Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

This blog will pay for itself.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

You cannot shame the shameless.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

Their freedom requires your slavery.

I was promised a recession.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

You can’t love your country only when you win.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Emerging GOP Argument Open Thread: Everyone Is Guilty, So Nobody Is Responsible!

Emerging GOP Argument Open Thread: Everyone Is Guilty, So Nobody Is Responsible!

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Nay, nay!, cries the Wall Street Journal…


How can you say we robbed that bank when it turns out the vault was empty?…

Reader Interactions

230Comments

  1. 1.

    TenguPhule

    Everyone Is Guilty, So Nobody Is Responsible!

    Ironically, this was exactly the Army’s findings on the Niger clusterfuck Trump ordered.

  2. 2.

    TenguPhule

    Brian Schatz
    ✔
    @brianschatz
    It is super weird and unrelated to any recent revelations that the price of prescription medicine is skyrocketing and that the FCC just eliminated net neutrality.

    Shade thrown so wide that its blotting out the sun.

  3. 3.

    Roger Moore

    If most of the money going to Essential Consultants LLC wound up in Michael Cohen’s pockets, I’ll be very surprised. All he got was an agent’s fee, with the rest going straight to Trump.

  6. 6.

    TenguPhule

    @Roger Moore:

    If most of the money going to Essential Consultants LLC wound up in Michael Cohen’s pockets, I’ll be very surprised.

    Would Michael Cohen be stupid enough to lie to Trump about the amount of the bribes in order to pocket more for himself?

  7. 7.

    Yutsano

    Adam is calling what I am: Dolt45 is so far underwater that if one more asset fails he’s dead flat broke.

  8. 8.

    TenguPhule

    @Yutsano: Jared for sure, but Trump doesn’t actually have that many hard assets in his own name. The theme has always been about “branding”, getting suckers to pay for leasing his name.

    Which begs the question of where the fuck is all that money going? Even accounting for the Russian laundering sloshing around, there’s still those petty millions he and his spawn have been stealing. Where did it wander off to?

  9. 9.

    Mary G

    It’s Scott Dworkin, so I take this with a grain, no a boulder, of salt, but oh, if this is true:

    BREAKING: A GOP Hill staffer just told me she was instructed today to keep her distance from Devin Nunes, his staff and the GOP House Intel Cmte staff, because it looks like they are targets "of multiple ongoing investigations by Special Counsel Mueller's office/FBI and the DoJ."— Scott Dworkin (@funder) May 10, 2018

    I can fully believe Nunes is both stupid enough and corrupt enough to commit any number of crimes, but I do not believe that Mueller and the FBI are running around telling people they are investigating them.

  11. 11.

    oatler.

    Someone please tell me bloody revolution isn’t going to be the ultimate result. I’d been screaming revolution since Nixon but now I’m old and disabled and gassy. OK, I was gassy when I was young but YOU KNOW

  13. 13.

    Platonailedit

    With all this 24×7 corruption, does us of a qualify as one of those shithole countries?

  14. 14.

    Ruckus

    @Yutsano:
    This has been my take for years.
    I’m pretty sure that his tax returns would show that he’s got a few mill worth of assets at best and most/all of that is spoken for. There really isn’t much he’s ever done that’s made money. And a lot that has gone bust. And he borrowed a lot with that worth 10 billion bullshit, which is why he’s so far under water and no close to reputable bank (is there such a thing?) will even talk to him.

  16. 16.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Roger Moore: Does the President strike you as the kind of boss that doesn’t expect not just a cut, but that the cut be almost all of the take?

  17. 17.

    efgoldman

    Everyone Is Guilty, So Nobody Is Responsible!

    The maladministration as middle school.
    Except middle school kids are smarter.

    @oatler.:

    please tell me bloody revolution isn’t going to be the ultimate result.

    bloody revolution isn’t going to be the ultimate result
    It just isn’t.
    There aren’t enough of the kkkeyboard kkkomandos and the mouth breather ammosexuals.
    From our side? An armed revolution? Don’t call me Shirley

  19. 19.

    Ruckus

    @TenguPhule:

    Where did it wander off to?

    It didn’t wander, he “invested” it in shit. Like his attorney Cohen, with his NYC taxi medallions that have lost about $800,000 each. He paid at the top of the price curve for every thing and lost a lot when it all devalued. Like those gambling establishments that owning and running one properly are like printing money. He went bankrupt. He’s not the only moron to lose money in that business over the years but he’s done that with most everything he owns.

  20. 20.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mary G: Given the attempt to uncover the covered source that DOJ is trying to protect, this would not surprise me. It was reported several months ago that the GOP intel committee staff is under investigation for leaking and/or mishandling classified information. I covered that in a post a while back.

    My guess is they’ve been running a counterintelligence sunflower op. The material that Congressman Nunes and/or his staff is given or shown is modified in syntax and/or grammar from the master documents and the documents shown/given to the ranking member, the Democrats on the committee, and the Democratic intel committee staff. This way if there’s a leak, it is easy to see if the syntax and/or grammar matches the version provided to Nunes and his people and determine if they’re the source of the leak.

  21. 21.

    TenguPhule

    @Ruckus:

    . And he borrowed a lot with that worth 10 billion bullshit

    From who? No US bank has lent him money since the 1990s.

  24. 24.

    TenguPhule

    @Ruckus:

    It didn’t wander, he “invested” it in shit.

    He says he invests. Then never actually pays out. That’s been a pattern.

  26. 26.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    as the kind of boss that doesn’t expect not just a cut, but that the cut be almost all of the take?

