My husband is a pretty good barometer for how political stories play among rank-and-file voters. He doesn’t follow politics as closely as we do, but he pays some attention.
He believed the “Bernie was robbed” narrative the media vultures* pushed after Politico published an excerpt of Donna Brazile’s book earlier this week. It played to his preconceived notions.
A new document that emerged yesterday provided context that played to my preconceived notions; it strongly suggests that Brazile’s dramatic narrative was a steaming load of horse shit. Via NBC:
Memo Reveals Details of Hillary Clinton-DNC Deal
WASHINGTON — The Democratic National Committee struck a deal with Hillary Clinton in 2015 that gave her campaign input on some party hiring and spending decisions, but required they be related only to preparations for the general election, according to a memo obtained by NBC News. It also left the door open for other candidates to make similar arrangements.
The document provides more context to the explosive claims made by former DNC Interim Chair Donna Brazile in a forthcoming book, an excerpt of which was published this week.
More context, yes, that’s one way to describe it. The only hinky thing in the agreement that I can see is a provision that let the Clinton campaign influence the DNC communications director hire prior to the primaries.
If you think Clinton is an evil harpy bent on torpedoing people-powered, sparrow-anointed revolutions, you could construe that provision as exerting undue influence before the nomination was settled. If not, you might interpret it as reasonable considering that Clinton’s campaign was bailing out a poorly run organization that was as broke as the 10 Commandments.
Anyhoo, here’s the relevant section of the memo — judge for yourself:
“Nothing in this agreement shall be construed to violate the DNC’s obligation of impartiality and neutrality through the Nominating process. All activities performed under this agreement will be focused exclusively on preparations for the General Election and not the Democratic Primary,” the memo states.
The piece linked above was published yesterday evening. Did it make a difference in how folks who don’t follow this bullshit closely grok the story? Did it tamp down anger among those who have an ax to grind?
Nope and nope. News about the memo doesn’t appear anywhere above the fold that I can find, so non-political junkies are unlikely to see it. And here’s a piece also published at NBC News a few hours ago by the same reporter, Alex Seitz-Wald:
Bernie Sanders Camp: The Fix Was in Against Us
WASHINGTON — Bernie Sanders campaign says they now have proof.
With last year’s primary still roiling the Democratic party more than a year later, two former Bernie Sanders campaign officials are charging the Democratic National Committee offered their campaign a less favorable fundraising deal than Hillary Clinton’s team received…
Jeff Weaver, the campaign’s former campaign manager, dismissed the clause in Clinton’s agreement limiting engagement exclusively to general election activity as a fig leaf.
“Throwing this catchall at the end saying that this document doesn’t say what it says is a little disingenuous,” he said. “Anybody who suggests we were being treated the same way is playing semantic games.”
According to the DNC, Sanders’ campaign could have had the same type of arrangement, but they were strapped when the Clinton campaign swooped in to bail out the DNC. Sanders operatives deny that they were ever offered a similar deal.
For me, all of this bullshit is further proof that facts don’t matter in partisan squabbles. Therefore, it seems appropriate to paraphrase Mr. Orwell: If you want a vision of the (Democratic Party’s) future, imagine a sensible pump stamping on Bernie’s face — forever.
That’s how one side will always see it. Others see Russians, all the way down. I see a window of opportunity to bury the goddamned hatchet and move the fuck on so we can oppose the honest-to-Christ authoritarian demagogue in the White House and his minions in Congress. But it’s closing.
*No disrespect intended toward vultures, which seem to be fairly noble creatures who perform an essential ecological function.
Elizabelle
That’s the problem, and the way these media storms work. You get the “facts” wrong at the outset, it’s very hard to reset the story.
We see that over and over again.
The timing is so wretched, just before Tuesday’s governor’s race in Virginia. Fuck Donna Brazile and her publishers.
I think Ralph Northam will win — there is a finite number of Republican voters, believe it or not, so don’t overestimate their power — but I am about done with the nailbiting. I am sick of living in a state with such existential crises, beautiful as it is.
Corner Stone
I’ve been watching a little of this Chris Matthews interview on MSNBC at noon CT with Alex Witt. I can’t stand Witt but this interview is about the thing I have ever seen from Matthews. He’s just ripping GWB and then Trump. Witt has no idea what to say to some of his answers so there are some awkward pauses. And then Tweety jumps into them with more vitriol and Witt is left stumbling into her next segue. It’s actually fascinating, and I am no fan of Chris Matthews.
John Revolta
Well, you know the old saying: a liberal is somebody who, when crawling through the desert, can still see the vulture’s side of the argument.
RedDirtGirl
I am always so impressed by how you, BC, and others here, express your support for Hillary as the most normal thing in the world. I feel that way, as well, and never got the Bernie bug, but I also understand the perspective that sees HRC as a corporate sellout and war monger. I think she was the most qualified presidential candidate I’ve seen in my lifetime, but I also understand the desire for a better, more truly progressive, Democratic Party. Am I just a wishy-washy gemini? Or is there more nuance for any of you guys, as well.
Kristine
The mainstream media still has not adjusted to the horror in the White House, so they keep defaulting to what they know, namely slamming HRC. She’s like their comfy sweater/Linus blanket. They will never give her the benefit of the doubt.
RedDirtGirl
@John Revolta: For a perfect example, see my comment, right after yours.
Corner Stone
Of course it was and is. Brazile has made the calculation that 1)no one would give a shit about her book so sales would flag and 2)this is her attempt to wash the stink of the HRC loss + Democratic Party wind down off of her delicate self.
She wants to sell her book, and get booked so she can blame everything on someone else. She is as much of an establishment D operator as Steny Hoyer for God’s sake. She knew what she signed up for. But I guess it still hurts sometimes.
JMG
I have no problem with Sanders himself really, except he’d get massacred if he was a presidential candidate. But there is a subset of his followers, not near a majority of them, but the loudest, who see him as a means of taking over the Democratic party for themselves. They’d just as soon the Dems lose every election until they’re in charge and act accordingly.
Corner Stone
@Kristine:
HRC will one day pass on. They will then stake her, burn her corpse and spread her ashes to the seven winds and any active volcano they can find.
The media will then go on to slag her and slam her for the next two or three decades, depending on how long it takes robots to take reporters jobs.
zhena gogolia
@RedDirtGirl:
There’s no nuance when you’re trying to save the country from an immoral, lying, destructive, insane piece of crap. No nuance whatsoever.
JMG
One addendum to my post above. Bernie could end this crap with one interview in which he says, “I lost fair and square because I didn’t get the most votes.” However, he’s been missing so far this week, which is odd for the Senator most likely to run over a nun with his car to make a live shot, no small honor in a Senate containing Schumer, McCain and Graham.
No Drought No More
Brazile is a self-promoter without much to say, while Hillary has sucked the oxygen out of power politics at presidential level since Al Gore was robbed. Her tenure at State was a transparent holding action, designed to bequeath her the foreign policy creed she destroyed by her whole hearted support of the plot to war. If not a ‘perfect storm’, this current dust-up is one that shouldn’t surprise people.
Kristine
@RedDirtGirl: I voted for PBO in ’08. I never really cared for HRC until these last few years. I believe some of her edges could’ve been filed down, and her mind changed about some matters.
As for Wall Street, given that my retirement is invested in stocks and bonds, I juggle the wish for certain of those SOBs to do hard time with the desire to be able to make decent investments that finance my life. Corporations need to be reined in. We need to get the money out of politics. I live in the grey.
J R in WV
All this would make more sense if Bernie Sanders was a member of the Democratic Party. He is not. So Fuq him (and all his current supporters) with a farm implement.
And all the reporters using Sanders and all the other Russian turncoats to attack the Democratic party should be tarred and feathered and run out of this nation on a fence rail, straight into the Mexican Sonoran desert early on a summer day.
Sanders is owned body and soul by Russia… since he was a young marxist.
The country is full of people who knowingly and unknowingly are working full time for Russian interests against this nation. I’m sick and tired of them using our freedoms to shiv us in the belly.
I hope I made myself clear on this issue. Thanks for your time and attention.
zhena gogolia
@J R in WV:
I’m with you.
debbie
No idea how reputable this source is, but they seem to detail just how wrong Brazile’s contentions are. Is it wrong to think the pre-publication fact-checking might have been a fail?
Kristine
@Corner Stone: Yup.
Uncle Ebeneezer
You know what woulda been nice…if the anointed leader of The Left from Montpelier had immediately said “No, the primary wasn’t rigged, I lost fair and square. Let’s get out the vote, take back congress and save Democracy.”
Betty Cracker
@RedDirtGirl: I used to like Sanders a lot. Lost a lot of respect for him last year, but I agree with many of his broad policy points. I suspect most of us do; we just disagree on how to arrive at them. I’m nuanced as all fucking hell these days. I think we all better be, or we’re sunk.
zhena gogolia
@Betty Cracker:
No nuance. You’re either with us or against us. And by “us,” I mean the people who are trying to save the country.
ThresherK
@RedDirtGirl: I was a writer for a two-bitm0 college newspaper. Some.of the shit routinely thrown at Hillary, from headlines, to wishy-washy “proof”, to the sub-atomic parsing of sentence fragments, would Have gotten me kicked off the paper.
The bulk.of Bernie people will look at any piece of shit and believe it, if it says what they want to hear. The right-wing.press knows where to.setup their three-card Monte tables for that crowd.. Then the Berniestashave this idea that people like Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren need.to be primaries for failing some purity test with one utterance plucked out of a haystack. Finally, their knowledge of how actual policy is enacted, and what polling numbers mean, leaves something to be desired
That is not how we get more Democrats and better Democrats.
JMG
@zhena gogolia: Sanders is on your side. Honest. But his ego gets in the way of being a team player, meaning, he’s a normal pol.
zhena gogolia
@JMG:
Nope. His performance at the DNC displayed loud and clear that he is not on my side. And nothing has changed.
Omnes Omnibus
@J R in WV:
That seems more than a bit extreme.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@JMG: Maybe not “massacred,” but Sanders-as-presidential-nominee was definitely a “high risk, high reward” thing, and my impression is that said loudmouths not only don’t acknowledge this at all but think Sanders would’ve been functionally invincible.
zhena gogolia
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
Some of us lived through the massacre of McGovern, whose bootlaces BS isn’t qualified to tie.
debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
It’s like he’s making the GOP’s argument for them.
Trentrunner
Just tweeted by Donna Brazile:
Brazile’s Bombshell Isn’t That Hillary Clinton Rigged the Race, But That the Democratic Party Blew It http://thebea.st/2zhRNAA?source=via … @thedailybeast
Corner Stone
I’ve seen this shitweasel on MSNBC recently. He has one of those faces that pre-prime you to want to punch him even before he says a word.
Roger Moore
@Elizabelle:
The only response is to be the one setting the terms at the beginning rather than the one reacting to them.
Mike in NC
Donna Brazile should have dropped off the face of the earth after the 2000 election. Female version of Bob Shrum.
Dolly Llama
The whole Democratic Party infighting is about as Inside Baseball as it gets for all but maybe 2% of the population. Trump trying to gin this up into anything that even his base will care about is sadly funny.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
at some point, early in 2016 as I recall, he came to believe he could win, and deserved to. That belief was contagious and then fed on itself among his followers. I’m sure there’s a medical analogy, or according to Stranger Things II, one from D&D. But it was the end of him as a positive force in politics. I don’t see how he or anyone can disarm his weaponized sanctimony
Trentrunner
@Trentrunner: Notice that Brazile’s wording doesn’t say Hillary didn’t rig the race. She says the bigger story is that the Dems lost the general.
That’s pretty fucking slimy, even for an insider pol.
SenyorDave
@zhena gogolia: Some of us lived through the massacre of McGovern, whose bootlaces BS isn’t qualified to tie.
McGovern was a WW2 hero, historian, a true public servant. Because he lost so badly to Nixon he constantly gets denigrated by both the right and the left. McGovern was truly a great American.
Corner Stone
@Dolly Llama: It will be hyped up and signal boosted by the Russian bots. It will then enter wingnut lore and be referenced in code phrases that only they understand.
Bernie supporters will assist them.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
no doubt, but what percentage of people in MI and PA were persuaded against voting for Clinton by even sillier stuff? This would just be bloggy gassing– balloon juice, if you like– if it hadn’t all blown up a week before the VA gov’s election.
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
He had a choice once it was obvious he wouldn’t get the nomination. He could gracefully step aside and support the candidate of the party he’d hoped to be part of, or he could persist with his overblown ego to undermine and undercut.
