Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

“Squeaker” McCarthy

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

I didn’t have alien invasion on my 2023 BINGO card.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

Infrastructure week. at last.

No one could have predicted…

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

Everybody saw this coming.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

You are here: Home / Healthcare / COVID-19 Coronavirus / Paging Dr. Fauci…

Paging Dr. Fauci…

by | 174 Comments

This post is in: , , ,

If you heard about the CDC testing guidance yesterday and thought WTF, well, here’s why:

(CNN) A sudden change in federal guidelines on coronavirus testing came this week as a result of pressure from the upper ranks of the Trump administration, a federal health official close to the process tells CNN.

“It’s coming from the top down,” the official said of the new directive from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The new guidelines raise the bar on who should get tested, advising that some people without symptoms probably don’t need it — even if they’ve been in close contact with an infected person.
Previously, the CDC said viral testing was appropriate for people with recent or suspected exposure, even if they were asymptomatic.

It makes sense, if your goal is to provide cover for the Trump administration’s massive failure on testing. Maybe not so much if the objective is to prevent more Americans from getting sick and spreading the disease.

Trump and his toadies have made the calculation that they can get a dead-cat bounce from the economy if everyone goes back to school and work, and identifying outbreaks early stands in the way of that strategy, so they just tweaked the testing guidelines.

Has anyone seen Fauci? Last I heard, he was recovering from vocal cord surgery. No, really.

Open thread.

 

Reader Interactions

174Comments

  1. 1.

    Kent

    Southern universities are learning the hard way what happens when you don’t have robust testing protocols in place.

    Fucking idiots.

  3. 3.

    Victor Matheson

    Fauci is definitely recovering from vocal cord surgery. He was supposed to speak with students at my college (his alma mater) in a couple of weeks and has postponed to later in the semester.

  5. 5.

    lowtechcyclist

    If you heard about the CDC testing guidance yesterday and thought WTF, well, here’s why:

    I’m only hearing about it right now, but WTF indeed.

    This may be the point where Dr. Fauci should resign.  Should he really stay and continue to give the Administration his imprimatur if they’re gonna pull shit like this?

  6. 6.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Seriously, they waited for Fauci to be incapacitated to pull this crap?

  7. 7.

    Betty

    This is flat out wrong advice. It will be up to state and local officials to ignore it and do what they know is right. Sorry about Florida though.?

  8. 8.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Kent: “Idiots” is what I am thinking too. Lack of testing isn’t going to change the death rate.

  9. 9.

    MattF

    The CDC needs a ‘Trump’ font. Any policy printed in the Trump font should only be read by individuals who have pledged personal loyalty to Donald Trump.

  12. 12.

    catclub

    @Betty: This is flat out wrong advice. It will be up to state and local officials to ignore it and do what they know is right. Sorry about Florida though.

     

    I looked at the JPL coronavirus website where they show each state for case, percent positive, and testing rate.

    Mississippi has the highest percent positive, and I think the lowest testing rate. 1/3 to 1/4 the rate of other states. Mississippi is also highest nationwide on the ‘new cases/100k population’ 7 day avg.

  13. 13.

    mrmoshpotato

    @MattF: Is there an orange font that makes English look like Russian?  Ya know, with Dump being a traitorous, orange, Soviet shitpile mobster conman and all…

  17. 17.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    Video shows the police on scene letting him escape, as well as prior to the shooting thanking the militia members for being there and giving them water.

    When police welcome armed ‘militia’ and are hostile to unarmed protesters, they’ve taken sides and are just another gang.  That’s the point where defunding really might be the only good option.

    That would have to be in conjunction with the formation of some new law enforcement entity more directly responsible to the civilian elected officials, because having a police force really isn’t something you can do without.  It’s just that some police departments may be beyond reformation.

  18. 18.

    Hoodie

    They’re creating Potemkin statistics to go along with the fairy tale they’re putting out at the RNC. We’re already seeing clusters galore here in NC and the number of cases (if they test for them) will start to rise again after a bit of a falloff. We’ll probably also see similar increase for kids going back to elementary, middle and high schools in places with in-person instruction. Many, if not most, of those will be asymptomatic, so of course they don’t want to test for asymptomatic carriers. They’ll comfort themselves that a vaccine will come along and bail them out so people won’t see what transactional monsters they are.

  22. 22.

    Baud

    The new guidelines raise the bar on who should get tested, advising that some people without symptoms probably don’t need it — even if they’ve been in close contact with an infected person.

    So if only people with symptoms get tested, won’t that drastically increase the positivity rate and make Trump look worse?

  23. 23.

    WaterGirl

    Where are the people of principle in all these institutions?

    Do they all have the same savior complex?  “I am so important, I am staying in the way, keeping worse things from happening?”

    You know what would stop all this?  Sunlight.  When you are pressured, say so.  Give up your job, do what’s right, and keep some dignity.

    It’s not just the institutions that have failed us.  It’s the people in the institutions.  Starting with Robert Mueller.

  24. 24.

    MisterForkbeard

    I’ve been unable to follow any of this (Kamala’s event today, Kenosha, etc.) because there was a work emergency that woke me up at 5:30 AM and it’s only calmed down 6 hours later. That said, let the OT commence:

    • Hooray for Kamala! If I can watch this event, I will. Always love seeing her – she just has a joy and determination about her. Clearly my political crush over the past year.
    • The Kenosha shooter business is really bad. Dude showed up at shot 3 people. Cops treated him with kid gloves before the event (even thanking his group for being there) and refused to act after he started shooting. The crowd had to stop him. Pretty sure they only arrested him because he was immediately identified and on video.
    • Josh Marshall has a point that we really need to stop any riots as fast as we can – polling is showing that white support of BLM and the protests is starting to fade, and this is a big part of it. Also hard to do, given that the marches and protests are largely peaceful while the rioters are a completely different set of people.
    • The RNC is a giant dumpster fire of lying, fascism, and poor production values. Oh, and literally breaking the law (Hatch Act), to which Meadows has literally responded “No one cares”.

    Nice.

