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Hot air and ill-informed banter

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You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

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Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

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A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires

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You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Biden-Harris 2020 / Captain Queeg phones Fox Business

Captain Queeg phones Fox Business

by Betty Cracker|  October 8, 202011:45 am| 310 Comments

This post is in: Biden-Harris 2020, Domestic Politics, Open Threads, Politics, Republican Stupidity, Trumpery

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Well, Trump has always been a stupid, offensive jerk with more powers of projection than every shuttered cineplex combined and multiplied by infinity. So, day ending in d-a-y and all of that, but I do think the president of Red America is becoming more unhinged by the hour:

Trump refers to Kamala Harris as "this monster" pic.twitter.com/hcnUpV8PBf

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) October 8, 2020

Maybe he’s just mad because Senator Harris started off the debate like this, “Thank you Susan. Well, the American people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country.” But back to this day that ends with a d-a-y and Trump’s lunatic interview/primal scream this morning with fawning sycophant Maria Bartiromo on Fox Business. CNN:

“She’s a communist. She’s not a socialist, she’s well beyond a socialist,” he said, going on to make false, fear-mongering claims that Harris wants to “open up the borders to allow killers and murderers and rapists to pour into our country.”

Left unanswered were the many open questions about Trump’s condition, which weren’t asked by his pliant interviewer. He did not address what his lung scans showed, didn’t say when he last tested negative and wasn’t asked how high his temperature reached at the end of last week, when he was airlifted to Walter Reed.

Instead he sought to paint himself the picture of health.

“I’m back because I am a perfect physical specimen and I’m extremely young. And so I’m lucky in that way,” Trump said. Trump, at 74, is clinically obese and has known heart issues.

As absurd as that is, maybe that wasn’t even the craziest part, fellow citizens:

He listed three senior members of his administration who he said have displeased him, for different reasons. Some, such as FBI Director Christopher Wray, have irritated Trump for months. But his criticism of Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was new.

“I’m not happy about him, for that,” Trump said of his top diplomat for not surfacing emails he says were deleted by his 2016 rival Hillary Clinton. He also went after Attorney General William Barr, who he said would go down in history as “a sad situation” if he doesn’t prosecute Trump’s political rivals.

“Bill has got to move,” he said, suggesting time was running short for his administration officials to use their offices to go after his opponents.

Trump also declared himself no longer contagious and vowed to get back on the campaign trail next week. He’s nuts. None of the cowardly assholes around him will step up and put a stop to this dangerous farce.

Election Day is 25 days away. If, FSM willing, Biden wins convincingly, we’ll still be stuck with a humiliated nutcase in the White House until noon on January 20. I don’t mind admitting that worries me, but this is the best case scenario, so I guess we’ll have to buckle up.

Open thread.

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Reader Interactions

310Comments

  1. 1.

    Immanentize

    October 8, 2020 at 11:46 am

    Bringing this up from dying thread — did y’all see this?

    "The FBI thwarted what they described as a plot to violently overthrow the government and kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and federal prosecutors are expected to discuss the alleged conspiracy later Thursday." https://t.co/btjGkOfPet via @detroitnews— Garance Franke-Ruta (@thegarance) October 8, 2020

  2. 2.

    Miss Bianca

    October 8, 2020 at 11:48 am

    Look, ‘rona, you had ONE JOB…

  3. 3.

    Miss Bianca

    October 8, 2020 at 11:48 am

    @Immanentize: fuck

    ETA: Another reminder, in case I needed one, that however I may hate the right-wing crazies here in Colorado, NOT to get nostalgic for my old home state of Michigan any time soon…

  4. 4.

    catclub

    October 8, 2020 at 11:49 am

    given that he talked for an hour on the phone, I think the fond hopes for a relapse of lung failure are unlikely to be fulfilled.

  5. 5.

    MisterForkbeard

    October 8, 2020 at 11:49 am

    The unilateral (and against all medical knowledge) “I’m not contagious anymore!” is just mindblowing.

    Seriously, he’s insane. Probably still on his dexameth high.

  6. 6.

    Mike in NC

    October 8, 2020 at 11:49 am

    Fat Bastard has now set his sights on Barr and Pompeo for not arresting Obama and Biden. He’s fucking up on the roof and threatening to jump. Please proceed, plague rat!

  7. 7.

    cope

    October 8, 2020 at 11:50 am

    After the past eleventy million gazillion jillion years of the trump presidency* I’m good with “best case scenario”.

  8. 8.

    Cheryl Rofer

    October 8, 2020 at 11:50 am

    Great title, Betty!

  9. 9.

    Baud

    October 8, 2020 at 11:52 am

    One saving grace is that once he loses, he loses a lot of power as a lame duck.  He’s already started losing some of that in anticipation of a loss, which is why he’s attacking people like Pompeo and Barr.

  10. 10.

    localcomment

    October 8, 2020 at 11:53 am

    Good news from central NY! Claudia Tenney’s plan to ride the trumpmentum to victory is not working as planned.
    Siena poll: Brindisi, D-Utica, leads Tenney, R-New Hartford, 48-39% among likely voters in an eight-county district that covers parts of Central New York, the Mohawk Valley and Southern Tier.

    A third-party candidate on the ballot, Libertarian Keith Price, is favored by 4% of likely voters. About 9% are undecided. The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 5 percentage points.

  11. 11.

    Immanentize

    October 8, 2020 at 11:53 am

    @Miss Bianca: I will see your fuck and raise it one “shit gettin real”

  12. 12.

    Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)

    October 8, 2020 at 11:53 am

    My best hope is that a few days after he goes down hard, he just skips off to Moscow and we can be done with the shitstain.

  13. 13.

    Alison Rose

    October 8, 2020 at 11:54 am

    I’m sure the “Kamala is a cop!!!!!!” folks got a chuckle out of “she’s well beyond a socialist.”

  14. 14.

    Crashman06

    October 8, 2020 at 11:54 am

    @Baud: That won’t actually work, right? I mean, Barr won’t actually try to arrest his political opponents, will he?

  15. 15.

    Immanentize

    October 8, 2020 at 11:55 am

    @localcomment: Brindisi already stomped her once.  Masochist!

    What happening up north in the Stefanik race?

  16. 16.

    Barbara

    October 8, 2020 at 11:55 am

    @Miss Bianca: Terry Nichols, Timothy McVeigh, and company “trained”  in Michigan.

  17. 17.

    L85NJGT

    October 8, 2020 at 11:55 am

    Obergruppenführer Steiner could not be reached for comment.

  18. 18.

    Elizabelle

    October 8, 2020 at 11:55 am

    @Cheryl Rofer:   I just knew it was Ms. Betty Cracker, as soon as I saw that title.  And salivated.

  19. 19.

    Baud

    October 8, 2020 at 11:56 am

    @Crashman06:

    No, I don’t think so.  The feds need a grand jury indictment and if there were a grand jury looking into anything, we’d probably have heard about it by now.

    Plus, Barr is smart enough to know arresting anyone only helps Biden.

    ETA: Barr couldn’t even get Durham to release his report before the election.

  20. 20.

    zhena gogolia

    October 8, 2020 at 11:56 am

    @catclub:

    Now I’m back to thinking he never had it.

    Anybody talking about his taxes or Melania’s tapes? I thought not.

  21. 21.

    JPL

    October 8, 2020 at 11:56 am

    @Immanentize: Press Conference at one.   How soon will trump start tweeting about Antifa?

  22. 22.

    scav

    October 8, 2020 at 11:56 am

    Fox News has rediscovered one of the profit centers of Bedlam: exhibiting the inmates for fun, profit and amusement!

  23. 23.

    Crashman06

    October 8, 2020 at 11:57 am

    @Baud:

    Good to know. Thanks.

  24. 24.

    gvg

    October 8, 2020 at 11:57 am

    I am no expert on narcissist, but I am guessing everyone that criticizes one is “a monster”. Everything revolves around him.

  25. 25.

    Baud

    October 8, 2020 at 11:57 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    Kamala brought up taxes last night.

  26. 26.

    JPL

    October 8, 2020 at 11:58 am

    @mkraju
    just asked pelosi if it was time to invoke the 25th amendment
    @SpeakerPelosi
    said she’ll talk about that tomorrow

  27. 27.

    p.a.

    October 8, 2020 at 11:58 am

    Depends on how many rats jump ship and when.  Fascists hate losers, but: Saruman after Orthanc still did damage.

  28. 28.

    MattF

    October 8, 2020 at 11:58 am

    Wikipedia has an article on decompensation, and an article on narcissistic rage. There would be problems even if he wasn’t hopped up.

  29. 29.

    BruceFromOhio

    October 8, 2020 at 11:58 am

    …we’ll still be stuck with a humiliated nutcase in the White House until noon on January 20.

    Biden and Harris will be getting the same briefings as the WH by then. Harris is already getting the intelligence briefings. Between being informed, and giving all of the rats permission to abandon ship because preznit shitwhistle is getting sacked, the risks have *some* controls around them. Not perfect by any reckoning, but the little shitstain will be abusing a shrinking set of powers from the moment the EC numbers are established.

    It has to be a convincing defeat. Anything short will increase the risks, and sorely test those controls.

  30. 30.

    randy khan

    October 8, 2020 at 11:59 am

    Anybody else getting the hydroxychloroquine ad at the top of the page?  I reported it to Google, but if anybody else is seeing it, it would be a public service if you did the same.

  31. 31.

    catclub

    October 8, 2020 at 11:59 am

    @Immanentize: wow. thanks

  32. 32.

    hells littlest angel

    October 8, 2020 at 12:00 pm

    If, FSM willing, Biden wins convincingly …

    I remember a time when “convincingly” would have been completely unnecessary in a statement of this type.

  33. 33.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 12:00 pm

    But his criticism of Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was new.

    “I’m not happy about him, for that,” Trump said of his top diplomat for not surfacing emails he says were deleted by his 2016 rival Hillary Clinton. He also went after Attorney General William Barr, who he said would go down in history as “a sad situation” if he doesn’t prosecute Trump’s political rivals.

    This is the part of the Frankenstein movie where Boris Karloff strangles Igor and then destroys Von Frankenstein’s laboratory.

  34. 34.

    jonas

    October 8, 2020 at 12:02 pm

    @Immanentize:  a plot to violently overthrow the government and kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer

    Those antifa agents provocateur posing as right wing terrorists are really good! Fooled the FBI!

  35. 35.

    Searcher

    October 8, 2020 at 12:02 pm

    You know, it would probably have been a far more effective use of the RNCs budget to build an actual media bubble for Trump to live in.

    A fake twitter populated by bots to retweet and like him, visible only to the few dozen people Trump talks to himself.  A fake Fox News only broadcast to him, staffed by real Fox News hosts, which constantly talks glowingly about him and where he can call in all day long to his heart’s content.

    For five, maybe ten million they could have kept him completely out of the public eye.

  36. 36.

    Amir Khalid

    October 8, 2020 at 12:03 pm

    Someone should tell Trump that being so openly terrified of Kamala Harris does nothing for his manly image.

  37. 37.

    Kay

    October 8, 2020 at 12:03 pm

    I’m not worried about him once we get past the election. The low quality hires will scatter, looking for work, and he’ll go back to Florida and stay there. It’ll be like caretaker government – just career people- and that’s much better than what we’ve had for 4 years.