    Cue Bugs:

    One for me and one for you

    Two for me and one, two for you.

    Eh, what about me boss?

    And me boss?

    And me?

  27. 27.

    efgoldman

    @Adam L Silverman:

    it is easy to see if the syntax and/or grammar matches the version provided to Nunes and his people and determine if they’re the source of the leak.

    We are fortunate in our enemies. The klown Nunes is so obvious, and so incompetent, that he left credibility at the train station many months ago. And he clearly hired staff just. like. him.

  28. 28.

    TenguPhule

    @B.B.A.:

    What, you think the ur-1980s douchebag doesn’t snort cocaine?

    I have trouble believing he’d actually pay for it.

  29. 29.

    Spc123

    @Mary G: Yeah, definitely hearsay but… Nunes has certainly behaved in a way that warrants a close look. Plus, there is some shady actions with Portugal/Azores.

  31. 31.

    Adam L Silverman

    @efgoldman:

    When Tulare and the 22nd Congressional District of California sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing stupidity. They’re bringing conspiracy against the United States. They’re assets of a hostile foreign power. And some, I assume, are good people.

  34. 34.

    Mary G

    Hoocoodanode?

    BREAKING: Trump's drug pricing plan is out. I obtained a copy. Novartis will be happy. 1/ pic.twitter.com/0bfC5EjeyJ— Topher Spiro (@TopherSpiro) May 11, 2018

    And for the umpteenth time since Medicare Part D was enacted, the government is still not going to negotiate with drug companies on prices. Instead, the administration says they will make foreign countries pay more for drugs through tariffs and somehow the costs to Americans will go down, MAGA! This makes me so tired.

  36. 36.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    Gas at some stations where I live (NE Ohio) is at $2.85/gal. It was only 2.20 something a few weeks ago. Thanks Trump and Netanyahu!

  37. 37.

    TenguPhule

    @Mary G:

    Instead, the administration says they will make foreign countries pay more for drugs through tariffs

    Has anyone explained to these fine folks how exactly tariffs work? And that these other countries have their own drug companies that make the exact same thing?

  40. 40.

    jl

    Do we “qualify as one of those shithole countries?”

    But the most terrific high-class shithole country, with the bet fake gold leaf sprayed all over everything. Everyone is saying that.

  41. 41.

    B.B.A.

    @clay: I think they’re like the Koreas, technically at war even when no bombs are being dropped. Certainly there’s no treaty, if there was it’d have handled Israel’s illegal occupation of the Golan (which, lest anyone forget, is part of Syria).

  44. 44.

    Chris

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Haven’t people leaner long ago that this is a thing and that it’s the reason why you should always extensively rewrite the stuff before you leak it in order to protect your source? My understanding was that this is a very old trick.

  45. 45.

    Peale

    @Baud: I believe they either mean they are going to slap export duties on our drugs shipped overseas, in which case say goodbye to drug manufacturing in this country. Or they’re going to put tariffs on imports, in which case say hello to $100 copays on generics.

  48. 48.

    Ken

    @Chris: Even high school students know they have to rephrase, because teachers now run essays through plagiarism-detection software.

  50. 50.

    Mary G

    Winning!

    Instead of addressing Medicare's prescription drug prices head on, it appears Trump may be proposing to ration coverage of drugs. The details here will matter. 3/— Topher Spiro (@TopherSpiro) May 11, 2018

    Trump is proposing to *increase* drug prices abroad, probably through trade deals. This is the biggest item on Big Pharma's wish list! How the heck is this going to lower drug prices in this country??? 4/— Topher Spiro (@TopherSpiro) May 11, 2018

  53. 53.

    Peale

    @Baud: lol. That’s a good one. We couldn’t even get some of our own senators to care about the courts enough to give up their blue slips.

  54. 54.

    jl

    @Adam L Silverman: ” No, nor do I intend to. ”
    Snob. You just can’t handle the wonders of the Central Valley.
    Fresno has one of the nation’s outstanding mid-size zoos, it’s won many awards. And many many spacious air conditioned shopping centers that go for literally miles on end. The homes on the Van Ness Extension are some of the the most impressive McMansioins in the whole of our, these great, United States.

  57. 57.

    Peale

    @Mary G: I get it. If drugs sold in Europe are more expensive, the pharma companies will pass their windfall onto consumers.

  59. 59.

    some guy

    Middle Eastern EthnoNationalist apartheid state attacks neighboring country. Again.

  61. 61.

    Platonailedit

    Michael Cohen made $100,000 a month over the course of a year from Novartis.

    Daily Beast reports that actual lobbyists hired by Novartis make less than $12,000 a month.

    That's 1/8 of what it paid Cohen for what, the company says, was exactly zero work.

    https://t.co/5CcTL1nsCE— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) May 10, 2018

  62. 62.

    Mary G

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Orange County is worse: $3.81 in Irvine today. I had to take my Subaru in for an airbag recall today and they comped me an Enterprise rent a car. It’s gone up so fast that if I don’t refill the tank I’ll save money, because Enterprise is at $3.61.

  63. 63.

    jl

    @Mary G: Probably Big Pharma stories about how the US is subsidizing R&D costs for drugs that are cheaper around the world. If that was ever true, I think it’s very doubtful now. And to the extent it is true (not very), good solutions don’t include requiring the rest of the world to ‘top up’ to US prices.

    And now that the US market and licensing system for generics seems to be broken, with stories about multi-thousand dollar and percent mark ups for old, established and previously very cheap generic simple molecule drugs, I don’t see how any countries will be friendly to the idea. Countries from Brazil, to India to Kenya will see it as an attack on their domestic manufacturing industries.

