Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

The arc of the moral universe does not bend itself. it is up to us to bend it.

The real work of an opposition party is to oppose.

White supremacy is terrorism.

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

This fight is for everything.

We still have time to mess this up!

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

Trump should be leading, not lying.

Donald Trump found guilty as fuck – May 30, 2024!

“Perhaps I should have considered other options.” (head-desk)

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

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And, we have liftoff…

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If you had Manafort in the office indictment pool, congrats! Via the NYT:

Paul Manafort, Who Once Ran Trump Campaign, Told to Surrender
By MATT APUZZO OCT. 30, 2017

WASHINGTON — Paul Manafort and his former business associate Rick Gates were told to surrender to federal authorities Monday morning, the first charges in a special counsel investigation, according to a person involved in the case.

The charges against Mr. Manafort, President Trump’s former campaign chairman, and Mr. Gates, a business associate of Mr. Manafort, were not immediately clear but represent a significant escalation in a special counsel investigation that has cast a shadow over the president’s first year in office.

Mr. Gates is a longtime protégé and junior partner of Mr. Manafort. His name appears on documents linked to companies that Mr. Manafort’s firm set up in Cyprus to receive payments from politicians and businesspeople in Eastern Europe, records reviewed by The New York Times show.

Mr. Manafort had been under investigation for violations of federal tax law, money laundering and whether he appropriately disclosed his foreign lobbying.

Attempts to reach Mr. Gates on Monday were not successful. A spokesman for Mr. Manafort did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

BOOM!

ETA: The Cyprus connection could end up being significant. Rachel Maddow has been all over that angle for months, pointing out that Wilbur Ross was on the board at the Russia-friendly Bank of Cyprus until he resigned to become Trump’s Commerce Secretary.

ETA 2: So far today on Twitter, Trump insinuated that President Obama was somehow involved in paying for the Steele dossier and praised a Fox & Friends guest. Expect a “Manafort — who dat?” tweet soon.

Reader Interactions

175Comments

  5. 5.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    The NYTimes is desperately searching for a photograph of Hillary Clinton with Manafort. And Kevin Spacey. But not all together.

  16. 16.

    Citizen_X

    Paul Manafort, Who Once Ran Trump Campaign, Told to Surrender

    Did they skywrite “Surrender, Manafort” above his house?

  18. 18.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay: LOL. Effin’ true. Hillary, Spacey, Manafort.

    Not a surprise re Manafort. May he be the first of many.

    Cold morning in Virginia; rainy last night. Not nice weather for staking out the potential perps’ residences.

  19. 19.

    MattF

    Note that Manafort and Stone are conjoined– they were partners in a DC lobbying firm– so it’s a pretty safe bet that Stone is going down soon.

  21. 21.

    Elizabelle

    @rachel: Not clicking on the link, but the WSJ is owned by Rupert Murdoch. And it’s had a loopier than Barry Goldwater in his prime editorial page staff for about 2 generations now (maybe more; I’ve only been watching it since the 70s).

  25. 25.

    sukabi

    @rachel: grasping at straws, trying to manufacture illegitimacy of Mueller’s investigation. Rich aholes don’t have their tax cuts yet.

    Oh, and the WSJ is a Murdoch property, as is FOX. Expect the same nonsense to be liberally spewed on all the FOX shows today.

  26. 26.

    Betty Cracker

    @Cheryl Rofer: So true — if you’re not paying, you’re the product. Same is true of American citizens, who are being “served” at no charge by Trump, Ivanka and Jared.

  27. 27.

    Elizabelle

    @MattF: Manafort, Stone and Black. Powerhouse firm.

    Charlie Black is the token maybe just a Republican. Didn’t Lee Atwater used to work for them? Too lazy to Google right now; got to pour my coffee.

  28. 28.

    Kay

    @Elizabelle:

    Robert Costa‏Verified account @costareports 7m7 minutes ago
    More
    Reporters closely followed Manafort and Gates last year in Cleveland. They ran the convention, were once dominant players in Trump’s orbit.

    Good job! They ran the RNC and somehow their criminality escaped notice. Mueller got enough to bring them in in 5 months but the people who covered them every day suspected nothing.