    I’m also not as worried as other people are about the election process- the vote gathering and counting. There will be a lot of absentees, but each absentee is one less of what would have been in person and those aren’t counted early either- because they’re not there until after the polls close. The idea that you have to count absentees early ignores that if there were fewer absentees we would have more same-day votes to count. The absentees aren’t “in addition to same day votes”- they’re “instead of same day votes”.

    It’s more efficient to count or prepare absentees prior to poll closings, but same day vote counting isn’t more efficient than absentee vote counting.

  38. 38.

    catclub

    October 8, 2020 at 12:03 pm

    @Crashman06: Barr won’t actually try to arrest his political opponents, will he?

     

    on the one hand, Barr seems more anchored in the real world than Trump, so,  unlikely.

    on the other hand, hearing some of his (also pretty unhinged)  talks about the leftist conspiracy that is engulfing our nation, you never know. More anchored does not mean firmly moored.

     

    nautical references at no extra cost.

  39. 39.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 12:04 pm

    Bartiromo really eggs him on, though.  It’s like she gets off on pushing his buttons.

  40. 40.

    Amir Khalid

    October 8, 2020 at 12:05 pm

    @germy:

    The character’s name is Victor Frankenstein. No von in his name.

    ETA: The monster himself is not named Frankenstein. He has no name at all, people just call him a monster.

    Sorry, I couldn’t help pedanting.

  41. 41.

    MisterForkbeard

    October 8, 2020 at 12:05 pm

    Did anyone see the news that SNL found discovered that one of it’s upcoming musical guests had broken their covid rules and been at a crowded party without a mask? The sequence of events is kind of amazing, when compared to Trump’s behavior and the Debates:

    1) SNL gets video of country singer Morgan Wallen partying maskless at a crowded bar.
    2) SNL disinvites him, saying ‘We’re sorry but we have to do this’
    3) Wallen responds: “I respect the show’s decision, because I know I put them in jeopardy.”

    EVERY SINGLE PART OF THIS is a model for how the debates should have gone. Every. Single. Bit.

  42. 42.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 12:06 pm

    In the UK when Boris Johnson said he wouldn't attend a debate, they put an ice sculpture in his place to slowly melt as the debate progressed.https://t.co/PjJHvrNthp

    — Just bring on the asteroids already #fbpe (@JadeyPleb) October 8, 2020

  43. 43.

    catclub

    October 8, 2020 at 12:06 pm

    @Barbara: Another chance for

    ‘fine people’ and ‘I wish them well’

  44. 44.

    SiubhanDuinne

    October 8, 2020 at 12:06 pm

    @Barbara:

    I lived in Michigan from 1975-84, and the white supremacy “patriots,” with their guns and camo and shelters and hunker-down provisions were very much in evidence even 35-45 years ago, at least in Flint and Battle Creek.

  45. 45.

    Kay

    October 8, 2020 at 12:07 pm

    @germy:

    She’s a clown. “Do you feel contagious?” I hope there aren’t vulnerable retirees watching Fox and taking financial advice from her. Good God. They’re all going to end up homeless.

  46. 46.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 12:07 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    Sorry, I was thinking of Ludwig Van Beethoven, who didn’t have a Von in his name either.

  47. 47.

    hells littlest angel

    October 8, 2020 at 12:07 pm

    @germy:It’s like she gets off on pushing his buttons.

     

    [shudder]

  48. 48.

    SFAW

    October 8, 2020 at 12:07 pm

    “She’s a communist. She’s not a socialist, she’s well beyond a socialist,” he said

    Wow. My memory might be going, but I think this may be the first time I can recall him NOT projecting. And, no, I don’t consider his being a Russian asset makes him a commie.

    He WAS projecting with the “monster” insanity, however.

  49. 49.

    BruceFromOhio

    October 8, 2020 at 12:07 pm

    @Immanentize: Not looking good for Tedra Cobb, alas. Stefanik has been an unapologetic toxic fascist cheerleader, and looks to be keeping her job as rep for NY-21.

  50. 50.

    catclub

    October 8, 2020 at 12:08 pm

    @Amir Khalid: frankensteen!

  51. 51.

    JPL

    October 8, 2020 at 12:08 pm

    “The president is shall we say in an altered state right now,” Pelosi says on Bloomberg. “I don’t know how to answer for that behavior.”

    from manu Raju

  52. 52.

    Baud

    October 8, 2020 at 12:10 pm

    Via Reddit, all you need to know about Pence.

    https://i.redd.it/v8c2dv1dtrr51.jpg

  53. 53.

    catclub

    October 8, 2020 at 12:10 pm

    @germy: next you’ll have to admit to not knowing the difference between a clip and a magazine.

  54. 54.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    October 8, 2020 at 12:11 pm

    I don’t suppose Wide Mouth Bass Bartiromo asked him about how he is going to get the government to pay for the treatment of 7 million COVID sufferers.  You would have thought that a “business network” would be interested in that.

  55. 55.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 12:11 pm

    @BruceFromOhio:

    There are Russian bounties on U.S. soldiers. We’ve known for 104 days.

    @EliseStefanik:

    ✅ Represents Fort Drum
    ✅ Serves on the House Intel and Armed Services Cmtes
    ✅ Chairs the Trump campaign in NYS

    She has the power and responsibility to act. Her silence is complicity.

    — Tedra Cobb for Congress (@TedraCobb) October 8, 2020

  56. 56.

    Baud

    October 8, 2020 at 12:11 pm

    @germy:

    Why was there a debate? Isn’t their election a ways off?

  57. 57.

    JPL

    October 8, 2020 at 12:11 pm

    @jonas: trump will just tell his supporters that it was Antifa.

  58. 58.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 12:12 pm

    @Baud:

    I thought they were talking about an old debate.

  59. 59.

    Robert Sneddon

    October 8, 2020 at 12:13 pm

    @germy: There was a British satirical comedy panel show on TV back in the day, with pairs of comedians and political figures getting quizzed on current events. One time a Labour party figure, somewhat rotund didn’t turn up so they replaced him with a tub of lard. his teammate was not impressed by his “partner”‘s efforts.

  60. 60.

    L85NJGT

    October 8, 2020 at 12:13 pm

    @SFAW:

    Could be Melania.

  61. 61.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 12:13 pm

    @catclub:

    I’ve got more fact checkers than Pence!

  62. 62.

    narya

    October 8, 2020 at 12:14 pm

    @Kay: I actually AM worried; i think, even if the Biden-Harris ticket wins convincingly, there are enough folks who will try to leave as much wreckage as possible that the situation will get worse. There are too many people who are at risk for their own criminal behavior, so continuing the chaos and the grift (because they’re not smart) as long as possible is a benefit to them.

  63. 63.

    RandomMonster

    October 8, 2020 at 12:15 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Nah, he couldn’t fake the hotspot that he’s turned the WH into, and he would certainly rather have kept up the lie that most people won’t get this thing.

  64. 64.

    SFAW

    October 8, 2020 at 12:16 pm

    @L85NJGT:

    Could be Melania.

    OK, but it still wouldn’t be projection.

    Or were you saying that Melania is a Russkie asset, but he’s not? Nah, that frog won’t hunt.

  65. 65.

    James E Powell

    October 8, 2020 at 12:17 pm

    @narya:

    At the very least, there are going to be a lot of smashed hard drives and cell phones.

  66. 66.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 12:17 pm

    “She’s a communist. She’s not a socialist, she’s well beyond a socialist,” he said.

    During the Biden-Trump debate, Trump taunted Joe about being too centrist for the left.  “He just lost the left,” Trump yelled after one of Joe’s sensible statements.

    I guess we won the left back again, if Trump is to be believed.

    I mean, what a jackpot!  Our VP will be well beyond a socialist!

  67. 67.

    Baud

    October 8, 2020 at 12:17 pm

    @RandomMonster:

    I also don’t think Trump’s a good enough actor to fake the labored breathing.

  68. 68.

    Raoul Paste

    October 8, 2020 at 12:17 pm

    I think I read that Trump said he could’ve gotten better without any medicine

    Well that certainly helps his credibility

  69. 69.

    BC in Illinois

    October 8, 2020 at 12:17 pm

    @p.a.:

    Saruman after Orthanc still did damage.

    Yes, but Saruman was taken down when he kicked an underling [Wormtongue?] once too often.

  70. 70.

    Amir Khalid

    October 8, 2020 at 12:18 pm

    @catclub:

    You can’t buy a clip at a newsstand?

  71. 71.

    sdhays

    October 8, 2020 at 12:18 pm

    @Alison Rose: I thought one of the best parts of the night was when Kamala shut down Dense’ prattling about how Joe and Kamala are mean to the police and bad for lawn order with her reminder that she was “the only one on that stage, the only one, who has prosecuted ….”, listing lots of different criminals, from child abusers to various white collar crime. She then went on to defend her record of reform in California and the necessity for more.

    A lot of the “Kamala is a cop” people probably can’t be reached, but, damn, I don’t really see how you could have someone bring much more credibility to the argument for reform.

  72. 72.

    Baud

    October 8, 2020 at 12:18 pm

    @germy:

    Trump was inconsistent during his debate, calling Joe both a socialist and an anti-socialist.

  73. 73.

    BruceFromOhio

    October 8, 2020 at 12:18 pm

    @germy: Tedra is awesome, she would be such a great rep for the district. Unfortunately, the electorate doesn’t see it that way.

  74. 74.

    Ksmiami

    October 8, 2020 at 12:19 pm

    @Crashman06: dude prolly has a bad case of Covid so no

  75. 75.

    RandomMonster

    October 8, 2020 at 12:20 pm

    @Baud: That too!

  76. 76.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    October 8, 2020 at 12:20 pm

    Ah, Barr’s time to join the ranks of the fallen has come as predicted.

  77. 77.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 12:20 pm

    @Baud:

    Trump was inconsistent during his debate, calling Joe both a socialist and an anti-socialist.

    Yes, and one minute yelling about the horrible Chinese Plague infecting our country, and then bragging the next minute about putting people back to work.

     

    Forcing people to go back to work during a plague.

  78. 78.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 12:21 pm

    @BruceFromOhio:  It’s upstate NY.  I see confederate flags up here.

  79. 79.

    Cameron

    October 8, 2020 at 12:21 pm

    @MattF: I first read that as ‘decomposition,’ which I suppose might apply as well.

  80. 80.

    frosty

    October 8, 2020 at 12:21 pm

    @MattF: May I just say that I lived my whole life without having to know much about narcissism and decompensation (lucky, I know) and I wish things had stayed that way.

  81. 81.

    Amir Khalid

    October 8, 2020 at 12:23 pm

    @Baud:

    Trump has the mental flexibility (let’s call it that) to call a guy both one bad thing and the opposite bad thing in the same breath.

  82. 82.

    Baud

    October 8, 2020 at 12:23 pm

    Biden should announce immunity or leniency to Trump officials who agree to turn state’s evidence.

    Just for the lulz.

  83. 83.

    Citizen Alan

    October 8, 2020 at 12:23 pm

    @SFAW:

    “She’s a communist. She’s not a socialist, she’s well beyond a socialist,” he said

    I stand by my belief that no one on the right has any idea what the words communist, socialist, and Marxist mean. They just use them as placeholders for the n-word.

  84. 84.

    Citizen Alan

    October 8, 2020 at 12:26 pm

    @Robert Sneddon: That would be “Have I Got News For You.” From Wiki:

    In 1993, in the final episode of series 5, The Rt Hon. Roy Hattersley (then an MP, having recently stepped down as Deputy Leader of the Labour Party) cancelled his appearance on the show at the last minute; the third time he had done so. Unable to find a suitable replacement at such short notice, they decided that Paul’s guest would be a tub of lard instead, billed as ‘The Right Honourable Tub of Lard MP’.

