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Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / Excellent Read: “In Conversation: David Letterman”

Excellent Read: “In Conversation: David Letterman”

by Anne Laurie|  March 6, 20179:49 pm| 64 Comments

This post is in: Excellent Links, Hail to the Hairpiece, Media, Nature & Respite, Television

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We need a respite, or at least I do. From NYMag, something to break the political monotony:

Since retiring after 33 years on the late night television, David Letterman has kept a low public profile — aided by the growth of a truly impressive beard. But that doesn’t mean he hasn’t been as fixated on politics as the rest of us. “If I still had a show,” says the 69-year-old, dressed in a baggy sweater and cargo pants and sitting high above midtown Manhattan in a conference room at his publicist’s offices, “people would have to come and take me off the stage. ‘Dave, that’s enough about Trump. We’ve run out of tape.’ It’s all I’d be talking about. I’d be exhausted.” Late-night TV comedy has offered some of the sharpest — and most-remarked-upon — responses to the Trump presidency. But despite the work of Stephen Colbert, Seth Meyers, Saturday Night Live, and the rest, it’s hard not to wish Letterman, late-night’s greatest ironist and most ornery host, was still around to take aim. And so we’ve brought him out of retirement to weigh in on life after television and his old frequent guest and punching bag, the man he calls Trumpy…

David Marchese: Have you ever wondered what you might’ve said if you’d been doing The Late Show the night after Trump was elected?
No, I haven’t thought about it. See, I was out running one day when he was still president-elect, and I thought, Let’s call him. I’ve known the guy since the ’80s. I was one of a few people who had routinely interviewed him. I’m not blinded by the white-hot light of “president-elect.” I mean, we elected a guy with that hair? Why don’t we investigate that? He looks like Al Jardine of the Beach Boys. I don’t know. I’m sorry for rambling. I’m afraid something has happened to me hormonally. I can’t stop talking…

There’s this idea that reducing Trump to a punchline could make him seem harmless or helps to normalize him. Is there any validity to that argument?
I guess it’s a possibility. On the other hand, Donald Trump can be Donald Trump, but if he doesn’t help the people that need help, then he’s just a jerk. That press conference that he held berating the news media? I mean, how do you build a dictatorship? First, you undermine the press: “The only truth you’re going to hear is from me.” And he hires the Hunchback of Notre Dame, Steve Bannon, to be his little buddy. Bannon looks like a guy who goes to lunch, gets drunk, and comes back to the office: “Steve, could you have just one drink?” “Fuck you.” How is a white supremacist the chief adviser to our president? Did anybody look that up? I don’t know. How’s this interview going? Do you think you’re talking to a normal person here? Don’t I seem like I’m full of something?…

For probably the first half or so of your TV career, you stayed away from politics —
Because Carson was my model. I’ll tell you the other thing: All of that changed because of Jon Stewart.

Because what he did on The Daily Show influenced you?
I wouldn’t say that, but he made it so that not doing political stuff got to be the elephant in the room. And also it was having Monica Lewinsky and President Clinton. It was hard to ignore that. We’re always looking for the easiest path, the most obvious joke. Bill Clinton having sex with the intern, well, that’s not comedic heavy lifting. After that it became George W. Bush, and I thought he was funny in a harmless way. I mean, Dick Cheney was the guy to keep your eye on at a party, because he’d be going through your wife’s purse. But George W. was nothing but fun.

So the political jokes were about expedience?
We changed our attitude to make it easier on ourselves. And again, what defense do you have for ignoring these topics? None, really…

Aside from the hunt for viral videos, it seems like late night also had a shift in its style of comedy. It moved away from the irony and sarcasm you were known for and toward something more earnest. I mean, Jay Leno would seem like a smartass now. Did you notice that shift happening?
No, I didn’t. I was so single-minded in getting through the hour, and sarcasm is so easy. The quote is “Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.” If you can’t think of something funny, say something sarcastic. That worked and also got me in a lot of trouble. People would accuse me of being mean. Well, yes, sarcasm probably is mean; but on the other hand, I’m just trying to get a laugh, so leave me alone. “Hey, nice shirt” — ha-ha-ha. Big, big laugh: “Nice shirt.” Good night, everybody!…

