Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

I did not have telepathic declassification on my 2022 bingo card.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Presidents are not kings, and Plaintiff is not President.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

The words do not have to be perfect.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

Being the leader of the world means to be the leader of peace.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Eh, that’s media spin. biden’s health is fine and he’s doing a good job.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

You are here: Home / Politics / Activist Judges! / To The Surprise of No One Open Thread: Prelim Reviews of The OIG Report

To The Surprise of No One Open Thread: Prelim Reviews of The OIG Report

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I hope Comey’s enormous self-regard can keep him warm, because from the early reports he showed all of his manly white arse when he decided that FBI norms about “nonpartisanship” didn’t apply to James Comey. Decent people are appalled that he chose to put his thumb on the scales… and Repubs are furious that he didn’t bury the evidence better.


Reader Interactions

238Comments

  1. 1.

    TenguPhule

    —review campaign donations DOJ employees or spouses run for office.

    Whut. Oh this is bullshit.

  2. 2.

    Feebog

    So this does not add much to what We already knew. Comey’s ego and big mouth basically tilted the election towards Trumpov.

  4. 4.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @ Zeddary
    To be absolutely clear: What Comey is rightfully dragged over the damn coals for in this IG report is the EXACT thing that made Trump blow kisses at him.

    I don’t know who this guy is, but this is what every damn Dem who answers a question about this needs to start with. If you feel the need to talk about how troubled you are, or serious questions being raised, walk fast, or say you haven’t read it yet, or you’re focused on trump’s grotesque immigration policies, or….

  5. 5.

    chopper

    IG found that on numerous occasions, COMEY used a personal GMail account to conduct official FBI business

    and…scene.

  6. 6.

    Mandalay

    @Feebog:

    So this does not add much to what We already knew.

    Seriously? You think Comey using a personal gmail account to conduct FBI business is a nothingburger? Really?…

  9. 9.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Comey is no hero. He gave us this mess with his unethical, stupid actions.

    Fuck Comey.

  12. 12.

    Spanky

    @LAO: No surprise at all. People who spend all their time smelling their own asses have a lot of gaps in their “common” knowledge.

    I wonder if he knew that people were, uh, “uneasy” about Clinton’s use of a private email account.

  13. 13.

    Gemina13

    On the one hand, I’m even more pissed off at Comey because the IG’s report has proven most of us right: His idiotic egoism handed Trump the election.

    On the other hand, I’m giggling because I KNOW how pissed off Trump is right now. Comey was burned by the IG’s report, but only for doing the things that Trump originally lauded him for. And on the same day, the NYAG slaps the Trump Foundation with a lawsuit over its unethical practices! I love it.

  14. 14.

    piratedan

    it feels like what we’re seeing the political jury trial of Hillary Clinton and we’re Henry Fonda in 12 Angry Men mode uncovering just how little truth to everything that there was on the surface… prejudice, sexism, conventional wisdom played against a backdrop of wanton corruption and treason…. everyone knew she was guilty but the damn proof was hard to find, or even manufacture, nvm, we’ll prosecute her any damn way… Every time it seems that when we even lift the thin veneer of the surface back, we find out more and more that she was screwed by people with personal agendas that they could not set aside…

    Even after Whitewater started, has anyone ever been able to find anything to bring suit against her for?

    30+ years of people prying into her public and private affairs and what do we have? a whole fucking lot of lawyers being paid, zero charges and now Donald Fucking Trump… money well spent indeed.

  16. 16.

    Aardvark Cheeselog

    IG found that on numerous occasions, COMEY used a personal GMail account to conduct official FBI business

    Jesus fucking weeps. What is wrong with these people? I learned 15 years ago to keep my work and private emails separate. It’s not that fucking hard, folks.

  17. 17.

    MisterForkbeard

    These recommendations are… kind of stupid:

    —take care before taking steps that could “impact an election”
    —don’t make public statements on conduct of people not charged with anything
    —don’t announce a charging decision without consulting AG, DAG or US attorney

    Those are all ALREADY POLICY (EDIT: And Dems noted it all at the time, too. Comey was supposed to be doing this and didn’t). And the following is super stupid, so I assume it’s a sop to Trump:

    —review campaign donations DOJ employees or spouses run for office.

    What is this going to accomplish other than making it harder for DOJ employees or their families to donate to candidates?

  22. 22.

    TenguPhule

    @piratedan:

    30+ years of people prying into her public and private affairs and what do we have? a whole fucking lot of lawyers being paid

    The Bar Association declares victory and goes home.

  26. 26.

    chopper

    @LAO:

    maybe since he’s such a fine upstanding man of character he was afraid to put in “weiner” as a search term.

  28. 28.

    rikyrah

    I’m topped out on “If Obama did this” counterfactuals because it just would NEVER happen. Sole focus must be on Trump’s active destruction of democracy right in front of our eyes. His excessive unrestrained criminality is intrinsic to him & would never be tolerated in Dem Party. https://t.co/nOV6biREZX

    — meta (@metaquest) June 14, 2018

  30. 30.

    rikyrah

    Let’s get real Rep Schiff and stop with the ‘rhetorical question(s).’

    The ONLY open issue is just how big a laundry did @realdonaldtrump & his #TrumpCrimeFamily operate.

    Period. #TrumpRussia#TaxReturns

    cc @FBI @TheJusticeDept @EricHolder

    — Bobfr (@Our4thEstate) June 14, 2018

  31. 31.

    catclub

    @Aardvark Cheeselog:

    I learned 15 years ago to keep my work and private emails separate.

    and then the government IT rules bork one’s access to the work email, and in order to get something done, one uses the gmail account which just works
    (describing for a friend)

  33. 33.

    James Powell

    So, even though every one of Comey’s “bad judgments” were harmful to one candidate, we should infer no bias?

    That he felt free to disregard conventions & norms only with respect to one candidate is bias.

  34. 34.

    southend

    We all know the Strzok text about “we’ll stop him” means fuck-all here in Reality Land. But mark my words, it will give the GOPers in Congress the political cover needed to let Trump get away with firing Rosenstein. See Gowdy’s whiny-assed statement today re: how the FBI can’t be trusted anymore. Rosenstein will be shit-canned soon and this text will be the cover for Senate GOPers to allow it to happen. Someone please talk me off my ledge.

  35. 35.

    Immanentize

    @LAO: I’m pretty sure I’ve read that Comey does not use a computer or have one in his office. He is computer illiterate. Which also explains much.

  36. 36.

    Mnemosyne

    @Gemina13:

    And to make it a little sweeter, today is Trump’s birthday. ?

    Happy birthday, asshole. Here are your indictments. We wrapped them in gold ribbon, just for you.

  39. 39.

    Jeffro

    @catclub: I do love how, all these years later, when something “borks” it means it’s blocked. LOL

    Here’s hoping that by 2040 or so, the vernacular includes
    – grand trump larceny
    – comeyesque claims of innocence
    – acting like a dumbEric
    –

  40. 40.