  25. 25.

    dmsilev

    Little known fact: Until the invention of the pregnancy test, nobody ever had any children.

  27. 27.

    Martin

    Trump further signaling his control over the govt. CDC and FDA both providing bad guidance. Trump campaigning from the WH.

    @WaterGirl: That’s what Chris Hayes was arguing years ago. Our inability to hold institutions to account has let them run wild. They are increasingly places where bad actors go because it’s safer to cheat and steal from inside the institutions than from outside of it.

    That’s got to be pretty near the top of the Dem agenda if we win. Turn norms into laws, and start prosecuting.

  28. 28.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Kent:

    And it was all obvious all the way back in April this shit would happen. I guess football (and that sweet student housing cash) is just too important to some people

    I’ve heard of families with kids in HS moving to other states just so their kids can play football. I can’t imagine the mindset of people willing to uproot their lives just so their sons can play football. There has to be some “living vicariously through their children” to that

  29. 29.

    lowtechcyclist

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Oh, and literally breaking the law (Hatch Act), to which Meadows has literally responded “No one cares”.

    Laws are for the little people, don’t’cha know?  Especially the little people on the ‘wrong’ side from their perspective.  If a GS-9 organizes a Biden fundraiser, they’ll come down on him/her like a ton of bricks.

  30. 30.

    Gin & Tonic

    @WaterGirl:

    Give up your job

    Easy to say, hard to do. Not sure about Fauci, who’s older than dirt, but if you have a mortgage and kids in college, that’s a heavy lift.

  31. 31.

    The Moar You Know

    The CDC’s credibility is finished, as is the FDA’s.  Which, of course, was one of the goals.

  33. 33.

    Martin

    @Sister Golden Bear: Wearing latex gloves. He left he house intending to shoot someone.

    Kenosha police are fucked. Nobody should ever trust them again. Tear the PD down and start over. Have the mayor call the gov to  request state support and disband the PD tonight.

    The protesters are now going to come out armed, and who could blame them for that response.

  34. 34.

    Aleta

    Timing of this announcement for schools and college communities is so bad (and suspicious).

  36. 36.

    Martin

    @lowtechcyclist: A Biden AG can indict them after they’ve left office. They may think that everything now is free and clear because Barr has their back, but that’s now how it works. Statute of limitations for federal crimes by default is 5 years.

  37. 37.

    raven

    @Martin: What does wearing latex gloves have to do with planning to shoot someone? I’m pretty sure it was after he had shot one person but the video I saw shows him on the ground and, I think, the guy who died grabbed the barrel of the AR but he hung on to it and fired. There second guy took a round in the arm.  I’ll say it again, do not grab the barrel of a weapon and try to wrestle it away from someone unless you have no choice.

  38. 38.

    cmorenc

    @Kent:

    Southern universities are learning the hard way what happens when you don’t have robust testing protocols in place.

    Fucking idiots.

    The prime driver for Trump Admin’s pressuring CDC into reducing testing isn’t idiocy, it’s pure callous sociopathy – they don’t really care that better testing is a strategic necessity toward containing the CV pandemic, or to accurately track infections, they only care that more testing will produce higher numbers and reinforce the public impression of their failed management of the crisis.  It’s only idiocy if actually resolving the COVID pandemic was among their prime objectives, as opposed to fraudulently selling the notion that it’s already well on its way to resolution.

    Of course, their tactic of suppressing accurate tracking and information only works if they actually do succeed in bamboozling the public before the election into the impression that COVID is receding and with it, the economy starting to recover and re-bloom.  Doesn’t matter to them that if they succeed in selling this impression and manage to eke out re-election, that over next winter and spring the actual results disastrously aggravate the pandemic and economic decline.  They will have four years to consolidate their power relatively unconstrained by the rule of law and further undermine the possibility of future democratic elections.  Winning and power is what matters to them.

  39. 39.

    Chris Johnson

    @Kent: That, or literally trying to explode the pandemic as hard as possible using every and any means at their disposal while denying everything.

    Talk of treason has meaning, folks. Trump can be stupid and narcissistic, but he is not in control here.

    You ask, do we have a Putin that wants to point and laugh? Or do we have a Putin that wants to crush this country and kill vast numbers of Americans, leaving the rest demoralized and battling insane QAnon terrorist actions, against the backdrop of an infrastructure that has been intentionally sabotaged in every imaginable way as hard as possible?

    I see the latter. Pisses me off. I want that to FAIL. Just because he wants it doesn’t mean it will happen. But we must consider the idea that the Executive Branch is fighting against America as hard as it possibly can, having escalated past the point where it felt a need to maintain plausible deniability. They’re on to ‘implausible denying’, also known as stalling for time while placing bombs and killing as many as they can.

  40. 40.

    patrick II

    Colleges are back in session, with varying degrees of in-person classroom work. According to the NYTimes front page interactive map (you may want to check it out even if you hate the NYTimes) North Carolina State at Chapel Hill has 835 COVID cases already.  Indiana University, where my nephews attend, has 12.  I do not know the difference in their approach, or social environment, but that is a big difference.

  41. 41.

    Baud

    @raven:

    What does wearing latex gloves have to do with planning to shoot someone?

    I would think the loaded gun is more of a tell.

    do not grab the barrel of a weapon and try to wrestle it away from someone unless you have no choice.

    Didn’t you say the shooter had already shot someone?

  42. 42.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @WaterGirl: Let me make sure that I am understanding what you are saying.  You would have everyone at the CDC resign at this point?   I presume you would also include State and Justice.  Where would you draw the line and say that it is okay for someone to continue working for the US government?

  43. 43.

    Chris Johnson

    @cmorenc: No. Winning is not plausible at this point. Destroying the country is now the objective and that is what drives their actions. This is not politics at all anymore, it’s warfare.

  44. 44.

    WaterGirl

    @Gin & Tonic:  I’m not talking about every worker who does the day-to-day stuff.

    But if you can’t do the right thing when it’s hard, then you shouldn’t be in a position of responsibility.  And you certainly don’t belong anywhere near the top of an organization where where you do has more impact than the bottom line for some private company.