  85. 85.

    PPCLI

    October 8, 2020 at 12:26 pm

    I was wondering what Pence’s responsibility-avoiding continuing emphasis on “Trusting the American people to protect themselves” reminded me of. Then it hit me: The message on the wall at the lifeguard class in the satirical novel The Twelve Chairs by Ilf and Petrov:

    “The responsibility for saving the drowning is in the hands of the drowning persons themselves”

  86. 86.

    Cameron

    October 8, 2020 at 12:27 pm

    @Baud: Yes, he blows it up my ass all the time.

  87. 87.

    scav

    October 8, 2020 at 12:27 pm

    @Robert Sneddon: Have I got News for You.  And Paul Merton still won, if I remember correctly.

  88. 88.

    Baud

    October 8, 2020 at 12:27 pm

    @Citizen Alan:

    They must be disappointed with how few people are scared of Kamala.

  89. 89.

    Frank Wilhoit

    October 8, 2020 at 12:28 pm

    @MattF: Wikipedia also has an article on learned helplessness, which is also relevant in these chaotic times, if not for all and exactly the same reasons.

  90. 90.

    Jeffro

    October 8, 2020 at 12:29 pm

    @Immanentize: 

    That headline sure needs some work. It should read: Feds say they thwarted right-wing militia plot to kidnap Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer

    Get it together, media.

  91. 91.

    Captain C

    October 8, 2020 at 12:29 pm

    @Baud: Barr has always been a cover-up artist, in the service of would-be authoritarians. I can’t recall him showing any skill in ginning up wrongful political prosecutions.

  92. 92.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 12:29 pm

    Bartiromo tries to end the interview:  “Mr. President, I know you have to go…”

    Silence from the other end.

    He was probably thinking “What?  No, I can do this all day.”

  93. 93.

    zhena gogolia

    October 8, 2020 at 12:30 pm

    @Baud:

    I mean the VSP.

  94. 94.

    Kent

    October 8, 2020 at 12:30 pm

    @Baud:

    @Crashman06:

    No, I don’t think so.  The feds need a grand jury indictment and if there were a grand jury looking into anything, we’d probably have heard about it by now.

    Plus, Barr is smart enough to know arresting anyone only helps Biden.

    ETA: Barr couldn’t even get Durham to release his report before the election.

    Actually arresting someone and bringing a case before a grand jury requires that you make a legal case and lay out legitimate evidence.  Of which they have absolutely NONE.  They would rather just cast innuendo than admit that they are a complete political farce and illegally abusing their office.  Which is what would happen if they actually tried to bring cases.

  95. 95.

    Jeffro

    October 8, 2020 at 12:31 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt:Wide Mouth Bass Bartiromo

    never going to not see that again in the future, thanks  ;)

    LOL

  96. 96.

    Jeffro

    October 8, 2020 at 12:33 pm

    @Baud: well that makes sense, since Biden’s both the head of Antifa Worldwide and also too senile to tie his own shoes.

  97. 97.

    Kay

    October 8, 2020 at 12:33 pm

    Right wing terror plot disrupted:

    The alleged plot against Gov. Gretchen Whitmer involved reaching out to members of a Michigan militia, according to a federal affidavit filed Thursday.
    Story::Feds say they thwarted militia plot to kidnap Whitmer
    The court filing alleges the conspirators twice conducted surveillance at Whitmer’s vacation home and discussed kidnapping her to a remote location in Wisconsin to stand “trial” for treason prior to the Nov. 3 election.

  98. 98.

    jl

    October 8, 2020 at 12:33 pm

    Just heard Trump is chickening out of future debates. That should cost him some more votes. Trump’s excuses are silly, and I think won’t fly with a lot of voters.

    I think Biden should have asked for a surrogate, though it will be difficult to find a healthy Trumpster over the next week. Pence seemed eerily rested, or perhaps in his usual stupor, after last nights debate. If he keeps testing negative, he could do it.

    If no surrogate, Biden should have insisted the town hall go on, and he be given his time for questions. Frequent shots of an empty Trump lectern or chair, with breathless news hack commentary, would be acceptable under those circumstances.

  99. 99.

    Suzy

    October 8, 2020 at 12:33 pm

    He’s nuts:

    “I’m back because I am a perfect physical specimen and I’m extremely young. And so I’m lucky in that way,”

  100. 100.

    West of the Rockies

    October 8, 2020 at 12:34 pm

    Was that a real quote, the “I’m extremely young” thing?  For real?!?

  101. 101.

    artem1s

    October 8, 2020 at 12:34 pm

    @Immanentize:

    In June, Croft, Fox and 13 others from multiple states held a meeting in Dublin, Ohio, near Columbus, according to the government.

    Christ on a crutch.  Dublin, Ohio is no rural outback. It’s one of the richest outer ring suburbs of Columbus and boasts famous residents such as Jack Nicholas and Lex Wexner.  These are not economically anxious white working class good old boys.  They are upper middle class country club types who drive giant trucks and SUV’s and write them off as expenses for their horse farms and giant country estates.  They are also batshit crazy conspiracy nuts who have been amassing guns and military equipment that would rival that of some small countries.  They love to play soldier on the weekends and fantasize about killing brown people. A lot of the wealth in rural, agriculture Ohio comes from illicit drug trade: pot and meth. They actively oppose any health care or legalization legislation that would interfere with their cash flow.  And they are committed to the white supremacy, supply side Jeebus, and GOP cause of ‘I got mine, fuck you’.  This boiling pot has been simmering since the early 80s at least. The MI, IN, and OH militia has financially supported past white terrorist activities, including Timothy McVeigh and his mysterious helper that was never apprehended. Their deep resentment of the Obama administration is at least somewhat due to Eric Holder resuming RICO investigations into organized crime to finance alt white, domestic terrorist groups.

    Be afraid of these fuckers, be very afraid. (wouldn’t be surprised if their Dublin meeting involved a discussion about what they might do to disrupt the debate in CLE last week too).

  102. 102.

    Baud

    October 8, 2020 at 12:34 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    How long do you think the VSP would have continued talking about taxes in any event?

    Remember, Trump’s distractions also impede the media’s ability to spend all their time on whatever would be the 2020 equivalent of EMAILS!

  103. 103.

    jl

    October 8, 2020 at 12:34 pm

    @Suzy: Well, if you interpret ‘young’ as infantile, some truth to it.

  104. 104.

    JPL

    October 8, 2020 at 12:35 pm

    @Jeffro: The affidavit is chilling.

  105. 105.

    prostratedragon

    October 8, 2020 at 12:35 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:  I saw them parading around Central Campus in Ann Arbor just at the start of the academic year a couple of times. There was a pair that showed up in hoods and masks at a Halloween party once. They left pretty quickly. And they had a Klan rally of sorts one fine spring day some years back when a couple of friends of mine, multiracial in two generations, were getting married at the Catholic student chapel in the next block. No one was much impressed at any of those times. They’re definitely there, but around that town pretty chickenshit so far.

  106. 106.

    Ken

    October 8, 2020 at 12:35 pm

    @Kay: I hope there aren’t vulnerable retirees watching Fox and taking financial advice from her. Good God. They’re all going to end up homeless.

    But Fox’s sponsors (reverse mortgage companies, gold companies, etc.) will benefit, so it’s a net win.

  107. 107.

    Benw

    October 8, 2020 at 12:37 pm

    @jl: Joe Biden vs empty chair. The Republicans will counter-program with Clint Eastwood!

  108. 108.

    Baud

    October 8, 2020 at 12:37 pm

    @Suzy:

    May the good Lord be with you
    Down every road you roam
    And may sunshine and happiness
    Surround you when you’re far from home
    And may you grow to be proud, dignified and true
    And do unto others as you’d have done to you
    Be courageous and be brave
    And in my heart, you’ll always stay
    Forever young
    Forever young

  109. 109.

    jl

    October 8, 2020 at 12:37 pm

    @prostratedragon: ‘Central Campus in Ann Arbor’

    Afraid of the collegiate soyboys and ‘angry’, feminazi women?

  110. 110.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    October 8, 2020 at 12:38 pm

    @prostratedragon: Hey I was married in that chapel!

  111. 111.

    Kent

    October 8, 2020 at 12:39 pm

    @sdhays: A lot of the “Kamala is a cop” people probably can’t be reached, but, damn, I don’t really see how you could have someone bring much more credibility to the argument for reform.

    Luckily these types are mostly concentrated in places like Seattle, Portland, Oakland etc. and not in swing states like PA, WI, AZ etc.

    There is kind of an overton window effect with this sort of thing.  Once a city like Portland or Seattle reaches a critical mass of liberal thought you get these kinds of folks popping up.  I don’t think there is really anything to be done, or any convincing them.  In a place like Portland, the “establishment enemy” are mainstream Democrats as the nearest Republicans are off in the far flung suburbs and rural areas.

  112. 112.

    jl

    October 8, 2020 at 12:39 pm

    @Benw: Biden at a town hall taking citizen questions, versus, say, Giuliani railing at an empty chair on local Sinclair channel? I’ll take it.

  113. 113.

    Kattails

    October 8, 2020 at 12:39 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt: why should the government be entirely responsible for this miserable failure? He can sell of every last one of his assets, pay the government what he owes in taxes, and put the rest of the money in a trust fund to help care for every citizen he’s screwed by carrying on with his various and assorted reality-dodging fairytales and outright lies about the virus.

  114. 114.

    JPL

    October 8, 2020 at 12:39 pm

    trump campaign is attempting to push back the debates now.    sad

  115. 115.

    zhena gogolia

    October 8, 2020 at 12:39 pm

    @West of the Rockies:

    Vomit, yes.

    “I'm back because I'm a perfect physician specimen, and I’m extremely young,” Donald TrumpH/t @atrupar pic.twitter.com/ImUyEiQ9Ez— Shannon Watts (@shannonrwatts) October 8, 2020

    She laughs, so we can pass it off as a “joke.”

  116. 116.

    oatler.

    October 8, 2020 at 12:40 pm

    @catclub:

    Frau Blucher!

  117. 117.

    Jeffro

    October 8, 2020 at 12:40 pm

    @PPCLI: yeeesssss?  =)

  118. 118.

    L85NJGT

    October 8, 2020 at 12:41 pm

    @SFAW:

    Maybe Melania’s representation reached out about that prenup. I sure as fuck wouldn’t wait till after election day on collecting any outstanding debt.

  119. 119.

    Baud

    October 8, 2020 at 12:41 pm

    @JPL:

    After the election works.

  120. 120.

    Jeffro

    October 8, 2020 at 12:42 pm

    @JPL: hoo boy

    “I GOTTA HAVE IN-PERSON DEBATES SO I CAN TALK OVER JOE ALL NIGHT AGAIN, THAT WAS AWESOME!  PLEASE??

    He sure does project ‘strength’, doesn’t he America?

  121. 121.

    hueyplong

    October 8, 2020 at 12:42 pm

    Back at Antifa headquarters where I come from, we don’t consider a “perfect physical specimen” a guy who can’t leave his bedroom without lifts, a girdle, Depends, snorts of Adderall, a metric ton of makeup on his face and cotton candy on his head.

  122. 122.