If you could snap your fingers and make it happen, who’d be a dream interview for you?
I think about that all the time. It would be great to talk to Bob Marley. Because when Bob Marley left us, he was politically active. He was the biggest musical star in the world, and he came from such desperate circumstances. It seems like we don’t have that person now whose life and music and behavior apply to soothing the waters of world strife…

Going back to the late-night wars — doesn’t the fact that you and so many viewers cared so much about who was winning late night seem a little crazy? Why did it matter who was No. 1? Both shows were being seen by millions of people.
I cared. Jay cared. I can remember being on Johnny Carson’s show toward the end of his run, and during the commercial break I said, “Honestly, what’s the deal here?” Because he seemed like he was still the Johnny that we all loved. And he said, “I want to go out on top.” So he cared. When I began, if you didn’t have a 30 share, get in your car and go home. For a time, I looked at the ratings every single morning. If our number was bigger than The Tonight Show’s number, I would feel good. If it was not as big, I would feel bad. That was every day. Now I don’t know if anybody cares. I keep saying to people, “Where are the late-night wars?” “Oh, the U.N. came in and Ban Ki-moon put a stop to it.”…

It’s no secret you were slightly insanely self-critical and competitive about your work. Now that the show is no longer part of your life, are those qualities still around?
Yes, but not in a crippling, paralyzing way. A friend of mine, my doctor, said, “You know, you don’t need to kill yourself. It’s just TV.” Then he convinced me to try one of these selective-serotonin-reuptake inhibitors. I resisted it. I thought, No, just put me in a state hospital. But I did try it, and suddenly that wiring had less power than it used to. I still have vestiges of it — I think that’s about where you want to be. You don’t want to be putting your fist through a wall, but I can’t imagine going through life not questioning my own worthiness. So, yes, I still have those qualities, but in a lower gear…

How about in this moment, then? Is there anything about your career you can say you’re proud of?
I have this conversation with my wife, who is also a schmo. And she will say, “Thirty years. Think of all of the people you employed.” I thought, Yeah, by God, that’s good enough. I was able to give jobs to people. That’s an accomplishment.

You’re being maybe excessively self-deprecating.
People are so much nicer to me now that I’m not on the air that my impression of myself is beginning to soften, but I’m sticking with jobs as my accomplishment…

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Reader Interactions

64Comments

  1. 1.

    debbie

    March 6, 2017 at 9:59 pm

    I still miss Letterman. He was by far the best interviewer on television.

  2. 2.

    jacy

    March 6, 2017 at 9:59 pm

    This was a fascinating interview. Really enjoyed reading it the other day.

  3. 3.

    amk

    March 6, 2017 at 10:00 pm

    “Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.”

    Hear that, bj’ers?

  4. 4.

    Mark Haag

    March 6, 2017 at 10:01 pm

    One important thing this interview missed: Letterman was one of the few people talking about Climate Change during the years when “the news” wasn’t.

  5. 5.

    NotMax

    March 6, 2017 at 10:08 pm

    late-night’s greatest ironist and most ornery host

    Ironist: Steve Allen. Ornery: Tom Snyder. Letterman qualifies as irascible and, as he himself points out, sarcastic (at least during his heyday, before putting the whole production on cruise control year after year after year).

  6. 6.

    satby

    March 6, 2017 at 10:09 pm

    I might miss Letterman a bit, but I’m going to really miss Robert Osborne.

  7. 7.

    Chris

    March 6, 2017 at 10:15 pm

    @satby: Was that sarcasm? That was sarcasm, wasn’t it?

  8. 8.

    Omnes Omnibus

    March 6, 2017 at 10:17 pm

    @amk: At least it is a form of wit.

  9. 9.

    rikyrah

    March 6, 2017 at 10:17 pm

    Letterman is a smart guy

  10. 10.

    Gin & Tonic

    March 6, 2017 at 10:19 pm

    @satby: Maybe, but did Osborne drop bowling balls off of 5-story buildings? Or have a Velcro suit?

