Papadopoulos' unnamed "supervisor" is Sam Clovis, and the "high-ranking" official is Manafort, source tells @Isikoff https://t.co/DHpQdXxqeL pic.twitter.com/0IOvUcdHjl
— Colin Campbell (@colincampbell) October 30, 2017
So, *this* Sam Clovis that Trump named last month to USDA despite any qualifications other than being a campaign "supervisor"? pic.twitter.com/FD5hl5q8Zg
— Harry Godwyn (@harrygod) October 30, 2017
wait IS CLOVIS THE SOMEONE SITTING ON THEIR BED THAT WEIGHS 400 POUNDS
— Owen Ellickson (@onlxn) October 30, 2017
White House: We won't withdraw Trump USDA pick despite report he told ex-Trump aide to meet with Russians https://t.co/83MMWjfetX pic.twitter.com/87tkJExujs
— The Hill (@thehill) October 31, 2017
This is nice to know, because from past history Clovis is strictly a
cash-in-advance professional, and while the Trump / GOP organizations may not have kept the best records I’m sure Sam always got certified receipts to store away.
(Also, back in Texas, Rick Perry is guffawing.)
which means Mueller made sure he had Clovis on record BEFORE letting the world know Clovis's underling was a cooperating witness.
— Zedward Tweeterhands (@ZeddRebel) October 31, 2017
Sam Clovis, the former top Trump campaign official who supervised a man now cooperating with the FBI’s Russia investigation, was questioned last week by special counsel Robert Mueller’s team and testified before the investigating grand jury, a person with first-hand knowledge of the matter told NBC News…
The court documents unsealed Monday describe emails between Papadopoulos and an unnamed “campaign supervisor.” The supervisor responded “Great work” after Papadopoulos discussed his interactions with Russians who wanted to arrange a meeting with Trump and Russian leaders.
[His lawyer, Victoria] Toensing confirmed that Clovis was the campaign supervisor in the emails. Clovis, a former Air Force officer and Pentagon official who unsuccessfully ran for Iowa State Treasurer in 2014, was the Trump campaign’s chief policy adviser and national co-chairman.He is currently serving as an unpaid White House adviser to the Agriculture Department, awaiting Senate confirmation before the Agriculture Committee for the scientist job. He is not a scientist…
In his role in the Trump campaign Clovis, a 25-year Air Force veteran, helped assemble Trump’s National Security Advisory Committee, chaired by then-Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), which was publicly announced in March 2016.
A public Senate confirmation hearing would give Democrats on the committee an opportunity to question Clovis about his interactions with Papadopoulos and the campaign’s deliberation about meetings with Russian officials.
The Agriculture Committee is chaired by Republican Sen. Pat Roberts of Kansas, a former chairman of the Intelligence Committee. Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), chairman of the Judiciary Committee, which is conducting its own Russia-related probe, is also a member of the Agriculture Committee, as are Democrats Patrick Leahy of Vermont and Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota…
Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, on the other hand: probably not a happy Malevolent Leprechaun right now. Or so, at least, I devoutly hope!
Villago Delenda Est
You know, the Watergate gang wasn’t exactly made up of your sharper tools in the shed, but they look razor sharp compared to these assclowns.
BlueDWarrior
@Villago Delenda Est: This is less a highly oiled thievery operation, as much as it is a smash-and-grab operation using a surplus tank you hijacked from the local armory.
Yarrow
Tick tock, motherfuckers.
Xboxershorts
Jesus, Victoria Toensing raises her ugly head yet again. My God that woman has been soaking up scum from the DC Swamp since the Lewinsky setup against Clinton
Major Major Major Major
@Villago Delenda Est: The Gang That Couldn’t Tell Their Ass From A Hole In The Ground.
Corner Stone
@Villago Delenda Est: The Level of Stupid starts at the top. I honestly do not think a single person Trump hired is in any relative sense smarter than Trump himself.
J Kelly has proven himself to be a deeply stupid and venal individual. McMaster has taken a few turns around the Merry Go Round of Stupidity. Still withholding judgment on Mattis I guess.
Davebo
@Xboxershorts: Longer than that actually.
Brachiator
It’s Jabba the Hut!
He’s a “cash me outside” guy.
It’s no surprise that Trump’s troopers are such a bunch of tawdry, unsophisticated goobers. It’s like “Goodfellas,” only dopier and more venal.
schrodingers_cat
@Corner Stone: Word.
Gin & Tonic
The Air Force doesn’t have physical fitness requirements?
schrodingers_cat
Merit based immigration but a stupidity based Presidency. Standards, we has them.
ETA: Most of the Trumplings wouldn’t qualify for the employment based green cards in the current system, forget the impossible one they want to put in place.
catclub
so there are others besides these whoppers? That is three huge bills worth right there.
DCrefugee
If anyone in Agent Orange’s maladministration has half a brain, there’s no way Clovis goes before Congress for a confirmation hearing. It would be merciless, and likely something would come out of it reminiscent of Alex Butterfield’s testimony during Watergate.
Whether Clovis goes to the Hill for such a hearing will be a litmus test on how (choose one or all: delusional/confident/stupid/inexperienced) they are. Then again, some in the Senate GOP leadership might want the opportunity to distance themselves from Emperor Smallfingers and not point out how bad the potential outcome could be.
More popcorn, please…
Starfish
Someone posted this timeline of Papadopoulos’s contacts with people. It’s thorough and names a lot of the Russian people involved.
Amir Khalid
And all this while, I thought Trump’s 400-lb guy was Chris Christie.
Chip Daniels
Whenever I read memoirs from people who lived in awful 3rd World dictatorships, what was consistent was that the governments were both clownishly inept, and ruthlessly efficient.
Inept at the basic workings of governance- keeping the streets swept, and sewers running; But ruthlessly efficient at graft and bribes. They couldn’t catch a mugger, but damned if they couldn’t ferret out a dissident.
eric
I am not so sure Manafort wants a pardon. We can all talk about not wanting to go to prison, but losing his Fifth Amendment rights as to the money laundering count could cause a number of people around the world to perk up with interest. If the argument goes that he can still assert the Fifth Amendment because of possible claims in New York State, then the pardons dont do him any good. Rock, meet hard place.
catclub
@Gin & Tonic: I bet he got retirement 25 years ago
Villago Delenda Est
@eric: Also, too, he’s safer under house arrest right now than he would be out on bail. Vlad has his guys all over the place.
Corner Stone
@Brachiator:
It’s like that one big heist they pull that sooner or later everyone starts getting nervous about. You got the idiot buying his wife new furs, the new Caddy, etc. Because they are stupid and greedy and just can’t help themselves. So one by one they start getting picked off, in order to try and get rid of anyone who knows what happened.
Sounds exactly like this Trump “election” and WH admin. They are all trying to perform the fastest bustouts possible before they start getting offed for what they know about the big election heist.
Yarrow
@eric: I have read that the President can offer a pardon but the person being pardoned does not have to accept the pardon.
Gin & Tonic
@eric: Why do you need the 5th when you can just do like Trump in every deposition ever: “I don’t recall.”
Amir Khalid
@Chip Daniels:
I’m sure you meant to say “efficiently ruthless”. Governments, like individual folk, are good at what what they work to be good at.
hedgehog the occasional commenter
Gods. I don’t know if I should weep or laugh, or both. Can one live on popcorn and booze? (Probably yes, but not for long…)
RobertDSC-iPhone 6
@Gin & Tonic:
His Air Force Service ended in 1996. He’s been on the wingnut gravy train for a long time.
He is as repulsive as the Orange Atrocity.
Xboxershorts
@DCrefugee: It’s looking more and more like the Orange one has half a brain
Emma
@Gin & Tonic: Because Mueller is the kind of guy who always finds and keeps the receipts. “I don’t recall” followed by “let me remind you, according to your bank statement of…” would be a disaster for the schmuck.
Cheryl Rofer
I want to know about Clovis’s Russian contacts. He brought in Carter Page and George Papadopoulos. None of those three have any foreign policy experience. There has to be a reason Clovis picked them up.
Roger Moore
@eric:
He probably wants a pardon but not a preemptive one. Going through the trial as a good soldier who keeps his mouth shut would help his credibility with his former clients, and the pardon afterward would prevent any unpleasant consequences.
