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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Can I get a witness?

Can I get a witness?

by DougJ|  January 26, 20188:30 pm| 70 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Assholes

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How is this any different than the time Obama wore a tan suit and put his feet up on the desk?

President Donald Trump pressed senior aides last June to devise and carry out a campaign to discredit senior FBI officials after learning that those specific employees were likely to be witnesses against him as part of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation, according to two people directly familiar with the matter.

There’s zero chance that Trump will impeached in this Congress and zero chance that anything protecting Mueller will get through the House in this Congress. It’s all about November. Let’s raise some more money for Swing Left, which is helping to target 70 House Republican seats.

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70Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    January 26, 2018 at 8:36 pm

    The tan suit discredited all of us. Much worse.

  2. 2.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    January 26, 2018 at 8:40 pm

    Google wasn’t much help with this question: is a presidential signature on a bill or executive order still legal if it was signed under duress?

  3. 3.

    lollipopguild

    January 26, 2018 at 8:41 pm

    Trump could have ordered the CIA to kill Comey and/or Mueller and his supporters would have cheered and applauded.

  4. 4.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    January 26, 2018 at 8:41 pm

    @Baud: Only thing worse would have been wearing white after Labor Day.

  5. 5.

    Major Major Major Major

    January 26, 2018 at 8:43 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I gotta read this story…

  6. 6.

    B.B.A.

    January 26, 2018 at 8:47 pm

    @lollipopguild: Fortunately, he hasn’t got the nerve to actually do this. If we ever get a president with the same brainwashed mass following who’s ruthless enough to take advantage of it, there will be trouble indeed.

  7. 7.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    January 26, 2018 at 8:49 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I’m presuming Goku’s implication is that Trumpovich has been under Russian kompromat for his entire time in office, though IDK for sure.

  8. 8.

    Baud

    January 26, 2018 at 8:51 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: You’ll never catch me committing a clothing faux pas when I’m president.

  9. 9.

    NotMax

    January 26, 2018 at 8:52 pm

    Three terms we’re bound to become more familiar with as Mueller progresses:

    1) the charge of misprision of a felony
    2) 18 U.S. Code § 1519

    Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

    3) 18 U.S. Code § 1513

    [section 2] (e) Whoever knowingly, with the intent to retaliate, takes any action harmful to any person, including interference with the lawful employment or livelihood of any person, for providing to a law enforcement officer any truthful information relating to the commission or possible commission of any Federal offense, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.
    (f) Whoever conspires to commit any offense under this section shall be subject to the same penalties as those prescribed for the offense the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.

  10. 10.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    January 26, 2018 at 8:54 pm

    @B.B.A.:
    Look up “For All Time” on alternatehistory.net. The US gets so fucked up that Jim Jones becomes President in the 70s.

  11. 11.

    Major Major Major Major

    January 26, 2018 at 8:54 pm

    @(((CassandraLeo))): ah, I figured it was for a story he was writing, as such questions sometimes are. We shall see!

  12. 12.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    January 26, 2018 at 8:56 pm

    PSA re annoying autoplay ads:

    Google is releasing a new version of Chrome this week and it includes a number of new features, such as an improved ad blocker and Spectre mitigations. The best new feature in Chrome 64 is the ability to permanently mute websites that autoplay videos. This feature was teased for several months, but now it’s finally here. The Independent reports:
    To mute a site that automatically plays videos, users will need click the View Site Information symbol, which may look like a green padlock, on the left-hand edge of the omnibar — the address bar combined with the Google search box. Then they will need to select Sound. Once the website is muted, it will not automatically play videos with sound again until you unmute it.

  13. 13.

    NotMax

    January 26, 2018 at 8:58 pm

    @Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe)

    As the only requirement is a signature, with no conditions of circumstance specified, the answer is yes. Plus what does or does not constitute duress can be a rather fluid definition.

    Post-signing remedies could include a subsequent exec order of repeal or legislation doing the same.

  14. 14.