  31. 31.

    TS

    @rachel:

    WTF? This makes no sense. Can anyone explain this to me?

    Trump wants to fire Mueller, but having already fired Comey, could get himself into serious trouble if he fires Mueller (or gets someone in justice to do the firing for him). The WSJ and anyone else suggesting Mueller should go are supporting the president* in his attempts to get rid of Mueller.

  32. 32.

    Kay

    @JPL:

    That’s interesting, that they were that bold. Trump really believes he’s untouchable. I bet Manafort doesn’t believe that anymore, however.

  33. 33.

    JMG

    @Kay: The people who cover politics and those who would do the digging on the likes of Manafort are completely different. Costas’ job is to have such people return his phone calls, not go into his background. That’s not good, but that’s how it is.

  34. 34.

    Tony Jay

    Gear up for a 24/7 co-ordinated hosing from all the usual suspects aimed at conveying that this is – a) Cynical overreach by the elite establishment determined to unseat the People’s President, b) Proof that Humpty Trumpty is totes in the clear y’all, so why are we even talking about this? c) Not actually happening (#FakeNews), they’re all crisis actors distracting you from good job numbers, d) Just the necessary first step in the impeachment of Hillary Clinton for treason, espionage and general bitchery, e) No big deal, remember Solyndra, that was much worse and saw more arrests, f) A Defend the 2nd Amendment starter-pistol moment – all at the same time, regardless of what actually is happening.

    Needless to say, no amount of reasoned argument is going to convince a single solitary MAGAt otherwise so, ignore the din and enjoy the show. Every successful siege starts with a breach in the outermost wall.

  36. 36.

    Amir Khalid

    We need to move on to a more important question: so, who won the Balloon Juice betting pool?

  37. 37.

    Kay

    @JMG:

    There’s no bright line though. The “people who cover politics” were more than happy to cover the digging into Clinton’s foundation. It’s all they covered. I disagree with the notion that that there’s some wall between them. They knew there were all kinds of questions around Trump’s shady associates. They chose not to cover it.

  40. 40.

    Kay

    Manafort actually looks scared in that clip. I’m glad. About godamned someone, somewhere got him. His whole life’s work is corrupt garbage.

  43. 43.

    Amir Khalid

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    I expect quite a few Congressional Republican leaders are letting their phones ring at the moment, as they scramble to put together a response.

  46. 46.

    PsiFighter37

    @Cheryl Rofer: Kevin McCarthy was on CNBC and blathering the same garbage to that toolbag Joe Kernan – that it’s all the Democrats’ fault. The pure absurdity of the GOP’s latest line of defense just shows how depraved they are, that they will do anything to pass tax cuts.

    They all deserve to go to prison.

  47. 47.

    zhena gogolia

    This is the first time I’ve won anything since a radio quiz in 1970 where I identified the actor who played Inspector Henderson on Superman!

  50. 50.

    MattF

    @Amir Khalid: It’s a, um, whole series of dilemmas for them– they want to talk up tax ‘reform’ but there’s no text of a bill, they want to avoid talking about Manafort, they want to avoid talking about Trump. Poor babies. I expect a lot head-under-pillow.

  56. 56.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay: I wonder if we could pressure Jay Rosen or Al Giordano or anyone who cares about a responsible press to support or organize a huge investigation into how the press failed voters in 2016. They took the Hillary Clinton bait and left us vulnerable to a demagogue propped up by Russia.

    That’s right up there with lying into the Iraq War; less deaths but possibly as much longterm damage to our institutions and opportunities. There is an opportunity cost to Trump, and he and his crew of sociopaths have gone at Obama’s accomplishments and our public goods with a wrecking ball.

    The press was complicit. Complicit. What the fuck is up at the Vichy New York Times?

  57. 57.

    JPL

    We might have more information about the meeting with Paul, Don Jr, Jared and Natalia sooner than we think. My sense is that Jared doesn’t want to play the game, like father, like son.

  58. 58.

    James E. Powell

    @Kay:

    Manafort had to know this day would come. He has a defense plan. Our question is, what is it?