  11. 11.

    donnah

    March 6, 2017 at 10:20 pm

    I had a feeling that Jon Stewart is missing his show now that Trump is in. He keeps popping in to the Stephen Colbert show and he has a lot to say. And Stephen is doing a great job; he’s ruthless.

  12. 12.

    Omnes Omnibus

    March 6, 2017 at 10:21 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Sure he did. He just didn’t film it.

  13. 13.

    NotMax

    March 6, 2017 at 10:23 pm

    @satby

    Seconded about Mr. Osborne.

    When he returned to TCM after a 3 or 4 month absence, change in his stance and movement led me to speculate he now wore an ostomy bag and it was just a matter of time. Still a loss to be acknowledged.

    Another one missed from the glowing screen (who was far and away TV’s greatest interviewer in the post-Murrow age) is Brian Lamb, still with us.

  14. 14.

    amk

    March 6, 2017 at 10:23 pm

    @donnah: Colbear has been given a bit of msm freedom and he is killing it.

  15. 15.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    March 6, 2017 at 10:23 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: or an alka-seltzer suit? or drive around LA in a convertible Rolls, eating fast food with Zsa Zsa Gabor? Or keep an Oprah journal? I loved it when dave softened and started talking about hunger and climate, but damn did I miss him lobbing snark grenades at Herself.

  16. 16.

    Gin & Tonic

    March 6, 2017 at 10:27 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Didn’t he almost suffocate from that Alka-Seltzer suit?

  17. 17.

    Mary G

    March 6, 2017 at 10:28 pm

    I bought a VCR in the early 80s for an insanely high price just because I was staying up too late for Letterman. After he went to CBS I fell away, but those early years were great.

  18. 18.

    Mnemosyne

    March 6, 2017 at 10:32 pm

    @Chris:

    Unfortunately, Robert Osborne’s death from natural causes was announced today. As other people have said, he had been in visibly bad health for a couple of years now, and he was in his mid-80s, but TCM fans are very sad today.

    I’m assuming that TCM will do some kind of tribute, but I haven’t been following their website to see what it might be.

  19. 19.

    Omnes Omnibus

    March 6, 2017 at 10:33 pm

    @Mary G: Moving to an earlier time slot put some limitations on what he was able to do.

  20. 20.

    amk

    March 6, 2017 at 10:33 pm

    the nutjob, no, the other one, bans ferriners from leaving his country.

  21. 21.

    PsiFighter37

    March 6, 2017 at 10:34 pm

    @amk: I do wonder what would have happened to Colbert if Hillary had won. The Late Show was floundering quite a bit, but Trump has basically allowed Colbert to embrace the political shtick (which he has always been excellent at) without having to do the soft crap that the network heads were trying to push him to do, a la Jimmy Fallon. And he’s winning the network late-show ratings battle, which is icing on the cake. I’ve always seen Fallon as largely a no-talent hack who laughs way too easily at his own jokes and was given a leg up on everything by Lorne Michaels, even though he was nowhere close to being as talented as most of his contemporaries on SNL.

  22. 22.

    Mnemosyne

    March 6, 2017 at 10:35 pm

    Also, too, I tweaked my back this weekend AND am fighting off a migraine, so it’s an unpleasant evening. Ugh.

  23. 23.

    amk

    March 6, 2017 at 10:37 pm

    @PsiFighter37: yeah, twitler is a boon to him but still miss his tonight’s word pieces from the cable world.

  24. 24.

    mere mortal

    March 6, 2017 at 10:37 pm

    The man may never understand that, who Carson was to him, he was to us.

  25. 25.

    NotMax

    March 6, 2017 at 10:39 pm

    @Mary G

    Old enough to remember Letterman’s daytime show (on ABC, IIRC)?

  26. 26.

    Mike E

    March 6, 2017 at 10:40 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: My niece tried the suit and got teevee interviewed being stuck to a wall… Dave’s most dangerous stunt was rushing that Croatian barber while he was getting a shave

  27. 27.

    Yarrow

    March 6, 2017 at 10:40 pm

    @Mary G: I really loved his Late Night show. It had a certain freedom that his bigger show on CBS never seemed to have.

  28. 28.

    PaulB

    March 6, 2017 at 10:42 pm

    Off-topic: Andy Slavitt is killing it on Twitter about the new Republican Health Care Plan.