Betty Cracker
@zhena gogolia: I was using “nuance” in the sense that RedDirtGirl used it in #4, i.e., I have my preferences, but I’m willing to work with folks with whom I disagree as long as we have the same objective, i.e., eject Trump from the White House and Republicans from Congress. I think Sanders is a self-promoting gasbag who had done real harm, but I don’t think he’s a Russian plant bent on destroying American democracy. That’s what passes for “nuance” these days.
Elizabelle
@SenyorDave: Agreed, totally, re McGovern.
All this tumult makes me want to step away from politics. It’s so miserable, right now. By design of some, it would seem.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: It was after the Michigan (March 8) primary – I recall an NYT story in February about how Sanders’ success caught him mostly by surprise.
Trentrunner
WaPo, just now:
This is fine. This is all fine.
Elizabelle
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yes. I find this incredible. Plus, CNN monofocusing on TERROR! IN NEW YORK!, although perhaps that has abated.
Hunter Gathers
The country is burning, it’s open season on everyone who isn’t a white, straight, Christian male, but let’s argue over meaningless bullshit. The Democratic Party is the only organization that can stop Trump, but it would rather eat itself over a ginned up fight between the followers of a garbage politician from a state with 7 people in it and someone who will never run for office again.
maryQ
I used to be afraid to pick up the phone when Democratic organizations called because I knew if I did, I’d soon be reading off my credit card number to the tune of 50 bucks. Now I light a candle and put on some gospel music so that I can center myself for what I know will be an emotional phone call
Trentrunner
More from WaPo:
This, too, is fine. All fine. No worries. Nothing to see. Not a problem. FINE.
Another Scott
@zhena gogolia: Yup. St. Bernard was shocked, shocked that his voters didn’t believe him when he finally said they should vote for her. After all, she was so Corrupt™, and in the pocket of Wall Street™ and Millionaires and Billionaries™, how could they?!1!!
TheHill – Bernie endorses HRC:
Nice words, but he didn’t follow through. He did almost nothing to help down-ballot races. He was much more interested in trying to be king-maker and pump up his Our Revolution PAC, etc., etc.
Cheers,
Scott.
Eljai
I wanted to vote for Bernie in the primary, but Hillary kept hitting my knuckles with a ruler until I filled in the little oval for her.
JMG
@Trentrunner: Donna Brazile not having a very good weekend. And it’ll get worse.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Trentrunner: If memory serves NBC & MSNBC were the primary fuckers of that particular chicken.
Andrew Lack and Stephen Burke are truly neglected villains of the 2016 election.
germy
There’s been a gradual walkback over the past few days
Gator90
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
And when he later realized it wasn’t going to happen, he became angry and bitter, and those emotions have guided him ever since.
Roger Moore
@Betty Cracker:
My biggest worry about Sanders used to be that while I liked his policies, it was obvious he didn’t have the faintest idea of how to achieve them. Then it became clear that he was more than happy to burn the whole damn party down rather than accept defeat, and I’ve been angry with him ever since.
germy
Cheryl Rofer
@RedDirtGirl: I would like to see a more progressive Democratic Party, too. But that is not the issue right now. The issue right now is to save our country from the Trump destruction machine.
I think that we need to be working at many levels. We could rebuild the Democratic Party and tweak it toward greater progressivity while opposing the Trump destruction machine, but we can’t take the never-ending attacks against Clinton, nor the idolization of a candidate who refuses to ally with the Democratic Party unless it is for his benefit. If there is a way to constructive discussion, I would be happy to support it. The internal attacks have to stop. Clinton won the candidacy. She lost the election. Let’s move on.
And, Betty:
Emphasis mine.
I will continue to do my thing to try to suss out what the Russians did. It’s clear at this point that they had/have both fellow travelers and useful idiots. We need to have a better idea of who they are and how social media recruited them.
Steve in the ATL
@Betty Cracker:
Wilmer has no fucking clue how to arrive at them, as he proved repeatedly during his campaign. Which is a shame because many of them are great, as you noted.
tobie
The only reason this story has legs is because it is (or has been made into) a story about HRC, whom people love to hate. The parcing of every punctuation mark in what even former DNC chair Howard Dean said is a boilerplate agreement between the party and its candidates is truly astonishing. Bernie destroyed the party in refusing to concede when it was clear he had no chance of overtaking Hillary’s pledged delegate lead. He broke the opposition (to fascism, no less) when it’s most needed. This is his legacy. Unfortunately we’re living the consequences.
Nicole
@Trentrunner: I swear to God, I want to tweet at Brazile and ask her how many rubles she got paid this week.
Elizabelle
For anyone who didn’t see yesterday’s epic thread:
Trentrunner is a bomb thrower here to tear us apart.
Be forewarned, and do not take the bait. I see that most of you are not.
Thoughtful David
@RedDirtGirl:
So, a lot of us who are involved with the Democratic Party would also like to see a more lefty party. If you really want to see it too, get involved. Join the local Democratic Committee and work. Help arrange the porta-potties for rallies, make table decorations for fund raisers, clean the campaign office, make calls, knock on doors. Believe it or not, invest yourself, and you will discover that people will listen to you and you can get the issues you want brought forward.
I’m not speaking directly to you, RDG, but people in general: I can guarantee that the next president, and the next governor, will be either a Democrat or a Republican. So there’s your choice. Anything you do that does not help Democrats, helps Republicans. So you have to vote for Democrats and it helps to work for them. And if you work for them, you can help push them to the left. If you don’t engage, you can’t make changes.
germy
Ridnik Chrome
@RedDirtGirl: I’m one of the few commenters on this blog who will give the Bernistas the time of day. I agree with them (sort of) that the Democrats concede far too much ground to the Republicans, particularly on economic issues. I was pretty damned angry at Bill Clinton for “welfare reform” and not sticking up for Lani Guinier and Jocelyn Elders, but I voted for Hillary twice for senator, and for president last year. I liked Sanders’ message, but thought he was the wrong person to sell it, and also thought Hillary stood a better chance of getting things passed.
ETA: I’m also very much not down with folks like TR. “Heightening the contradictions” never works.
maryQ
@germy: We have got to focus on the bread and butter issues that mean so much to ordinary Americans.
Trentrunner
@Elizabelle: LOL. Truth bombs, you mean.
Fair Economist
@Trentrunner:
What’s really rich is that the acting DNC chair during the general was… Donna Brazile!!!
So she’s basically saying *not only* did she herself blow it by mixing up 2016 and 2015 contracts, she blew it by mismanaging the general.
Why exactly are we listening to her?
Cheryl Rofer
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the
fellow travelersuseful idiots!different-church-lady
Once they are fed, you cannot un-feed the Orcs. That kibble is inside them forever.
BlueDWarrior
@Fair Economist: Because the media must promote the “Democrats are in disarray” narrative at all times, regardless of any extant facts on the ground.
Fair Economist
@Ridnik Chrome:
I think this is pretty much the default position on this blog, and among thinking lefties in general.
different-church-lady
@Cheryl Rofer: When he gets his teeth kicked down his throat in 2020, I wonder what his excuse will be.
germy
source
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
I haven’t asked my husband what he thinks of this story because if I did, the first thing he’d say is “Who’s Donna Brazile?”
The person I’m ticked at is Elizabeth Warren. She made this worse.
Roger Moore
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
Except he didn’t have a clue about how he was going to implement any of the great programs he was proposing, so the chances were against ever getting any of that stuff. That made him a high risk, low reward thing, and I’m not going to go for that.
Steeplejack
@Corner Stone:
I was pretty amazed too. I had it on in the background and actually turned around to watch. Where is this incisive, strongly opinionated, no-fucks-to-give Tweety on weeknights?
My only complaint is that he beat his drum a little about the neglected white working class, but he strongly reamed both parties for not offering them much to respond to.
Fair Economist
@Cheryl Rofer:
I expect it to be similar quality to his health care plan, which included (among much other dysfunction) saving more on prescription drugs than the total national spending on prescription drugs.
different-church-lady
@Elizabelle:
d58826
@Trentrunner: @Nicole: I just saw that comment and IO’m undecided if she is
1. a Russian bot
2. she has been replaced by an alien body snatcher
3. she is angling for a job with Der Fuhrer.
DB was already digging the grave before she even knew what Hillary’s medical status was.
But just for the sake of the argument, if Hillary had to do out fore reasons of health it seems to me that the logical replacement, would have been Bernie. Biden hadn’t been in the primary and Bernie was the runner up.
germy
o…kay…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Krystal Ball was on MSNBC this morning, and somehow dragged Wilmer into a discussion of VA. The collective eye-roll from the other panelists shook my TV. from what I saw of her before she caught the Fever, she was a pretty garden variety Democrat. Now she’s a true believer.
Elizabelle
Top of the WaPost right now:
Le sigh. You know, it’s good to know who are your friends, and who has your back. Can be painful, but it’s ultimately illuminating.
different-church-lady
@germy: Shorter: she’s an idiot.
Trentrunner
WaPo:
Still fine. Awesomely fine. Tremendous fineness.
Elizabelle
@different-church-lady: Squirrel is right. LOL.
Aimai
@RedDirtGirl: I think the concept of nuance is odd here. I wanted a great president for the country as it exists in this universe, in this reality, with these problems and potentials. The idea that I would regret HRC because she wasn’t good enough—not gandhi enough or not bernie enough is bizarre to me. she would have been great. Frankly, like Barack, she would have been better than we deserve.
NotMax
I know, Mr. Kotter, call on me!
Kickstarter. Raise enough to re-hold all the primaries, again and again if necessary, until a result everyone likes happens.
Gotta know when to hold ’em, know when to fold ’em, know when to say f*ck this noise.
different-church-lady
@d58826:
What I want to know is who on the Dem side leaked the pneumonia to Trump’s camp? Because he was thumping the “SHE’S NEAR DEATH” drum pretty hard the week before.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: His promises were empty because his math didn’t add up. BS is the benevolent leftist version of the current President. You can have everything without giving up nothing.
ETA: BS should never have been allowed to run as Democrat.
Mr Stagger Lee
It looks like Steve Bannon and his Merry Russian Bots has been here and is still priming the pump, with some of you sh*theads. What part of
you don’t get?
Jess
“Wonderful things happen when you sow the seeds of distrust in a garden of assholes.”
charon
“WashPo story”
Above the fold at Washington Post.
Read the story, Brazile looks to be doing her best to attack HRC on multiple assertions.
Also attacking DNC people and Clinton staffers like Mook etc.
different-church-lady
@Corner Stone:
Other people’s stink sells books.
schrodingers_cat
@Aimai: Gandhi is vilified in Modi’s India of today.
Corner Stone
So Donna Brazile has lost her GOD DAMNED MIND.
tobie
@Elizabelle: does she really think the Clintoncampaign would not have gotten word of her efforts in Sep 2016 to replace her as the party nominee? And yet she’s pissed that in Oct she wasn’t given a front row seat at a debate? The mind boggles. This is a vicious book.
maryQ
@schrodingers_cat: “BS is the benevolent leftist version of the current President” Yes, exactly. Though I don’t think he terribly benevolent, and he is also something of a grifter. But his beliefs are in the view of all decent people diametrically opposed to Donald Trump’s beliefs. The problem is that while I think he is genuinely appalled by Trump’s beliefs, he probably secretly admires his tactics.
Cheryl Rofer
Isn’t it odd that these big Democratic blowups seem to come just before critical elections? Ed Gillespie has been coming up in the Virginia polls the last few days, and he is now about even with Ralph Northam.
Just a coincidence, I’m sure.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Corner Stone: She’s 57. Maybe she shorted her whole portfolio last November. I know I was tempted.
germy
After reading the WaPo article, the feeling I’m left with is DB’s book has a lot to do with personal score settling.
So often I feel the personal grudges of people I’ve never met end up harming me and my family, because those people enable republican maniacs to win.
Fair Economist
@Elizabelle:
OMG, Brazile thought she’d been appointed Queen, with the power to choose a Governor General! As many noted at the time, and in this thread, Bernie would have been the only plausible replacement for Hillary. And on what grounds would Brazile be replacing Kaine?
schrodingers_cat
@maryQ: Benevolent compared to the President. BS knows how to play grievance politics all too well. Some of the grievances he targets are slightly different than the ones the current R president does, that’s all.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Roger Moore: Not on a policy front – I suspect with Sanders as president he’d have functioned mostly as a generic Democrat – but with regards to ideology; the election results would either result in further acceptance of social democracy or McGovern 2.0: Everything Dies.
different-church-lady
@germy:
Hell, I didn’t have to read the WaPo article to know that.
