Vice President Mike Pence hires outside counsel to represent him in the special counsel's Russia investigation https://t.co/vUITbSMcjT pic.twitter.com/LGXpNKERTY
— CNN (@CNN) June 15, 2017
It was generally believed, back in the day, that the GOP forced Spiro Agnew on Nixon because anybody looking to impeach Tricky Dick would hesitate at the thought of installing a notorious old-school machine pol as his replacement. Turned out, of course, that Spiro got busted for simple envelopes-stuffed-with-cash graft before that could happen… so the GOP chose Gerry Ford, a grinning nonentity with a reputation for probity based on the fact he was too dumb to get away with anything, as Agnew’s replacement.
Mike “Dense”, as second-in-line to the Asterisk-in-Chief, was supposed to combine the recoil-in-horror social policies of Agnew with the ventriloquist-dummy reliability of Ford. Nobody wants to see a man who takes so much pride in his retrograde social opinions in the Oval Office; but if it should happen, the Repubs are sure he’ll be happy to sign whatever garbage the Freedumb Caucus or the Koch / Mercer / Thiel think tanks drop on his desk.
The tricky bit is that the people pulling Trump’s strings are a lot smarter than your average Repub backroom schemer. I rate the chances of Putin not having some kompromat on Mr. Mike as approximately as high as my chances of winning a medal in the next Olympics. Even if Pence were actually burdened with political ethics — how long has he been a Republican? — Lord Smallglove’s reverse-Midas gift for befouling anyone that approaches him too closely is not a factor in his favor. From the CNN article above:
… A senior administration adviser acknowledged there have been weeks of hand-wringing behind closed doors among members of Pence’s team, and an acceptance that the questions about Russia and the Trump campaign were not disappearing. Pence has been under fire for not knowing a number of things that happened during the transition — which he led as chairman.
A number of Pence advisers and staff worked out of Trump Tower during the transition — and are now worried about being dragged into legal issues…
I just asked VP Pence about hiring a private lawyer and he said: "It's very routine. Very routine."
— Philip Rucker (@PhilipRucker) June 16, 2017
Especially for people who could be facing treason charges. https://t.co/4eDaXSLEOX
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) June 16, 2017
You're allowed to use campaign $ to pay criminal defense lawyers. Pence set up his own PAC a few weeks ago. Now has a $1000/hr lawyer.
— Salacious Materiel (@ZeddRebel) June 16, 2017
.
But, hey! There’s always Media Village Idiots looking to curry favor with a “rising star”…
Mike Pence might be the most consequential vice president ever. He could well be the next commander in chief. https://t.co/AMfIkZqwgu pic.twitter.com/KYhILjL5jK
— POLITICO (@politico) June 16, 2017
this becomes a lot less dramatic when you realize that it's just "Mike Pence is the vice president" stated twice https://t.co/KuQch75zWB
— Simon Maloy (@SimonMaloy) June 16, 2017
"After Pence abruptly exited the meeting, and several grown men had broken into tears" https://t.co/SCek7jIh0z pic.twitter.com/L5I1IDeMgK
— Katherine Miller (@katherinemiller) June 16, 2017
Just in case you worried the Beltway courier class would have trouble pivoting from ‘Trump voters continue to support him’ to ‘Mike Pence, godling among political mortals’ given the speed of the modern news cycle. Anybody prints out this article for Trump to read, the resulting twitter-tantrum should be one for the National Archives.
AnonPhenom
…..OTOH if these folks are being investigated for having a hand in the Russian hacking….
Corner Stone
Not even the whole article. Just the stated speculation that Pence could be the next CinC should have Trump looking around for ways to fire Pence.
Corner Stone
There’s nothing wrong with a good cry, but what in the hell are these guys doing wrong if it makes them cry about it?
Villago Delenda Est
This vile Mammon-worshiping twit needs to go down as much as Donald.
Frankensteinbeck
Mike Pence is the uber-evangelical. This applies in a lot of ways. He’s dumb as a stump, and believes he will win because God is on his side. (This still makes him look like a genius compared to ‘Can’t even hire a good lawyer’ Trump.) Arch-conservatives actually care what Pence thinks, and nobody cares what Trump thinks, only that he keeps hurting minorities. And finally, he is corrupt as all living fuck, with absolutely zero morals. Imposing cruelty he calls morals on other people is his ethos.
bystander
For those who need a laugh, check out this thread on a Broadway chat board.