  46. 46.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @WaterGirl:

    I had a grown middle aged man tell me the other day that, in response to being told that the FDA was bullied into approving convalescent plasma treatment for COVID-19, “people in the government can’t be bullied. You watch too much press”.

    My response?

    “Sure, buddy.”

    I mean, what else was there to say? I’m not sure it was naivete as much as this guy drinking the koolaid. I just can’t believe a grown man actually said that.

    It began when he was coming through my checkout line yesterday. He made a comment about getting tired of having to wear a mask. Which is fine, everybody is. I said “yeah, everybody is.” Then he said it won’t be much longer; a vaccine will be approved.

    I responded by saying it probably wouldn’t be until a year from now when things get back to normal and that it would take time to manufacture and distribute a vaccine. Guy had an answer for everything:

    Vaccine will take time?

    The military will jump in and speed everything up and clinical trials are already underway.

    He said “convascent plasma has shown a significant degree of effectiveness”.

    I objected by saying that there have been no randomized trials.

    He apparently didn’t understand what I was saying and brushed it off with, “science has all sorts of new techniques” or something to that effect

    Just magical, delusional thinking.

    That “you watch too much press” comment made me think I was talking to a MAGAt

  48. 48.

    WaterGirl

    @The Moar You Know: Yes to your first point.  Yes to your second point.  And yes to your third point.

    People have been drawing the roadmap to authoritarianism – starting at least 4 years ago – and the good people at the top were apparently paying no attention.

    Or they certainly weren’t willing to stand up and do anything to prevent it.

  49. 49.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @raven:

    What does wearing latex gloves have to do with planning to shoot someone?

    Ordinary, I’d say not to leave any prints on the gun/bullet casings. But this guy was publically shooting people

  50. 50.

    TKH

    There has been a series of failures at both the CDC and the FDA Right from the beginning and they are not only at the political level, aka the hacks the orange fart cloud selected to “lead” these organizations. It started with the test that had to be invented in the USA in order to be good enough to be used in the USA, the failure to allow tests other than the PCR tests or the insistence on other tests being as sensitive as the PCR test.

    There were people in the professional ranks who had their cranium so far up their rectum that they could not see what was important.

    Hopefully in Spring there will be a reckoning not only at the top but also in the professional ranks. pour encourager les autres.

  51. 51.

    raven

    @Baud: I think so but I’m not sure. There are people chasing the dude and one guy punches him from behind. People do yell that “he shot someone” so probably.

  54. 54.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Martin: Yeah, but Hatch Act violations are basically punishable by:

    • Reduction in access or a note in your file
    • Demotion or firing
    • A $1000 fine

    In a Biden administration, the first two won’t apply because they won’t be working for the government any longer. And Pompeo, Melania, others aren’t going to care about a measly $1000 fine and they can whine about being a victim.

    They decided to break the law because the consequences can’t be high enough for them to matter.

    @raven: Thanks for that. Like I said, it’s been a nasty day and I was relying on some things I’d seen here and (sadly) on FB.

  58. 58.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    Trump continues his war on science, expertise, and reason:

    Emily Miller, a gun-rights advocate and former senior correspondent for the right-wing One America News Network (OANN), has been appointed as assistant commissioner for media relations at the embattled Food and Drug Administration, Miller confirmed in a tweet.

    It’s unclear what Miller’s qualifications for the FDA post are. In her career at OANN, she was accused of fabricating quotes from Hillary Clinton and peddling conspiracy theories alleging that the Obama administration used “smart gun” technology, which permits only authorized users to access a firearm, as a way to “track law-abiding citizens.”

     

    h/t https://www.salon.com/2020/08/26/former-one-america-news-correspondent-emily-miller-gets-senior-fda-post/

  60. 60.

    Feathers

    Need advice from any breadjuicers. Decided to bake bread. Put in oven to rise. Forgot about it for 3.5 hours. Am going to bake as experiment. It’s a the easy rustic no knead bread. Was supposed to rise for an hour.

    Should I just skip the second rise at this point?

    ADHD FTW!

  62. 62.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Martin:That’s got to be pretty near the top of the Dem agenda if we win. Turn norms into laws, and start prosecuting.

    Interesting question for the lawyers: There’s no way to make these retroactive crimes, right? They might be able to change the punishment for existing laws (2 weeks in the slammer for a Hatch Act violation would be nice), but I don’t know if that’s feasible either.

  63. 63.

    Just Chuck

    We need to get Luntzian about our language when it comes to Trump.  Don’t say “Donald Trump did this”, or “Donald Trump thinks that”.  It’s “Donald Trump and the Republican Party”.  Donald Trump and the Republican Party failed us with the COVID epidemic.  Donald Trump and the Republican Party are fomenting white supremacist violence.  Donald Trump and the Republican Party are systematically dismantling the USPS.  Donald Trump and the Republican Party have conspired with an enemy state to subvert our elections.  And so on.  Never mention one without the other.  God knows they’re helping us along with that “platform”, but they’re drowning and we need to throw them some anchors.  Chain them together so they go down together.

    Suggest it to your Congresscritter as well.

  67. 67.

    Chyron HR

    @MisterForkbeard:

    We can bring them in under the legal principle of One Bad Appleus: All criminal offenses, no matter how small, warrant summary execution by the police.

  68. 68.

    Martin

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Doesn’t mean he didn’t think he could get away. He came in from IL into a community where likely nobody would recognize him. So long as nobody caught him on camera and he didn’t leave prints, how would they find him? And he fled right back home.

    I’m not suggesting that a 17 year old militia member is going to have a watertight plan, but I’m at a loss why he’d otherwise be wearing latex gloves. They’re uncomfortable to wear for an extended period of time, he’s clearly not concerned about Covid. Why’d he put them on?

  70. 70.

    Another Scott

    https://covid-101.org/science/covid-exposure/

    I was possibly around someone who had COVID-19. Should I get tested?
    Brad Kern, PhD

    Published: August 4, 2020

    Brad Kern, PhD

    If you’ve been exposed to someone who has COVID-19, you should definitely self-quarantine for 14 days and get tested if you develop any of the symptoms.