Elizabelle
The end of the Exclusive!!! WaPost excerpt:
Brandon might have him a future. Oh, and back to the candidate:
Ridnik Chrome
@Fair Economist: Maybe I’m being unfair, but I’ve gotten shit for expressing even mild, qualified agreement with the Sanders folks.
burnspbesq
@JMG:
You have a great deal of faith in Bernie’s supporters, and I’m trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I am just not seeing a plausible basis for that faith.
germy
@schrodingers_cat:
Nader ran as a Green and did damage. BS could have, also.
Chyron HR
@germy:
LIKE THAT COULD EVER HAPPEN.
Amir Khalid
It’s clear from the NBC story that there was no fix by the Hillary campaign. If there were, how come Bernie’s campaign was able to sign its own similar agreement with the DNC?
There’s some moron upthread claiming that Hillary was Secretary of State just to get a new foreign-policy ticket punched, after she tore up the old one by voting for the Iraq war. She didn’t appoint herself, the President appointed her. Whatever her reasons for taking the job, she did restore morale and effectiveness to a State Department that for the previous eight years had been unwisely shunted aside by the W administration.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy:
“They think I’m crazy and stupid? I”ll show them some crazy and stupid!”
Corner Stone
This has gone beyond 11 on the dial straight to GOD DAMNED RIDICULOUS.
Barbara
There is a reason it’s called 15 minutes of fame. But for many people, reliving that 15 minutes becomes their reason for being. I can’t decide whether Jeff Weaver or Donna Brazile is more pathetic. On the one hand, I can kind of see Jeff Weaver realizing that NO ONE EVER AGAIN is going to hire him for anything important, and going back to your job of running a comic book store will never really again be the same. So rerunning the Sanders campaign over and over and over again is pretty much your only choice. But Brazile. Well, I do feel confident that the number of people who would consider hiring her is diminishing daily, but her book makes her not much better than a vulture feasting on something that is still alive. Having nothing to offer anyone in the way of real sustenance, she has decided to keep herself alive by resorting to cannibalism. “Hating on Hillary” sells and Brazile needs to sell. I used to respect Brazile.
Emerald
@JMG:
“They’d just as soon the Dems lose every election until they’re in charge and act accordingly.”
The fringe Left, since at least the 1930s, has seen as their main enemy the Democratic party. It is for the reason you say: we won’t let them run things. They aren’t politically savvy enough to take over on their own, so they whine and attack the party non-stop. The practical results of their strategy, that Republicans win and then use their power to harm vulnerable people and to steal as much money as they can, is of no concern to the fringe Left. Never has been. They care about nothing except their own superiority.
Sanders is and has always been one of them. It’s why he ran. It’s the most successful attack of the fringe Left since the Bolsheviks took over the Russian Revolution.
The Democrats have to purge these people from the party. Regular Bernie fans are fine–they’re not the angry die-hards. But we have to get rid of the fringe.
The Republicans let their fringe take over their party and look at the nation now.
Elizabelle
@Fair Economist: I know. I’d love to be a fly on the wall in the Kaine household when he heard about that one. I would bet he laughed, hard.
Replace Hillary because she’s at death’s door (not). And then throw Tim off the ship too? LOL.
Corner Stone
What a timely thread our own b Crack has provided for us all.
J R in WV
@Omnes Omnibus:
Perhaps so, but why else is he trying to destroy the Democratic Party, when it is all that stands between American Democracy and the fascist corporatist Republican Nazi Party? He needs to wake up and smell the smoke before it’s too late…
different-church-lady
@Elizabelle: Holy goddamned mother of…. DONNA, GROW THE FUCK UP, THIS ISN’T FUCKIN’ JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL!!
Tom Q
@Elizabelle: The “anemic” campaign that had her 6-12 points up in polls till the Comey letter.
You now have to seriously consider the possibility Brazile is angling for a job as Fox News Democrat.
Chyron HR
@germy:
We already had a Green party candidate doing damage in 2016. “Bernie was robbed” was EXTRA damage. And note that even though Kerry lost in 2004, he didn’t have “the Nadercrats” relentlessly attacking from his left flank.
Calouste
@maryQ: The shitgibbon believes in the shitgibbon, Wilmer believes in Wilmer. I don’t see what there is diametrically opposed about that.
schrodingers_cat
@germy: BS running as a D has been even worse, I would argue.
Corner Stone
So, any D politician that hires or associates themselves with Donna Brazile should be made to understand their elected career is over.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Watching some B- C-list Republican operative act shocked and appalled by these important, earth-shattering revelations! McConnell and Ryan ought to present Brazile with some kind of employee of the month award, and it’s only the fourth.
Elizabelle
@Tom Q: Only people she’ll have any credibility with.
trollhattan
@Amir Khalid:
They might could look at what Obama did in choosing Clinton as SoS and think, “Is that how adults clear the air and forge a mutually beneficial working relationship?” Orrrr….
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: His actions since he ran in the primaries point to him play for the Putin team. He is busy weakening the only source of political opposition to the Rs.
Amir Khalid
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
I suspect Bernie’s lack of preparation for the job and poor people skills, particularly with other politicians, would have stood in the way of getting things done.
Seanly
In 2008, I was mad about how Hillary seemed to hang in the primary too long. It rubbed me the wrong way. In 2016, I got mad at the Bernie for hanging in there too long. If Clinton stayed a little longer than she should have, Sanders pushed way past when he should have dropped out. I was never that big a fan of his although I agreed with his take on a couple of positions more than I did with Clinton’s take.
The paranoid in me wonders now if Sanders (and some of this ongoing BS) is a part of Russian interference – keep the Democratic party infighting and looking just as corrupt as Trump & GOP. After all, if the D’s are just as bad as the R’s why change course?
Fair Economist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Brazile’s book shows the Clinton campaign’s judgement was pretty good about her.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Whoever this Brandon person is, my estimation of him just skyrocketed.
Omnes Omnibus
@J R in WV:
Ego? True belief?
Marguerite Hill
@J R in WV:
Could not AGREE MORE! 100%!!! Have no use for Bernie & no desire to have my voice, interests & concerns further diminished. Bernie, Tad Devine, Jeff Weaver, Nina Turner & Cornel West can all move to Siberia Sunday!
Cheryl Rofer
@J R in WV:
My explanation for this, and objection to Wilmer since early on, is that he is a typical early-sixties leftist white male. He is entitled to run things. His ideas are the best ideas. Shut up, you kids.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: Since he was a young Marxist?
Major Major Major Major
So this week I learned that Donna Brazile is an idiot. Good to know. Another one for the “idiots to ignore” bin. I mean, the other possibility is she doesn’t believe this stuff and is tearing the party apart for personal gain right before a major agenda-and-narrative-setting election, in which case she is a different kind of idiot, also for ignoring.
Fair Economist
@Seanly:
Both were in the wrong. In addition, in both cases, Republican ratfuckers were critical in keeping it close enough for it to be plausible they continue. Hillary’s actions in 2008 backfired on her in 2016 when a lot of people were still (understandably) pissed about it – an example of lying down with dogs getting you fleas. I expect Bernie will pay a price for it in the future as well if he runs agains.
different-church-lady
@Trentrunner: Because replacing the candidate at the last minute ALWAYS works!
d58826
@germy: This is true but Nader has kind of disappeared into the mists of history. Bernie and his supporters are still a ‘gift’ that keeps on giving. Nader didn’t blow up the party like Bernie is. Not that the party needs a Bernie to self-destruct (see Will Rogers).
Calouste
@Cheryl Rofer: The last three are pretty much why he is running as an independent.
If he was in a party, he might actually get pushback. From women and non-whites even.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: That I don’t know, I have not studied his career to that extent. But he certainly has had pro Communist sympathies since an early age from what I have read.
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack: That was kind of what caught me. He had some actual insight that informed his opinions. He wasn’t just there to harass someone on some thing he had no opinion on. He was into the conversation and unloading. I honestly don’t know why he doesn’t do that more on his show – except maybe he’d have more trouble booking a few liars.
debbie
@J R in WV:
It seems to me that he’s thinks he’s saving it.
Ridnik Chrome
@Cheryl Rofer:
Vanguardism. It’s a trap a lot of lefties fall into, not just the white dudes (though they do seem particularly susceptible to it). And it existed long before the appearance of the New Left.
Gin & Tonic
@Omnes Omnibus: I think JR’s opinion fits the observed facts better.
SatanicPanic
Donna Brazille is the new Dick Morris
Boatboy_srq
@RedDirtGirl: I was unimpressed with HRC’s libprog chops until I saw what momentum could do. Inertia kept her midstream until the weight of libprog efforts began to pull -and when thr movement began she swung WAY left of where I ecpected (and where sheer machine-politics humor-the-lefties attitudes would have left her).
That said. HRC did not win me so much as Sanders lost me bigtime with his purity tests for downballot candidates. If you expect to create change then you have to ensure you have allies, and Sanders had no interest in allies in Congress – which in a year when the GOTea sorely needed to be pushed back was the pinnacle of unhelpful.
Omnes Omnibus
@Gin & Tonic: Sorry, I don’t buy the life-long sleeper agent angle.
d58826
@schrodingers_cat: The GOP would have torn him to pieces for his love affair with Castro, the Sandinistas and the Iranians who took over the embassy. Rather than ‘crooked Hillary’ it would have been ‘Socialist Sanders’. Jane and her financially challenged life style would not have been needed.
@Seanly:
I don’t know if Sanders or his campaign were directly involved but it seems pretty clear that the Russian effort included stoking the BernieBro grieves both during the primary season and the general election. Anything that depressed democratic turnout or pushed Bernie votes to Stein/Johnson was a win for the GOP.
schrodingers_cat
@debbie: He is saving nothing, he is sabotaging D chances in 2018.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Boatboy_srq: Pretty much.
different-church-lady
@Boatboy_srq:
Hmmm… sounds familiar somehow…
d58826
help comment in moderation
Barbara
@Ridnik Chrome: The worst are full of passionate intensity . . .
When I listen to Sanders, I wonder if he actually realizes what country he lives in. I have a lot of frustration at many things that I think could be done better, or even are done better elsewhere, but I have enough sense of reality to know that people — a lot of people even — actually disagree with me. The obvious issue is gun ownership, but there are others. It’s as if Sanders can’t imagine that people actually disagree with him. Many anti-choice activists are this way as well. They think that most people agree with them that abortion is wrong (not helped by Democrats who say things like every abortion is a tragedy) and so think that if they just keep shouting loud enough people will relent and join them. This makes them extra annoying.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: You know that. I know that. debbie knows that. But does Bernie?
trollhattan
@Corner Stone:
Early nominee for 2018 new year’s resolution list: “More frequent obvious eyerolling.”
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@Cheryl Rofer: Someone over at LGM got an email from Nina Turner (Our Revolution) fundraising off this so, I’m guessing Magic GrandPa is not going to defuse this.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
Off topic, but David Daley has a lot to answer for.
Amaranthine RBG
This all may be a bit unpleasant but its necessary.
Any candidate and party that can’t win against Donald Trump is, quite obviously, broken and ineffective.
It’s good to see that at least some in the democrat structure are working to reach out to the entire constituency and rebuild the party.
Since Clinton isn’t going to run in 2020, I don’t see any reason to (further) destroy her, nor much reason to waste time defending her.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Why would Putin pay for Bernie’s cow when that particular milk is given to each idiot according to his usefulness?
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: He either doesn’t know or doesn’t care. I am surrounded by BS bros and sisters. They can be quite tiresome IRL, too
Cheryl Rofer
@d58826: Released.
Betty Cracker
@Fair Economist: Bingo. I was genuinely torn between voting for Sanders or Clinton in the FL primary until pretty close to the date. I can’t imagine voting for Sanders in the 2020 primary, if he runs. I halfway hope he does and gets squashed like a bug.
Corner Stone
I like how a woman trying to power through it while not feeling well makes her weak and replaceable. Where as a man would be lauded for gutting it out.
And this coming from a woman hypster is just disgusting.
RedDirtGirl
Thanks to so many of you for chiming in in response to my comment. I’ve been wanting to ask my question for a while now.
uabbles is more imprtant than Russian interference in the election.