The discussion is about the disruptions of the current Shakespeare in the Park production of Julius Caesar. Caesar is portrayed as Trumplike character. Now, that to me is a sufficient basis to storm the stage as a slur on JC. But turns out the righties’ knickers are twisted by the “normalization of violence” against trumputinites.
Corner Stone
Damn Bill Cosby. Get off my AMJoy airtime, you fucking monster!
Another Scott
Um, Ford was House Minority Leader for 8 years. He wasn’t exactly a stupid nonentity when Nixon chose him to replace Agnew.
Cheers,
Scott.
Elmo
@bystander:
Trumpites: “What if they did this play about Obama? It would be exactly the same!”
Normal people: “They did. In 2012. Nobody cared.”
Trumpites: “That was totally different!”
Another Scott
@Corner Stone: Mistrial. Hmm. That was unexpected, here.
I wonder if Donnie will be sending him a congratulatory tweet? (checks) Not yet.
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
@Elmo: Of course, History doesn’t apply unless the Teabaggers cite it.
HTH!
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
JGabriel
@Villago Delenda Est:
And before Donald. We need a new VP before Needledick Nero is impeached.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
it only takes one stubborn motherfucker who remembers Cliff Huxtable and his sweaters, no?
germy
Who else besides pence would want to be vp? Newt, maybe? Or what the heck, why not hannity?
Gelfling 545
@Villago Delenda Est: and leave us with President Ryan? No thanks. At least Pence has little chance of winning his own term.
cmorenc
Trump has to be seriously weighing whether to take the gamble of firing Mueller and counting on the GOP congressional majority lacking the will or stones to call his brash move with impeachment. If Trump can get away with firing Mueller and leaving only crippled, half-hearted, slow-motion congressional investigations going nowhere in Mueller’s place – Trump’s craving to effectively be an autocrat in the mold of Putin, with overtones of Andrew Jackson (or Trump’s notions of Andrew Jackson) can be fulfilled.
Trump thought firing Comey would achieve this very end, but instead only brought the more intense and ominous scrutiny of Mueller to bear. What’s stopping him from firing Mueller is fear that his gambit to win autocratic power is more likely to end in humiliatingly catastrophic failure than success, but if Mueller’s investigation ominously closes in on Trump personally, he may yet decide to take that gamble.
lumpkin
I kinda feel bad for these guys. I’d cry too if I couldn’t bankrupt and kill all the people I wanted to.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Took KellyAnne, Ivanka and Spicy more than twelve hours to come up with ‘thoughts and prayers’
ETA: never mind, reading too quickly
OzarkHillbilly
@Corner Stone: Breathing.
Chyron HR
@bystander:
“If your party’s policies are so unpopular that the American people are literally trying to kill you over them, maybe you’re doing something wrong.”
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
How does a modern warship, fitted with fancypants radar and such, run into a sideways floating skyscraper?
bupalos
@Elmo: The most disappointing/hilarious-sad thing about the whole Caesar kerfluffle is that you simply have to disregard all of the actual meanings of the actual play in order to throw a winger-tantrum about it. Not like I’m expecting anything else, but for anyone who actually knows and actually cares about Shakespeare, a main message of the play with Trump cast there would be not to trust the stated good intentions of the forces opposed to his “tyranny.” That they are at best shallow opportunists and at worst Nietzschian back-biters aiming at power, and that deposing the mob’s demi-god will end very badly. It’s pretty impossible to come away from the play thinking it endorses violent overthrow.
jharp
Republicans in Indiana are using taxpayer funds to advertise the success of the Healthy Indiana Plan, Pence’s version of the the ObamaCare Medicaid expansion that insures 600,000 hard working Hoosiers.
Part of me hopes that Pence cast the tie breaking vote to pulls the rug out.
It would serve dumbass redneck Hoosiers their just desserts.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@trollhattan: Bad management, which is the answer to all questions like this.
JGabriel
germy:
If we’re going on “the reputation for probity” combined with “too dumb to get away with anything” standard that Anne Laurie mentioned above, then let’s give it to Grassley, who meets that standard with spades to spare.