    There are two main types of COVID tests, and the viral (PCR-based) test tells you if you have COVID right now. The viral test is very reliable in people with symptoms. For people who get sick with COVID-19, symptoms tend to appear 2-14 days after exposure, with most people getting sick around days 4 to 6.

    If you don’t have symptoms and still want to be tested, getting tested between 4 and 7 days post-exposure should be about right for the majority of infected people. If you get tested any sooner, you probably won’t have enough virus in your body to show up on a test.

    However, getting tested just once doesn’t’ mean you’re in the clear. This first test will miss infections that develop a bit later after you were exposed. Ideally, exposed people who do not have symptoms and had one negative test should get tested again about 4-5 days after their first test, just to be safe. But, it might not be possible to be tested more than once due to local testing availability and delays in getting test results. Ask your local health department or healthcare provider for guidance.

    Regardless of whether you can get tested or not, you should self-quarantine for a full 14 days after being exposed to an infected person. If symptoms do appear, contact your doctor.

    Last update: August 2, 2020, 9:00 pm ET

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/testing-overview.html

    Considerations for COVID-19 Diagnostic (Molecular or Antigen) Testing
    If you have symptoms of COVID-19:

    […]

    If you have been in close contact (within 6 feet) of a person with a COVID-19 infection for at least 15 minutes but do not have symptoms:

    You do not necessarily need a test unless you are a vulnerable individual or your health care provider or State or local public health officials recommend you take one.

    A negative test does not mean you will not develop an infection from the close contact or contract an infection at a later time.

    You should monitor yourself for symptoms. If you develop symptoms, you should evaluate yourself under the considerations set forth above.

    You should strictly adhere to CDC mitigation protocols, especially if you are interacting with a vulnerable individual. You should adhere to CDC guidelines to protect vulnerable individuals with whom you live.

    (Emphasis added.)

    I’m not seeing anything to get outraged about in the revised CDC guidance. It seems very similar to the COVID-101 guidance and information I’ve seen elsewhere. Testing needs to be done understanding the details of when it’s best to be taken, when it’s best to be re-taken, what the results mean (and whether the person is infectious or not), etc.

    YMMV.

    To be clear, I have no doubt that CDC is under tremendous pressure to find ways to minimize the numbers. But I think they are pushing back as best they can.

    I haven’t seen how the CDC press people are spinning this – maybe they’re saying things different from the web pages.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  72. 72.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Omnes Omnibus: Right, but what about changing the punishment for an existing crime? That’s not criminalizing after the fact, it’s an administrative decision on how to handle the existing crime.

    IANAL, so maybe there’s not a distinction there.

  73. 73.

    Roger Moore

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    I’ve heard of families with kids in HS moving to other states just so their kids can play football. I can’t imagine the mindset of people willing to uproot their lives just so their sons can play football.

    I could understand people moving for sports if their child is one of the elite few who have a chance to make it as professionals.  I could even imagine it if they see it as their child’s best chance of getting a college education.  People move all the time to let their kids take advantage of the best schools academically; it shouldn’t be a surprise if people who think their kids have a real shot athletically do the same.  Doing it during a pandemic when participating in sports is a real health risk seems a little more out there, but especially with football some health risk is already priced into the decision to participate.

  74. 74.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @WaterGirl: Everyone needs to answer the question:  Am I doing more harm than good by remaining?  It can be a tough question to answer.

  77. 77.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Wyatt Salamanca:

    In her career at OANN, she was accused of fabricating quotes from Hillary Clinton and peddling conspiracy theories alleging that the Obama administration used “smart gun” technology, which permits only authorized users to access a firearm, as a way to “track law-abiding citizens.”

    I believe those were her qualifications for the FDA job.

  78. 78.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @raven:

    More like cue “It was self-defense! A mob was chasing him! It was justified!”

    That’s what’s the Twittertron comments are saying on the video

  79. 79.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Omnes Omnibus: on the very specific question of a vaccine and the very specific case of Dr Fauci, I vote he stays where he is and can keep an eye on what’s going on

  81. 81.

    Martin

    @MisterForkbeard: That’s not really the point, at least for someone like Trump. For Trump, you just need permission to dig, because  you’re guaranteed to find more serious crimes if you do.

    For Kellyanne, yeah, probably not, but the Trump spawn, Jared, etc. Start with Hatch Act, go for in-kind contributions and other violations of election law, coordination with Kanye’s campaign, and so on. And any 2016 collusion should still also be fair game – if they move quickly.

  83. 83.

    The Pale Scot

    @Chris Johnson:

    Or do we have a Putin that wants to crush this country and kill vast numbers of Americans, leaving the rest demoralized and battling insane QAnon terrorist actions,

     

     

    Alexander Vladimirovich Yakovenko was awarded the Order Alexander Nevsky Medal on return to Moscow, for deploying Alexander Udod to infiltrate UKIP and Sergei Nalobin the Conservatives

     

    “We have crushed the British to the ground, they are on their knees and they will not rise for a very long time.” Aleksandr Yakovenko, summing up Russian achievements during his tenure as UK Ambassador, 2011-19.

    Twitter

     

    Ya think?

  84. 84.

    Mike in NC

    Mike Dense set to appear tonight and lie his face off about the great success of the pandemic task farce.

    Got an email that stated that none other than Erick Erickson — is he still around? — just knows that black men are going to rally around Trump because something something. Who can possibly deny that EE has a finger on the pulse of the African-American community?

  85. 85.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Martin:

    You’re probably right. He probably didn’t think this through. It’s just hard to imagine not getting caught on camera these days

  86. 86.

    Kent

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    And it was all obvious all the way back in April this shit would happen. I guess football (and that sweet student housing cash) is just too important to some people

    I’ve heard of families with kids in HS moving to other states just so their kids can play football. I can’t imagine the mindset of people willing to uproot their lives just so their sons can play football. There has to be some “living vicariously through their children” to that

    Yep.  That’s been in the news a bit here in the Portland area.  A couple of top prospects headed south with their families to play football.  Also one to play basketball.

