Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

In my day, never was longer.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

Republicans don’t trust women.

I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself.

A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

This fight is for everything.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

We still have time to mess this up!

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

In after Baud. Damn.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires

You are here: Home / Politics / Impeachment Inquiry / Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Will the WH Have the Courtesy to Schedule the Weekend News Dump Today?

Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Will the WH Have the Courtesy to Schedule the Weekend News Dump Today?

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  3. 3.

    Nicole

    Good morning!

     

    Jezebel does a Thanksgiving Pissing Contest every year (for best horrific Thanksgiving) and last year someone posted a really funny one. I tried to set it to link properly, but if I screwed up, it’s in the comment section and starts off saying it’s a long story so buckle in:

    https://jezebel.com/1830600755

  5. 5.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    As a white man who has never voted for a Republican for President, I’d be cool with it if we took the franchise away from white men for about a century. The country would be so much better off. We denied every other ethnic/gender group the right to vote for at least that long, so it would even things out.

  7. 7.

    satby

    @OzarkHillbilly: ?

     

    @rikyrah: @Nicole: @Baud: Good morning ?

    my young friend helped me get quite a lot cleaned up last night and we had a nice time getting real Mexican food. She woke up at 5 though, so we’re sitting here in our tablets reading. She’s working a different booth at the market today, so she’s up early. Hoping she’s not too bored, I’m not much of a talker before at least 3 cups of coffee! ?

  8. 8.

    NotMax

    Certainly have been burned in the past, ending up dissatisfied, disenthralled or disappointed by a too high percentage of streaming services’ original content. That said, a movie upcoming on December 20th on Prime looks promising (albeit taking grandiose liberties with history): The Aeronauts.

  13. 13.

    satby

    @oatler.: And idiots will be busting down the doors on the holiday just to buy cheap cheap no one needs on fictitious discounts.

    I hate Black Friday and I’m most annoyed that the stupid Farmer’s Market board decided to be open for it. I’m at a loss to imagine who is going to want to shop there the day after a huge dinner.

  15. 15.

    JPL

    @oatler.: That sucks.   I can’t even boycott Walmart because I don’t shop there, but I would if I could.    I thought holiday pay was a federal law.

  18. 18.

    JPL

    @OzarkHillbilly:  Sarah certainly has changed.

     

    edited to add that I still am amazed the MSM spent hours discussing the lipstick on a pig because Sarah complained that President Obama was talking about her.

  24. 24.

    Kay

    Youth Summit on Opioid Awareness

    It’s weird that they have so few sponsors for these events. They have two, one of which is the DEA, which sort of doesn’t count. Our local school district has gotten more private sector and charitable org sponsors for opioid abuse prevention than that. You would think the Trump Administration could get more private sector funding given that they gave all the executives and the corporations themselves massive tax cuts.

    I don’t think Kellyanne Conway is working very hard on this. Maybe they gave it to Jared.

  26. 26.

    NotMax

    TCM alert.

    Although hardly holiday fare, Das Boot airs at 3:30 p.m. Eastern time today.

    Seeing it in the theater when first released, the only empty seats in the place were in the front row. So mesmerizing that didn’t pay any mind whatsoever at having to crane my neck to see for 2&189; hours. Have not seen it since then, can assume a more comfy position this time.

  27. 27.

    Kay

    @Baud:

     

    It’s a really popular issue! There’s tons of money floating around. The Trump approach is ideologically pure too- it’s an abstinence message, so involves no actual ongoing financial commitment or dealings with icky drug addicts and their…problems. If you want private sector and charitable funding to scold 7th graders it’s available.

  29. 29.

    Baud

    The latest CNN poll conducted by SSRS among potential Democratic primary voters nationwide finds that former Vice President Joe Biden continues to lead the Democratic field with 28%.

    Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren continue to battle for second place with 17% and 14% respectively.

    South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg comes in not too far behind at 11%.

    https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/cnn-poll-11-27-2019/index.html

  30. 30.

    Baud

    I didn’t click, so I don’t know if this is Vogel.

     

    What the Bidens Actually Did in Ukraine

    NYT > Top Stories / 36min


    How the former vice president and his son became caught in the crossfire of the impeachment inquiry, without any evidence of wrongdoing.

  31. 31.

    Baud

    @Baud:

     

     

     

    More

     

     

    No other candidate reaches 4%, meaning the poll does not result in any changes to the lineup for the Democratic National Committee’s December debate. A cluster of four candidates stand at 3%, including the latest entrant to the race, former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg. He is joined by Sen. Kamala Harris of California and businessmen Tom Steyer and Andrew Yang. Sens. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota and Cory Booker of New Jersey have 2% each in the poll.

     

     

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/27/politics/cnn-poll-joe-biden-pete-buttigieg/index.html

  32. 32.

    Baud

    @Kay:

     

    If you want private sector and charitable funding to scold 7th graders it’s available.

     

    What about second graders? I find them less cynical.

  33. 33.

    NotMax

    @Baud

    It’s like no one has ever gone though an election before and remembers how they play out. This is the the time of the cycle when polls oscillate, sometimes wildly.

    But the MSM demands fodder for their horse race narrative.

    Blech.

  35. 35.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Baud: We had dinner last night with a couple from San Francisco. They’ve been watching the hearings avidly. She, at least, is a big Mayor Pete fan, which surprised me.

     

    We were in Recife yesterday, where is was hot and humid. Among other things, the guide showed us what she said was the first synagogue in the New World. She also talked a lot about Carnival and how central she felt it was to their culture.

     

    We’re at sea, on our way to Rio. We’re supposed to get rain today.

  36. 36.

    Baud

    @NotMax: Polls were kind of useless during the summer months.  We’re getting relatively close to the Iowa caucus. I don’t know if much is going to happen during the holiday season, but there will be a mad dash in January as people make their final push before voting begins.