    Will he stonewall? Fall on his sword and look for a pardon? Or will he sing like the proverbial?

  59. 59.

    Cheryl Rofer

    So the initial Trumpist reaction is to deny it, the same old playbook they’ve been using.

    Last night on Twitter, David Roberts (@drvox) was musing about whether we will be able to come together as a nation as this thing proceeds. With about 30% of the nation committed to Fox and Trump lies, can we find a way through whatever lies ahead?

    I think it depends on what the Congressional Republican leadership does. If they will (eventually) bring a bill of impeachment and convict, if necessary, I think we’ll get through it.

    It’s early. There are many twists and turns ahead. Keep the pressure on the Congressional Republicans, all of them.

  61. 61.

    Patricia Kayden

    It’s not even 9:00 am and already Mueller has dropped a bomb. The man doesn’t play. Here we go!!

  63. 63.

    Patricia Kayden

    @TS: Let her keep talking about irrelevant chitter chatter while Mueller keeps the shoes dropping. Just shows how useless she and many others in the MSM truly are.

  66. 66.

    Patricia Kayden

    @rachel: WSJ is basically saying, “Mueller is about to take down our President who only won because of collusion with a foreign enemy and we don’t like that”. Let’s keep it real. There is no one who could conduct this investigation that would satisfy anyone on the Right. They’re invested in this President for multiple reasons and don’t want the truth about his election to be revealed.

  70. 70.

    Kay

    @James E. Powell:

    He seems to be wholly motivated by money. I think people like that are more likely to save their own skin. He doesn’t kid himself that he’s fighting for “religious liberty” or “conservative values”- installing/propping up people like Trump is how he makes his living.

  72. 72.

    Tenar Arha

    @zhena gogolia:
    Yeah, that. Kevin Spacey was outed as a pedophile over the weekend, in a detailed report. Today he threw the LGBTQ community under the bus, deflecting the story that he’s an abuser by coming out as gay.

  74. 74.

    satby

    So now do we start betting on when one of them is mysteriously shanked in jail? Because Putin has had people killed for way lower profile stuff.

  78. 78.

    PST

    A possibility I have not heard anyone mention is a guilty plea. Imagine how many administrion figures will soil their drawers if the indictment is for a couple of money laundering charges carrying a few years incarceration and Manafort pleads guilty. I don’t expect it, but it is possible he’s reached a deal already and spilled his guts.

  79. 79.

    Jeffro

    @Patricia Kayden: hey, if the WSJ – or any Republican regurgitation outlet – doesn’t like it, maybe they could get behind the sane, moderate, competent candidate next time instead of going with blind tribalism???

    Anyway, just here to do my victory lap, folks: I was 30 days off, but ONLY 30 days off, as to the start of the indictment blizzard. Hey Roger Stone! Hey Carter Page! Hey Jared Kushner! Yoooooou’re next on “The Indictment is Right”!

  80. 80.

    MattF

    @Cheryl Rofer: Republicans in Congress want to figure out a way to deny that Mueller’s investigations are really happening with the standard ‘no comment’ wrt ongoing investigations. A tough row to hoe. My own guess is a large-scale escape into a safe fantasy-land, kind of like the ending in Brazil, or… maybe Eraserhead. ‘In Heaven, Everything is Fine’.

  82. 82.

    Kay

    @TS:

    F..ing Andrea Mitchell – still talking about those emails. They NEVER stop

    I think constantly returning to the Alleged Clinton Crimes is a way of covering their ass because Trump’s Presidency looks worse and worse with each passing week. They have to continue to make her out to be a criminal in comparison.

  85. 85.

    Kay

    Can they tie the guy in the VA race to Manafort? VA candidate was a professional lobbyist before he was a professional racist.

    Maybe same circles?

  86. 86.

    clay

    There seems to be some push to get Manafort connected to Hillary because he apparently (?) used to work with the Podesta Group (?).