    That’s not a new thing though.   When I taught HS in Waco Texas the school I taught at was a football powerhouse that went to two state championship games in the past decade.  The first one we narrowly lost to a team quarterbacked by a kid named Baker Mayfield.

    During the time I taught there we had several kids show up from other states, mainly to play football.  The funny thing was that two of them were quarterbacks and didn’t end up playing much because they were actually worse than the local boys despite what their psycho dads thought.   Uproot your family and move to at Texas football factory so your kid can sit on the bench.  Hah.   During the 9 years that I taught there, every single starting QB over that period went on to play major college ball, as did a ton of other players.  For a while I couldn’t turn on the TV on Saturdays without seeing ex students of mine.

  87. 87.

    Subsole

     

     

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Typically ut’s to prevent leaving powder residue/DNA/prints.

    As you say though, shooting people in public would seem to cancel that need.

    It is possible this man is not a tactical genius.

  89. 89.

    patrick II

    @raven:

    Normally if I knew someone was wearing gloves and carrying a weapon I would think it was to lessen gun residue evidence. But given the circumstances of the shooting, who knows?  He’s seventeen should be at home doing homework,  not carrying a military weapon.

  92. 92.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @The Pale Scot:

    I’m guessing the long-term effects of climate change and the ultimate survival of humanity didn’t figure into Aleksandr Yakovenko’s or Putin’s plans did they? I wonder how they’d respond when confronted with that?

    Because destabilizing advanced nations and the global order? Kind of makes it hard to coordinate global actions to address global problems. Just saying.

  93. 93.

    RobertB

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): A full free-ride scholarship is big bucks.  And by their junior year in high school, parents can make a pretty good guess at whether or not a scholarship is a possibility for their kid.  Also, by that time the parents and the child have spent a lot of time and effort to make that scholarship happen.

    Personally I don’t think that it’s a wise choice, but I can see arguments for it.

  95. 95.

    Martin

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): If you are a low income black family, it’s entirely possible that looks like the best path out. Not that moving is generally in the cards for a low-income family.

    Around here it’s pretty routine for people to move a neighborhood or two over to min/max the supposed best elementary/middle/high schools. It’s a $50K or so commitment in closing costs in order to move from the #20 ranked HS in the state to the #18 ranked HS. It’s bananas.

    And I hate to have to tell them that college admissions is increasingly based on local context – so the uni doesn’t care that they went to a better HS – they care if you were the top students in your HS. So by doing this all they’re actually achieving is increasing the competitiveness by consolidating all of the type-A students/parents in one place. Had they stayed in the slightly worse ranked school, their odds of getting into a given school goes up.

    In short, if you want your kid to get the most admissions offers, go to a lower-achieving school. The goal of the state unis is to even out the quality across the public school districts, but parents keep not hearing that message.

  98. 98.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @raven:

    Granted, but it worries me that I see that response so much. And social media is great at spreading misinformation and propaganda as we’ve discovered

    This and the Q-Anon stuff scares the hell out of me. What if some day they become the majority?

  99. 99.

    laura

    I cant help but think that there is a direct line between Dylann Roof and 17 year old Johnny Gun Jr Murder – and the LEO that would treat each of gently, unlike the innocent Black Americans each killed or hoped to kill. The sickness that is endemic in our fellow Americans and their desire to kill based upon melanin makes no sense. None at all.

  101. 101.

    Subsole

    @raven: I’m sure every swinging dick and bouncing tit in that outfit wants the press to know they TOTALLY had doubts about the guy who almost landed them in the shit after he got caught. Yes.

  103. 103.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Martin:

    What good will money be in a world where several regions become inhospitable to human life where hundreds of millions of people live? Do they think that will be good for the world economy? And what kind of life would be worth living under those conditions? Russia won’t fare better than anyone else. No one will be untouched.

    Sustained droughts, forest fires, extreme weather will become the norm. Hell, they already are now. Climate science thought none of this would happen for another 40-50 years

  105. 105.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Martin:

    I think you’re right but the stories I hear about young white men becoming radicalized scare me sometimes

  106. 106.

    Kay

    @WaterGirl:

    It’s just that it’s always portrayed as the employee searching his or her conscience and coming to some arrangement they can live with, and that’s not really the issue. The issue is they have an elaborate, written code of conduct they have to follow and it includes various duties to report:

    (11) Employees shall disclose waste, fraud, abuse, and corruption to appropriate
    authorities.

    It’s 97 pages long. It covers every imaginable ethical dilemma. They are not, actually, supposed to be making individual, subjective decisions on what reaches their personal ethical code limit. They’re supposed to be following these rules.

  108. 108.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    What good will money be in a world where several regions become inhospitable to human life where hundreds of millions of people live? Do they think that will be good for the world economy?

    Your sense of long-term is different that someone like Putin.  You’re young and long-term is 50 to 70 years.  Putin, 30 maybe, after that he’s dead and don’t care.

  109. 109.

    H.E.Wolf

    @Feathers: 
    Probably too late to this party, but maybe helpful for the next time:

    Punch the dough back down, let it rise in the loaf pan(s) until doubled – set a timer for yourself, sez the voice of sad experience – and then bake.

  110. 110.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kay: Okay, I report unethical conduct and, because the people in charge are Trumpies, nothing happens.  Now what?  That’s the dilemma.

    ETA:  An individual’s conscience is always involved.

  111. 111.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @WaterGirl:

    There should be a million people in government publicly running around “with their hair on fire” not trying to privately how awful he is.

    Alexander Vindman, Miles Taylor, Sally Yates, Mary Trump, Michael Cohen, Marie Yovanovitch, John Bolton, Fiona Hil, Jeff Flake, William MacRaven, James Clapper, even James Comey and Omarosa. There’s no shortage of people telling us how awful he is. The problem isn’t that people don’t know, it’s that a solid third of the country doesn’t give a fuck .

  112. 112.