  37. 37.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Every time I see the NYTimes on Twitter I think “but for the whistleblower we’d be 2 months into the Joe Biden Ukraine scandal by now”.  There would be furious rebuttals from Democratic pundits and pols, “explainer” pieces, but none of it would matter. We were days away from the “announcement” Trump traded that security aid for when the public found out about the whistleblower.

    They’re just irredeemably discredited to me. There’s no coming back. I regret continuing to believe they were credible after the smear job they did on Gore and then the Iraq lies, both of which were prior to the shitty, low quality Clinton coverage. Oh, well. Live and learn.

  38. 38.

    Baud

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Pete gets his share of criticism, but I can see why people like him.  I honestly don’t see him overtaking Biden, however, at least not unless progressives believe all is lost and decide to back Pete in order to defeat Biden.

  39. 39.

    Baud

    @Kay: I was pretty skeptical of their coverage of Hillary during the 2016 campaign, so I’m proud of myself for that bit of early understanding.

  40. 40.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Pete Buttigieg Called Me. Here’s What Happened

    The first thing you should know about me is that I absolutely hate talking on the phone.

    My friends, family and co-workers all know this about me. It’s not the talking that bothers me, it’s the anticipation angst from waiting for a phone call. Therapy and self-reflection have informed me that my subconscious anxiety is fueled by the fact that I’ve received news of personal and family tragedies via telephone.

    Also, talking bothers me.

    The second thing you should know about me is that I will fight.

    I don’t enjoy fighting. I don’t even fight very well. In fact, if I combined my amateur fist-fighting record, my jiu-jitsu sparring, all of my slap-boxing exhibitions, and the time Zevalon Jackson slapped me for talking smack while running a Boston on her in spades, my winning percentage is well below .500. But I believe fisticuffs are a legitimate way to settle disputes while arguments are usually pointless exercises to get one party to proclaim why the other party is wrong. I’d rather you beat me up.

    So when I received a text message from South Bend, Ind., Mayor Pete Buttigieg’s presidential campaign about an article I wrote, I genuinely hoped that he was going to send four or five of his thugs over to rough me up and that would be it. (And if you don’t believe there are Pete Buttigieg supporters out there willing to throw hands, then you probably aren’t on Twitter. I think they should call themselves the “Pete Patrol.” Or the “Buttigang.”)

    I figured one of his surrogates would argue with me for a few minutes and I could continue my day trying to be a thorn in the side of white supremacy (The third thing you should know is that I actually keep a small photo of the mouse from Pinky and the Brain beside my bed that says: “What are you going to do today, Michael?” The answer is always the same: “Fuck with white people.”)

    Luckily, as soon as I agreed to take a phone call, the phone rang. The voice sounded vaguely familiar and I knew it wasn’t a surrogate or a campaign volunteer when the person said:

    “I don’t think I’ve ever been called a ‘lying motherfucker’ before.”

    It was Pete Buttigieg.

    Well, I thought. Maybe he does want to fight.

  42. 42.

    Raven

    I brought Bohdi down to the beach in his cart. The sand is not great for an old dude but he gave it a couple of shots at the ball and that’s about all we can ask for.

  43. 43.

    debbie

    @OzarkHillbilly:

     

     

     
    I’ve seen ads from both. It’s nice they’re mostly focusing on attacking Trump. When they say they’re the best candidate, it’s because they would be the best attack dog. I like this line.

  46. 46.

    NotMax

    Has The Onion done a piece exposing the secret military program to breed hermaphrodite dogs yet?

    :)

  49. 49.

    Immanentize

    @NotMax: You are the one person who might know.  I have limited streaming channels, but I have a large urge to see, “People Will Talk” this holiday weekend.  Where might I find it?

  51. 51.

    Kay

    @debbie:

     

    I know literally anyone can say they’re a Democrat but I have to draw the line at Bloomberg:

     

    “As a Democratic candidate for president, he makes an excellent Republican donor,” quipped Pennsylvania Democratic Lt. Gov. John Fetterman, who has not yet endorsed anyone in the primary.”

     

    He has spent half his time and money actively working to defeat Democrats in races all over the country and recently. I’m not sure he’s even a net positive. That’s aside from his embarrassing promotion of career criminal Giuliani.

    “The enemy of your enemy is your friend” just isn’t true. I have yet to see it work out. If Bloomberg had gotten what he wanted there wouldn’t be an Obamacare. There wouldn’t have been enough senate votes. Tens of millions of people would not have Medicaid. The charitable explanation is he promotes his pet issues with no real understanding of how that fits into the larger picture. The more likely explanation is he opposes most Democratic economic policy.

  52. 52.

    Immanentize

    Coffee machine update.  After rewiring, cleaning, repainting the frame, replacing gaskets and o-rings, and insulating the boiler the reconditioning project on the Craigs-list Rancilio Sylvia seemed complete.  The Immp fired it up and the PID was keeping the water for coffee at a constant, perfect 96°c.  The steam stream worked perfectly at 150°c.  We tried coffee and the triple solenoid spewed hot water everywhere.  Oh no!  It was cracked inside!

    So. That was an additional purchase/cost and wait for the part for a week.  It arrived yesterday and was immediately installed, unit tested, perfect in every way.  Total cash investment: about $260 for what is now a $1,300 machine and accessories. As my dad would say — going broke saving money. But what a great project it was!

  53. 53.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    I am by no means a fan of the gnome. There’s so much more wrong with him than stop and frisk. But I say, step back and let him attack Trump at will. Every little bit helps.

    Steyer says the words “fraud”and “failure” in his ad. I can’t remember Bloomberg’s, but I’d bet there’s something equivalent. The other candidates are more focused on their programs, which is fine, but Steyer and Bloomberg both say what needs to be said about Trump.

  54. 54.

    Kay

    @debbie:

     

    The “personal” thing has become a real issue with me, too. I don’t care that Michael Bloomberg is more successful than Donald Trump and is self-made so is on some personal mission to defeat his fellow NYC rich person. I’m sick of their fucking interpersonal drama. It’s supposed to be about the public.

