Clinton: "This election is incredibly painful." Via pooler @thomaskaplan pic.twitter.com/B1V4L0MeMs
— Zeke Miller (@ZekeJMiller) October 15, 2016
Yeah, it’s (mostly) not about “economic anxiety”, but some 27% of our fellow citizens seem to be wandering around in a toxic haze. And they’ll still be here after (Goddess grant) the Democrats win the Oval Office and both houses of Congress, come November…
.@mcottle on the tragedy that lies ahead for Trump voters: https://t.co/WvRGuML884 pic.twitter.com/0pravUMT8R
— Yoni Appelbaum (@YAppelbaum) October 14, 2016
A lot of people seem to mistakenly believe that policy outcomes are driven by politicians’ psychic energies rather than by their policies.
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) October 14, 2016
Clinton will give the white working class more concrete economic resources; she won’t validate their fear of diversity and social change.
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) October 14, 2016
Trump, by contrast, will validate their fear of diversity and social change and will give an enormous tax cut to multi-millionaires.
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) October 14, 2016
Contrast, for example, Clinton's job-training $ for coal counties versus Trump promising to undo energy trends https://t.co/Ci1Is3dhOi
— daveweigel (@daveweigel) October 14, 2016
Worth reading professional political organizer Dana Houle’s whole thread here (click on any invidual tweet):
1/Fundamental flaw RE “Trump voters earn more than you think” He has almost nobody under 30 i.e. those earning least https://t.co/8vUF2ZTArg
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) October 14, 2016
18/I’m the first person in my family to graduate high school. I grew up in an archetypal white working class community. I have no problem…
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) October 14, 2016
20/…assholes are having to deal with their grandson’s Mexican wife, or the Arab-Americans who live next door & are good neighbors. It’s…
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) October 14, 2016
22/ [misnumbered 21 as duplicate 20]…are still bad. But even there, younger whites are less Repub/Trump/racist than older whites.
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) October 14, 2016
24/…if we beat that racist orange fuck, as I’ve been certain all along we will. It’s going to be uglier for a few yrs, but it’ll get better
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) October 14, 2016
Trentrunner
This post, like the country itself, shifts smoothly from misogyny to racism/xenophobia as being the driving force behind Trump’s (likely) defeat.
It’s a cocktail of all of them, of course, but I’m afraid that misogyny will (as usual) take a back seat if Clinton wins. Trump is doing his gropey best to make sure it doesn’t, but I know my America.
(Also, thanks for posting Clinton’s words from last night, which clearly show she isn’t “gloating” as one commenter put it last thread. Annoying accusation now dispensed with.)
SenyorDave
For Wednesday’s debate I would think the first question would have to about the latest accusations against Trump. The next might be about Wikileaks (even though the biggest revelation to me is that John Podesta and company actually discuss campaign strategy). It would be interesting if Clinton did something along the lines of the first question very quickly and stating that she was hoping the focus of the debate would be policy. Because Trump’s extremely regressive tax plans which almost no serious economists or tax analysis group endorses can be ripped apart pretty easily. It is classic Laffer BS.
Zinsky
Wait until the oil runs out. And it will run out – or the costs to extract it, refine it, transport it, etc. will exceed the benefits derived from it (i.e. EROEI < 1.0). In a country of poorly educated, angry loonies armed to the teeth, and suddenly they can't get gas for their fucked up SUVs – blood will flow.
gene108
You know the Democrats have been trying rural uplift, from the New Deal to Obamacare, and for awhile the folks in those places noticed, but not so much anymore. They’ll vote against Democrats for reasons, we cannot quite understand, despite Democrats continuously trying to boost their living standards for generations.
gene108
@SenyorDave:
It’s beyond the Laffer Curve. All Republican economic plans are well beyond what Laffer was talking about.
There were higher marginal tax rates in 1980 than today. There was something to cut.
There was also stagflation, which seemed to need a new way to boost the economic, so despite the tax cuts being untested, at least they were new and if they didn’t work, you could always raise taxes again.
Now it’s just a plane money grab to shovel money to the rich. The veneer of actually trying to solve a problem is gone.
Edit: Bush, Jr.’s first round of tax cuts were nominally about getting us out of the 2001 recession. The second round were more controversial and only passed the Senate on Cheney’s tie-breaking vote.
BGinCHI
I was down in Indiana last weekend (my ancestral homelands) and saw exactly zero Trump signs. Pence was already way underwater there before he jumped on the gravy wagon VP slot, and everyone I know is glad to see him go.
I saw many Clinton/Kaine signs.
I’m not saying Indiana has come to its senses, because it doesn’t really have any. But there’s not much enthusiasm, as far as I can tell, for what Trump is selling. I hear the same thing from my very politically-connected friend in Indpls.