    Major Major Major Major

    January 26, 2018 at 9:03 pm

    @(((CassandraLeo))): @Major Major Major Major: @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: yay I was right-ish

  15. 15.

    lollipopguild

    January 26, 2018 at 9:06 pm

    @Baud: You are going to walk around the White House totally naked?

  16. 16.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    January 26, 2018 at 9:08 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Just a barebones idea. Probably been done before. The protag gets super powers and pretends to be a messiah-like figure and amasses a worldwide following. The real trouble comes about when he starts murdering people who get his way and he feels deserve to die. This includes politicians and other world leaders he deems evil.

  17. 17.

    FlyingToaster

    January 26, 2018 at 9:08 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: NotMax has already hit the salient points, but I’ll reiterate the kicker:

    Define duress.

    “It’ll be politically uncomfortable if I don’t” isn’t duress.
    “Putin will stop loving me” isn’t duress.
    “[donor] will stop giving me money” isn’t duress.

    The Secret Service detail exists to insulate the president from any kind of physical duress.

    So how exactly can a president be put under duress?

    Note: A president with gonads simply vetoes the damn bill, when it gets to the Oval Office. One without makes everyone wait for the 10-day pocket veto and it goes into law anyway.

  18. 18.

    FlyingToaster

    January 26, 2018 at 9:08 pm

    @lollipopguild: Brain bleach on aisle 4, stat!

  19. 19.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    January 26, 2018 at 9:09 pm

    @lollipopguild: Yes, that’s Baud’s natural state.

    ETA: “Baud!2020!…Let it ALL hang out.”

  20. 20.

    Omnes Omnibus

    January 26, 2018 at 9:13 pm

    @Baud: There are nudity faux pas as well.

  21. 21.

    SFAW

    January 26, 2018 at 9:15 pm

    How is this any different than the time Obama wore a tan suit and put his feet up on the desk?

    White makes right? Orange is the new Black (but it’s still better)? But her e-mails? Because “shut up”?

    Anybody? BMueller? BMueller? BMueller?

  22. 22.

    No Drought No More

    January 26, 2018 at 9:15 pm

    “There’s zero chance that Trump will impeached in this Congress and zero chance that anything protecting Mueller will get through the House in this Congress”.

    You’re wrong. Was the democratic party leadership (et.al) to accuse congressional republicans of extending aid and comfort to a foreign enemy- moreover, one that attacked the United states as surely as did Japan on December 7th- Americans might be initially incredulous, but not for long, and for one simple reason: that’s exactly what congressional republicans are now in the process of doing (I sometimes forget what is glaringly obvious to me might not be to other people).

  23. 23.

    Baud

    January 26, 2018 at 9:15 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Isn’t that everyone’s natural state?

  24. 24.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    January 26, 2018 at 9:16 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:
    I didn’t write that btw.

  25. 25.

    Duane

    January 26, 2018 at 9:16 pm

    @Baud: We’ll, at least your fashion sense won’t offend.

  26. 26.

    Zinsky

    January 26, 2018 at 9:18 pm

    Some Kind of Wonderful – Grand Funk Railroad

    President Doorknob should have been impeached, if not hanged for treason, months ago. This latest allegation, that the Mango Mussolini had openly encouraged the smearing of career law enforcement executives, argues strongly for the gas chamber or the electric chair.

  27. 27.

    Roger Moore

    January 26, 2018 at 9:20 pm

    @Baud:

    You’ll never catch me committing a clothing faux pas when I’m president.

    Is this because you’re going to be the first nudist president?

  28. 28.

    Major Major Major Major

    January 26, 2018 at 9:20 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I didn’t think you did.

  29. 29.

    SFAW

    January 26, 2018 at 9:20 pm

    @lollipopguild:

    Trump could have ordered the CIA to kill Comey and/or Mueller and his supporters would have cheered and applauded.

    And Paulie “Smarmy Traitor” Ryan would say “He’s still new at this.”
    And Mitch McConnell’s wattles would give him a pass, too.