    This is all Newsweek seems to have on it

    The Podesta Group was one of several firms that worked on a Manafort-led campaign for a nonprofit called the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine (ECMU). The campaign promoted Ukraine’s image in the West and was reportedly backed by the Party of Regions, a pro-Russian political party in Ukraine that was previously led by former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych.
    ….
    Podesta, 73, is the older brother of John Podesta, who chaired Clinton’s failed 2016 presidential campaign. John Podesta is not affiliated with the Podesta Group and is not subject to Mueller’s investigation.

    Having the older brother of your campaign chair run a firm that was once hired by Manafort certain IS more damning than hiring Manafort to directly run your campaign.//

  89. 89.

    Gin & Tonic

    As I’ve said repeatedly, I am delighted it’s Paulie. He has the blood of Ukrainians on his hands.

  91. 91.

    Chris

    @rachel:

    “He might prosecute Trump. Trump is a Republican. Trump is good. Prosecuting Trump is bad. Mueller is bad.”

    There, saved Google-Translate the trouble.

  94. 94.

    Just One More Canuck

    I should have read the Maggie’s tweet first – please ignore my comment at 90

  98. 98.

    Joey Maloney

    @Facebones:

    Some lawyer-like Twitterheads are suggesting that having Manafort & Gates turn themselves in, all gentlemanly-like, is a sign that they’ve already made a deal to plead out and sing.

  99. 99.

    Jeffro

    Hey on another note: Boehner praises Obama as an (attempted) uniter, blames right-wing media and social media for the deep divisions in this country. No REALLY!!

    [Boehner] blamed the divide in the country on the rise of talk radio and social media, not on Obama or Trump.

    “People thought in ’09, ’10, ’11, that the country couldn’t be divided more. And you go back to Obama’s campaign in 2008, you know, he was talking about the divide and healing the country and all of that. And some would argue on the right that he did more to divide the country than to unite it. I kind of reject that notion,” Boehner told Politico.

    “Because it wasn’t him!” he continued. “It was modern-day media, and social media, that kept pushing people further right and further left. People started to figure out … they could choose where to get their news. And so what do people do? They choose places they agree with, reinforcing the divide.”

    Boehner said that conservative talk radio has drifted further to the right.

  100. 100.

    Suzanne

    In all seriousness, how much sooner is it reasonable to expect more indictments? I was born after Watergate, so I don’t have a good frame of reference. I’d love a nice big Christmas or birthday gift!

  101. 101.

    clay

    @Jeffro: Uh-huh. That’s not the song he was singing at the time, of course. We need a term for Republicans who speak the truth only once they can no longer do anything about it.

  102. 102.

    Boatboy_srq

    @rachel: Murdoch owns WSJ, and Pepperdine has become a hive of Conservatistism. They’re squealing because Mueller is indicting white folks and not Those Other People® who are the real criminals.

  104. 104.

    Jeffro

    @eclare: Yeah, but to be honest that was my second prediction when my first “by the end of September” didn’t come to pass.

    I think we’re going to see them rain down all month…I sure hope they are feeding those grand juries well!

  107. 107.

    Boatboy_srq

    @clay: Or once they’re clear of electoral repercussions. Nothing more liberating to a Congresscritter than not seeking reelection.

  110. 110.

    MattF

    @Suzanne: The main relevant item from Watergate is the prosecutor’s decision that they couldn’t indict Nixon. Otherwise, it’s basically up to Mueller.

  111. 111.

    NonyNony

    @clay:

    We need a term for Republicans who speak the truth only once they can no longer do anything about it.

    I think that term is “Republicans”. What we really need is a term for Republicans who keep lying even when they don’t have to anymore.

  112. 112.

    NotMax

    Early reports are that the statute of limitations was about to expire on at least some of the charges – as soon as within days.

  113. 113.

    Chris

    @Elizabelle:

    That’s right up there with lying into the Iraq War; less deaths but possibly as much longterm damage to our institutions and opportunities. There is an opportunity cost to Trump, and he and his crew of sociopaths have gone at Obama’s accomplishments and our public goods with a wrecking ball.

    From a God’s-eye-perspective of “all human lives matter,” the Iraq War is probably still worse, simply because of the mind-boggling amount of human destruction it caused, and is still causing. But from a selfish nation-state point of view, this is pretty much as bad as things get; if there’s one thing that all of politics should be agreed on, it’s that you don’t stooge for a hostile foreign power (because if you can’t agree on that, really, you don’t even have a country anymore in any meaningful sense of the word).