    Immanentize

    @southend: Mueller was appointed one year and one month ago this coming Sunday. People have predicted his firing and Rosenstein’s firing every day over that roughly 400 day period. Could it happen? I suppose, but Rosenstein is the guy who wrote the memo about why Comey should be fired — which all now should know was accurate.

    I think Rosenstein’s chances of being fired have gone down, not up.

  43. 43.

    Mandalay

    @rikyrah:

    Let’s get real Rep Schiff and stop with the ‘rhetorical question(s).’

    I know where you’re coming from, and I used to feel that way about Schiff’s restrained manner as well. But now I remind myself that he’s decent and honorable man, doing more than 99% of Democrats when it comes to getting in front of a camera and delivering a message.

    There are 236 Democrats in Congress who can get off their asses and get in front of a camera. Many of them choose not to bother when they could (and should) be out there helping Schiff to spread the word.

  44. 44.

    Yarrow

    I’ve been out and just saw all today’s news. It’s like a crap tsnunami of news today. I can’t keep up. But this:

    IG found that on numerous occasions, COMEY used a personal GMail account to conduct official FBI business,

    is just too much. I need to go to the store because my box of evens to can’t is completely empty.

  45. 45.

    southend

    @southend: Don’t know how to embed stuff, but especially note the last paragraph of Gowdy’s statement. Tell me it doesn’t scream: “It’s now OK for Trump to clean house at DOJ”.

  47. 47.

    TenguPhule

    @Immanentize:

    I think Rosenstein’s chances of being fired have gone down, not up.

    I’m afraid the opposite is true. The GOP outrage from last year has turned to doublethink this year.

  48. 48.

    LAO

    o/t: who knew? Not me.

    Sanders on Trump's North Korean salute: "It’s a common courtesy when a military official from another government salutes you return that"— Ben Jacobs (@Bencjacobs) June 14, 2018

  49. 49.

    Miss Bianca

    @James Powell:

    So, even though every one of Comey’s “bad judgments” were harmful to one candidate, we should infer no bias?

    That he felt free to disregard conventions & norms only with respect to one candidate is bias.

    “So, our report shows that even though the FBI director DID terminate the candidate’s campaign, we have determined that he did NOT terminate it ‘with extreme prejudice’, as some have claimed. So, there’s that.”

    From the original draft.

  50. 50.

    Gemina13

    @Mnemosyne: ::clinks glasses::

    Hear, hear. I’ve got a pile of S’mores makings ready for when those get delivered, too.

    C’mon, you orange shitpile. Open wide, ’cause here comes the Indictment-Choo-Choo.

  51. 51.

    TenguPhule

    @Yarrow:

    It’s like a crap tsnunami of news today.

    Infrastructure week part infinity. And tomorrow is the news dumpster.

  52. 52.

    TenguPhule

    @Mandalay:

    There are 236 Democrats in Congress who can get off their asses and get in front of a camera.

    Oh bullshit. The cameras are reserved for the very serious people, Republicans. They only turn on the Democrats to catch them doing something uncivil so that the VSP can berate them for it.

  53. 53.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @southend: Looking around twitter, that’s getting much less play than I expected. Jake Tapper has taken to his fainting couch on twitter, but even Cheney confidant Pete Williams kind of brushed it off. THey’ll beat it to death, trumpet it all they can and your conservative Facebook friends will build Strozk up into the new boogeyman, Dems will have to figure out how to push back against the likes of Tapper, and some won’t, but this will be the usual back and forth.

  54. 54.

    LAO

    Hey, I’m not a Christian, is this true?

    "it's biblical to enforce the law" that's the WH spin on ripping families apart. good luck GOP in swing states!!— Eric Boehlert (@EricBoehlert) June 14, 2018

  56. 56.

    Immanentize

    @LAO: It’s crazy, I know. Especially considering the “sensitivity” of the Weiner prosecution, one would think that would be an important fact. But the report indicates Comey didn’t talk to Lynch.

    I wonder what it was about the first African American woman attorney general that made their communications less than what was needed?

  57. 57.

    catclub

    @Jeffro: I was just thinking of the swedish chef bork, bork bork, but maybe that did not get into the vernacular
    until bork got borked.

  59. 59.

    Jager

    I’ve been working on a project since 5 this morning, non stop. The crew is tamping down the dirt behind our new retaining wall, the machine sounds like a helicopter is hovering over the house. I stop working, make a sandwich, start reading the news, now I’m pissed about more than just the machine that sounds like a Huey. I need a drink at it’s only 12:30 in SoCal.

  60. 60.

    Spanky

    @chopper: Actual, he probably did try a Google search on “weiner”, but the govt dirty words filter caught it and threw a red banner on his screen, causing him to spend the next three days hiding under his desk

  61. 61.

    Mnemosyne

    @James Powell:

    That he felt free to disregard conventions & norms only with respect to one candidate is bias.

    The tricky part is that it doesn’t seem to have been conscious bias, and that’s what they were looking for.

    He thinks Hillary is a horrible, dishonest person, but he didn’t say to himself, Today I’m going to ruin that bitch’s chance to be president! He just proceeded as though she actually was a horrible, dishonest person without examining his biases at all.

    This is why unconscious bias is often even more dangerous than conscious bias. People make assumptions (since that’s a Black man, the object in his hand must be a gun!) that lead them to make terrible decisions (therefore, I must shoot him to save myself!), and then they don’t understand why it all went horribly wrong and an unarmed man ended up dead — they never made a conscious decision to act as they did, they acted on their unconscious biases and assumptions.

  63. 63.

    D58826

    @LAO: It is a close race between who is the most disgusting and disputable dispectable piece of S**** – Trump or Sarah Huckleebee Sanders

  64. 64.

    Jeffro

    @Immanentize:

    I wonder what it was about the first African American woman attorney general that made their communications less than what was needed?

    Wait…SURELY you aren’t suggesting…no…no way! You think?

    No way.

    ;)

  65. 65.

    catclub

    I am confused.
    OTOH, Comey has a gmail account.

    OTOH, he has no computer? No internet access? Does that mean some assistant, ala trump, is handling his gmail account?

  66. 66.

    Immanentize

    @LAO: Re:biblical… Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s?

    I’ve been waiting for the Catholic hooty hope to get off their fancy asses and start condemning the immigration policies — and I see it’s starting. Slowly, because so many Bishops are in the Trump tank, but it is starting. And that will matter with Trump curious Catholic union voters — at least on the edges in critical states.

  68. 68.

    LAO

    @D58826: I’m just disgusted with these people:

    When asked whether she thinks it is moral to separate children from their parents at the border, Sarah Sanders refused to answer. When asked whether she as a parent has empathy for children separated from their parents, Sarah Sanders refused to answer.Powerful day the WH.— Yamiche Alcindor (@Yamiche) June 14, 2018

  70. 70.