    Benw

    October 8, 2020 at 12:42 pm

    Anti-american communist cop antifa prosecutor Harris makes about as mush sense as socialist fascist Muslim dictator Obama

  123. 123.

    catclub

    October 8, 2020 at 12:43 pm

    @Benw: As i  noted THE MODERATORS will counter program by picking questions.

  124. 124.

    RaflW

    October 8, 2020 at 12:44 pm

    I know the Affordable Care Act is a bogeyman on the right, but this from UT’s Sen. Mike Lee is off the rails (he is of course also receiving whatever care he needs for Trump-induced Covid at taxpayer expense). I think his illness is causing delerium.

    @SenMikeLee
    The Affordable Care Act is a collusive, corrupt, and deeply flawed method of control for the sick and those with preexisring conditions.
    8:11 PM · Oct 7, 2020

    BTW SLTrib says his neighbor has also tested positive (may well just be coincidence, dunno). But both he and that guy now have a Covid diagnosis in their medical chart. It’ll follow them for life. If the other guy is young, and ACA is struck down, he’s probably screwed for any coverage, much less a premium that isn’t sky high. Keep your job, America (oh, wait, the economy sucks. Sorry!

  125. 125.

    hueyplong

    October 8, 2020 at 12:46 pm

    I’m a Lee tweet away from speculating that he’s getting Dexy, too.

  126. 126.

    prostratedragon

    October 8, 2020 at 12:46 pm

    @jl:  Yeah, it’s a rough ‘n tough crowd that goes to Seva for those tofu entrees.

  127. 127.

    MisterForkbeard

    October 8, 2020 at 12:47 pm

    @jl: Nah. No surrogates, because the surrogate will be much less well known and more likeable than Trump.

    Biden should do what he’s doing: Say that he’ll attend because the American people  deserve answers and he’s sorry that Trump doesn’t feel the same way.

  128. 128.

    prostratedragon

    October 8, 2020 at 12:47 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:  Really?! The day we were there was (regardless) quite lovely.

  129. 129.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    October 8, 2020 at 12:48 pm

    @Baud:
    Some are like water, some are like the heat
    Some are a melody and some are the beat
    Sooner or later they all will be gone
    Why don’t they stay young?
    It’s so hard to get old without a cause
    I don’t want to perish like a fading horse
    Youth’s like diamonds in the sun
    And diamonds are forever
    So many adventures given up today
    So many songs we forgot to play
    So many dreams swinging out of the blue
    Oh let it come true
    Forever young
    I want to be forever young
    Do you really want to live forever
    Forever, and ever?

  130. 130.

    PPCLI

    October 8, 2020 at 12:49 pm

    @Jeffro: I made a remark that I decided wasn’t really worth making, but instead of cancelling, I clicked the button to post it. Sorry about that.

  131. 131.

    prostratedragon

    October 8, 2020 at 12:49 pm

    Next week’s Time magazine cover

  132. 132.

    jl

    October 8, 2020 at 12:50 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: Real problem for Trump debating next week is that, in-person or remote, he needs to get through 90 minutes live, in real time, without gasping or obviously getting disoriented and phasing out. By then he’ll probably be out of the woods in terms of going into crisis or keeling over, but he’ll destroy himself with much less than that. No retakes, no jump cuts either in-person or remote.

    We’ll find out soon whether he’ll pull up his socks and do another debate, or chicken out, find some chickenpoop excuse, and dig himself into an even deeper electoral hole. My bet is the latter.

  133. 133.

    MisterForkbeard

    October 8, 2020 at 12:51 pm

    @RaflW: I guess we’ll just have to go to singlepayer, then. Ah well.

    @hueyplong: He’s on something. This morning he was screaming about how “rank democracy” was the problem.

  134. 134.

    Eunicecycle

    October 8, 2020 at 12:51 pm

    @MattF: Those two articles really explain a lot about Trump. Especially that narcissists must be perceived as being perfect all the time. Just today he said he was perfect physically.

  135. 135.

    Ohio Mom

    October 8, 2020 at 12:52 pm

    Skipping to the end of the thread to say I voted (whew) and got my flu shot.

    The Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Board of Elections was crowded but set up for it: lots of cops directing traffic; inside, lots of windows to check/sign-in at, more than enough booths and scanners. The only waiting I did was to get into the parking lot, there was a small bottleneck.

    The flu shot was similarly quick. I feel like I accomplished a lot and I still have half the day left.

  136. 136.

    Benw

    October 8, 2020 at 12:52 pm

    @jl: hells to the yes!

    @catclub: “Democrat Biden, next question is from Kevin, a life long Repu– Independent! who probably even votes Democrat and is a liberal, who knows, and wants to know why you will be so bad for America…”

  137. 137.

    artem1s

    October 8, 2020 at 12:53 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    ETA: The monster himself is not named Frankenstein. He has no name at all, people just call him a monster.

    the 1973 TV movie version – Frankenstein, the True Version, has the Doctor bestowing the name “Legion” (for I am many) on the monster.  I always thought that was a fitting name.

  138. 138.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 12:54 pm

    BREAKING: Fox News’ Harlan Hill just called Kamala Harris an “insufferable lying bitch.”

    Raise your hand if you demand that Fox News fires this misogynistic loser immediately.

    — Mrs. Krassenstein (@HKrassenstein) October 8, 2020

    Harlan is the chubby guy with the bow tie; a republican operative Fox News called a Democratic strategist.

  139. 139.

    different-church-lady

    October 8, 2020 at 12:54 pm

    I suppose the upside to all this is that nobody is ever going to be able to say “We should run the country like a business” without getting dope slapped.

  140. 140.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    October 8, 2020 at 12:55 pm

    @prostratedragon: Yeah, we knew a Jesuit who taught in the econ dept and he performed the ceremony for us.

  141. 141.

    different-church-lady

    October 8, 2020 at 12:55 pm

    @germy: Harlan, you’re supposed to put the mask ON, not rip the mask off.

  142. 142.

    hueyplong

    October 8, 2020 at 12:56 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: I’m actually not kidding.  We know he tested positive.  And now he’s posting as though he’s psychotic.  I think there is a better than 50-50 chance he’s on dexamethasone.

  143. 143.

    Jeffro

    October 8, 2020 at 12:58 pm

    @RaflW: I guess Senator Lee would prefer that those with pre-existing conditions experience the pure and unvarnished freedom of paying astronomical insurance rates or have lifetime caps on coverage?  Or maybe the exhilarating liberation of not being able to get coverage at all?

  144. 144.

    prostratedragon

    October 8, 2020 at 12:59 pm

    Wow, a Jesuit in econ. That was my department, but I think he’d moved on by the time I got there. The few I’ve known of that order have tended to be in science.

  145. 145.

    Ken

    October 8, 2020 at 12:59 pm

    @prostratedragon: I wonder if they’ll have an actual contact graph for the Rose Garden Massacre in the articles?  Probably not enough data since the White House has forbidden any contact tracing and isn’t even notifying people who may have been exposed.

  146. 146.

    Immanentize

    October 8, 2020 at 1:02 pm

    @germy: Camper Van Beethoven

  147. 147.

    Benw

    October 8, 2020 at 1:02 pm

    @different-church-lady: LOL!

    “But I type that into my discord chat all the time, so what’s the problem?” – Harlan. Sigh

  148. 148.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 1:02 pm

    @artem1s:

    A few months ago I read the first edition of the novel, and at one point Frankenstein’s creation weeps for the plight of Native Americans.

  149. 149.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    October 8, 2020 at 1:03 pm

    @prostratedragon: We were there when the econ building burned down in the middle of the night. It was before computers and even before easy availability of copy machines. Faculty were there to see if they could salvage anything. Books, research notes, class notes, everything–gone.

  150. 150.

    mrmoshpotato

    October 8, 2020 at 1:04 pm

    “I’m back because I am a perfect physical specimen and I’m extremely young. And so I’m lucky in that way,”

    This is sad, frightening and hilarious all at the same time.

  151. 151.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 1:04 pm

    Trump Won’t Debate Unless There’s a Risk of Infecting Biden

  152. 152.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 1:04 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:

    And then he sings “I feel pretty, oh so pretty…”

  153. 153.

    MattF

    October 8, 2020 at 1:06 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: Still taking dex.

    ETA: One assumes that WH staff have removed all bathroom mirrors.

  154. 154.

    MisterForkbeard

    October 8, 2020 at 1:08 pm

    @hueyplong: No, I totally agree with you. He’s very off today. Dexamethasone is a possibility, but also any number of other drugs. Pretty scary.

  155. 155.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 1:09 pm

    The prosecutor in the Jack Wohl case says Wohl and Burkman showed up to their arraignment with a film crew and a stack of $100 bills, to flourish when they paid their bail. Now the prosecutor wants a $1 million bail.— Will Sommer (@willsommer) October 8, 2020

    Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman's bail is set at $100K each, with the condition that they don't do any more robocalls.— Will Sommer (@willsommer) October 8, 2020

  156. 156.

    oatler.

    October 8, 2020 at 1:10 pm

    @Immanentize:

    Vampire Can Mating Oven

  157. 157.

    localcomment

    October 8, 2020 at 1:11 pm

  158. 158.

    different-church-lady

    October 8, 2020 at 1:13 pm

    @germy: Judges love it when you piss them off with stunts!

  159. 159.

    lowtechcyclist

    October 8, 2020 at 1:13 pm

    He also went after Attorney General William Barr, who he said would go down in history as “a sad situation” if he doesn’t prosecute Trump’s political rivals.

    “Bill has got to move,” he said, suggesting time was running short for his administration officials to use their offices to go after his opponents.

    One would think people would be treating this as a big fucking deal, front-page news.  This is third-world strongman stuff, not anything remotely compatible with democracy.

  160. 160.

    James E Powell

    October 8, 2020 at 1:13 pm

    @germy:

    Somehow and some way we need to bring radical change to the press/media and more specifically to the cable shows that present horrible people as entertainment. We got Trump because CNN decided his racist & misogynist rallies were entertainment. We get this because a holes like Cillizza decided it was entertaining to call women names and CNN and the WaPo decided to promote it.

    Ours is a very fucked up culture and I despair of a solution.

  161. 161.

    patroclus

    October 8, 2020 at 1:14 pm

    @Baud: One of Dylan’s best songs!  I always thought it was about our generation, but it was instead about his son Jesse.

  162. 162.

    Kent

    October 8, 2020 at 1:14 pm

    @hueyplong:@MisterForkbeard: I’m actually not kidding.  We know he tested positive.  And now he’s posting as though he’s psychotic.  I think there is a better than 50-50 chance he’s on dexamethasone.

    But how would you ever know?   When has he not been posting like a psychotic?  What does the normal non-psychotic Trump look like?  What is our baseline?

  163. 163.

    MisterForkbeard

    October 8, 2020 at 1:16 pm

    @Kent: This is in regards to Mike Lee.

    We know Trump is on mind-altering drugs. Literally, his doctor says so. But very easy to mistake what we’re talking about. :)

  164. 164.

    hueyplong

    October 8, 2020 at 1:17 pm

    @Kent: We’re talking about Sen Lee, a Mormon bearing a slight presumption of unfamiliarity with hardcore narcotics.

  165. 165.

    MattF

    October 8, 2020 at 1:18 pm

    @Kent: It’s the over-the-top asides about his own perfection that give it away. Feeling best in 20 years, perfect physical condition, and so on. And open paranoia about 2016.

  166. 166.

    prostratedragon

    October 8, 2020 at 1:20 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:  Oh yes, that made national news at the time; I guess I arrived around 10 years later. A number of the faculty still got shivers from it.

