vision of why they want it, except to simply have it and keep it. What they are willing to do and say and support to make that possible is limitless. They don’t believe in government, because they have no interest in governing, let alone making the lives of our citizens better.

  160. 160.

    seaboogie

    @Roger Moore: Hear hear!!! My friend said that she likes Michelle better than Barack, and my reply was – “of course!”, because:
    A – she is awesome, and
    B – she is not a politician

  161. 161.

    Ruckus

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    A large percentage of those in the service when I was in really were not in a lot of danger. You could get killed, I know of one in the navy who did but that was because he couldn’t follow simple orders. I don’t know if he was incapable of understanding or didn’t give a shit but he died because he didn’t listen. Many were in very dangerous jobs, I’ve climbed the mast and then out the yardarm, about 75 feet off the deck and outboard of the ship, the safety belt being a rope that I tied around my waist and to the ship. One slip and everything counted on those knots. Did it twice. But my chances of getting shot? Slim to none. Getting blown up by an errant or poorly handled 5 in high explosive shell? A hell of a lot higher. I was also a damage control fire entry person for a year. The first one to enter and assess a compartment in case of fire or damage from attack. So yes there was danger, real danger. But nothing that could be heroic. Nothing.

  164. 164.

    HinTN

    @Ruckus: I avoided Vietnam. I’ve been to the wall and been amazed at the power there. (The Korean memorial is also very powerful.) I’ve not been to Arlington but I have been to the Punchbowl and I can testify to its power and tranquility. Memorials are important and, when well made, command our respect.

  165. 165.

    Duke of Clay

    1996 — Clint Day, running for the Republican nomination for Senator in Georgia commented that Max Cleland did not understand the human cost of war.

  166. 166.

    raven

    @Roger Moore: I’m sure you are right but being attacked for a post 5 hours previous seems to throw the short attention span notion out the window.

  170. 170.

    ? Martin

    @BC in Illinois:

    Donald Trump is 70. He is three years older than I am. We turned 20 in the late 1960s. Does he know anyone at Arlington? Has he ever been there?

    Maybe Trump could work out what guy is buried there who took his slot when he was deferred for his feet.

  171. 171.

    BC in Illinois

    @Ruckus:
    You are entirely right. The entire point is not being there, so much as realizing that those men and women ARE there. Cemeteries are certainly not the only place to have the realization that our country is a far bigger thing than just me, my friends, my circle, and people like me.

    I am thinking of “going to Arlington” as shorthand for looking at the histories–the personal histories–of thousands, and saying, “This is about me. These are my people.”

    It’s a different version of asking “Breathes there a man with soul so dead . . .” Mr. Kahn was asking not whether Trump had been to Virginia, but whether he realized a debt to–and a bond with–people very unlike himself. And whether he could recognize that these people, also, are “our people.”

  172. 172.

    joel hanes

    In the aftermath of 9/11 I was trying to get an overview, and built a huge folder of blog links, and read CIA Factbook pages, warbloggers (DuToit, Gates of Vienna) and the beginnings of the liberal blogosphere — starting with Media Whores Online, later The Smirking Chimp, and Atrios, Publius, The Poor Man ..

    Cole was still a Republican at that point, but I kept coming back and reading because he actually engaged and thought about the replies he got.

    I don’t think I commented here much until the great “Aware Of All Internet Traditions” festival.

  173. 173.

    seaboogie

    @? Martin:

    Maybe Trump could work out what guy is buried there who took his slot when he was deferred for his feet.

    Trump is a psychopath and a narcissist – not gonna happen. I got stuck in the particulars of an argument for a long while, but it is pointless. Trump is a flat out nutter, and you cannot score points with such a one. Check this out – it’s Olbermann being not ranty for a change, and speaks directly to Trump’s mental illness.

  174. 174.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @joel hanes: starting with Media Whores Online, later The Smirking Chimp

    wow, I’d forgotten about those two, the identity of the Horse was never identified, was s/he?

  175. 175.

    J R in WV

    @Cermet:

    The day you get to call Raven a troll will be the day after Trump wins.

    He’s quoting Secretary of State John Kerry, who said that in the days when men were dying in mudholes in SE Asia, for Nixon. After he won medals for valor, and was awarded purple hearts, and threw them over the fence at the White House… and organized the Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

    I was going to offer you some choice expletives that Raven likes, but you don’t deserve that honor. Compared to you LBJ was a mensch.

  177. 177.

    Ruckus

    @BC in Illinois:
    Was and am tracking. Just pointing out the same thing, distance is relative. It is a special and for me now a somewhat expensive trip. But I don’t even have to go to understand. Some people work within a very short distance of both of Arlington and the Wall and even if they went, would most likely would not get the significance of either. I wonder how many republican congressmen have even been?

  178. 178.

    kindness

    When John was a wingnut he was one with principle. Now he’s a moderate to liberal with principle. It matters. Not to Fox, the MSM or talking heads out there. But it does to us.

  185. 185.

    chopper

    @terben:

    I’m trying to read your post but all I see is half-chewed piss dribbling off the broken jaw of a gibbering loon.

  186. 186.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    @chopper: this Trumpkin line that every gaffe Donald commits is somehow GENIUS MEDIA MANIPULATION because he managed to win 38% of the GOP primary votes and a majority of delegates due to rules favoring him (not rigged, after all) is the biggest load of bullshit.

    As even the conservative assclown Mark Halperin noted–there is literally NO READON for Donald to take on the Khans. No upside. The only explanation is that he can’t help it. He can’t help but hit back. In doing so, he has given the nation a front row seat to the personality trait the Dems spent 4 days highlighting–his impulsive intemperance. There is no reality where unnecessarily reinforcing your opponents critiques is a good thing.

  187. 187.

    Big Picture Pathologist

    @satby:

    I think I recall JC being name-checked by some lefty blogs as a reasonable Republican. Then sometime in 2008 (IIRC) Scoobie Davis posted an item about some Republican leaving the fold. And BOY has it been a rewarding experience seeing you recognize the GOP for what it is.

  188. 188.

    mere mortal

    “Now I was a wingnut then, but even I had the good god damned sense to see through that crap”

    Yup, that’s why I was reading this site when wingnut John Cole was here.

    The fact that there was integrity somewhere at the core distinguished you from your right-wing online peers, and I needed somewhere to hear that perspective, because it seemed like the right had gone completely bonkers. Like even beyond 1994 bonkers.

    You were still pretty bad then, but at least you allowed comments and didn’t ban commenters who challenged you.

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