    Yutsano

    @Omnes Omnibus: He crossed a state line to make some trouble because he thought he was defending his fellow cops. I bet because he was a junior patrolman the Kenosha police treated him with velvet gloves. Then he ran back home because he might get in trouble and the Illinois police took him into custody for murder and illegal gun possession. Now the self-defence MAGA idiots are out. Pretty sure he’ll try to claim it now.

  113. 113.

    WaterGirl

    @H.E.Wolf: I had a similar issue on Sunday.

    I went ahead and baked, and the bread fell in the middle.  Your advice is good.  I should have punched it down and started over, but I was too impatient.

  114. 114.

    Kay

    @WaterGirl:

    I don’t see any exceptions for “I’m adding more value by staying”. I mean, arguably anyone can say that. I certainly hope you’re adding more value by staying in your job than you would no longer coming to work. Thus, they set standards so people don’t have to struggle with all these questions:

    Standards of
    Ethical Conduct
    for Employees
    of the
    Executive Branch
    Final Regulation Issued by the
    U.S. Office of Government Ethics
    Codified in 5 C.F.R. Part 2635
    As amended at 81 FR 81641 (effective January 1, 2017)

  115. 115.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    I see your point, but I think a lot of the bad shit may happen within his lifetime too. He will live to see it. And he has children for god’s sakes. He should do the right thing for them if nothing else

  116. 116.

    patrick II

    @raven: 

    You may not like to hear it, but no one should be carrying military weapons in civilian life. Being seventeen just makes it worse. And being seventeen and thinking you are the hero who is going to hold off the dark-skinned people hordes makes it even worse. The fact that will eventually and inevitably happen is why no one should be carrying them.

  117. 117.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Growing up, if there’s one thing I’ve learned is that you can do your best, but sometimes your best isn’t good enough and you still lose. That’s what I’m afraid of

  118. 118.

    The Moar You Know

    the Q-Anon stuff scares the hell out of me. What if some day they become the majority?

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):  Goku, you’re not the only one worried about that. Those people scare the shit out of me. It’s a fucking religious cult combined with multiple hardcore conspiracy theories and that’s a really bad combination.

  119. 119.

    Another Scott

    @Kay: Thus, they set standards so people don’t have to struggle with all these questions.

    Yes, but there are always grey areas, even when they enumerate all that stuff.

    A colleague once said that “There are things that are illegal, and there are things that are ILLEGAL.”

    It’s really hard to be a whistle-blower when one sees other whistle-blowers not being protected by the same system of rules and norms that list all of the norms and rules.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  120. 120.

    Kay

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    But the people on top didn’t report anything, even after they told us they were having these anguished dilemmas about staying or going. They don’t have a choice. They have to report and get fired or these rules don’t mean shit. It’s a “shall”. There’s nothing after the “shall”. Doesn’t matter at all if the next guy is worse. They’re not given that discretion.

  125. 125.

    Kay

    @Another Scott:

    It’s really hard

    Oh, it is. But we all should be clear that these are (now) suggestions and if a person decides it’s better for the country if they disregard them, they may do that.
    This is the Comey approach. He was not actually supposed to be making the (bad) decisions he made. They made it objective and rule-bound so we wouldn’t be as vulnerable to good or bad decisions. We’re not supposed to be relying on if they’re “good”. I don’t know if they’re “good”. We rely on the rule.

  129. 129.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kay: Right, we’ve established that the people at the top of this administration are pieces of shit.  What about the next level down?  Or the one below that?

  132. 132.

    Kay

    @Another Scott:

    Donald Trump says his decisions on rule-following are good for the country. Can everyone do that?

    So we’ll just have to trust that individuals are acting in our interest. They say they are! Who could question that, other than their giant rule book, I mean.

  135. 135.

    Subsole

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): They’ll be dead. The check is your problem, suckers.

    More seriously, I was lying awake this morning while insomnia kicked my ass, and I started wondering.

    Pretty much everyone alive today lived their lives under the threat of nuclear annihilation.

    Telling them climate change will destroy the world may not have any impact on some people because they grew up just kind of expecting the world to be destroyed…

    Dunno. Just an insomnia thought…

  136. 136.

    Feathers

    @H.E.Wolf: Thanks. I let it rise about half the time and baked. Somewhat gummy, but edible. I factored in how hungry I was. Decided to bake because out of bread. Thanks again for the advice. I’m now curious if that would have improved, but not going to waste a batch of bread dough.

  137. 137.

    Another Scott

    @Kay: I’m saying it’s not black and white.

    95%** of the people at CDC had nothing to do with the revision of the testing guidelines announced a couple of days ago.  How many of them should resign?

    ** – 98.3732% of all internet statistics are made up.

    I understand your talking about processes and the need to follow the rules, and Comey was the perfect example.  But that doesn’t mean that everyone else in the FBI was somehow complicit.  Or even that the people who did know and understand what he was doing was complicit.  It doesn’t follow at all.

    Someone who has dedicated their lives to public service should not have to walk the plank when a monster is their boss.  Sometimes, that’s what the boss wants…  (Look at all the Inspectors General that have been forced out.  Are we better off now that they’re all gone?)

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  138. 138.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Milwaukee NBA players sit out play-off game in protest

    Shams Charania @ShamsCharania ·17m
    Bucks players formalized decision pregame to boycott Game 5 against Orlando, per sources. Magic players wanted to play, but then returned to locker room.

  139. 139.

    Kay

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Well, we don’t have to decide. It’s in the rules. This was not left up to their individual discretion. The choice they’re making is not to “stay in their jobs”. The choice they’re making is not to follow these rules. The result of that choice is “keeping their job”, but they’re now outside the rules.

  141. 141.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kay: Did you ever agree to a continuance because someone said he was ill and then find out that he wanted to go fishing?  Did you report the guy when you found out?

  142. 142.

    Kay

    @Another Scott:

    I’m not saying resign. I’m saying if they have ethical guidelines or rules that precludes this and includes a duty to report they have to do that. They don’t get to control the outcome. There’s no part of that that reads “unless something bad happens after reporting”. Or not. But if it’s not then they’re outside the rules.