Yarrow
Saw wild speculation yesterday about Bannon having flipped and having been wearing a wire for months. There is not enough popcorn in the world…
Starfish
@Cheryl Rofer: I thought you would be interested in this timeline I posted earlier.
Also, even though Seth Abramson is usually wrong, the question about who the other four people were in this photo is an interesting one.
tobie
If I’m reading Zeddy’s tweets correctly, he’s saying Clovis either ‘fessed up at the Grand Jury hearing or lied under oath at the Grand Jury hearing, and Mueller has the goods because Papadopoulos has been a cooperating witness. I guess we’ll see soon. My bet is that Clovis lied to the Grand Jury, which is, as Joe Biden would say, a BFD.
Corner Stone
@RobertDSC-iPhone 6:
In Clovis’ case it appears to have been an actual train full of gravy.
Barbara
@Emma: It also depends on how much Manafort is willing to take the fall for others. I noted in the indictment that several of Manaforts “loved ones” could plausibly be implicated in his criminal wrongdoing. This is where a lot of people fold up the tent — when their shenanigans risk felony charges and convictions for basically innocent people who went along with the plan. The spouse who signed the tax return, who must have known that the over the top charitable deductions were fraudulent. Here, that would be the daughter and son-in-law who lied to a bank about living in a condo in order to get a better rate on a mortgage. That’s actually illegal under both state and federal law, and it takes only one felony conviction to seriously undermine your professional potential.
Corner Stone
@Starfish: What do you find Abramson to be usually wrong about? I don’t follow him very often but some of the cites I have seen leading back to him recently seem to have been useful.
Corner Stone
@Barbara: Manafort is going to be left with nothing. I wonder if he’s started considering the easy way out.
Gin & Tonic
@Barbara:
Zero. Zilch. Nada. Paul Fucking Manafort ain’t falling on a sword for nobody.
Brachiator
@Corner Stone:
Yep. And Trump is the unstable Joe Pesci character, only amplified 1000 times.
Roger Moore
@Corner Stone:
In a real sense, though, this is the big contradiction of living a life of crime. On the one hand, the whole point of doing it is to enjoy the proceeds. On the other hand, taking advantage and living it up makes you an obvious target of law enforcement. It’s not an easy problem to solve, which is why really smart people try to get legitimate jobs rather than go for the “easy” money from being a criminal.
Calouste
Two thoughts about Papadopoulos:
1) How does a 29 year old who lives in London and is not working in the foreign policy field get a position on the Foreign Policy committee of a US presidential campaign? I read somewhere he was in oil and gas, but that’s about it.
2) The reaction of the shitgibbon is signaling that he is willing to throw everyone under the bus (not that we didn’t know that already). That’s not exactly encouraging other flunkies to not cut a deal with Mueller. The reason the mafia omerta worked was that they would take care of the guys who ended up in prison and their families. Mueller is offering these folks a deal, the shitgibbon is offering them.. nothing.
sharl
Based on his behavior after the 9/11 attacks and “oversight” of intel matters related to our Glorious Iraq Adventure, it’s not reassuring to see Senator Coverup show up in a key role in stuff like this. If the White House proceeds with a Clovis nomination, at least Roberts won’t be able to totally shut down the Dems on the committee, even though the Dems can be out-voted in any party-line vote.
JPL
@Yarrow: The only reason for that would be to put Pence in. If Flynn flips, then Pence is out though. It doesn’t make sense. imo
Starfish
@Corner Stone: He tends to exaggerate and state as fact things that have not been confirmed.
Here he is trying to distance himself from Louise Mensch while insisting that the pee tapes are real.
Amir Khalid
@Roger Moore:
If he accepts a pardon, I understand that whatever Manafort says about the crime he was forgiven for can’t be used against him. So he could be compelled to testify against his partners in crime — which, for his own reasons, he might rather not do. Those reasons could include a risk that such testimony might uncover more crimes, for which he has not been pardoned.
catclub
@Cheryl Rofer:
I thought Carter Page was into oil deals, and Russian oil in particular – kind of like Tillerson.
Yarrow
@Calouste:
He lied about his experience, even about dumb stuff like being in the Model UN. Also, if the candidate is owned by Russia, the candidate hires who he’s told to hire by his boss.
Once you see it as Trump doing his boss’s bidding,, his actions make a lot more sense.
aimai
@Gin & Tonic: For the purposes of these prosecutions, though, isn’t the documentary and fiscal trail enough? Your confession is not required.
rikyrah
@Yarrow:
BWA HA HA AH HA HA HA HA HA
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
You buy off or intimidate law enforcement, one of the reasons why organized crime in Italy, Japan, Hong Kong and other places is so entrenched.
Cheryl Rofer
@Starfish: Thanks for the timeline. I have decided not to follow the story in full detail because so many others are.
One thing that stands out in the timeline is how gullible or willing to cooperate Papadopoulos was. So many things just screaming for reporting to the FBI if one is running an honest campaign or has a minimal sense of patriotism. I’m wondering if young-uns like GP, having grown up after the fall of the Soviet Union, are more easily taken in.
Abramson does a lot better than Louise Mensch, but he often gets out ahead of the evidence. He makes assertions on much less evidence than I require. I am also not fond of Twitter threads much over twenty tweets. He would do well to get a blog. Writing it all in one place should encourage him to make a more logical sequence and leave out extraneous stuff.
That is a strange photo. One of the four is too hidden to be identified, but yes, who are they? And what is the meeting about? And why did Trump tweet it?
There is a lot of backstory on how Clovis and Sessions became foreign policy experts and buddy-buddy with lots of Russians. We haven’t seen any of it yet.
Emma
@Barbara: Agreed. I think Manafort is one of those people who think of themselves as cleverer than the rest of us and it was not until the Justice Department train bore down on him at full speed that it might have dawned on him that he realized something had gone very wrong.
Amusingly enough — in a Grand Gignol sort of way — all he needed to do was stay away from Donald Trump.
Yarrow
@JPL: Bannon would flip to save himself. He’s not going to flip to put Pence in. If Bannon has flipped, they must have some pretty good dirt on him and he decided taking the deal was better than not.
No one involved in this whole thing will protect anyone else involved. They’re all in it for themselves. Some will do deals to save family, but we know Trump won’t.
rikyrah
@tobie:
I think he lied too. Sitting there, lying like a muthaphucka, all the while, Bobby Three Sticks has all the answers to the questions he’s being asked.
man…oh man….oh man….
NotMax
@Yarrow
Just like The Apprentice. You unquestioningly take whoever the producers choose to trot in through the door.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Villago Delenda Est: Yes, isn’t it amazing how they make Libby breaking in while wearing a suite with a White House phone directory in his pocket look smooth in comparision.
Roger Moore
@Yarrow:
I’ll believe it when I see the indictments.
different-church-lady
@Cheryl Rofer:
This is 2017: if it doesn’t make your phone vibrate every 20 seconds, it doesn’t exist.
woodrowfan
@Brachiator: we need a cornfield and a baseball bat.
Starfish
@Cheryl Rofer: Trump tweeted a lot of photos of meetings to show that he was a serious person meeting with important people to do presidential things. He posted the photos of his tech roundtable. He posted the photo of the presidents of HBCUs even though he did not meaningfully speak to them. I bet there were more photos of meetings.
mai naem mobile
I love Victoria Toensing, one of the original Clinton crotch sniffers being the lawyer for a traitor. I know she’s making money off it but to be representing a racist asshole traitor just has to be awesome. Maybe her husband can be Sessions’ lawyer.
Cheryl Rofer
@catclub: Carter Page has kind of a bizarre history of admiration for Russia. He was in, I think (doing this from the top of my head), Merrill Lynch’s Moscow office for a while and did get to know something about oil and gas investments. He has written a bunch of incoherent things about his love for Russia. I saw him as a likely problem early on and have been watching. I collected background on him here, here, and here.
hueyplong
@Corner Stone: Exactly. You can almost hear the instrumental outtro from Layla as you visualize one of these guys on a meathook with ice crystals on his face.
Corner Stone
@rikyrah: “So, Mr. Clovis. Please tell us about your relationship with Mr. Papadopoulos.”