    Elizabelle

    @southend: I’m tired of people showing up saying “aha, this is the day/week that Rosenstein will be fired and the GOP will let it go and WASF.” You are the tiredest and tinniest of hair-pullers, and you just happen to be the one doing it in this very thread.

    Must admit, I am in a mood today, but the defeatism appalls me.

  71. 71.

    Mnemosyne

    @rikyrah:

    Rep. Schiff is a former prosecutor who got convictions against the Russian mob here in LA. He’s staying measured because he’s building his impeachment case and he doesn’t want to leave any room for error.

    It would be super ironic if Schiff became the House impeachment manager because he originally won his seat from a Republican asshole who thought he was going to get a seat on the Supreme Court by participating in Clinton’s impeachment. Whoops! That didn’t really work out for him, because voters tossed him out on his ear in 2000. ?

  72. 72.

    TenguPhule

    @D58826:

    It is a close race between who is the most disgusting and disputable dispectable piece of S**** – Trump or Sarah Huckleebee Sanders

    Trump, hands down.

    But SHS still has a one digit tumbrel reservation.

  73. 73.

    catclub

    @Mnemosyne: Comey was a lawyer on Kenneth Starr’s Whitewater investigation team.
    unconscious bias indeed.

    Obama fucked up in promoting him to anything.

  74. 74.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I hit mute when she came on screen, but it sounds like Jethrene Huckleberry ran away when reporters started asking about their brutal child-separation policy. I was expecting and extra-long gloat on the Strozk text.

    Jim Acosta asked the Bible-thumping oaf how this policy fit in with her and her party’s (phony) religiosity.

  76. 76.

    Elizabelle

    @D58826: Yeah. There’s some real black humor in the fact that his own Clinton Derangement Syndrome eventually got his own ass fired, but it also brought us the Mueller investigation, so there is a silver cloud attached to the black humor.

  77. 77.

    Immanentize

    @Jeffro:
    But, seriously too — Lynch doesn’t come off as too good of a manager. I think Holder would have shut this shit down.

  79. 79.

    Jager

    @LAO:

    Two thoughts: 1. trump will probably want Generals in dress uniforms as part of his entourage from now on.
    2, Considering who the NK general works for, imagine if trump had just glared at the guy, pointed to a SS Agent, motioned them to come over and then pointed at the general. The NK General would have visions of anti aircraft guns dancing in his head.

  80. 80.

    catclub

    @James Powell:

    So, even though every one of Comey’s “bad judgments” were harmful to one candidate, we should infer no bias?

    The IG’s assignment was explicitly NOT to compare and contrast how the investigations of Clinton and Trump were going in 2016.

  81. 81.

    trollhattan

    @LAO:
    So…if there were a law banning religious practice then it would be a religious obligation to adhere? Dad really tossed some termites into Possum Queen’s noggin, didn’t he?

  85. 85.

    LAO

    MY GOD, what has the country become, who are we? I’m actually crying.

    .@RAICESTEXAS SAYS THERE ARE PARENTS WHO HAVE BEEN WAITING ***FOUR MONTHS*** POST-DEPORTATION FOR THE US TO RETURN THEIR BABY!!! THEY SKYPE ONCE A WEEK WITH THEIR ****EIGHT MONTH OLD**** WHO HAS BEEN EFFECTIVELY KIDNAPPED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.— Chris Hayes (@chrislhayes) June 14, 2018

  86. 86.

    trollhattan

    @Jager:
    I keep expecting Trump to ditch the blue tent-suits and meter-long red tie for something a little more befitting his office. How long was Nixon in office before road-testing those wacky WH staff uniforms? Donny’s bored with the WH by now, isn’t he?

  87. 87.

    TenguPhule

    @Elizabelle:

    Must admit, I am in a mood today, but the defeatism appalls me.

    Brace yourself.

    Just over half (51 percent) of Americans said it was likely the summit will help decrease the nuclear threat posed by North Korea, according to a Monmouth poll released Thursday.

    While not an overwhelming majority, the fact that at least half of Americans feel confident that things are headed in the right direction with North Korea, a country that has long been considered one of America’s biggest adversaries, is a move in the right direction for Trump.

    “The event was clearly a good photo op for both leaders, but the top goal from the U.S. perspective was reducing the nuclear threat posed by Kim’s regime. The public is more optimistic than pessimistic that this will be an outcome of these talks, but only just slightly,” said Patrick Murray, director of the independent Monmouth University Polling Institute.

    Half of the American public are unbelievably stupid. Believe it.

  90. 90.

    southend

    @Elizabelle: Hey, I hear you on the defeatist thing. For the record, I alone among my liberal friends/family have been loudly and confidently insisting that everything will come out and these assholes WILL be held to account both by the law and by history. But reading that text, it struck me that “Now there’s the thin reed that could give the so-called “principled” GOPers cover to pull the more-in-sorrow-than anger BS re: not stopping Trump from canning Rosenstein then Mueller”

  93. 93.

    Immanentize

    @TenguPhule:
    I might have been in that 51%. I think that tensions have eased. I don’t credit Trump because he created the friggin tensions! These poll questions are not really the “wins” the media bleats about.

  94. 94.

    Patricia Kayden

    Only an idiot would believe that Comey announced that the FBI had reopened its investigation into Secretary Clinton’s email server a few weeks before the nation was set to vote to HELP her election chances. ONLY AN IDIOT. The fact that this needs to be debated is pathetic.

  95. 95.

    JPL

    @LAO: They are going to wait until the child is 17 and arrested for speeding, then they will deport.
    Was that helpful?

  96. 96.

    TenguPhule

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Only an idiot would believe that Comey announced that the FBI had reopened its investigation into Secretary Clinton’s email server a few weeks before the nation was set to vote to HELP her election chances. ONLY AN IDIOT.

    40% of the American adult population then.

  97. 97.

    JPL

    @southend: When I saw Trump’s rallies and his rabid followers, I grew concerned. My son said the same thing, and he didn’t work for the FBI.

  101. 101.

    bemused

    @JPL:

    Hearing his rabid followers at the campaign rallies made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I felt like vomiting, so creepy, so unhinged, so evil.

  102. 102.

    Amir Khalid

    @southend:
    Look: Trump doesn’t dare fire Rosenstein and probably. Aside from lacking the courage, he has no doubt been made aware that firing Rosenstein as a first step towards firing Mueller would amount to starting another Saturday Night Massacre. You know who the ultimate casualty of the first Saturday Night Massacre was? Richard Nixon, the POTUS who started it.

  103. 103.

    sherparick

    @Gemina13: I think it was also his intimidation by the Right Wingers in Congress, within the FBI, and the MSN, as well as Right-Wing, Clinton Noise Machine, for which the FNYT was the loudest Wurlitzer for almost 2 years prior to the election. Comey was trying to appease these white sharks and piranhas, but of course once they tasted blood they don’t stop.

  104. 104.

    Mnemosyne

    @catclub:

    I’m no longer willing to give Republicans a pass for their crappy behavior. Comey fucked up. Period. He made a choice, and he caused a fucking disaster.