Or find a moderate GOP’er from a blue state who’s queasy about the AHCA, and would be unwilling to sign it if it crosses his desk – on the off chance that we can get Pence & Trump out of there before that dire event takes place.
Ken
@trollhattan: I’m sure that question will be on the Board of Inquiry’s list. I’m also wondering how the commander, who offhand you’d think would be on the bridge, took the most severe injuries. Was he out on deck with a pole trying to fend off the other ship?
MattF
@germy: Hey, why not Jared? Or Steeeeve.
OzarkHillbilly
@trollhattan: The account I read said the skyscraper unexpectedly turned into them.
gene108
Pence scares me, because the media is dying to normalize Trump. When he addressed Congress, and didn’t step on his own dick, they declared “he is now Presidential”. When he fired missiles into Syria, they declared “This is when he became our President”.
The only thing holding the media back from running cover for Trump is his own boorishness.
Pence would, policy wise, be as bad or worse than Trump, but has enough sense not to Twitter fight with people and enough message discipline to not contradict his PR people.
The media will anoint him the Greatest President Ever, if goes a week without Tweeting.
JGabriel
@cmorenc:
Given the House Republicans we have today, how much of a gamble would that really be?
Most of them are more worried about being primaried from the right than they are about losing to a Democrat in the general election.
Another Scott
@trollhattan: Heavy:
FWIW.
[eta:] The Crystal is 3-4x as massive as the Fitzgerald. It’s hard to imagine it somehow suddenly swerving into the Fitzgerald.
Cheers,
Scott.
amk
@trollhattan: The USN hasn’t covered itself in glory in the last few years, has it? Iran kerfuffle was the last one. Is this a part of warships that twitler sent to sabre rattle against his NK alter ego?
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
“most consequential vice president ever”
Admittedly, my knowledge of the office’s history is a bit rusty, but this is a claim that I’m almost certain is total horseshit.
Amir Khalid
@trollhattan:
I know the Navy captain was among the wounded, but it seems likely to me that when he recovers he’ll be told that was his last command. And he’ll wind up sailing a desk for the remainder of his career.
MattF
@Ken: Well, hitting another boat is pretty much the worst thing a commander can do. It’s understood by everyone to be a career-ending event. Always remember, if you hold a constant bearing towards any object, you’re going to hit it.
ETA: and @Amir
stinger
@Gelfling 545: Unless he starts a war.
Corner Stone
@OzarkHillbilly:
I am extremely dubious of that info.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@gene108: the R base has had the sugar-fat-salt rush of trump, no way they’re going to be statisifed with the boiled chicken and cottage cheese of Pence.
Which raises other concerns, but the threat of Pence is mostly from judicial appointments. Which are of course fucking huge.
MomSense
Grown men broke into tears because of the tension in the room and not because of the millions of us who will lose access to health care and the resulting financial ruin, suffering, and loss of life.
Good to know.
Another Scott
@Ken: The collision affected sleeping quarters, and happened at 0230 local time. See the Heavy link in my post above.
Cheers,
Scott.
grandpa john
@cmorenc:
Yeah a move that anybody with an IQ greater than 70 could have told him was a bad move
germy
Is that boat a metaphor for the current administration? Is the author of this dystopian novel we’re living in trying to inject some irony?
Corner Stone
@JGabriel:
There is no aspect of that gamble that Trump is considering. For him it will be a demonstration that he has the power and no one can stop him.
OzarkHillbilly
@Corner Stone:
You should be dubious of all info at this point and especially dubious of rank speculation.
Radiumgirl
@bupalos: Exactly. Shakespeare wrote for his patrons — and for Queen E. I. He wasn’t about to advocate the violent overthrow of a monarch.
Barbara
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Truman or Johnson or Teddy Roosevelt would all be far more consequential.
MattF
@cmorenc: Trump believes in being guided by instinct, rather than– well, thinking, reasoning, experience, whatever. You have ‘get’ the fact that there’s a real universe outside yourself, and that actions in that real universe can have unanticipated consequences.
JGabriel
@Corner Stone:
Yep. That too.
Villago Delenda Est
@OzarkHillbilly: From a photo I’ve seen of the damage, that’s what appears to have happened. Although the skyscraper should have had radar, too.
Barbara
@grandpa john: Gives new meaning to the tag line “he went to Jared!”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@MomSense: without minimizing what happened to Scalise, several pro-gun Rs have said that being on that field changed their minds about guns (I’ll predict that won’t last). The shooting at Newtown? The cost of Liberty.