CLOVIS: “Whosat? Wassisname, Schmappadop? Nope. Never hoid of ’em.”
RMIII: “I see…”
Starfish
@different-church-lady: Turn off all the notifications is 2017 for “Clean all the things.”
Ridnik Chrome
WHY THE FUCK IS JOHN FUCKING YOO ON THE FUCKING NEW YORK TIMES OP-ED PAGE AGAIN TODAY?!!
NotMax
@different-church-lady
Yes and yes. It’s beyond breaking news, it’s broken news.
Corner Stone
@woodrowfan: Or an emptied out office in a high rise with plastic on the floor.
MANAFORT: “Oh, no!”
Peale
@Brachiator: Even the Russian Oligarchs are shocked at how greedy these people are. But then it makes them very easy to snare.
Felonius Monk
@Brachiator:
Nah, it’s more like a Donald Westlake story. Full of characters much less competent than Dortmunder and his pals. The big difference is that this story doesn’t have much humor in it.
Origuy
Cheryl, since you’re on this thread–what do you know about this tunnel collapse at a North Korea nuclear facility? I’ve only seen it mentioned at right wing sites like The Sun and the Daily Mail, so I don’t know if there’s anything to it.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Yarrow:
That kind of fits Bannon, doesn’t it? He seems like the two faced type and Scaramouche mentioned he though Bannon was hiding something.
Of course the flip side is what would Bannon know, he came in later and is basically a professional troll? Then again with the Trump clown car including a guy who can’t shut up to save himself from downing in their conspiracy would be consistent with the rest of their actions.
Lurking Canadian
@Emma: if anybody asks, you tell them you won the money in Vegas, playing craps.
lollipopguild
@schrodingers_cat: “Merit Based”=White, European, and speaks good English. There will be exceptions made for people who pay in cash/are rich.
feebog
I’m wondering how long Papadopoulos has been cooperating? He was arrested in late July and plead guilty on October 5, plenty of time to have multiple conversations with other people, and to record them. Definitely some staffers who are sweating bullets right now.
Major Major Major Major
Apparently the “diversity” program was originally created because Asians and South Americans were taking all the visas that were traditionally Irish and Italian http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/11/01/diversity_visa_lottery_explaining_program_donald_trump_blaming_after_new.html
Roger Moore
@Amir Khalid:
Sure, but what are they going to do if he clams up? Throw him in prison for criminal contempt? Trump has already shown a willingness to pardon people for that.
Bobby Thomson
Chances that he already has Clovis on perjury charges are very high.
Kay
Not to alarm anyone, but it seems the attorney general of the United States lied repeatedly about his awareness of Trump/Russia.
This is not going to pass unnoticed. The government is barely functioning but eventually these lies are gonna catch up to Mr.Sessions. I bet the wheels are already in motion. Once the big machine starts rolling it doesn’t stop and Sessions is a liar.
Matt McIrvin
@Villago Delenda Est: Balance that against the fact that the only people who really have the power to prosecute Trump (while he’s in office) are on his side.
Cheryl Rofer
@Origuy: Adam asked me about the tunnel collapse too. It seems to be a real report. I’ll do a short post about it later today – got a piano lesson coming up!
NotMax
@Peale
Little thieves are hanged, but great ones are praised.
– Russian proverb
Emma
@Lurking Canadian: Casinos keep records. Personal experience. And craps don’t get you $63 million.
Yarrow
@Roger Moore: Oh, it wasn’t real speculation based on anything. It was just along the lines of “wouldn’t it be amazing if Bannon has also flipped and has been wearing a wire for months.”
You just know people in the White House are freaking out. Who in there is wearing a wire? They’re thinking back – “Did I talk to George P.? When did I do that? What did we talk about?” And there could be more people wearing wires. The paranoia must be palpable.
Emma
Oh good lord. I’m in moderation for the word ca–si-no?
Bobby Thomson
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: are you one of those people who pronounces suite as suit and not “sweet?”
Starfish
@Starfish:
Meeting with auto industry leaders.
Immigration roundtable
Timurid
@Ridnik Chrome:
“If Mueller wants answers, he should get out the waterboard…”
Kraux Pas
figure I’ll take advantage of the open thread to bitch about Fox News. I was watching Laura Ingraham with my Dad yesterday and she was talking about Kevin spacey. She was complaining about how Spacey came out in an attempt to deflect from the sexual harassment allegations.
Now if she’s right about what he did, yes, that’s awful. However, I’m sick of Fox News pushing this narrative that if you’re not a straight white Christian, you can hold up your identity as a shield to protect yourself from the consequences of your crimes. As always, Republicans and other God-fearing Americans are the real victims of Kevin Spacey’s crime. Fox just wants more eyeballs and more rage toward the “other” half of America. They’re ramping up the propaganda for a war effort.
Pretty much all punditry now is conjecture about people’s intentions. Little attention is paid to actual provable facts. Let the courts deal with Kevin Spacey and let him tell his story as he sees fit. Make judgments about it, sure, but if all you have to offer your TV audience is broad speculation designed to make people mad at teh gayz, save it.
Major Major Major Major
@Yarrow: The Onion (photo): Nude Aides Huddled Around Trump Assure Him No One Wearing Wire
https://politics.theonion.com/nude-aides-huddled-around-trump-assure-him-no-one-weari-1820015399
Yarrow
@Kay:
Sessions is a traitor. Mueller has noticed.
Major Major Major Major
@Kraux Pas:
Oh, she’s right. That’s what he did and it’s despicable.
trollhattan
@Roger Moore:
I’m demonstrably not lucky enough for Bannon to have been flipped. I think he’s adroit at dishing out Republican Koolaid while not drinking it himself while furthering his Nazi-lite ambitions. He’s the oddest of ducks but seems pretty shrewd. The others, not so much.
Corner Stone
@Yarrow: That’s where you gotta give it up to Spicey. For whatever reason, he is alleged to have notebooks and notebooks of contemporaneous writings about everything that happened. Everyone else is sweating bullets but Spicedog is thumbing through his notes sitting beside a fireplace in a smoking jacket with a pipe.
Kay
Trump may have wanted Sessions out not because Sessions recused, but because Sessions is vulnerable on the same issues Trump is and a dirty attorney general is a giant deal. They can’t call Sessions the “coffee boy” and dodge it.
Yarrow
@Major Major Major Major: I saw that last night. LOL. I wonder how close to reality it is. Of course these days “wearing a wire” can also mean “my phone is a microphone.”
Amir Khalid
@Roger Moore:
If he did that, Trump would be hanging a big I AM GUILTY sign on his own neck. He can’t be that stu … yes, I see your point.
trollhattan
@Major Major Major Major:
Thanks for that, had I not looked I would have missed the installment of Onion Joe Biden! Didn’t know he was still viable.
Gin & Tonic
@Emma: Yes, that’s a bad word. As are the names of some of the games played there.
Thoroughly Pizzled
@NotMax: “Indeed, that was an apt and true reply which was given to Alexander the Great by a pirate who had been seized. For when that king had asked the man what he meant by keeping hostile possession of the sea, he answered with bold pride, ‘What do you mean by seizing the whole earth; because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, while you who does it with a great fleet are styled emperor.'”
rikyrah
@Kay:
I’m not alarmed……I’m smiling.
Yes, he lied under oath to the Senate – TWICE.
And, that bullshyt about him being a former Senator…
But, there’s someone who won’t care that he was a former Senator…but, will be very interested in his LIES.
Oh yeah…
Oh yeah…
Kay
I wonder if people freak out less about terrorist attacks because of the regular gun slaughters. It’s awful but as far as risk being a victim of a mass shooting is much more likely and there’s one of those every coupla months. I wonder if it’s had a numbing effect.
Ridnik Chrome
@Major Major Major Major: Not to defend Spacey too much, but it would have been kind of difficult for him to address the allegations without also acknowledging that he’s gay.
But her emails!!!
@Kay:
You shouldn’t able to call out a foreign policy adviser that you complimented on the campaign and included in campaign literature a coffee boy, but they did it anyway. They’ll just call Sessions a “Swamp Creature” foisted on Trump by the Republican Establishment.