  143. 143.

    Another Scott

    @Kay: I think you’re reading too much into these rules.

    It’s never a one-step thing.

    Hypothetical – Suppose I think that the head of my agency is making an illegal decision.  What do I do?  Well, I can notify my boss (who is several levels below the agency head); or I can complain to the IG; or I can go outside the system (member of Congress, the press, NextDoor, etc.).

    If I do those things and nothing happens, am I forced to resign?

    No.

    Am I complicit if I do not resign?

    No.

    Are others complicit if they don’t resign?

    No.  Maybe I misinterpreted the situation.  Maybe the others checked and figured that he made an abominable decision, but one that wasn’t illegal or against his/her discretion in the office.  Maybe other, non-nefarious, things are going on.  Maybe the agency head wants to go into some sort of arbitration to present his side or appeal any adverse ruling or whatever.

    I’ve done my part.  I brought the concern to others, they decided what happened – not me.

    You get the idea.

    There’s rarely a “you violated Rule 23 Subsection 123.34(b)2 therefore you are OUT!” situation.  It’s always a process.  Even when it seems clear as day to normal people.

    Good civil servants shouldn’t have to walk the plank for having horrible bosses.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  144. 144.

    Feathers

    One thing that worries me about the Kenosha shooter is that we have basically been training kids to do this with all those active shooter drills. Studies have shown that cops who are tased during training are more likely to used their taser in the field. I am sure that the active shooter drills have the same effect on an admittedly small number of children.

    One of the hard truths about policing and criminal justice is that they are just making this shit up as they go along. No double blind studies, no research on what is actually effective, just whatever some asshole dreamt up and decided to teach to everyone else. By the time something is discovered to be counterproductive, it is completely entrenched, with a lot of money on the line, and an active lobbying arm.

    An example: grief counselors. This was thought up by someone who had experienced PTSD. He did not have psychology training, but started volunteering and training volunteers to do grief counseling after traumatic events. No research, just lots of positive stories on the evening news.

    After 9/11, researchers realized that this was the perfect test case for looking at grief counseling. What did they discover? That while it may help those who have risk factors for PTSD, most people recover through their own resilience. And grief counseling interfered enough with those people’s natural grief cycles, that you ended up with more PTSD than would have happened without the grief counseling. It turns out that having people who actually witnessed an event share their stories and recollections of people who had near misses dramatically deepens the trauma for the near miss population, which is much larger than the actual witnesses.

    Defunding the current police and designing a much more modern and research based criminal justice system is what we need.

  146. 146.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Another Scott: As I understand it, Kay is arguing that the rules are there for a reason and one shouldn’t substitute one’s own judgment.  I don’t think anyone disagrees as a general matter.  I think that you and I are saying what happens if someone follows the rules but result that should happen does not follow. What does a civil servant do then?

  148. 148.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Houston and OKC join the boycott/strike

    Shams Charania @ShamsCharania 8m
    Decision made. Thunder and Rockets are boycotting Game 5, sources said.

  150. 150.

    Another Scott

    @Omnes Omnibus: +1

    There may indeed be some talking past each other.   The Rules are part of The System and when the rest of The System is being corrupted, it doesn’t automatically follow that The Rules are the only option to make things better.  (“Good Trouble” and all that.)  Nobody drawing up The Rules was seriously considering a situation where the Executive would refuse to honor his/her oath and all the rest of the bad things we’ve seen the last 3+ years…

    (There’s probably some Animal Farm or 1984 analogy that can be inserted here.   And “the Constitution is not a suicide pact”, also too.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  151. 151.

    A Ghost to Most

    @Martin:

    Those of us who grew up in the white nationalist environment are not nearly as confident in this assessment as you seem to be.

  153. 153.

    Jinchi

    The new guidelines raise the bar on who should get tested, advising that some people without symptoms probably don’t need it — even if they’ve been in close contact with an infected person.

    Lying to advance your own interests is one thing, but Trump is just constitutionally incapable of not shooting himself in the foot.  His constant attempts to keep his numbers low are literally why his numbers are so high.

  154. 154.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    LeBron James @KingJames
    FUCK THIS MAN!!!! WE DEMAND CHANGE. SICK OF IT

    Radley Balko@radleybalko · 18m
    Apparently, Pence was planning to criticize “taking a knee” in his speech tonight. The Milwaukee Bucks just put their own livelihoods on the line for their cause. Contrast to Pence, who once spent $325K of taxpayer dollars to make a show of angrily walking out on an NFL game.

  156. 156.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay: I’m a Federal employee, and I don’t get what you’re saying.

    Suppose decisions are handed down from above that look hinky to me.  I look up the rules (I haven’t given them a look since new employee orientation a couple decades back), they tell me who to report it to, I do, and nothing happens.

    Now, do I stay or do I go? The rules don’t cover that. That’s strictly a personal decision.  I must follow the rules with respect to anything suspicious I see while I’m still there, but once I’ve reported everything I’ve seen, and I’m out the door and am not seeing anything anymore, they no longer apply.

  157. 157.

    Jinchi

    @Omnes Omnibus: Lying to advance your own interests is one thing, but…

    An agency where everyone quits in protest will be an agency rapidly refilled with partisan hacks. I completely agree that the senior ranks of federal agencies should be pushing back hard, but there have been a lot of people quitting the federal government lately as the Republicans have gotten more hostile. On some level the work has to get done, even if the leadership falters. If they all quit in protest, there will be nobody for Biden to call on when he takes over. We cannot have a civilian workforce that turns over every time the party in power changes.

    And people have stood up to Trump’s agenda. They’ve been fired. After a while, all you’re going to be left with are the true believers.

  158. 158.

    Jinchi

    @lowtechcyclist: Suppose decisions are handed down from above that look hinky to me.

    And most of the things we’re talking about don’t even fit that category.

    “I disagree with CDC guidance…..”. Complaint noted, but where is the violation in that instance?

  161. 161.

    Kay

    @Omnes Omnibus:

     what happens if someone follows the rules but result that should happen does not follow. What does a civil servant do then?