I get choked up just looking at the class pictures of those smiling little kids. But I’m a bleeding heart liberal, or something.
Villago Delenda Est
@Radiumgirl: Shakespeare had to be a Tudor propagandist. No choice in the matter.
gene108
@MomSense:
I think they get off on knowing they will hurt millions of Americans.
They are sick twisted evil people.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Barbara: and even excluding those who moved up: Cheney.
germy
It had been a grueling week since the jurors began deliberating late Monday. Press, public and Cosby’s accusers and supporters have waited for sometimes 12-hour days at the courthouse for any sign that news was forthcoming. All told, the jury deliberated for 52 hours on the case.
OzarkHillbilly
@Villago Delenda Est: Scott’s post above reflects that too: @Another Scott: I’ll wait to see what the investigation shows. Regardless, this was the Commander’s last ship. Mistakes were obviously made.
gene108
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Why? This is what the 2nd Amendment solutions they keep advocating for look like.
John Hodgkins was a gun owning American, who felt the government was lurching towards tyranny. He used his guns to express his belief and take out the petty tyrants.
This is what they’ve been advocating, whenever a Democrat is in the White House.
Another Scott
@OzarkHillbilly: Yup.
With that said, as others noted above, the Captain is always responsible for his/her ship. It doesn’t matter if the skyscraper suddenly turned to ram him/her, he’s responsible. And he’ll almost certainly lose his command over it.
Even though the Commander of the USS Cole was not found to be at fault, and likely could not have prevented the attack, he was relieved of command and was never promoted to Captain.
Everything else about the event is speculation at this point.
Cheers,
Scott.
(Who hopes the 7 lost sailors are somehow found…)
Corner Stone
@Villago Delenda Est:
I wonder if we’re going to find out how few crew were onboard and how automated the ship was.
Ken
@Barbara: Millard “Who?” Fillmore would be far more consequential, in terms of how the succession changed administration policies. Any historic consequence would be a side-effect of the first impeachment to remove a President from office.
MomSense
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
They were indifferent to gun violence until they were the victims but I bet their response will be to cancel town hall meetings and to budget additional security for themselves.
@gene108:
Evil. Greedy. Power hungry. Psychopaths. Deplorable.
Hal
On a regular basis I run into the Bernie would have won narrative on social media and such, and now whenever I encounter that impossible to prove theory, I’ll think of the tweet below. I know not everyone is a fan of tweet chains, but I thought this one made plenty of good points. Not that I’m not for a unified, more progressive party and all, but winning elections is harder than many people seem to realize.
Immanentize
@cmorenc: I read this morning in the FTF NYT that Mueller just hired John Dowd — another old school DC attorney (represented McCain during the Keating 5 investigation). Mueller obviously has made his contingency plans.
WereBear
@MomSense: rAmen.
D58826
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Still took over 18 hours to respond. A D congressman had a tweet last night. There is some debate as to whither the tweet was from the WH account or the real Fuhrer rage account. I thought I saw a tweet from Der Fuhrer or maybe the WH staff offering prayers for the ‘soldiers’ on board the Fitzgerald but can’t find it her on my desktop.. The only ‘soldiers’ that might be on board are Marines and I would not want to be in the same room if you called them soldiers.
In the meantime Ivanka is tweeting her support for the wonderful people in the gay community while her while her father appoints judges and cabinet offers who want to put them back in the closet. As was mentioned in threads a few days ago Cong. Scalise may well own his life to a married lesbian capital police officer. A person that that in the Scalise universe is beneath contempt.
D58826
@Immanentize: I think it was Der Fuhrer who hired him to be part of his defense team. At least according to Maddow last night
Corner Stone
Joy looks really down in the dumps today. Weary.
Immanentize
@D58826:
Ooopsie. You are so right. Working on not much sleep today. Well that would be the best lawyer hire Trump has made so far!
PS. Great time to be a young law school graduate!!!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m sure the “spokesman” got a talking-to about that “Mr”. Where’s he been for the last forty-odd years? I think even in the credits of Fat Albert he insisted on the “Dr”
Villago Delenda Est
@D58826: They’d rather be called “jarheads” in the non-affectionate way than “soldiers”. If you want to have a bar full of Marines kick your ass clear to Gibraltar, that’s how you’d do it. Call them “soldiers”.