  114. 114.

    Elizabelle

    @PST: Manafort could save himself hundreds of thousands in legal fees, spare his wife and daughters a public trial and the runup to same, and might be safer in federal custody. Could continue to cooperate, from a safe perch, and reduce his time, too.

    There are some good reasons he might plead guilty and turn.

  116. 116.

    Chris

    @Jeffro:

    Correction, Boehner. Talk radio and other media pushed conservatives further to the right. This process then pushed liberals further to the left.

  118. 118.

    Montanareddog

    What if Trump fires Mueller. Matt Yglesias contends (and I incline to agree with him on this) that the Apricot Aneurysm will fire Mueller unless Congressional Republicans stop him. There is no constituency in the House for that and, in the Senate, it comes down to the 2 or 3 usual suspects whose only leverage is a threat to hold up bills like Tax Reform the great Borrow Money and Give It to Rich People Act of 2017

  120. 120.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @NonyNony:

    What we really need is a term for Republicans who keep lying even when they don’t have to anymore.

    That would be “Republicans”.

  122. 122.

    low-tech cyclist

    @Tenar Arha:

    Kevin Spacey was outed as a pedophile over the weekend

    Um, no. Pedophilia is sexual attraction to children who aren’t yet sexually mature, not just to anyone who is under the legal age.

    This kid was 14. If true, this is sexual assault on a minor, which is bad enough. No need to pretend it’s worse.

  123. 123.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    Mueller got enough to bring them in in 5 months but the people who covered them every day suspected nothing.

    They didn’t want to suspect anything, Kay.

    I honestly believe why they haven’t been on this story is because they know that it was pretty much all there, but they decided to chase Hillary Clinton’s emails, and thus, practiced professional malpractice.

  125. 125.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Chris: I’m sure Mueller is aware that Trump might fire him. What measures could he put in place to ensure that his investigation’s discoveries come to light anyway?

  126. 126.

    Suzanne

    @MattF: Is Boehner a lifetime drunk, or is it situational—i.e. he drank to cope with the horrible situation he was in?

    The man whistled “Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah” as he resigned. I relate.

  127. 127.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    The money laundering is interesting because of course the question is why did they have to hide where it came from. They were also really bad at it- it’s so clumsy and blatant.

  128. 128.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Elizabelle: There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that he will sing, if he hasn’t already. Paul Fucking Manafort has no loyalty to anyone besides Paul Manafort. The concept of ethics is as alien to him as cosmology is to a pig.

  129. 129.

    JR

    @clay: Tony Podesta seems crooked so I wouldn’t mind saying goodbye to him

    Alao if they can somehow have Lanny Davis arrested that would do me just fine too

  130. 130.

    Kay

    @Suzanne:

    I think Boehner’s always been like that. I had an older Democrat tell me he was a “skirt chaser” in the Ohio Legislature. The general idea was swearing, smoking, drinking and “skirt chasing”- you know- the good ‘ol days.

  131. 131.

    Jeffro

    @rikyrah: I do believe Grand Moff Mueller is about to demonstrate the firepower of this fully-armed and operational special counsel…

  132. 132.

    randy khan

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Yes. I’m seeing some speculation that Trump might have promised Manafort a pardon so Manafort will clam up. If I were Manafort, I wouldn’t trust Trump as far as I could throw Trump’s golf cart.

  134. 134.

    d58826

    The GOP line seems to be that since these charges all happened before Manafort joined the campaign. Ok maybe true but it does raise and interesting question – What kind of due diligence did the campaign do before hiring this guy? That he was a shady character seemed to be common knowledge at the time. That there was a long running investigation also seemed to be common knowledge. Also raises a question about Pence and his judgment/integrity since they have a long standing relationship. It was Manafort who pushed Pence for VP.

    The GOP is passing this off as a nothing burger but E_MAILS. Trey Gowdy is already complaining about the leaks from the Mueller investigation. WHAT leaks???

  136. 136.