  64. 64.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Mary G: Remember, that’s Costco’s price; everybody else is about 20 cents more/gallon. I went out to the coast(near Pt. Mugu) for Milky Way shooting this morning and that was about the price I saw in Camarillo.

  68. 68.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    @TenguPhule: @?BillinGlendaleCA:
    @Mary G:

    It’s not so bad since I have a rewards card with the supermarket chain I work for. I can save $0.10/gal with every $50 I spend at their gas stations. The fuelperks are good for 60 days.

  69. 69.

    jl

    @Baud: In the Baud 2020! world, isn’t ‘fine ass’ and ‘fat ass’ the same thing? I thought it was a plank in your platform. You promised to make a law on it.

    Edit: you said it would be a litmus test for your judicial nominations. Maybe everyone was too drunk at that rally to remember?

  70. 70.

    burnspbesq

    @Peale:

    U.S. based drug companies have been manufacturing the stuff they sell outside the U.S. in Ireland and Switzerland for decades. Good luck slapping tariffs on those shipments, Trump.

  72. 72.

    Baud

    @jl:

    Edit: you said it would be a litmus test for your judicial nominations.

    No, that was dumbass.

  73. 73.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Chris: It is. First time I saw it was in a Tom Clancy novel when I was an undergraduate. He used it as a plot device in Red Storm Rising. It is how they caught a member of Congress for leaking classified information. From all reports, Nunes doesn’t actually read anything. So…

  77. 77.

    Jeffro

    Lost in all this is that a company would never pay an “Obama whisperer” (or multiple ones) anything to try and sway the PBO administration, because a) the guy believed in facts and good policy, not grift, and b) therefore ran one of the most ethical, scandal-free administrations in modern times if not all of American history.

    Care to point that out, WaPo or NYT?

  78. 78.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    Question: As an American, can I legally own a US passport and a Canadian one, even if I don’t have dual citizenship. My googling indicates yes, but the reasons given for doing so don’t match up with mine.

  79. 79.

    Peale

    @burnspbesq: our trade deficit with Ireland is huge and they’re not sending their best. But I doubt he’s going to accuse the Irish of cheating and demand they give up their children.

  80. 80.

    dmsilev

    @Jeffro: According to the fine folks over at Lawyers, Guns, & Money, a NYT reporter tweeted that this was just a (slightly) dirtier version of what Hillary Clinton would inevitably have been like as President.

    Apparently Clinton Derangement Syndrome remains untreatable.

  81. 81.

    Peale

    @Jeffro: they should have. If I recall, the big complaint from ceos interviewed in Bloomberg was always the uncertainty. Uncertainty. Uncertainty. Now they have the most erratic man possible in the office and they don’t complain about that. Probably because they didn’t hire Obama whisperers.

  83. 83.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Peale:

    But I doubt he’s going to accuse the Irish of cheating and demand they give up their children.

    Only to Chief Justice Roberts…

  84. 84.

    mai naem mobile

    @Yutsano: I agree. Dolt45 would be barely doing okay if he was lIving off his trust alone(IIRC he gets $6M annually.) He’s got big personal expenses – plane,NYC penthouse, designer clothing for the wife ,private schooling for Barron and Tiffanys college, expensive FLorida housing, private security and no tv show. The golf courses I would bet are losers for the most part. Golf isn’t popular anymore. We’ve had two golf courses within housing developments close down in Phoenix because they’re money losers and the land is a better financial return when it’s used for new housing. the His hotels are probably losers except for DC. The hotel business is a tough business with lots of hotel competition in addition to Airbnb.

  86. 86.

    Jeffro

    @Peale: “uncertainty” is right up there with “economic anxiety” as a bullshit excuse, that’s for…certain.

    @dmsilev: Sure, absolutely, you could see it in her track record of…lifelong public service. Especially compared to Trumpov’s record of…fraud, bankruptcy, and lying as often as he breathes. Apples to apples, right there.

  87. 87.

    dmsilev

    @Peale:

    But I doubt he’s going to accuse the Irish of cheating and demand they give up their children.

    I wonder how hard it would be to maneuver Trump into promoting A Modest Proposal as if it were serious. ‘You’ll go down in history as the man who solved the problem of global hunger! Obama couldn’t do that, but you can.’.

  89. 89.

    Adam L Silverman

    @mai naem mobile: His golf properties in Scotland and Ireland, which he paid for in cash, lose bmillions each year. As does Doral in south Florida. And the Scottish and Irish losses are in the tens of bmillions if I’m remembering the reporting correctly.

  90. 90.

    magurakurin

    @jl:

    isn’t ‘fine ass’ and ‘fat ass’ the same thing? I thought it was a plank in your platform.

    I thought the plank was “gas, grass or ass…no free rides.”

  92. 92.

    oldgold

    As we approach the one year anniversary of Mueller’s investigation, I am getting antsy over the pace of the process.

    I know Watergate rolled out more slowly. But, the circumstances were much different. The world spun much more slowly. One party was not bat sh•t crazy. The matter being investigated posed less of an immediate threat.

    Within the next 10 days or so, Mueller needs to make a big play. Otherwise, the calendar is going to ensnare the investigation.