    Part of the Ukraine scandal revolves around Guiliani nursing a grudge that Biden made fun of him. Are they 12 years old?

    These people are holding the whole country hostage to their petty, personal battles and it is all about them.

  55. 55.

    Betty Cracker

    I just…WTF?

    Trump praising Florida's governor: "I always thought Ron was a little heavy. I always thought he was a little overweight… But then one day I patted him on the shoulder and I go, whoa, that's a lot of muscle there. And then I see him without a shirt. And this guy is strong!"

    — Philip Rucker (@PhilipRucker) November 27, 2019

    Ron SeSantis is many things, including a xenophobic shit-stain and Trump-humping moron. But he’s not particularly fat, and even if he were, why would the clinically obese POTUS call attention to someone else’s BMI? And why would he tell everyone he saw DeSantis shirtless? It’s just so weird.

  58. 58.

    debbie

    @Kay:

     

    I don’t disagree with anything you say, but I like the attacking because it will get under Trump’s skin. After the election, they call all fuck off and die.

  59. 59.

    Kay

    @debbie:

     

    I think Bloomberg is a more sophisticated donor so will salt state parties and candidates with piles of cash to push policy Right and they will take the money. He’ll have more of an impact than Steyer. He’s a control freak and what he seeks to control right at this moment is the Democratic Party. The ads aren’t free. We’ll pay for them.

  61. 61.

    frosty

    @Kay: I really like Fetterman. I don’t see enough of him in the news but maybe that’s because this blog is my main news source. :-)

    I still maintain he would have beaten Toomey in the Senate race in 2016. McGinty was the wrong kind of candidate for the PA electorate that year.

  62. 62.

    John S.

    @Kay: Ross Perot was the first to embolden these rich clowns to run for President, but Trump proved that in order to win, they had to pick the side that was most politically expedient.

  64. 64.

    germy

    @Kay:

    I think Bloomberg is a more sophisticated donor so will salt state parties and candidates with piles of cash to push policy Right and they will take the money. He’ll have more of an impact than Steyer. He’s a control freak and what he seeks to control right at this moment is the Democratic Party. The ads aren’t free. We’ll pay for them.

    Very true.  There are always strings attached when a billionaire opens his purse.  He and his friends are deeply concerned about the direction we’re taking with Warren and the others.  They want to steer us back to their comfortable middle course.  I hope he disappears like Schultz.

  65. 65.

    John S.

    @Betty Cracker: Desantis is a bit of a head scratcher. Out of the gate, he has done many things (especially on our environment) that are way out of step with the GOP.


    While it doesn’t absolve him of being a douchebag Republican, it definitely makes him better than Governor Skeletor – who I still can’t believe is one of our Senators.

     

    The Florida Democratic Party really needs to get their shit together.

  66. 66.

    Booger

    @NotMax: Saw Das Boot in the theatre first run, by myself. Walked out to the car after it ended, sat there for a minute and broke down crying. Never had a movie hit me like that, before or since.

  67. 67.

    germy

    So I haven’t been talking about this much but I’m an expert witness in several cases against Alex Jones and I’m in Austin for his deposition today.
    I’m not going to discuss it too much but if you want to know how it went, his closing statement was, “Epstein didn’t kill himself.”— Brooke Binkowski (@brooklynmarie) November 27, 2019

    Folks, I cannot emphasize enough how much this man is not taking these lawsuits seriously and has refused to do any preparation to testify. It’s an absolute trainwreck and honestly gratifying to watch, but the disrespect to the Sandy Hook parents is palpable.— Brooke Binkowski (@brooklynmarie) November 27, 2019

  69. 69.

    germy

    If you lose your job: tough shit, it's your own fault. Go learn to code, you useless fuck.

    Unless you work for a health insurance company, in which case we should structure policy around creating make-work jobs, efficiency be damned https://t.co/GUKxk89ODS

    — The Discourse Lover (@Trillburne) November 26, 2019

  70. 70.

    Baud

    AOC raised most money among House Dems for reelection campaign

    Interesting info throughout the article, including the fact that AOC has a primary challenger!

  73. 73.

    rikyrah

    The male statistic in the tweet up top would refer to White Men. And, they are quite comfortable with the boot being on everyone else’s neck, which is why they have no problems with Dolt45 ???

  78. 78.

    germy

    @Baud:  It’s an interesting thread.

     

    How many times have you had to retrain?  I’ve had to retrain many times over the past 35 years.   The job I did in 1979 no longer exists.  The technology is obsolete; I think the machine I worked on is literally in a museum now.

  80. 80.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @germy:   Yeah, they see “Staying the course” as middle of the road because what has given them so much comfort is obviously the right way to do things. Any changes might inconvenience them.

  81. 81.

    Baud

    @germy: I’ve never had to formally retrain, thank God, but I’ve had to develop new skills on my own.

     

    We can do a lot of things to make things better, and we can try to avoid making things worse, but I don’t see how we can ever guarantee that people’s jobs will remain unchanged throughout their working lives.

  82. 82.

    NotMax

    @Immanentize

    Favorite scene –

    Dr. Praetorius: Tell them when you were condemned to death for murder.

    Mr. Shunderson: The first time?

    Dr. Praetorius: Of course.

    Mr. Shunderson: Well, the first time was in Canada… in 1917. It was Christmas. It wasn’t a very merry Christmas.

    Dr. Praetorius: Don’t editorialize. Just tell the facts.

  83. 83.

    debbie

    @Booger</;

     

    Me too. It was tragic. I hated the dubbed version though. The same thing happened to me with the original Wings of Desire.

     

    I haven’t kept up, but German films (Fassbinder included) were among my favorites back then.

     

    ETA: I have no idea how this became a link. All I did was try to get rid of some of the chasm between the link to the reply-ee and my post. Never mind, it’s fine now.