Yarrow
@Kay: Trump wants Sessions out because he wants an AG who will fire Mueller. Congress has told Trump they won’t confirm anyone else, so he’s stuck. Trump doesn’t care if Sessions is a “dirty AG.” That was probably a selling point for appointing him.
Sessions is as dirty as they come, and not just the well-known white supremacy stuff, but Russia stuff as well. He’s a traitor. Russia encourages, funds and supplies propaganda via social media for white supremacy groups here. That fits very nicely with Sessions’ white supremacist ideals. Little wonder Sessions got in bed with Russia.
Olivia
I am just wondering which of these useful idiots will be the first to defenestrate himself after suffering self inflicted mortal wounds.
Corner Stone
@Yarrow:
But why would Trump care if there’s an “acting’ AG in place with no formal confirmation? It’s not like he gives a shit about making the trains run on time or how it would look.
JPL
@Kay: Oh my! I need a fainting couch.
OT I was in a local greasy spoon this morning where the local elite hang out. Anyway when everyone left, the owner spoke about career politicians and how they always are on the take. He pointed to the picture behind the counter of the former HHS secretary. lol
Shana
@trollhattan: I was also fond of the story about the Trump boys bursting in to the Intelligence briefing with sofa cushions duct taped to their chests volunteering to go to North Korea. Definitely worth checking out Folks.
Corner Stone
@Olivia: Those moving companies don’t drop pianos four stories onto people all by themselves, you know!
catclub
@Kraux Pas:
That horse has left the barn. You need to replace the onion on your belt.
rikyrah
@Corner Stone:
That’s why in that fabulous ‘ From Russia With Love’ meme, you notice that Spicey wasn’t arrested. I thought that was done on purpose. The man with the diaries isn’t going to be arrested.
trollhattan
Note from “real America”
Can we have a Costco-ish three-pack cabinet sweep comprising Sessions, DeVoss and Pruitt? [Dear Santa….]
Kay
@rikyrah:
I actually found him persuasive in his last appearance- I thought he was telling the truth- but it seems more and more likely to me that’s he’s involved. Either possibility works- Trump wants to get rid of him because of the recusal or Trump wants to get rid of him because Trump knows he’s implicated but Sessions stayed on which IMO makes it more likely he knew and knows something. It’s like “hiding in plain sight”.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Good point, Kay.
But her emails!!!
@Kay: It makes sense in a way. Most of the recent terrorist attacks don’t rise above the level of the run of the mill mass shooting event. It’s hard to get more than the racist asshats worked up about a terrorist attack, when we’re supposed to accept similar mass casualty events as the price of liberty.
I’d also point out that the people who get driven into a mass panic about these events generally are located far from the target of such events. People in New York or Boston where terrorists have actually struck aren’t in general soiling their pants and demanding all people who don’t pass the paper bag test be banned from entering the country. It’s weird and horribly insulting that the specter of urban violence is being used to drive rural and suburban voters to the polls.
Yarrow
@Corner Stone: You are correct. He wouldn’t care. I know we heard rumors that Trump was told that firing Sessions would be a bad idea. Perhaps Trump’s Russian owners told him it would be a bad idea as well.
It seemed clear that Trump wanted Sessions gone because he verbally abused him, which would be enough for most people to resign. Trump is a coward and doesn’t want to fire anyone–hilarious that “You’re Fired!” was his tag line–so tried to make Sessions so miserable he’d resign on his own. Why didn’t Sessions? My speculation is that Mueller told him not to. They have Sessions something so big he’s doing Mueller’s bidding in hopes of a good deal down the road.
Corner Stone
I think Andrea Mitchell just called Lindsey Graham a jagoff!!
.
.
.
Ok, so it was JAG Officer. But, still.
Kraux Pas
@Major Major Major Major:
Yeah, well, so is Fox’s pushing a narrative of “If you’re [gay, black, Messican, etc.] you can get away with anything. Too much of our political discourse these days is speculating on people’s motives. In addition to coming out, Spacey also admitted to his actions and apologized. Sexual assault is bad enough on its own merits. Ingraham is trying to use it an excuse to open up a new front in the War on White Christians. I’m tired of all this focus on motives and feelings rather than hard facts in the news media.
Spacey will pay for his crime and his coming out didn’t prevent people from hearing about it, regardless of intent. I don’t like Fox’s practice of playing up the idea that you can get away with things if you put the focus on your identity. It’s disgusting, even if this time she might happen to be correct. And that’s not even getting into the way the media plays criminal cases, getting people mad at the accused, putting their face up everywhere, and corrupting potential jury pools. This is bigger than Kevin Spacey.
ETA:
@Ridnik Chrome:
Truth. That’s why I said just let him tell his story as he sees fit. It was probably hard to know the best way to approach this. Identifying yourself as gay seems as good a starting point as any other. Question his motives all you want, but stick to provable things on TV and save the outrage.
Kay
The worst thing about the justice system is how it’s a big machine that takes a long time to fire up but once it’s running it keeps going, sometimes well past reason and in a way that drives normal people absolutely insane.
That’s also the best thing about the justice system – Mueller doesn’t have to “fight” Trump. He just has to keep going and the natural state of the thing is “going” once it’s started. He can go forever. Trump, on the other hand, has a limited term.
hedgehog the occasional commenter
@But her emails!!!: Jeff who?
Corner Stone
@trollhattan: DeVos, Pruitt and Zinke.
Mueller’s going to get Sessions. And Rexy T is just waiting for the tax rebate to hit his one year limit and then “he gone”.
NotMax
@Kay
You can’t spell bailiwick without b-a-i-l.
;)
Major Major Major Major
@Kraux Pas: I mean, the LGBT world is fucking pissed at Spacey right now, it’s real news.
@Ridnik Chrome: His apology was one sentence of “if I did it, I was drunk and I apologize” followed by a whole paragraph on “I am now choosing to live my life as an out and proud gay man, over my years I’ve had relationships with men and women and yadda yadda yadda”.
Yarrow
@Corner Stone: I wonder if Rex Tillerson has had his interview with Mueller yet?
Repatriated
@Kay:
He can’t jump, he has to be pushed. Voluntary resignation could be construed as willfully enabling a shutdown of the Special Prosecutor investigation — obstruction of justice.
ETA: Plus (as others pointed out before my post) whatever Muller has on him already.
NotMax
@Corner Stone
Throw in Wilbur Ross on drums and you’ve got a band.
;)
Kay
@But her emails!!!:
I think about getting shot quite a bit now. I’m not panicked – I don’t want to say it has changed what I do- but it crosses my mind daily now when someone is upset or angry (which happens quite a bit in my job)
My daughter said she was canvassing in 2012 and I honestly didn’t want her to do it- I was afraid some idiot would panic with a stranger at the door and shoot her. It’s just a part of my catalogue of risks in a way it wasn’t before.
This is new. I never thought about getting shot ten years ago.
Gin & Tonic
@Kay:
That’s the law. Ask Isaac Newton.
MomSense
@hedgehog the occasional commenter:
Don’t forget lack of sleep. If we all get through this ordeal, I think president Pelosi should declare a national day of napping.
JR
@NotMax: romans said it first
And probably the Greeks because the Romans ripped them off for almost everything
Patricia Kayden
@Cheryl Rofer: I’m sure Mueller wants to know this too.
@Kay: I think the deathblow to Trump will be the indictment of Donny Jr. for that Russian “adoption” meeting. I can’t see him staying in office if that happens.
Corner Stone
God damn but Trump is a fucking moron.
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
A drunken man’s words are a sober man’s thoughts.
– Old folk saying
Kay
@NotMax:
In my head I hear it as a diesel engine starting- that sound. They just stay running once you start one :)
trollhattan
@Corner Stone:
I’m objectively pro your proposed bundle, and believe Costco Concierge Service can assemble it.
Tim C.
@Kay: Might be one in the same. Appointing Sessions was part of the strategy to torpedo any investigation. What I think the Trumpistas didn’t count on or expect was that the Justice department rank-and-file, along with many of the high-level appointees, saw themselves as serious about their duties and weren’t going to go along with Trump and his enablers. I’m very confident Sessions was told the FBI had something very very damaging about him right before he recused himself. Josh Marshal is right, this is a slow moving lava-flow headed straight for the White House.
Yarrow
@Patricia Kayden: Trump will throw everyone under the bus before he goes. That includes Don, Jr.