  94. 94.

    magurakurin

    @chris: In no way is this for sure, but the way I understand it (being an ex-pat, I’ve checked into it a bit) the United States doesn’t officially recognize dual citizenship, but does not prevent one holding multiple passports. Some countries, like Japan, forbid multiple passports outright, so in order to get a Japanese passport I would have to renounce my US citizenship. If I did that, I would lose my US passport. But some countries, like Ireland, allow dual citizenship. In that case a US citizen could accept Irish citizenship and hold two passports. But, the United States, will not official recognize that you are an Irish citizen unless you renounce your US citizenship. So, if any sort of issue arises, you can’t claim, “I’m Irish,” like if you are drafted or commit crimes or don’t want to pay taxes (US citizens are required to file and pay taxes on all income regardless of where it is earned or where they reside.) That’s how I understand it.

  99. 99.

    Jeffro

    @Millard Filmore: nah he meant millions…it’s not really possible to lose billions-with-a-B on golf courses.

    However, if it were…DJT is the man for the job, that’s for sure!

  100. 100.

    Jeffro

    @oldgold: that’s Republican thinking/talking points. They sure as hell had no problem dragging Benghazi out as long as possible so that it would damage HRC in the primaries and general (heck, that one GOP douche in the House said as much). And Comey too.

    Mueller can keep going as long as he wishes, in my opinion. I think he’s going to drop the obstruction referral and several dozen charges on Cohen, Don Jr, and Jared all at once, and before the Fourth of July. But that’s just my guess. If he doesn’t do that and wants to just keep rollin’ on through the midterms, he should.

  101. 101.

    Jeffro

    @B.B.A.: The special counsel’s investigations aren’t there to ‘save us’…they’re there to look into Trumpov-Russia collusion in all its aspects, including any related crimes they uncover along the way.

    Having said that, yes, we do need to ‘save ourselves’. Register some voters. Donate. Write op-eds. Stay fired up! It’s incredibly important that we win the House this November…incredibly important.

  102. 102.

    oldgold

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    The N. Korean summit is June 12. That poses a problem of indicting anyone after Memorial Day. In election years, DOJ policy, unfortunately disregarded in ‘16 with disastrous consequences, discourages filings with political resonance after July 1.

  104. 104.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @oldgold:

    The N. Korean summit is June 12.

    Why would DOJ care about that, there’s always something going on with any President.

    In election years, DOJ policy, unfortunately disregarded in ‘16 with disastrous consequences, discourages filings with political resonance after July 1.

    Trump’s not on the ballot.

  105. 105.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @oldgold: Mueller isn’t and shouldn’t be operating on any kind of political time table. He should do his job and charge and/or report as appropriate. The rest of us should do our jobs and fight. Just saying.

  106. 106.

    oldgold

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Of course the DOJ does and should care about the political calendar. To argue otherwise is silliness.

    And, to argue Trump is not on the ballot is worse than silly.

  108. 108.

    efgoldman

    @Adam L Silverman:

    First time I saw it was in a Tom Clancy novel when I was an undergraduate

    A common plot device in spy novels and movies. I think LeCarre used it at least a couple of times.

  110. 110.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @oldgold:

    Of course the DOJ does and should care about the political calendar. To argue otherwise is silliness.

    So the summit with the DPRK is political, by that standard any President can generate his own full political calendar, that’s silliness.

    I think you’re carrying the prohibition on political resonance a bit too far. But IANAL, so I’ll leave it up to the BJ legal eagles.

  113. 113.

    Chris

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I remember reading about the trick (using different reports and watching for the wording to flush out a mole) in a Tom Clancy novel, but I also remember reading later that “yeah, that would never work, reporters got wise to it a long time ago and know how to avoid the trap.” But I guess politicians never learned that.

  115. 115.

    chris

    @magurakurin: I know. My comment was a slightly snarky way of asking if Goku is a Canadian-American. My newish CDN passport looks like a forger’s nightmare.

  117. 117.

    mai naem mobile

    @Adam L Silverman: I am assuming you mean millions although you could mean billions if the Russians want to launder that much. Most businessmen are not going to screw tradesmen and other vendors if they’re making money in their properties.

  118. 118.

    efgoldman

    @oldgold:

    to argue Trump is not on the ballot is worse than silly.

    Really, Gracie?
    What state(s)?
    What office(s)?
    There’s a reason why they are called “off year” elections.

  119. 119.

    Mnemosyne

    @oldgold:

    Jared Kushner is not an elected official. He is a private citizen. Why should the DOJ refuse to indict a private citizen who has committed crimes just because he’s related by marriage to an elected official?

    I have an aunt who was elected to a local school board. Does that mean that no grand jury could indict me for any crimes between June 1st and November because my being indicted could affect her election?

  122. 122.

    efgoldman

    @oldgold: @oldgold:

    You think it would be just fine for Mueller to indict Kush on June 10th?

    Yup. Saint Swithin’s Day, International Clown Week, International Beer Day (all real).
    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    by that standard any President can generate his own full political calendar, that’s silliness.

    No, not silliness. Fucking-A stupid.

  124. 124.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Mary G: Nunes is getting the files about Mueller’s investigation according to The Hill. Of course, he’ll immediately share them with his buddies in the White House. Sigh.

  128. 128.

    Patricia Kayden

    @oldgold: Mueller can take his sweet time and make sure that his investigation is thorough and detailed. There’s no urgency beyond getting the facts right.

  129. 129.

    Obvious Russian Troll

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?: If you’re a citizen of both countries, sure.

    From my own experience, Canada does not make you give up your US passport when you obtain Canadian citizenship, and you have to specifically renounce your US citizenship (which I don’t recommend unless you’ve really thought that through).

