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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Can I get a witness?

Can I get a witness?

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How is this any different than the time Obama wore a tan suit and put his feet up on the desk?

President Donald Trump pressed senior aides last June to devise and carry out a campaign to discredit senior FBI officials after learning that those specific employees were likely to be witnesses against him as part of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation, according to two people directly familiar with the matter.

There’s zero chance that Trump will impeached in this Congress and zero chance that anything protecting Mueller will get through the House in this Congress. It’s all about November. Let’s raise some more money for Swing Left, which is helping to target 70 House Republican seats.

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  2. 2.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    Google wasn’t much help with this question: is a presidential signature on a bill or executive order still legal if it was signed under duress?

  3. 3.

    lollipopguild

    Trump could have ordered the CIA to kill Comey and/or Mueller and his supporters would have cheered and applauded.

  6. 6.

    B.B.A.

    @lollipopguild: Fortunately, he hasn’t got the nerve to actually do this. If we ever get a president with the same brainwashed mass following who’s ruthless enough to take advantage of it, there will be trouble indeed.

  9. 9.

    NotMax

    Three terms we’re bound to become more familiar with as Mueller progresses:

    1) the charge of misprision of a felony
    2) 18 U.S. Code § 1519

    Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

    3) 18 U.S. Code § 1513

    [section 2] (e) Whoever knowingly, with the intent to retaliate, takes any action harmful to any person, including interference with the lawful employment or livelihood of any person, for providing to a law enforcement officer any truthful information relating to the commission or possible commission of any Federal offense, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.
    (f) Whoever conspires to commit any offense under this section shall be subject to the same penalties as those prescribed for the offense the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.

  10. 10.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @B.B.A.:
    Look up “For All Time” on alternatehistory.net. The US gets so fucked up that Jim Jones becomes President in the 70s.

  12. 12.

    Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)

    PSA re annoying autoplay ads:

    Google is releasing a new version of Chrome this week and it includes a number of new features, such as an improved ad blocker and Spectre mitigations. The best new feature in Chrome 64 is the ability to permanently mute websites that autoplay videos. This feature was teased for several months, but now it’s finally here. The Independent reports:
    To mute a site that automatically plays videos, users will need click the View Site Information symbol, which may look like a green padlock, on the left-hand edge of the omnibar — the address bar combined with the Google search box. Then they will need to select Sound. Once the website is muted, it will not automatically play videos with sound again until you unmute it.

  13. 13.

    NotMax

    @Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe)

    As the only requirement is a signature, with no conditions of circumstance specified, the answer is yes. Plus what does or does not constitute duress can be a rather fluid definition.

    Post-signing remedies could include a subsequent exec order of repeal or legislation doing the same.

  16. 16.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Just a barebones idea. Probably been done before. The protag gets super powers and pretends to be a messiah-like figure and amasses a worldwide following. The real trouble comes about when he starts murdering people who get his way and he feels deserve to die. This includes politicians and other world leaders he deems evil.

  17. 17.

    FlyingToaster

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: NotMax has already hit the salient points, but I’ll reiterate the kicker:

    Define duress.

    “It’ll be politically uncomfortable if I don’t” isn’t duress.
    “Putin will stop loving me” isn’t duress.
    “[donor] will stop giving me money” isn’t duress.

    The Secret Service detail exists to insulate the president from any kind of physical duress.

    So how exactly can a president be put under duress?

    Note: A president with gonads simply vetoes the damn bill, when it gets to the Oval Office. One without makes everyone wait for the 10-day pocket veto and it goes into law anyway.

  21. 21.

    SFAW

    How is this any different than the time Obama wore a tan suit and put his feet up on the desk?

    White makes right? Orange is the new Black (but it’s still better)? But her e-mails? Because “shut up”?

    Anybody? BMueller? BMueller? BMueller?

  22. 22.

    No Drought No More

    “There’s zero chance that Trump will impeached in this Congress and zero chance that anything protecting Mueller will get through the House in this Congress”.

    You’re wrong. Was the democratic party leadership (et.al) to accuse congressional republicans of extending aid and comfort to a foreign enemy- moreover, one that attacked the United states as surely as did Japan on December 7th- Americans might be initially incredulous, but not for long, and for one simple reason: that’s exactly what congressional republicans are now in the process of doing (I sometimes forget what is glaringly obvious to me might not be to other people).