    There’s this huge completely unfounded assumption in that.

    The employee who reports is not responsible for the outcome. Why would anyone think they would be? They don’t have to get to “what if I report and nothing happens?” All they have to do is what they’re required to do. Then their part is done.
    For the higher level employees they could report as a group. They’re not going to fire or target all of them!
    The one and only reason the whistleblowers are so exposed is because they are alone. Why was Vindham all by himself? It’s an entirely different scenario if it’s 9 Vindham’s, all at the same time.
    The whistleblower blows the whistle. Then his or her role is complete. They don’t determine the outcome and no one in their right mind would hold them responsible for it.
    These are smart people. Surely they figured that out.

  163. 163.

    Kay

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I have a friend who is a dentist. Dentists are mandated reporters. He reported suspected child abuse. They interviewed him and he gave a statement. He doesn’t know what happened after that. It was substantiated, it wasn’t substantiated, someone was convicted, whatever. All that is out of his hands and no one holds him responsible for it. He did his duty. The rest is not his.

  165. 165.

    sgrAstar

    @Martin: “So long as nobody caught him on camera and he didn’t leave prints, how would they find him? And he fled right back home.”

    You’re not an aficionado of  detective fiction, obvs. ?

    ?

  166. 166.

    Aleta

    @Omnes Omnibus: what happens if someone follows the rules but result that should happen does not follow. What does a civil servant do then?

    How would you answer that question yourself?  Giving your opinion directly may  bring  a discussion closer to your point of interest.

  167. 167.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay:

    For the higher level employees they could report as a group. They’re not going to fire or target all of them!

    Isn’t that exactly what DeJoy recently did at the USPS?

    True, there was no reporting issue involved. But that’s irrelevant.  He was willing to fire two dozen high-level managers all at once.

  169. 169.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay:

    All they have to do is what they’re required to do. Then their part is done.

    The rules may tightly limit their agency in terms of what to do as employees, but they certainly don’t deny them the agency to choose to cease to be employees if they decide they don’t want to stay.

  170. 170.

    Bill Arnold

    Trump and his toadies have made the calculation that they can get a dead-cat bounce from the economy if everyone goes back to school and work, and identifying outbreaks early stands in the way of that strategy, so they just tweaked the testing guidelines.

    The is premeditated mass murder for the perceived possibility of GOP electoral gain.
    It won’t even work, which makes it premeditated mass murder by the GOP for no gain, except LOLZ for those so inclined.

  171. 171.

    Bill Arnold

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Oh, and literally breaking the law (Hatch Act), to which Meadows has literally responded “No one cares”.

    Meadows needs some personal destruction. He is an evil man. And the GOP is literally running on LawAndOrder in this election.

  172. 172.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    @rafah: I remember a few sci-fi authors who used the meme of “he died of heart failure” = “he was killed/murdered, but his heart *did* fail, and that lack of a heartbeat was what convinced us he was gone.”

    So, obviously, I’ll imagine their deaths will be recorded as heart failure, not pneumonia.

     

    @WaterGirl: I agree, and have felt that way since Comey handed the election to Trump. The Republican caucus was clearly bullying Comey, and he let it happen, rather than taking a stand and refusing to follow the corrupt demands of a corrupt caucus.

     

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I believe that firing most guns puts residue on your hands, which can be detected for a time afterward. Rubber gloves would (I assume – but I don’t know for sure!) prevent that.

    Of course, given how the story played out, it might not be either of those things.

     

    @Kay: I suspected that might be the case, and that’s one thing that *really* bothers me about the Ukraine debacle. There was one, repeat one, single, solitary person who spoke up and said “this ain’t right”. It seems that there should be dozens who were obligated to step up, and deliberately failed to do so.

  173. 173.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    @The Moar You Know: What’s more scary is that they’re making Trump out to be a hero, the sort of hero where you can put up with the corruption and lawbreaking, and instead say “but he’s protecting *children* and chasing down *monsters*”.

    The Republicans don’t see any danger to this, obviously – they’re willing to let their followers think that 20 judges made ridiculous mistakes in applying the law, to murder an innocent woman, because it made them more attractive to their followers. And they’re still trying to get Donnie “one day, like a miracle, it just disappears” Boy a second term, rather than pointing out the obvious “Qanon is bullshit, and ya’ll are stupid for not realizing it.”

  174. 174.

    Another Scott

    https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/26/new-covid19-testing-guidelines-crafted-at-white-house-alarm-public-health-experts/

    […]

    Admiral Brett Giroir, assistant secretary of health and human services and the administration’s testing tsar, told reporters Wednesday that “all the docs” on the task force signed off on the new guidelines.

    It quickly became apparent that was not true. When the guidance was finalized last Thursday, Fauci, a task force member and director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, was undergoing surgery to remove a polyp from his vocal cords.

    […]

    The decision comes days after Hahn, the FDA commissioner, issued a controversial emergency use authorization for convalescent plasma, an antibody-rich infusion that is being widely used to treat severe Covid-19 cases.

    The treatment has not been proved to be useful in a placebo-controlled clinical trial, but Trump called a Sunday evening news conference — on the eve of the start of the Republican National Convention — to trumpet the treatment as a major breakthrough. Hahn suggested it had been shown to reduce mortality by 35%, later walking that claim back.

    An earlier emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine — also heavy touted by the president — was later rescinded when trials showed it didn’t improve survival and may have been harmful for some patients who received it.

    At the CDC, time and again science-based guidance written by the agency has been revised in Washington by political staff. For instance, when churches were allowed to reopen for in-person services, the CDC had recommended against the resumption of choirs. That and other parts of the church guidance were ordered changed, reportedly by the office of Vice President Mike Pence.

    “There is a pattern here that has occurred over a number of topics for both agencies over the period of recent weeks that is making a lot of people in the public health community at state and local and federal levels doubt the scientific integrity of these agencies — which is the worst thing that we can have happen to us in terms of public health credibility,” Osterholm said.

    Yup. They’re politicizing the decisions, and lying about it.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

Comments are closed.