    I know a Canadian who was born while his parents were in grad school in the US. At the border a few years ago, they stopped him and recommended that he get a US passport since he was by birth a US citizen.

  130. 130.

    Cacti

    I’ve got to say, on some level I’ve always admired the absolute brass balls it takes to adopt the position that “all of us are responsible, therefore none of us is responsible, let’s move on.”

  133. 133.

    piratedan

    @oldgold: well it’s pretty fucking obvious that if THIS is your response its apparent that you belong in the pie filter because nothing anyone tells you is going to suffice.

    go clutch some pearls and find a couch to faint on….

  136. 136.

    lollipopguild

    @jl: I will be happy to sign on to the Baud2020! campaign as a NonsenseAdvisor but I am very expensive.

  137. 137.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I believe the shit-stirrer in this thread is the same one who a couple of months ago, with great Concern and much regret, had come to the conclusion that Republicans are right, and we must throw Nancy Pelosi overboard

  138. 138.

    oldgold

    @Mnemosyne:

    Do you really need me to explain why indicting the Trump’s SIL one day before the N. Korean summit might not go over well?

  140. 140.

    efgoldman

    @oldgold:

    I expected much better than this weak sauce.

    When you’re wrong, you’re wrong.
    You’re using talking points that might have come from Wilmerbots or the RWNJs, because they know the position is both foolish and untenable. Which are you?

  142. 142.

    Suzanne

    So weird thing happening in my house this week: Spawn the Elder’s best friend is going viral and blowing up on Twitter. He is #jasonderulokid. Jason Derulo himself even retweeted it. Spawn is very excited.

  144. 144.

    magurakurin

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    As a general rule, the US considers accepting the citizenship of another country as a renunciation of US citizenship.

    I’m not sure this is true.

    U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. A U.S. citizen may naturalize in a foreign state without any risk to his or her U.S. citizenship. However, persons who acquire a foreign nationality after age 18 by applying for it may relinquish their U.S. nationality if they wish to do so. In order to relinquish U.S. nationality by virtue of naturalization as a citizen of a foreign state, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign nationality voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. nationality. Intent may be shown by the person’s statements and conduct.

  145. 145.

    efgoldman

    @oldgold:

    Do you really need me to explain why…..

    Yes, because there’s no legal, political, logical, or fantasmagorical reason not to. You are making ridiculous statements with no backup whatsoever except the little Wilmers buzzing in your head.
    Jared can be indicted on fucking election day if it suits Mueller.

  147. 147.

    efgoldman

    @dmsilev:

    Keen minds will immediately note that (a) Comey pissed all over that and (b) May 21st is rather more than 60 days prior to the midterm elections.

    And (C): None of the likely indictees is going to be on any ballot, for any office, anywhere.

  149. 149.

    oldgold

    @efgoldman:

    Neither.

    I am a liberal Democrat. Who has been an active participant of this community for a long time.

    I did not think commenting that the pace of this process is making me antsy would provoke you keepers of the orthodoxy to this degree.

  150. 150.

    Yarrow

    @Suzanne: That’s awesome. I looked it up. Hilarious. It’s really funny how things go viral. People seem completely overwhelmed when that happens. They’re suddenly “famous” and have no idea what to do about it.

  151. 151.

    efgoldman

    @oldgold:

    the pace of this process is making me antsy

    It’s making a lot of people antsy. Extending that to “Mueller can’t do anything this close to an election” and extending THAT to “the Korea summit” as a determining political event was ridiculous, and that’s what we jumped on.
    Patience, Grasshopper

  152. 152.

    MobiusKlein

    @Chris: Reality Winner got screwed by GG in that manner, roughly speaking.
    So maybe folks less savvy than he would make that error as well.

  155. 155.

    MisterForkbeard

    @efgoldman: Giving oldgold the benefit of the doubt, I think what he’s trying to say is that “Indicting the son-in-law of the sitting (mercurial, idiotic and ego-driven president) right before a summit with a hostile power isn’t a good idea for practical reasons”. It is however, legal and also wouldn’t go against DOJ policy.

    So, sure. Indict the day after the summit. It’s safer and lessens the chance of someone hitting the launch button. Legal and permissible either way, but one way is marginally safer and involves waiting a whole week, so it doesn’t really matter.

    I’m not sure oldgold has particularly earned the benefit of the doubt, given that last time he was here he spent the whole time concern trolling for Nancy Pelosi’s removal. In particular, they could have de-escalated this argument at any time if they’d chose to explain their comment rather than attacking people.

  156. 156.

    satby

    Good to know that pointing out facts makes one a keeper of the orthodoxy. Is there a badge or secret handshake?

  159. 159.

    MobiusKlein

    I also need to note that I am seeing the notion of “Muller is running out of time, no Russian collusion proven.” coming out in multiple fora.
    When things seem to be getting hotter, even.

    Is this some GG meme I did not know of?

  160. 160.

    jl

    @lollipopguild:

    ” I will be happy to sign on to the Baud2020! campaign as a NonsenseAdvisor but I am very expensive. ”

    That means you don’t accept loose change, low stakes lotto tickets and coupons? Man, that is pretty steep for a Baud 2020! consultant.

  161. 161.

    B.B.A.

    @oldgold: You have to respect the ground rules, friend.

    I have a lot of problems with Hillary Clinton, but I’m not going to talk about them here, at least until we get a Secret Speech at the DNC denouncing her. Likewise my enthusiastic support for Kirsten Gillibrand doesn’t have too many other takers here, so I refrain from mentioning her until she wins the 2020 primary. And of course I’d never use apophasis.