@Fair Economist: Der Fuhrer claims that the Russian interference is fake news. To many on the democratic side seem to feel that re-fighting the 2016 intra-party squabbles is more important than the issue of Russian interference. At this rate I suspect we will see Putin beginning to attend church on a regular basis. After all there must be a god to have granted him every last one of his wishes by a factor of infinity.
Marguerite Hill
@Corner Stone:
Donna is either:
1. Seriously mentally ill & totally detached from reality
2. In the midst of a genuine nervous breakdown from being fired by CNN
3. Still nonsensically angry at the Clintons because SHE decided to distance Al Gore from Bill & Hillary in 2000
4. Kidnapped & unable to access her own Twitter account which has been hacked by Russian bots
5. A Russian tool herself which would explain her managerial choices in 2000 as well as her most asinine statements on This Week with George Stephanopoulos
6. Broke & desperate, simple trying to make money any way she can
7. Extorted by GOP/Bernie/Putin because compromising pictures/videos would destroy her life, stature & reputation (destroyed now anyway)
D58826
and another one in moderation because I screwed up the name field (sigh)
Amir Khalid
@Omnes Omnibus:
Bernie might know, I guess. But he wouldn’t care if he did. The Democratic party was never anything more to him than a flag of convenience.
Omnes Omnibus
@Marguerite Hill: I vote for a 3 & 6 combo.
charon
@Amaranthine RBG:
She must be defended to defuse the damage Brazile and Wilmer and Warren are causing.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Betty Cracker: This is basically what I felt at the time. What helped push me over the edge was that Daley’s Salon, which I frequented, was deep in its descent into derp oblivion* (that, and the “high risk, small net reward” thing mentioned earlier).
*H/t Joan Walsh.
different-church-lady
@Amaranthine RBG:
Destroying Clinton is much like tax cuts: it’s ALWAYS the right answer!
Major Major Major Major
@Cheryl Rofer:
Ding ding ding ding ding
Except ‘kids’ is more or less the set of ‘people not named Bernie Sanders’
@Marguerite Hill: 2, 3, 6
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Omnes Omnibus: 3, 6, and quite possibly 4.
different-church-lady
@Marguerite Hill: 8: feeling seriously jilted.
Applejinx
@Fair Economist: Neither can possibly run again. Bernie was already too old and has been totally blamed for Clinton’s failings, so he can’t run again (he lost with people being TOLERANT of his run, no chance of getting that type of tolerance again), and Clinton is blamed for blowing what should have been a slam-dunk due to her own arrogance and bad politics.
Looks like Clinton was fully intending to run again and stay in control of the Democratic Party from top to bottom, except that establishment Dems are done with that. She was also too old, she was completely implausible as far as helping normal people’s material conditions (a basic challenge for the Left: first you have to feed and shelter people or they can’t even pay attention), and we wouldn’t be seeing either Brazile or Warren behaving this way if they didn’t represent a majority of Democrats in DC who want to see neither Sanders nor Clinton in control of the Democratic Party.
Pretty easy to not have Sanders in charge when he’s not a Democrat, he caucuses with Democrats.
VERY HARD not to have Clinton in charge when she owns the party and paid for it, but that’s why you see Brazile and Warren revealing the extent to which Clinton ran the show and ran the party into a ditch. This is a bid for basic relevance for the Democratic Party. I think it has some chance of succeeding.
People only flip out over the ‘surprise Clinton was the puppetmaster running the Dems’ if they (sincerely or disingenuously or Cyrillically) think Clinton WASN’T doing just exactly that the whole time, with no consideration of anything but her own advancement. I mistrust all the people who paint her as some saintly figure: that’s not what I saw, and all these ‘revelations’ change nothing as far as I’m concerned. In some ways they are encouraging signs of a Democratic Party that maybe wants an identity beyond the Clintons, and maybe doesn’t want to be completely tarred with the Third Way ideology when that’s a boat-anchor in the current economic and political climate.
First they have to reveal in ‘shock’ and ‘surprise’ that Clinton was running the whole show and providing the money, and pretend they weren’t absolutely complicit. And this is what we’re seeing. If it stops happening or is covered up, that means Clinton is still able to stop it, and that she is running again (and this time, the Left will not be persuaded to vote for her, plus she’ll be even more too old than before, and it’ll be even more obviously an ego move).
Amir Khalid
@Amaranthine RBG:
Methinks this is what people call a “tell”.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@charon: Well not even that so much as this is more of the, “Democrats are corrupt and as bad as the Republicans”, which many people now believe. Bernie weaponized this line of attack and the Democrats are being attacked from two sides overtly, Republicans, “the Left” and by the media because “both sides.”
Chyron HR
@Applejinx:
Dude, it’s over. She’s been vanquished forever. It’s a shame the country had to die along with her political ambitions, but omelettes and eggs, right?
Omnes Omnibus
@Applejinx: You continue to be a loony.
Corner Stone
@Marguerite Hill: Well, since she was at the heart of one of the greatest D presidential campaign defeats and at least some role in another one, I have to at least hope she is broke and desperate by now.
The excerpts the WaPo are putting out, if accurate, lead me to also strongly consider the mentally ill aspect. She cray.
Barbara
@RedDirtGirl: I genuinely liked Clinton, voted for PBO in 2008, and understand that she has and had flaws. I never thought of Sanders much at all, but in general, think it would be great if more senators were more reliably and reflexively liberal in temperament the way he is. As with any goal, you need to figure out when you can move forward and when the best you can do is fight to stay where you are. I think Sanders understands this well enough in the way he votes as a Senator. He would never vote to repeal the ACA, for instance, even though he is highly critical of it. However, I don’t think he seems to understand that this goes for the Democratic Party as well, so his willingness to destroy things in the hope of something better makes it less likely that the something better will prevail electorally when it has the chance. It also angers me when anyone stands outside or above the fray and takes potshots at an organization they are unwilling to join. Until he joins, there is no reason for Democrats to listen to him.
Major Major Major Major
Lots of pie today! Now I want pie.
schrodingers_cat
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Both sides do it but Ds are worse, has been the MSM mantra for a long time
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@Applejinx: Oh get over yourself.
Ruckus
@RedDirtGirl:
I think you are spot on. HRC was a great candidate. I believe she would have made a good/great president. Wilmer was and is a 1/4 mile wide and paper thin deep. He had one good idea and zero concept of how to do anything with it, and would not accept any other ideas, even if they helped his one idea. So for an office that requires political insight, political maneuvering, political give and take, intelligence, experience, she was/is far superior. And Wilmer was/is far superior to the festering pustule we have now.
All that said, would I like a more progressive candidate than HRC? Sure, why not? Who do you have in mind? I haven’t seen one on the horizon yet.
PsiFighter37
So stupid. Just so stupid that we are fighting about this one whole FUCKING YEAR after the election. Fuck Donna Brazile for being a perennial loser and sucking at her job. If there is one thing I blame the Clintons for, it is the fact that Bill elevated a shitload of people who gave really bad political advice in the 1990s a continuing platform to fuck things up.
Good God Democrats are stupid sometimes. The media is even worse on this matter, as usual.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: Did you actually read all that?
marcopolo
@JMG: Let’s be honest: Bernie is on Bernie’s side. Brazille is on Brazille’s side and, frankly, Hillary is on Hillary’s side. Generally speaking, in regards to folks playing in the political sphere that is something to always always keep in mind, especially when reflecting on their actions. And it is not necessarily a crime or even a terrible fault depending on the relationship their self-promotion has to factual reality and our general welfare. As far as I can tell, Brazille has put herself above all that in order to get her book publicity and in the pursuit of filthy lucre. Everything I have seen (and yeah I pay a lot more attention than regular folks) is that the Clinton campaign did what they could within guidelines to look after their interests. And to the poster who complains about Hillary “sucking the oxygen out of the room in the D party since Bill was prez,” for fuks sake, that is what a good any politician does to position themselves to win elections. As far as I can tell, Clinton aside from working her ass off in whatever position she has ever found herself (for whatever reason the decided to take on being Secretary of State she took the job seriously, did her homework, and did a good job), has kept in mind the general welfare of others no matter what happened to her: example, what she did after her very tough loss to Obama in 2008. She pushed her disappointment aside, got on the train, and worked hard for him to win the general–including reaching out to her supporters. Compare that to Sanders actions after this last election; Sanders, who I probably agree with as much or more than Clinton in terms of policy, acted like a sulky teenager. Anyway, that’s how I figure out who I can respect and who gets my support and in this case it ain’t Brazille and until Bernie gets over his ego and whatever else it is that keeps him playing purity politics it ain’t him neither. And don’t get me started on the DFA, which I was once a member of, folks & the VA Governor’s election.
Barbara
@Marguerite Hill: Brazile has always been something of an opportunist and showboat. I suspect she needs the money and, extremely sad to me, thinks that she should join the shitting on Hillary for profit brigade — this time, from the Democratic side of the aisle. I am certainly not going to buy her book.
opiejeanne
@schrodingers_cat: That was my exact take on Wilmer.
Also, what was the fascination with a shouty old man who didn’t even come across as a nice grandpa?
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: Skimmed it just to confirm it was the usual stuff.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Barbara: his record indicates that he understands compromise and incrementalism, but his rhetoric and persona have created a large, and young, cohort who conflate those two things with corruption, and believe the real enemy is something called “the Democratic Establishment”, which they conflate with something called “the DNC”.
PsiFighter37
Oh – and Brazile saying she considered replacing Clinton with Biden? Total fucking bullshit. THAT would have destroyed the party beyond repair.
Ruckus
@J R in WV:
You did.
And I agree with you.
Gin & Tonic
@Omnes Omnibus: Fellow traveler, not sleeper.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
OMG we are going to have the same conversation forever. It’s tedious and worse than that, it’s wasteful of our time, energy, and communal feeling.
Pie, pie, pie.
Elizabelle
@Amir Khalid: Yeah, I noticed that too. Interesting.
Major Major Major Major
@PsiFighter37: And talk about rigging the primary–replacing the nominee by fiat!
germy
The most amusing part of the excerpts I’ve read is when DB takes over from Debbie Wasserman, and is appalled by the bright pink walls in her office and all the perks she gave herself (high paid consultants, big vehicle, etc)
Amaranthine RBG
@Amir Khalid:
Nah, that is just a sad little shibboleth employed by some people who live for the narcissism of small differences.
Feathers
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: This reminds me of a discussion about is it verbal abuse to tell someone they are saying dumbass shit, when they truly are saying some dumbass shit. (This involved a friend and his dippy anti-vaxxer wife. She was claiming his emotional abuse made his arguments invalid. We all thought he was a saint for putting up with her.)
JMG
Brazile’s book, hell just the published excerpts, will destroy her, not anyone or anything else. Along with that Biden story, which someone on twitter accurately described as “some real Marshall of the Supreme Court shit” she discusses how she’d draw the blinds and move the desk in her DNC office after the Seth Rich murder ’cause she thought she’d be next. Whatever she once was, she’s now a certified whack job.
Ruckus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
And worse, no one is even trying, especially not him.
sukabi
@Elizabelle: Ms. Brazille seems to have an over inflated sense of herself…and a particular dislike for Hillary…
Gin & Tonic
@SatanicPanic: Donna’s a toe sucker?
Bonnie
My only comment has always been: Bernie has been a Senator since 1979; and, what has he done in all that time as a Senator? I cannot think of anything.
charon
@Corner Stone:
Cray??
Maybe just a sociopath and an opportunist.
Citizen Alan
@germy:
If Bernie had been a Green, his flying monkeys would not have been permitted to disrupt the convention the way they did. And his idiotic complaints about her would have been dismissed as more rantings from the Green Party candidate instead of the second-place Democratic candidate. I am somewhat embarrassed at myself because after the Nader fiasco I said repeatedly that it would have been better for Ralph Nader to run as a Democrat and try to shift the party to the left from the inside instead of undermine it as a third-party candidate. Apparently it was a failure of the imagination on my part to not foresee that Nader could have screwed the party over even worse if he had run as a Democrat.
Mnemosyne
@tobie:
I’m curious to know if the “being seated out of sight at the debate” thing was before or after the whole kerfuffle about Brazile admitting that she emailed Hillary to tell her that there would probably be a question about the Flint water crisis at the debate in Flint, MI.
If it was after, why the fuck would Brazile expect a front-row seat?
Steeplejack
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
“Weaponized sanctimony”: well put.