Corner Stone
@NotMax: Oh, no way. I’ve been hearing bad things about Wilbur Ross. Really, terrible, very terrible things about him. Not a lot of people know it but Wilbur can’t keep time. Did you know that? Because it’s something I discovered the other day. And it’s getting a lot more notice. More and more, believe me.
The Moar You Know
@Major Major Major Major: She was absolutely right as regards what Spacey was trying to do – and Spacey showed himself just as much of an anti-gay bigot as anyone at Fox by doing what he did. Thought his announcement would rally the community to his defense, “because all the gays fuck kids like I enjoy doing, just like they say on Fox”.
In the real world, the gay community’s reaction seems to be “thanks for perpetuating centuries-old myths about us, you can fuck right off and die in prison, pedophile”.
Nobody is going to come to his defense.
Patricia Kayden
@Kraux Pas:
And promptly lost his Netflix show and his international Oscar. No one is buying his attempt to deflect away from his misconduct by coming out. No one on our side (liberals) is giving Spacey a pass. Calling Spacey out for his odiousness is not a political issue so good luck to Fox News for trying to make it so. The same can be said about Weinstein who has been universally condemned by folks on the Left.
Corner Stone
@MomSense:
I hereby nominate myself to serve as Nap Czar of the Pelosi administration.
Patricia Kayden
@Yarrow: He has no loyalty to Republicans but I assume he has some loyalty to the fruit of his loins and wouldn’t stand for his son going to jail. Or so I hope. He’s despicable but I’m hoping he has some kind of loyalty to his own kid (although the kid is an ogre).
Yarrow
@Patricia Kayden: No, he’s a narcissist. See Mnem’s comments (and others’) on this issue. A narcissist is loyal to no one. The one possible exception I see is Ivanka, but that’s still unlikely. She’s clearly his favorite, but even so, he’ll toss her under the bus and blame Jared before he takes the fall for any of them.
Kraux Pas
@Major Major Major Major:
The LGBT community is made up primarily of private individuals without a cable network that reaches millions of people. I’m gay and I do think that what he did is awful. I honestly can’t say I know for sure he was trying to deflect responsibility. If he was, he failed. Also if he was, why apologize? Why admit to it to hurting that young man if you’re trying to get away with it?
And again, what Ingraham did there is done on Fox every day. Point to an out group and say “look at how they try to get away with things.” This propaganda effort is pitting white Christian American against everyone else. Whether this or any one example has merit is beside the point. This is about Fox painting Republicans as the great victims of our day.
The Moar You Know
Ask yourself, “would Fred Trump have let Donald go to jail?” and the answer is, of course he would. So Trump will let the boys go to jail. He’ll let Jared go to jail. And I suspect he’d probably let Ivanka go to jail but would be reluctant to put money on that.
Corner Stone
@Patricia Kayden: Oh, they hate each other. Or more accurately, Trump despises his weakling son Don Jr and DT Jr hates his dad for it.
Trump would easily throw Jr into the pit if it saved his ass. The only reason he may take umbrage at Don Jr getting arrested is because the way it would reflect on him.
Corner Stone
So glad we have a US Constituion. Because I wonder what Trump would be trying to shred right now if we didn’t. Stupid fucking asshole.
The Moar You Know
@Kraux Pas: True. Not exactly news. Most people have noticed this since Fox became a thing back in the 1990s.
satby
@Corner Stone: close enough
Major Major Major Major
@Kraux Pas:
As can be said about any community. That… isn’t really a point?
As for the rest, he didn’t admit to it, he said quite clearly that he had no recollection of doing it. Either he was deflecting or he’s that much of an asshole that he figured this would be a good time for a heartfelt coming out speech. Either way it’s not a good look. And yes, the LGBT community is outraged, based on the fact that you and I (both gay men) are outraged, all the publications I’ve seen are outraged, our more-or-less-official spokesfolks like Dan Savage are outraged, etc. etc.
ETA I’m sure Milo would happily come to his defense though
NotMax
@Corner Stone
“Don Jr.? He was just a coffee boy.”
Kay
@Tim C.:
I’m not entirely comfortable with this because it makes Sessions passive. If Sessions is an actor then he has his own motives. It’s possible Sessions is running Trump. Maybe Trump can’t get rid of him, because Sessions is calling the shots. I don’t know.
Yarrow
@Corner Stone: Yes, the only reason he’d save Don Jr is if he thought doing so would somehow save his own ass.
rikyrah
@NotMax:
Wilbur ” I forgot TWO BILLION DOLLARS worth of assets on my disclosure form” Ross?
Wilbur ” USED TO BE ON THE BOARD OF THE CYPRUS BANK” Ross?
Yeah….THAT Wilbur Ross.
Corner Stone
@satby: One time on MSNBC kasie Hunt was throwing it back to Chuck Todd and he said something like, “Good work Hunt.”
With no break in between. She kind of stumbled there, perplexed for a second. I’m not sure he ever realized how bad that sounded.
different-church-lady
@Patricia Kayden: I’m a little confused about how he was supposed to fess up to harassing a boy without also admitting to being gay, or bi at the least.
Kay
@Tim C.:
It seems clear that they all lied with the blanket denials on Russian “contacts” but that was clear after the ever-changing orphan story. The only question is how much coordination there was.
FlipYrWhig
@Corner Stone: That’s what the whole gross Jared-Ivanka thing is too: Trump sees Jared as the son he never had. Even though he’s had 3 male children, it’s the son-in-law who’s the go-getting successful “young me.”
Yarrow
@Kay: Putin’s calling the shots for all of them.
different-church-lady
@trollhattan:
Well, thank heavens for that.
Corner Stone
@NotMax: “He just happened to also be named Don. Some people called him “Jr” because he ran junior level errands, I believe. I’m not sure, that’s just what I was told. You’ll have to ask them.”
Major Major Major Major
@different-church-lady: Look up his statement. He didn’t just ‘admit to’ being gay. And he did it after saying he didn’t remember the incident (which is not ‘fessing up to’ it) as opposed to something like “yes, I’m gay, but now is not the time to get into that…”
FlipYrWhig
@Corner Stone: A friend who had studied abroad in Spain told a story about how a different guy with rudimentary Spanish tried to party with a local by asking ¿Quieres bailar con yo?. He learned not to call a Spanish-speaking woman “coño.”
Yarrow
@Corner Stone: “I don’t know him all that well. I just paid for his education. His mother raised him.”
Kraux Pas
@Major Major Major Major:
The point I was trying to make is that speculating about something in your private life or complaining about it to your friends or on the internet isn’t the same as broadcasting it to millions of people. Ingraham, like most people at Fox News, is totally irresponsible and is playing up a narrative that goes beyond this particular case. I’m not giving them a pass simply because Kevin Spacey is also an asshole.
uick system witrh m ore sever punishment.
Der Fuhrer is running his mouth gain. Usual nonsense – bad trade deals, bad immigration law, etc. While discussing the attack yesterday (he did get around to remembering the victims) he complained that the way we hold terrorist accountable is a joke, The process takes to long and who knows if they are every punished. He wants a quick system with more severe punishment. So in effect our Article 3 court system is a joke and as he said the laughing stock of the world. Maybe a quick solution would be a lynch mob. He was asked about sending this guy to GITMO and he replied that he hasn’t made a decision. Now the laughing stock Article 3 courts, esp. in NY and DC, have been handing down long sentences involving terrorism cases. As far as I remember the trial process at GITMO has generated 0 convictions. They are still arguing about how to conduct the trials. NOW that is a laughing stock.
Yarrow
@Major Major Major Major: He didn’t even say, “I’m gay.” He said he “chooses to live his life as a gay man.” It’s like an acting part or something. It’s still one step removed.
d58826
Der Fuhrer is running his mouth gain. Usual nonsense – bad trade deals, bad immigration law, etc. While discussing the attack yesterday (he did get around to remembering the victims) he complained that the way we hold terrorist accountable is a joke, The process takes to long and who knows if they are every punished. He wants a quick system with more severe punishment. So in effect our Article 3 court system is a joke and as he said the laughing stock of the world. Maybe a quick solution would be a lynch mob. He was asked about sending this guy to GITMO and he replied that he hasn’t made a decision. Now the laughing stock Article 3 courts, esp. in NY and DC, have been handing down long sentences involving terrorism cases. As far as I remember the trial process at GITMO has generated 0 convictions. They are still arguing about how to conduct the trials. NOW that is a laughing stock.