  29. 29.

    Mike J

    March 6, 2017 at 10:43 pm

    @NotMax: It was on NBC. I would cut class and go home and watch it.

  30. 30.

    Yarrow

    March 6, 2017 at 10:44 pm

    @PsiFighter37: I watched the first couple of shows when Colbert moved to CBS but couldn’t really get into it. I don’t really want to watch him interview celebrities anyway. I adored The Colbert Report and still miss him. I’ve heard the show has improved. Is it worth a watch now?

    I heard that Jon Stewart keeps showing up on it. Wonder if he’ll get back on TV somehow. I thought he had some HBO deal but haven’t heard anything about that.

  31. 31.

    different-church-lady

    March 6, 2017 at 10:45 pm

    @Mary G: I hope you still have your tapes. I still have mine, and when Dave retired I realized those tapes were going to be special. Because in order to understand Letterman’s brilliance, you had to watch an entire show from beginning to end, and witness how he’d get running gags to snowball, or revisit gags you thought were over, or leave a lame bit at the start of the show that would set up something hysterical later on.

    I will never forget the show that involved (the now deeply disgraced) Bill Cosby, Tito Puente, a cab driver hailed at random on Broadway, and a ladder from the stage to the balcony. It’s far too complicated to explain how it all went down, but by the end of the show the guy’s cab was on stage and Dave had asked his officially booked guests a grand total of one question, which was, “How are you, Bill?” You just had to see the whole thing to understand.

  32. 32.

    Mike J

    March 6, 2017 at 10:46 pm

    Maybe more a Adam question, but would a THAAD system do any good against a howitzer? Why would DPRK use missiles against South Korea?

  33. 33.

    SiubhanDuinne

    March 6, 2017 at 10:48 pm

    @debbie:

    I loved the way he ripped McCain a new one during the 2008 campaign, when Uncle Walnuts stiffed him and then went on, I think, NBC News or something. Letterman was furious, and righteously so.

  34. 34.

    Omnes Omnibus

    March 6, 2017 at 10:49 pm

    @Mike J: No. Not a bit.

  35. 35.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2017 at 10:50 pm

    @Mike J: That’s an Omnes question, he’s the artillerist.

  36. 36.

    different-church-lady

    March 6, 2017 at 10:51 pm

    @Yarrow: Yes, every night was that “What are they going to come up with next?” anticipation — the same thing you got from Saturday Night Live in that magical 1975-78 stretch.

    Carson. Then Letterman. Then NBC News Overnight (Linda Ellerbee and Lloyd Dobyns). Those were my treasured summer late nights fresh out of High School and not yet at art school — the smartest, funniest, most adventurous three hour block of television programming there ever was.

  37. 37.

    NotMax

    March 6, 2017 at 10:53 pm

    @Mike J

    Simplest response:

    1) Because they have the capability, and
    2) Moving heavy divisions toward and across the border is both detectable and verifiable well before they get there.

  38. 38.

    SiubhanDuinne

    March 6, 2017 at 10:55 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    Carson. Then Letterman. Then NBC News Overnight (Linda Ellerbee and Lloyd Dobyns).

    Oh yes. Among them, they made insomnia a joy.

  39. 39.

    NotMax

    March 6, 2017 at 10:56 pm

    @different-church-lady

    Dobyns’ and Ellerbee’s Monitor program was must watch in the NotMax manse. Never clicked with the general public; more’s the pity.

  40. 40.

    efgoldman

    March 6, 2017 at 10:57 pm

    @NotMax:

    Old enough to remember Letterman’s daytime show (on ABC, IIRC)?

    Oh, hell, I’m old enough to remember Carson’s daily game show Who do you Trust.
    In fact, i happened to take the NBC studio tour at the right time of day, and got into the studio audience – of the live broadcast, with live stage left commercials.

  41. 41.

    NotMax

    March 6, 2017 at 10:59 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne

    Also too, CBS Nightwatch, which unfortunately was not carried in a lot of markets.

  42. 42.