  84. 84.

    germy

    @Baud:

    I’ve never had to formally retrain, thank God, but I’ve had to develop new skills on my own.

    I was never formally retrained, either.  It was always up to me to develop new skills on my own.  I was basically training myself.  The early ’80s were when Reagan set the tone for my past and future bosses.

     

     I don’t see how we can ever guarantee that people’s jobs will remain unchanged throughout their working lives.

    I agree.  But I hope that anyone going through a transition in their career, or taking time off to learn something new wouldn’t have to worry about health insurance.  Or massive COBRA bills.

  85. 85.

    Another Scott

    @Baud: My usual commenting routine here is…

     

    Type furiously…

     

    Ctrl-A

     

    Ctrl-X

     

    Click “Text” tab

     

    Ctrl-V

     

    Delete excess empty lines.

     

    Type furiously…

     

    Click “Post Comment”

     

    ;-)

     

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  86. 86.

    Kay

    I got stopped for speeding last night and I got it in my head that the trooper was faking a southern accent.  There’s a southern Ohio accent, in a set of counties, but this was not that and he was really young and I felt like he has adopted this accent because he thinks that’s how cops talk.
    I really need a vacation. I was on the side of route 6 and this is all I can think about- how he’s clearly faking a southern accent. What does it matter. Hillary might say.
    I was this close to saying “why are we acting like we’re on Dukes of Hazzard?” because I tend to mimic the person I’m talking to- match them. He’s probably too young for that!

  87. 87.

    Baud

    @germy: Most of us here don’t want any person to worry about the financial burden of getting health care at any point in their life.

  88. 88.

    Steve in the ATL

    @JPL: because fate is a cruel mistress and life is suffering, I had to enter a Walmart yesterday (Windward Parkway, so probably good by Walmart standards). OMG it was awful.  I went there immediately after Costco and my lord what a difference in retail experiences.

    On the other hand, prices were much lower than Kroger or Publix so I understand why genuinely economically anxious people shop there.

  89. 89.

    germy

    @Baud:

    True.  Remember that republican event a few years ago when an audience member shouted “Let them die!” ?

     

    It’s their philosophy.

  90. 90.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Donnie What’s-his-face on MSNBC babbled about Bloomberg this morning and how he really could be the candidate. He seemed to think that spending on ads would drive the numbers. I honestly can’t imagine anyone in the D primary choosing Bloomberg. Why would you?

  93. 93.

    Baud

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I wouldn’t, but he’s a white male with name recognition, unlimited money, and the respect of the media (at least compared to other Dems). I can see him getting a few votes, although probably not enough anywhere to earn delegates.

  95. 95.

    OzarkHillbilly

    So…. 4 refreshes and my comment @ 92 still didn’t show up. I figured FYWP and tried again @94. 92 finally shows up (i knew it would just to piss me off), but no edit on either so I can’t delete one of them. After I post this the edit will show up on one or both.

    Just to piss me off.

  97. 97.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @debbie:   Which one? Because I still see both. And no edit on any of them.

    ETA Heh. At least the edit function has reappeared. On this one anyway.

  98. 98.

    germy

    “The edit function goes in.  The edit function goes out.  Nobody can explain that.”

     

    – Bill O’Reilly

  100. 100.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I did. I don’t blame him for that. I drive a lot and my last one was 2016 so I feel like I’m due. I think I speed when I’m mentally on to the next place, you know what I mean? I leave one place and am anticipating arriving at next. Sort of zone out on the middle part. My youngest was cute- I was late for one of his things because of the ticket delay and I told him and he said “you don’t speed”. Not when you’re in the car I don’t :)

  101. 101.

    Betty Cracker

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I agree that Bloomberg won’t win, but he’s already helping to drive the narrative that Democrats can’t get too ambitious in their platform (social or fiscal) or Trump will win. Ever since the Republican Party went off the rails, there’s always someone ostensibly on our side to sing that song.

     

    I think this is another consequence of the Republican Party’s radicalization. If there were a sane Republican Party that didn’t make shameless demagoguery the core of its appeal to the base, there would be room for honest debate about taxation, the size of government, etc.

     

    Now all that debate takes place inside the Democratic Party, which is the only viable political organization in America that still cares about governing rather than using political levers to grab power and maintain minority rule no matter what. I don’t think it’s sustainable in the long term. Either they’ll break or we will.

  102. 102.

    Sab

    @Kay: I gave up speeding for Lent one year. At the time my daily commute was 70 miles round trip, mostly on the interstate. It usually took me just umder an hour one way.

    I discovered that the slower speed cost me maybe 5 or 10 minutes more time, and saved about 20- 25% in fuel. I just got into the slow lane and stayed there, so I wasn’t disrupting traffic.

    So now I pretty much never speed.

  103. 103.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: One of my younger redneck relatives (mid-20s) has dogs named Bo and Luke after the Dukes of Hazzard characters. The mid-aughts movie was a childhood favorite, apparently, not the TV show. I’m so glad I won’t have to deal with that particular branch of the family tomorrow! ;-)

  104. 104.

    Sab

    Weird in a good way: If I type a paragraph, then hit return ONCE, then indent a couple of spaces to indicate a new paragraph, it shows up when posted as with space as if I had hit return twice, but with out the indentations.

    It’s going to take me a while to train myself to always do it that way, but I really like the result.

  105. 105.

    Elizabelle

    @Sab:   Not to mention more reaction time, and more calm.  The five to ten minutes is worth it.

     

    Have some friends who are OTR truckers, and they drive more slowly than you might expect.  For all those reasons.

  106. 106.

    Original Lee

    @Kay:

     

    @OzarkHillbilly: That’s because the drones have the same physical structure for their penises as the workers have for their stingers. It’s the withdrawal that kills them both.

     

    To be fair, I didn’t know any of this until I took beekeeping classes.