Major Major Major Major
@Kraux Pas: Fair enough. When I read your original comment it sounded to me like you had been unaware of the controversy.
@Yarrow: Eh, that’s fairly typical language actually. Being closeted and being out are both choices, being closeted is the one that’s acting.
Kay
This is a real problem for him. Now, you all know what he’ll say – he’ll rely on his exact denial and the specific response to a question but he has a duty to disclose! He’s not a criminal defendant. He can’t pretend he doesn’t have information and rely on the exact wording of the question – Al Franken isn’t required to know exactly what transpired when crafting the question. obviously. Franken doesn’t know and that’s why he asked.
catclub
@But her emails!!!:
I would say it is weird and incredibly effective.
Corner Stone
@Kay: How funny would it have been if even just one of these idiots had answered his form truthfully on Russian contacts?
You’d have like 10 guys all be, “Nope. No foreign contacts. Nothing to do with Russia or Russians.”
And then that one guy, “There was that time in 1998 and then again in 2001, 2002, 2008, 2010…”
Everyone would be, “You did what? You fucking dumbass! You told the EFFING TRUTH!!?? That was the WHOLE GIG, MAN!”
FlipYrWhig
@Yarrow: @Major Major Major Major: Somehow I haven’t seen anyone comparing Spacey’s statement to former NJ Gov Jim McGreevey’s, who attempted to dodge corruption allegations by redirecting his statement into coming out as “a gay American.”
d58826
@FlipYrWhig: One of the trade policies that Der Fuhrer was complaining about was our trade deficit with China. He also bragged about all the jobs that were coming back to the US as a result of his policies. When is Ivanka going to start making her handbags and shoes in the good old US of A?
Kraux Pas
@Yarrow:
Major Major Major Major
@FlipYrWhig: Oh man, I remember that!
What makes Spacey’s so egregious is that it’s deflecting/distracting from sexually assaulting a child which is, you know, a problematic stereotype.
sherparick
@Major Major Major Major: And yet 46% of our fellow citizens who vote thought this gang would “Make America Great” again. (Of course, most of these persons really heard “White” = “Great” and Trump did not say exactly what we would be great at (Most Corrupt Administration since Harding, Most authoritarian since Nixon, Most Feckless since Buchanan, Most Malevolent since Cheney (first term of W’s administration, the second term of W’s I rate as being only as bad as Millard Fillimore).
Worst Presidents: Trump (his daily spits on his oath of office and every action is motivated by either greed, spite, or resentment) already has the crown by a mile and, like damage Commodus caused to the Roman Empire, we will be dealing with adverse consequences of this guy for 2,000 years); Cheney (who was effectively President in W’s first term); Nixon, Buchanan, Pierce, Andrew Johnson (who the Senate should have convicted and removed from office); Rutherford B. Hayes (the gilded age President who bought his office by consigning Blacks and white Republicans like Longstreet to 90 years of Jim Crow in 1877); all the rest of the Gilded age Presidents from Grant to TR. There are the mixed bags (Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Andrew Jackson, Grant, TR, Taft, Woodrow Wilson, Ronald Reagan (reaching out to Gorbachev in his second term), G.W.H. Bush) who did terrible things (usually against Black people and Indigenous American tribes), but also some good (even Andrew Jackson for the consignment of John C. Calhoun’s presidential ambitions to political oblivion and making “the Union” a popular cause in both the North and Border States. Lincoln tapped on that emotion to rally these people, almost all white supremacists, the Union cause at the beginning of the Civil War.)
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: The people I personally know who have won the diversity visa lottery were from Nepal and Mali.
Yarrow
@FlipYrWhig: I’d forgotten all about that. It was also pathetic.
Corner Stone
@d58826: I had to put it on mute after just a little bit. He just sounds so stupid. Like his tough guy schtick just screams that he knows nothing about what he is talking about. And then the “TV Show Tease Reveal”, where he says that a “Big Name” company is coming back to the US and it’s “really going to surprise people. Big name. Bigly.”
The Moar You Know
@catclub: I’d agree. The Foxbots in my family all live in rural/semi-rural areas, and their number one concern last election were the riots in Ferguson, and how they’d be on their doorstep next, killin’ cops and good white folks. Amazingly effective GOTV strategy. Be ready for it, because they will keep doing it every cycle until it stops working.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: If you read the article you’ll see that the effects have shifted in recent years, but the article goes into the original intent, pork-barrel service for the Irish constituents of a particular Congressman starting in the 80’s.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
I’m sure Trump/Fox News won’t mention this but I believe 7 of the 8 people killed in yesterday’s truck attack in NYC were tourists 5 Argentinians visiting for their 30 year high school reunion, 1 Belgian and 1 German national. Belgians and Argentinians were also among the injured…
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/10/31/5-argentinians-1-belgian-1-german-among-dead-in-lower-manhattan-terror-attack/
catclub
@Corner Stone:
winning by boring them to death. “we talked about vodka” “we talked about vodka and russian women” “we talked about crappy russian cars, and vodka,
and women, and dash cams”
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: I did read it. Both the examples I gave are from early to mid aughts. USCIS under T is right now totally fucking with Indians (and Chinese*) with pre-approved I-140s. Fuck you code coolies. Should make IEEE very happy.
*Second largest group affected by the new changes to
employment based green cards.
catclub
@sherparick: I think in terms of stupidly killing lots of innocent people, the Cheney admin is still the worst presidency.
Trump has thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) to catch up on in that regard. He may do it, but has not yet.
The long term deaths (coal and other pollution) are harder to rate.
trollhattan
@different-church-lady:
The whole wants-to-slash-federal-education-dollars-that-don’t-exist thing is too precious. What a
snowflake.prostratedragon
@mai naem mobile: Oddly enough, those two always reminded me of Boris and Natasha.
germy
catclub
@Cheryl Rofer:
See the picture at the top of the previous post from the blog. The fourth one is Steve.
TenguPhule
@Amir Khalid:
The investigation is still young.
Yarrow
@germy: It’s hard to run for president when you’re in prison.
TenguPhule
@Roger Moore:
Only from the Republicans.
I suspect the Russians would not be so easily stopped.
TenguPhule
@catclub:
Just two wars worth of difference.
Which is frightening in itself.
mainmata
My source at USDA says that Clovis the Hut is definitely toast for the “science adviser” position, despite the WH’s protestations otherwise.
Corner Stone
@catclub:
Give Poohurto eh Reeko a little while. It won’t match the total of dead Iraqis but IMO it could catch dead US GI’s. And we’re only 9 months in. What’s that? I think I hear Seoul calling, hold on…
TenguPhule
@Roger Moore:
Deport him. He has the life expectancy of a mayfly outside of the USA.
sukabi
@Ridnik Chrome: not really. The allegation was that as a 29 yo man he made advances on a 14 yo boy.
Claiming to be “gay” is not justification for pedo behavior.
Miss Bianca
@hedgehog the occasional commenter: hell to the yes! It’s what I’ve been doing for the past, oh…I dunno…several days, at least.
r€nato
I wonder if they can get his second chin to flip on him.
Corner Stone
Uh oh. Trouble in the WH? Gabe Sherman reporting Trump is preparing the grounds to throw JarJar under that beautiful, very beautiful bus.
TenguPhule
I’m sure it sounded better in the original German.
The Moar You Know
@TenguPhule: I understand (and may be REALLY wrong about this) that he’s under sentence of death in Ukraine.
randy khan
@catclub:
If they gut the state and local tax deduction, the bill won’t pass. If they gut IRAs, the bill might pass, but they’d lose tons of votes in the midterms. If they don’t gut one or both of those things, they don’t have money corporate tax cuts, killing the estate tax, and tax cuts for rich people. It’s a problem for them. I am weeping very small tears for their plight.
d58826
@germy: MSNBC/Vanity fair are reporting that Der Fuhrer is mightly bigly pissed at Jared for the decisions that have lead to this point. In fact some of his advisers are making plans for the Mueller investigation to lead directly to impeachment.
d58826
@TenguPhule: As i said above – how about going right to a lynch mob. Rope is cheap, the mob loves its work and I’m sure there are still a few folks in his base who remember how its done.