    Omnes Omnibus

    March 6, 2017 at 10:59 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: How do you respond to something that is in the air for less that 40 seconds? Only with counter-battery fire. That is why FA fires a few volleys from one location and them moves to a new one. Three volleys was enough in my day for the counter-battery people to zoom in.

  43. 43.

    NotMax

    March 6, 2017 at 11:03 pm

    @efgoldman

    Ditto re: Carson’s game show, which also included Ed McMahon. Seem to recall that ABC wouldn’t let them out of their contracts so the debut on The Tonight Show was pushed back several months and a series of interim hosts (including Groucho Marx) sat in the chair behind the desk during that time.

  44. 44.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    March 6, 2017 at 11:06 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I think, NBC News or something.

    I think it was CBS, then with Katie Couric, because Letterman broadcast the network’s internal feed to show McCain getting made up– head back, eyes closed, wearing a bib and getting his face powdered– for his interview after having made a huge stink about how he was gonna get right back to Washington to roll up his sleeves and fix the Crash!

  45. 45.

    NotMax

    March 6, 2017 at 11:08 pm

    @efgoldman

    Trivia: Who Do you Trust? became the name after Carson took over the show from Edgar Bergen and Charlie McCarthy, the original program having been called Do You trust Your Wife?

  46. 46.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2017 at 11:08 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: I thought so, but I’ve just read FA doctrine, I’ve never done the job. I’ve been taught how to shoot Table 8, but have never done it – because if we’ve reached the point where the cultural advisor is specifically referencing Table 8 in a combat zone, well things are just going swimmingly… Also, someone had to fill a couple of days of training time, so we got three or four days of targeting instruction. It was interesting except for my O3 who was an artillerist and was bored to death. He told me on one of the breaks: “now I know how you feel in all the other training blocks (research design, research methodology, Middle Eastern History and Culture, Islam, etc).

    So I figured since you are around and actually know what you’re talking about, that I would defer to you.

  47. 47.

    PsiFighter37

    March 6, 2017 at 11:10 pm

    @Yarrow: I don’t really watch his interviews, but my wife watches his monologues nearly every day, and he is killing those.

    That said, he does have a more diverse set of guests and musicians on than your (previously) typical late-night show.

    If you think about it, the people who are most killing it right now are all TDS alumni (Colbert, Bee, and Oliver). I have heard good things about Seth Meyer, but being on at 12:30 AM does you no favors. Trevor Noah has steadily gotten better – and some of Jordan Klepper’s field pieces interviewing Trump supporters are golden – but he’s still too quick (IMO) to go for cheap, shallow laughs as the conclusion of a joke, as opposed to going for the hard burn.

    I’m happy Fallon is losing ground. He sucks bigly.

  48. 48.

    Omnes Omnibus

    March 6, 2017 at 11:15 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Oddly, the thing I was best at in the FA course was calling for fire. Telling the guns where the target is. It is FA’s only free form art. I was good. The army sent me to a unit where that was not needed. I did gunnery. Precise calculations. No room for elan.

  49. 49.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2017 at 11:17 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Typical conventional Army – an artillerist is an artillerist is an artillerist. A colonel is a colonel is a colonel. Until, of course, they’re not.

  50. 50.

    Mary G

    March 6, 2017 at 11:19 pm

    @NotMax: I am so old I even remember when he was on Mary Tyler Moore’s variety show for a hot second.

  51. 51.

    Another Scott

    March 6, 2017 at 11:19 pm

    @Mike J: Against artillery, one would want to put up a wall of “lead”, so you’d probably want something like a Phalanx. But even that is designed to work against missiles, not shells.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  52. 52.

    trollhattan

    March 6, 2017 at 11:21 pm

    @NotMax:
    My GF told me “You HAVE to watch this guy, I can’t believe what he’s doing, and in front of a theater full of housewives.” And she was so right, first time viewing Letterman he wanders into the audience during some bit, pauses, asks the woman whether she’s hungry, says he is too and gives her a wad of cash to go to the NBC commissary to get food for everyone. Hooked instantly.

  53. 53.

    Omnes Omnibus

    March 6, 2017 at 11:24 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Gunnery is a difficult subject. Good grades in it get a certain response. Even if you are better at other things.

  54. 54.