Bill E Pilgrim
People constantly citing “economic anxiety” and “working class voters being left behind” as explanations for Trump support aren’t actually listening to Trump supporters:
patroclus
@SenyorDave: No, Chris Wallace is the moderator. I expect slanted questions pushing the Fox agenda and drastically favoring Trump – this will be their last chance to change the narrative and I fully expect them to take advantage of that chance.
waysel
@Trentrunner: “which clearly show she isn’t “gloating” as one Asshole
commenter put it last thread. Annoying accusation now dispensed with.)” You left out the word ‘asshole’, so I fixed that for you. And no, sadly I don’t know how to block quote.
Hillary Rettig
@gene108: good point. the nytimes ran a piece about Ocare recipients in Kentucky, and this woman who had received a ton of free medical care was grousing how, “no one cares about anyone any more.” totally ungrateful. she either couldn’t connect the dots between this amazing benefit she received, through no effort of her own, or wouldn’t.
Shell
So, has anybody seen all that exonerating evidence that Gov. Pence was promising yesterday?
waysel
@gene108: Guns and Jesus.
Iowa Old Lady
I live in a rural state and there seem to me to be short term and long term forces at work. Long term, small towns are dying. Small farms are being consolidated into large ones. All the population growth is in the cities. Very long term, urbanization has been a force for centuries now as farming ceases to be the predominant occupation. So I don’t think that’s reversible.
But how do you ease the blow to people who are being forced into a change they don’t want? What do we do short term (short being a relative term of course)?
Small towns desperately want to keep their school. Preserving it helps the town to survive but at what cost in money and opportunity for the students? Should everyone in the state kick in to support those underfunded districts? There’s a complex set of issues here.
Major Major Major Major
Trumpism is racist, full stop. That not all general-election Trump voters are Trumpists seems to be lost on some people.
Iowa Old Lady
@gene108: As I recall, W also argued that Clinton ran a surplus his last year in office, and tax cuts were a way to give back the extra money to the taxpayer. Of course, the economy tanked so there wouldn’t have been a surplus anyway.
Baud
Yoni is an idiot.
dogwood
@SenyorDave:
You really believe that talking about Trump’s standard GOP regressive tax policies are gonna sink in and make sense to the republicans and so-called swing voters. They don’t care about policy; they care about their egos. Trump makes them feel good.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Shell: I think it was the will-invent-story-for-hire Brit with the background in underage sex procurement. Who had the wrong year for the flight and got what she was wearing wrong.
Devastating rebuttal witness needless to say.
Baud
@dogwood:
Agree. It’s actually the only real domestic policy issue that was discussed in the prior two debates.
Ked
@BGinCHI: Elkhart County (IN) actually has some Hillary signs, but the Trump sign fairy landed in Lagrange County a couple weeks back and they’re staked out all along US 20.
I don’t think that winning Indiana is an absolute impossibility, but I’m not expecting it to go against type. If we get mustache-dude and Bayh I’ll be happy.
MisterForkbeard
@Shell: They had one non-credible guy come forward about the airplane grope, but that was it.
How non-credible? He’s a British citizen with a history of making up stories about politician and selling them to newspapers who came forward – he says not only was he there and it did it not happen, he says the lady came onto Trump and after Trump left, she started talking about how she was going to marry him. If that doesn’t sound fantastic enough, I don’t think he can even prove he was on the same plane.
hovercraft
@Trentrunner:
This bullshit always looking for something to criticize her for needs to stop, especially from our side. The fact that villagers are saying she is staying out of the way while dumpster self immollates is not the same as gloating or being complacent. She is still raising money, and allowing the press into the speeches, she actually has a campaign so that even when she is not doing rallies herself she has an entire lineup of top of the line surrogates who can draw a crowd and media attention. Her campaign is the one coordinating these speeches, Trump has just himself and Pence, and he is just lighting a new fire every time he opens his mouth.
@Shell:
He put out a statement at 5 o’clock yesterday saying there would be no additional information coming from the campaign about the accusers after the British Procurer.
Major Major Major Major
Stop the presses! Trump’s racist butler says that he never sexually assaulted nobody! This plus the British sex trafficker from yesterday make me SERIOUSLY doubt the ‘media’ ‘narrative’ that those international bankers (wink wink) are trying to sell.
waysel
@MisterForkbeard: And supposedly he was 17 at the time. With ‘an incredibly good menory’.
lamh36
Musical Interlude:
If you’ve never seen the movie CAMP ya really should. It’s a cute, funny and heartwarming lil movie.
With a young Anna Kendrick and many young singers and actors, at least one of which became a bonafide Broadway star…
Here’s Where I Stand – from CAMPvia @YouTube
Baud
@hovercraft:
This.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Major Major Major Major:
All that means is that he never assaulted anyone with a candlestick, in the study. Or so the butler says, anyway.
hovercraft
@SenyorDave:
The media tells me that if it weren’t for the Trump follies we would all be focused on the wikileaks dumps. Really? The fact that a campaign is telling the candidate what may hurt her, or discussing how and to whom they should communicate information, or saying they will be dammed either way? This is scandalous? The best October surprises occur close to election day so maybe he’s got something better, but so far it’s a giant nothingburger.