TenguPhule
@The Moar You Know: Its not an official sentence. But yes, he’s a dead man if he sets foot on Ukraine soil again.
Elie
Hey, what is the likelihood that the individuals potentially implicated by Manafort et al might be other Repubs in the Republican leadership such as McConnel and Ryan? Could explain some of their lame opposition to Trump…
hueyplong
@Corner Stone: If the source of your post is a detailed article as opposed to a tweet, do you have a link?
TenguPhule
@d58826: He promised to bring back torture and the murder of suspect’s families.
It was one of the few times he told the truth.
Now the million dollar question is, does anyone in the justice system and/or military have the moral courage to not comply with it.
d58826
@Amir Khalid: and the pardon only covers federal crimes. If he talks after a pardon then state AG’s can go after him, if they aren’t already. I think NY AG is
NotMax
@d58826
Stoned with lumps of ‘Murican coal.
Job creation!
d58826
@TenguPhule: Yep and the ‘funny’ thing is he is talking about sending this guy to GITMO. IIRC GITMO has generated 0 convictions against any of the 9/11 terrorists
SFAW
@Corner Stone:
It’s Bobby Three Sticks questioning Sammy Three(-Plus) Chins?
TenguPhule
@d58826:
Its GOP code for “indefinite detention without trial and we’ll torture him too.”
One more way to get the base accustomed to dictatorship and ignoring the rule of law.
cain
@Yarrow:
Yet somehow, libs are the traitors. Because Fox.
Yutsano
I feel compelled to point out that the Mueller indictment announcement of Manafort happened on October 30th.
That also happens to be my birthday.
NotMax
@d58826
Most recent example may provide a clue much more realistic than anything out of Dolt 45’s yap.
Villago Delenda Est
@Yutsano: Well, happy belated birthday/indictment day!
Yutsano
@Villago Delenda Est: Thanks!
Was watching with a bunch of friends in a Greek restaurant in Dallas. My dual citizen British friend was especially amused. Especially since the charges were being listed.
NotMax
@Yutsano
A belated happy celebration.
Corner Stone
@hueyplong: I saw it reported on MSNBC in real time, but here you go:
“You Can’t Go Any Lower”: Inside the West Wing, Trump Is Apoplectic as Allies Fear Impeachment
“After Monday’s indictments, the president blamed Jared Kushner in a call to Steve Bannon, while others are urging him to take off the gloves with Robert Mueller.”
catclub
@NotMax: I thought it was impossible to bring jihadis to the United States for trial in civilian courts and they could only be tried at Guantanamo? Another ‘Negro President only, exception’?
NotMax
@NotMax
Sigh. Bad linky.
The fix.
Corner Stone
@SFAW: According to reports, Clovis testified before the Grand Jury the week before Bobby unsealed the indictments and guilty plea from Papa Doc.
Was he truthful? Could he feel his enormous goose being cooked as he sat there lying? Tune in next time, Bat Fans!
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@Major Major Major Major: It reminds me of Graham James’ approach to the charges against him; luckily, the Canadian courts weren’t impressed by his reasoning.
Gin & Tonic
@The Moar You Know: Ukraine abolished capital punishment in the year 2000. They are not barbarians like the US.
catclub
I would argue that bringing in talented newcomers favors the US.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
I have long suspected that Spacey is an asshole and it was no comfort to find out exactly what kind of asshole he is (and I don’t mean his claim to be gay). Ick.
TenguPhule
@Gin & Tonic:
Sure. And Manafort would still turn up in the morgue within 24 hours of setting foot on Ukraine soil.
catclub
How about Cut Cut Cut Proposal for old times sake?
Miss Bianca
@Yutsano: Heck of a birthday, present, yes?
PaulWartenberg
@Villago Delenda Est:
why do you think the word KAKISTOCRACY is back in vogue? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakistocracy
the trump administration is made up of the dumbest people who can still figure out how to walk (dear God, they didn’t understand light switches! I’m serious). Topped at the head spot by the greatest moron who ever lived.
Stealing this from Portal 2:
“trump’s not just a regular moron. He’s the product of the greatest assholes of a generation working together with the express purpose of promoting the dumbest moron who ever lived. And 62 million of you just put him in charge of the entire country.”
Gin & Tonic
@TenguPhule: I believe the current government would appreciate the opportunity to try him publicly. I’m not discounting the possibility that an independent contractor might want to resolve the issue more quickly, but that could happen almost anywhere.
NotMax
@catclub
The Lizzie Borden Act.
Matt McIrvin
I’m seeings some angst, particularly from lefties inclined to hand-wring about the uselessness of Democrats, about this article claiming that Nancy Pelosi is trying to get Democratic candidates to pipe down about impeaching Trump. I’m not sure how to think about it–it’s not “impeachment is off the table” as one might think from the headline, but don’t know if this is sound strategy or insane. I’d be doing some hair-on-fire screaming if I were running for office, but that’s why I don’t run for office.
SFAW
@Corner Stone:
Yeah, I know. I eagerly await him rolling over on Lying Littledick (literally and figuratively) and the Malevolent KKKeebler Elf (among others).
In light of the timing of the Papadopoulos announcement, I was considering saying something about Clovis being hoist on his own petard, but I figure that would have to be a pretty fucking big petard.
TenguPhule
@SFAW:
Harpoons and Whales came to mind.
Lot of blubber to be rendered from him.
Mnemosyne
@Matt McIrvin:
If we don’t win back the House, we won’t be able to impeach the fucker.
WaterGirl
@Corner Stone: From your link:
I’d say you can go lover than 33%, maybe by another, say, 6 points?
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: Oh, it’s not a ‘claim’ to be gay, that’s been not-even-a-secret for years.
Yutsano
@Matt McIrvin: Honestly it really depends on the feel in your district. I don’t think it can be ignored, but don’t run JUST on the grounds of ousting Dolt45. I think she’s aiming for a broader strategy than get rid of the moron. On that point she’s spot on.
WaterGirl
@Corner Stone: Again, from your link:
Wow. Their idea of honorable behavior is to leave a room when Russia is talked bout? Sounds like Sgt. Schultz to me. They may as well stick their fingers in their ears and say “lalalalala, I can’t hear you”.
Yutsano
Miss Bianca: Especially considering where I was. It was quite the great birthday lunch!
SFAW
@catclub:
большой хорошо!
(probably need to fix bolshoi)
ericblair
@SFAW:
Ochen’ khorosho. Bol’shoy khorosho would mean “big good”. Grammar is a good thing, and Russian has a lot of it.
Emma
@Matt McIrvin: It is simple. When your enemy is busy destroying himself, keep quiet and let him do it.
NotMax
@SFAW
Pet peeve.
Hoist with (or by) his own petard.
A petard is for all intents and purposes a big grenade, a metal canister with around 6 pounds of gunpowder inside. It hoists an awful lot, but one really cannot be hoist on it.
JR
@Matt McIrvin: Pelosi’s strategy is wise
Trump’s legal affairs are just that — legal affairs — the bedrock upon which our nation of laws depend upon. If the Democrats try to seize upon this for immediate partisan advantage we are on the road to ruin.
We may be anyways but no need to hurry it along.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
It’s more the it makes sense that I tried to molest a 12-year-old, because I’m gay! switcheroo that’s creeping me out. As you well know, pedophile =/= gay, even if it’s a man molesting boys.
sm*t cl*de
This is Sam Clovis the
white supremacistNazi who thinks white liberals are “Race Traitors” for failing to support the Party of Low-Melanin.He sounds nice.
Sister Golden Bear
@Kraux Pas:
That’s exactly what he did, plus the way he did provides a huge amount of fodder for the Talibaptists’ “TLBG people as sexual predators” scare tactics.
So there’s a whole bunch of us in the TLGB communities are beyond pissed about it, and denounced him for it.
Particularly galling because Spacey was seeking support from the very community he’s studiously avoided for yes.
So a lot of us are saying “he’s dead to me.”
Calouste
@TenguPhule: Most of the terrorists are killed in the execution of their act. Actually capturing one alive would be a great opportunity to find out some more about how and why these guys are radicalized, and how more of that can be prevented in the future.