    Suzanne

    @Kay: Yeah, that’s kinda what I figured. I suspect that Bannon has a drinking problem for real but that Boehner just drinks too much but isn’t truly an alcoholic.

  138. 138.

    Montanareddog

    @O. Felix Culpa: If you fire a CEO, the organization does not just disappear. So, there would be a complex situation, I imagine. I thought I heard that only DAG Rosenstein can actually fire Mueller. If Rosenstein refuses an order to do so from Trump, then we are in Saturday Night Massacre territory. But whoever does take over following a Mueller ouster could, presumably, order everyone on the team to stop work and simply for all evidence to be sealed. Any of the lawyer-jackals any idea?

  139. 139.

    ET

    Manaford really did seem to be the mostly likely given what has gone on in the investigation and his generally dirty hands.

  142. 142.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    I think Boehner’s always been like that. I had an older Democrat tell me he was a “skirt chaser” in the Ohio Legislature. The general idea was swearing, smoking, drinking and “skirt chasing”- you know- the good ‘ol days.

    Boehner became Speaker in the wrong era. He’s not a ‘ true believer’. He’s basically old-time Republican scum. The description of him is exactly how I saw him.

  145. 145.

    low-tech cyclist

    @Kay:

    Can they tie the guy in the VA race to Manafort? VA candidate was a professional lobbyist before he was a professional racist.

    Maybe same circles?

    Almost had to be. Gillespie was basically the GOP equivalent of Terry MacAuliffe, a guy so deeply enmeshed with the national party establishment that whether he lived in DC, Maryland, or Virginia seemed almost incidental until he decided to run for VA Gov. There’s no way Gillespie and Manafort haven’t crossed paths, probably lots of times.

  146. 146.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @clay:

    We need a term for Republicans who speak the truth only once they can no longer do anything about it.

    Republican’t?

  147. 147.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Last night on Twitter, David Roberts (@drvox) was musing about whether we will be able to come together as a nation as this thing proceeds. With about 30% of the nation committed to Fox and Trump lies, can we find a way through whatever lies ahead?

    Bohner was already forshadowing that

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/boehner-unloads-chaffetz-jordan-hannity

    “Donald Trump’s not a Republican. He’s not a Democrat. He’s a populist. He doesn’t have an ideological bone in his body,” the former speaker said.

  149. 149.

    Elizabelle

    @Suzanne: Politico profile noted that Boehner is a 2 pack a day smoker, with a sibling already dead to lung cancer; Boehner says if cancer was gonna kill him, he’d already be dead.

    Politico notes he has a frequent cough.

  150. 150.

    Corner Stone

    @rikyrah:

    Boehner became Speaker in the wrong era. He’s not a ‘ true believer’. He’s basically old-time Republican scum. The description of him is exactly how I saw him.

    Pretty much. He was an old school “cash n carry” Republican pol. He used to hand out lobbyist checks on the floor of the House. Old-time Republican scum is a pretty good fit for him.

  151. 151.

    Betty Cracker

    @d58826: It’s not true. Says in the indictment the activities for which they’re being charged happened between 2008 and 2017.

  154. 154.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Montanareddog: It will be interesting to see how much spine Rosenstein has. And how far down the line the Saturday Night Massacre would go. I too would love to hear from the lawyer-jackals (jackal lawyers?) about how Mueller could lay down legal landmines for the eventuality that he gets fired – beyond Ozark’s observation that info is being shared with the NY AG.

    @Chris: Same here!

  155. 155.

    RobertDSC-iPhone 6

    Don’t forget Tad Devine & Paul Manafort have connections through Ukraine. What say you, O bullshitter of Burlington?

  157. 157.

    d58826

    @Betty Cracker: The speculation on MSNBC is the indictment is built around the fact that the statute of limitations has run on many of Manafort’s activities. My point was he was known to be shady for years even if he can’t be charged for some of the old stuff.

  160. 160.

    low-tech cyclist

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    “Donald Trump’s not a Republican. He’s not a Democrat. He’s a populist. He doesn’t have an ideological bone in his body,” the former speaker said.

    In a narrow sense of ‘ideological,’ Boehner is correct. However, Trump’s a dyed-in-the-wool racist and misogynist who has a long history of playing on white racial fears and hatred.