    And because I behave myself (except for an unfortunate incident a few months ago) I haven’t been tarred and feathered yet.

  162. 162.

    MisterForkbeard

    @B.B.A.: The Gillibrand comment is surprising – last I remembered, people were evenly on her here. Some of us (including me) like her, and I think some of the front pagers do as well.

  166. 166.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Millard Filmore: @mai naem mobile: That was my understanding. That the Scottish and Irish properties are underwater in the billions. This includes overpaying fir them in cash.

    Just checked, it’s millions. British millions, but millions nonetheless.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/08/donald-trump-scottish-golf-resorts-heavy-losses

    Donald Trump’s loans to his golf resorts in Scotland have increased to more than £150m after their losses last year accelerated, partly because of the oil price crash and currency costs.

    The latest accounts for his network of Scottish companies show he had to plough another £1.3m into his debt-ridden resort in Aberdeenshire to keep it afloat after the North Sea crisis saw its popularity slump among local golfers.

    Trump International Golf Links Scotland lost nearly £1.2m in 2016, forcing Trump to increase his interest-free loans to the resort to nearly £41m ($54m) while he was campaigning for the presidency last year.

    Trump’s much larger and better known golfing resort and hotel at Turnberry in Ayrshire, which he bought in 2014, has also suffered heavy losses, largely because of its partial closure for refurbishment and building works.

    Trump increased his funding of the resort by £49m last year. In all, Trump Turnberry owes Trump £112m ($146m), the accounts for its parent company Golf Recreation Scotland show, nearly double the £63m it owed him the previous year. In all, his interest-free loans to both resorts reached £153m ($200m) by the end of last year.

    Largely due to its closure for refurbishment, Turnberry’s losses in 2016 more than doubled from the previous year to £17.6m. In addition, the Trump Organization, which is now run by Trump’s sons and their lawyer Allen Weisselberg, lost another £9.6m because of currency transaction costs and currency losses. The Trumps fund Turnberry in US dollars but pay its bills in sterling.

    The accounts said that after the resort was fully reopened on 30 June last year, its income for the remaining year jumped to £6.7m. In the previous six months, when the hotel was partly open, its turnover stood at £2.3m.

  179. 179.

    efgoldman

    @Suzanne:

    Golf is such an uncool old-person thing to do.

    I’m an uncool old person; I’ve never golfed and never plan to.

  180. 180.

    Yarrow

    @Suzanne: How’s he handling it? Must be really weird.

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Gillibrand pissed off a number of us, myself included, with her leading role in the Al Franken thing.

    Me too. Prior to that I thought positively of her. Watching her actions during that period I am much less enthusiastic. I think she was a dupe and participated in taking out Franken possibly to remove him as competition for 2020 or something. I didn’t get it then and I don’t get it now.

  181. 181.

    B.B.A.

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Today the crowd at a Trump rally, unprompted, broke into a chant of “LOCK HER UP” a full hour and a half before anyone took the stage.

    I thought it was just a Trump obsession, now I realize it’s going to become a stock part of every Republican campaign up until the GOP dissolves. Decades after she’s dead and gone, the central plank of the GOP platform will be sending Hillary to prison.

    In such an environment, I don’t think it’s appropriate to raise my relatively minor issues with her.

  182. 182.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    Just a side note:

    If you believe these companies paid big bucks, and didn’t get anything, you probably believe Junior and Kushner had a meeting that promised dirt on Clinton from the highest levels of the Kremlin, and they didn’t discuss *anything* except US adoptions of Russian orphans.

    I think the Novartis meeting (“yeah, we had one meeting and realized we’d get nothing, but we already signed the contract, so we kept paying”) is an especially good example of this.

    How long is that lie going to keep working? I don’t mean in the face of investigation – I mean in the face of the news media, who, by their (this time actually!) irresponsible refusal to speculate are providing the gulls (for “gullibles”) reason to pretend that the accusations are coming from out in left field, rather than a perfectly reasonable suspicion, one that demands an affirmative defense rather than a presumption of innocence, given the circumstances.

  183. 183.

    Adam L Silverman

    @dmsilev: The 60 day window is for people actually on the ballot. Not for people not on the ballot, not for political appointees, and not for anyone else. We’ve been averaging almost one special election a month between Federal, state, and local special elections since January 2017, if the rule was you can’t ever indict anyone within 60 days of any election the DOJ would never be able to bring charges against anyone. Hence the silliness of @oldgold:’s argument.

  184. 184.

    Mnemosyne

    @oldgold:

    That’s not the prosecutor’s problem. The DOJ policy is (supposed to be) that they hold back on indictments of candidates in the months before an election. Jared is not a candidate for any office in 2018, and neither is his father in law.

    We are not a banana republic yet. The shit you’re advocating is what happens in dictatorships, and we ain’t there.

  185. 185.

    Adam L Silverman

    @oldgold:

    I did not think commenting that the pace of this process is making me antsy would provoke you keepers of the orthodoxy to this degree.

    If that’s all you’d said, you’d be fine. The clear lack of understanding of the DOJ’s guidelines regarding potential prosecutions of elected officials, combined with pretending to be naive is what is pissing people off.

  187. 187.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @B.B.A.:

    In such an environment, I don’t think it’s appropriate to raise my relatively minor issues with her.

    If Republicans want to run against her, let em waste their time. She’s never running for anything and they won’t ever “Lock Her Up” since she’s committed no crime. Don’t do Republicans work for them.

    ETA: …or as efg would say, fuckem.