    Comey is to blame for his fuckup, and he doesn’t get to shove the blame off on anyone else.

  105. 105.

    bemused

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’ve been reading a lot of beach novels lately on the sofa with a cat on my chest. Hits the stress spot when I’m ready to scream my head off.

  106. 106.

    Elizabelle

    Kevin Drum’s take on the IG report, and it seems solid to me: Inspector General Says Comey Blew It

    … I assume that questioning the decision not to prosecute Hillary Clinton is beyond the scope of the IG’s remit. At least, I hope it is. But I don’t think it matters. Puerile chants of “Lock her up!” notwithstanding, it’s abundantly clear that Clinton did nothing seriously wrong. The FBI’s own reports leave no real doubt about that.

    Beyond that, I’ll be curious to see if the IG draws the obvious conclusion about Comey’s conduct: it probably wasn’t motivated by crude political bias, but it was motivated by a fear of Republican reprisals. It was clear from the start that congressional Republicans wanted blood, and Comey felt like he had to deliver some to keep the FBI out of their crosshairs. Republicans worked the refs ceaselessly, and it worked out spectacularly for them.

    Anyway, now we get to look forward to Donald Trump crowing about this, even though he egged on Comey’s actions and they were responsible for his election victory. I’m not sure I can stand that, so it’s just as well that I won’t be around this afternoon.

    I am sick of these motherfucking Republicans working these motherfucking refs. Now: snakes for all of them!

  108. 108.

    Mnemosyne

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    As I was saying late last night, I think that the evangelicals who are not already hardcore white supremacists are saying, Wait, we’re trying to stop women from killing their babies [through abortion] but we’re simultaneously ripping babies away from their weeping mothers? How does that make sense?

    Now the con artists like Franklin Graham are scrambling to come up with some kind of rationale for how it’s “pro-life” to take babies away from breastfeeding mothers. Right now, they’re blaming liberals and Democrats, but it’s a pretty shaky façade.

  111. 111.

    Mnemosyne

    @chopper:

    My new Facebook retort is, “So the next time you get caught going 40 in a school zone, the cops can take your kids away, right? I mean, since that’s the new punishment for a misdemeanor.”

  112. 112.

    hitchhiker

    Just a few days ago I was reading rightwing crazies on twitter who were Dead Certain that there would be many indictments of Democrats today. The IG report was going to show that Obama, Holder, Lynch, both Clintons, Comey, McCabe, and Susan Rice were all guilty of crimes against America (they mean Trump).

    All they have left is Peter Strozk telling his girlfriend they’d stop Trump.

    Michael Cohen is still going to be arrested. The Trump Foundation lawsuit is happening. Summer Zerkos is still after him for defamation of character. Stormy Daniels is still pushing for the public to know that he bought her off after banging her. Paul Manafort is likely to be locked up for good after tomorrow.

    HRC should be president, of course. Strozk was just one of millions of Americans rightly horrified at the very thought of this corrupt jerk in our White House; I’m sure I said “we’ll stop him” myself a time or two.

    And we good and goddam will.

  114. 114.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Immanentize: You’re welcome, but that was not a good thread, and I deleted the comment because I just didn’t like where it was all headed. I thought I deleted it quickly. Some threads are best to walk away from.

  115. 115.

    chopper

    I think that the evangelicals who are not already hardcore white supremacists are saying, Wait, we’re trying to stop women from killing their babies [through abortion] but we’re simultaneously ripping babies away from their weeping mothers? How does that make sense?

    they’re still ‘republican supremacists’. they’ll rationalize it just like they rationalize everything else the GOP does.

  116. 116.

    Mnemosyne

    @bemused:

    We’re going to the Happiest Place On Earth this weekend to stay in their fanciest hotel, and I will be ordering lots and lots of strong drinks by the pool when I’m not riding my favorite rides. I am REALLY looking forward to it.

  117. 117.

    gene108

    @piratedan:

    Even after Whitewater started, has anyone ever been able to find anything to bring suit against her for?

    I am still trying to figure out why we needed two special counsels to investigate it. And why we didn’t use special counsels to investigate all of Bush, Jr.’s failed business deals or why the media didn’t care about those.

  119. 119.

    Yarrow

    No surprise here:

    Source briefed on the IG report says issue of alleged leaks to Rudy about Clinton investigation info isn't limited to what's in this report. More info to come on that later.— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) June 14, 2018

    Giuliani is a traitor.

  120. 120.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    IG found that on numerous occasions, COMEY used a personal GMail account to conduct official FBI business, according to source briefed on the report.

    Presumably with [email protected] with the password “1 2 3 4”.

    I mean wasn’t Hilary at lest using an unoffical email server that they tried to secure? This is must be this White Male Privilege I have heard about to be this utterly lacking in self-awareness as Comey was here.

  124. 124.

    Calouste

    @Mnemosyne: Showing up at the border and asking for asylum isn’t a misdemeanor, it is a right covered by international law. Those people have their kids taken away as well.

  125. 125.

    ARoomWithAMoose

    @LAO: This is recent enough Snopes can’t tell me if it checks out. This is so cartoonishly evil it bounces off my fake news forwarded by the crazy uncle detector. We have truly ended up on the most retarded time line.

  126. 126.

    Boris, Rasputin's Evil Twin

    @TenguPhule: NO ONE is going to stone ANYONE until I blow this whistle! And I don’t care WHO says “Jehovah”!
    -John Cleese, in “Life of Brian”

  130. 130.

    TenguPhule

    @Elizabelle:

    I am sick of these motherfucking Republicans working these motherfucking refs. Now: snakes for all of them!

    Venom or constriction?

  131. 131.

    ET

    The totality of the report may not buttress tRump and Co but they will only focus on the bit about a particular agent who wanted to stop tRump (see NBC.com headline: Watchdog: Comey not biased in Clinton probe but agent vowed to ‘stop’ Trump).

  132. 132.

    Mnemosyne

    @chopper:

    Hey, we have plenty of empty Wal-Marts to stash Madison and Tyler in. We transported your kids to a shelter three states away? Shoulda thought of that before you drove with expired plates, chump.

  134. 134.

    chopper

    @Calouste:

    they’re all having their kids taken. the ones entering illegally and the ones claiming asylum. the former is a minor crime, the latter isn’t a crime at all.

  136. 136.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Comey is no hero. He gave us this mess with his unethical, stupid actions.

    You forgot “pompous” , “arrogant” , “possessing the mentality of a nine year old boy who desperately needs a bathroom break” when describing Comey.

  137. 137.

    rikyrah

    THEY ARE NOT RETURNING THE CHILDREN TO DEPORTED PARENTS!!

    THEY.ARE.NOT.RETURNING.CHILDREN.TO.DEPORTED.PARENTS.

    Check Chris Hayes’ twitter feed.

  138. 138.