    That may not be ‘ideological,’ per se, but there’s only one party that has a recent (recent = the past half-century) history of putting up with that sort of evil, and occasionally (like right now) blatantly embracing it.

  161. 161.

    Betty Cracker

    @d58826: True. Just pointing out that the indictment itself rebuts any Republican apologists’ claims that it’s all old news.

  162. 162.

    d58826

    I think we are at the ‘if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck’ stage. We are just waiting on the quack part.

  163. 163.

    low-tech cyclist

    @Starfish:

    People do not usually make nuanced distinctions between hebephilia and pedophilia. Boys in their early teens are still boys.

    Bullshit. When my kid was little, one summer day when I picked him up from his high-school-aged babysitter, she and her friend were both wearing bikinis. Anyone in the world would understand why I said afterwards that I had to take a few deep breaths and keep a tight control over where my eyes went.

    If I’d said the same thing about an eight year old girl in a bathing suit, there’d be a totally different reaction.

    There’s your distinction.

    On second thought, you’re partially correct. It’s not a nuanced distinction. But few people have trouble making it.

  164. 164.

    cat

    @Starfish: That’s bullshit. When a female high school teacher “has an affair” with one of her male students, no one calls it pedophilia. It’s sexual assault of a minor/statutory rape. And let me tell you, when a 28-year-old man makes a drunken pass at a 14-year-old girl at a party they don’t call it pedophilia. Of course, teenaged girls in that situation aren’t usually called children, either. They’re called jail-bait.

    What Spacey did was illegal and immoral, but it’s kind of funny how they’re only pedos when they’re gay.

  165. 165.

    Amaranthine RBG

    With this, Mueller telegraphs two things 1) I am looking at crimes as long ago as 10 years ago and 2) I’ll investigate any business dealings I want.

    Those present a far bigger problem for trump than collusion.

  166. 166.

    Gelfling 545

    My daughter’s comment after reading the indictment:
    … if we had never adopted the corporate form and all it entails, and everyone remained sole proprietors or partnerships, this country would be very different. The government handed the wealthy a variety of screens to hide behind in corporate law. If Manafort never conspired against the govnt, he could have gone on laundering and evading indefinitely just like the rest of them.
    Also, this: man, rich folks are hiding money in countries I’ve never even heard of!

  167. 167.

    d58826

    Listening to MSNBC and Manafort’s ties to the GOP go back to Saint Ronulus the Unready and Jerry Ford. After serving in The Unready’s administration he and Roger Stone developed the ‘serve in government then become a lobbyist’ scam. In other words he helped to create the SWAMP. That none of this was known to Der Fuhrer, his campaign and the GOP in general is just not believable.

  170. 170.

    J R in WV

    @Amir Khalid:

    I may have won, being the first person to take the “More than One Person Indicted!” position…. maybe. Who can remember Friday!? Quite a weekend…!!!

  171. 171.

    Tenar Arha

    @low-tech cyclist: Yes, I was inaccurate about the report. ETA Thank you for correcting the record for me.

    But also, there’s once again a Seth MacFarlane “joke,” in this case a Family Guy clip going around on Twitter.

    Seth MacFarlane, who joked about Harvey Weinstein, also hinted at rumours about Kevin Spacey through Family Guy ind.pn/2hn0yQ7

  172. 172.

    Bill Arnold

    @Amir Khalid:

    We need to move on to a more important question: so, who won the Balloon Juice betting pool?

    I don’t recall anyone betting on Gates.
    I’m impressed by the Mueller team. There was some subtle misdirection that threw off intuitions (including mine), in hindsight. (Or maybe the temporal order was just a little off; will be a long and interesting week.)

  174. 174.

    TenguPhule

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I think it depends on what the Congressional Republican leadership does. If they will (eventually) bring a bill of impeachment and convict, if necessary, I think we’ll get through it.

    So obviously we’re not getting through it.

  175. 175.

    Tehanu

    Expect a “Manafort — who dat?” tweet soon.

    Yeah, loyalty being such an important value in Dump’s eyes. /snark

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