  107. 107.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay:  
    @Sab:  

    I too gave up speeding. My long commutes to FLW cured me of it. I did the math and realized at best I was saving myself 5 minutes. Seeing as I always got to the jobsite 20-30 mins early anyway, what was the point? Even still tho, Thank Dawg for cruise control. It gets my lead foot off the gas pedal.

  109. 109.

    Elizabelle

    Happy Turkey Day Eve, jackals.

     

    @Betty Cracker:

     

    … all that debate takes place inside the Democratic Party, which is the only viable political organization in America that still cares about governing … I don’t think it’s sustainable in the long term. Either they’ll break or we will.

     

    Excellent comment.  And I despise Michael Bloomberg, and the FTF NYTimes and that type of mediasphere, for doing all they can to carve back the real change we need to belong among the first world nations.  We are a huge landmass and military, with our social indicators and economic mobility lagging far behind.

  110. 110.

    Gvg

    @Betty Cracker: Keep in mind that sane Republicans have been leaving that party since late Bush. Now they are Democrats and they sometimes speak up for what they want which isn’t the same as the rest of us. Some of Obama’s margin of victory in 2008 was former republicans. Some went back but Trump is an idiot about economics and the rest of the GOP not stoping him has probably driven some of them away for good. Even the tax cuts weren’t actually that helpful. Trade wars are a terrible idea.

  112. 112.

    Immanentize

    @NotMax: That whole review board scene is the  best! I am yearning for Shundersonn’s “Little Man” speech. That and the trains.

  116. 116.

    Tenar Arha

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I don’t understand why he’s running while understanding why he’s running.

    I get that he’s concerned about the Democratic Left. But if he’s so concerned about Joe Biden getting swamped by Sanders or Warren rather than the “middle lane” candidate winning, he’s making it harder for a “middle laner” to win by throwing all this $$$ into the race this way.

    I live in Massachusetts, so there is a NH media overlap. But whooee him & Steyer are throwing so much money into the race now, the stations are doubling up on their ads within ONE commercial break.

     

    ETA typo

  117. 117.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @OzarkHillbilly: Well, making you whole is a task that even the resources of the Federal government can’t do. //

     

    But if the government is going to undertake a program that takes away your livelihood they need to plan to take care of you.  It’s the right thing to do and it’s just good politics.

  119. 119.

    Gin & Tonic

    I’m sure corruption-fighter extraordinaire Rudy Giuliani will get right on this.

     

    Gontareva knows about intimidation firsthand. At the event, she was seen out of a wheelchair for the first time in months, having spent weeks in a London hospital after she was struck by a car in central London in August.
    After that hit-and-run, her son’s car in Kyiv was then set on fire. Shortly thereafter, her apartment in the Ukrainian capital was raided by police, and then arsonists destroyed her house outside of Kyiv. There have been no arrests so far, but police say they are still investigating the incidents.

  121. 121.

    Betty Cracker

    @Gvg: Yes, that’s exactly my point — the realignment has made our party tent dangerously large, IMO, not in the sense that we have more voters (though we do!) but rather that we encompass all the sane points on the political spectrum, which muddies our brand and deprives us of energy. We need a sane Republican Party. I don’t know how that happens unless the current one burns to the ground and rises from the ashes, but it’s just as likely they’ll burn us ALL to the ground.

  124. 124.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker: 

    which muddies our brand and deprives us of energy

    Why isn’t sane a good brand for the Dem party? And which set of voters are we seeking to attract with our brand?

  129. 129.

    Kay

    Bloomberg on stop and frisk: “None of us do everything perfectly. I’m sorry it happened, I can’t rewrite history. Let’s get on with it.”

    Right but also no one said you do everything else “perfectly” either.

    I didn’t even loathe this billionaire going in, it’s only been a week and I’m already sick of him.

  130. 130.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Kay: What a tell: “I’m sorry it happened.” Like you’re a neutral observer. It was *your* fucking policy, Mike.

  133. 133.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: “Sane” is essential but not sufficient as a political brand, IMO. You can’t accommodate everyone who’s sane and remain a politically coherent entity. There are costs, including rampant disillusionment and cynicism.

     

    I understand WHY this happened, and it’s not because Democrats suck or are bad at politics — it’s because Republicans went insane. I don’t know what to do about it, but I think it is a real problem.

  135. 135.

    Citizen Alan

    @Gvg: 

    To me, the most depressing thing about the 2016 elections is that I am now quite certain Obama would have lost in either 2012 or 2008 if only Romney or McCain had gone more overtly racist in their campaigns. The hardcore racists thought both of them were rino squishes.

  137. 137.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker: The harder question is whether there is some other brand we can construct that will consistently win us elections.  FWIW, I don’t think a “progressive” brand gets us enough votes.  (I’m not saying a progressive can’t be the presidential nominee; but that such a nominee (like a non-progressive nominee) will lead a party that will be too ideologically diverse to be branded progressive).

  138. 138.

    Citizen Alan

    @Eric NNY:

     

    They have gone back-and-forth over this non issue so many times.  At this point, I just wish poor Conan would come out as being transgender. That would make republican heads explode I bet.

  139. 139.

    chris

    So, if I understand this correctly, the argument against universal government-run healthcare is that some small percentage of the workforce will be out in the street. I’m trying really hard here to picture the slums of Hartford with the grubby malnourished children begging in the filthy streets.

    Or maybe that didn’t happen because of the vast new federal and state bureaucracies created to run such a program. Dog knows where they’ll find people fluent in healthcare.

  142. 142.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: IMO, that’s not hard; it’s impossible. If the party represents every big-mouthed douchebag from Donny Deutsch to Michael Moore, that means it represents no one, so people peel off.

  143. 143.

    mrmoshpotato

    @WereBear:

    But they are not buying the same things. Wal-Mart waters down their meat — up to 12%.

    Well then stop buying your meat smoothies from Walmart.

  145. 145.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker: But in the other direction, it’s always possible to go narrower and gain ever increasing purity at the cost of losing the impure and, thereby, the majority.