  30. 30.

    JPL

    January 26, 2018 at 9:21 pm

    @Roger Moore: It’s called a birthday suit.

  31. 31.

    WaterGirl

    January 26, 2018 at 9:21 pm

    @Doug up top:

    I agree that the future is all about November. But I am really sick of all the people who are declaring that nothing is going to happen, regardless of what evidence Mueller produces.

    It seems like BJ isn’t a tenth as busy as it used to be, and I’m willing to bet that part of it is all the doom and gloom. Trump sucks, absolutely, but all these declarations that nothing is going to happen are not helping. No one can see the future, but I don’t think Mueller is playing around.

  32. 32.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    January 26, 2018 at 9:23 pm

    @FlyingToaster:

    So how exactly can a president be put under duress?

    For my purposes? Threatening to rip the president’s head from his shoulders if he doesn’t do what you say, for starters. And that Secret Service detail won’t do any good if the assailant is bullet-proof.

  33. 33.

    JPL

    January 26, 2018 at 9:23 pm

    It appears that Melania was called back to the White House. She only was able to spend one night at Mar-a lago and returned to the White House this evening to welcome her hubby with open arms. sad
    Trump is probably holding her immigration papers as hostage.

  34. 34.

    Bobby Thomson

    January 26, 2018 at 9:24 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: it’s not duress if he wanted to do it anyway.

  35. 35.

    SFAW

    January 26, 2018 at 9:27 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    And what do YOU anticipate happening, assuming — not unreasonably — that Mueller comes back with a report of Trump’s obstruction of justice, plus various money-laundering particulars? (I did not say “indictments,” because I have no idea whether that is viable [from a legalistic point of view, not whether indictment of a sitting President is what the evidence demands].)

  36. 36.

    Bobby Thomson

    January 26, 2018 at 9:27 pm

    @WaterGirl: you’re going to win the Powerball.

  37. 37.

    NotMax

    January 26, 2018 at 9:27 pm

    @JPL

    In summertime, can double for President Baud as a tan suit.

  38. 38.

    B.B.A.

    January 26, 2018 at 9:29 pm

    @WaterGirl: If you never expect anything good to happen, it’s always a pleasant surprise when it does.

  39. 39.

    WaterGirl

    January 26, 2018 at 9:29 pm

    @Bobby Thomson: I can’t decide whether you are mocking me or just trying to be funny.

  40. 40.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 26, 2018 at 9:30 pm

    I was trying to remember who the GOP primary candidate was who stood up and answered a question no one was asking by announcing– to an empty press conference IIRC– he was not having an affair: Gary Bauer

    An affair with Trump? Nikki Haley on ‘disgusting’ rumors and her rise to a top foreign policy role

    ETA: twas the mention of Melanoma that made think of it. Says something about the way we live now that this barely even got batted around the twitter machine

  41. 41.

    WaterGirl

    January 26, 2018 at 9:30 pm

    @B.B.A.: That’s a terrible way to go through life.

  42. 42.

    Roger Moore

    January 26, 2018 at 9:32 pm

    @JPL:
    A birthday suit is an automatic faux pas at any official occasion.

  43. 43.

    Roger Moore

    January 26, 2018 at 9:33 pm

    @JPL:

    She only was able to spend one night at Mar-a lago and returned to the White House this evening to welcome her hubby with open arms.

    And closed legs.

  44. 44.

    schrodingers_cat

    January 26, 2018 at 9:35 pm

    @WaterGirl: FWIW I am with you. I have expressed similar opinions before and got shouted down. Apparently they are strategizing about what to do. To me it seems like navel gazing and predicting an R win, no matter what.

  45. 45.

    WaterGirl

    January 26, 2018 at 9:36 pm

    @SFAW:

    And what do YOU anticipate happening, assuming — not unreasonably — that Mueller comes back with a report of Trump’s obstruction of justice, plus various money-laundering particulars? (I did not say “indictments,” because I have no idea whether that is viable [from a legalistic point of view, not whether indictment of a sitting President is what the evidence demands].)