    Mary G

    March 6, 2017 at 11:26 pm

    @different-church-lady: I’m not an anything keeper. I recorded over and over on them until they got chewed up. But I know what you mean – it was the running gags that just grew out of stuff that were so great. I’d rush home from work to watch the last night’s tape. I even got my mom, who was born in 1923, into Letterman so much she also bought a VCR.

  55. 55.

    efgoldman

    March 6, 2017 at 11:28 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Gunnery is a difficult subject. Good grades in it get a certain response. Even if you are better at other things.

    But one of the military skills that’s not readily translatable to your civilian resume.

  56. 56.

    Omnes Omnibus

    March 6, 2017 at 11:34 pm

    @efgoldman: Yep. To be fair, calling for fire doesn’t have a huge civilian application either.

  57. 57.

    different-church-lady

    March 6, 2017 at 11:36 pm

    @trollhattan: A wad of cash! In the early days of the CBS show he had the cameras out on Broadway for “Can We Press Your Pants?” Dave asks a guy, “So, what are you doing out here tonight?” The guys says, “I’m selling Rolex watches.” Audience hysterics. Dave: “So, how much for watch?” Guy: “For you, four hundred dollars.” Dave tells an intern to go to an ATM and get some cash.

    Commercial break

    Watch-selling guy is now in the Ed Sullivan theater. Dave walks over, counts out four $100 bills, then counts a fifth one and says, “And here’s a little something for your trouble.” Guy gives him the fake Rolex. Then they take him back stage and press his pants.

  58. 58.

    BeezusQ

    March 6, 2017 at 11:36 pm

    People rarely mention Samantha Bee. She knocks it out of the park CONSTANTLY. Amazing stuff…yet, not a guy, so ignored by the press. She is worlds better than Trevor Noah, Fallon…
    Funny. Intelligent. Literate. Spot on. She and Oliver are the absolute best. Period.

  59. 59.

    debbie

    March 6, 2017 at 11:49 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    McCain canceled right before an appearance on Letterman’s show, saying he had to rush to DC for that financial crisis “summit” with Bush and Obama. Letterman noticed on a monitor in the production booth that McCain was actually still in make-up prior to appearing live with Katie Couric on CBS news. McCain then spent the evening in NYC with some Rothschild chick, stayed at the Waldorf, and then tootled back to DC the next morning. Letterman was livid, and McCain’s refusal to apologize or say anything at all about it only made Letterman angrier. McCain was his punching bag every single night in the monologue. I think it took McCain about a month to finally apologize.

  60. 60.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    March 6, 2017 at 11:53 pm

    @BeezusQ: People rarely mention Samantha Bee

    Ross Douthat seems to be obsessed with her, and a few other conservatives single her out as being condescending to Trump voters.

    I think it’s interesting that so many TDS alums did their best work after leaving the show: Bee, Colbert, Steve Carrell. Oliver was always one of the best on the show.

  61. 61.

    Yarrow

    March 6, 2017 at 11:53 pm

    @BeezusQ: I love Sam Bee’s show. I wish it were on more than once a week with lots of off weeks. I think that’s part of why she doesn’t get mentioned as much as the people who are on several nights a week. She’s amazing. I thought she was getting a fair amount of press, though.

  62. 62.

    BBA

    March 7, 2017 at 1:38 am

    Letterman had a talent for making great television out of absolutely nothing. “Will it Float?” was admittedly a waste of valuable airtime, but between Dave and Paul puzzling out the buoyancy of random household objects and the old-school game show style of Alan Kalter I somehow found it incredibly entertaining.

  63. 63.

    Ruckus

    March 7, 2017 at 1:53 am

    @Mnemosyne:
    Read up on 400mg B2/day for migraine prevention. I’ve been on it a month and it is fantastic. In the last year I’ve had 3-5 migraines a month, since I started B2, nothing. It doesn’t work for everyone, nor for all migraines, and if you do get one it isn’t less or shorter, but it does seem to knock off the majority of mine.

  64. 64.

    JGabriel

    March 7, 2017 at 6:38 am

    @amk:

    “Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.”

    Hear that, bj’ers?

    I rely on irony. It’s a different beast.

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