    Who in the coalition is willing to look beyond their particular tribe and speak up for the broader interests at stake?

  146. 146.

    WereBear

    @chris: So, if I understand this correctly, the argument against universal government-run healthcare is that some small percentage of the workforce will be out in the street.

    Not only that, it is the percentage who turns down claims for sick people, which causes suffering at best and death at worst.

    I hate to bring up the Nuremberg trials, but we did try to hang people who made people sicker when they could have cured them, didn’t we?

  149. 149.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Baud: I, for one, am looking forward to all the mass firing squads for the BC/BS case managers. You can’t make an omelet without mussing your hair, amirite?

  150. 150.

    debbie

    @OzarkHillbilly:

     

    I don’t need to speed, but I do need to get past the stupid drivers going too slow because they’re on the phone, reading the phone, eating, anything but driving. If this means speeding, so be it.

  152. 152.

    debbie

    @Gin & Tonic:

    From the limited bit I can read (no cookies for me, thank you), it would seem Russia will need to run down everyone everywhere, based on what she said, which I thought was pretty tame.

  153. 153.

    WereBear

    @Baud: I’m talking about the people who make these decisions; and some of them are low-level. Telling someone their cancer treatment is covered in-network when they know darn well it isn’t means their victims only die a financial death.

     

    Is that okay? When I know people who quit because their conscience bothered them?

  154. 154.

    Baud

    Scott Lemieux at LGM on recent polling.

     

    None of this is to say that Biden will win — his lead is far from commanding and he has unusual liabilities. And I remain skeptical that Buttigieg will be be able to be seriously competitive past Iowa. But I do think that Warren needs to stop trying to get into an escalating leftier-than-thou contest with Sanders, and they both need to focus on their most popular policies and go after Biden where he’s most vulnerable.

  155. 155.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: It’s a balancing act, and I agree it’s possible to go too narrow and lose voters that way, but that’s not where we are as a party right now, IMO. I think a lot of factors have contributed to our current state, but chiefly it’s the meltdown of the Republican Party and all the fallout from that. Can’t speak for anyone else, but I’ve tended to focus on how the ongoing train wreck affects the Republican Party, but it affects us too, and not always in healthy ways.

  157. 157.

    Jeffro

    @Baud:No other candidate reaches 4%, meaning the poll does not result in any changes to the lineup for the Democratic National Committee’s December debate. A cluster of four candidates stand at 3%, including the latest entrant to the race, former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg. He is joined by Sen. Kamala Harris of California and businessmen Tom Steyer and Andrew Yang. Sens. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota and Cory Booker of New Jersey have 2% each in the poll.

     

    It’s past time for Klobuchar and Booker to get out and throw their support (as best they can) to their preferred candidates – I’m assuming this would be Biden and Harris, respectively.

     

    The rest of the middling crowd just need to get out, period.

  158. 158.

    Baud

    @WereBear:

     

    We’ve tended to say we care about working class jobs. But if we’re going to start making exceptions for jobs that are part of a bad system, then I’d like to start with extractive industries like coal mining whose workers support the GOP religiously.

  159. 159.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker: We’re not too narrow now, but I also don’t think we’re too large yet either.  I wish we were in a more progressive place than we are, but I also believe that, as a group, progressives blew it during the Obama years and especially in 2016.  So I try to accept the way things are and build from there.

  160. 160.

    WereBear

    @Baud: I was throwing out a question about ethics in business, which these days qualifies as an oxymoron. I know some percentage of health insurance employees go to work, rubber stamp mayhem for the company, and go home again.

     

    If they lose their jobs, why should I care?

  161. 161.

    Jeffro

    @Betty Cracker: Yes, that’s exactly my point — the realignment has made our party tent dangerously large, IMO, not in the sense that we have more voters (though we do!) but rather that we encompass all the sane points on the political spectrum, which muddies our brand and deprives us of energy. We need a sane Republican Party.

     

    I would like them to be sane, but if they choose not to, then I’m perfectly happy for the Democratic Party to occupy the center 60% of the political spectrum (skewed slightly – 40% L, 20% R).  The key is to keep pointing this out, loudly, publicly, and often.  We’re the center-center party at this point and our positions, generally speaking, are supported by large majorities of Americans (sometimes even majorities of Republicans, a la universal background checks).

     

    We need to push hard on all their stupid “radical Left” sloganeering. Most Republicans can’t even say ‘Democrats’ anymore without adding ‘radical Left’ or ‘far Left’ or something.  It’s dumb but it works.  We’re not the radicals – we’re the centrist party in this country.

     

    (And no Mike Bloomberg, you are NOT a centrist candidate)

  162. 162.

    Bruce K

    WRT Baud and Betty (I’m too tired to figure out how to tag two different people properly): Perhaps might it be almost time for the Democratic Party to undergo some sort of mitosis, into its moderate (really, sane conservative) wing and its liberal wing? Not quite time, of course, because before that’s a non-suicidal option, the 21st-century GOP has to be obliterated as a force in American politics, which is probably going to take at least a generation to clear out the rot from the judiciary…

  163. 163.

    Baud

    @WereBear: 

    Up to you whether you care. The number of things I care about could fit in a thimble. But the Democratic Party cares because a lot of those jobs are in bluish areas, and there are a significant number of jobs (and thus votes) at stake in this debate.

  164. 164.

    Another Scott

    @Jeffro: Why does any serious* Democratic candidate need to get out now?  It’s 68 days until Iowa votes, polls of these things at this point in the process are pretty bad at picking the nominee, and we really haven’t seen how the candidates behave under pressure yet.

     

    It’s still early.

     

    My $0.02.

     

    Cheers,

    Scott.

     

    * – a word doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

  165. 165.

    Baud

    @Bruce K: I think if we could get the GOP to stop being a force, then the Dems would split into two.  But when people want to engage in premature mitosis, it only emboldens the GOP.