    MobileForkbeard

    @Immanentize: I’m right there with you – tensions HAVE gone down relative to a few months ago, is the summit did succeed at that. It doesn’t mean Trump has done a good job, especially given that he caused the tensions and that he gave away large concessions for essentially nothing.

  139. 139.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: HRC had a professionally- and privately-run e-mail server for a Clinton family-owned domain that, according to the technical press, there is zero evidence it was compromised. Running a secure e-mail system is actually technically possible.

  140. 140.

    geg6

    @Immanentize:

    Pretty sure the American Council of Bishops has denounced this in no uncertain terms. Don’t have a link (really busy and at work), but pretty sure I heard that on the news last night or the night before. Might have been Tweety’s show because he’s always on about Catholics.

  143. 143.

    Jeffro

    @Dev Null:“he kushnered his form”

    AGAIN?
    lol

    (or does “kushnered” automatically mean that he fucked it up dozens of times?)

  144. 144.

    TenguPhule

    @rikyrah:

    THEY.ARE.NOT.RETURNING.CHILDREN.TO.DEPORTED.PARENTS.

    I’m afraid we’re going to find mass graves.

    Or big piles of ashes.

  145. 145.

    gene108

    @southend:

    We all know the Strzok text about “we’ll stop him” means fuck-all here in Reality Land.

    Strzok and the other lady were kicked off the Mueller investigation months ago. Yet no one in the MSM bothers to point this out, while the right-wing media keeps attacking them as uber-villains, because I bet most folks probably still think they are working with Mueller because the right-wing media keeps there names in spotlight.

  146. 146.

    Yarrow

    @Mnemosyne:

    As I was saying late last night, I think that the evangelicals who are not already hardcore white supremacists are saying, Wait, we’re trying to stop women from killing their babies [through abortion] but we’re simultaneously ripping babies away from their weeping mothers? How does that make sense?

    Agree. This is awful and evangelical women and some men will be appalled by it. Some evangelicals will not be able to vote for Republicans who clearly support it. Even if it’s just a few who don’t vote or *gasp* vote Dem, they all help.

  147. 147.

    Mnemosyne

    @LAO:
    @Calouste:

    This is to counter the immediate Well, not all of them are asylum seekers! retort. EVEN IF they’re illegal migrants and not asylum seekers, crossing the border is a misdemeanor. That’s why I ask them what other misdemeanors people should lose custody of their kids for. Smoking within 20 feet of a doorway? Littering from your car?

  149. 149.

    geg6

    @Elizabelle:

    I feel you. That’s why I’ve been a bit scarce here lately. I’m done with all the Chicken Littles. I find it completely dispiriting and I’m on a mission of optimism based on what I’m seeing happening on the ground here in what I hope will be Congressman Connor Lamb’s next congressional district.

  150. 150.

    TenguPhule

    @Yarrow:

    Some evangelicals will not be able to vote for Republicans who clearly support it.

    I question this. They will condemn in public and rejoice in private. Its who they are now. They’ve supped with a short spoon and the devil will have his due.

  153. 153.

    burnspbesq

    @TenguPhule:

    Sue they asses and take away they qualified immunity. Seize they houses and use them as shelters for asylum seekers.

  155. 155.

    Mnemosyne

    @burnspbesq:

    As I said last night, John Kelly should be the first one to be excommunicated. If the bishops can publicly refuse communion to politicians who support abortion rights, they sure as fuck can do it to the person who came up with this fucking heartless policy to punish ASYLUM SEEKERS.

  156. 156.

    Elizabelle

    Also to the surprise of no one: The NY Times gave James Comey a big opinion page slot to say “yea me!” Him still doesn’t get it. But he’s been vindicated. In his opinion.

    James Comey: This Report Says I Was Wrong. But That’s Good for the F.B.I.

    Tee hee. It’s more energizing to read the readers comments. They see right through the fig leaves Comey throws up. To wit:

    Reader commenter dadof2: Sir, it should be made perfectly clear that there’s a Grand Canyon of difference between being dishonest vs. having bad judgement.

    I have always agreed with the general assessment that you are a rigorously honest and decent man who will try to squeeze blood from a stone in order to do the right thing and make the right decision.

    But that’s not the same as bad judgement and, I’m sorry to say it, but your judgement has been extraordinarily bad, albeit always for the best reasons.

    The accusations that Trump makes against you, and the FBI, are frighteningly absurd, because he is, for better or worse, the President, because he challenges your incontrovertible honesty.

    Yet challenges to your judgement and decision-making are totally valid and, after over 62 years of life, and having followed Politics for all but 9 of them, I must agree with the IG–your decisions were ultimately dreadful, and catastrophic, both for the FBI, and for the nation.

    The few hundreths of a percent change in voting in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, affected by your decisions, was enough to land our nation is destructive “tornado” we are in.

    Reader commenter Nicholas: Mr. Comey: If you felt it necessary to go against established policy, you should have also disclosed that there was an ongoing investigation into the Trump campaign’s dealings with Russia. That would have been a more “evenhanded” decision. We as voters deserved to know that there were legitimate issues on the “other side” as well.

    Reader commenter Deborah: Mr. Comey,

    I agree with the IG. I was not and am not persuaded by your claim that your choices were disclose or conceal. Your choices were absolutely clear. Follow FBI policy or not. You chose to not follow the policy.

    And that is why Trump thought you would be on his side.

    Reader commenter MegL: I guess there’s really nothing that will pry James Comey away from his claim that his decisions were correct. Frankly, the IG report should give him pause. And I will never comprehend why, during the October surprise, it didn’t occur to him that, along with the fact that he was breaking protocol so close to the election, voters were also unaware that the other campaign was under a counterintelligence investigation. Under these conditions, he most certainly put his finger on the scale against Clinton. How is that not clear to him?

  158. 158.

    patrick II

    Comey was the oblivious head of the FBI while the Russians and Trump were doing every thing but bend over and show us their conspiring asses during the election, but Comey only had eyes for Hillary ‘s email. His failure as head of the FBI is epic.

  159. 159.

    Dev Null

    @Mnemosyne: No fan of Franklin Graham or his ilk, but HuffPo reported today that Franklin Graham “blasts Trump’s Immigrant Family Separations at Border“.

    Which reminds me of the famous story that when Metternich / Richelieu died (heard it both ways) one longtime diplomatic antagonist responded to the news with “I wonder what he meant by that.”

    If that’s not clear: I’m wondering what Graham’s calculation was. Not Christian charity, I bet.

  160. 160.

    Duane

    Nothing is ever going to make republicans happy unless they get their way on everything everytime. Stop trying to appease them. They sincerely need to be told shut the fuckity-fuck right up. This country can’t tolerate their blatant stupidity any longer.

  162. 162.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Gin & Tonic:

    HRC had a professionally- and privately-run e-mail server for a Clinton family-owned domain that, according to the technical press, there is zero evidence it was compromised. Running a secure e-mail system is actually technically possible.