D58826
@gene108: Case in point the folks in KY who elected a governor after he promised to take away their medical coverage because it was called Obamacare.
rikyrah
@patroclus:
I have no illusions about what Wallace will try to do. I am also comforted by the fact that grown up Tracy Flick;
1. Has no illusions
2. Is prepared and knowledgeable
3. Ferret Head doesn’t know shyt.
Baud
@hovercraft:
Ha! I watched all of 5 minutes of news today, and that’s what they were saying. Maybe there is a conspiracy.
Major Major Major Major
@hovercraft: gropey von fuckstick has nothing.
In other news, Paul Ryan, in a stunning rebuke of Trump, says he has faith in our electoral system.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major:
If you can’t trust racist butlers and British sex traffickers, who can you trust?
Turgidson
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Communism was a red herring!
SenyorDave
@dogwood: I’m only worried about independents. I’m a realist, if some women are voting for Trump, then some people are unreachable. When it comes to women, he is a complete degenerate (he walked around backstage at the Miss Teen USA pageant while the girls were changing, for God’s sake! I used that on a Trump supporter at work the other day and he actually thought that was pretty disgusting, not that it will change his mind).
I just think that the tax issue is a potential big winner among undecideds. especially when you hit him on the tax returns at the same time.
sigaba
@gene108:
There’s been a smooth transition from an evidence-based economic argument to a values-based cultural argument — “these high rates are discouraging investment and causing tax evasion and black markets” to “If you work hard you should keep what you make.” The tone has changed as the Republicans’ constituencies have gotten more and more populist and rural.
All of their policies have drifted in this way, Republican energy policy has moved from deregulation and nukes to “drill baby drill,” “clean coal” and “corn ethanol.” They used to be dangerous but based on cogent long-range strategies, now it’s all just pandering to rural interests.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: It’s good to have you back, Baud!.
lamh36
So, I’m looking to store a Queen size bed room set (bed frame (broken down of course), a dresser, a night stand, vanity mirror), a fold up treadmill, a 51′ & 42′ flat screen tv, 2 tv stands and a small 4 chair square dining room table…
Wondering if a 4′ x 4′ x 8 storage unit would be too small?
Baud
Speaking of undecideds, it’s funny how Ken Bone became a thing. But what if he goes with Trump? I’m not pleased that a potential fascist is treated like a celebrity.
Baud
@lamh36:
Wish I could help. I’m horrible at estimating.
trollhattan
Today’s HFC agreement is a big Biden deal.
You may return to hand-wringing.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: K-Bone sucks and will probably vote Johnson.
Ruckus
@lamh36:
Are you storing the mattress and box spring? If not, you might be able to get it all in there. But a dresser is usually longer than 4 feet so it would have to be stored on end, as would the 51″ TV. That’s probably not good. You might be able to use a 5×5 if no mattress/box spring.
ETA a queen size is approx 60″ wide by 80″ long so unless it’s a generous 5×5 you’d never get the mattress/box in.
hovercraft
@waysel:
A photographic memory, but he can’t remember what year it happened, but he remembers the woman and Trump.
trollhattan
@lamh36:
Which dimension is 8′? (Sounds small.)
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Makes sense. Why piss off a large part of your audience?
It’s funny how Johnson voters think they get a pass.
RepubAnon
@patroclus: Yup, and Trump will have all the questions beforehand… it’s the Fox Way.
trollhattan
@Baud:
I don’t believe in undecideds so truly have no fvcks to give. “Hey, cameras!”
dmsilev
@MisterForkbeard:
It is, believe or not, even worse than that. His proof for all of this is his self-proclaimed fantastic memory…but he couldn’t even definitively remember in which year this even occurred.
RepubAnon
@hovercraft: More like a dollar-centric memory – he remembers whatever pays the most. I wonder whether he kept his passport from those years… and why he was flying in First Class rather than Coach. Was his family rich?
Thoughtful David
@Iowa Old Lady:
So, the town in western Kansas where my sister-in-law lives, is also dying. So, what did they do? The town purchased the grocery store and the movie theater. The county purchased the apartment complex.
Can you say “communism?” This is pure-dee communism. Yes, it’s a way to keep their town alive. And yet these fuckers vote every goddamned time to cut taxes, and cut “welfare,” because some ni-clang might get some benefit somewhere and that’s socialism.
Iowa Old Lady
@Baud: At this point, an undecided voter is a fool. That “undecided” audience cheered at the “you’d be in jail” line. They’re Rs trying to bring themselves to vote for Trump.
Frank Wilhoit
@Major Major Major Major: No.
Trumpism is conservatism, full stop.
Conservatism is two-tiered citizenship: in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind; out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. It has been so in every time and place. Nothing else matters, including the libraries full of pseudophilosophy (economic, religious, yes racist, etc.) to justify it.