  167. 167.

    Kathleen

    October 8, 2020 at 1:21 pm

    @Immanentize: Did you see my speculation post about FBI raid in Cincinnati? Haven’t heard why but learned Army and SWAT teams were also involved. I’m wondering if this was related. We’ve had groups from here who were implicated in similar plots in the past.

  168. 168.

    Ruckus

    October 8, 2020 at 1:22 pm

    @Baud:

    shitforbrains isn’t good enough at anything to be able to fake it at any time, for any reason.

  169. 169.

    zhena gogolia

    October 8, 2020 at 1:22 pm

    I’m sad about all this slandering of Captain Queeg.

  170. 170.

    Juju

    October 8, 2020 at 1:23 pm

    @germy: My guess is you were probably thinking of Von Helsing

  171. 171.

    hueyplong

    October 8, 2020 at 1:23 pm

    @MattF: Well, he knows somebody’s going to jail about 2016 and other things, and he’s only controlling America’s AG for a little while longer.

  172. 172.

    Ian

    October 8, 2020 at 1:25 pm

    I’m extremely young

    Good fucking gods, how stupid does he really think we all are?  How high do you have to be for this to even cross your mind at seventy four.

  173. 173.

    MattF

    October 8, 2020 at 1:26 pm

    @zhena gogolia: There’s a certain, I-don’t-know-what…

  174. 174.

    James E Powell

    October 8, 2020 at 1:26 pm

    @lowtechcyclist:

    One would think people would be treating this as a big fucking deal, front-page news.  This is third-world strongman stuff, not anything remotely compatible with democracy.

    Sure, but it’s not like he failed to follow best practices in email server management.

  175. 175.

    mad citizen

    October 8, 2020 at 1:29 pm

    @different-church-lady: OK Biden people who read this blog–we have an idea for you: In the inauguration address, please include the line “We’re from the government, and we’re here to help”  Please F-ing BURY Reagan’s line.  So tired of that trope.  Explain why having a functioning government at all levels, WITH robust citizen participation in our democracy, is a good thing, etc.

    I  loved that Kamala used the word “incompetence” at least twice that I caught last night.

  176. 176.

    trollhattan

    October 8, 2020 at 1:29 pm

    @Suzy: 
    Yeah, he’s at Reagan Term 1.75-level lost it. Presuming “It’s the drugs talking” leaves out the possibility he’s not returning to some prior less-nuts condition. I don’t think we can rely on that.

  177. 177.

    Brachiator

    October 8, 2020 at 1:30 pm

    @James E Powell:

    Ours is a very fucked up culture and I despair of a solution.

    The problems of media that you note are not specific to our culture or to our time.

  178. 178.

    Barbara

    October 8, 2020 at 1:30 pm

    @catclub: Trump has entered bizarro world.  All the things that he think will help him are only likely to hurt him even more because they bring home just how erratic and unhinged he is.  His experience with Covid has made him less sympathetic because he can’t do anything except extrapolate from his own reality, totally insensible to the suffering of other people.  His anonymous leaking campaign staff are still tethered enough to reality that they had “hoped” he would show humility, empathy because they knew that’s the only way it could help him.

    Well, it’s the same with arresting your political opponents.  That would be like an earthquake level reminder of what a clear and present danger he is to democratic norms.

  179. 179.

    zhena gogolia

    October 8, 2020 at 1:30 pm

    @MattF:

    Bogart, so brilliant.

  180. 180.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 8, 2020 at 1:30 pm

    @Immanentize: remarkable that the FBI bothered.

  181. 181.

    trollhattan

    October 8, 2020 at 1:31 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    The mess boys know what they did.

  182. 182.

    Ohio Mom

    October 8, 2020 at 1:32 pm

    Patroclus @161: nope, Baud quoted a Rod Stewart song. That Dylan successfully sued him for being pretty much a copy of “May you stay forever young.” Which Dylan did write about one of his kids.

    I am always tickled by the idea that all these rock stars are dads — for example, picturing Mick Jagger playing Candyland, or Chutes and Ladders (or whatever the British equivalents are) is something I can barely do.

  183. 183.

    mrmoshpotato

    October 8, 2020 at 1:32 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Next you’re gonna tell us James Whale wasn’t really a whale.

  184. 184.

    trollhattan

    October 8, 2020 at 1:33 pm

    @Immanentize:

    Who technically never once camped.

  185. 185.

    germy

    October 8, 2020 at 1:33 pm

    @Kathleen:

    Remember whenTrump tweeted:  “Liberate Michigan!” ?

    They were just following orders.

  186. 186.

    Peale

    October 8, 2020 at 1:34 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: As for me, I hope his last days in office involve firing formerly loyal lackeys until he finds one to arrest Obama. They’ve probably embedded a lot of loyalists within the agencies and it would be nice to remove them all so that Biden doesn’t have to.

  187. 187.

    Geeno

    October 8, 2020 at 1:34 pm

    @germy: In the movies he’s frequently referred to as the “Baron von Frankenstein” so you could’ve picked it up there as well.

  188. 188.

    trollhattan

    October 8, 2020 at 1:34 pm

    Anybody else notice Pence serially misusing “literally” last night? His radio program must have been a literal shitshow.

  189. 189.

    Elizabelle

    October 8, 2020 at 1:34 pm

    I tire of the authorities never making explicit that it is rightwing violence.

    They talk of the ugly political climate.  Who fomented that?

    Although CNN analyst (Andrew McCabe) is reporting right now that it is Trump who has fomented this.  His extremist rhetoric emboldens these radicalized wingnuts.

    I hope this event is another nail in Trump’s coffin.  Figurative or literal.

  190. 190.

    SiubhanDuinne

    October 8, 2020 at 1:35 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    He also says, in that clip, “I don’t have heart problems, I don’t have diabetes,” so I think we can all rest assured he has heart problems and diabetes.

  191. 191.

    mad citizen

    October 8, 2020 at 1:35 pm

    @patroclus: I always wondered about the two Forever Youngs–Dylan and Rod Stewart.  (Something seemed off about the quote above, so I assumed it is from the Rod Stewart version.  It is.)

    One website with the Stewart version lists the writers as: Writer/s: Bob Dylan, Jim Cregan, Kevin Savigar, Rod Stewart.  So I take it Rod added on to Dylan’s original version.

    I prefer Dylan’s.

  192. 192.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 8, 2020 at 1:36 pm

    @SFAW: I’ve heard that the wild “communist” accusations are actually effective in some populations of refugees–there are Hmong and Vietnamese immigrants in Minnesota who are genuinely terrified that Biden is going to institute a Communist Party dictatorship in the United States.

  193. 193.

    Brachiator

    October 8, 2020 at 1:36 pm

    @jl:

    Just heard Trump is chickening out of future debates. That should cost him some more votes. Trump’s excuses are silly, and I think won’t fly with a lot of voters.

    Is this certain or more wild rants from Trump?

  194. 194.

    dmsilev

    October 8, 2020 at 1:37 pm

    @Ian: Remember, according to Trump’s previous physician, he has god-like genes and could easily live to be 200 years old if only his diet would improve a bit. So, in that sense, 74 is young.

  195. 195.

    trollhattan

    October 8, 2020 at 1:37 pm

    @Geeno:

    I noticed the hometown of our German exchange student is near the actual Frankenstein so made sure she had a viewing of “Young Frankenstein.” That was fun, although some of Mel’s memes didn’t come across for her.

  196. 196.

    craigie

    October 8, 2020 at 1:37 pm

    @Citizen Alan:

    Totally agree. This has always bugged me.

  197. 197.

    trollhattan

    October 8, 2020 at 1:38 pm

    @dmsilev:

    If we discover his folks are both still alive in a bell jar somewhere I’ll entertain the idea of Trump making it to the century mark.

  198. 198.

    Elizabelle

    October 8, 2020 at 1:39 pm

    Trump bragging that he beat Biden easily in the first debate, “according to the polls I’ve seen.”  He thinks Biden knows Trump beat him, too.

    Trump says he doesn’t want to participate in a virtual debate where they can cut him off.  Said something very close to that.  — It’s the ability to be muted by the moderator.

    Biden, thank dog, has declined to postpone the debate.

  199. 199.

    Searcher

    October 8, 2020 at 1:39 pm

    “I’m back because I am a perfect physical specimen and I’m extremely young. And so I’m lucky in that way,” Trump said. Trump, at 74, is clinically obese and has known heart issues.

    Also, can I just give props to the article for instantly fact checking / throwing shade?

  200. 200.

    Kent

    October 8, 2020 at 1:41 pm

    @Citizen Alan:I stand by my belief that no one on the right has any idea what the words communist, socialist, and Marxist mean. They just use them as placeholders for the n-word.

    Yes, it’s race.  But it’s also the slur used against any policy proposal at all that even slightly threatens the unfettered accumulation of vast wealth in this country.  For example Hélder Câmara, the Archbishop of Recife Brazil family said during that country’s military dictatorship:

    “When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist.

  201. 201.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    October 8, 2020 at 1:41 pm

    @Peale:

    I’m eagerly awaiting “I’ve fired Bob Barr and have appointed Larry Klayman as Acting Attorney General with orders to arrest both Obamas, the entire Biden family, the Clinton family and Nancy Pelosi. I’m also having him arrest Kamala Harris for being a communist monster.”

  202. 202.

    Scout211

    October 8, 2020 at 1:41 pm

    I didn’t read all the comments yet, so if this has already been posted, oops, sorry.

    Mayor Pete did it again this morning: Trump is scared to debate.

    https://twitter.com/PeteButtigieg/status/1314212949255319556

  203. 203.

    A Ghost to Most

    October 8, 2020 at 1:42 pm

    @germy: Of course. His first attempt appears to have failed.

  204. 204.

    Ken

    October 8, 2020 at 1:43 pm

    @Ohio Mom: Mick Jagger playing Candyland

    “No, honey, only daddy gets to snort the special pixie sticks….”

  205. 205.

    Brachiator

    October 8, 2020 at 1:43 pm

    @Barbara:

    Well, it’s the same with arresting your political opponents.  That would be like an earthquake level reminder of what a clear and present danger he is to democratic norms.

    Arresting political opponents would be the end of any pretense of democracy in the United States.

  206. 206.

    Kathleen

    October 8, 2020 at 1:44 pm

    @Ohio Mom: I filled my absentee ballot out yesterday and dropped it off at BOE.

  207. 207.

    dmsilev

    October 8, 2020 at 1:45 pm

    WaPo election live update:

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Thursday that she would discuss the 25th Amendment to the Constitution on Friday, without elaborating.

    The 25th Amendment formalizes that the vice president takes over the duties of the presidency in the event of a president’s death, removal or resignation from office. It also lays out a process by which a sitting president may be removed from office.

    “Tomorrow, by the way, tomorrow, come here tomorrow,” Pelosi abruptly told reporters Thursday at her weekly news conference, during which she mainly spoke about the need for a new round of coronavirus relief. “We’re going to be talking about the 25th Amendment.”

    Asked toward the end of her news conference whether she could give more details, Pelosi only reiterated her call for reporters to return Friday.

  208. 208.

    Elizabelle

    October 8, 2020 at 1:45 pm

    Watching CNN’s livestream.

    This anchor, Brianna whatever, is a piece of work.  Saying that a virtual debate poses a lot of problems.  Making Trump’s cancelling sound reasonable.  Now playing Trump’s phoned in comments about Kamala Harris.  Although Brianna does find them to be awful.