    So apparently if HRC used some freebie email it would have been cool. because a private secure email server for classified information is just to elitist.

  164. 164.

    The Dangerman

    @TenguPhule:

    It is a close race between who is the most disgusting and disputable dispectable piece of S**** – Trump or Sarah Huckleebee Sanders

    Not only is it Trump, he’d be insulted if anyone thought otherwise; he just doesn’t care that he’s a worldclass POS as long as he’s getting his money or his Little Donald serviced.

    ETA: Fuck ’em both (h/t EFG)

  165. 165.

    burnspbesq

    From the America article I linked to above.

    One bishop asked about the possibility of “canonical penalties” being enforced on Catholics who cooperate with unjust immigration policies. Bishop Edwin J. Weisenburger of Tucson, Ariz., said such penalties are put in place to heal and “therefore, for the salvation of these people’s souls, maybe it’s time for us to look” at such action

  167. 167.

    eric

    @LAO: actually, one could argue that Jewish scripture required an indifferent adherence to the laws and that Jesus softened the laws with mercy and an open heart to all.

  168. 168.

    Mnemosyne

    @Dev Null:

    Somebody linked to that yesterday. Basically, Graham says that the policy is terrible, but Democrats forced Republicans to do it. It’s the usual abuser’s you made me hit you! excuse-making.

  169. 169.

    Citizen Alan

    @Immanentize:

    I think Lynch herself would have shut it down had Bill not made the asinine decision to go visit her at that airport. Because she actually has ethics and character, she felt bound to stay hands-off of the investigation to prevent any appearance of impropriety.

    Honestly, I know Hillary and Bill love each other, but it has to be absolutely galling for her that the most prominent advocate for feminism of my lifetime was denied the presidency in significant part because both her husband and her best friend’s husband were unable to keep their pants zipped up.

  172. 172.

    ruemara

    @Mandalay: This. Is. Not. How. TV. Works.
    You get invited on the news programs. You can call a news conference & no one shows up. If your conference is even carried would depend on the producer. For mercy’s sake, people need to LEARN HOW SHIT WORKS.

    @Gin & Tonic: Amen. See above.

  173. 173.

    jl

    A wise commenter on Balloon-Juice typed that if Comey felt he had to say something public, he should have just released a very short statement that there were ongoing FBI investigations into both campaigns, and left it at that. I don’t know why, if Comey felt he had to depart from protocol due to fear of leaks or whatever, he didn’t just do that.

    I’m curious about what is going on the IG office and how much the Trumpsters have corrupted it. From what I’ve read and heard in the news this morning, seems like the drill is to produce a decent report, but then just BS, or mislead, or lie, or spout nonsense, in the conclusions and summary and findings. So, that might be a clue. OTOH, that might be long standing SOP on how these investigations work.

  174. 174.

    Dev Null

    @Amir Khalid: It’s a claim. Is it true? Stay tuned.

    You (“I”) wouldn’t think that Трамп is sufficiently stupid that he would fire Rosenstein and Mueller four and a bit months before the midterms… but Трамп has been known to make really stupid decisions on impulse.

    Like firing Comey.

    Shocking, I know.

  175. 175.

    catclub

    @gene108:

    Strzok and the other lady were kicked off the Mueller investigation months ago.

    AND there were no actions by Strozek they could point to showing bias. I am sure they looked hard.

  176. 176.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Immanentize

    : I might have been in that 51%. I think that tensions have eased. I don’t credit Trump because he created the friggin tensions! These poll questions are not really the “wins” the media bleats about.

    Let me second this.

  177. 177.

    MomSense

    @LAO:

    Didn’t Comey also fall for that phony document purporting to be a Russian Intelligence assessment of conversations between AG Lynch and Clinton staff?

  180. 180.

    trollhattan

    @geg6:
    If only we had the wife of a major Republican operative somewhere near the Vatican to do some outreach on this matter….

  181. 181.

    sukabi

    @Gemina13:

    NYAG slaps the Trump Foundation with a lawsuit over its unethical practicescriminal activities!

    Fixed it. White collar crime is still crime. AG wouldn’t be interested if there weren’t laws being broken.

  182. 182.

    jl

    @catclub: They seem to have looked very hard, but decided in their BS top-line findings that they couldn’t rule out political bias even though absolutely no evidence was found, and even though actions were taken that were directly counter to charge of political bias.

    From what I’ve read, apparently this agent Strozk, even though he hated HRC and thought she was getting off too easy on the email/server investigation, also thought it was a no-brainer that any attempt by a foreign country to influence a presidential election was far more important than what by all evidence was routine sloppiness with low level classified data by politicians. Apparently this Strosk person using common sense raised doubt about his professionalism and lack of fanatical Deep State plotting in favor of HRC. Or something. I’m sure there will be a library of deranged Trump tweets and GOP BS about it.

  183. 183.

    TenguPhule

    @Gravenstone:

    I vote for using only one. Make the rest waiting their turn sweat it out during the rides of the pre-decedents.

    But then we’d take weeks trying to decide the order instead of making the world a better place..

  184. 184.

    Groucho48

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    The Clinton server was not for classified information and, indeed, was incapable of receiving properly marked classified documents. For classified stuff, she would have to go to specially secured rooms in Washington or, I think, in NYC, to see them.

  185. 185.

    Dev Null

    @Mnemosyne: Ah, that makes sense.

    That Graham would say that, weasel that he is, I mean. You can read that into the HuffPo article, but it isn’t clear.

    But the more interesting point, seems to me, is that false prophet Graham feels the need to put distance between himself and ripping families apart… is Graham getting heat from, well, somewhere?

    Also that HuffPo link mentions reax by the US Council of Catholic Bishops. They don’t approve.

  186. 186.

    TenguPhule

    @MomSense:

    Didn’t Comey also fall for that phony document purporting to be a Russian Intelligence assessment of conversations between AG Lynch and Clinton staff?

    He did indeed.

  187. 187.

    TenguPhule

    @Dev Null:

    But the more interesting point, seems to me, is that false prophet Graham feels the need to put distance between himself and ripping families apart… is Graham getting heat from, well, somewhere?

    Like all weasels, he has a nose for personal survival. He likes all of his limbs exactly where they are now.

  188. 188.

    Brachiator

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    HRC had a professionally- and privately-run e-mail server for a Clinton family-owned domain that, according to the technical press, there is zero evidence it was compromised. Running a secure e-mail system is actually technically possible.

    So apparently if HRC used some freebie email it would have been cool. because a private secure email server for classified information is just to elitist.

    Pretty much. Clinton cannot win. Complaint number one (and some yahoo griped in HRC’s face about this in one of the debates) is that she held herself above the law by running the private server without permission. Blah blah blah ordinary people would have been punished because of what she did.

    Complaint number two is that Clinton was obviously using the private server for nefarious ends and deleted incriminating emails that would prove that she and Bill were doing something that there were not supposed to be doing.

    And of course, Obama and the deep state are protecting Hillary, who otherwise would be in jail because, well, just because.