Each of Trump’s voters wants this. Each is a Trumpist because each is a conservative.
It is conservatism that is invalid. Tying it to Trump legitimizes it — it means “but for Trump, conservatism would have potential validity”. It wouldn’t.
Iowa Old Lady
@Thoughtful David: Those were smart moves for the town and county to make. What you do about the stunted minds and hearts of the citizenry is another problem.
Baud
@Iowa Old Lady:
I didn’t realize the audience was undecided. I assumed they were a Trump contingent.
lamh36
@Ruckus: Not keeping the mattress…shoulda chucked it long ago. So just the frame which includes headboard and footboard.
hovercraft
These people are taking their impending loss really well.
How many morons will say fuck the pitchforks I’m grabbing my AR-15
Ruviana
@lamh36: Go look at an empty one and measure. I can’t remember the size of the one I rented when I moved out of the country for an extended period but it held the entire contents of my one-bedroom apartment, including a fridge and small stove. It was packed very very carefully.
Thoughtful David
@Iowa Old Lady:
Absolutely those were smart moves. Being darned near socialist myself, I don’t have any problem with it. My problem is with the fact that these assholes (including my sister-in-law and at least one of my nephews) are just fine with their own personal communism, but want to stop everyone else from doing what they’re doing, because “they don’t deserve it.”
BTW, they’re only about 45 miles from Garden City KS, where the good militia boys (snark) that were arrested yesterday were going to attach the mosque.
Spanky
I know a lot of you here do not believe in God and I respect your right to to do so. When the Pope came preaching the same message as Christ(“be kind to one another,love one another,treat people the way you want to be treated”), the world seemed to pause. When he left it went back to crazy town. And even in the midst of all this hailstorm, God is still trying to reach us.
The man they called Bone. I heard him say that he couldn’t make up his mind between his self interest by voting for Trump or the community interest by voting for Clinton.
That is what I have seen throughout this whole thing.
The utter self entitlement of people on the right especially those who claim to be Christian. They choose to remain blind.
Major Major Major Major
@Frank Wilhoit:
This is like trying to say the tories are the UKIP are the National Front. There are degrees and shades and some conservatives aren’t evil. Some aren’t even racist!
ETA: Of course it’s not legitimate, but they’re different ideologies. Just like left-wing labor populism isn’t the same as globalist techno-socialism, even though they’re both ‘liberal’ and people who believe in each tend to vote for Democrats.
JPL
@Shell: The butler did it!
PPCLI
@hovercraft: isn’t this man the head law enforcement official of Milwaukee? Is that not a bit disturbing?
Hal
Meanwhile, in my neck of the woods.
http://buffalonews.com/2016/10/14/seneca-babcock-man-defends-noose-front-lawn-message-distress/
His angry, ok. But not racist. Of course, if my parents names me Egbert I’d be pissed too.
David Evans
@Baud: The British invented butlers. Sorry about that.
Lizzy L
We shouldn’t underestimate the deep emotional appeal of conspiracy theories. Human beings like having someone to blame for what we perceive to be wrongs done to us, and Trump is providing someone to blame, with enough moving parts to appeal to anybody — international bankers, corporations, the federal government, the media, the Clinton machine… Recognizing that all these powerful forces are arrayed against you (and knowing that they are in league with each other!) allows his supporters to feel justified in rage, even in violence. (The tree of liberty yadda yadda blood of patriots.) The rallies empower the mob. Fortunately, the rallies are ephemeral, and seriously organizing a grass roots political movement to make real change is grindingly difficult. I don’t think the Trumpists will do it.
trollhattan
@hovercraft:
All of them, Katie. They’ll meet at Golden Corral and being people of action will decide they need to “meet more often.”
MomSense
@lamh36:
Headboard, footboard, and bed rails are quite thin and can be stacked on top of other furniture with enough padding (blankets, quilt or comforter) between them to prevent scratching. Can you remove the dining room table top from the legs? If so that can also be stacked on top of something else.
Is there some kind of storage room tetras program online? If there isn’t a tech person here should invent one and give me a cut.
hellslittlestangel
@Baud: Well, a real fascist is being treated as a legitimate presidential candidate, so whaddaya gonna do?
shomi
Racists never change. The Mississippi burning people never changed till the day they died. Anyone who tells you they can change doesn’t know what they are talking about.
It’s only the next generation that can change. So after seeing a black man as president…for example…and doing a damn good job at it.
Bigots can be swayed to some extent….not full blown racists.
Lizzy L
@lamh36: It might work if you can stack things. I recommend using old blankets and quilts to avoid dinging good wood surfaces, if there are any such. If everything is all beat up, it might not matter. The last time I did a big move I went to the local Goodwill and bought a bunch of old blankets and quilts, cheap, and wrapped the good furniture with them. It worked. When everything was moved, and I didn’t need them any more, I donated them back.
Bess
@Zinsky:
Not a problem. There’s plenty oil available at about $60/barrel. Fuel for less than $5/gallon.