  26. 26.

    Zinsky

    Some Kind of Wonderful – Grand Funk Railroad

    President Doorknob should have been impeached, if not hanged for treason, months ago. This latest allegation, that the Mango Mussolini had openly encouraged the smearing of career law enforcement executives, argues strongly for the gas chamber or the electric chair.

  27. 27.

    Roger Moore

    @Baud:

    You’ll never catch me committing a clothing faux pas when I’m president.

    Is this because you’re going to be the first nudist president?

  29. 29.

    SFAW

    @lollipopguild:

    Trump could have ordered the CIA to kill Comey and/or Mueller and his supporters would have cheered and applauded.

    And Paulie “Smarmy Traitor” Ryan would say “He’s still new at this.”
    And Mitch McConnell’s wattles would give him a pass, too.

  31. 31.

    WaterGirl

    @Doug up top:

    I agree that the future is all about November. But I am really sick of all the people who are declaring that nothing is going to happen, regardless of what evidence Mueller produces.

    It seems like BJ isn’t a tenth as busy as it used to be, and I’m willing to bet that part of it is all the doom and gloom. Trump sucks, absolutely, but all these declarations that nothing is going to happen are not helping. No one can see the future, but I don’t think Mueller is playing around.

  32. 32.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @FlyingToaster:

    So how exactly can a president be put under duress?

    For my purposes? Threatening to rip the president’s head from his shoulders if he doesn’t do what you say, for starters. And that Secret Service detail won’t do any good if the assailant is bullet-proof.

  33. 33.

    JPL

    It appears that Melania was called back to the White House. She only was able to spend one night at Mar-a lago and returned to the White House this evening to welcome her hubby with open arms. sad
    Trump is probably holding her immigration papers as hostage.

  35. 35.

    SFAW

    @WaterGirl:

    And what do YOU anticipate happening, assuming — not unreasonably — that Mueller comes back with a report of Trump’s obstruction of justice, plus various money-laundering particulars? (I did not say “indictments,” because I have no idea whether that is viable [from a legalistic point of view, not whether indictment of a sitting President is what the evidence demands].)

  40. 40.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I was trying to remember who the GOP primary candidate was who stood up and answered a question no one was asking by announcing– to an empty press conference IIRC– he was not having an affair: Gary Bauer

    An affair with Trump? Nikki Haley on ‘disgusting’ rumors and her rise to a top foreign policy role

    ETA: twas the mention of Melanoma that made think of it. Says something about the way we live now that this barely even got batted around the twitter machine

  43. 43.

    Roger Moore

    @JPL:

    She only was able to spend one night at Mar-a lago and returned to the White House this evening to welcome her hubby with open arms.

    And closed legs.

  44. 44.

    schrodingers_cat

    @WaterGirl: FWIW I am with you. I have expressed similar opinions before and got shouted down. Apparently they are strategizing about what to do. To me it seems like navel gazing and predicting an R win, no matter what.

  45. 45.

    WaterGirl

    @SFAW:

    And what do YOU anticipate happening, assuming — not unreasonably — that Mueller comes back with a report of Trump’s obstruction of justice, plus various money-laundering particulars? (I did not say “indictments,” because I have no idea whether that is viable [from a legalistic point of view, not whether indictment of a sitting President is what the evidence demands].)

    I think if Trump refuses to talk to Mueller, I think trump will be issued a subpoena to testify before the grand jury and will be compelled to do so, even if he thinks he can refuse.

    I think Mueller is probably amassing such a quantity of proof on Trump and Trumps team (before the election, during the transition and while in office) and on Trump as a businessman that either he will be impeached or indicted.

    The Republicans won’t like it, but they may be forced into it.

    I also think we have to fight like hell for every seat in November and then we can’t have any of this “we have to look forward, not backwards” bullshit.

    You may now commence calling me crazy, or a wild-eyed optimist, but I think Donald Trump is about to run into a brick wall and he’s not going to like it.

  46. 46.