    Carole Simpson, veteran journalist who moderated the 1992 debates, does not think there will be any more debates.  Because Trump is sick, and he is “drugs and steroids” talking.

  209. 209.

    MattF

    October 8, 2020 at 1:46 pm

    @Elizabelle: Trump will always claim that he won. Always. His ‘strategy’ as always, was to dominate– which, in a sense, he did. And it’s true that the news out of the debate was about him, rather than Biden. So much winning.

  210. 210.

    Kent

    October 8, 2020 at 1:46 pm

    @jl:

    Just heard Trump is chickening out of future debates. That should cost him some more votes. Trump’s excuses are silly, and I think won’t fly with a lot of voters.

    I think Biden should have asked for a surrogate, though it will be difficult to find a healthy Trumpster over the next week. Pence seemed eerily rested, or perhaps in his usual stupor, after last nights debate. If he keeps testing negative, he could do it.

    If no surrogate, Biden should have insisted the town hall go on, and he be given his time for questions. Frequent shots of an empty Trump lectern or chair, with breathless news hack commentary, would be acceptable under those circumstances.

    No, no surrogates.   That is a bullshit idea and beneath Biden.  Like Nancy Pelosi said when she blew off Kelly Anne Conway during past budget negotiations:  “I don’t speak to staff”.

    Send the chicken suit guys around to every Trump rally.  And hold your own town halls with an empty chair representing Trump.  And laugh at Trump for his cowardice.

  211. 211.

    Felanius Kootea

    October 8, 2020 at 1:47 pm

    @Scout211: Damn!  And he says “maybe Trump doesn’t care about other people“ towards the end.

  212. 212.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 8, 2020 at 1:47 pm

    @Citizen Alan: It’s also a holdover from rhetoric that was effective during the Cold War, when the great enemy was Communist. Note that Trump intermittently tries to do this with China but he can’t retain sufficient focus.

    One of the things that flabbergasts me the most about modern conservatism is that their white-America hostility to immigrants means they can’t even do the thing Reagan did, which was to be officially extremely welcoming to refugees from Communist countries (granted, there were far more of them then). It meant that Reagan-style conservatism, for all its faults, was actually better adapted to the post-1965 immigration landscape than what they’re doing now, which is a full-throated reaction to it. But old-style Red-baiting still gets them a little bit of support on those grounds.

  213. 213.

    Elizabelle

    October 8, 2020 at 1:48 pm

    @Kent:   Agree re no surrogates.

    Trump needs the debates. Biden does not.  Enough.

  214. 214.

    WaterGirl

    October 8, 2020 at 1:48 pm

    @trollhattan: They may have had to stop some of Trump’s regular drugs because of drug interactions, or they may have been “warned” that if the President takes anything the Walter Reed docs are not aware of… there may be some serious negative drug interactions.

    So who know if whatever they typically used to stabilize Trump before this week is still in use?

  215. 215.

    Kathleen

    October 8, 2020 at 1:48 pm

    @germy: Shakes head sadly.

  216. 216.

    Elizabelle

    October 8, 2020 at 1:49 pm

    @Felanius Kootea:   Yeah, that was excellent.

    Did you notice Steve Doocy murmuring agreement, amicably, in the background throughout Pete B’s interview?  That was striking.

  217. 217.

    Mike in NC

    October 8, 2020 at 1:49 pm

    Desperate Trump is back pushing for emergency $1200 checks to be sent to every living American. By tomorrow morning that’ll be $12,000 per bought vote. I’m holding out for a bigger payday.

  218. 218.

    Peale

    October 8, 2020 at 1:49 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Ah. So Obama is going to be arrested for being gay married to a Turkish man in 1988 and working as a rent boy in 1984. Is there a statute of limitation on prostitution?

  219. 219.

    Felanius Kootea

    October 8, 2020 at 1:49 pm

    Dropped off my ballot yesterday in a secure election Drop Box and I’m proud to be one of the 6.2 million people who have voted early in this election. Go Joe and Kamala! Whoo!!!

  220. 220.

    Ken

    October 8, 2020 at 1:50 pm

    @Elizabelle: This anchor, Brianna whatever, is a piece of work. Saying that a virtual debate poses a lot of problems.

    No doubt speaking from her basement in front of a green screen, while watching the other panel participants in their basements on her computer monitor, and some guy in his basement does live editing to merge their video streams and add the fake backgrounds…

  221. 221.

    A Ghost to Most

    October 8, 2020 at 1:50 pm

    @hueyplong: Seems likely, given the nazi tone of his tweets today.

    “It don’t make you do a thing,

    It just lets you”

    – Mike Cooley

  222. 222.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 8, 2020 at 1:50 pm

    @Elizabelle: Having personally met Steve Doocy I refuse to believe that any shred of decency exists within him.

  223. 223.

    WaterGirl

    October 8, 2020 at 1:50 pm

    @craigie: @Citizen Alan:

    Come on, guys!  You don’t have to know what it means; all you have to know is that you hate it!

  224. 224.

    Elizabelle

    October 8, 2020 at 1:50 pm

    CNN Brianna just seriously redeemed herself with me.

    She described Trump as “shedding the virus around the White House like Pig Pen.”

    She’s doing an anchor comment on how Trump’s physicians and staff won’t level with us.

  225. 225.

    Kent

    October 8, 2020 at 1:50 pm

    @Elizabelle: This anchor, Brianna whatever, is a piece of work.  Saying that a virtual debate poses a lot of problems.  Making Trump’s cancelling sound reasonable.  Now playing Trump’s phoned in comments about Kamala Harris.  Although Brianna does find them to be awful.

    EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY CNN HOLDS VIRTUAL DEBATES BETWEEN A POSSE OF TALKING HEADS COMING FROM DIFFERENT LOCATIONS.

    This is what Cable news has been doing every single day for over 20 years.   Conducting virtual debates on live TV.  I often see up to 8 different talking heads shouting on screen at once from multiple locations.  And suddenly doing it with just two people from two different locations is “problematic”?

    Give me a fucking break.

  226. 226.

    Felanius Kootea

    October 8, 2020 at 1:51 pm

    @Elizabelle: Because Pete has that reasonable, pleasant demeanor down even when he’s shivving you.  Quite a skill.  That young man will go far.

  227. 227.

    Amir Khalid

    October 8, 2020 at 1:51 pm

    @artem1s:

    Mary Shelley never gave him a name. I suppose people who adapt the story for TV or movies will do things like that (and worse) but for me the monster is nameless.

  228. 228.

    Elizabelle

    October 8, 2020 at 1:52 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:   You know, a good friend of mine worked with him at a TV station while Doocy still had a “nice guy” image on local DC news.  I could not believe the stories she was telling.  Thought she was exaggerating.

    Owe my bud a huge apology there.

  229. 229.

    Elizabelle

    October 8, 2020 at 1:53 pm

    @Felanius Kootea:   Yes.  Mayor Pete was excellent.  And I wish him well.  He knows his way around an interview.

  230. 230.

    Ken

    October 8, 2020 at 1:54 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: Note that Trump intermittently tries to do this with China but he can’t retain sufficient focus.

    Also it would mess with his family’s contracts to make all sorts of overpriced crap in Chinese factories.

  231. 231.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    October 8, 2020 at 1:54 pm

    @Peale:

    I see that you too are familiar with the oeuvre of one Lawrence Klayman, a man so odious that he sued his own mother – and lost.

  232. 232.

    Elizabelle

    October 8, 2020 at 1:54 pm

    @Kent:   I know.  Brianna’s comment was ridiculous.  “Both Sides” Brianna.

  233. 233.

    Bruce K

    October 8, 2020 at 1:55 pm

    @Amir Khalid:  The more I think about it, the more I think it’s proper to call Dr. Frankenstein’s creation “the creature”, not “the monster”.

    Dr. Frankenstein was more of a monster than his creation.

  234. 234.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 8, 2020 at 1:56 pm

    @Kent: Unless you do it at the 11th hour and count on the fog of war to get you through, like with the Comey letter. They had nothing there, absolutely nothing, but it was an effective hit because that didn’t come out until after Election Day.

    That said, everyone had been primed by months of bullshit to believe that some big email revelation about Hillary Clinton might be forthcoming, and they don’t really have that here.

    I thought Tara Reade was going to be it but there hasn’t been anything like the level of attention, and I suspect some new claim there wouldn’t get the same kind of traction. Trump, always the narcissist, isn’t even on that–he’s instead focusing on the Obama administration supposedly persecuting him, and the media just aren’t biting.

  235. 235.

    MattF

    October 8, 2020 at 1:57 pm

    Pelosi says something about the 25th Amendment is coming tomorrow.

  236. 236.

    Elizabelle

    October 8, 2020 at 1:57 pm

    @MattF:

    Trump will always claim that he won. Always. His ‘strategy’ as always, was to dominate– which, in a sense, he did.

    Like the dog you cannot stop from humping your leg.  The furniture.  The curtains.

    Goddamn.  There he is again.

  237. 237.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 8, 2020 at 1:58 pm

    @Elizabelle: Yeah, it was then.

  238. 238.

    Tony Jay

    October 8, 2020 at 1:59 pm

    @Ohio Mom:

    British comedian Dave Gorman once did a bit on the Jagger family tree for his TV show (I believe it was to illustrate some absurdities about generations) and pointed out that Mick has been spraying his seed extremely liberally for so very, very long that his older children have kids who are themselves older than their uncles/aunts and and most of his offspring are older than some of his later partners.

    Rod Stewart, OTOH, is another one of those elderly British exports who felt compelled to tell everyone how great Brexit was going to be from the comfort of his stately home and/or LA mansion. He can stick the heel of one of his old platform shoes right up his prolapsed fundament and snap it off.

    Sorry, what were we talking about?

  239. 239.

    Jeffro

    October 8, 2020 at 2:00 pm

    @Elizabelle: I tire of the authorities never making explicit that it is rightwing violence.  They talk of the ugly political climate.  Who fomented that?

    I’m sick of it too.  This is one of those issues where it’s vitally important to ahem ‘give feedback’ to the media about their framing, headlines, etc.

  240. 240.

    Brachiator

    October 8, 2020 at 2:00 pm

    If, FSM willing, Biden wins convincingly, we’ll still be stuck with a humiliated nutcase in the White House until noon on January 20. I don’t mind admitting that worries me, but this is the best case scenario, so I guess we’ll have to buckle up.

    A sullen, defeated Trump might get up to all kinds of mischief between November 3 and January 20. Probably a lot of last minute grift and lots of pardons.

    But then again, he will be defeated, and that’s a good thing.

  241. 241.

    Martin

    October 8, 2020 at 2:01 pm

    To be fair, Queeg was considerably more rational in his obsession than Trump is. It was a particular single-mindedness that didn’t really make him non-functional in other areas. Trump is just a complete shitshow on everything.

  242. 242.

    Ken

    October 8, 2020 at 2:02 pm

    @MattF:  It can’t be sections 1 or 2.  Section 3 requires Trump to write a letter saying he’s incapable, so ain’t happening. Section 4 requires Pence and the cabinet to say he’s incapable, and I also don’t see that happening.

    Maybe Pelosi is trolling Trump to make him think Pence and the cabinet are going to move against him, in which case bravo.