Applejinx
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: I’m starting to wonder if I get pile-ons from rooskies when I get too close to evaluations with the following characteristics:
-potentially elevating some sort of Democratic politician less vulnerable than Sanders or Clinton
-undermining the elevation of an fatally flawed candidate
-suggesting the Democratic Party isn’t doomed
-suggesting the Democratic Party can try to improve voters’ material conditions and get a populist groundswell
Somebody would rather see the Democratic Party die chained to the boat-anchor that is neoliberal politics, and is prepared to talk a lot of crap about it all being personalities and hero-worship and racism and sexism rather than even BEGIN to see Democrats start talking populist.
I think that’s because if Republicans talk populist, they’re lying. And if Democrats talk populist, they run the country for decades because they’re not lying, and it takes generations of Republicans to tear down what the Democrats built. And it’s a winning strategy EVEN if it’s lies: Trump claimed coal jobs were coming back. He claimed any damn thing he wanted, and Democrats insisted jobs weren’t coming back and people had to hit the road and government wouldn’t help and no redistribution (i.e. tax and spend) would take place. WTF did you think was going to happen?
Major Major Major Major
@Bonnie: Congressman. He’s relatively new to the senate.
germy
The unnecessary scandal, when DB told HRC “Listen, don’t tell anybody I’m telling you this, but be prepared! The debate in Michigan? You’ll be getting some questions about the water!”
The only thing she accomplished with that was allowing a million opponents to point at HRC and scream “Cheater!”
Chyron HR
@PsiFighter37:
Yeah, but how could Donna and Liz have possibly known that shouting “The primary was rigged and Clinton was behind it all, the rest of us are blameless” would not, in fact, cause the Berniecrats to stop blaming the entire Democratic party for their primary loss?
LongHairedWeirdo
Remember that the GOParty-of-hatred will be glad to push this for all its worth too, and to pretend to be wounded BernieBros or whatever the current term is. They want to so dissension, try to catch or impede the news cycle, and, most importantly…
pause here, a moment for emphasis…
most importantly, make people feel that this is too much trouble, too much bother, too much chaos, time to stop trying, and time to give up hope.
That’s the point of Hillary and Uranium One. That’s the point of saying that hiring someone, who hires someone else, who hires someone else, to talk to people to learn what the Kremlin is doing is the *real* collusion and trying to set up a back channel away from US oversight with the Russians is just SOP. And that’s the point of any of their astroturfing of the DNC story.
I’m not saying ignore it, I’m not saying “don’t worry about potentially deep divisions”, I’m not saying don’t worry about intra-party conflict – but I am saying “remember the Republicans want you to feel beaten down, and know how to make conflicts seem worse than they are.”
James E. Powell
@JMG:
Is she stupid enough to believe that the people promoting her story are her friends? That they like her? That they will still acknowledge her existence once this story runs its course?
Fair Economist
@Applejinx:
This is all true, but I’m not sure that’s going to stop Bernie from running. Unlike Clinton, he’s not ruled out a run. There are also a lot of BernieBros still pushing for a 2020 run, although it’s not clear to what extent they’re genuine and to what extent they are the Russian trolls we know were hyping Bernie in 2016.
Major Major Major Major
CNN alert sez Yemen’s air force shot a missile at an airport in Riyadh, which was intercepted.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@Citizen Alan: Actually if Bernie had run 3rd party we could have least quantified his support, and damage. Now it’s all just guessing.
Mnemosyne
@Amaranthine RBG:
And the maskirova slips.
Steeplejack
@maryQ:
LOL!
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne: That emailing the question about the Flint water crisis always struck me as overkill. Like there was NOT going to be a question, since it was a huge local issue, or that HRC would not have worked it into an answer on another topic … It’s like holding a debate on a Naval base and never addressing anything military. Nothing. No sirreee. Of no interest to the audience …
bystander
Just wondering if this crossed Donna’s mind before or after Hillary hijacked the DNC and rigged everything against Sanders.
D58826
And back in the real world
But by all means democrats lets continue fight over the 2016 primary season.
We all are having a good laugh at the many stupid things Der Fuhrer says and does. The problem is the fascists he has put in charge of the various agencies are destroying 100+ years of progress in everything from labor rights, racial and gay equality, the environment, etc. HIS right wing judicial nominees will return us to the Lochner era whee the only people with constitutional rights are the 1%. The Lochner era SCOTUS struck down progressive legislation passed at both the state and federal level.
But lets worry about the state of Bernie’s feelings/.
https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/926602895910490112
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: Nice to see that you are still incredibly tedious and brutally stupid.
Major Major Major Major
Also… this:
WTF? Contracts are semantic weirdness. That’s the entire point.
marcopolo
@debbie: I think you can compare what is going on with the R base with what happened with a certain percentage of Sanders supporters. For whatever reason, though I assume it was to maintain fund raising and leverage power within the party), the Sanders campaign–which really had no viable path to victory after March 2016–kept pushing the we can win this thing which included feeding massive doses of half-truth cool-aid (the supers will flip, Hillary will be indicted, she’s a bought and paid for corporate stooge, we will swamp her in CA, etc…) to his supporters right through the convention. I truly think by the time of the DNC he didn’t have a firm grip on a lot of his supporters and he was actually afraid of trying to reign them in (tell them the truth) because he was afraid he’d lose their support–which only makes him a coward in my book. Which is my main problem with him. I am glad he energized a bunch of new folks to enter the political process but he and his campaign never took the trouble to actually teach them about how politics works (examples: how delegate math works or how uninformed his supporters were at the Nevada state Dem convention because no one explained the rules to them which led directly to their petulance and acting like recalcitrant teens) and why pragmatism doesn’t have to be a bad word. The parallels with the ignorance of Trump supporters are eerie.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
As someone already said it’s so interesting that right before two important elections Donna “Comey” Brazille starts this shit. So fucking strange.
Elizabelle
Also, the title: Hack.
It’s almost an inside joke. What a fucking hack. Is irony dead?
J R in WV
@Amir Khalid:
A tell indeed, thanks for pointing that out, I’ve pied AmbergrisColors and only read a few of their posts.
Obviously a troll in support of everyone not a member of the Democratic party. The only question is if they are being paid, or if it’s a hobby. Probably a hobby, not good enough to be pro.
Amir Khalid
@Ruckus:
2016 was an anomaly. Hillary was not the most charismatic politician ever on the stump, but she had the substance to perform as president. On the other hand Trump was the worst candidate for President anyone could imagine, and then some. The freakish thing (to me, anyway) is that there were American voters who saw him flaunt his unfitness again and again, and still preferred such a person in office over one of the most qualified candidates ever. I have to think that that played a part in his victory.
Audrey
I understand Bernie (and the other candidates) could have as well if he had actually participated when this agreement was offered to him (them).
Major Major Major Major
@marcopolo: The more I’ve been following this current dust-up the more I’ve realized that we’re Tea Partying ourselves.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Omnes Omnibus: I agree. 3 & 6, in close to equal measure.
Amaranthine RBG
@Mnemosyne:
@Amaranthine RBG:
Ruckus
@different-church-lady:
I like how you write.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@Major Major Major Major: Well Bernie’s Tea Partying us.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Trentrunner:
When did you become such an obnoxious prick? Pie’d
dogwood
Democrats would rather win arguments and be right than win elections.
tobie
@Mnemosyne: good point. I forgot about the brouhaha concerning the questions about water (quelle surprise) at the Flint, MI debate. Brazile always struck me as soporific. Never thought she had the energy to be as malevolent as she’s now revealed herself to be.
Major Major Major Major
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: right, ‘we’ in a broader sense.
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: yesterday
Elizabelle
I have not read HRC’s campaign memoir. For those who did: what all did she have to say about Brave Hack Donna?
Amaranthine RBG
@J R in WV:
And you’re a whackjob conspiracy theorist. I would never think of sending you to pie heaven – it’s too entertaining to read your nuttiness.
J R in WV
@Corner Stone:
How far did you have to read to know Applejinx is a loon? A couple of lines is all it took me. Really, given the history, just the nym was a big clue.
D58826
@Amir Khalid:
True but she also had the triple disadvantage of her best surrogates – Bill, Michelle, and Barrack – were all exception political speakers. Almost any one would have suffered in comparison.
Corner Stone
“By the powers vested in me, as Interim Chair of the DNC, I hereby do declare the results of voting in 50 states to be null and void! I have no choice but to place the most qualified person I know as Democratic Nominee. Thank you all, and I humbly accept your nomination to run for President!”
D58826
@dogwood: No they would just rather argue endlessly
Major Major Major Major
@D58826: She was also up against a human tire fire, which has some weird charisma-negating cloud around it going on.
@Corner Stone: “also the primary was rigged!”
Mnemosyne
@Amaranthine RBG:
Sorry, comrade, you forgot to type anything.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: The Cheney Gambit.
Elizabelle
@J R in WV: Yeah. I don’t read Applejinx. Am a mean girl that way.
I am very curious if we will see anything from Mueller on Russian involvement on the Democratic side. It seems to me we are better knowing, and correcting, than always wondering.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
Disgruntled Paulistas saw an opening and, with an assist from the Russians, they took it. As with so many aspects of this situation, the only question for me is “useful idiot or fellow traveler”?
Applejinx
@Fair Economist: Fair enough: if he goes for re-election in Vermont (where I live) and claims to be running for President again, I will sadly not vote for him. Would probably stay home. This is because it’s always been about the issues he raised and stuck tenaciously to. It’s not ABOUT him and if he tries to run again I’ll know some of the accusations are true, that he thinks it’s about him.
It only seems like it’s about him to the extent that every other Democrat refuses to pursue economic justice (however it’s expressed, but ‘ladders to opportunity’ ain’t it, nor is the extermination of American small towns and American citizens)
As for Hillary Clinton, they told me she wasn’t really in control of the DNC either, so her saying she won’t run doesn’t mean that much to me. However, if the Democrats really don’t want her running again, well… this is why we’re seeing what we’re seeing, I think. Politics doesn’t have a lot of gratitude. ‘What have you done for me lately’ should not be ‘lost to a goddamn clown, dropped out of sight, blamed everybody else and been outed as a very entitled person believing she was the Democratic party’. Even if you have ALL the money that only works to a point, and then it gets really old and people start to rebel because they want to start winning elections again.
I want to start winning elections again as a D voter, and that won’t happen with either Sanders or Clinton. On the other hand I think by this point the race and gender ceilings have been smashed, since both Obama and Clinton won (popular votes). The rest is disenfranchisement, cheating… politics.
Adria McDowell
@different-church-lady: Thank you! Exactly.
When Bernie runs in 2020 and loses to Cantaloupe Caligula (thinking of you, efg!), who* will the Bernistas blame?
*Don’t answer that- I already know.
Amaranthine RBG
@Mnemosyne:
No, you forgot to read.
Dumbass.
Baud
I never would have learned that Hillary saved the party of it weren’t for this bruhaha. So thanks, Donna.
jnfr
@Elizabelle:
Is this remotely possible? Can the head of the DNC ignore all the primaries and caucuses and simply chose a nominee unilaterally? I can’t imagine this.
Mnemosyne
@Amaranthine RBG:
And you forgot to look up the definition of “shibboleth.” I’m afraid it doesn’t mean what you seem to think it means.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Amaranthine RBG:
No, it’s a tell, because every Dem should know by now not to say “Democrat” when it should be “Democratic”. Republicans say the former to be assholes all the time.
Mnemosyne
@Amaranthine RBG:
Advice to Democrats: this is the behavior of attention-seeking children.
Do you need a juice box and a cookie before your nap?
Baud
@jnfr: Maybe if the nominee is actually too ill to proceed.
marcopolo
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: As a corollary, I now say Republic instead of Republican when I talk about their party–and I could swear I have heard Joy Reid do that on her show once or twice.
guachi
@Elizabelle:
This is crazy. Hillary is the one who lost. Brazile should be calling her.
Betty Cracker
@LongHairedWeirdo: 100% true. And it’s working like a charm on some folks.
@Elizabelle: I had the same thought.
@Amir Khalid: I was driving earlier today and heard one of those tedious “let’s check in with heartland Trump voters” pieces on public radio. The idiots of the day were located in PA, have serious preexisting health issues and are utterly dependent on the ACA. They not only voted for Trump, they plan to do so again, but meanwhile, they hope that Trump won’t yank the ACA rug out from under them before they age into Medicare.
I silently put a Nordic-Irish-Anglo curse on them, that they should be visited by a series of plagues, including butt boils, bedbug infestations, belly fat necrosis, etc., plus the actual plague. To make a long story shorter, stupid definitely played a role!