D58826
@trollhattan: The investigation will determine that.
But things happen. The bridge officers of the Stockholm and Andrea Doria tracked each other on radar for an hour before the collision. They even instructed the look outs to watch for the other ship. It was a foggy night so the lookouts didn’t see anything until it was to late. Standard protocol is for ships to pass starboard to starboard but for some reason the Doria’s crew had gotten themselves on a course to pass port to port without realizing it. IN highway driving terms it was like the were driving into oncoming traffic. When they made visual contact with Stockholm they executed the standard turn away based on a starboard to starboard passing. That of course put them on a course to pass right in from of Stockholm. The irony is if they had done nothing the ships would have had a very close port to port encounter but no collision. The standing orders on the bridge were never to get within a number of miles (2 I think) of another ship. It was that final evasive turn that set the stage for the collision. Early in the investigation some undisclosed piece of evidenced was uncovered that made the Italian line settle out of court so the only on the record testimony is from the Stockholm’s bridge crew.
As to the Fitzgerald missing crewmen, since the ship was hit in a berthing compartment I don’t think this is going to have a happy ending.
D58826
@Villago Delenda Est: My BIL is a jarhead as is my cousins hubby. I know the drill.
D58826
@Immanentize: That’s what they said on Rachel last night. He is one of the best in the real world and not as opposed to the ‘best’ on Planet Donald
D58826
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Mrs. C has issued a letter that rips the judge, the prosecutor and the victim. She must be talking lesson in public decorum from Der Fuhrer. Have gone from being a huge fan and proud to to have gone to the same college as he did (Temple) to gagging at the mere mention of his name.
Villago Delenda Est
@D58826: I think it’s fascinating that Donald’s vile minions don’t know that you’d be talking about “sailors” on a ship rather than “soldiers”, unless it were a troop transport. And a destroyer is no troop transport.
The general level of ignorance about basic military terms is what I’d expect of a bunch of New York real estate grifters/money launderers.
NotMax
@Villago Delenda Est
Pence likely cannot say the word seamen out loud, nor suffer any who do.
D58826
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: On the other hand it only takes one to prevent an acquittal. Even though the DA has promised a retrial within 120 days, I wonder if he/she has had time to get a read out on how the jury voted. 11-1 to convict makes it worthwhile to retry. 11-1 to acquit maybe not so much.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
me too, even having to make allowances for (what I thought was ) his “pull your pants up” old-fart-itude. He refused to do Marc Maron’s WTF podcast because of the “F”. Fucking psycho.
D58826
@Villago Delenda Est: And it’s not like the WH/DOD isn’t staffed with people who DO know the protocols.
@NotMax: OH FSM that is awful. Probably true but awful no the less.
D58826
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yea he did get to be a bit of a busybody late in his career. But he did have a point that your not going to get aj ob with your pants around your knees and speaking street English. The linguists and other may argue that ‘ghetto English’. for want of a better term, is a valid dialect/creole or whatever but the local bank manager doesn’t want his tellers speaking it to the customers.
germy
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Well, that’s the excuse he gave. I think he refused because he didn’t think he’d be able to bullshit Maron. Things can get uncomfortable on that show for bullshitters (see: Leo Anthony Gallagher, Jr.)
Citizen_X
I’m sure the the Captain will be held at least partially responsible, but the photographs of the Fitzgerald show a lot of damage amidships. It was clearly hit by the other ship. Whose fault that was, I don’t know.
Karen
@trollhattan: that was my question on another thread, it doesn’t say much for the Navy. I am glad my Dad and some of his buddies are long gone, they were proud of having served in Navy
Hal
I’m stuck in moderation. Help!
LurkerNoLonger
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
You have empathy, which is something Republicans lack.
Quinerly
Didn’t go through all the comments so this may be a repeat. Thread might even be dead. Anyone speculating on who Pence would pick for his VP? I go with Niki Haley. Although being alone with her without “Mother” might present a problem.
Another Scott
@Quinerly: Pence is afraid of women (won’t be alone with any of them except his “Mommy”). I’d bet cash money that he would never pick a woman.
I assume he’d pick Kris Kobach or a similar “true believer”.