    I think if Trump refuses to talk to Mueller, I think trump will be issued a subpoena to testify before the grand jury and will be compelled to do so, even if he thinks he can refuse.

    I think Mueller is probably amassing such a quantity of proof on Trump and Trumps team (before the election, during the transition and while in office) and on Trump as a businessman that either he will be impeached or indicted.

    The Republicans won’t like it, but they may be forced into it.

    I also think we have to fight like hell for every seat in November and then we can’t have any of this “we have to look forward, not backwards” bullshit.

    You may now commence calling me crazy, or a wild-eyed optimist, but I think Donald Trump is about to run into a brick wall and he’s not going to like it.

  46. 46.

    Steve in the ATL

    January 26, 2018 at 9:36 pm

    I’m off to a tacos-and-tequila party. Front pagers, please delete any of my posts from 8 pm to midnight PST. TIA.

  47. 47.

    Roger Moore

    January 26, 2018 at 9:38 pm

    @SFAW:
    My feeling is that Mueller should get the indictments and leave them sealed. If Congress moves on impeachment, he can leave them sealed until after he’s thrown out of office and then try him and put him in prison for the rest of his life. If Congress sits with its thumb up its ass, he can unseal them and force Trump to argue why he shouldn’t have to stand trial. It’s not a settled Constitutional issue, and this would give a strong justification for litigating it.

  48. 48.

    Major Major Major Major

    January 26, 2018 at 9:39 pm

    @WaterGirl: I like the way you think! Team WaterGirl ??

    @Steve in the ATL: oof, enjoy!

  49. 49.

    Starfish

    January 26, 2018 at 9:44 pm

    Of all the lefty orgs that I have joined, Swing Left has been one of the ones that I have not been all that impressed by. They have some information on the swing districts, but I never managed to join a functional Swing Left group. There were too many people who had not been politically involved before not necessarily looking to learn from those who had been. How have other people elsewhere felt about this org?

  50. 50.

    Roger Moore

    January 26, 2018 at 9:44 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    A Trump/Haley affair is completely implausible. No way would Trump go for anyone but a blonde.

  51. 51.

    Steeplejack

    January 26, 2018 at 9:47 pm

    @Baud:

    Talk about “Be careful what you wish for . . .”

  52. 52.

    WaterGirl

    January 26, 2018 at 9:48 pm

    @Roger Moore: Agree with every word you wrote.

  53. 53.

    Shalimar

    January 26, 2018 at 9:51 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Puppetman in the first 5-6 Wildcards books (edited by George R.R. Martin), though he was one of the villains rather than a protagonist. A U.S. Senator with the power to control minds who eventually ran for president.

  54. 54.

    Major Major Major Major

    January 26, 2018 at 9:53 pm

    @Shalimar: isn’t there a Stephen King book like that too?

  55. 55.

    randy khan

    January 26, 2018 at 9:55 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:

    I wouldn’t expect anything on that. It’s not like it’s ever come up before, and U.S. courts tend not to decide things that aren’t in front of them.

  56. 56.

    SFAW

    January 26, 2018 at 9:55 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Wasn’t asking about Shitgibbon testifying before Mueller, don’t care about the lengths Mueller’s going to during the course of his job. That’s more or less immaterial. It’s pretty clear that he’s been detailed, methodical, highly focused, and it sure as shit looks like there would be enough to indict a private citizen for some serious shit.
    The “win as many seats as we can” is a given, as is (I hope) killing the “look forward, not backward” stupidity.