And we are very short years from purchase price equity for EVs and ICEVs. And after that EVs will become cheaper to purchase than gasmobiles.
We’re on the cusp of an incredible change in where we get our energy. Lots of affordable oil will be left in the ground. That’s already the case with coal.
Frankensteinbeck
A) Hillary is a better person than I am, but that doesn’t surprise me. She’s devoted her life to social activism, after all.
B) ‘Ignored’ and ‘forgotten’ by who? Trump’s supporters will still own the Republican Party. The media will still wring its hands about why Democrats should reach out to ‘white working class voters.’ Democratic policies will still benefit everyone. A few more folks will have realized the festering hate Republicanism is built on. That’s all.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: In Baud! We Trust.
shomi
@Zinsky: Haha..just STFU Pantswetter. You people, always looking for something to wank about.
You people were saying the same stupid shit about the tea party. Remember those people, yea same people only there are less of them now as they all slowly die off.
Wag
@Spanky:
Interesting perspective on Bone.
I hope that he comes to the realization that improving the community will, in the long run, lead to greater good for Bone, as well. Kind of analogous in the end to long term investment strategies winning out over short term market chasing.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA:
E Pluribus Baudum!
jl
Minor issue in the grand scheme of things, but Yglesias has been writing better stuff lately.
I saw something from him, where it looks like he busted out an intro text on international trade and finance, looked through it and had an epiphany that maybe exploited, some for all practical purposes enslaved, lower income country workers are not living in free trade free market paradise.
Hope he keeps it up, I’ll see next time I read some detailed analysis of trade policy, for example. But, I need to find another outlet for my bitter bile.
Edit: has been a big increase in incomes for lower income workers in lower income countries. But most of that is China, and they are losing jobs to more ruthless competitors. But the tell, is, just ‘big rise’ is not the standard. Economic growth has been happening most of the time for thousands of years, and over time, ‘big rise’ is just what should be expected. The standard should be are lower wage workers as a whole, getting a better life compared to the previous international trade and finance regime, before the late 1990s. The data says that they are not.
Matt McIrvin
@BGinCHI:
In my town in supposedly blue Massachusetts, the only signs for a presidential candidate I see are for Trump. (My guess is that the town as a whole is more Democratic than Republican, but my whiter-than-average neighborhood is probably the opposite.) There aren’t a gigantic number of these Trump signs, but they’re so big and extravagant, and their owners are so often fond of putting up additional hostile signs about politicians-with-balls and jailing Hillary all over their yards, that they make an impression.
I suspect the Clinton supporters are too scared of damage to their homes or persons to put up signs. I know that’s my motivation.
Maybe there’s some kind of symmetry operating here. I’ve heard elsewhere that visible enthusiasm for Trump seems to be low in the red states that he’ll win easily. In the blue states, though, the Trumpist minority go fucko bazoo.
Villago Delenda Est
@waysel: An incredible memory. Yup, that’s the ticket! Incredible!
Baud
@jl:
Agree. He’s been great in pushing back against anti-Hillary bias in the media.
Ked
So I needed some soothing text and went looking for the old CoverItLive entries on this blog for the 2012 and 2008 elections, and was disappointed when I found the blog entries but the actual applet thingies wouldn;t render.
Does anyone have text dumps or anything of the event threads?
Brachiator
@Baud:
Trump is an actual fascist who is treated like a celebrity, so the precedent has been set.
hovercraft
@Iowa Old Lady:
Party ID used to be fairly even till Bush the younger tarnished the GOP, ever since the democrats have had about a four point (give or take) advantage in party ID. The result has been that independents skew republican because there are very few true independents. The millennials are more inclined to register as independent, largely because they’ve come of age watching the Teahadists destroy our political system and grind everything to a halt, and they succeeded in convincing many of them that both sides were equally to blame. Largely because our feckless media who perpetuate that very bullshit. I’m pretty sire that the audience was pretty skewed towards independent voters because they are the swath of voters the media believes are most important to gauging the outcome of the election.
In 2012 RMoney won their votes 50 to 45 over Obama.
So even if he won them, that is not the magic bullet to winning the election.
shomi
So many posts about how many Trump vs Hillary signs people see. Like that actually means something…..lol. Ball Juice comments never fail to amuse me.
Jeffro
@Matt McIrvin:
And lo, a new euphemism is born…a very accurate one btw.
scav
@David Evans: Guy in charge of the wine cellar, bottles and buttery? Poor old Brits may have had a hand in refining and defining the current incarnation and persona, but the buteler / butelier / botellier means we can ascribe at least part of the blame to the Anglo-Normans, Old Normans and Old French. Always more fun if we can blame the Normans bastard Normans Norman bastards.
The Thatcher pimp and internationally witness (double 0 zero) for hire, that’s totally on the Brits.
Ked
@Ked: Oh, wait, I got it by going to a less-picky browser. Still, it would be nice to be able to archive these somewhere.