Major Major Major Major
@Matt McIrvin:
I presume it’s not from the same people who thought Hillary was a monster for focusing on trump.
I don’t think it’s an insane strategy—many folks who aren’t concern trolling have compared trump to Berlusconi, who was brought down in the end not from his outrageous personality and endless scandals, but by a campaign emphasizing how he was wrong on the issues.
Whether it’s a good strategy is a different question from whether it’s insane.
Major Major Major Major
@Sister Golden Bear:
Are we leading with T now? Why do you hate bisexuals? ?
George Spiggott
@catclub:
Yes, CCCP would be more appropriate for the TrumPutin admin.
Barbara
@Sister Golden Bear: I would put a slightly different though no more charitable spin on this: Celebrities rank high on narcissism scales. Even the noble ones have a lot more self-regard than the average person. They and their “handlers” are obsessed with their image. Spacey has been cagey about his orientation (certainly his right!) but having been exposed in flagrante they decided to “come out” in order to preserve his image, as much as to deflect blame. In fact, climbing on someone in your bed when you are blind drunk could actually be caused by something other than being gay horny — like being blind drunk and not knowing who was in the bed. Whatever. An apology should be an apology and how you look in the process should be at most a subsidiary concern.
rikyrah
Following New York attack, Trump flunks another leadership test
11/01/17 09:29 AM—UPDATED 11/01/17 09:40 AM
By Steve Benen
In the immediate aftermath of the suspected terrorist incident in New York yesterday afternoon, Donald Trump tweeted a series of clumsy but inoffensive messages. “My thoughts, condolences and prayers to the victims and families of the New York City terrorist attack,” the president said at one point. “God and your country are with you!”
Trump did not, however, wait long before following his worst instincts.
…………………
But the more disheartening takeaway is Trump’s apparent inability to deal responsibly with terrorist violence. This morning’s tantrum was ugly, but as regular readers know, it was not out of character for this president.
Mnemosyne
@Barbara:
That’s not what Anthony Rapp says happened, though. Spacey is the one claiming he was too drunk to know he was molesting a 12-year-old. At this point, Rapp has a LOT more credibility than Spacey does.
Matt McIrvin
@Major Major Major Major: The guy I see expressing the most displeasure about it was definitely anti-Hillary, and complains a lot about how Democrats are bullying the left to vote Democratic with scare stories.
Major Major Major Major
@Matt McIrvin: so the guy who thinks democrats bully people into voting for them with scare tactics is mad at Pelosi’s insufficient commitment to scare tactics.
Elizabelle
God. Possum Queen just mentioned trying to repeal Obamacare again in the Spring.
It’s red meat for the worst among us. LOL. I think Trumpanzees gonna have a lot more pressing concerns by Spring.
Mnemosyne
@Matt McIrvin:
Yeah, we all know that the prospect of Trump winning the presidency on a technicality was just a “scare story” that people made up.
Because I’m a jerk, I would be asking your friend exactly what Trump needs to do before he’ll admit that he’s a bad guy who needs to be stopped by the Democrats.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: 14, FYI.
Major Major Major Major
@Elizabelle: there are no Obamacare reconciliation instructions in the budget they’re working on so……
catclub
@rikyrah:
I read somewhere that a majority of the victims were from Argentina.
rikyrah
Notre Dame takes advantage of Trump rule, drops birth control coverage
11/01/17 12:40 PM
By Steve Benen
It’s about a month since the Trump administration dramatically altered the Affordable Care Act’s approach to birth control, opening the door to practically every U.S. employer refusing to cover their workers’ contraception. All it takes it showing “sincerely held” religious or moral objections.
Once the policy was made official, one of the obvious questions was just how many employers would take advantage of the shift. Trump’s Department of Health and Human Services suggested the number would be quite modest, and most Americans wouldn’t notice any change, but once the door was open, it was difficult to guess how many would walk through.
Slate noted that one rather high-profile employer wasted little time in embracing Trump’s policy.
catclub
@Major Major Major Major: reconciliation bills have to address taxes and budgets. I would think that repeal of the ACA mandate – which was ruled a tax – would qualify.
Barbara
@Mnemosyne: Oh yeah, certainly, he does. My point is that I can actually believe there are people who might not have remembered. Although not exculpatory, I believe that Rapp was 14 not 12. They had previously worked together when Rapp was 12. That’s probably why he was there and why Spacey knew that he was not an adult.
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major: I’m not going to Google this, but if Anthony Rapp was a girl, would she have been of the age of sexual consent in some areas of the US? I’m not trying to defend Spacey and not sure I really want to know details, but there’s a big difference between 12 and 14.
Major Major Major Major
@catclub: IIRC the reconciliation instructions in a budget have to be about specific things, last year had healthcare because taxes were supposed to be this year.
Elizabelle
She’s pressed on it, and repeats it.
Sarah Huckabee Goebbels
Barbara
@Gin & Tonic: No. Not in New York State. I believe the age of consent is at least 17 for everyone. It’s certainly not 14, and a lot of states have allowances for age difference between the parties, to further confuse things. But Spacey was above that age, even if one applied (e.g., it will sometimes be a three year differential that will result in some allowances for the fact that there was a consensual relationship).
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
But looked younger, by everyone’s accounts.
Major Major Major Major
@Barbara: I seem to remember it’s 16 somewhere but I dunno.
@Mnemosyne: facts are real tho
Elizabelle
Fresh thread would be nice.
Although I gotta get out and go vote. That will make me smile.
I do wonder how CNN’s monofocus on Terrorism! and Dangerous Immigrants! is going to play out in next Tuesday’s elections.
Strikes me that broadcasting Sarah Huckabee Goebbels is a double-edged sword. OTOH, you inform Americans how shabby their government has become; how much it’s derailed.
OTOH, you let SHGoebbels and der Trumpf go right over the head of sane people and broadcast their message straight to their basest of bases. Of course, Fox News no doubt broadcasts the press conferences, so it’s not like wingnuts need to go to CNN ….
But it’s horrifying. What we see on Facebook. I see people frothing about the uranium deal. They are incensed Hillary was not investigated. These are Nazis; just plain fucking Nazis. They are among us.
Ruckus
@MomSense:
Monday is the official day of napping.
It has been so proclaimed
Ruckus
@Corner Stone:
Nothing like stating the obvious.
germy
@Elizabelle:
Here’s some of the actual stuff, compiled by boingboing
Lots of “Jesus wants you to vote against Hillary” stuff and “Texas, get ready!” garbage.
Even a Bernie Sanders coloring book!
Kilgore Trout
@NotMax:
Steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king
— Bob Dylan
rikyrah
Would appreciate an Afternoon thread
germy
Major Major Major Major
@germy: That or they just want to hit him real hard.
Mnemosyne
@germy:
One guy in the Politico comments is like, Why aren’t they releasing the pro-Hillary ads that Russia ran? Uh, because Russia didn’t do pro-Hillary ads, moron?
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
True. I was misremembering what people were saying about Rapp first meeting Spacey when he was 12 but not being molested until he was 14.
low-tech cyclist
@Villago Delenda Est:
No longer “The Worst and the Stupidest.”
Bill Arnold
@Yarrow:
That’s a sweet, sweet rumor. Hoping that it is(or has been) arranged that D. Trump sees it somehow.
(It’s believable. Let’s say 45%(+/- 10% meta confidence) chance, just for fun.)
retr2327
@FlipYrWhig: Now I know why the proper Spanish is “conmigo” . . .
Bill Arnold
@schrodingers_cat:
Getting increasingly irritated by the immigration changes being pushed (and implemented) by the Trump administration. America is proceeding recklessly, stupidly rapidly on a path towards becoming a lower-status/ranking weaker nation in the sciences, and in general.
Reading a delightfully short and clear book by Timothy Snyder, “Bloodlands” author,
On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century, March 28th 2017, 128 pages
It’s mostly obvious but it goes down very easily.
Sad_Dem
@eric: He could come down with a bad case of gravitational poisoning.
debbie
Here’s my favorite bit on this guy:
I’m a polite Midwesterner, but I call bullshit on this.
John Collins
The amount of fat-shaming in this thread is off the charts.