Citizen Alan
@Elizabelle:
Personally, I will die a happy man if it is revealed that Tad Devine was on the Russian payroll just like Paul Manafort was. If so, I will want “I-told-you-so” carved onto my tombstone.
D58826
@Applejinx: I very very very much hope that Hillary, Uncle Joe, and Bernie combine in 2020 to form a first string cheering section for a younger generation of democrats candidates.
I also hope they all drop the purity pony act. Prof. Sen. Warren may be a good fit for MA, but your going to need some blue dogs in places like Ohio, IN, KA, etc. Now that means that the progressive wing will not get 100% of what it wants but I’m willing to settle for less as long as we are moving in the correct direction. It might take several slices of the loaf to get to the whole loaf.
But at this point the D’;s are creating a situation where the GOP will gleefully say ‘let them eat cake’
rikyrah
Brazile has played herself.
She is now cancelled.
Her phucking ass couldn’t have leaked this NEXT WEEK, after the elections?
PHUCK HER!!
HILLARY IS NOT EVIL
HILLARY GAVE THOSE PHUCKERS MONEY
AND?
SO?
WHY was the DNC broke?
Cause the big donors, once they realized that 44 wasn’t gonna kiss their azzes, took away the funds.
44 said, ok, and went and raised money with OFA.
The little donors, like me, saw, Democrats RUN AWAY FROM 44, and said, phuck Outta Here ?, I will donate to individual campaigns.
And any muthaphuckas who co-sign Brazile’s bullshyt are cancelled too!
Mnemosyne
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
The funniest part is that I actually looked up the definition of “shibboleth,” and it means a word that one group uses to set themselves apart as an in-group, which is exactly the way Rush Limbaugh and ARGB use it.
And now he’s trying to pretend that he’s not using it that way because shut up, that’s why.
Baud
@D58826: No we wouldn’t.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@marcopolo:
I just call them the GOP. I refuse to call them Republicans, because they stand for autocracy rather than republicanism
trnc
I was never impressed with Brazile as a surrogate, but never thought about her much aside from that. Are we now doing the same thing to her that NYT readers did to Hillary – respond to a dramatic headline fed to us by Politico without accompanying context?
Amir Khalid
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
He even omitted the initial cap: he wrote “democrat” not “Democrat”.
Amaranthine RBG
@Applejinx:
Yeah — every dumbass in this thread has said again and again that Clinton isn’t running in 2020. I guess her ambition just went poof? I mean, she surely would have run for a second term had she won, so it’s puzzling why anyone would be convinced that she couldn’t possibly intend to run.
What I suppose we are seeing now is the remnants of the Democatic party trying to make sure that Clinton doesn’t run in 2020.
Like I said, I don’t see much to gain by further bashing Clinton (I mean isn’t being such a shitty candidate that you lost to Donald Fucking Trump the absolute most damning thing you could ever say about anyone?) At the same time, it baffles me that there are so many people who feel it is very **important** to defend Clinton.
It’s interesting – it seems that a lot of these people are also the ones who have a real hard-on for football and get all agita when you mention CTE or the fact that they like watching something that cripples and kills people. Maybe that is the problem, they see everything (including politics) as a team sport and they year to wear short pleated skirts. I mean what the fuck? It’s like someone saying that whatever team lost last year’s superbowl was a crappy team and then the n that team’s fans getting all riled up. Who gives a shit about opinions about a losing team in a game that is over?
Major Major Major Major
@Amaranthine RBG:
EWWWW TMI TMI TMI
Fair Economist
@Applejinx:
In spite of the endless smears, the Clintons (both of them) are pretty honest in their public statements, apart from Bill lying about his affairs. If Hillary were considering running, she’d be coy like she was in 2006 and 2014. If she says she won’t, she won’t, like in 2004.
Somebody upthread said Hillary is for Hillary like Brazile is for Brazile. That’s not really true. We’ve looked at her policy proposals for 2016, as well as the proposals she wanted but skipped because she didn’t think she could make them work (like a Universal Basic Income). They were hella good and carefully thought out. She really cares about Americans, and cares a lot. She might want to be president still, but she knows politics and 2-time loser stink plus the endless smears plus her advancing age is all just too much, and she knows it. She’ll play elder statesman, but she won’t run.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@jnfr: According to CNN, if there’s a vacancy because the candidate died or is disabled, then the DNC chair consults with other democratic leaders to replace them. That is horrifyingly undemocratic, though I suppose it shows how far a party’s rights extend, ie all the way.
Chyron HR
@guachi:
Clinton should have called to thank
HeatherDonna for not kicking her off the ticket.? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
I read an NBC story about this and I gotta say this “scandal” is a big nothingburger. The agreement was for after the primaries were over for the campaign and the DNC to share money. And apparently it’s something that’s pretty standard. Where’s the actual evidence the primaries were rigged? To show the establishment favored Clinton (duh she was a long-time member with relationships in the party) is not enough.
Betty Cracker
@Applejinx:
That’s the stupidest thing you’ve ever said on this blog. And by God, that’s saying something!
marcopolo
@Baud: The downside of all this brouhaha has been the realization that when it came to the D party, Obama really let the ball drop. I love the man, and I realize he was busy running the country and everything, but couldn’t he have spent a little more time making sure the DNC was being run competently? I mean DWS was his appointment for fuks sake. Sure, they probably had to be someone who met with Clinton’s approval but really, no one better than her. And not paying more attention to the party apparatus that helps get D’s elected at every level. So much for eleven-dimensional thinking. Anyways, best president of my lifetime but hindsight is hindsight.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Amaranthine RBG
You gotta love when the nuts try to reinforce each other.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): There’s no democratic way to change a candidate last minute.
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: All of her scandals were nothingburgers in substance.
J R in WV
@Amaranthine RBG:
Thank you Comrade! I revel in your disregard!! And the pie was so hot, tart, sweet, cherry all the way down!!!!
Ruckus
@Major Major Major Major:
25 yrs in congress, in either house or senate and what has he done? Other than sit there.
He’s spent half his adulthood in congress, and made no progress towards his goal of what? He’s been there 25 yrs, what has he done to try to prevent what he sees as the only policy issue that matters, financial equality?
Mnemosyne
@Amaranthine RBG:
Really? You have no clue why people think it’s important to defend the winner of the popular vote and the first woman to win the popular vote for president? No idea at all?
This is why you fail, comrade.
Major Major Major Major
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): I dunno, I mean you’re not exactly going to be able to hold an election.
debbie
@Amir Khalid:
Some commentator somewhere said it best: Lots of people voted with their middle finger. There is no better middle finger in this universe than Donald Trump.
Baud
@marcopolo: Agreed. But it is also true that we collectively put to much on his shoulders and failed to provide enough support.
Mnemosyne
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
They have both since been banhammered, but one of my favorite days ever on this blog was when two longtime trolls started arguing with each other. One was the departed BiP and the other can’t be named at all because otherwise my comment will vanish, but he nymed himself after a super-fancy sportscar.
FlipYrWhig
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): I have a hard time squaring Brazile’s angst at how Hillary rigged the party (by wanting input on one hiring decision) with her zeal for… rigging the party.
Fair Economist
@marcopolo:
The general assumption is she was appointed because she was a great fundraiser. No evidence that I know of. I would also like to know Obama’s thought processes when he appointed DWS, because there were a lot a questions about her from even before her appointment (starting with cozy relations with several FL Republicans).
Major Major Major Major
@FlipYrWhig: It’s pretty amazing. Projection: it’s not just a method in relational algebra!
Fair Economist
@Mnemosyne:
Also, she’s still one of the key voices of the party, and judging by her book and interviews, *still* the best person we have for policy.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Amir Khalid:
I caught that too.
@Mnemosyne:
It really is funny watching them backpeddle. TR did that the other day too when called on his Northam bullshit.
debbie
@Major Major Major Major:
More like Libertarianing ourselves.
marcopolo
@Fair Economist: Thanks for only partially quoting me. My point is that most humans, and almost everyone who gets into politics looks after their own interests first. It is how that truth is mediated with concerns about the general welfare that show who can be trusted with power, and if you return to my comment you will see that I think Hillary has managed to bridge that well most of the time. On the other hand, her decision to run her emails out of that server (which was her looking after her own interests AND I am NOT saying was illegal or anything nefarious) did come back to bite her in the a$$ big time. That’s politics & I bet she wishes she had that to do over.
Fair Economist
@Baud:
No, *but* everybody else immediately realized if she were replaced, it would have to be by Bernie, because that would have been the best approximation to a democratic process since, obviously, if Clinton had had to withdraw before the convention, Bernie would have been the nominee.
Eljai
@D58826: That’s frightening. Nadya Tolokonnikova of Pussy Riot was on Lawrence O’Donnell and she had some unsettling warnings for Americans, and the DOJ going after the ACLU is one pretty big fucking red flag. I admit I got pulled into the Brazile story, but, in the end, we’re gonna have to determine who our allies are, join hands, and fight to save our Democracy. Those who are not willing to do that, ignore them. If we want to check the powers of the fascists in the White House, we have to get back Democratic majorities in congress.
Major Major Major Major
@debbie: well, who funded the tea party? The libertarians Koch’s.
Baud
@Fair Economist: I was on vacation when that happened, but I imagine it must have gotten pretty nasty given that possibility.
ThresherK
@James E. Powell: She’s stupid enough to not really care if those people putting her on teevee are friends, or will toss her away like used toilet paper in two days.
This book is her “swordfish”; the password she needs to recite so they’ll make her a CNN (or the like) contributor again.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Mnemosyne:
I think I remember reading about that. There was a troll that was on here that had a two or three letter nym, all lowercase. They weren’t so obnoxious except would post seemingly contradicting RW news articles to whatever the topic of the post was.
Major Major Major Major
@Fair Economist: then why did Brazile want to replace her with Biden? It’s doubly stupid.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Baud: @Major Major Major Major: Yeah, I know. I vaguely remember when Eagleton had to be replaced as VP but that’s not comparable at all, since the VP pick is always undemocratic. I also vaguely remember some of the arguments for moving to the primary system instead of having the party insiders pick the candidate at the convention.
@FlipYrWhig: I guess this is what I’m objecting to. Brazile is patting herself on the back for not jumping in and replacing the candidate who’d emerged from the primaries.
Amaranthine RBG
@Mnemosyne:
No.
After the people of Gilead defeated the Ephraimites they blockaded the Jordan river to prevent the Ephraimites from returning back to their homes. To make them prove that they were not Ephraimites, they made them say the word because they typically mispronounced the SH sound at the beginning. So, not it is not used to designate an “in-group” or whatever pseudo-science mumbo jumbo you are trying to spout. Here, you, and some others are spending time bitching about “democrat” versus “Democratic.” You are the ones trying to employ a shibboleth.
The only difference is that the you have chosen a fucking retarded test.
marcopolo
@Baud: I get your point and agree, just wish there’d been someone like Axelrod he could have tasked with keeping an eye on things. The Republics do seem to do a better job at this than we do. And come to think of it, maybe it is because D’s actually worry about running the government well that they have less time to spend worrying about the nuts and bolts of the election process.
debbie
@Major Major Major Major:
I was thinking more of Ron Paul or Gary Johnson. Neither would get any support from the Kochs.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major:
Because mavericky white man would beat Trump or something.
D58826
@Fair Economist:
You can substitute the name of every person who has run for public office in that statement. And the higher the office the bigger the ego. BUT some folks also have a larger vision as to why they run for office. Just like teachers accept the grief they get because they want to be TEACHERS. They see the job as something bigger then themselves and as a way to give back to the larger society.
What I don’t understand about conservatives in general, and the current GOP in particular, is that in spite of all the talk about family values, patriotism, religious values, etc. at the end of the day their vision extends no further than ‘whats-in-it-for me’ and ‘I’ve got mine and to H** with every one else’. They talk incessantly about their personal relationship with Jesus and their Bible based way of life but they do not seem to have actually read the book. I’m not particularly religious but I don’t remember ever reading about Christ throwing a banquet for the Roman elite or arguing that the only ones getting into heaven are those that qualify for the carried interest deduction. On the other hand I do remember a lot about feeding the poor and busting up the tables of the money changers because they had turn the Temple into a den of thieves. But then maybe I was reading the wrong Bible.
Ruckus
@D58826:
Well, as it is, we have about as much impact as a dust mite in a sandstorm. It’s a blog. We write to avoid, relieve, carp about, being democrats in the middle of a shitstorm of republican bullshit. And cats, dogs and pretty pictures, people/dogs/cats dying, pizza, and sometimes how we see politics. This is our back yard fence, abet with a slightly larger audience than one might normally have.