  166. 166.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    Well, call me a bleeding heart then. I care. I’m not a Republican so I am not indifferent to the plights of my fellow citizens. Even if they were Trumpists, I don’t wish unemployment or other difficulties on others. I’ve been there, maybe that is why.

  168. 168.

    WereBear

    @Baud: I understand the strategy. It’s another instance of how it’s okay to hold the economy hostage; but not a convenience store clerk. It’s okay to kill people… if a corporation does it.

     

    If we don’t kill that attitude it will rise again and again. I’m starting somewhere. Nazis had typists and we know what they typed.

  169. 169.

    Baud

    @debbie: You are a bleeding heart.

     

    @WereBear: It’s not either/or.  I expect there are ways of increasing medical coverage without immediately putting many people out of work.  It’s the flash-cut to M4A rather than the end state that’s the major source of the conflict.

  170. 170.

    Another Scott

    @debbie: We have Schrodinger’s Editing here.  ;-)

     

    Try refereshing about 5 times.  Then post another comment.  That usually causes the edit line to activate.

     

    :-/

     

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  171. 171.

    WereBear

    @Baud: Which seems overblown to me: this isn’t like flipping a switch. It’s going to take a long while to move everything over, and aren’t there jobs all through that transition?

     

    Better jobs?

  172. 172.

    Baud

    @WereBear: Sanders’ plan calls for a flash cut in 4 years, I believe.  I can’t recall what Warren said about it in her new transition plan, but I think she said she wants to pursue M4A in her third year.  The devil is in the details, but that’s pretty quick given the size of the health care economy.

  174. 174.

    Jinchi

    I’m not saying the gap isn’t large, but if men support impeachment 40% to 53% and women support it 63% to 34% then the only way you end up with a 40 point gap is if the scale runs  from -200 to +200.

  176. 176.

    J R in WV

    @Baud:

     

    Sanders’ plan calls for a flash cut in 4 years, I believe. I can’t recall what Warren said about it in her new transition plan, but I think she said she wants to pursue M4A in her third year. The devil is in the details, but that’s pretty quick given the size of the health care economy.

    I’m pretty sure both of them have at least mumbled about the transition taking 10 years. For sure Senator Warren talks about costs over 10 years. I try to avoid “Senator” Sanders because he gives me a pain in my ears, but also think he is talking a gradual transition over several years.

  177. 177.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    Bloomberg on stop and frisk: “None of us do everything perfectly. I’m sorry it happened, I can’t rewrite history. Let’s get on with it.”

    the policy let the police TERRORIZE Black and Brown men FOR YEARS…..
    EACH of those stops could have turned bad and turned the Black or Brown man into a phucking HASHTAG….

    But, ‘ let’s get on with it’?

    PHUCK.OUTTA.HERE.

  178. 178.

    James E Powell

    @Kay:

     

    They’re just irredeemably discredited to me. There’s no coming back. I regret continuing to believe they were credible after the smear job they did on Gore and then the Iraq lies, both of which were prior to the shitty, low quality Clinton coverage. Oh, well. Live and learn.

     

    I believe every Democrat ought to throw those things in the face of the NYT every chance they get. We should never talk of the NYT without mentioning that they gave us Bush Jr., Roberts, Alito, Trump, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh, and they not only felt no regret, but bragged about it.

  180. 180.

    mrmoshpotato

    @JPL: Dump is delusionally tweeting again.

     

    Wonder what it’s like to look in the mirror knowing that you voted for a needy manchild.  And 62+ million people will do just that for the rest of their lives.

  181. 181.

    Baud

    @J R in WV: I had to look it up.  Here’s what I found, which may or may not be correct.

     

    Warren:

    Every successful effort to move the United States to create and expand new social programs – like Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid – has required multiple steps. In fact, every credible Medicare for All proposal has a significant, multi-step transition built in. That’s why it’s important to have both short-term goals and long-term goals to guide the process and to deliver concrete improvements to people’s lives at every stage.
    I believe the next president must do everything she can within one presidential term to complete the transition to Medicare for All. My plan will reduce the financial and political power of the insurance companies – as well as their ability to frighten the American people – by implementing reforms immediately and demonstrating at each phase that true Medicare for All coverage is better than their private options. I believe this approach gives us our best chance to succeed.

    Sanders says almost nothing on his website.  Here’s what Vox says about Bernie’s plan.

    Those who qualify for the new universal Medicare plan would get four years to transition into the new coverage. In the interim, they would have the option to buy into Medicare or another publicly run option that does not currently exist.

  182. 182.

    Gin & Tonic

    @JPL: For God’s sake, put a trigger warning on that image. I was about to eat lunch, but I think I’ll poke my eyes out instead.

  187. 187.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Baud: As a Democratic voter, I have done that at every level in virtually every election.  Obama is about as close to ideal as I have seen and he was shitty on education.

  189. 189.

    Citizen Alan

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

     

    Agree to disagree. Personally, I think the moment McCain lost the election was when that crazy bitch at a campaign rally accused Obama of being a Muslim and a terrorist sympathizer and he very gently said “No, ma’am. I know him, he’s a Christian and a good family man.”

     

    And that’s how you ended up with that guy who resignedly told an interviewer “sigh, I guess I’ll vote for the n****r.”

  190. 190.

    Princess

    @Betty Cracker: I’m going to guess that whatever health issue is happening, some doctor has said something about Trump’s weight gain, thus the creepy deSantis talk and the Rocky photoshop this morning.

  191. 191.

    WereBear

    One last thing and I’ll stop and this thread will fade soon anyway:

     

    How We Do Harm: A Doctor Breaks Ranks About Being Sick in America by Otis Webb Brawley

     

    Brawley’s personal history – from a childhood in the gang-ridden streets of black Detroit, to the green hallways of Grady Memorial Hospital, the largest public hospital in the U.S., to the boardrooms of The American Cancer Society—results in a passionate view of medicine and the politics of illness in America – and a deep understanding of healthcare today.