  188. 188.

    oldgold

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Sophistry.

    There is no comparison with a special election and the general election this November.

    The point is the optimum political
    window for Mueller filing indictments is shrinking.

  191. 191.

    James Powell

    @magurakurin:

    I know several people who have both US and Irish passports and one person who has both a US and an Italian passport. They were all born here but allowed to get the Irish & Italian passports without giving up US citizenship.

  192. 192.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Yarrow:

    I think she was a dupe and participated in taking out Franken possibly to remove him as competition for 2020 or something. I didn’t get it then and I don’t get it now.

    He was never going to run for president. He’d been very, very candid about it. Making it clear that he had far too much baggage from his career as a comedian to ever run for president.

    As for Senator Gillibrand, this was actually consistent for her whether you agree with what she did or not. Ever since she’s gotten to the Senate, she’s been all over issues of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape in the military. And by all over I mean publicly, clearly impatient and angrily so to 4 star generals and admirals and secretaries in hearings about this. She has been consistently active on the topic of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape. And ultimately, it was Senator Franken’s decision to not wait for the Senate ethics investigation. Given the way the Senate works, even with Senator McConnell just ignoring whatever rules, norms, and/or traditions he finds problematic to his agenda on any given day, it is almost impossible to make a senator do something they don’t want to do.

  194. 194.

    Yarrow

    @Adam L Silverman: I understand all that and I know her history of work on this issue. I also don’t like the way things went down with Franken and I didn’t like what she did. I can admire and appreciate her record and work on the issue of sexual assault, etc. and still think in this instance she was wrong. I know it was ultimately Franken’s decision, but she led the way in making it harder for him to choose to stay.

  196. 196.

    sukabi

    @Chris: Nunes can’t be bothered to actually READ the Intel…what makes you think he’d be bothered to reword it?

  197. 197.

    magurakurin

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    A U.S. citizen may naturalize in a foreign state without any risk to his or her U.S. citizenship.

    That’s from the State Department. Maybe it’s a lie. Can’t say.

  198. 198.

    jl

    Huh, Alta Nova, US subsidiary of Russian oligarch’s company, and run by oligarch’s cousin, had a hobby of registering scads of alt-right domain names.
    Apparently they were never used, but that doesn’t IMHO mean it was not useful to some kind of organized effort for something or other to register and sit on them.

    See tweet below and the news clip in adjacent tweets.
    @joshtpm
    Wait, what?
    https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/994797973908393985

  199. 199.

    Adam L Silverman

    @oldgold: As someone with both a PhD in criminology and who has had funding from the DOJ, albeit in regard to terrorism research, I’m going to make this very clear: YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!! The DOJ guidelines only apply to exercising discretion regarding indictments within 60 days of an election for the people running. Regardless of whether midterms in general, and this one in particular will be a referendum on the President, the President is NOT ON ANY BALLOT ANYWHERE IN THE US. Does this mean that I expect Mueller to do anything incautious in regard to this guideline? No. From everything I know about Mueller he is meticulous. And, Mueller’s investigation aside, the Southern District of New York will indict, or will not indict, Michael Cohen as soon as they think they’re ready. And if that is November 1st, 2018, then it’s November 1st, 2018. And do you know why? Because the DOJ guidelines don’t apply to Michael Cohen because he’s not on any ballet in November of 2018.

    You keep this up and you’ll have far more time to spend posting about vinyl records on Pinterest. Capisce?

  201. 201.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Yarrow: She may have been wrong, but it was not out of character for her in regard to this issue.

  202. 202.

    Yarrow

    @Adam L Silverman: Yes, I understand that. It is possible that her background and strong interest in the issue meant she was less able to consider other viewpoints in this one instance. I will just say that watching how the whole thing unfolded I was left less enthusiastic about her than I was before it started. I don’t think she did herself favors in how she handed it, even though it’s consistent with her record on the issue.

  203. 203.

    NotMax

    Never goes out of style. John McCutcheon, Not Me.

    In the present atmosphere
    It’s absolutely clear
    That the buck
    Stops
    Miles from here

    (So happy someone finally saw fit to put it up on YouTube; it was always a bear to ferret it out before.)

  205. 205.

    oldgold

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Keep what up?

    The optimum political window for Mueller fuling jnductments is shrinking. The President just this Monday began making this argument.

    @realDonaldTrump
    Is this Phony Witch Hunt going to go on even longer so it wrongfully impacts the Mid-Term Elections, which is what the Democrats always intended? Republicans better get tough and smart before it is too late!
    8:35 AM – May 7, 2018

  207. 207.

    sukabi

    @Achrachno: if he does, they’d follow his lead…which is why all his obstruction attempts have been so obviously stupid.

  209. 209.

    hervevillechaizelounge

    The minute I heard about the 25 million dollars paid to Melania Trump’s friend for planning the inauguration and their subsequent falling out I knew there was a kickback afoot.

    IIRC, the friend didn’t even have an office for her “party planning” operation;and why would anyone possibly end their friendship with the president’s wife when she’s generating so much business?

    Melania and her friend must’ve argued about the amount of cash scheduled to roll back from the 25 million; it’s the only scenario that makes sense.

    Glad the MSM never bothered to dig into this!

  211. 211.

    Doug R

    @Peale:

    If I recall, the big complaint from ceos interviewed in Bloomberg was always the uncertainty. Uncertainty. Uncertainty. Now they have the most erratic man possible in the office and they don’t complain about that. Probably because they didn’t hire Obama whisperers.