I myself have asked the same question you just did, why is all we do is talk about stuff. Because that’s what a blog is, a back yard fence between far flung neighbors.
You want to make a difference, get involved with local politics, with the democratic party in your area.
Mnemosyne
@marcopolo:
Here’s the totally unforeseeable thing about Hillary’s email server: current indications are that the Russians noticed the Republicans’ absolute fucking obsession with it and used it as bait to get Republicans to partner with them. I honestly don’t think that was in any way predictable back in 2008.
SiubhanDuinne
@Elizabelle:
I have it on Kindle so was able to do a keyword search. Brazile is mentioned exactly once, in a complimentary way and in context of the convention:
That’s it, that’s all.
Baud
@marcopolo: That’s supposed to be what Perez is doing, if he can get past the “unity commission “.
Major Major Major Major
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady):
“Look, rigging the primary is a choice, just like homosexuality. We all think about it every day, but only the righteous don’t act on it!”
marcopolo
@Wow, good point. I hadn’t considered that getting back on the money train for “respected” political commentators is perhaps the most important goal in her life nowadays.
Mnemosyne
@Amaranthine RBG:
Didn’t click on the link, did you?
And the fact that you insist on sticking with the Bible story from your KJV rather than the actual definition of the word as it is used in English is yet more indication that it is, in fact, a conservative shibboleth that you just can’t stop yourself from using even when you’re trying to pretend to be a liberal.
Baud
@Mnemosyne: Agree. It’s a made up scandal.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Amaranthine RBG:
From Merriam-Webster:
She was probably referring to the 2b definition. Either way she was right.
Eat crow loser.
Betty Cracker
@Major Major Major Major: Hmmm. Maybe she’s angling to run Biden’s 2020 campaign?
Baud
@Betty Cracker: She’ll never run Baud! 2020! after this stunt.
Fair Economist
@D58826:
@Major Major Major Major:
I love the humor in this blog. If you’re looking for a reason to read it, that’s one of the top ones.
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker: god save us all.
Baud
@tobie: Agree. Thank you.
marcopolo
@Mnemosyne: Though it will be exquisite irony if it is “Hillary’s emails” that wind up bringing down the Trump administration due to Russian collusion just because they were such catnip to everyone in the Trump campaign. I just picture those emails like the fly on the end of the fly fisherman’s line and the Trump campaign like some fish that can’t help itself from leaping at it every time it is waved in front of them.
cleek
fuck the left. fuck all of it.
Mnemosyne
@tobie:
FWIW, it has now been proven that Warren does, in fact, have American Indian ancestry — they have been able to establish that her great-grandmother was Native American (though I forget what her tribal affiliation is).
Baud
@marcopolo: Yes it would.
Elizabelle
OT. Reuters from yesterday. At least Secretary Clinton never had to put up with this. Although anyone craven enough to take a job in the Trump administration deserves it.
Isn’t Trump’s comment just one of the most dumbass you have ever, ever heard? It’s classic, for anyone watching at home, DMS-5 at hand. (The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition)
But it gets better: Take it away Reuters:
I think that’s the best thing I have seen all day. It does not even say “elected.” And works “moron” into the mix.
Little long for a rotating tag, but it is a thing of beauty.
Yutsano
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): The glance over of Duterte is either naïve or deliberate, and neither option is good. Also comparing two Asian nations to two European ones falls on its face. The editors should have strangled that article in the crib.
Mnemosyne
@marcopolo:
Yep. And I suspect that same fishing pole was getting waved in front of the New York Times as well, and by the same people. We already know from “Curveball” and Iraq that the NYT is very susceptible to con artists.
D58826
@Ruckus: During the primary I ran a search on Bernie’s congressional record. He co-sponsored some legislation but none of which he was the named sponsor (i.e. Dodd-Frank). He submitted a lot of legislation that never even got to the hearing stage and that was when the D’s controlled the chamber that he was in. The only legislative achievement that I could find was the VA reform bill in 2009 when he was the chairmen of the veterans affairs committee. Obviously he supplied a needed D vote but he was pretty much a back bencher his entire career. I don’t mean that as an insult because most of the members of Congress are pretty much backbenchers for their entire careers. There are only so many committee chairmanship from which to get your face in front a of a TV camera. To make the leap that he would have been a major force in getting legislation passed as POTUS I think is a stretch. Even with a D controlled Congress I don’t think he would have been an LBJ in getting things done. A big part of his problem was that as an independent he didn’t really have to play well with others so he never developed those ‘you wash my hands and I’ll wash yours’ relationships.
Cheryl Rofer
Huh. I am working through my breakdown of the claims in the Steele dossier, and I found this:
That doesn’t prove anything, and I am definitely NOT claiming any particular person is a Russian helper. Certainly the second claim has not been supported. But it makes one to wonder.
Ruckus
@Amir Khalid:
I believe it’s called misogyny.
That and bullshit. But mostly misogyny. The 20+yrs of Clinton bashing, both Bill and Hillary, that had gone on before didn’t help. Thing is drumpf only had a very few vote lead in key states in the electoral vote. Had the third/fourth party candidates, who had a less than zero chance in our duopoly not been there, the popular vote winner would have been elected. In modern times it’s been GWB in 2000 with the USSC and 2016 with drumpf/Russian interference/third party, that the popular vote lost the election. And both times we ended up with extremely unpopular republican candidates. Hmmmmmmmm.
Chyron HR
Well, on the bright side, we now know that Bernie ran a flawless primary campaign, and when 2020 rolls around he can tell the schvartzers to shut the fuck up without having to worry that the rigged DNC will trick them into voting for his opponent.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: I thought she checked it on some “just asking” demographics form that had no bearing on her admission/career/whatever.
Mnemosyne
@Cheryl Rofer:
I have had a paranoid thought why the Republicans are so certain that a specific staffer’s death was actually murder, but I promised Anne Laurie I would save it for my novel rather than speculate baselessly online.
Ruckus
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
You do know don’t you, that GOP stands for Greasy Old Poop?
It’s the same rewarmed bullshit, over and over. And over. And over. Has been for the last 70 yrs. And likely the 70 before that and the 70 before that.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Elizabelle:
I don’t know. I think it could work. Just add “election tainted or something”.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
There’s always been some dispute about why Harvard touted her American Indian ancestry to show that their faculty was more diverse than their critics were saying and who exactly provided them with that information. However, now that the information has been proven correct and she has been accepted for membership by that specific tribe, it’s silly to keep bringing it up as some kind of proof of Warren’s dishonesty.
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne: What would your friend think your story was?
D58826
@Mnemosyne: This morning on AM Joy Malcolm Nance had two comments about the e-mails. First he wonders if the 30k e-mails that are being discussed even exist. His thinking is that if they do exist and contain anything more embarrassing than receipts or corny jokes, they would have leaked by now, if not thru the Trump campaign then thru Wikileaks.
The second point he made was that it seems like Hillary’s home brew server was the ONLY one not hacked during this sorry saga. It came out last week that someone, probably Russian, had hacked into the Trump Org servers four years ago. Maybe the person who set up Hillary’s security should be awarded a Noble prize in cyber security
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
A new lower than bottom low? Negative low?
That is saying something.
dogwood
@marcopolo:
Republicans at the RNC do better than we do? Jeebus, they ended up with Donald Trump as their nominee. Can you imagine the internal emails swirling around that joint during the primaries? They couldn’t even organize a Convention. But none of that hurt them in the end because the RNC and the DNC aren’t all that powerful. Republicans know that, so they don’t fight about this crap. ”Obama dropped the ball…”. So ridiculous.
trollhattan
@D58826:
I wonder, back when Hillary was working to save Legal Services Corporation from Reagan what were our purity ponies doing for their country? Anybody who wishes to dispute her lifelong dedication to public service needs to show their work or STFU.
Mnemosyne
@Elizabelle:
Really, just completely paranoid, baseless speculation based on no evidence whatsoever. The kind of thing that would make a great midpoint plot twist for a thriller screenplay: the people claiming that the victim’s mysterious death was really a murder are the ones who murdered them, and now the hero is on the run from his own client! Pure speculation (fiction) based off the single interesting data point that someone employed at Brazile’s former workplace died in a robbery gone wrong.
FlipYrWhig
@D58826: People truly haven’t been able to differentiate between the various sources of EMAILS! since this whole story began.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: well of course it’s stupid.
D58826
@trollhattan: Yep or the ill-fated Hillary-care in 1994. Sure being called Mr/Madam President is good for the ego but some people really do think that public service is a noble calling, even if like Tweetie it is only in the peace corps.
On the other hand you have to be nuts to want to be POTUS. Case in point latest crisis from CNN
Ruckus
@Fair Economist:
Is it possible that the DNC, which pretty much runs the convention and not a whole lot else really isn’t all that? President Obama had a lot on his plate and someone who can run the convention is really all that’s necessary. What little fund raising that goes on is there to run the convention and keep the lights on. Especially for President Obama. He saw early on that the DNC was not a help in getting elected, raising funds, setting agendas, policy or anything else, other than the convention city and fund raising for the convention. People on BJ have stated they get no emails from the DNC. I do but they are so outnumbered by all the other democratic fund raisers that it is laughable.
Betty Cracker
@Ruckus: Rejoice, womenfolk! Yeah, the first female major party nominee got (and still gets!) buckets of sexist slime dumped on her daily, and a sleazy misogynist is in the Oval Office. But the glass ceiling is smashed! Hooray!
D58826
@FlipYrWhig: That’s why ‘but her e-mails’ has been so helpful :-)
marcopolo
@dogwood:Yes, they do. You can read my comment in just the context of the 2016 presidential contest if you’d like, but I was talking about electoral politics at the national, state, and local levels. Look at the friggin results since 2000. The R’s have generally been kicking our a$$. They currently control all the federal branches, control all branches of state gov’t in 33 states (think the D’s are at 6 right now), and so on and so forth. Noting that the 2016 R presidential primary contest was a steaming shitshow is missing the forest for one tree.
Corner Stone
@dogwood:
Am interested to hear a counter argument to this contention.
Ruckus
@marcopolo:
On the other hand, her decision to run her emails out of that server (which was her looking after her own interests AND I am NOT saying was illegal or anything nefarious) did come back to bite her in the a$$ big time. That’s politics & I bet she wishes she had that to do over.
Thing was, there really was no other way at the time. State had a secure system and it couldn’t be used for non secure and personal email. Her republican predecessors did exactly the same thing, only they didn’t seem to worry about security. She went the extra step. It bit her in the ass because of the MSM. Not because of anything else.
Steve in the ATL
@Mnemosyne: @marcopolo:
The server did not matter; it was a maguffin. If there hadn’t been a server to fixate on, it would have been something else equally stupid. They (MSM, GOP, Russia, BernieBros) were going to crucify Hillary no matter what she did. The actual “offense” was irrelevant.
D58826
@Corner Stone: Well someone dropped something. I remember on election night 2008 and all of the talk about the looming D majority for a generation and the rump GOP that could not win an election for local dog catcher. And by 2010, by Obama’s own admission, the GOP had kicked the D’s butt.
SFAW
@Mnemosyne:
Arglebargle was just doing the “West Wing” version of “shibboleth,” please don’t expect him to give a shit about accuracy or honesty.
And, I still maintain that he’s the asshole who kept saying that RBG should have resigned/retired during Obama’s term, so that Obama could get a young, healthy liberal Justice confirmed. Given how well that worked out, it’s an indicator of what a clear, insightful (or is it inciteful?), subtle thinker Arglebargle is.
D58826
@Steve in the ATL: Benghazi would have filled the bill nicely. Or the uranium deal. Or she puts brown sugar on her oatmeal in the morning rather than raisins (remember the meltdown over Obama putting mustard on his burger).
SFAW
@trollhattan:
But her e-mails! And Goldman Sachs! And Tay-Sachs! And Vince Foster! And Laura Palmer!
MoxieM
I wonder why “they” thought that “Donna [might] do anything crazy” ? hmmm.
marcopolo
@Ruckus: The “official” responsibilities of the DNC are as you note fairly limited. And there is the DSCC and the DCCC and the one for state elections. What the leader of the DNC can also do is try to provide resources and guidance, and coordination for state parties. I think I read Kay pooh poohing Dean’s 50 state strategy a day or two ago but I was living in AK at the time and the fact that the DNC paid for staff position for a person at the AK state D party essentially meant doubling the number of paid positions. And the DNC funded person went around the state and really helped quite a bit with local organizers. While I am pretty sure that, say, the CA state D party doesn’t have any particular funding or staffing or other resource issues, the D party in one of the Dakotas or Mississippi probably wouldn’t mind a little assistance from the national folks.