The issue seems to be http content not automatically rendering on https pages. IE gives you the option by default, the other browsers do not.
Edit – picky, not pocky. Mmmmm, pocky.
Taylor
@Bess: We are swimming in oil now because [insert your favorite theory; I think the US has asked the Saudis to open their spigots o undermine Putin.] This will not continue.
Meanwhile climate change is galloping ahead of the most pessimistic predictions of how bad things could get.
The power for EVs has to be generated somewhere. And then you have the crumbling energy infrastructure in this country, that leaks like a sieve. Gore suggested that Obama spend $1T upgrading it.
Matt McIrvin
@Iowa Old Lady:
Not necessarily true. The “undecideds” were just the people picked to ask questions. The rest of the audience wasn’t undecideds; the candidates were allowed to pack it with their supporters. That was something that a lot of the commentary on the debate got wrong.
mainmata
@gene108: West Va. is the most tragic example of this. It was a major focus of Johnson’s War on Poverty and both of its longstanding Senators Byrd and Rockefeller made sure that large earmarked investments went to the state. But the geography and culture have marked this place: it is a state of mountains and hollows: very beautiful but composed of largely isolated, rural, white (whitest state in the USA), deeply conservative Protestant communities. Many of them work in the now-dying and thoroughly worker-exploited coal mining industry. If West Va. is going to change and I think there is enough human capital to make that happen, it’s going to require a demand-driven change in its political culture, which is nominally Democratic but deeply Republican in reality. I actually have more confidence in West Va. than in KY, which is more prosperous but much more reactionary
Thoughtful David
@Major Major Major Major:
Maybe so, but those are all fools, for believing that their co-Republicans or co-conservatives aren’t evil and racist.
sukabi
@Shell: pretty sure the sketchy Brit was it…
catclub
Did anyone point out the roundtable at politico with Trump biographers?
It was informative. They have fairly uniform opinions that Trump is showing who is has always been, but still interesting.
Example:
Davebo
@lamh36: I’ve got to believe you could make that work.
sukabi
@Major Major Major Major: soooo, the butler’s hands aren’t the issue…
}=•þ
Davebo
@Taylor: The Saudis haven’t increased production, we have.
And it sucks! I really miss $3.00 a gallon gasoline!
lamh36
Worse thing about being single and moving…having to decide whether or not to get other folks assistance which would likely be cheaper, or go with tried and true professionals..who is gonna do things on YOUR schedule…
Sigh…everybody got ideas, but no one wants to adhere to YOUR schedule…sigh.
This is why I usually just CHUCK shit when I move…My move from Texas to NOLA…if it didn’t fit in my SUV…it DIDN’T come with me.
Now I have a Hyundai Sonata…so even LESS can go with me…
Brachiator
@scav:
And yesterday, October 14, was the day that started the Norman ball rolling. Battle of Hastings, October 14, 1066, and all that.
Hal
@Spanky: Ken Bone. Lover of pregnancy porn and a man who thinks Trayvon Martin’s murder was justified. He’s an idiot people need to stop promoting. Fuck undecided voters. This election is ridiculous. Trump says grab them by the pussy. Hillary Clinton talks about renewable energy sources. Ken Bone type voters: “Holy shit! They’re both terrible!!” Fuck em all.
Mike in NC
@shomi: But…but…but…Peggy Noonan!
Davebo
@lamh36: That’s the reason I have never owned a truck.
If you can afford it, movers are the way to go. Nothing better than drinking a beer and saying “let’s try it over there..”
Taylor
@Davebo: Bloomberg (for example).
I take your point that there has been a major jump in US oil production, though still lagging the Saudis…. I still say it only adds credence to my theory……
OT but I thought I heard some weasel bleating in the background…..must be the TV…..
Ian
@ Matthew Yeglesias
I argue with all 3. 1) her economic policy proposal and what actually get accomplished are 2 very, VERY, different things. We saw this in 2008.
2,3) same argument to both points. The people who believe these things will not change their beliefs. More acceptance of diversity caused them to be more open of their bigotry (I meant to type beliefs…)
MattF
@Jeffro: How do you know it’s a euphemism?
Davebo
@Taylor:
Not anymore
bemused
When I think about the wingnuts in my area, most of them live on sheer orneriness and get more ornery as they age. They wouldn’t be any less ornery even if their hero Trump won. Nothing will make them happy, not for long.
I also think that right wing leaning people that grew up rural/small town and never ventured out resent those who left. They think they are looked down on by people who are not just like them or live just like them. They want to be as un-pc as they want to, sexist, racist, xenophobic and so on and to be respected for it at the same time. The attitude is “you’re not the boss of me, you people who think you know everything”.
Ian
@gene108:
Democratic office holders won rural voters until about 1976. The reasons they primarily win in urban areas now are a concentration of minority groups in urban areas, the overall swing of voters in urban areas of any race to be Democratic, and the high level of religious Evangelical affiliation to rural areas.
lamh36
My mood right now!!!