    I asked about Mueller indicting (assuming that’s even possible) a sitting President. It seems to be a point of contention whether a sitting President can be indicted. I have no idea, but I’m hoping he can. But, if he can’t, then the only remedy appears to be impeachment. And while it’s lovely to daydream about that possibility, nothing Paul Ryan has done so far gives any indication that he would consider it. With all the cover and excuses he’s given for Shitgibbon, the idea of “but they may be forced into it.” is intriguing, but it’s tough to conceive of what it would take. If Shitgibbon ordered his minions to execute Crooked Hillary, would that finally be enough for ZEGS to stop being a fucking traitor? Probably. What about a bill of attainder? I am less certain, considering That Fucking Traitor Paul Ryan is still allowing Devin “Another Fucking Traitor” Nunes to pull his shit.

    Look, I would love to see the Rethugs suddenly come to their senses, but no one has lost money overestimating the Rethugs’ cravenness.

    After January, 2019, however — POPCORN FOR EVERYONE!

  57. 57.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 26, 2018 at 9:56 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: The Dead Zone?

  58. 58.

    Duane

    January 26, 2018 at 9:58 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: Try to get out with all your body parts!

  59. 59.

    SFAW

    January 26, 2018 at 9:59 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    I appreciate your thoughtful comment (yes, I mean it), and I agree with WaterGirl’s comment. Thanks!

  60. 60.

    Major Major Major Major

    January 26, 2018 at 10:00 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: ah yeah, that’s the one I was misremembering!

  61. 61.

    WaterGirl

    January 26, 2018 at 10:07 pm

    @SFAW: Sorry, I was trying to answer your question but it seems I missed the mark.

    I have confidence that Mueller won’t say “I guess the republicans aren’t going to do anything about this. Oh well.”

    So I will outsource to Roger Moore:

    My feeling is that Mueller should get the indictments and leave them sealed. If Congress moves on impeachment, he can leave them sealed until after he’s thrown out of office and then try him and put him in prison for the rest of his life. If Congress sits with its thumb up its ass, he can unseal them and force Trump to argue why he shouldn’t have to stand trial. It’s not a settled Constitutional issue, and this would give a strong justification for litigating it.

  62. 62.

    trnc

    January 26, 2018 at 10:16 pm

    To borrow somewhat from Poet Laureate Jeff Foxworthy, “If obvious signs of obstruction from your party’s leader don’t bother you, you might be complicit.”

  63. 63.

    FlipYrWhig

    January 26, 2018 at 10:25 pm

    @Roger Moore: ISTM the likeliest prospects are Hicks and Conway.

  64. 64.

    Gin & Tonic

    January 26, 2018 at 10:33 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: Can’t be Conway. She’s about 100 years too old for him.

  65. 65.

    SFAW

    January 26, 2018 at 10:39 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    I have confidence that Mueller won’t say “I guess the republicans aren’t going to do anything about this. Oh well.”

    Not the issue, either. But: you and I are in agreement re: Roger’s comment.

  66. 66.

    Citizen Alan

    January 27, 2018 at 12:24 am

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:

    It’s pretty much Death Note, I’d say.

  67. 67.

    charon

    January 27, 2018 at 10:27 am

    DOJ guidelines say do not indict a sitting President, so Mueller will not.

  68. 68.

    WaterGirl

    January 27, 2018 at 11:35 am

    @charon: From what I’ve read, it’s not entirely clear in either direction.

  69. 69.

    Raoul

    January 27, 2018 at 2:18 pm

    @Baud: I suppose I’m late to watching The Crown compared to a number of Juicers. But I have been delighted to see Prince Philip’s (aka Matt Smith’s) natural state in bed on two different occasions. A prince/prince consort sleeping in the buff. Charming!

  70. 70.

    J R in WV

    January 27, 2018 at 7:13 pm

    @charon:

    “DOJ guidelines say do not indict a sitting President, so Mueller will not.”

    DOJ guidelines, hell, the law and the constitution define what is legal and what is not, and Trump is way over on the not legal side by his own admissions on live TV. Can you spell Emoluments? What about Money Laundering? Conspiracy to commit Money Laundering? Misprison of a felony?

    I suspect the nature and volume of illegality will lead Mueller to have sealed indictments produced by a Grand Jury, and to unseal them at the proper time. Hope, anyway.

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