    I thought that was what made Hillary evil, according to the Sainted Stein and Bernie the Beneficent. Hillary got paid to make speeches! To Wall Street! Where she told them to not worry as long as they played it straight! Plus she’s a warmonger that would get into war with Iran, unlike that peacenik trump! Emailz!

  213. 213.

    Brachiator

    @Yarrow:

    Taco Bell is not a Mexican restaurant.

    You ever see the movie Demolition Man? In that film, Taco Bell is the only restaurant.

  214. 214.

    Millard Filmore

    @efgoldman:

    I’m an uncool old person; I’ve never golfed and never plan to.

    A few years ago (hell, decades!) a few of us at work spent a lunchtime hitting a bucket of balls. I really whacked those little things … and they blooped maybe a quarter of the way across the field, at best.

  215. 215.

    MisterForkbeard

    @rikyrah: Yes – and as I said, there was some evenly split opinion on her. Some front pagers (Adam and others) think it was in character and completely consistent with her crusade against sexual violence, while some commenters think she was opportunistic or naive.

    Personally, I’m not happy she led the charge as she did, but I also don’t hold it against her. The evidence against Franken was (at best) at massive PR issue and something needed to happen. I would have preferred if he stayed to get his day in the ethics committee, but the way it happened wasn’t altogether awful either. And Franken was one of my favorite Senators.

  216. 216.

    Yutsano

    @oldgold:

    The optimum political window for Mueller fuling jnductments is shrinking.

    Stop.
    Stop right there.
    You already have the premise wrong.
    Mueller is not running a political investigation. He is running a legal investigation. He should not have any political considerations whatsoever except for what exists in DOJ guidelines. Stop making it something it’s not. It’s not a consideration in his investigation nor should it be.

  217. 217.

    Millard Filmore

    @Yutsano: In a normal investigation I would agree with you. This time it involves enough high level traitors to take this over the event horizon.

  218. 218.

    Yutsano

    @Millard Filmore: From our perspective yes. But Mueller cannot run his shop like that. He should not have political considerations when it comes to things like deadlines and whatnot. However there is DOJ guidance on this for him to follow. So that might serve the purpose just as well.

  219. 219.

    jl

    @Brachiator:

    ” In that film, Taco Bell is the only restaurant.”
    I remember that scene, but forgot which movie.
    When a character said ‘Taco Bell won the great restaurant wars, it’s the only restaurant now.’ that was the scariest scene in the movie for me. Still sends a chill up my spine.

  220. 220.

    Mnemosyne

    @oldgold:

    The DOJ guidelines that don’t say what you think they say.

    Again: Trump is not a dictator yet. He can’t end a criminal investigation into himself or his family members or his business associates just by tweeting about it.

    You seem convinced that a criminal investigation that has already resulted in 23 people being indicted on criminal charges is as baseless as the Benghazi or Fast & Furious investigations so we have to act fast before the whole thing comes to nothing.

    You have a bad case of both sides do it and you get mad every time we point out that, no, the Mueller investigation is not the same as the bogus “investigations” into Hillary Clinton.

  221. 221.

    Citizen Alan

    @oldgold:

    Honestly, I’m just surprised to see you spouting off about anything other than your monomanical desire to see Nancy Pelosi ousted as House Dem Leader.

  223. 223.

    J R in WV

    @oldgold:

    I don’t know what world you live in. It surely seems to be a different world than we live in, where, when a complex investigation takes as long as it takes to round up everyone involved in complex treason. Then when all the I’s are dotted and all the T’s are crossed, they announce the indictments for everyone they intend to prosecute.

    Where you from anyway? Vladivostok or St Petersburg? I heard there’s a ton of good jobs if you have good idiomatic English and typing and coding skills in St Pete… Long hours for good money? Is that right? You might have to brush up on your American idiomatic speech first, tho… But it sounds like you got pie down cold, or hot.

  224. 224.

    J R in WV

    @? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?:

    Because it isn’t really complicated. You need to take you birth certificate and all your current ID with you and go to a post office that handles passport applications. You cna make an appointment online, they will take your picture, be sure your forms are correctly filled out, they are also online at the USPS web site.

    Take some funding on a credit card, I forget if they take cash or not, it’s been nearly two years since I renewed ours. Once you have the first one, it can be one of your forms of ID if it isn’t way out dated. All of the data about the specific details is at the post office site, because that’s who handles it for most people.

  225. 225.

    sigyn

    @Yarrow: @MisterForkbeard: All Y’all’s ‘splaining about how passionate Gillibrand is about sexual violence just keeps reminding me of how Franken really went to bat about KBR’s forced arbitration for even cases of rape. How passionate he was about how Wrong that was. You don’t remember that now? It was a fairly big deal, to some of us, at the time (2010ish)

    There’s a fairly large contingent of people who are not so naive as to think that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” but we’re pretty sure that the enemy of our ally doesn’t deserve a handshake, much less our vote.

  227. 227.

    Gvg

    @oldgold: multiple people have given you facts. You ignore them and repeat your opinion as if it was based on facts. You live in your own head and won’t hear how the law really works. That makes you frustrating to deal with and the only thing we can do is tune you out. You, however are going to remain unhappy because you have made up your own “facts” and those “facts” cause you a lot of unnecessary worry. This is called “stewing in your own problems”

  228. 228.

    Groucho48

    @oldgold:

    That may seem to be a real world in Trumpland, but, it isn’t the real world any where else.

    What would be the problem if Mueller announced a bunch of indictments on October 1? Use small words and start with basic concepts as the rest of us here don’t have your keen insight.

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