Gelfling 545
@Davebo: Tried to tell my nephew this just last week. He is finally, dog be praised, moving from Indiana which is no place for a gay man from NY. He finally found a suitable position in NY and was going to do the move himself with, as they say, a little help from his friends. Well, as luck would have it, he broke his hand shifting furniture. He’ll be calling the professionals on Monday.
sukabi
@hovercraft: the only conclusion to be drawn from the “oh no!! Wikileaks” brigade is that prion disease has over taken the beltway punditry.
Lizzy L
@catclub: Thanks for the Politico link: that’s an interesting discussion. Worth reading.
Mike J
Nothing says rigged like severing ties with your party chair in a must win swing state.
Donald Trump campaign denounces, severs ties with Ohio Republican Party Chairman Matt Borges
WaterGirl
@lamh36: I am intrigued by the tv moving and the storage… Did I miss something? Are you moving?
Ian
@SenyorDave:
Be honest with yourself. What would it take to make you vote for a Rethuggie? Then apply that logic. I would vote for Lyndon Larouche before Mitt Romney.
different-church-lady
Well, 40% of our voters, at any rate. We will know the exact figure down to two decimal places some weeks after November 9.
Matt McIrvin
@Ian: Bernie Sanders lives in a tiny, atypical area of the United States where the Democratic Party still wins white rural voters. It’s basically Vermont and western New Hampshire, plus the Berkshires. Maybe some adjoining bits of upstate New York.
It’s basically the only place in the whole country that is like that, aside from maybe some parts of the northern Midwest where the Democrats have some residual but fading pull. They won northern Maine in 2012 but I don’t think that’s going to happen any more.
His regional affiliation might be part of the reason that Bernie seemed to maybe have some crossover appeal to these people more widely. Also part of the reason he had some trouble connecting to the rest of the Democratic coalition.
Lizzy L
@Ian: Yeah, no. An ex-friend of mine was part of the LaRouche cult for quite a few years. It completely severed him from his family, including his mother, who adored him. His absorption by the LaRouche cult broke her heart. If the Democrats had run Donald Trump, would you vote for him? Depending on who the alternative was, I’d vote for the R. If the R was oh, let’s say Ted Cruz, I’d vote for anybody else (no, not Gary Johnson or Jill Stein), I’d write someone in, or I would, I suppose, choose not to vote. Trump against Romney? I’d vote for Romney, and then vote for all the down ballot Democrats.
dr. luba
@shomi: And hurting/bankrupting Iran is an additional benefit for the Saudis.
Aleta
Trump will spend the next four years demanding what? The buried results from Hillary’s 10/19 drug test ?
Matt McIrvin
@Lizzy L: LaRouche versus Trump would be a really hard choice. I might actually prefer Trump, because LaRouche is more of a true believer.
Joel
@BGinCHI: I saw plenty of Trump signs up north of Pittsburgh. Mostly north of Fox Chapel. Wealthier (if not outright wealthy), older, white folk. Emphasis on the white. Some of those towns are 95+ percent white. Some of those signs were *big*.
gene108
@trollhattan:
Kind of sad, when you think about it. The original Montreal Protocol was signed off by Ronald Reagan. Bush, Sr. signed the Clean Air Act of 1990 to combat acid rain in the Midwest.
For the life of me, I cannot picture any potential Republican President today, when presented with solid scientific data that an environmental problem is being created by industrial practices that will have irreparable harm to the planet and humanity’s chances of surviving on it, to do a damn thing to have industry change its practices.
Taylor
@Davebo: Point taken, I was looking at old data.
However, if oil production does continue at these levels, we will blow past the worst case scenarios for climate change in this century.
That’s the whole point of opposition to the shale gas pipeline.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@Hal:
“Egbert Bickley” sounds like a name Dickens might have thought up for a minor, slightly repellent (but not completely evil) character before he had had his coffee.
Ian
@David Evans:
Don’t short the Chinese because they didn’t speak you language 9,000 years ago.
I am willing to bet every penny in the bank the idea of a perfect servant who catered to your every need existed more than the Victorian era.
Soylent Green
We will always have the twenty seven percent, give or take a few points. And we will always have entrenched self interests corrupting the system. But hopefully we can squeeze in a few reforms here and there.
Trumpists will abandon Trump once he is covered with loser stink. But they will find new champions. Someone savvy enough not to run against himself.
Lizzy L
@Matt McIrvin: Good lord that’s an ugly choice.
And there are folks out there — I’ve encountered them — who think our current choice is similar in nature. They’ve completely bought into the CDS stories. I toggle between incredulity and pity.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
@Lizzy L:
This afternoon, I attended a two-hour Voter Protection training session for poll watchers and observers, organized and conducted by the Democratic Party of Georgia. We had, at a guess, 35 people there taking the training, and it was the second session of the day. They had about 15-20 people this morning.