:-/
[eta:] Hey! No fair on the edit! ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Quinerly: probably a smart choice, and I’m sure she has her eye on a presidential run, and probably a lot of very cynical support in the party. I wonder if Pence is smart enough to know she’d upstage him, and whether the Republican fondness for playing the game of “How can we be racist if we support X!” can trump (ahem) the GOP’s actual racism and sexism.
Corner Stone
Sorry to interrupt but a small programming note:
Emily Blunt is HAWT
Karen
@Citizen_X: the destroyer is considered a fast, highly maneuverable warship; a container ship isn’t, I can’t wrap my mind around a collision like that. one thing is a given this will given comics even more material; when a container ship beats a destroyer
Quinerly
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Thank you for thinking she was a smart choice. No way would he ever pick her then. I do think Pence would try to go the more moderate route. He would say he was unifying the country.
PPCLI
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): I’m thinking that Truman was pretty consequential. LBJ too. Silent Cal. Andrew Johnson, though in a bad way. Even Chester Arthur.
JGabriel
Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’ve been saying for 25-30 years now that the Republican agenda of cutting services, while promoting guns everywhere for everyone, was a recipe for violent revolt.
Well, we have guns everywhere now, and Republicans are trying to cut disability, cut Medicaid, cut Medicare, and take away health insurance from 24 million people – even after already cutting many services to the bone in previous administrations, from Reagan to the present.
And Republicans continue to advocate for more gun deregulation.
And a raging buffoon who is obviously unfit for office keeps blaming Congress for his many failures as President.
So, unfortunately, this probably will not be the last gun attack on members of Congress.
Tim C.
@gene108: All true. However, the bigger issue is that if Pence becomes President, then every Trump-Cultist will view him, and the GOP as a whole as the great betrayers of the one great leader. And if the GOP loses another 15%-20% of it’s base, they go the way of the Whigs. That’s the reason they won’t impeach Trump.
SFBayAreaGal
Pence is up to his neck with the Russians.
J R in WV
@trollhattan:
“Mistakes were made!”
Seriously, they were in one of the most congested sea lanes in the world, surrounded by at least dozens of moving targets. If you move unexpectedly to dodge giant cargo ship ACZ, you may become now a target of giant cargo ships BDF and DEG. The captain F’ed up big time, will lose his command/career…
cmorenc
@JGabriel:
There are two key facts that make Trump very hesitant to count on the congressional GOP protecting him if he fires Mueller:
1) Firing Comey failed to create the hoped-for political firewall against continuance of any further serious investigation of Russian involvement in his campaign – instead, it created sufficient pressure to force even more ominously serious, broader investigation continued by an even tougher, and widely respected across party lines ex-FBI director Mueller. Aside from some ineffective peeps of verbal protest by some GOP congress-critters about Trump being assaulted by democrats and his political enemies in the deep stare – no real attempts have been made so far by the GOP congress to undermine or handicap Mueller’s investigative scope or abilities.
2) For a majority within the GOP congressional majority, Trump’s value has proved so far to be more of a sometimes-useful idiot with a bad habit of uncontrollable self-destructive verbal diarrhea. Trump, of course, is far too much of an arrogantly malignant narcissist to think he might be the problem rather than them, but the bottom-line is that Trump is keenly aware that the degree of mutual trust between him and the Congressional GOP is far from solidly reliable – and he might not be able to count on their support if he fires Mueller and there’s a big enough public backlash, even from conservatives (many of whom deeply dislike Trump for corrupting their brand).
rikyrah
1. Pence is up to his neck in the Flynn mess.
2. He is part of the Comey firing.
3. If you think that Dolt45 is going down without taking Pence with him? Puleeze.
rikyrah
@trollhattan:
Been wondering that myself
Dmbeaster
@OzarkHillbilly: How the hell were they close enough in the first place that an unexpected move by the ocean going equivalent of a ground sloth would result in a collision?
From pictures, it looks like a portion of the bridge took a hit, which might explain the injuries to the Navy captain.
Dmbeaster
@LurkerNoLonger: Lack? They positively snear at the suggestion that empathy should motivate actions. That’s why they think “bleeding heart liberal” is an insult. Can’t you control that lesser emotion?
Another Scott
@rikyrah: Yup.