    He tells a story of a woman he saw in the emergency room, after the party where her last child graduated from high school. She’d found a lump but while it was diagnosed, it was not treated. She had insurance from her job (single mother) but to use it meant losing the job, then the insurance, then the apartment, the food, everything that kept the kids still in school. So she didn’t say anything. She just worked, got the kids all graduated, and showed up to see what could be done now that her babies were okay.

    The answer was nothing could be done. She had weeks to live.

    So when people say “but the jobs!” I understand how important that is. But then I think of this woman, and what she suffered year after year, because she was the only one who cared enough about her children to sacrifice her very life for them.

    And the lost job doesn’t seem like such a big deal, anymore.

  192. 192.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @WereBear: The custodians in the insurance offices keep the place open, clean, and functioning.  Fuck them too?  How far down the chain do you want to go?

  194. 194.

    WereBear

    @Omnes Omnibus: Who have they hurt? No one. Our numbers wonk who explains how the economics works hasn’t hurt anyone either. Nor do they want to.

     

    I guess you’ve never been on the phone with someone on that 800 number pleading to get an answer about whether having that horrible pain investigated is going to be covered or not, and getting evasive answers. Someone who refuses to email anything that would settle the matter because “these things move in and and out of network all the time.”

     

    One Juicer, the lady who moved back to Britain? She shared that an emergency flight to check out her husband’s severe chest pains was disqualified from coverage because when all was said and done, he didn’t have a heart attack. Talk about your good news/bad news.

     

    So they were given a massive bill that collapsed their life here. Could never get on their feet again, after years of trying. And she had another country to flee to.

     

    I’m also thinking of her.

  196. 196.

    debbie

    @WereBear:

    They don’t set the policy, though. That’s where the anger should be directed: at those so callous and indifferent to others that they feel free to make such horrendous policies.

    Frankly, your view (if I’m reading it correctly) is the mirror of those of the assholes who voted for Trump just to hurt libtards.

  197. 197.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @WereBear: Sorry, if your point is that our healthcare system is fucked up and unsustainable I am with you.  If you think grunt workers in the insurance industry deserve to be fucked over because they work in insurance, we disagree.

  198. 198.

    WereBear

    @Omnes Omnibus: I never said that.

     

    I said I can’t get upset about the health care industry losing jobs because the people with skills can get other industry jobs. I mentioned specifically the people responsible.

     

    But I understand. You’ve never had a life collapse and someone die because of the Republicans and their enablers. And that’s who I am lumping in: not just the CEOs and the politicians who are outright traitors. It’s also the people at the call center who are trained to torment people for money: and they keep that job. They could get another call center job, couldn’t they?

     

    Why should I weep for THEM? They are doing the dirty work, and at lousy wages, too.

  200. 200.

    Jay

    @debbie:

     

    in the entire history of economic sector realignments, due to both policy changes or “market forces”, while we have had lip service paid to retraining, transitional incomes and “healthcare” being provided,

     

    none of which of course was ever provided, ( enough of, or the right kind, or long enough), which is why you have formerly unionized line welders peeing in bottles at Amazon hopeing the robots don’t kill them today.

     

    First time in my life that pundits, billionaires and politicians are saying that an entire “industry” cannot be killed off to make something “better”, because won’t somebody think of the poor Cratchit’s?

     

    “Are there no prisons? … And the Union workhouses? … The treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?”

     

    Over the course of my life, the most notice/cushion “society” has ever given me when they disappeared an entire economic sector, was a year. 4 years notice would have been wonderful, maybe even enough time and funding to get a new degree/DCM, rather than “getting” a 6 month bs. “Retraining”.

  202. 202.

    WereBear

    @Jay:

    First time in my life that pundits, billionaires and politicians are saying that an entire “industry” cannot be killed off to make something “better”, because won’t somebody think of the poor Cratchit’s?

    Exactly. How compassionate they are all of a sudden!

  203. 203.

    debbie

    @Jay:

     

    First time in my life …

    They said the exact same thing about coal mining, steel plants, auto workers, etc., etc. This is nothing new.

  204. 204.

    Jay

    @debbie:

     

    funny thing, uncles and cousins were all coal miners or support staff, not one word was ever said about protecting their industry because of their jobs, but that was 30 years ago,

     

    for a while, I was an autoworker, only thing said about my job going away was how good it would be for Wall Street and the TSE.

     

    technically, not true, my Union made a stink, but that was about it. According to the politico’s and pundits, we, ( union workers) had to take one for “the team”.

     

    ditto for the Steel Plants.

     

    sure, Dolt45 made some bs. noise about coal, steel, auto in 2016, but those jobs were all long gone by then. At the time when they were leaving, ( automation, cheap labour countries, etc) nobody said we had to keep them. Instead they all had to go because “market forces, globally compeditive, Wall Street, Masters of the Universe”.

     

    so it’s funny seeing a well funded and lubricated punditry, political class, investor class saying that 10 million people have to keep dying, 40 million people have to keep going bankrupt, because M4A will eliminate Sally’s job as a Claims Processor for Deny, Redtape and PreExisting LLC, ignoring the fact that:

     

    a) M4A will need to hire tens of thousands of Claims Clerks,

     

    b) the For Profit Medical Insurance Industry will do just fine selling top up, platnium and indulgent medical insurance plans to Companies and Individuals that can afford it. You would be amazed how profitable medical insurance becomes, when commie leftist socialist Healthcare for All covers all the “must have to keep from dying” medical, and the platnium plans just have to cover teeth whitening, calf implants and hair plugs.

     

    One would think that after Enron, Iraq, Torture Memo’s, Debt Securitization, Ben Gazhi,…… all of the media enabled fiscal, political and economic cons run on the Marks of America, that by the time of Ttump, sniffing out a con would be second nature to most,

     

    but it’s not.

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