Trainer mentioned in passing that the Republicans had around 50 people for the entire state. They are not trained; they’re simply handed an instruction manual.
Today’s Dem sessions, by contrast, were for metro Atlanta, and they are doing at least three additional on-line trainings as well as other in-person sessions elsewhere in the state. We won’t have a poll watcher for every voting precinct in the state, of course, but we’ll have many times the numbers that the GOP is mustering. And AFAIK, the Pubs will have people deployed only on Election Day, whereas we have folks assigned every day of advance voting as well as November 8th.
I still don’t know whether HRC can take Georgia, but if she doesn’t it won’t be for want of trying. Or enthusiasm.
SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch
Well SHIT. Wrote a nice long response to Lizzy L, which I unaccountably failed to compose in Note, so of course it disappeared into the blue ether. Not in mod, no bad words, just “poof!” gone.
Villago Delenda Est
@SiubhanDuinne, liberal mob enforcer bitch: Word Press is a cruel mistress.
sukabi
@catclub: interesting discussion, biographers reaffirmed what anybody with eyes, ears, and half a functioning brain has been able to figure out the last year just by listening to drumpf talk and interact with people.
Not an act, he is genuinely toxic.
Ken
@trollhattan:
And the problem solves itself, as they all end up dead of cholesterol overdose.
PatrickG
@Matt McIrvin: in that scenario, the process has failed so badly I think other questions would be more pressing. Like: “Where can I find water that doesn’t have dead bodies floating in it?”
Davebo
@Taylor: I seriously doubt Keystone will ever be built. It’s just not economically feasible and assumes a large increase in Gulf Coast refining capacity will happen and I doubt it will.
Davis X. Machina
@Brachiator: Got a #saxonlivesmatter tweet from a medievalist earlier this week.
Li'l Innocent
@lamh36: Pretty sure yes.
Tripod
@Davebo:
It was stupid for Trumka to start squawking about it. Especially after eight years of the GOP shitting all over Obama’s infrastructure spends. Like the meatheads in the rustbelt crying about manufacturing – anybody remember state after state refusing the ARRA money? Like for Amtrak in Ohio to connect the three Cs? No rail industry manufacturing there… no sireee…. derp, derp, derp, but they sure showed that Obama.
They are perfectly happy drowning themselves in Norquist’s bathtub rather than extending liberty, equality, and fraternity to women or minorities.
Joel
@Baud: The Atlantic has Fallows and Coates, at least.
Cacti
Who said they were closet bigots?
They’re loud and proud about it.
Gvg
@lamh36: electronics like tv’s don’t store well. Leave them unused for 6 months and when you plug them back in, you may get a pop and then a dead tv. You should try to plug in and use sometimes or loan it to someone. I was told this after the tv died.
danielx
@BGinCHI:
Quite true.
If you were in the Region, I wouldn’t expect a lot of Trump enthusiasts.
Fermion T. Clown
@Brachiator:
They don’t make October 14ths like they useta.
uh, Julian, I mean.
Prescott Cactus
I agree.
5 hours of door to door today. My legs feel like tubes of Jello with blisters.
Ripley
Pantswetters / BallJuice 2020: because STFU you people!
m.j.
This shit has been around awhile and is not going away. Elected representatives will keep abusing their power and moneyed interests will guide them.
This Science Friday segment really pissed me off.
Ruckus
@lamh36:
You might just make it with judicious packing. The dresser might fit corner to corner with the bed apart and in the back corner and the TVs on top of the dresser. A 5×5 would be easier, with the 4×4 you might not be able to move the dresser into the unit because you couldn’t turn it. However if you can stand it on one end that would help. Blankets etc on the floor, dresser on one end, the rest of the list could all go in.
redshirt
@Lizzy L: Gads, what a horrible proposition.
hugely
@rikyrah: lol
thats what I call her too :)
evgen
@Taylor: The problem with claiming fracking is bad for the climate is that the only reason the US CO2 production _dropped_ in the past few years is that fracking has made natural gas incredibly cheap. So cheap that it is more cost effective to rip out an old coal power plant and replace it with a gas-fired one than it is to keep using coal. The switch from coal to gas as the fuel of choice for electricity generation has done more for US CO2 reduction than anything else. If the greens were truly interested in reducing US CO2 emissions instead of using climate change as a lever with which to gain power in other areas they would be working harder to improve regulations on fracking side-effects and then pushing fracking hard. Nothing else will kill coal faster.
Bill Arnold
Annie Laurie at original post, dead thread I know but I wanted to thank you for finding and sharing that Clinton quote. It shows an unexpected (to me) level of awareness of the fault lines, new and old, that have been opened in U.S. society in this election cycle, and of a sense of obligation to work hard towards fixing them. This is a very good thing, if true. One possibility is that she is listening to one or more advisors who have some talent for seeing and working with the mid/long-term currents in society. (Also she’s been getting better at this stuff herself over the last decade, IMHO.) Focus on election first of course.