  243. 243.

    hueyplong

    October 8, 2020 at 2:03 pm

    @MattF: I had a pleasant daydream in which there was no announcement about the 25th scheduled for tomorrow and Pelosi said it in order to cause Trump to haul each and every cabinet member before him, one at a time, to be accused of mutiny by a spittle-launching, wheezing and coughing Trump

    An experience they’d later liken to having their faces eaten by an angry leopard.

  244. 244.

    Jeffro

    October 8, 2020 at 2:03 pm

    @James E Powell:we need to bring radical change to the press/media and more specifically to the cable shows that present horrible people as entertainment.

    In retrospect, we should have stopped ‘Crossfire’ dead in its tracks.

    Looking forward, every American household needs a copy of ‘Amusing Ourselves to Death‘

  245. 245.

    ...now I try to be amused

    October 8, 2020 at 2:04 pm

    May Godwin strike me dead, but Trump turning on Pompeo and Barr reminds me of Downfall when Hitler turned on Goering and Himmler after they were caught preparing for a post-Hitler future.

  246. 246.

    Jeffro

    October 8, 2020 at 2:06 pm

    @Mike in NC: Let’s take the money and vote against him anyway  (h/t LBJ, with a lot less profanity ;)

  247. 247.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    October 8, 2020 at 2:06 pm

    @trollhattan:

    There is an actual Frankenstein in the USofA, it’s in Misery.  I know because I lived 6 miles up the road from it for 22+ years.

    On the 25th anniversary of the film, the company as a publicity stunt had 25 people dressed up as the monster parachute into the softball field.

  248. 248.

    Ian

    October 8, 2020 at 2:06 pm

    @germy: The monster is supposed to be the cruel society that creates a being and leaves it to rot and decay like that, not the globs of flesh sown together.

  249. 249.

    Martin

    October 8, 2020 at 2:07 pm

    @Peale: Given that Obama is a time-traveller that has been to Mars, I don’t think we have a legal precedent on which time reference frame the statute of limitations is valid in.

    That said, College of the Siskiyous has a lovely campus. If I was going to build a time traveling machine, I don’t think it’d be my first choice, but it is a lovely choice.

  250. 250.

    charon

    October 8, 2020 at 2:08 pm

    @MattF:

    Here is a thread on T’s NPD situation:

     

    https://twitter.com/TheRealHoarse/status/1313513475491143681

  251. 251.

    Elizabelle

    October 8, 2020 at 2:09 pm

    Thinking about Trump whingeing about a virtual debate and the moderator cutting him off.

    Makes me think the Debates Commission brought up cutting off interrupters’ microphones as well for the next debates, after last night’s Penceapalooza of running all over moderator Susan Page (although less successfully over Kamala).

    Enough of the Debates Commission.  Back to the League of Women Voters.

  252. 252.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 8, 2020 at 2:09 pm

    @Ian: And Dr. Frankenstein himself. He creates a sensitive, thinking being and then rejects and abandons it just because he thinks it’s ugly. He’s a bad guy.

  253. 253.

    trollhattan

    October 8, 2020 at 2:12 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    The best part was when he seamlessly switched to Norwegian partway through. ;-)

    Mayor Pete’s perfected Midwest Nice to a higher level than Klobuchar, who keeps a verbal paring knife tucked in her belt and enjoys bringing it out.

  254. 254.

    mrmoshpotato

    October 8, 2020 at 2:12 pm

    @Scout211: Haha, Steve just sits there getting schooled by Mayor Pete.

  255. 255.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 8, 2020 at 2:12 pm

    @JPL:

    For years there has been much confusion on this blog (and elsewhere) regarding what the 25th Amendment can and cannot do in the ongoing situation of a deranged and possibly incompetent racist manbaby in the White House.

    The 25th Amendment was enacted to ensure an unbroken “chain of command” when the Presidency is vacant. It

    • Provides for succession of VPOTUS when POTUS has died, resigned, or been removed from office (Section 1);
    • Provides for filling the office of VPOTUS when it is vacant (Section 2);
    • Provides for VPOTUS to become “Acting President” with all the duties and powers of POTUS when POTUS acknowledges s/he is unable to do so, and for the process by which POTUS can resume those duties and powers (Section 3);
    • Provides for VPOTUS to become “Acting President” with all the duties and powers of POTUS when POTUS does NOT so acknowledge, and for the process by which POTUS can resume those duties and powers (Section 4).

    The 25th was neither intended nor drafted as a mechanism to remove a sitting President. If Section 4 is invoked to that end, POTUS may contest the removal of his “duties and powers” – and should s/he do so, s/he can only be denied by a relatively prompt vote of 2/3 of both Houses of Congress against. This threshold was deliberately set higher than the threshold for impeachment and removal to prevent its use in a “palace coup.”

    As for the Speaker: She has no role whatsoever re “invocation of the 25th Amendment”:

    Section 3 can only be invoked (and subsequently revoked) by POTUS declaring that s/he “is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his [sic] office”, and Section 4 requires VPOTUS and “and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide” to declare “that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office”.

    Only if POTUS, having been sidelined in favor of VPOTUS as Acting President per Section 4, chooses to contest this action, does the Speaker become involved – per Section 4, as one of 435 Representatives eligible to vote on whether POTUS resumes the powers and duties of the Presidency or VPOTUS as Acting POTUS continues to exercise them. She has no power to affect the outcome of such a vote beyond the persuasion of other Congresspersons inherent in the prestige of the office of the Speaker.

    Tl;dr version: This is political kabuki – the Speaker has no more say over invoking or upholding the 25th Amendment than any other Representative, and her opinion is just that, an opinion.

    (OK? Glad I could clear that up for yinz! :^D)

  256. 256.

    Elizabelle

    October 8, 2020 at 2:13 pm

    New thread up.  Open thread, although David Anderson informs that Elliott Broidy has now been indicted.

    @Matt McIrvin:  Have to read the original Frankenstein one of these days.  Got to be in the public domain on the internets.

    ====

    CNN reporting some Walter Reed staff (doctors and medical professionals) were asked to sign NDAs during November’s mystery visit.

  257. 257.

    Ken

    October 8, 2020 at 2:14 pm

    @charon: Here is a thread on T’s NPD situation:

    I blanked for a moment and couldn’t think what you meant.  The NDAs?  The NY AG?

    What percentage of the space of possible acronyms is occupied by Trump scandals?

  258. 258.

    Ken

    October 8, 2020 at 2:15 pm

    @Elizabelle: Gutenberg text of Frankenstein.  Also available in e-book formats.

  259. 259.

    trollhattan

    October 8, 2020 at 2:15 pm

    @Tony Jay:

    Just last night I heard an interview with Johnny Rotten (Lydon) from his LA home, extolling Trump while telling us Biden is rubbish and mandatory masking is oppression. You just never know who’s going to turn Tory on you.

  260. 260.

    Brachiator

    October 8, 2020 at 2:15 pm

    @Martin:

    To be fair, Queeg was considerably more rational in his obsession than Trump is. It was a particular single-mindedness that didn’t really make him non-functional in other areas. Trump is just a complete shitshow on everything.

    And one of the themes of the film is that Queeg might not have fallen apart had his officers done their proper duty and helped him.

    Trump would be a mess no matter what, but the country would have been better off if the GOP had done their duty to the country instead of acting as toadies and enablers.

  261. 261.

    sdhays

    October 8, 2020 at 2:16 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo: I assume Nancy will be talking about Dump needing to step back and let Dense take over while he’s clearly extra impaired. Since the media can’t be bothered to read the 25th Amendment, but finds it very exciting, it provides the context for discussing that the “President” really has no business Presidenting in his current condition (especially).

  262. 262.

    Kent

    October 8, 2020 at 2:18 pm

    @Ken:

    @MattF:  It can’t be sections 1 or 2.  Section 3 requires Trump to write a letter saying he’s incapable, so ain’t happening. Section 4 requires Pence and the cabinet to say he’s incapable, and I also don’t see that happening.

    Maybe Pelosi is trolling Trump to make him think Pence and the cabinet are going to move against him, in which case bravo.

    Pelosi is a masterful 3-dimensional chess playing troll.  She gets under Trump’s skin like no one else inside or outside of government.  And she does it with delightful precision and understatement.

    It is perfectly legitimate to explore the 25th Amendment given recent circumstances with Trump and the pandemic.  We only have what….26 days left until the election?   Every day he spends raging on and tilting at windmills instead of doing strategic campaigning is a big win.

  263. 263.

    Jeffro

    October 8, 2020 at 2:19 pm

    @MattF:

     

    @Ken: She’s just going to say that he’s nuts – whether due to steroids or something else – and that he owes it to the country to turn things over to Pence until he’s fully recovered from Covid-19.

  264. 264.

    Geminid

    October 8, 2020 at 2:19 pm

    A new Quinnipiac poll of Iowa, taken Oct. 1-5, shows Biden 50%, Trump 45%; Greenfield 50%, Ernst 45%.

  265. 265.

    Calouste

    October 8, 2020 at 2:19 pm

    @Ken: Yep, I can’t see what Pelosi can do regarding the 25th Amendment. At most there can be a vote in the House calling on Pence and the cabinet to invoke section 4, but that will be reasonable meaningless unless she has roped in a couple of GOP Senators as well, so there will also be a vote in the Senate. Although maybe with all the GOP Senators in isolation, there is a majority for that already.

  266. 266.

    mrmoshpotato

    October 8, 2020 at 2:21 pm

    @Mike in NC: I’ll take a $12 million check – and still vote for Biden.

  267. 267.

    James E Powell

    October 8, 2020 at 2:22 pm

    @Ohio Mom:

    Dylan didn’t sue. Rod Stewart’s people realized the lyrics were so close that they sent it to Dylan to see if he objected. They worked out a deal where Stewart kept the credit but they split the money 50/50. Very professional on both their parts.

  268. 268.

    Ken

    October 8, 2020 at 2:26 pm

    @Elizabelle: New thread up. Open thread, although David Anderson informs that Elliott Broidy has now been indicted.

    I see the front-pagers are playing with our heads again. The only thing I’m seeing is a Silverman post on the Michigan terrorists. Did Anderson have something up and take it back down?

  269. 269.

    Elizabelle

    October 8, 2020 at 2:28 pm

    @Ken:   Yup.  Stomped.

  270. 270.

    J R in WV

    October 8, 2020 at 2:28 pm

    @Kathleen:

    @Ohio Mom: I filled my absentee ballot out yesterday and dropped it off at BOE.

    Oh, Kool, who did you vote for????

    ……………….     ;~)

  271. 271.

    Elizabelle

    October 8, 2020 at 2:30 pm

    @Ken:   Thank you!  I need to read The Decameron, too.

    Much appreciated.

  272. 272.

    Suzy

    October 8, 2020 at 2:32 pm

    @Elizabelle: It will widen Biden’s lead in Michigan, watch for it.

  273. 273.

    mrmoshpotato

    October 8, 2020 at 2:34 pm

    @Kent: Kent, they can’t set up a 3-member remote conference.  It’s not enough people talking over one another to be, what’s the technical term?, oh right, “stupid as shit.”

    It must be at least 8 people even if 5 of those people are just going “Blah blah blah WRONG!” all the time in between bouts of screaming at the top of their lungs.

  274. 274.

    WaterGirl

    October 8, 2020 at 2:35 pm

    @Felanius Kootea:   @Scout211:

    That interview is a thing of beauty.  I have liked Pete from day 1, and I’m super impressed with both of these interviews.

  275. 275.