    This crap will go on forever because Clinton haters can never be satisfied (and of course, because there ain’t nuthin’ here that is worth investigating).

  190. 190.

    Mnemosyne

    @Dev Null:

    It’s in his full statement, which I don’t think HuffPo used in their eagerness to push a even Franklin Graham says this is bad story.

    The RCC is going to be MUCH more vocal about this, because immigrants are the lifeblood of the church. I guarantee that all of this shit is making parishioners from the Philippines and Central America extremely queasy. Remember, the RCC in America was instrumental in the Sanctuary movement of the 1980s that sheltered immigrants fleeing the “wrong” wars in Central America.

    And Pope Frankie of Argentina is probably sending some firm orders down the line as well.

  191. 191.

    Dev Null

    @Gin & Tonic: Is that one in a million or one in ten million? (I lost track of the 9s.)

    That would be a max of 400 or 40, depending.

    Seems low.

  192. 192.

    sukabi

    @TenguPhule: me thinks the “top law enforcement official” at the time was just another failing upward white male.

    How as a “top investigator” you don’t know or can’t figure out the relationships of people who have BEEN IN THE NEWS for the last several years, and have been THE SUBJECTS OF YOUR OWN AGENCIES INVESTIGATIONS?

    And the email thing? JFC there are no words.

  193. 193.

    catclub

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    So apparently if HRC used some freebie email it would have been cool. because a private secure email server for classified information is just to elitist.

    UNclassified emails. I assume a typo.

  194. 194.

    Humdog

    @Mnemosyne: If i were still speaking to my ex-cop Evangelical brother-in-law, I would ask him how many children he seized from the jaywalkers he ticketed.

  197. 197.

    Dev Null

    @Mnemosyne: Yeah, I mostly skip by HuffPo, but that story stuck out like a sore thumb. Silly me.

    re RCC, I hope you’re right. I don’t know where the theocon Catholics I’ve known would come down on this… they’re as far right as Franklin Graham. Also, too … there was the Sanctuary movement, but there was also Liberation Theology during the same period … which the Church crushed.

  200. 200.

    Gelfling 545

    @MobileForkbeard: Tensions have gone down because Trump has stopped calling Kim stupid names and given him what he wanted so that much is true. Trump got some nice publicity photos so he’s happy.

  201. 201.

    Dev Null

    @TenguPhule: Well, my point was that fundie evangelicals tend to be described as a top-down authoritarian cult^h^h^h^hmovement, or put differently: they take their cues from Graham.

    Graham not taking his cues from anyone, I was wondering whether forced separation of families might be polling badly among the flock.

    It just seems curious.

  203. 203.

    Mandalay

    @ruemara:

    For mercy’s sake, people need to LEARN HOW SHIT WORKS.

    FFS, get the fuck off your high horse. You can get invited in front of a camera by making newsworthy comments. The media loves to focus on how few Republicans stand up to Trump. Well I’d like to focus on how few Democrats stand up to Trump. Sure there is a solid core – Waters, Schumer, Pelosi, Schiff, Murphy et al – that you hear from regularly, but there’s no earthly reason why more Democrats can’t be making the effort to be heard. If they start speaking out the cameras will follow.

  204. 204.

    TenguPhule

    @Dev Null:

    Well, my point was that fundie evangelicals tend to be described as a top-down authoritarian cult^h^h^h^hmovement, or put differently: they take their cues from Graham.

    Graham not taking his cues from anyone, I was wondering whether forced separation of families might be polling badly among the flock.

    Graham doesn’t want to die at the hands of an angry mob. His survival instincts are sharp enough to see that the public’s respect for law and order is breaking down when that law is cruel and the orders are obscene.

  206. 206.

    TenguPhule

    @Mandalay:

    You can get invited in front of a camera by making newsworthy comments.

    Democrats railing against Trump are not considered newsworthy unless they’re Pelosi or using obscenities to describe him and his family.

  207. 207.

    TenguPhule

    @Mandalay:

    If they start speaking out the cameras will follow.

    That’s not how our modern media works. How many times do you need this explained to you?

  208. 208.

    jl

    @Dev Null: The fundy prot preachers have been using the line that Trump is our leader chosen by God, who sometimes chooses very flawed, even evil, people to rule, in order to fulfill His holy plans. So, Trump is a modern Saul, or David. Of course, a Democrat is by definition and usurper, cannot be chosen by God, so has to be an Ahab, who only fulfills the plan of God by punishing the people with a wicked leader for their sins.

    The fundy preachers never explain how they know this. But they assure their flocks that is the obvious truth.

    Trump is such a patent and obvious toxic ass, the preachers may sense that existing BS story has a time limit on it. They probably underestimated Trump’s capacity to be a patent and obvious toxic ass, as did most people. I don’t think the fundy preachers will ever depart from defending reactionary patriarchy and authoritarianism. The means will change, is all. I think Graham recently swung through the SF Bay Area for some rallies. He made a point of warning against any kind of political progressivism, which he said was Godless.

    Whenever their cynical tactics for controlling their flocks for political gain and worldly power stop working, they have to find new approaches, check with the tax lawyers to make sure it won’t cause problems with the IRS, and adapt accordingly.

  209. 209.

    Elizabelle

    You guys, I am not comfortable with equating entering the country illegally with jaywalking.

    At some point, we either have borders and citizenship, or we don’t. We can enforce our laws a lot better than Republicans do (and the biggest deterrent would be serious e-verify enforcement with the employers going to jail or getting hefty fines — and then make more visas available for those industries [meatpacking, agriculture] where you cannot find legal employees at a decent wage), but I don’t think jaywalking is the right analogy at all.

    I think this is a soft underbelly for Democrats, IMHO. Go ahead and call me a racist or bigot, but those who are already without work are not helped by a constant instream of exploitable labor.

  210. 210.

    gwangung

    @Mandalay: Doubling down on the naivety, eh?

    Folks fun of because you make stupid statements. You seem to enjoy that.. Keep on doing that, since that turns you on.

  212. 212.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Elizabelle: What people are doing in this thread is conflating minor misdemeanors like speeding tickets and misdemeanors like shoplifting, getting into a bar fight, and holding a small amount of weed for personal use. Misdemeanors are fairly minor crimes that can be punished by a jail sentence of less than one year.

  213. 213.

    Sophie Montane

    We are through the looking glass:

    It concludes Comey was coloring outside the lines, but it wasn’t to help Hillary Clinton.

    Of course it wasn’t to help Hillary Clinton. It was to hurt Hillary Clinton, and it did.

    How the fuckity fuck did we get to this upside down place where the media is seriously discussing whether Comey’s email grandstanding was designed to help Hillary?

  215. 215.

    YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S)

    @Immanentize: Yes, I would have answered the same way if I responded to polls. The trip helped ease the tension that Trump created.

  216. 216.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Elizabelle: I think they are making the argument in good faith but do not know that they are wrong. Sometimes leaving the law talking to people with legal training isn’t a bad idea.