    Steve in the ATL

    I’m off to a tacos-and-tequila party. Front pagers, please delete any of my posts from 8 pm to midnight PST. TIA.

  47. 47.

    Roger Moore

    @SFAW:
    My feeling is that Mueller should get the indictments and leave them sealed. If Congress moves on impeachment, he can leave them sealed until after he’s thrown out of office and then try him and put him in prison for the rest of his life. If Congress sits with its thumb up its ass, he can unseal them and force Trump to argue why he shouldn’t have to stand trial. It’s not a settled Constitutional issue, and this would give a strong justification for litigating it.

  49. 49.

    Starfish

    Of all the lefty orgs that I have joined, Swing Left has been one of the ones that I have not been all that impressed by. They have some information on the swing districts, but I never managed to join a functional Swing Left group. There were too many people who had not been politically involved before not necessarily looking to learn from those who had been. How have other people elsewhere felt about this org?

  56. 56.

    SFAW

    @WaterGirl:

    Wasn’t asking about Shitgibbon testifying before Mueller, don’t care about the lengths Mueller’s going to during the course of his job. That’s more or less immaterial. It’s pretty clear that he’s been detailed, methodical, highly focused, and it sure as shit looks like there would be enough to indict a private citizen for some serious shit.
    The “win as many seats as we can” is a given, as is (I hope) killing the “look forward, not backward” stupidity.

    I asked about Mueller indicting (assuming that’s even possible) a sitting President. It seems to be a point of contention whether a sitting President can be indicted. I have no idea, but I’m hoping he can. But, if he can’t, then the only remedy appears to be impeachment. And while it’s lovely to daydream about that possibility, nothing Paul Ryan has done so far gives any indication that he would consider it. With all the cover and excuses he’s given for Shitgibbon, the idea of “but they may be forced into it.” is intriguing, but it’s tough to conceive of what it would take. If Shitgibbon ordered his minions to execute Crooked Hillary, would that finally be enough for ZEGS to stop being a fucking traitor? Probably. What about a bill of attainder? I am less certain, considering That Fucking Traitor Paul Ryan is still allowing Devin “Another Fucking Traitor” Nunes to pull his shit.

    Look, I would love to see the Rethugs suddenly come to their senses, but no one has lost money overestimating the Rethugs’ cravenness.

    After January, 2019, however — POPCORN FOR EVERYONE!

  61. 61.

    WaterGirl

    @SFAW: Sorry, I was trying to answer your question but it seems I missed the mark.

    I have confidence that Mueller won’t say “I guess the republicans aren’t going to do anything about this. Oh well.”

    So I will outsource to Roger Moore:

    My feeling is that Mueller should get the indictments and leave them sealed. If Congress moves on impeachment, he can leave them sealed until after he’s thrown out of office and then try him and put him in prison for the rest of his life. If Congress sits with its thumb up its ass, he can unseal them and force Trump to argue why he shouldn’t have to stand trial. It’s not a settled Constitutional issue, and this would give a strong justification for litigating it.

  62. 62.

    trnc

    To borrow somewhat from Poet Laureate Jeff Foxworthy, “If obvious signs of obstruction from your party’s leader don’t bother you, you might be complicit.”

  65. 65.

    SFAW

    @WaterGirl:

    I have confidence that Mueller won’t say “I guess the republicans aren’t going to do anything about this. Oh well.”

    Not the issue, either. But: you and I are in agreement re: Roger’s comment.

  69. 69.

    Raoul

    @Baud: I suppose I’m late to watching The Crown compared to a number of Juicers. But I have been delighted to see Prince Philip’s (aka Matt Smith’s) natural state in bed on two different occasions. A prince/prince consort sleeping in the buff. Charming!

  70. 70.

    J R in WV

    @charon:

    “DOJ guidelines say do not indict a sitting President, so Mueller will not.”

    DOJ guidelines, hell, the law and the constitution define what is legal and what is not, and Trump is way over on the not legal side by his own admissions on live TV. Can you spell Emoluments? What about Money Laundering? Conspiracy to commit Money Laundering? Misprison of a felony?

    I suspect the nature and volume of illegality will lead Mueller to have sealed indictments produced by a Grand Jury, and to unseal them at the proper time. Hope, anyway.

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