    WaterGirl

    October 8, 2020 at 2:37 pm

    @Felanius Kootea:  Yay!  If you add your voting report to the I Voted! thread (linked in the sidebar) you get a sticker.  :-)

  276. 276.

    James E Powell

    October 8, 2020 at 2:37 pm

    @trollhattan:

    There always was a white supremacist, fascist leaning element in the punk movement. See also, heavy metal.

  277. 277.

    Martin

    October 8, 2020 at 2:38 pm

    @charon: This exactly. This was really the origin of my proclamation years ago that Trump would be carried out of the WH.

    Narcissism is exhausting for the narcissist.  It’s this constant effort to keep the plates spinning regarding that projected image. For low-profile narcissists, they can always retreat into private life for a break, but the President has no private life. There is more scrutiny than they’ve ever had to endure, more questions, more details to maintain because the political press isn’t going to buy half-assed cover ups and explanations.

    Given that Trumps narcissism surrounds his belief that he’s a loser, the election poses a particular challenge for him to accept a loss. Unlike press coverage which he can just whisk away with deep state or fake news, the election is much more problematic. It  forces him to expend more and more energy to convince himself he’s not a loser, take more and more extreme positions regarding the election, exhausting the people around him who try to cover for him, until it reaches a point it can’t be maintained any more.

    At that point narcissists lose the fight to deny what they deep down believe they are (in Trump’s case, a loser). That’s a dangerous moment. The people that were enabling him get turned on and they abandon that effort, and the whole facade crumbles.

    A lot of suicides happen in that moment, and I wouldn’t rule it out here. But with him abandoned by everyone, he’ll probably just go mad king – ranting about conspiracies in open defiance of everything, including renewed calls to cancel the election. Biden should do everything in his power to make additional debates happen. Trump sees those moments to take control of the message, and he’s fucking out there right now. Give him the rope.

    We should be sad that someone with that kind of personality disorder isn’t getting treatment, but everyone around him has enabled this, and we can’t sacrifice the nation to the failure of getting behavioral health treatment for one person.

  278. 278.

    PST

    October 8, 2020 at 2:38 pm

    @Bruce K:

    The more I think about it, the more I think it’s proper to call Dr. Frankenstein’s creation “the creature”, not “the monster”.

    Also, it emphasizes that CREATure means a CREATed thing.

  279. 279.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    October 8, 2020 at 2:39 pm

    @Baud:

    It was in November 2019.

  280. 280.

    zhena gogolia

    October 8, 2020 at 2:39 pm

    @Scout211:

    That’s great because he does the rapid-fire blabbing that they love to do, but it’s all true!

  281. 281.

    WaterGirl

    October 8, 2020 at 2:40 pm

    @Kent:  I was ranting about the same thing in one of the debate threads last night.  Only you said it better.

    Their excuses don’t hold water for even a minute, and that’s if you’re distract4ed.  If you are really listening, they aren’t believable for even a nanosecond.

  282. 282.

    Nora Lenderbee

    October 8, 2020 at 2:40 pm

    William Safire wrote a novel that referred to the 25th amendment, about  President who was blinded in an assassination attempt and refused to step down. Full Disclosure, I think.

  283. 283.

    zhena gogolia

    October 8, 2020 at 2:40 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    She’s usually excellent.

    ETA: I think she’s the one in the immortal “Sez who?” clip with Michael Cohen.

    ETA: Yes, it’s her.

  284. 284.

    N M

    October 8, 2020 at 2:40 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    I’d latch onto this bit:

    …and Section 4 requires VPOTUS and “and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide” to declare “that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office”.

    Nancy could just troll Trump a bit further by introducing legislation to establish such an “other body.”

    ETA: not that I think such legislation would make it through the Senate, much less with veto-proof majorities in Congress, but as theater it will give the media something to go on for at least a day or two.

  285. 285.

    WaterGirl

    October 8, 2020 at 2:43 pm

    @Ken: I think that Pelosi plans to describe the situation and make it really clear that the cowardly Republicans who refused to convict him re: impeachment still aren’t willing to do their patriotic duty and stand up to him now when he clearly is not fit for office.

    The Rs who could do something won’t feel shame, but her intended audience will surely be the voters not the politicians.

  286. 286.

    RobertB

    October 8, 2020 at 2:44 pm

    @Ohio Mom: Franklin Co. BOE was 0-for-4 at my house.  “Somehow” they screwed up and sent the wrong ballots to lots of people besides me.  They’re supposed to resend our ballots within 7-10 days, but I’m not optimistic.

  287. 287.

    Suzy

    October 8, 2020 at 2:45 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: We’re all thinking that the drugs are making him losing his mind, but we can’t discard another factor: he is a malignant narcissist who’s seeing the walls closing on him, and he is not able to cope. Many psychiatrists have told us for years that this was going to happen.

  288. 288.

    WaterGirl

    October 8, 2020 at 2:48 pm

    @trollhattan: I will disagree slightly.  I think Pete Buttigieg IS midwestern nice, and Amy Klobuchar tries to ACT midwestern nice.

    But bless her for her rant about RBG on the senate floor, and I will always be grateful that she and Claire M. came out in support of Obama very early in 2007 when that was still a risky thing to do b/c of the Clintons.

  289. 289.

    Bruce K

    October 8, 2020 at 2:49 pm

    Regarding Pelosi and the 25th, she undoubtedly knows that she doesn’t have any actual power as Speaker of the House to invoke any part of the 25th, but she can certainly make the case that the President of the United States is hors de combat and non compos mentis and the VP and Cabinet have a moral duty to take action under Section 4, and say “it’s up to you to do the right thing, gentlemen”. (Either that, or she may publicly plead for Trump to invoke Section Three, which would amount to the same thing.)

    If she does that, I’ll lay even odds that Trump demands Barr arrest Pelosi immediately, and then goes straight round the bend (pun intentional), making Pelosi’s case for her. I’d give far less than fifty/fifty odds that Pence and the Cabinet would invoke Section Four, but that puts them between the devil and the deep blue see.

  290. 290.

    ET

    October 8, 2020 at 2:50 pm

    Great cover on Time Magazine. The White House as COVID factory.

  291. 291.

    Sm*t Cl*de

    October 8, 2020 at 2:52 pm

    @PPCLI:

    I was wondering what Pence’s responsibility-avoiding continuing emphasis on “Trusting the American people to protect themselves” reminded me of.

    Lots of talk about “the sacrifices made by the American people”, too. Sounds like Team Trump are working up to the Vietnam argument that “to change course now would be disrespectful to all those who have already died”.

  292. 292.

    ...now I try to be amused

    October 8, 2020 at 2:57 pm

    @ET:

    Great cover on Time Magazine. The White House as COVID factory.

    I don’t remember where I saw it, but I like the picture of Trump wearing a crown of coronavirus. Nice visual wordplay there.

  293. 293.

    Ken

    October 8, 2020 at 2:59 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: they can’t set up a 3-member remote conference.  It must be at least 8 people even if 5 of those people are just going “Blah blah blah WRONG!” all the time

    I could get behind a plan to have Biden, Trump, moderator, and town hall attendee, then fill the other four slots with puppies and kittens.

  294. 294.

    WaterGirl

    October 8, 2020 at 3:09 pm

    @Bruce K: That’s what I was trying to say, only you said it better.

  295. 295.

    WaterGirl

    October 8, 2020 at 3:11 pm

    Pence can’t admit that he’s COVID positive, too – and after last night I feel certain that he is  – because that would open the door to Nancy Pelosi possibly being president.

    If I’m right, someone had better spill the beans on Pence.  By which I mean leak the information.

  296. 296.

    cwmoss

    October 8, 2020 at 3:18 pm

    @Kent: um, sitting in Portland at this very moment. My office downtown  is two blocks from the two blocks where the protests have been concentrated since late May.  I don’t think you are well informed about Portland at all.

  297. 297.

    Peale

    October 8, 2020 at 3:20 pm

    @Ken: Fat Bears. People like Fat Bears.

  298. 298.

    Geminid

    October 8, 2020 at 3:32 pm

    @Peale: And lean bears like people.

  299. 299.

    Ruckus

    October 8, 2020 at 3:53 pm

    @artem1s:

    I used to know a fella in northeast OH who would go on machine gun shoots and I understand that 50-100 people would show up, with no public notice that this existed at all. I don’t know if he was in any organization of any kind but it always struck me as weird.

  300. 300.

    Ruckus

    October 8, 2020 at 4:06 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Moms and dads, don’t let your kids do drugs. And kids, make sure your parents aren’t talking out their asses.

  301. 301.

    KenK

    October 8, 2020 at 4:08 pm

    @germy: Fox News’ Harlan Hill just called Kamala Harris an “insufferable lying bitch.”

    He’s gone.

    https://twitter.com/kathrynw5/status/1314279266394103809?s=20

  302. 302.

    Ruckus

    October 8, 2020 at 4:08 pm

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Not just different drugs, a lot of different drugs, all at the same time.

  303. 303.

    Jinchi

    October 8, 2020 at 4:09 pm

    @Nora Lenderbee: .. about a President who was blinded in an assassination attempt and refused to step down

    Why would a president have to step down because he was blind?

  304. 304.

    Ruckus

    October 8, 2020 at 4:18 pm

    @Ian:

    His age is not an issue for him, it’s his narcissism that distorts everything he sees. Everything about him is completely distorted into what makes him better, stronger, smarter, etc. It has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with reality.

  305. 305.

    Nora Lenderbee

    October 8, 2020 at 4:29 pm

    @Jinchi: I don’t remember exactly–I read the book a long time ago. But IIRC,  the President, being newly blinded, had not learned to compensate and therefore could be deceived in ways that wouldn’t work with either a sighted person or one blind from a young age.

  306. 306.

    ...now I try to be amused

    October 8, 2020 at 4:37 pm

    @Jinchi:

    Why would a president have to step down because he was blind?

    For what it’s worth, in the Roman/Byzantine Empire a physically imperfect man couldn’t be Emperor. Some Byzantine emperors were blinded after they were deposed so they couldn’t try to make a comeback. Of course castration disqualified a man from being Emperor too.

  307. 307.

    cope

    October 8, 2020 at 4:41 pm

    @Jeffro: I have been intending to read this book for years.  Your mention of it prompted me to put a hold on it at our library.  It’s in the pipeline, thanks.  It says it’s an updated version from 2006 so that would be after Postman died.  It’s a 20th anniversary edition.

  308. 308.

    Curious

    October 8, 2020 at 6:29 pm

    @JPL: Be careful what you wish for. Trump is a lunatic but Pense did a fine job last night at the debate. I could see him swinging moderates to the right if Trump were out of the picture.

  309. 309.

    Kathleen

    October 8, 2020 at 6:58 pm

    @J R in WV: “I just couldn’t decide so I closed my eyes and pointed my finger on the ballot. The closest to my finger got my vote. Both parties are the same.”

    An excerpt from my newly published “Heartland Wisdom – Deep Thoughts From Ohio Voters”,

  310. 310.

    Art

    October 8, 2020 at 9:04 pm

    And we move from denial to anger.

    Bargaining might be interesting. In his zero-sum mindset is he willing to lose? Or will it be just making a few concessions. Perhaps, if Russia makes reelection happen he promises they get Alaska back. As always, details to be worked out later.

    Depression, with the possibility of thermonuclear national suicide, worries me. For a guy with tendencies to be over-the-top it would be the the largest and boldest of gestural superlatives possible … ever.

    Getting past that we might see trump taking up knitting and gardening.

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