TAP: In Russiagate, keep your eye on Pence:
Everyone in power in the Trump campaign knew what was going on with the Russia connections. But beyond that, there are Donnie’s personal connections to Russian money which smells for all the world like money laundering….
Cheers,
Scott.
JGabriel
@cmorenc:
Good points, though I’m not convinced Trump is capable of thinking along even such minimally rational lines.
@rikyrah:
Yeah, Trump never seemed particularly fond of Pence to begin with. I can easily imagine Trump thinking Pence was part of the plot to bring him down, or just blaming Pence for not doing enough to prevent it, and then doing in revenge whatever it took to shatter Pence’s dreams of attaining the Presidency.
mike in dc
Well, the worst case scenario for the GOP is if Russian money was laundered into congressional campaigns, and if the RNC and top-level Congressional leadership knew it, or strongly suspected it. That would be an extinction level event for the Republican party as we know it. But we’re not there(yet).
low-tech cyclist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The pro-gun types have always been happy to let other people die for their ‘freedoms.’ Guess it looks a little different if their own lives are on the line.
My son was in kindergarten at the time. I still can’t help thinking that it could have just as easily been his classroom in Maryland that some crazy with a rifle walked into. And if that had happened, I’m not sure I could have gone on.
With guns just as much as global warming, I can’t help wondering: don’t these fucks have children or grandchildren? Don’t they feel the same pain in the gut, thinking it might have been their flesh and blood whose life ended in a pile of small bodies just as it was starting? We may be ‘bleeding hearts’; have they no hearts at all? I don’t get them at all.
Mum
@jharp: I happen to live in Indiana. Not all “Hoosiers” are rednecks and I happen to be among the many that are NOT dumb. Sweeping generalizations are generally inapt and inept.
sukabi
@Another Scott: Sessions is in it up to his beady little eyes as well..
sukabi
What’s the new game Republicans are playing?
“Who will Pence pick as his VP once Drumpf is impeached?”
J R in WV
@Ken:
Perhaps the Captain was standing on his bridge and was hurled head-first into a steel bulkhead? Or even in his private space adjacent to the bridge resting, and rising off balance as the collision alarm went off just before the impact occurred? It’s pretty easy to get hurt on a ship when it runs into something.
I hate it that guys who were sleeping in the berthing compartment got killed. Talk about a sudden catastrophe… alarms go off in a space dimly lit by red lamps, then you’re underwater. I suppose someone might survive in a bubble, but….
Anne Laurie
@Corner Stone:
Also, did the cargo company — or, more likely, a contractor several layers legally removed from that ownership entity — hire qualified sailors who could communicate with each other, or did it just pick the lowest-cost human units from whichever country was willing to turn a blind eye to ‘sloppy paperwork’?
Uncle Cosmo
AL asserts a number of things up top that are utterly wrong. I spent 6 years with Agnew as first, my County Executive (Baltimore County[1]) and then my Governor of my home state (MD). Let me set the record straight:
1. It was not “generally believed, back in the day that the GOP forced Spiro Agnew on Nixon because anybody looking to impeach Tricky Dick would hesitate at the thought of installing a notorious old-school machine pol as his replacement.” Nixon chose Agnew as his running mate in 1968 as an East Coast “moderate,” a fanboi of NY Gov. Nelson Rockefeller, who had made a national splash after the riots touched off in Baltimore by MLK’s assassination, when he called in civil-rights leaders & instead of (as expected) asking their advice, ripped them a new one for not having prevented the rioting. (This fit in perfectly with Tricky Dick’s “law & order” campaign.)
2. Agnew was not “generally believed [to be] an old-school machine pol” because there was no Republican Party “machine” worth mentioning in MD at the time. His electoral success, in a heavily Democratic county & then state, owed to his opposition’s infighting. In 1962, the Democratic primary for County Executive split the party bosses on the eastside (whee most of the D voters were) & the loser sabotaged the winner by backing Agnew in the general. In 1966, Agnew would not have been re-elected (the Baltimore County Democrats having mended fences & set their sights on the county patronage appointmens) & so ran for Governor. Again he lucked into a divided Democratic party: In the gubernatorial primary, sane Democrats split their votes between the centrist incumbent MD Attorney General Tom Finan and the liberal incumbent Congressman-At-Large[2] Carlton Sickles, allowing one George P. Mahoney, a wealthy paving contractor & perennial gadfly candidate, to win a plurality in a near-naked appeal to white racism (campaign slogan: “Your Home Is Your Castle – Protect It”). In the ensuing general election, center & left Democrats lined up behind Agnew as the liberal alternative to the galumphing-oafish Mahoney. (Jeebus cripes, I remember TV ads for him in which you could tell he didn’t even have his dentures on properly!)