  221. 221.

    chopper

    @Elizabelle:

    people may wish it to be a more serious crime, but as it stands right now unlawful entry is a misdemeanor. separating people from their children like that is in no way shape or form a proper punishment for a misdemeanor crime, ignoring the fact that it’s a morally inexcusable act from the get-go.

    comparing it to other minor crimes may not be a winner of a talking point for the democratic party, true, but neither is hoping that trump keels over from a stroke in his happy meal and there are plenty of those type of comments here.

  222. 222.

    Dev Null

    @jl: Yeah, “two kingdoms” theology, or so I hear.

    Gotta run, already late to a meeting.

  223. 223.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @LAO:
    So much for separation of church and state. These people are nuts.

  226. 226.

    Mnemosyne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    FWIW, I’m conflating them because people online keep saying shit like, Well, I would never be in that position because I would never, ever break even the smallest law. That’s why the misdemeanor comparison is getting miniaturized.

    And it’s generally not an argument with any actual law-talkin’ person, so trying to bring in nuance doesn’t work.

    If you can think of a different argument that would counter people who say, They deserve to have their kids taken away forever because they broke the law! I really need it, because these assholes are on my last nerve.

  227. 227.

    Mnemosyne

    @Elizabelle:

    You guys, I am not comfortable with equating entering the country illegally with jaywalking.

    I’m not comfortable living in a country where cops strangle citizens to death for misdemeanors, and yet that’s the country we live in. Our fellow citizens think that breaking even the most minor law is deserving of an instantaneous death penalty and these illegal migrants are lucky we don’t just gun them all down at the border.

    And I am not exaggerating. That’s what they actually say in public forums using their (presumably) real names.

    So I’m comfortable doing a little conflation. YMMV.

  228. 228.

    J R in WV

    @Immanentize:

    I’ve read that Comey does not use a computer or have one in his office. He is computer illiterate. Which also explains much.

    Yes, indeed, it does!! A person who is computer illiterate is not qualified to run a law enforcement agency in charge of cyber crime , at all.

  229. 229.

    J R in WV

    @TenguPhule:

    @burnspbesq:

    It’s not enough until they start excommunicating ICE and DOJ personnel.

    And for the non-catholics?

    The non-catholics get burnt at the stake – auto-de-fa, then flames. At least that’s the way it used to be…

  230. 230.

    J R in WV

    @Gin & Tonic:

    99.99999% of the people opining on HRC’s e-mail practices have no idea whatsoever how e-mail actually works and couldn’t spell SMTP if their life depended on it.

    I can actually spell both HTTP and HTTPS – how about that, G&T ~!!!~

    IMAP and POP3 ~!!~ Take that!!

    Those other 99.99% — Fuck’em (thanks to efg)

  231. 231.

    J R in WV

    @Elizabelle:

    You guys, I am not comfortable with equating entering the country illegally with jaywalking.

    You make that clear, but the fact is that the law defines illegally entering the country as a misdemeanor — not only that, both our statutes and international treaties with the force of law in this country define arriving in the country to seek amnesty as legal.

    If you want illegals to be felons, congress and the president will need to rewrite immigration law. And there isn’t any way for them to make seeking amnesty illegal, so far as I know. Getting out of an actual treaty signed by the president and approved by the Senate isn’t something that can be undone easily, on purpose and by design.

  233. 233.

    Gemina13

    Bloody fucking hell. Seth Abramson just tweeted the following

    Giuliani here establishes that what Trump has told his surrogates to say to the press is that Bob Mueller should immediately be suspended and the FBI agents who investigated him in 2016 arrested when/as possible.

    This is some seriously chilling bullsh*t. Nothing funny about it.

    Giuliani is beyond batshit, and the media is either airing his insanity for the ratings, or because the betting pool on his stroking out during the broadcast is at 50-50.

  234. 234.

    Dev Null

    @TenguPhule: Wait, wut?!?

    Too much vinho verde to comment sensibly (I’m long past the point at which alcohol matters for my clearance), but what’s the evidence that Graham is avoiding pitchforks at the door, and doing so long before pitchforks appear at his door?

    Reminds me of the old joke about the drunk looking for his dime under the streetlight:

    No, I didn’t lose it here, but there’s more light here.

  235. 235.

    Dev Null

    @J R in WV: er, ah…

    Only inordinate consumption of vinho verde prevents me from responding to this provocation in the manner in which is called for.

    SNMP? TLS? SSL? Forever let us hold our banners high!

    Come along and sing our song, and NFS NIS SSH …

    Mickey Mouse!

    Can you say RFC?!?

  237. 237.

    Elizabelle

    @J R in WV: Excuse me, where do I say “felons?” There’s a huge difference between saying “guys, it’s more serious than jaywalking” and “lock ’em up!”

    The hive mind here appalls me. The gamut, from A to B.

    I expected better from you. You have made an appalling assumption.

  238. 238.

    JEC

    @chopper:

    …separating people from their children like that is in no way shape or form a proper punishment for a misdemeanor crime…

    You may not have thought that through — or you may be unfamiliar with US law. Here’s the deal: In the US, children are removed from their parents incident to arrest routinely. As a rule, parents are not allowed to take their toddlers to jail with them. Notice that I say “incident to arrest.” We’re talking about people who haven’t been charged with anything — just people who have been physically detained by law enforcement pending some action by a court.

    So the answer to the question: “When was the last time you took a child away from a suspected misdemeanant?” would simply be, “The last time I arrested a suspected misdemeanant accompanied by a young child.”

    And as to “punishment,” convicted misdemeanants who serve jail sentences are also — obviously — separated from their children during their sentences. Again, this happens all the time, in every state in America.

    So, as rhetoric, “taking kids away is never an appropriate punishment for a misdemeanor” may or may not sell well. But as either legal or policy analysis, it’s pretty transparent bunk.

    That said, the sentiment behind this rhetoric does point to a real issue. The American criminal justice system routinely shreds families because that system deals solely in individual: individual guilt or innocence, individual punishment. “Family” is, for the most part, an alien concept, and “the system” cares little for its impact on the child-bystanders swept up in its machinery. Liberal advocates for criminal justice reform have been ringing this bell since…well, since forever, really, on both pragmatic and humanitarian grounds. So what’s new here?

    The big difference between the American immigration system and its criminal justice system is that the former, since 1965, has been fundamentally built around the fact that human beings live in families. Arguably, American immigration law has been the country’s single most “pro-family” institution for decades.

    So AG Sessions’ decision to drastically ramp up the criminal prosecution of illegal entrants removes them from the family-friendly framework of immigration law and deposits them in the family-indifferent (and, consequently, objectively family-hostile) framework of the criminal justice system. And while the immediate consequences are upsetting enough in humanitarian terms, I think what’s truly alarming is the large step we are taking in the direction of criminalizing immigration status, which, in the American political lexicon, is a step toward dehumanizing immigrants.

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