And just to put my personal issue on the table, I don’t understand why 7 day/week 52 weeks/year ongoing voter registration/education does not seem to be a designated core function of any D party organization at the national, state, city, ward/parish level. It seems glaringly obvious to me that winning elections requires having voters who can vote for your candidates.
D58826
@SFAW: And she singled handedly towed the iceberg in front of the Titanic using a rowboat and one oar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Major Major Major Major
@D58826: true liberals like myself use applesauce. She’s selling out to big sugar.
Mnemosyne
@D58826:
Citizens United and the gutting of the Voting Rights Act both happened in 2010. That is not a coincidence.
ETA: Plus restrictive voter ID laws being ruled constitutional, though I think that happened before 2008? I lose track.
Corner Stone
Listening to Philip Rucker of WaPo and Donna Brazile sounds both crazy and fucking stupid as all hell. She kept threatening the HRC campaign with removal? WTF?
Kathleen
@J R in WV: Amen, Sir! I want to cuddle your comment. In a very platonic way of course.
Corner Stone
I hope HRC and her surrogates wait a good amount of time and then just offhandedly snub Brazile and move on.
Corner Stone
And if that god damn Joe Biden pipes up I think I may try and strangle his egotistical ass.
Kathleen
@debbie: Our media? The same people who gleefully reported that the “Clinton Cash” hit piece had true stuff that was worthwhile reporting?
As rikyrah would say, “Uh huh. Uh huh”.
Ruckus
@D58826:
That’s politics in our country. And most of the others on the planet. You make progress in steps, hopefully more forward steps than backwards, but in steps. Humanity works this way. Life works this way. Big leaps usually end up at the bottom of a canyon in a heap of blood, guts and gore.
You state that most back bench sitters don’t make much of a splash and he didn’t either. That’s because he is a back bench guy, not presidential material. Of course the secreting pustule that is in our house now has never even risen to back bench status.
Kathleen
@JMG: He is not on my side. He is not on your side. He’s only on Bernie’s side. He’s a rodent copulator.
Marguerite Hill
@Barbara: Not only will I NOT BUY BRAZILE’S BOOK, I shall not even check it out of the library.
SFAW
@D58826:
Unpossible! Her fainting spell made her the weakestest person ever and therefore unqualified to row.
UNLESS … the purported “fainting spell” was just a clever ruse to throw Rep. Cletus Spucker “Goodhair” Gowdy off the scent when he was investigating her ties to the Titanic’s sinking! My God! Does her evil know no bounds?
marcopolo
@Ruckus: Well, see, I think the actual problem stems from the fact that Hillary (and D’s in general) wanted to actually get work done when she was SoS and that meant having to do a lot of communicating with folks which meant you know using shit like email. Seriously! I really do believe that Trump does not use email because: 1) it does leave an evidence trail and I suspect the majority of shit he does is borderline legal/illegal; 2) if you aren’t really trying to do a lot of stuff you don’t need to communicate all that much. I mean how much email and stuff do you think is happening at Carson’s dept right now.
Also too, I agree with everyone saying if she hadn’t used a private email server her opponents would have found some other cross to nail her too. As I said in my original comment, I did not think she did anything wrong in using it–was just using it as an example of her putting her own interests first. Which, again, is only human and doesn’t necessarily have a weighted value connotation in my book.
Aleta
@Ruckus: Sobering to see misogyny’s effect on democracy.
D58826
In a sane society he would be labeled something the cat refused to drag in
Kathleen
@Hunter Gathers: Don’t forget the outsiders from “The Left” who are eating it up and who are not Democrats.
marcopolo
@Mnemosyne: But once again, you can tie those actions to R’s winning elections. Success in elections allow success on policy levels/getting a favorable majority on the SC.
dogwood
@D58826:
Anyone who thought democrats were headed for some long-term domination in ‘08 were definitely high on something. We were losing close to 800,000 jobs/mo., banks and major industries were failing, and two wars were still going great guns. Anyone who thought that would all be cleared up in a couple of years and we’d elect even more Democrats was doing more wishing than thinking.
Kathleen
@Cheryl Rofer: I agree that it’s important to understand the extent of Russian involvement. It’s just as important to really understand the breadth of who all of our enemies are, foreign and domestic.
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
Not sure here but I was making fun of Applejinx or whatever it is, that it could go so low as to be lower than wale shit 2 weeks after it was excreted. I have it pied so you brave folks can make fun of it and I don’t have to bother.
Did I miss something? Wouldn’t be the first time nor I’m sure the last.
Kathleen
@Nicole: Cosigned.
Mnemosyne
@marcopolo:
Yes, but that success dates to well before Obama’s election. Bush was installed in office because of decisions made by Supreme Court justices who had been appointed by Ronald Reagan. If 2000 hadn’t happened, I honestly think 2016 would not have happened this way, because 2000 made the Republicans realize they could successfully gerrymander the whole fucking country and the conservative-dominated Supreme Court would help them do it.
Democrats wanted to govern; Republicans wanted to rule.
ETA: You and I are on the same page about the importance of winning elections. I’m just pointing out the booby traps that the Repugs were able to lay since 2000 to make that more difficult.
D58826
@dogwood: IIRC the basis for the optimism was the long term demographic trends that had D voting blocks growing while R groups were shrinking.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Yutsano: It doesn’t even make anything even resembling any goddamned sense; at least there are (some) historical factors behind Putin apologetics, thoroughly tortured though they are.
And the point I was making is that given a) his turning Salon’s FP coverage into a laughingstock, b) his writing for Russia Insider, and c) just being a fucking horrible prose writer, The Nation’s hiring Patrick Lawrence Smith is completely indefensible.
D58826
@Mnemosyne: And it would have been Gore making those SCOTUS appointments. Roberts and Alito would still be on the outside looking in.
Kathleen
@germy: Judging from excerpts I’ve seen from her book and her behavior after the push back, I don’t think I would trust her judgement either though to me that doesn’t justify disrespect displayed by HRC staffers..
Idle thought. I wonder if Hillary suspected something was amiss.
Ruckus
@marcopolo:
Don’t really know how to answer your questions, as I don’t work at or run any of the democratic national organizations.
But I won’t let that stop me.
I think that your idea of the national organizations helping with voter registration and getting out the vote is a very solid one. I’ve asked repeatedly what happens to my money if I give to the numerous requests I get for democratic funding and not once has there been an answer. Maybe it’s up to us or OFA maybe to promote that. Local parties do this, I’ve worked GOTV for dems here in CA a number of times. But some coordination might be a very helpful strategy. It might be even more helpful if there is some org already doing this which we could help. I’m not sure the DSCC or the DCCC do this, I’ve never been able to find out.
Captain C
@Ridnik Chrome: As I’ve said before, if you are going to advocate a Heighten the Contradictions strategy, you had best be volunteering to be the first on whom the contradictions are heightened. Otherwise, you’re just a sadist making others suffer to get your way, and we already have an entire political party for that.
Mnemosyne
@D58826:
Which is why the Republicans are going all out to suppress minority voters on flimsy grounds. More voters were suppressed in Wisconsin than Trump’s margin of victory there.
Another Scott
@Elizabelle: HRC’s book is still in my “to read soon” pile.
There’s one entry in the index for DB, page 340:
(Typos mine)
DWS has 2 entries (p. 340, 341).
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kathleen
@schrodingers_cat: I agree. I would also l like someone to tell me what one, concrete positive thing Bernie has accomplished in terms of advancing his “humanitarian” agenda? Has he ever put his skin in the game on a controversial issue like some first term Dem members of Congress did when they voted for ACA though they knew it would cost them their seats? (This is one of the reasons I want to scream when I hear the “spineless Dems” meme). Has he ever shown any political courage? What. Has. He. Done. to earn anyone’s belief that he actually has some kind of program other than appearing in the media to whine and complain?
satby
@Betty Cracker: The jinxster specializes in stupid. And hatred of ebbil vagina-American she dragon Clinton.
Ruckus
@marcopolo:
I suspect far more of number 2 than 1. I think the only time he thinks about legality is when his personal lawyer tells him he’s being sued and then it’s to tell him to fix it. Right now he thinks that anything he does is legal, he really does think he is king.
On the rest, I wasn’t trying to bust you, just to reiterate that it really, really doesn’t matter what HRC did, does or will do, misogyny/racism/hate is the rule of the day in conservative politics. Even the religious conservatives are all about hate. OK especially the religious conservatives. I remember hearing WF Buckley on TV and wondering why he hated everyone so much, what the fuck was wrong with him. I still don’t know but I do know that hate is their motivation.
Steve in the ATL
@Another Scott:
It’s in my “too soon to read” pile
Mnemosyne
@satby:
He needs to discuss his issues with women with a professional therapist, but he probably never will.
Amaranthine RBG
@Mnemosyne:
Le sigh.
The narrative giving rise to the term shibboleth is discussed in the book of Judges, or Shoftim which is part of the Nevi’im. It predates the KJV by quite a bit.
Amaranthine RBG
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
This is just priceless. I relate the story of how the word came to mean what it means and you got people popping up with online dictionaries.
dogwood
@D58826:
The demographics were part of that conversation, you are right. The challenge that Democrats face isn’t just how to reach and register more POC, but how to get them to the polls on a regular basis. And I’m not criticizing Democrats for doing a shitty job either; it’s a difficult task. The best predictor of someone’s likelihood of becoming a consistent voter is family voting behavior. Republicans would struggle as much as we do getting these people to the polls on a consistent basis if they were actually interested in courting them.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
As I recall, Obama wanted Jennifer Granholm to take the job, but she backed out at the last minute for never defined personal reasons, and after that DWS was the one who both ticked the boxes (one of which was her popularity with big donors, so…) and would take the job.
Another Scott
@Another Scott: And Subaru Diane got there first. ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Amaranthine RBG: he responded to your wikipedia research with an online dictionary? Well, I never!
Steve, if you left and never came back, no one would blame you.
germy
divF
@Major Major Major Major: Same here.
rikyrah
@J R in WV:
Tell it!
NotMax
@Omnes Omnibus
Worst episode of The Man From U.N.C.L.E. ever.
;)
MoxieM
@J R in WV: I’d like to print this comment, frame it, and hang it in my house, somewhere highly visible!
SFAW
@Amaranthine RBG:
Yeah, whatever, Jed. Well, Aaron, actually, but Jed spoke the words what Aaron writ.
charon
This is the lady so offended over not being taken seriously.
He may have been right.
Gretchen
@Major Major Major Major: Yes. It was a survey when she was on the Harvard Law faculty to see what kind of diversity the faculty had. Which she was already on by her own merit. They spun it that the only reason she got into law school was as an affirmative action gift.
Mnemosyne
@Amaranthine RBG:
Yes, it’s so weird that people insist on using the actual definition and meaning of the word in English rather than letting you substitute your superior Biblical knowledge for common usage and accepted definitions.
Scotian
I know this is a dead thread, and while there were many comments I wanted to second, and others excoriate, this last comment by Mnemosyne is too on point, too perfect, not to note, repeat and endorse in full measure!:
“Yes, it’s so weird that people insist on using the actual definition and meaning of the word in English rather than letting you substitute your superior Biblical knowledge for common usage and accepted definitions.”
What a shocking concept and development in human civilization! Instead of using religious books as sources for the meanings of words, we use dictionaries, thsaurusus’ and such! WOW! Who could possibly have known let alone understood that, it is such a new develop…wait, it has been around multiple sequential human lifetimes? Really? Then how could anyone not understand that? Willful blindness, pre-programmed limitations, that sort of thing maybe, kinds hard to come up with much else.
Sorry for adding to your dump at the end of the thread, but this idiocy with word meanings and the argument being put forth to defend ARGB’s use of one word really strikes to a larger problem in society, the lack of using the common tools we used to for governing/running civil society, whatever its makeup. I see that happening not just in the USA either, but currently it seems most pronounced/visible there, so I am hoping/praying that the solution comes first there too, but being an outsider looking in, well nerve-wracking is an understatement.
Mutaman
Betty, your husband doesn’t sound like the sharpest pencil in the box.
Mutaman
@Trentrunner: “Rig” is a word invented by Trump. Why do liberals keep using it?