And then he gets picked up for Veep just as the Democrats were all set to vote him out.[3, 4]…
In 1972 it was noised about that Agnew would be replaced. (Nixon apparently wanted SecTreas, former TX Governor & turncoat Democrat John Connally; the moderate wing of the GOP [yes, Virginia, such a thing did exist then] floated Rockefeller.) It should be noted that neither possibility would have protected Nixon from impeachment etc. nearly as well as Agnew – most Democrats were repulsed by the latter’s unceasing attacks on them & their party, steeped in speechwriter William Safire’s needlessly nasty rhetoric. Had Agnew not been forced to resign the Vice Presidency (as part of a plea deal engineered by GOP US Attorney George Beall that spared him hard time) Congressional Democrats would have thought long & hard about any action that might elevate him to the Presidency.
4. As for Gerry Ford (whose background I know far less well), it’s plausible that Nixon picked him for two reasons. First, he was well-liked on both sides of the aisle in both Houses of Congress, & wasn’t associated with any particular policy positions that would provoke controversy. So he’d be easy to confirm even by a Congress that was starting to have second thoughts about the President.[5] Second, he was as much a “human shield” as Agnew for Tricky Dick, who figured there would never be enough Senators willing to vote to remove a clearly competent Chief Executive, no matter how much of an SOB, to replace him with a guy LBJ had typed as “a nice fellow [who] played too many games of football without a helmet[6]” and “who couldn’t fart & chew gum at the same time.”[7]
—-
[1] Baltimore County does not include the City of Baltimore, which is a separate county-level jurisdiction, but surrounds it on ~2/3 of its border.
[2] The 1960 Census had allotted MD an eighth House seat but before the districts were redrawn for the 1966 election, this Representative was elected statewide (“at large”).
[3]Maryland did not elect another GOP governor until 2002.
[4] IMHO Agnew’s heirs should have donated the horseshoe that must’ve been wrapped around his intestine to the Smithsonian.
[5] “[When] Mr. Nixon sought advice from senior Congressional leaders about a replacement [for Agnew,] the advice was unanimous. ‘We gave Nixon no choice but Ford,’ House Speaker Carl Albert recalled later.” Even so, I don’t think it ever crossed Tricky Dick’s mind that Congress would actually turn him out if it meant President Ford. None so blind, etc.
[6] Ford played center, linebacker & long snapper at the U of Michigan. I clearly remember (can’t find a link) some wag commenting that Ford’s problem wasn’t having played without a helmet, it was that he played center, & got used to looking at the world upside-down & between his legs…
[7] Both quotes from The Independent’s 2009 profile.
jayboat
Did the Russians hack the skyscraper’s autopilot?
I wish I was kidding.
Matt McIrvin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The hardcore Christianist faction love Pence. Many of them voted for Trump under the theory that God would bring some scandal or catastrophe to eliminate him and put Mike Pence in the White House.
Matt McIrvin
…The people for whom Trump was just the phrase “fuck you” made manifest, on the other hand, probably wouldn’t be satisfied with this guy.
WestTexan70
@Mum: Deal with it. I’ve lived in Texas all of my almost 60 years. Most Texans are raging “conservative” assholes. I can hardly blame others who thinks we are all like that. Until we beat them at the ballot box, we have to eat it.
Matt McIrvin
@WestTexan70: I live in Massachusetts, and I have the opposite problem: I have to constantly remind people that despite its votes in Presidential elections, the state is not a homogeneous liberal fairyland, that there are actually a lot of raging right-wingers here, especially in the far suburbs. I think Massachusetts’ conservatives were probably more enthusiastic about Trump than the ones in Texas.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Matt McIrvin: Well, they all can go cry in a fire.
Pluky
@OzarkHillbilly: Container ships don’t just turn “unexpectedly”. There’s this thing called inertia that is a function of mass.
Jinchi
@Corner Stone:
He’ll really have a tantrum when he finds out that he can’t fire Pence.